West Coast Connection Forum

Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 08:49:32 PM

Title: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 08:49:32 PM
'Iraqis Who Sweated Out Hussein Are Leaving Under Bush'

By Sherwood Ross


It’s not easy to create a situation where life is better under a dictatorship than in a democracy, but George Bush has succeeded in achieving the impossible by invading Iraq.

At least 40,000 Iraqis have been killed in the past three years, with scores more murdered every day. Hospitals overflow with the wounded. Conditions are so bad, an estimated 1-million Iraqis have fled their homes for sanctuary in Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Iraqis, particularly middle-class families, who survived Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship, are leaving en masse. Even Mr. Bush admits things are “terrible” in Baghdad.

According to Washington reporter Bill Blum, author of “Rogue State,”(Common Courage Press) “thousands of Iraqis have lost an arm or a leg, frequently from unexploded U.S. cluster bombs” and the air has been fouled by depleted uranium from U.S. shells, infecting the water, soil, and human genes, causing deformed births.

Iraqi’s chances of ending up in jail may be greater under Bush. Fifty thousand Iraqis have been imprisoned since he invaded, yet “only a very tiny portion of them have been convicted of any crime,” Blum writes. One Bush legacy will be his practice of holding men without charges, lawyers, or trials.

American-backed militias kill, kidnap and torture people at random. According to The New York Times (May 22), “the corruption in Basra had gotten so bad that the 135-member internal affairs unit, set up to police the police, was operating as a ring of extortionists, kidnappers and killers, American and Iraqi officials said.”

Not only do U.S. troops stand accused of atrocities against civilians such as the Marines’ rampage at Haditha last November 19th, but the Pentagon’s own study admitted its Special Operations interrogators torture.

Pentagon “outsourcing” of prisoner “care” also results in abuse. Larry Cox, executive director of Amnesty International USA, complained some military contractors in Iraq “stand accused of engaging in or supporting human rights violations such as sexual abuse and torture” and have fired at civilians “with devastating consequences.”

Even Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki June 1 denounced the U.S. military for attacks on civilians that have become a “daily phenomenon”. Underscore the word daily.

To add to their misery, every second Iraqi worker is unemployed, prices have soared and annual median incomes quickly tumbled after the invasion from $255 in 2003 to about $144 in 2004. Better off under Bush?

Writing in the June 15, Christian Science Monitor, reporter Peter Grier cites critics who point out “basic services have yet to be restored three years after the US invasion. Oil and electricity production have yet to return to prewar levels.” In fact, Iraq’s oil exports have plummeted in recent months and motorists wait for hours to buy gas. Some 60 percent of clean water produced in Iraq is lost to leakage and contamination, Grier found.

Joe Carr of the Christian Peacemakers Team in Baghdad, (cited by Noam Chomsky in his essay “War Crimes in Iraq,”) says the U.S. in the city of Fallujah “has leveled entire neighborhoods, and about every third building is destroyed or damaged.” Fierce, destructive firefights have raged in other cities as well.

Violence is so commonplace 20 percent of U.S. funds marked for reconstruction go instead to pay security guards. Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, wrote half of the $22-billion America earmarked to develop Iraq’s economy has been wasted.

Thousands of Iraqis are dying of their wounds, lack of hospital care, or sickness caused by malnutrition. Jean Ziegler, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, accused Anglo-American forces of “breaching international law by depriving civilians of food and water in besieged cities as they try to flush out militants.” That’s a violation of the Geneva Convention.

“Iraq has become the most dangerous place on earth,” claims reporter Blum. “Civil war, death squads, kidnapping, car bombs, rape, each and every day.” As of September 1, even the Pentagon is admitting Iraq is in a state of chaos.

Is Iraq better off under George Bush than Saddam Hussein? Only the people of Iraq are entitled to answer that question. Given the appalling decline in their living standards, the death toll, the bombings, killings, abductions, crime, torture, civil war, the homes and businesses destroyed, the lack of basic utilities, generalized suffering, and the feeling no one is safe on the streets or in the mosques, Iraqis who sweated out Hussein’s rule are bailing out. They are voting with their feet. Evidently, George Bush has achieved the impossible. His war based on a lie has turned Iraq into a living hell.


http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0609/S00054.htm
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 08:57:45 PM
Dumbest Thread Ever!  Do you know what Saddam did to people?  I have read a 400page book on the scumbag, you want me to explain some of the stuff he did to people? Its ok to hate Bush, but to compare him to Saddam, is A JOKE
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 09:45:43 PM
This isn't a question of whether if Bush is better than Saddam, of course thats a ridiculous comparison. The question the article puts forward is life better for the Iraqi people now that he is gone? 
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 09:52:48 PM
I am sorry but,

-Testing out your nuclear weapons on your own people
-Torturing parents to death in front of their kids and vice verse
-locked infants in boxes with meat eating animals so they are eaten alive
-numerous torture chambers, where the brutality is unimagineable
-public executions all the time
-placing live humans in lifesize meat grinders, grinding them up to pieces like they are FUCKIN DOJA or something


Please dont compare Bush to Saddam again on any level
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 09:53:57 PM
Lol you EDITED the fuck out of your 2nd post, lol.  way to switch things up
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 09:55:14 PM
And still even with that edited message, my gross post shows the answer.  Read what he did to people, no way life was better under him
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 09:58:47 PM
 :D

So people in Iraq must be livin it up now this vile oppressor is gone! Alot of jobs and free education in Iraq now isn't there? Great now he's gone Iraqi people no longer have to live in fear!
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: J Bananas on September 04, 2006, 10:01:52 PM
the man got animals to eat babies alive inside a box. that makes me wanna throw up for real. of course life is better with george bush, once America cleans that shithole up over there they might be fortunate to experience a little western style prosperity. iraqis need to stop bullshittin just cuz theyre ashamed of their inability to take care of their civilization  :'(
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 10:04:08 PM
Lol you EDITED the fuck out of your 2nd post, lol.  way to switch things up




dude I switched one tiny thing and you know it.  instead of saying meat scavengers I changed it to meat eating animals.  You SWITCHED your entire 2nd post and YOU KNOW IT
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 10:10:45 PM
Lol you EDITED the fuck out of your 2nd post, lol.  way to switch things up




dude I switched one tiny thing and you know it.  instead of saying meat scavengers I changed it to meat eating animals.  You SWITCHED your entire 2nd post and YOU KNOW IT



it says the same shit, just re-phrased, relax.
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 10:12:40 PM
Lol you EDITED the fuck out of your 2nd post, lol.  way to switch things up




dude I switched one tiny thing and you know it.  instead of saying meat scavengers I changed it to meat eating animals.  You SWITCHED your entire 2nd post and YOU KNOW IT



it says the same shit, just re-phrased, relax.

alright sorry man, I just get heated regarding Saddam, he was a evil fucking man
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 10:13:49 PM
once America cleans that shithole up over there they might be fortunate to experience a little western style prosperity.


well thats the idea. I just think they went about it all wrong at the start, now theres this spiralling tornado of violent shit.
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: J Bananas on September 04, 2006, 10:17:01 PM
it's alright chill baby the business just takes time, you can't make an omelette without breakin some eggs, it's gonna take a few years to get some real solidarity/American retail staples implanted in their society, it's all in motion though as we speak
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: AndrE16686 on September 04, 2006, 10:19:42 PM
 ;D

the optimism is reassuring.
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on September 04, 2006, 10:46:58 PM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 10:50:56 PM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

couldnt be more wrong
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: J Bananas on September 04, 2006, 10:57:27 PM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

Steve Irwin told a lie once, you know what happened to him


https://www.youtube.com/v/ju2ZyvEzE7c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju2ZyvEzE7c)
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 04, 2006, 10:58:24 PM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

Steve Irwin told a lie once, you know what happened to him


https://www.youtube.com/v/ju2ZyvEzE7c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju2ZyvEzE7c)

that was low doggie
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: J Bananas on September 04, 2006, 11:05:46 PM
i know, cause i really did like the guy as an entertainer and he had a family but it was still laughs. check out this insanely hardcore blood gangsta video to take your mind off the pain

https://www.youtube.com/v/KRZYxp9V6rA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRZYxp9V6rA)
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on September 04, 2006, 11:18:28 PM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

couldnt be more wrong

were thousands of iraqis dying and half the country in stages of rebellion and/or secretarian attacks and terrorism in 2003 before the war started?

no

conclusion, shut the fuck up
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: J Bananas on September 05, 2006, 10:00:05 AM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

couldnt be more wrong

were thousands of iraqis dying and half the country in stages of rebellion and/or secretarian attacks and terrorism in 2003 before the war started?

no

conclusion, shut the fuck up

actually they were, conclusion, muslims are sore losers in the game of life. just ease back and let us handle things now, we wont think any leass of your people
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: virtuoso on September 05, 2006, 10:25:48 AM
Testing out your nuclear weapons on your own people
-Torturing parents to death in front of their kids and vice verse
-locked infants in boxes with meat eating animals so they are eaten alive
-numerous torture chambers, where the brutality is unimagineable
-public executions all the time
-placing live humans in lifesize meat grinders, grinding them up to pieces like they are FUCKIN DOJA or something

He never tested out nuclear weapons on his own people, they were chemical weapons which were supplied by the rumsfeld administration. The americans supplied him with all of these wonderful chemical weapons to go to war with iran please.
John Yoo one of Bush's closest legal aides has stated that george bush can allow the torture of little children in front of their parents, which can include the crushing of their testicles.
Drilled detainees kneecaps, punishment shootings, not my words, just 2 of the many findings that the armies own report on u.s torture in iraq uncovered
Torture chambers.....CIA interrogators torturing someone so badly that they are broken mentally and physically lying in their own faeces, human beings put in open cages with mosquitos feasting on their flesh die and night.
Alberto Gonzalaez the u.s attorney general telling congress that torture is acceptable as long as the intention was not to kill the individual but if an individual died as a result of the torture well too bad.
Brazen and blatant disregard of these peoples human lives, charred bodies being dropped onto the streets after being taken in for "interrogation"
Public executions and massacres, (soldiers being very trigger happy, when they hear a shot have been known to mow down a crowd of people the unarmed and innocent
Over 150.000 iraqis killed as as result of the illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign nations land, ,civil war, secterarian hatred brought to the boil.
An entire nation contaminated with the effects of depleted uranium, do you even realise the effects of depleted uranium? its killing and disabling thousands of american soldiers, it causes birth defects, children instantly born with cancer, a ridiculously huge upsurge in premature babies

Now either you don't actually care about the true realities of this in which case you will ignore all I have said and respond with childish barbs again or you will realise that iraq is hell on earth.
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 05, 2006, 11:18:49 AM
Iraq is still extremely fucked up now I agree however

Life under Saddam was worse.  And anyone that disagrees is a IDIOT **cough the fake gangsta w/ eazy in his sig cough**
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: Primo on September 05, 2006, 04:03:13 PM
Life was easy under 2003 Saddam than under a war zone 2006 FACT i don't care what anyone says.
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: DipsetGeneral on September 05, 2006, 05:33:52 PM
Life was easy under 2003 Saddam than under a war zone 2006 FACT i don't care what anyone says.

WRONG! You must not know what Saddam did to people.  LOL at comparing Bush and Saddam, someone lock this thread, fuckin joke
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on September 05, 2006, 11:07:04 PM
Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

couldnt be more wrong

were thousands of iraqis dying and half the country in stages of rebellion and/or secretarian attacks and terrorism in 2003 before the war started?

no

conclusion, shut the fuck up

actually they were, conclusion, muslims are sore losers in the game of life. just ease back and let us handle things now, we wont think any leass of your people

yo do you argue against people just for the sake of it? can u please provide proof that "thousands of iraqis were dying and half the country was in stages of rebellion and/or secretarian attacks and terrorism in 2003 before the war started?"
Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on September 05, 2006, 11:17:48 PM
Iraq is still extremely fucked up now I agree however

Life under Saddam was worse.  And anyone that disagrees is a IDIOT **cough the fake gangsta w/ eazy in his sig cough**

stop coughin and start learning english u goof

non comprehending ass idiot

Life under saddam in 2003 before the war was better for the average iraqi citizen than it is now

^ that is the statement i made

you some how got from that statement a personal comparison of Bush vs Saddam.

Do you even remember 2003? How old were you then? Were you even watching news?

Saddams weapons were obselete. His army was a joke. A decade of sanctions decayed Iraq. 10 years of airstrikes and no fly zone enforcements in the North and South basically ensured an autonomous Kurdish state in the North with its own functioning govt apparatus and a fledging democracy. The South was left alone, allowing the Shia clerics to re establish their foothold politically after being purged, exiled and massacred by Saddams troops. Do you think Muqtada al Sadr appeared out of nowhere? Do you know who Muqtada al Sadr is?

Those were the only two groups fucked hard by Saddam, and that stopped.

You dont think we know Saddam is a bad man and tortured people you fuckin ape? Welcome to 1983. The same year Rummy shook hands with him. What difference does it make that Iraqis were gettin fed through meat shredders feet first in 1995 and gettin beheaded and tortured and dumped in the Tigris in 2006?

Do you know what Iraqs literacy rate used to be? Do you have any idea of the infrastructure and civil society it used to have? Do you think Zarqawis bitch ass could pop his head up in saddams time?

im not defendin saddam, fuck saddam. but fuck dumb idiots like you who cant comprehend simple ideas.

now fuck off

ps: you dont know me, so fall back on the fake tip. where are you from? who the fuck are u?
pps: eazy in my avatar > that garbage in ya sig

Title: Re: Life in Iraq better under Saddam's dictatorship than Bush's democracy?
Post by: The Kryptonian on September 06, 2006, 02:21:53 PM
Sadaam was a Monster. But he did keep alot if not all of this sectarian stuff in check. it was a case of who is the baddest bully in the room, it was Sadaam. He took a page out of Hitlers book and took over his own party through pure manipulation and murder.
that said he was a monster that we were cool with. for a time. but Sadaam was a checkmate for all of this stuff. he knew how to keep the religious zealots in line. he had no conscience whatsoever.

now we have full scale war going on there. some people are talking about stringing the country into 3 sectarian parts. all of the people that are from that region say that WILL NOT work. eventually some one will pull a gat and say "F that i want more".

to be honest it is not a easy to fix situation now. if the U.S. abruptly pulls out it WILL BE like Vietnam, many will be murdered by the side that takes over. if we stay doing exactly what we are doing now we are in for a HELL of a ride.