West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Don Rizzle on May 07, 2006, 06:57:21 AM
-
your thoughts>?
-
It's a case by case basis.
Allah says in the Qu'ran (something to the effect-) that if you die in the path of Allah (fighting against an oppressor/oppression) then your sins are forgiven and you are elevated in the hereafter.
This is what the religion says. And ultimately Allah is the judge in all affairs and he will give the final desicion as to who and what is or isn't justified.
-
so u think attacking iraqi civillians, policemen and soldiers is wrong?
-
so u think attacking iraqi civillians, policemen and soldiers is wrong?
It depends on the definition of an oppressor. Some people would define a police officer as an oppressor.
For example, look at the Black Panther Party (they weren't an Islamic organization, but I'm just using an example people are more familiar with) in the 60's in America, they definitely defined the government as their oppressor, and they defined police officers as part of that oppression. They also defined black cops as Uncle Toms and hypocrites, thus making them partners with the oppressor.
But ultimately it comes down to Allah's judgement. How he judges the situation and how he judges your heart and your intentions. Like I said, Allah is the ultimate judge, he is the furqan (decider) and he is best to judge.
-
so u think attacking iraqi civillians, policemen and soldiers is wrong?
It depends on the definition of an oppressor. Some people would define a police officer as an oppressor.
For example, look at the Black Panther Party in the 60's in America, they definitely defined the government as their oppressor, and they defined police officers as part of that oppression. They also defined black cops as Uncle Toms and hypocrites, thus making them partners with the oppressor.
But ultimately it comes down to Allah's judgement. How he judges the situation and how he judges your heart and your intentions. Like I said, Allah is the ultimate judge, he is the furqan (decider) and he is best to judge.
even so msulims commit suicide bombings in Iraq every day, only muslims themselves can bring an end to this.....even if america left I can't see the suicide bombings coming to an end
-
even so msulims commit suicide bombings in Iraq every day, only muslims themselves can bring an end to this.....even if america left I can't see the suicide bombings coming to an end
There weren't suicide bombings in Iraq before the invasion.
-
Hypothetically, if America left today, and they left with the current government in power, then the suicide bombings would continue because the current government was established by the US, and would probably be viewed in the same way that the Black Panther Party viewed black cops; as hypocrites and Uncle Toms.
Understand my example?
-
they were oppressed in the first place. ofcourse now they are in extreme oppression, which we all hope will subside, to a lesser extent than at status quo. which is the 'goal' of the invasion, the only people that are stopping that now are the extremists.
that said, the suicide bombings, they achieve nothing. the best thing the extreme muslims could do is accept defeat, atleast for now they should realise the U.S forces are much too powerful for them. there is nothing they can do right now, but ride i out. they are only harming themselves and their people by fucking around.
-
Hypothetically, if America left today, and they left with the current government in power, then the suicide bombings would continue because the current government was established by the US, and would probably be viewed in the same way that the Black Panther Party viewed black cops; as hypocrites and Uncle Toms.
Understand my example?
I can see where your coming from but i whole heartedly disagree, there is a huge difference to their governement now than that of the interim governement, Iraqis themselves have approved the constitution and they have elected their mps' into parliament, no one was appointed by the US.
If the governement fell, the power struggle increase tenfold.....
-
there are more than one face of suicide bombing in iraq
1)sunnis attacking shias--------mostly al qeada and foriegn arabs
2)shia retaliting
3)sunna insurgency-----attacking americans
on all of them only the 3rd can be justified. the rule of jihad is u can't hurt civilians ,women ,childern and argricluture of hte enemy
-
the rule of jihad is u can't hurt civilians ,women ,childern and argricluture of hte enemy
Someone should inform the guys from the P.A who practice Jihad I guess.
-
most isrealis join the army .so most civilians are just dorment combatents
-
i'm skeptical of suicide bombings because it implies some sort of backdoor into "heaven". dying on a battlefield is different, you don't know your fate on the battlefield. you have a chance of walking away. everything that happens, whether you are safe and protected or not is by god's will. suicide bombers make that decision on their own.
within the muslim world i don't see much debate on the matter. for example, news reports covering these bombers normally report the number dead and also the number martyred. that may be a political thing...
I can see where your coming from but i whole heartedly disagree, there is a huge difference to their governement now than that of the interim governement, Iraqis themselves have approved the constitution and they have elected their mps' into parliament, no one was appointed by the US.
If the governement fell, the power struggle increase tenfold.....
the current iraqi government is unacceptable. it does not challenge the u.s. presence or u.s. and western influences in iraq. it does not challenge these foreign corporations that are handling reconstruction, and managing and controlling much of the oil industry. it does not challenge the permanent u.s. bases in iraq.
the average iraqi on the street wants peace and stability above all else. that is what people everywhere across the globe want. but there is a faction in iraq that would rather see the country hit rock bottom and strong leadership arise that could ultimately evict the u.s. presence and then start over. either way iraq needs a government that is strong enough to either evict the u.s. presence or eliminate the insurgency.
-
there is nothing they can do right now, but ride i out. they are only harming themselves and their people by fucking around.
-
most isrealis join the army .so most civilians are just dorment combatents
Thanks for clearing that out. I see it now, it's ok to kill Israelis because of that.
-
^ nice, this now has officially become a :catfight: *awaits jamal's reply*
-
I am utterly repulsed that suicide bombers are seen as the evil whilst an army blowing the shit out of everything usuing smart bombs which even by their own figures make the term seem ironic, using a shake n bake policy in Fallujah. Israelis responding to sightings of a suspected "terrorist" and proceeding to annhilate the whole apartment block killing dozens of people of people this is only the tip of the icebeg this sick mass murder of people is somehow justified. Whilst the actions of a suicide bomber are the true evil, a suicide bomber is really someone that has nothing left to live for, the actions of those opporessors have made them so full of rage and hate and they see the outside world gives less then a shit about their suffering also they decide the only thing left to do is martyr themselves. However the truth is also that if the muslims were given the access to arsenal of weapons like the western world's armies had then there would be little need for them.
-
^ nice, this now has officially become a :catfight: *awaits jamal's reply*
I think this thing has reached such a level of understanding each of us knowes exactly what the other person is going to say. So there's little need for that really.
-
Suicide bombing is NEVER justified.. It is a disgusting greedy way of leaving the world. Anybody who suicide bombs for WHATEVER the reason might be is a selfish, disgusting, piece of shit, asshole, pathetic, piece of a poor excuse for a human. Gross man, straping a bomb on yourself and then entering a public place with innocent people all around that dont deserve to die, people that have families to take care of, children to raise.. ALL BLOWN THE FUCK UP AND DEAD just because of religious beliefs. Oh and wait, life gets better- after that they believe that about 60 virgins will await them at the golden gates and their sins will be forgiven aslong as they do it for a nobel religious cause. DISGUSTING FUCKEN ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just thinking about this topic makes me angry as fuck. :rant: :scarface: :monkey_piss:
-
Gross man, straping a bomb on yourself and then entering a public place with innocent people all around that dont deserve to die, people that have families to take care of, children to raise.. ALL BLOWN THE FUCK UP AND DEAD just because of religious beliefs.
look, i have questions about the suicide aspects. the theological basis is something i'm unsure of.
this isn't about religious beliefs, it's about fighting injustice and oppressions. the citizens of a state are equally guilty of the crimes of that state in that they support the state.
you have the israeli government building museums on holy cemetaries, bulldozing homes, evicting people from their homes, attacking neighborhoods...until the israeli people themselves are standing infront of the tanks and protesting their governments...they are equally guilty.
people love to cite israel is such a great example of democracy. if israel is a democracy, then the policies of the state are the policies of the people, and the people are equally guilty. israel brings harm upon it's citizens and endangers it's citizens as long is it illegally occupies territories, evicts people from their homes...etc.
and the u.s. is committing similar crimes in iraq.
-
Start an IRA thread too about bombing civilians ;D
Somalia, Ireland, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Eritrea many more...you're talking about sucker free countries ;) do what you gotta do.
IRA
(http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1427/ira3ej.jpg)
(http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/posters/ira/poster09r.jpg)
(http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00210/ira_belfast_210156c.jpg)
-
the rule of jihad is u can't hurt civilians ,women ,childern and argricluture of hte enemy
-
Gross man, straping a bomb on yourself and then entering a public place with innocent people all around that dont deserve to die, people that have families to take care of, children to raise.. ALL BLOWN THE FUCK UP AND DEAD just because of religious beliefs.
look, i have questions about the suicide aspects. the theological basis is something i'm unsure of.
this isn't about religious beliefs, it's about fighting injustice and oppressions. the citizens of a state are equally guilty of the crimes of that state in that they support the state.
you have the israeli government building museums on holy cemetaries, bulldozing homes, evicting people from their homes, attacking neighborhoods...until the israeli people themselves are standing infront of the tanks and protesting their governments...they are equally guilty.
Honestly, there are many people in both religions that are innocent and dont deserve what this little way is creating. BUT suicide bombing is never an excuse for ANYTHING that you are fighting for.. like I said, killing a bunch of innocent people is NEVER the answer... it only creates more hate. Then again, so do a lot of things.
people love to cite israel is such a great example of democracy. if israel is a democracy, then the policies of the state are the policies of the people, and the people are equally guilty. israel brings harm upon it's citizens and endangers it's citizens as long is it illegally occupies territories, evicts people from their homes...etc.
and the u.s. is committing similar crimes in iraq.
-
the rule of jihad is u can't hurt civilians ,women ,childern and argricluture of hte enemy
recently iraqi insurgents have been attacking the water supply, this has outraged many iraqi civillians.
-
the rule of jihad is u can't hurt civilians ,women ,childern and argricluture of hte enemy
Someone should inform the guys from the P.A who practice Jihad I guess.
israel has no legitimate basis to complain. israel's government evicts people from their homes and destroys people's farmlands. rocket attacks into residential neighborhoods. the israeli government is a terrorist organization.
until israelis hit the streets protesting their government en masse. until israelis refuse to settle and live in [stolen] occupied lands, the israeli people cannot complain. the israeli public has been more than complicit in the crimes of their government.