West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: King Tech Quadafi on December 04, 2006, 01:09:18 PM
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as much as i opposed the war
as much as a i detest the presence of american troops in iraq
fuck, right now theyre the only ones preventing hell from breaking loose in iraq
the question is...will the americans actually solve the problems there, or just remain around tryin to prevent things from gettin out of hand
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The US has fucked up so bad that pulling the troops will just make this painfully obvious, so as long as Bush is in power (777 days) there will never be a pull of troops from Iraq. If all the troops were to come home tomorrow I wouldn't have a problem with it.
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is it really up to Americans to solve their problems
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is it really up to Americans to solve their problems
No, which is why they had no reason to go there in the first place.
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no we had to liberate them...and some of their oil
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just bring the troops home. were gonna have to do it sooner or later, so might as well just let them duke it out with each other if its gotta happen. anyone who says the american troops are gonna solve the problem over there is neither being realistic or conscious of the state of relations in the middle east.
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america cant leave thats the thing
shouldve listen to house negro Powell
if u break something ure gonna have to fix it
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Arabs are so savage and violent. Here they have the chance to build the first peaceful, modern democratic state in the Middle East. But they would rather go around gunning down anyone who is of a different religious sect instead.
And they wonder why their countries are so fucking primitive.
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The civil war was instigated by the good ol coalition because that is the perfect means of divide and rule they then pose as the saviours, as the people who need to stay to keep the sides apart. Meanwhile they keep exactly the same status quo in play as was witnessed under saddam hussein and plan to "partition" Iraq but it's all for the good of the people nothing to do with weakening the state. Lol these people have some nerve I will give them that very good at deceiving. The worse the situation becomes the better it is for the pentagon because it has made no secret of the fact that it wants to stimulate real terror http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/P2OG.pdf that is from the asian times in which the writer discusses P2OG a recently declassified document which discusses the need to stimulate real terror.
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Only if CWalker's dad would've pulled out in time...
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aghahaha
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phased withdrawl.
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as much as i opposed the war
as much as a i detest the presence of american troops in iraq
fuck, right now theyre the only ones preventing hell from breaking loose in iraq
the question is...will the americans actually solve the problems there, or just remain around tryin to prevent things from gettin out of hand
they have to stay there till the problems r solved or it will show the rest of the world and the american people that we went there to gather oil, since NO WMD were found
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Only if CWalker's dad would've pulled out in time...
CWalker's dad was Yakub. That is why I will have to kill him.
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Only if CWalker's dad would've pulled out in time...
+1
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Props to Virtuoso, he's the only one that got any of this right.
The so-called civil war thing is just a trick to justify America's occupation of the region, so they can take up the convenient role of peacemakes and blame casaulties on sectarian violence. This was planned way in advance, please believe it!
Best believe it that the US is behind the civil war in Iraq, and a great number of those bombs that went off that began the so-called civil war were covert operations planned by the US long before the invasion even took place.
The true architects of this war decided years in advance what the debate would be in Iraq. They wanted the debate to be over two things...
1. Troop levels- Whether or not Bush put enough troops in Iraq
2. Civil War- Why Bush isn't labelling it a civil war in Iraq
...the trick is, that either way you are being diverted from the truth. Because honestly, it doesn't matter at all if Bush labels it a civil war, because the bottom line is that another Arab state is being weekened, and Isreal and America are strengthening their foothold in the region.
Hypothetically if America left the region, all the Uncle Tom style Iraqi's who benefited off the invasion would come under attack, and eventually Allah would join the hearts of the Iraqi people under the banner of Islam.
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INFINITE, everything you wrote, I know. and i been knowing.
are the americans responsible for this mess? of course
have they turned a blind eye to this mess? of course
has it been a policy of theirs to divide n conquer? of course
is zarqawi a stooge? of course
BUT WE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO CHOOSE "IDEAL " CIRCUMSTANCES. WE ARE IN A POSITION OF CHOOSING THE LESSER OF 2 EVILS, AND THE AMERICAN PRESENCE NOW IS THE LESSER OF 2 EVILS.
THE AVERAGE IRAQI HATES/FEARS SECRETERIAN MILITIAS MORE THAN THE AMERICANS.
Iraqi state tv reminds viewers to NOT FOLLOW IRAQI POLICE/ARMY ORDERS UNLESS THEY ARE ACCOMPANIED BY AMERICANS.
SUNNIS ASK AMERICANS TO PROTECT THEIR MOSQUES WHILE THEY PRAY.
IF THE AMERICANS LEFT IRAQ, SUNNIS WOULD BE CLEANSED FROM BAGHDAD, SHIAS WOULD ATTACK ANBAR PROVINCE, AND SUNNI TRIBESMEN FROM ALL OVER SAUDI,JORDAN,SYRIA ETC AS WELL AS SHIA IRANIAN REVOLUTOONARY GUARDS WOULD INVADE IRAQ.
infinite, do you remember the Iraq of 4 years ago? ITS DONE. IT DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE. IRAQ IS AN ARTIFICIAL CREATION THAT HAS BEEN IMPOSED ARBITRARILY FOR CENTURIES. BY OTTOMAN TURKS, SAFAVID PERSIANS, BRITISH COLONIZERS, SUNNI HASHEMITES, AND EVENTUALLY BAATHISTS, NOW AMERICANS.
"And if America left, you can bet that a great number of those Iraqi's who were benefiting off of America's occupation (all the Uncle Tom style Iraqi's) would be killed or their positions would be compromised until Iraqi's eventually unite under the only banner that can unite them which is the banner of Islam. "
INFINITE, YOURE THINKING WITH AN IDEALISTIC RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE. THAT PERSPECTIVE DOES NOT WORK. THAT PERSPECTIVE IS FOOLISH AND INCREDIBLY NAIVE. THIS IS COLD, BLOOD THIRSTY POLITICS. WHAT U ARE ADVOCATING WILL NEVER HAPPEN. THE SECOND THE AMERICANS LEAVE, WHAT U SEE NOW IN IRAQ IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT YOU WILL SEE.
BANNER OF ISLAM? LOL. THE SHIAS (BADRS AND MAHDI) FIGHT AMONGST THEM SELVES. THE SUNNIS (TRIBES AND AL QAEDA) FIGHT AMONGST THEMSELVES. THERE IS NO BANNER OF ISLAM IN IRAQ.
you guys played GTA San Andreas? imagine that game in real life, on fuckin steroids. Welcome to Iraq.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15756.htm
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Tech, I'm dissapointed in you man. Have you not learned from history what happens when Muslims call on the West (kuffar) to solve their problems?
Look, that's great if Iraq was always under an Islamic dynasty in the past. That's great if they used to be under the Ommeyed's or Abbasids or later the Safavids and then finally the Ottoman Empire. What's your point? The big problem I see was when the Ottoman fell and they fell under British colonialism. And since then it's been a bitter struggle to relieve themselves of servitude towards the West.
I'm not being naive or idealistic. As Muslims, do we depend on Allah for help or George Bush?
Look, if you want practical examples, Iran is a region next to Iraq that was once controlled by America and freed itself of foriegn intervention. Somalia is also a country that has recently began freeing itself of foriegn control. There are many examples. As far as the Sunni, Shiite thing, Muqtadr Al-Sadr is wise enough to get together with another prominent Sunni scholar and they could work something out. Look, there's been struggles between rival Islamic factions since the days of Aisha and Ali (raa), on into your country Afganistan in the early 90's after the Soviets left. But they didn't sell themselves off and beg for Jews and Christians to come in and handle their affairs. They worked it out, and some governments were better than others.
But you can't just give up and sell your soul to George Bush.
Look Tech.. now you officially can't complain about anything else that happens in Iraq from now on, because it was you that pleaded for Master Bush to stay there and save the poor Muslims.
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I agree with Tech. I've been battling this for many months on what to do next. I think I posted it up a couple of time, but no responce. Anyways, we fucked over Iraq, and it's our job to fix it. We are in a position that if we pull out, Iraq will for to shit, and possible hold a hostle government towards us that will seek out revenge. Saddam use to have these people killed, as they all hated each other. Basically getting rid of Saddam uncovered greater dangers than we ever knew existed. We uncovered a bigger threat than Saddam ever was. We need to have a base stationed there, and occupy Iraq the same way we did Japan, until they are a friendly state. We should have never went, but now, we can't leave. This is what happens when people are irresponsible with their power of waging war.
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The US has fucked up so bad that pulling the troops will just make this painfully obvious, so as long as Bush is in power (777 days) there will never be a pull of troops from Iraq. If all the troops were to come home tomorrow I wouldn't have a problem with it.
nah man, bush is considering pulling alot of troops out.
their theory sounds good, something along the lines of letting the iraqi's start assuming responsibility for their own country... only problem is it's hard to do given the current situation... where would they start?
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and i've been saying this for a while... i didnt agree with the war, but it's not possible for the U.S to just pull out... they nutted in the hypothetical pussy, now they need to pay child support... if you catch my drift.
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The US has fucked up so bad that pulling the troops will just make this painfully obvious, so as long as Bush is in power (777 days) there will never be a pull of troops from Iraq. If all the troops were to come home tomorrow I wouldn't have a problem with it.
nah man, bush is considering pulling alot of troops out.
their theory sounds good, something along the lines of letting the iraqi's start assuming responsibility for their own country... only problem is it's hard to do given the current situation... where would they start?
If Bush pulls the troops then he will be blamed for all the problems, if he doesn't pull the troops he will blamed for killing American soliders. The only solution (in his eyes) is to stay and help build. The problem is he doesn't have any legit plan for helping Iraq, but he tries to convey the message that he is. Infinite is right in what he is saying about America's power over Iraq. If Bush has a real plan for helping Iraqis rebuild the country (Iraq has to actualy want/support a plan) then it would be cool for America to stay for a while. But GWB has no realistic plan, and if he pulls out troops then he will be admitting fault (even though we all no he is to blame for everything).
Personaly, I'd like to see the troops come back. Americans don't want them there, Iraqis don't want them there, so what are they still doing there?
Hypothetically if America left the region, all the Uncle Tom style Iraqi's who benefited off the invasion would come under attack, and eventually Allah would join the hearts of the Iraqi people under the banner of Islam.
LOL. How the fuck do you know what God would do?
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I agree with Tech. I've been battling this for many months on what to do next. I think I posted it up a couple of time, but no responce. Anyways, we fucked over Iraq, and it's our job to fix it. We are in a position that if we pull out, Iraq will for to shit, and possible hold a hostle government towards us that will seek out revenge. Saddam use to have these people killed, as they all hated each other. Basically getting rid of Saddam uncovered greater dangers than we ever knew existed. We uncovered a bigger threat than Saddam ever was. We need to have a base stationed there, and occupy Iraq the same way we did Japan, until they are a friendly state. We should have never went, but now, we can't leave. This is what happens when people are irresponsible with their power of waging war.
What is the bigger threat? The reason Iraq is in chaos right now is because that was America's plan from the beggining, after America leaves things will improve.
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The civil war was instigated by the good ol coalition because that is the perfect means of divide and rule they then pose as the saviours, as the people who need to stay to keep the sides apart. Meanwhile they keep exactly the same status quo in play as was witnessed under saddam hussein and plan to "partition" Iraq but it's all for the good of the people nothing to do with weakening the state. Lol these people have some nerve I will give them that very good at deceiving. The worse the situation becomes the better it is for the pentagon because it has made no secret of the fact that it wants to stimulate real terror http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/P2OG.pdf that is from the asian times in which the writer discusses P2OG a recently declassified document which discusses the need to stimulate real terror.
You're an idiot. The U.S. has nothing to gain and everything to lose from the chaos in Iraq. We are losing soliders and billions of dollars everyday. A lot of politicians have already lost their jobs because voters are pissed off. So why would they want all the violence...to divide and conquer??? We already conquered, now we need to get the hell out because Arabs are obviously too savage to live in a peaceful democracy.
Shiites and Sunnis were slaughtering each other long before the US was in the Middle East, and they will be slaughteering each other long after we are gone. They are animals.
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Shiites and Shias were slaughtering each other long before the US was in the Middle East, and they will be slaughteering each other long after we are gone. They are animals.
CWalker... I know you're not worth it, but I couldn't resist showing you another reason why you're a fucking retard who has no clue about anything. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about... you need to catch up with everyone else and realize that.
Shiites = Shias
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I didn't say they had not conquered but the purpose of instigating a civil war is very simple it creates the perfect reason for establishing a permanent presence in the region. It creates the perfect P.R spectacle to the outside world because even those opposed to the invasion then turn around and say oh, well I know they created a real mess now but now they have no choice but to stay there. Also of course the people are so pissed that they will oust that puppet government very very quickly without the coalition presence. Though I am actually glad that you believe they should leave and are not falling for the line that we should "stay the course" my god twice in a day you have had an independent thought, what happened?
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Shiites and Shias were slaughtering each other long before the US was in the Middle East, and they will be slaughteering each other long after we are gone. They are animals.
CWalker... I know you're not worth it, but I couldn't resist showing you another reason why you're a fucking retard who has no clue about anything. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about... you need to catch up with everyone else and realize that.
Shiites = Shias
And you know that I meant Sunnis. Big whoop a typo. Now get back to the topic.
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Shiites and Sunnis were slaughtering each other long before the US was in the Middle East, and they will be slaughteering each other long after we are gone. They are animals.
in Iraq, Sunnis and Shias used to get along before the US entered into the country
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I agree with Tech. I've been battling this for many months on what to do next. I think I posted it up a couple of time, but no responce. Anyways, we fucked over Iraq, and it's our job to fix it. We are in a position that if we pull out, Iraq will for to shit, and possible hold a hostle government towards us that will seek out revenge. Saddam use to have these people killed, as they all hated each other. Basically getting rid of Saddam uncovered greater dangers than we ever knew existed. We uncovered a bigger threat than Saddam ever was. We need to have a base stationed there, and occupy Iraq the same way we did Japan, until they are a friendly state. We should have never went, but now, we can't leave. This is what happens when people are irresponsible with their power of waging war.
What is the bigger threat? The reason Iraq is in chaos right now is because that was America's plan from the beggining, after America leaves things will improve.
i'm just curious why the fuck you're still in america.
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Maybe he is proud to be american despite the way in which society has been so deeply corrupted?
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Tech, I'm dissapointed in you man. Have you not learned from history what happens when Muslims call on the West (kuffar) to solve their problems?
Look, that's great if Iraq was always under an Islamic dynasty in the past. That's great if they used to be under the Ommeyed's or Abbasids or later the Safavids and then finally the Ottoman Empire. What's your point? The big problem I see was when the Ottoman fell and they fell under British colonialism. And since then it's been a bitter struggle to relieve themselves of servitude towards the West.
I'm not being naive or idealistic. As Muslims, do we depend on Allah for help or George Bush?
Look, if you want practical examples, Iran is a region next to Iraq that was once controlled by America and freed itself of foriegn intervention. Somalia is also a country that has recently began freeing itself of foriegn control. There are many examples. As far as the Sunni, Shiite thing, Muqtadr Al-Sadr is wise enough to get together with another prominent Sunni scholar and they could work something out. Look, there's been struggles between rival Islamic factions since the days of Aisha and Ali (raa), on into your country Afganistan in the early 90's after the Soviets left. But they didn't sell themselves off and beg for Jews and Christians to come in and handle their affairs. They worked it out, and some governments were better than others.
But you can't just give up and sell your soul to George Bush.
Look Tech.. now you officially can't complain about anything else that happens in Iraq from now on, because it was you that pleaded for Master Bush to stay there and save the poor Muslims.
lol...u cant compare revolutionary Iran or modern day Somalia to present day Iraq. There is no basis for a comparison. the poor muslims cant save themselves, understand this point. its not like everyone is gonna magically realize theyre all muslims, hold hands and sing kumbaya.
let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
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That depends Tech I have great suspicions that some of those mercs in the country are clandestine groups working on behalf of one of more of the governments, therefore is it really beyond the realms of belief that they are the ones planting the car bombs? Again the prime motivation for asking that besides the fact that this has been repeatedly exposed in declassified documents is, what the hell were SAS soldiers doing dressed as arabs attacking iraqi police? As another example, Kevin Fulton formerly a british agent who was planted inside the IRA as a bomb maker stated that whenever the "terrorists" had meetings the ranking "captains" were british intelligence. Indeed one of Sinn Feinns long serving and highest ranking members was exposed as a british agent last year and was shortly after assasinated. Yet the same argument had been put forward that the british soldiers needed to stay in Ireland to quell and contain and establish a peaceful Ireland when all the time they were controlling the situation. I am not implying that the IRA did not exist before british intelligence but it goes from being basically a rag tag bunch of pissed freedom fighters, to a deadly efficient group who could carry out bombings and shootings with real precision. It has come out in the news that many of the british intelligence informants within the IRA were the ones responsible for carrying out the assasinations but the response put forward by the british government was that the assets needed to blend in and not arouse suspicion so they were put in a difficult position. That is a plausible explanation and one I had kind of accepted until that is mr fulton's revelations.
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let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
All the Uncle Tom Iraqi's will be rooted out (Iraqi's that benefited off the occupation). Then eventually someone like Muqtada Al-Sadr will negotiate a deal for peace with an Amir (leader) of the Sunni Ulama.
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let me ask u a question. if american pulled out immediately, what would happen, in your estimation?
All the Uncle Tom Iraqi's will be rooted out (Iraqi's that benefited off the occupation). Then eventually someone like Muqtada Al-Sadr will negotiate a deal for peace with an Amir (leader) of the Sunni Ulama.
Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, the highest Shia authority in Iraq gave his blessings to the govt in power there. LOL, whose gonna root him out?
Muqtada Al Sadr is going to renegotiate peace deals? Death Squad Al Sadr is gonna negotiate a peace deal , lol?
Who is the Amir of the Sunni Ulama. You do realize that the Shura Council, is an umbrella group representing various Sunni groups.
Who is gonna lead them? Sunni tribes from Anbar? BUT THEY CURRENTLY TAKE PART IN THE GOVT. So i guess they;ll already have been uprooted. Al Qaeda in Iraq? Theyre gonna negotiate peace deals? Those fucks play a huge role in the disastrous turn of affairs in secreterian relations.
You see Infinite, I would love for what u suggest to occur But it is a dream, a fantasy and does not resemble the reality on the ground. We have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils, not blatantly denounce everyting in the hopes some miracolous Good will occur.
Virtouso, I am well aware of what you are sayin. Im well aware of those 2 british agents in Basra. I am well aware of the at least 4 military bases the Americans are building. I am well aware of the historical success of colonial practices of divide and conquer. What Im sayin, is that the alternative is worse than what we re seein now, as bad as it is.
Iraq needs to be decentralized and split into autonomous regions.
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I wasn't trying to score points basically my point was if the overwhelming majority of these major bombings are being carried out by clandestine operational groups then the continuing presence there will lead to more clandestine operaions and thus an even greater upsurge in the genuine reprisal attacks that occur. Until a point where the agenda has been reached and the infrastructure and people there are totally broken. I am not being patronising but the analogy between wanting the coalition to stay despite their obvious tactics is like a loving dog being smacked upside the head kicked to the ground but still lovingly coming back to it's owner for protection and love.
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Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, the highest Shia authority in Iraq gave his blessings to the govt in power there. LOL, whose gonna root him out?
-Ayotollah Sistani has only really given tacit approval to the government. Basically, the Shia' leadership is trying to be wise and play both sides of the fence by placing their people in power, and still maintaining an Iraqi version of Hezbollah style militia via Al-Sadr's Mehdi militia keeping credibility in the streets.
Muqtada Al Sadr is going to renegotiate peace deals? Death Squad Al Sadr is gonna negotiate a peace deal , lol?
-That Al-Sadr death squad thing is blown out of proportion, it's US propaganda straight from CNN. Read any of Sadr's interviews, he mentions often that he blames America for the bombings and killings and he does not blame the Sunni's. Also, he sends out calls to all Muslims and Iraqi to oppose the occupation and calls for a full withdrawal of US troops.
Who is the Amir of the Sunni Ulama. You do realize that the Shura Council, is an umbrella group representing various Sunni groups.
Who is gonna lead them? Sunni tribes from Anbar? BUT THEY CURRENTLY TAKE PART IN THE GOVT. So i guess they;ll already have been uprooted. Al Qaeda in Iraq? Theyre gonna negotiate peace deals? Those fucks play a huge role in the disastrous turn of affairs in secreterian relations.
An Amir from the Sunni Ulama can not truly emerge at this time because obviously they are under siege at the moment from US occupation forces.
If you want to talk about Al-Queda's supposed presence in Iraq; you should know that their supposed leader Usama's objectives have never been to battle Shia' and he has stated in interviews even prior to Sept. 11th that he felt that the big problem was American hegemony and American occupation of Muslim lands; and that that was to be dealt with first, and that once that was accomplished it would be easier to deal peacefully with what he considered lesser disputes such as Shia/Sunni disputes.
You see Infinite, I would love for what u suggest to occur But it is a dream, a fantasy and does not resemble the reality on the ground. We have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils, not blatantly denounce everyting in the hopes some miracolous Good will occur.
You've fallen victim to media propaganda. You should get rid of the television in your house. It was their objective always to dictate what the debate will be, and to offer two solutions, both of which will ultimately benefit them, and let the idiot public debate between the two solutions. Don't be so silly as to fall for that.
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Ayatollah Ali Al Sistani, the highest Shia authority in Iraq gave his blessings to the govt in power there. LOL, whose gonna root him out?
-Ayotollah Sistani has only really given tacit approval to the government. Basically, the Shia' leadership is trying to be wise and play both sides of the fence by placing their people in power, and still maintaining an Iraqi version of Hezbollah style militia via Al-Sadr's Mehdi militia keeping credibility in the streets.
Muqtada Al Sadr is going to renegotiate peace deals? Death Squad Al Sadr is gonna negotiate a peace deal , lol?
-That Al-Sadr death squad thing is blown out of proportion, it's US propaganda straight from CNN. Read any of Sadr's interviews, he mentions often that he blames America for the bombings and killings and he does not blame the Sunni's. Also, he sends out calls to all Muslims and Iraqi to oppose the occupation and calls for a full withdrawal of US troops.
Who is the Amir of the Sunni Ulama. You do realize that the Shura Council, is an umbrella group representing various Sunni groups.
Who is gonna lead them? Sunni tribes from Anbar? BUT THEY CURRENTLY TAKE PART IN THE GOVT. So i guess they;ll already have been uprooted. Al Qaeda in Iraq? Theyre gonna negotiate peace deals? Those fucks play a huge role in the disastrous turn of affairs in secreterian relations.
An Amir from the Sunni Ulama can not truly emerge at this time because obviously they are under siege at the moment from US occupation forces.
If you want to talk about Al-Queda's supposed presence in Iraq; you should know that their supposed leader Usama's objectives have never been to battle Shia' and he has stated in interviews even prior to Sept. 11th that he felt that the big problem was American hegemony and American occupation of Muslim lands; and that that was to be dealt with first, and that once that was accomplished it would be easier to deal peacefully with what he considered lesser disputes such as Shia/Sunni disputes.
You see Infinite, I would love for what u suggest to occur But it is a dream, a fantasy and does not resemble the reality on the ground. We have to choose between the lesser of 2 evils, not blatantly denounce everyting in the hopes some miracolous Good will occur.
You've fallen victim to media propaganda. You should get rid of the television in your house. It was their objective always to dictate what the debate will be, and to offer two solutions, both of which will ultimately benefit them, and let the idiot public debate between the two solutions. Don't be so silly as to fall for that.
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first u say all iraqis who benefited from the govt should be uprooted, then you basically admit that shias have given their approval to this govt. Sadr, Sistani, Hakimi ALL support the govt. They may despise the occupation, but all of them ARE the govt. How are u going to uproot the Shia political institution?
Zarqawi called Shias Kuffar. Al Qaeda in Iraq is vehemently against the Shia. And the other Sunnis are too weak/marginalized to confront Al Qaeda and when they do, they do it with the tacit support of Americans.'
Sadr is at the very least turning a blind eye to the militias, that becames him complicit in their activities.
Heres the thing, the ONLY FORM OF CO OPERATION BETWEEN SHIAS AND SUNNIS OCCURS AT THE GOVT LEVEL WITH THE AMERICANS INVOLVED. THIS IS SAD BUT TRUE.
See, my thing is you dont have anything to offer, any concrete realistic practical solution. you expect the americans to leave tomorrow, and everyone is going to squash their beefs.
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Those Iraqis aren't brought up like you Infinite. They aren't like you. Just because they're muslims doesn't mean they have your reasoning. Matter of fact those Americans there are much more like you than those Iraqis, even if you'd never be happy with that, it is what it is.
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I ain't tryna offend iraqis, but fuck them. Who's problem is it to deal with "civil war?" Iraqis. US have no reason to occupy that place at all. We just wasting troops like gas fuel. If iraqis can't defend...well..they're fucked and that's the way it's gonna have to be unless they step.
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2Pac will put an end to all wars.
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Those Iraqis aren't brought up like you Infinite. They aren't like you. Just because they're muslims doesn't mean they have your reasoning. Matter of fact those Americans there are much more like you than those Iraqis, even if you'd never be happy with that, it is what it is.
And you know about the Iraqi's how? By watching CNN?
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first u say all iraqis who benefited from the govt should be uprooted, then you basically admit that shias have given their approval to this govt. Sadr, Sistani, Hakimi ALL support the govt. They may despise the occupation, but all of them ARE the govt. How are u going to uproot the Shia political institution?
Zarqawi called Shias Kuffar. Al Qaeda in Iraq is vehemently against the Shia. And the other Sunnis are too weak/marginalized to confront Al Qaeda and when they do, they do it with the tacit support of Americans.'
Sadr is at the very least turning a blind eye to the militias, that becames him complicit in their activities.
Heres the thing, the ONLY FORM OF CO OPERATION BETWEEN SHIAS AND SUNNIS OCCURS AT THE GOVT LEVEL WITH THE AMERICANS INVOLVED. THIS IS SAD BUT TRUE.
See, my thing is you dont have anything to offer, any concrete realistic practical solution. you expect the americans to leave tomorrow, and everyone is going to squash their beefs.
Don't be a sell-out.
Look, Vietnam had a civil war of it's own. Ho Chi Min's followers fought against Vietnamese who were benefiting from America's occupation. After America left, things didn't get worse, they got better. So what you are proposing is that the Iraqi's are somehow less human and less civilized than the Vietanamese.
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The civil war was instigated by the good ol coalition because that is the perfect means of divide and rule they then pose as the saviours, as the people who need to stay to keep the sides apart. Meanwhile they keep exactly the same status quo in play as was witnessed under saddam hussein and plan to "partition" Iraq but it's all for the good of the people nothing to do with weakening the state. Lol these people have some nerve I will give them that very good at deceiving. The worse the situation becomes the better it is for the pentagon because it has made no secret of the fact that it wants to stimulate real terror http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/P2OG.pdf that is from the asian times in which the writer discusses P2OG a recently declassified document which discusses the need to stimulate real terror.
You're an idiot. The U.S. has nothing to gain and everything to lose from the chaos in Iraq. We are losing soliders and billions of dollars everyday. A lot of politicians have already lost their jobs because voters are pissed off. So why would they want all the violence...to divide and conquer???
I agree with Real American for once. At least in this regard. How can you seriously be that caught up in this conspiracy theory nonsense to think there is some group pulling strings to incite violence in Iraq.
GWB would have loved to see Iraq go well. Unlike Cwalker I'm not an apologist for America. He wants to blame the Iraqis, but you blame the party that instigates that action - not the party the action was taken against. If we're such an amazing country, we should have known better, but we didn't. Blaming Iraq is like a parent blaming their 3 yr old for not knowing how to behave properly yet.
But either way... virtuoso, people like you depress me. It's sad to see people deform their mental state so horribly. Get off the nonsense. And stop lurking around these conspiracy nut web sites. That's what's fuckin wit ur head... just like freerepublic.com be fuckin wit Real American.
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I agree with Real American for once. At least in this regard. How can you seriously be that caught up in this conspiracy theory nonsense to think there is some group pulling strings to incite violence in Iraq.
GWB would have loved to see Iraq go well. Unlike Cwalker I'm not an apologist for America. He wants to blame the Iraqis, but you blame the party that instigates that action - not the party the action was taken against. If we're such an amazing country, we should have known better, but we didn't. Blaming Iraq is like a parent blaming their 3 yr old for not knowing how to behave properly yet.
But either way... virtuoso, people like you depress me. It's sad to see people deform their mental state so horribly. Get off the nonsense. And stop lurking around these conspiracy nut web sites. That's what's fuckin wit ur head... just like freerepublic.com be fuckin wit Real American.
Ant, so are you saying that Bush just cared so much about the Iraqi people and loved them so much, and he thought that Sadaam Hussien was a bad man, and he wanted to help the poor Iraqi people, and all Bush wanted to do was just remove Sadaam from power and put in a great democratic government right away and then leave; all to help Iraq become a great, thriving nation that would one day compete with Isreal?
You really believe all that? I know you don't believe that. Look, none of the architects of this war wanted Iraq to be a success. They wanted to weaken them permanently and usurp their resources for as long as possible. That's the truth, but believe what you want. I expected it from the Republicans, but I never would of thought Tech would do it.
Listen, this stuff was all planned well in advance. You think these people don't plan these things?
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first u say all iraqis who benefited from the govt should be uprooted, then you basically admit that shias have given their approval to this govt. Sadr, Sistani, Hakimi ALL support the govt. They may despise the occupation, but all of them ARE the govt. How are u going to uproot the Shia political institution?
Zarqawi called Shias Kuffar. Al Qaeda in Iraq is vehemently against the Shia. And the other Sunnis are too weak/marginalized to confront Al Qaeda and when they do, they do it with the tacit support of Americans.'
Sadr is at the very least turning a blind eye to the militias, that becames him complicit in their activities.
Heres the thing, the ONLY FORM OF CO OPERATION BETWEEN SHIAS AND SUNNIS OCCURS AT THE GOVT LEVEL WITH THE AMERICANS INVOLVED. THIS IS SAD BUT TRUE.
See, my thing is you dont have anything to offer, any concrete realistic practical solution. you expect the americans to leave tomorrow, and everyone is going to squash their beefs.
Don't be a sell-out.
Look, Vietnam had a civil war of it's own. Ho Chi Min's followers fought against Vietnamese who were benefiting from America's occupation. After America left, things didn't get worse, they got better. So what you are proposing is that the Iraqi's are somehow less human and less civilized than the Vietanamese.
there is no comparison between the nature of the civil war in vietnam and the civil war in iraq. stop making generalized statements. all youre offering is broad comparisons and vague unpractical answers. politics is a dirty game, and this is a dirty world. youre discussing politics through hope and ideology, instead of reason and logic.
i never said iraq should be turned over to the americans. what does the title of the thread say? "an immediate pull out of american troops will be disastrous" and it would be, i dont know how u cant see that. the conditions is not right for a withdrawal.
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there is no comparison between the nature of the civil war in vietnam and the civil war in iraq. stop making generalized statements. all youre offering is broad comparisons and vague unpractical answers. politics is a dirty game, and this is a dirty world. youre discussing politics through hope and ideology, instead of reason and logic.
i never said iraq should be turned over to the americans. what does the title of the thread say? "an immediate pull out of american troops will be disastrous" and it would be, i dont know how u cant see that. the conditions is not right for a withdrawal.
You sound like Wolf Blitzer
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there is no comparison between the nature of the civil war in vietnam and the civil war in iraq. stop making generalized statements. all youre offering is broad comparisons and vague unpractical answers. politics is a dirty game, and this is a dirty world. youre discussing politics through hope and ideology, instead of reason and logic.
i never said iraq should be turned over to the americans. what does the title of the thread say? "an immediate pull out of american troops will be disastrous" and it would be, i dont know how u cant see that. the conditions is not right for a withdrawal.
You sound like Wolf Blitzer
dont try to be clever bryan. your bullshit islam speeches have totally discredited you as a normal mentally sound human being. you deserve to be raped and left in a baghdad gutter
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damn, wouldn't the world be a lovely place if it worked the way infinite thinks it would............
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is it really up to Americans to solve their problems
It would only be right since America created those problems. I'm conflicted on it though because i want the troops to come home because I feel they should have never been there in the first place.
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there is no comparison between the nature of the civil war in vietnam and the civil war in iraq. stop making generalized statements. all youre offering is broad comparisons and vague unpractical answers. politics is a dirty game, and this is a dirty world. youre discussing politics through hope and ideology, instead of reason and logic.
i never said iraq should be turned over to the americans. what does the title of the thread say? "an immediate pull out of american troops will be disastrous" and it would be, i dont know how u cant see that. the conditions is not right for a withdrawal.
You sound like Wolf Blitzer
Well, yes, but you sound like every other suburban cracker who's lonely and can't fit in and has aligned himself with what he sees as an anti-mainstream movement to try and raise his self-esteem. The fact that you attacked Rod for making honest observations because they didn't conform to your idea of what Islam is supposed to be shows what you really are.
Give it up, cracker. You're never gonna be accepted amongst the GODS, and in the end, I'm going to kill you when Judgment Day rolls around, anyway.
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^You sound like a suburban cracker too. born and raised in the great state of maine. entranced like a snake by hip hop music, willing to throw away your proper upbringing and take an extreme stance on your fellow white colleagues who ridiculed you in high school for being a timid nerd. get in where fit in nerd, be proud of who you are. which is not a god.
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^You sound like a suburban cracker too. born and raised in the great state of maine. entranced like a snake by hip hop music, willing to throw away your proper upbringing and take an extreme stance on your fellow white colleagues who ridiculed you in high school for being a timid nerd. get in where fit in nerd, be proud of who you are. which is not a god.
How many times do I have to tell you I ain't from Maine?
I am Blackman. I am GOD. The devil shall bow before me when the revolution begins.
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you are the devil
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you are the devil
Nope.
Why do you care so much, anyway?