West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: everlast1986 on February 17, 2007, 08:17:33 PM
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In a statement to the press announcing the imminent release of his sophomore solo album, Carry On, on Thursday (February 15) Chris Cornell confirmed months of rumors by announcing that he has left Audioslave.
"Due to irresolvable personality conflicts as well as musical differences, I am permanently leaving the band Audioslave," he said in a statement. "I wish the other three members" guitarist Tom Morello, bassist Tim Commerford and drummer Brad Wilk "nothing but the best in all of their future endeavors."
That was the extent of Cornell's statement regarding his departure. But this afternoon, when MTV News spoke with Cornell about his decision to leave Audioslave, he said he had been thinking about leaving since the band finished recording its last effort, Revelations.
"It was clear to all of us we needed some time apart, and what that produces is anybody's guess," he said. "In my case, it produced a very prolific writing period, and getting back into writing songs on my own, liking what that means which is sort of a freedom and time to just experiment with music to a degree I kind of like more and making records that have everything I like about music in them. Audioslave was a very fresh collaboration because it was very much like a young band, where you all write together in a room. But my experience, in terms of songwriting and record-creating, is not like a 19-year-old guy in a rock band. For me to be satisfied, I think I need to be able to be on my own, in the long run."
The announcement comes just two weeks after Rage Against the Machine revealed they would be reuniting for this year's Coachella festival in Indio, California, on April 29, ending seven years of dormancy (see "Rage Against The Machine To Reunite For Coachella Festival"). It also raises speculation as to what the future holds for Rage and whether a Soundgarden reunion could be in the works.
Rumors of Cornell's departure began last fall, when Audioslave elected not to tour behind last year's Revelations LP.
Earlier this month, Morello told MTV News that, for now, the Rage reunion would be a one-off, adding that his principal focus at the moment is his solo project, the Nightwatchman (see "Nightwatchman, Rage Reunion Have Morello Fired Up For Political Fights").
Morello said at the time that he wasn't sure what would become of Audioslave, saying that "Audioslave is currently not touring on the record" because "Chris [Cornell] did not want to tour. To me, it seems that the world needs songs of rebellion and revolution right now."
Just weeks before Rage were named one of Coachella's headlining acts, Morello demurred when asked by MTV News whether Audioslave was over, saying "[people] have been telling me Audioslave was breaking up for some time now. No new news there." He would not officially describe the band's status.
Cornell's album, which was helmed by producer Steve Lillywhite (U2, Rolling Stones) and is the follow-up to 1999's Euphoria Morning, will be in stores May 1. The LP will contain 14 tracks, including "Safe and Sound," "Scar on the Sky" and a slow-grind cover of Michael Jackson's "Billy Jean."
In July, Cornell denied Audioslave-split rumors, months before the band issued Revelations (see "Chris Cornell Working On Solo LP But Dismisses Rumors Of Audioslave Split").
"We hear rumors that Audioslave is breaking up all the time," he said. "Even in the beginning, when we were having business problems and we weren't necessarily going to be a band, we were still going to put out a record. We made a record and we loved it. I think that's where it starts the idea that we sort of started on shaky ground. You would hope that by now, putting out our third record, people wouldn't be thinking that way or be worried about it. But it comes up. I always just ignore it."
Of course, Cornell's since had a serious change of heart. "It hadn't really crossed my mind until a few days ago that I really have no intention of being in this band," he said. "It's been asked before, but it wasn't ever clear in my mind before, and I didn't really see any reason why we couldn't be a band at some point. But now, my feelings are what they are, and I just wanted to get things out on the table and be clear about it."
Cornell said the split was amicable and that, as far as he's concerned, Audioslave is finished, "Unless they want to go find another singer and go make other Audioslave records then maybe they can have two bands, with a different singer for Rage and a different singer for Audioslave, and they could go on tour and open for each other.
"I certainly don't have any animosity toward them, and I don't think anyone hates me," he continued. "And to be honest, I think those guys getting back and doing some Rage shows is great. I think one of the main reasons why I ever wanted a band like Audioslave was because of seeing Rage in 1996, and I thought they were one of the best live bands I had ever seen. That's why I wanted to do it. The thought of those guys playing shows and maybe becoming a band again I think is a great thing. There were times in Audioslave where I wondered whether those guys missed the visceral nature of the audience response that Rage would get. We had a different experience and a different crowd, but it was so specific to Rage, that kind of world that they were in, that I often wondered if they missed it."
Cornell said that Audioslave will issue a greatest-hits collection with some unreleased material at some point, "because whoever it is we owe it to will say, 'OK, we're going to put that out now,' because that's what labels do." He said he wasn't sure which label the best-of was owed to; the band released records through a partnership between Epic and Interscope.
And when asked about Soundgarden possibly reuniting, Cornell said it was doubtful. "I haven't received any phone calls from anyone in Soundgarden about a reunion since we broke up, nor have I called anyone," he said. "We were happy with how it ended. There was no unfinished business. Soundgarden wasn't a band where we broke up and everyone was like, 'I'm never f---ing talking to you again.' It wasn't like that. We've all talked to each other many times since then. Its something we don't feel we need to do."
http://www.mtv.com/#/news/articles/1552582/20070215/audioslave.jhtml
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Audioslave sucks anyway!
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Chris Cornell is the whole fucking show. He has grown way bigger than Audioslave as a band was, basically they existed as a vehicle for his songs and his incredible voice (unrivaled in rock music). Plus this gets Rage back together, although I basically can't stand the band many people love them so everything's good in the end. Chris is certainly capable of putting out a solo album just as good as anything he ever did with soundgarden or audioslave, he was 90% of each band (no disrespect intended to Tom Morello).
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i was never a big rage fan but its cool they're back together...chris cornell has an amazing voice for rock music...and whether he's in a band or going solo he's still going to make great music...though a soundgarden reunion would probably give me an orgasm
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Oh well, they had a few great songs, but the majority of their albums were never favorites of mine. He wasn't getting along with the band members for a long time anyways, right?
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Trauma, i agree with the props you give cornell but the Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle, did you hear their cover of the white stripe's "seven nation army" a truly electrifying performance, my favorite audioslave piece ever.
soundgarden, cornell's solo shit, and rage's shit is all stellar though just for the record.
-T
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If it means Rage is getting back together, I'm fine with that. I respected Audioslave but was never a really big fan of them. Although it is kinda ironic that all them just can't seem to keep their lead singer...first they lose Zach De La Rocha, now they lose Chris Cornell, and now they're back with Zach again.
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Good luck goes out to Chris with his future plans. If RATM got back together for longer than just Coachella that'd be fuckin awesome, imagine we get a new Rage album!! :o :o :o :o :o
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I was listening to 'wake up' by rage the other day, they have such a hip hop aesthetic it's ridiculous.
-T
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If it means Rage is getting back together, I'm fine with that. I respected Audioslave but was never a really big fan of them. Although it is kinda ironic that all them just can't seem to keep their lead singer...first they lose Zach De La Rocha, now they lose Chris Cornell, and now they're back with Zach again.
Reminds me of Van Halen
Roth, HAgar, Roth, HAgar, Etreme guy, Roth
As far as audioslave theyve been together for what 3 years , that was short
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Trauma, i agree with the props you give cornell but the Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle,
I'm just saying you don't listen to anything that Chris Cornell is on for anything other than Chris Cornell. His presence dominates any song he has anything to do with so ultimately it doesn't matter who's holding the guitars. Zach needs a good band, though, so it'd be better to reunite Rage because whenever Cornell decides to make music, it's going to be as good as anything Audioslave did no matter who's playing with him. That's just my personal opinion.
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Trauma, i agree with the props you give cornell but the Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle,
I'm just saying you don't listen to anything that Chris Cornell is on for anything other than Chris Cornell. His presence dominates any song he has anything to do with so ultimately it doesn't matter who's holding the guitars. Zach needs a good band, though, so it'd be better to reunite Rage because whenever Cornell decides to make music, it's going to be as good as anything Audioslave did no matter who's playing with him. That's just my personal opinion.
I see what you're saying for sure, cornell= quality.
But I still think the band in audioslave had a distinctive presence with zach and with cornell.
and while zach needs a good band, I think he would sound dope over some hip hop beats.
-T
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Well the writing was on the wall for a little while now. I thought the Audioslave albums got progressively worse. I'm actually kinda glad this happened. Cornell is amazing and I'll always check for him. Lets just hope that Rage puts out some new material.
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It's sad to hear they broke up because i was a fan. But you could see this coming, I mean how are you gonna not tour for a new album, that's half the way rock bands promote a new release. Their lackluster sales on "Revelations" proves the lack of interest on making that new album a success like the previous two. And it's too bad, because it was a solid album,
chill
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Trauma, i agree with the props you give cornell but the Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle, did you hear their cover of the white stripe's "seven nation army" a truly electrifying performance, my favorite audioslave piece ever.
soundgarden, cornell's solo shit, and rage's shit is all stellar though just for the record.
-T
Not to diss or anything, but what do you mean by "Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle"?
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If it means Rage is getting back together, I'm fine with that. I respected Audioslave but was never a really big fan of them. Although it is kinda ironic that all them just can't seem to keep their lead singer...first they lose Zach De La Rocha, now they lose Chris Cornell, and now they're back with Zach again.
Reminds me of Van Halen
Roth, HAgar, Roth, HAgar, Etreme guy, Roth
As far as audioslave theyve been together for what 3 years , that was short
actually it was roth, hagar, roth, extreme guy, hagar, roth-michael anthony
back to the topic on hand
when audioslave fist came out , they were the shit, i loved their debut....then it got played out. the second album "okay" this last one...cheese fest.... so i'm glad they're broke up. it was begining to get stale quick. rage....i only like a couple of their songs but it'll be interesting to see what they come up with after their hiatus
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Trauma, i agree with the props you give cornell but the Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle, did you hear their cover of the white stripe's "seven nation army" a truly electrifying performance, my favorite audioslave piece ever.
soundgarden, cornell's solo shit, and rage's shit is all stellar though just for the record.
-T
Not to diss or anything, but what do you mean by "Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle"?
I was saying they are of worth, I felt trauma was implying they were a footnote to cornell in the band and I was saying they were important too.
-T
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Music needs Rage right now. Most people in the industry are too materilistic an PUSSY to get political. the battle for los angeles is still one of my faovrites cover to cover.
ya'll remember when they played in L.A. outside of the political convention? who in the fuck else besides maybe Mos Def who do that?
damn...
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tom morello= most overrated guitar player ever
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In my opinion, Audioslave is an alright band, but RATM was THE Band. Cornell did NOT fit with the rest of Rage's sound and should have stayed in Sound Garden.
I'm not hating, it's just that the BAND was So much more better with Zach, then with Cornell. Anything RATM did far surpasses whatever Audioslave did. (their first album was alright to me, second album only the singles were good, last album was shiity)
IMO.
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Trauma, i agree with the props you give cornell but the Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle, did you hear their cover of the white stripe's "seven nation army" a truly electrifying performance, my favorite audioslave piece ever.
soundgarden, cornell's solo shit, and rage's shit is all stellar though just for the record.
-T
Not to diss or anything, but what do you mean by "Rage dudes were a comparable piece of the audioslave puzzle"?
I was saying they are of worth, I felt trauma was implying they were a footnote to cornell in the band and I was saying they were important too.
-T
vale, that makes sense
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Rock music is still around? Chris Cornell, wasn't this dude in Soundgarden? These guys are still making albums?
I know they can tour and make money because a concert gives people an excuse to get drunk and party and relive the 7th grade again, but they still bother to do new records?
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Rock music is still around? Chris Cornell, wasn't this dude in Soundgarden? These guys are still making albums?
I know they can tour and make money because a concert gives people an excuse to get drunk and party and relive the 7th grade again, but they still bother to do new records?
jay z still making records? snoop still making records? nas still making records after 13 years too?
Jay z or snoop, for example, are some artists who've fallen off WAY harder than any of the dudes we're talking about in this thread...and I like snoop. There are certainly rock artists to diss, RATM and Soundgarden probably are NOT untalented enough to be at the top of that list. and RATM is a west coast hip hop act, come on man. Respect.
peace-T
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jay z still making records? snoop still making records? nas still making records after 13 years too?
Jay z or snoop, for example, are some artists who've fallen off WAY harder than any of the dudes we're talking about in this thread...and I like snoop. There are certainly rock artists to diss, RATM and Soundgarden probably are NOT untalented enough to be at the top of that list. and RATM is a west coast hip hop act, come on man. Respect.
peace-T
Man... Rock is nothing compared to hip-hop. Nas just released a remarkable album, that is totally relevant to the current industry and world climate.
Rock hasn't been relevant for years. I remember being in highschool and all these kids were talking about Rage Against the Machine being so political and everything. So I would ask them, "How are they political. Tell me what their songs say. What do they talk about?" And not one of them could answer me. It was just some stupid image thing. Like Marilyn Manson or Ozzy Osbourne. Those dudes make terrible music that sounds like trash, but people like the whole devil worshipping image cause it gives them something to identify with and rebel in the same exact way their parents rebelled cause actually Ozzy is as old as their dad anyway.
Rass Kass first album was way more expressive politically than anything I've ever heard in Rock. I understand now (many years later) that Rage was talking alot about South American polotics, and I'll admit some of their work back in the day was decent, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
And as far as Chris Cornell. This dude is like some Devil Worshipper rock artist. That Soundgarden album was some 7th grade fad record and just because of that he can still tour and sell out every show. Green Day does the same thing. These Rock artists aren't even relevant anymore, they went out with the Kurt Kobain grunge era, but they can still sell-out shows, unbelievable.
My point is why do they still record albums?
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jay z still making records? snoop still making records? nas still making records after 13 years too?
Jay z or snoop, for example, are some artists who've fallen off WAY harder than any of the dudes we're talking about in this thread...and I like snoop. There are certainly rock artists to diss, RATM and Soundgarden probably are NOT untalented enough to be at the top of that list. and RATM is a west coast hip hop act, come on man. Respect.
peace-T
Man... Rock is nothing compared to hip-hop. Nas just released a remarkable album, that is totally relevant to the current industry and world climate.
Rock hasn't been relevant for years. I remember being in highschool and all these kids were talking about Rage Against the Machine being so political and everything. So I would ask them, "How are they political. Tell me what their songs say. What do they talk about?" And not one of them could answer me. It was just some stupid image thing. Like Marilyn Manson or Ozzy Osbourne. Those dudes make terrible music that sounds like trash, but people like the whole devil worshipping image cause it gives them something to identify with and rebel in the same exact way their parents rebelled cause actually Ozzy is as old as their dad anyway.
Rass Kass first album was way more expressive politically than anything I've ever heard in Rock. I understand now (many years later) that Rage was talking alot about South American polotics, and I'll admit some of their work back in the day was decent, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
And as far as Chris Cornell. This dude is like some Devil Worshipper rock artist. That Soundgarden album was some 7th grade fad record and just because of that he can still tour and sell out every show. Green Day does the same thing. These Rock artists aren't even relevant anymore, they went out with the Kurt Kobain grunge era, but they can still sell-out shows, unbelievable.
My point is why do they still record albums?
whatever, music doesnt have to be relevant to be good or for people to wanna buy it. Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
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whatever, music doesnt have to be relevant to be good or for people to wanna buy it. Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
When I was growing up, hip-hop was huge when I was in jr. highschool. But then, everybody stopped listening to it once highschool came around and started calling it "nigger music". They called it a childish and immature "phase".
So what did they do instead of listening to hip-hop? They listened to white rock bands who used elements of hip-hop in their music, like 311 and Limp Bizkit. 311 was basically a group of white dudes who used hip-hop as their artistic inspiration, but mixed enough giutars with it so that they could sell millions to white suburban kids.
Then once college came around they started listening to Dave Mathews Band because they played all these instruments and were so wordly and political and free your mind and all this garbage. But it wasn't really about all that, it was just that they felt that was what they were supposed to be doing cause now they were "mature" college students.
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whatever, music doesnt have to be relevant to be good or for people to wanna buy it. Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
When I was growing up, hip-hop was huge when I was in jr. highschool. But then, everybody stopped listening to it once highschool came around and started calling it "nigger music". They called it childish and immature. So what did they do instead of listening to hip-hop? They listened to white rock bands who used elements of hip-hop in their music, like 311 and Limp Bizkit. They started listening to a rock group called 311 instead. 311 was basically a group of white dudes who used hip-hop as their artistic inspiration, but mixed enough giutars with it so that they could sell millions to white suburban kids.
How is that relevant to what i said? 311 isn't rock music, rock is much bigger than that
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whatever, music doesnt have to be relevant to be good or for people to wanna buy it. Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
How is that relevant to what i said? 311 isn't rock music, rock is much bigger than that
I definitely agree with you that music doesn't have to be relevant to the time for people to wanna buy it. I also agree with what you said about Rock not being as focused on lyrics (although I think the beats in hip-hop trump any of the background music in Rock).
And then you tried to say that I don't know shit about Rock music and make some soccer comparison, and that's basically where my response came from. That I know plenty about Rock music, I'm white and grew up in the suburbs where everyone listened to Rock when I was in highschool. I'm well aware of it, and the culture behind it. And I know that alot of these people that started claiming they loved Rock once highschool came along did it because of racist pretensions.
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Man... Rock is nothing compared to hip-hop. Nas just released a remarkable album, that is totally relevant to the current industry and world climate.
Rock hasn't been relevant for years. I remember being in highschool and all these kids were talking about Rage Against the Machine being so political and everything. So I would ask them, "How are they political. Tell me what their songs say. What do they talk about?" And not one of them could answer me. It was just some stupid image thing. Like Marilyn Manson or Ozzy Osbourne. Those dudes make terrible music that sounds like trash, but people like the whole devil worshipping image cause it gives them something to identify with and rebel in the same exact way their parents rebelled cause actually Ozzy is as old as their dad anyway.
Mayne, every time I want to sympathize with you, you go and say some stupid shit like this that makes me roll my eyes at what a self-hating delusional cracker you are. I don't believe you're going out and criticizing Rage, one of the most overtly and intelligently political groups in all of music history, all because you think it's "white music". Idiot, when I was in high school, there were LOTS of black dudes who listened to PE and Rage side-by-side...Zach De La Rocha's lyrics are more-or-less hip-hop styled, and their guitarist Tom Morello is black and the nephew of Jomo Kenyatta. Do you realize how many rappers support Rage? Do you realize how much respect Rage commands from the political side of hip-hop? You talk shit about Rage and you're playing yourself.
And miss me with this bullshit "rock isn't relevent, but hip-hop is". Oh, right, cause NAS of all people released a good album. Well and done, except Young Jeezy released an album with nothing relevent to say that outsold Nas' album in its first week on the charts. You fucking idiot...here you are stereotyping all rock as mindlessly rebellious white music that's not relevent, and yet you'll turn around and vehemently deny the same thing is true about hip-hop even though hip-hop is FAR easier to stereotype for being irrelevent (namely, cause it's all about guns, drugs, and bitches according to the uneducated). But of course...it's what the WHITE KIDS listen to, so it must suck. God damn...
Learn something, cracker...you don't represent what real niggas think. You AREN'T fucking black no matter how much you wish you were and how much self-hatred you have. So give it up and stop with this bullshit. I'm fucking sick of hearing it. And besides, like I've told you before, Allah said that you too will have to die when Judgment Day comes.
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Mayne, every time I want to sympathize with you, you go and say some stupid shit like this that makes me roll my eyes at what a self-hating delusional cracker you are. I don't believe you're going out and criticizing Rage, one of the most overtly and intelligently political groups in all of music history, all because you think it's "white music". Idiot, when I was in high school, there were LOTS of black dudes who listened to PE and Rage side-by-side...Zach De La Rocha's lyrics are more-or-less hip-hop styled, and their guitarist Tom Morello is black and the nephew of Jomo Kenyatta. Do you realize how many rappers support Rage? Do you realize how much respect Rage commands from the political side of hip-hop? You talk shit about Rage and you're playing yourself.
And miss me with this bullshit "rock isn't relevent, but hip-hop is". Oh, right, cause NAS of all people released a good album. Well and done, except Young Jeezy released an album with nothing relevent to say that outsold Nas' album in its first week on the charts. You fucking idiot...here you are stereotyping all rock as mindlessly rebellious white music that's not relevent, and yet you'll turn around and vehemently deny the same thing is true about hip-hop even though hip-hop is FAR easier to stereotype for being irrelevent (namely, cause it's all about guns, drugs, and bitches according to the uneducated). But of course...it's what the WHITE KIDS listen to, so it must suck. God damn...
Learn something, cracker...you don't represent what real niggas think. You AREN'T fucking black no matter how much you wish you were and how much self-hatred you have. So give it up and stop with this bullshit. I'm fucking sick of hearing it. And besides, like I've told you before, Allah said that you too will have to die when Judgment Day comes.
Your respect is not something I strive for, because that would be a great waste of my time; because some people will dislike you no matter what you do; and you definitely fall in that category.
Also, you totally misinterpreted what I said, and you need to learn how to read.
If you actually read what I really said above I did give Rage Against the Machine their respect. My complaint was against their fans that I encountered in my own highschool, who claimed they loved Rage because they were political, but couldn't explain to you the first thing about their political views. And overall, my post was explaining how alot of white people I grew up had racist motivations for listening to Rock music over rap in the first place.
Secondly, I am on the Hip-Hop is Dead bandwagon, I'm even writing a book about it. So you don't have to tell me anything about the degradation of hip-hop because your not telling me anything I don't already know.
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Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
That's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.
Some people need to be spoon fed lyrical content. They don't want to have to wonder about what the song is about. They want to know it right away because they can't be bothered with using their brain to figure it out. Sometimes it's a little more in your face in rock and sometimes it's very subtle. A song like "the River" can simply be a story of a young man being forced to marry his pregnant girlfriend and throw his youth away, but upon looking deeper it can just as much be about society turning their backs on the working class and the government doing little to make things right, thus leaving the common folk stranded in the ruts they were born in. It's about classism. And it doesn't need to come right out and say that in the lyrics like a Nas song would have. Nas couldn't even leave a song about a gun in the first person to the imagination. He actually had to come out and say "I'm a gun" in the song like we couldn't figure it out. That's what Nas thinks of his fans.
Cornell and Audio Slave were pretty relevant lately. Their first album in 2002 was just certified triple platinum, and the one that followed went platinum. You want a poltical song by Cornell? Here it is;
http://www.youtube.com/v/dQHwGBImd_I
Not my favourite lyrical song by them but certainly relevant to the times.
I definitely agree with you that music doesn't have to be relevant to the time for people to wanna buy it. I also agree with what you said about Rock not being as focused on lyrics (although I think the beats in hip-hop trump any of the background music in Rock).
Aren't they the same thing? The beats are more often than not just taken from old rock records. Read up a bit about the history of hip hop and you'll see something you already know but fail to admit; the orginal DJs had to spin rock records for the rappers because they were the only tracks with hard enough beats to rap over.
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btw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare.
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how do rock artists not focus on their lyrics as much as hip hop artists do?
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btw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare.
That's totally fine that you don't like rock but surely you understand as a non fan you're probably not in the position to make such sweeiping judgements as you just made. Honestly, there's good and bad of every genre...anything that's popular is gonna have lines of motherfuckers doing it. Music is popular, so there's lots of cats rockin and rappin. some are dope at rockin and rappin, some ain't. there's a dope rock group for every dope rapper you can name. and there's a whack rap group for every whack rock group you can name.
-T
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And then you say this...
btw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare.
...validating what I said all along. You dismiss them cause they're rock and more-or-less for that reason alone.
You'd be easier to take seriously if it wasn't fucking obvious you're a self-loathing cracker who wishes to dissociate himself as much as possible from anything "white". You're pathetic, homie. You really are. And you wouldn't know real niggas if you talked to them.
Oh, yeah, and LOL at you criticizing Chris Cornell as a "Satan worshipper". Aside from the fact that isn't true, you ignore some of the hip-hop with those kinds of values. There's a rapper who raps about eating babies (Brotha Lynch Hung) and even Three-6 Mafia in their early days had lots of occult/Satan references in their lyrics...but of course, you got nothing to say about that, right?
That's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.
And you, of course, are just as simple-minded as Infinite. You also shouldn't be on here anymore if you have nothing useful to contribute about discussions to HIP-HOP.
Rock not whiny? Not as ego-driven, sure, but whiny? Very much so.
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Rock music is still around?
lol @ bryan trying to get witty. we know you were rocking out to break stuff until that bad acid trip where you became scared of your own people haha
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And then you say this...
btw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare.
...validating what I said all along. You dismiss them cause they're rock and more-or-less for that reason alone.
You'd be easier to take seriously if it wasn't fucking obvious you're a self-loathing cracker who wishes to dissociate himself as much as possible from anything "white". You're pathetic, homie. You really are. And you wouldn't know real niggas if you talked to them.
Oh, yeah, and LOL at you criticizing Chris Cornell as a "Satan worshipper". Aside from the fact that isn't true, you ignore some of the hip-hop with those kinds of values. There's a rapper who raps about eating babies (Brotha Lynch Hung) and even Three-6 Mafia in their early days had lots of occult/Satan references in their lyrics...but of course, you got nothing to say about that, right?
That's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.
And you, of course, are just as simple-minded as Infinite. You also shouldn't be on here anymore if you have nothing useful to contribute about discussions to HIP-HOP.
Rock not whiny? Not as ego-driven, sure, but whiny? Very much so.
shallow spoke some truth on the pervasively repetitive braggadocio of hip hop.
-T
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And then you say this...
btw, I think Rage Against the Machine sucks anyway. But that's nothing against them, I can't think of one rock album I've ever liked. There's been a song here and there, but even that is rare.
...validating what I said all along. You dismiss them cause they're rock and more-or-less for that reason alone.
You'd be easier to take seriously if it wasn't fucking obvious you're a self-loathing cracker who wishes to dissociate himself as much as possible from anything "white". You're pathetic, homie. You really are. And you wouldn't know real niggas if you talked to them.
Oh, yeah, and LOL at you criticizing Chris Cornell as a "Satan worshipper". Aside from the fact that isn't true, you ignore some of the hip-hop with those kinds of values. There's a rapper who raps about eating babies (Brotha Lynch Hung) and even Three-6 Mafia in their early days had lots of occult/Satan references in their lyrics...but of course, you got nothing to say about that, right?
That's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.
And you, of course, are just as simple-minded as Infinite. You also shouldn't be on here anymore if you have nothing useful to contribute about discussions to HIP-HOP.
Rock not whiny? Not as ego-driven, sure, but whiny? Very much so.
What I do here and what Infinite does here is completely different. He waits for Rock threads to start and jumps in to criticize. I don't pollute the hip hop threads with negative remarks just to be an asshole and rile people up. I came here as a west coast hip hop fan years ago and over the course of time I began to experience other music and realized I didn't like hip hop all that much. I stick around the board mainly for the other threads. I spend most of my time trying to convince people Manning is better than Brady on NFL related threads and talk football in general. From time to time I pop in the TOT to add my two sense. And I check the outbound forum for threads about music I'm interested in. I was an Audio Slave and Soundgarden fan so I checked this thread out. While in it I saw something I disagreed with and explained why. Show me the last time I infiltrated a hip hop thread just to bash hip hop. This was a rock thread and for the record I thought my post had plenty to contribute about the discussion of hip hop.
I was comparing the best from each side. The bad rock like that emo crap is a joke to me. It's not the crappy rappers I was bashing, but the best rappers. Even the top calibre MCs are plaged with ego driven gloat-fests and pretentious drivel. And it's not that it's some of their songs, it's most of their better songs. I don't find a ratio like that in the top tier rock band lyricists. Many are egotistical assholes in life but I'm not trying to judge the calibre of person. I'm trying to judge the calibre of art.
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It's not the crappy rappers I was bashing, but the best rappers. Even the top calibre MCs are plaged with ego driven gloat-fests and pretentious drivel. And it's not that it's some of their songs, it's most of their better songs. I don't find a ratio like that in the top tier rock band lyricists. Many are egotistical assholes in life but I'm not trying to judge the calibre of person. I'm trying to judge the calibre of art.
Yeah, that's exactly the problem. In other words, you are no longer needed here. Subtract yourself out of the equation. And yeah, you're just as simple-minded as Infinite. You may not be as pathetic as him, but you're no less stupid. Your entire argument rests upon some moral bullshit that's utterly irrelevent to judging quality of art. Why does it matter if hip-hop is often ego-driven? It's about the skills they demonstrate on the mic. It's the simple. If you don't like that anymore fine, but now you need to stop posting on here and get lost.
And there is a FAR higher ratio of whiny rock bands to whiny hip-hop bands. I may not listen to rock as much as hip-hop and soul, but it's extremely obvious to me...how much rock deals with teenage angst and whines about how things are fucked up? And really, what rock band has ever shown any more intelligent insight than something by say, PE? I'm not just talking about emo-rock, either. One of my favorite rock albums of all time, "Appetite for Destruction" by Guns N Roses, sure as hell doesn't contain anything that's some kinda rocket science. So shut the fuck up and cease to talk bullshit. And bitch be gone.
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It's not the crappy rappers I was bashing, but the best rappers. Even the top calibre MCs are plaged with ego driven gloat-fests and pretentious drivel. And it's not that it's some of their songs, it's most of their better songs. I don't find a ratio like that in the top tier rock band lyricists. Many are egotistical assholes in life but I'm not trying to judge the calibre of person. I'm trying to judge the calibre of art.
Yeah, that's exactly the problem. In other words, you are no longer needed here. Subtract yourself out of the equation. And yeah, you're just as simple-minded as Infinite. You may not be as pathetic as him, but you're no less stupid. Your entire argument rests upon some moral bullshit that's utterly irrelevent to judging quality of art. Why does it matter if hip-hop is often ego-driven? It's about the skills they demonstrate on the mic. It's the simple. If you don't like that anymore fine, but now you need to stop posting on here and get lost.
And there is a FAR higher ratio of whiny rock bands to whiny hip-hop bands. I may not listen to rock as much as hip-hop and soul, but it's extremely obvious to me...how much rock deals with teenage angst and whines about how things are fucked up? And really, what rock band has ever shown any more intelligent insight than something by say, PE? I'm not just talking about emo-rock, either. One of my favorite rock albums of all time, "Appetite for Destruction" by Guns N Roses, sure as hell doesn't contain anything that's some kinda rocket science. So shut the fuck up and cease to talk bullshit. And bitch be gone.
Okay now you're taking an intelligent discussion and plaguing it with insults. You want to rant on me and take away from the discussion that's fine. I don't bash hip hop for the sake of bashing it. I give my reasons with what I think is wrong with it and I leave it at that. I have no reason to waste my time bashing you.
To respond to what you said I have to explain that the morality or morals of hip hop are not what I was harping over. When I say ego-driven I mean that the artist or rapper becomes more important than the art and that impacts the quality. When it's becomes more important that a rapper is "real" than whether his songs are good then it becomes a problem. If I found out tomorrow that Tupac was a closet pedophile who masturbated to pictures of young children, it would have no affect on what I thought about his art. Hip Hop has put the rapper before the rap for too long now.
I'm not talking about the current rock scene. I know very little about it. I don't listen to much new music. So I don't know what the current ratio of whiny bands to non whiny bands is but of the all time greats I don't hear much whining. Could you give me examples of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Beatles, Pearl Jam, The Rolling Stones, GnR, Metallica, etc where they have more literal complaint songs than not?
I love PE and have never slighted them. I said "most" not all when it comes to rappers from the beginning, but GnR is not the right band to compare them to, (eventhough there are quite a few songs that nicely tackle issues like the big city street life, drug addiction, terrible upbringings, and acid trips). Why don't you mention the mid 60s Dylan, early 70s Niel Young, or mid 70s to early 80s Springsteen? I'll put their top stuff over PE any day.
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how do rock artists not focus on their lyrics as much as hip hop artists do?
well, what i meant was they're not as literal as rap lyrics usually are. They're pretty abstract in a lot of cases. Shallow is right that hip hop lyrics are too literal at times, they leave nothing to imagination, but that's not always true either. I think there's no point in trying to diss either genre. There's good and bad in every genre. There's plenty of trash rock and god knows theres plenty of shit hip hop
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to me hip hop has gotten so boring, not in the sense of new hip hop, just listening to all hip hop in general. i get nothing from it. its not art. its not poetry. ok, sooome is, but for the most part its metaphors which nobody cares about ("like short sleeves, i bear arms") and like it was said before, its all literal. most rap songs are so random also, theres no central idea and if there is the rapper bounces to and from it into random lines about nothing related. as for rock, i think lyrics in rock are a big thing, and people are crazy to not think that. they are poetry and art. and most new bands do suck so basing rock on fall out boy and panic at the disco is stupid. on rage against the machine, i think they are great, musically and lyrically. they have so much power in their "message" its like they arent just saying something, they are hitting you in the head with a baseball bat made from their idea, or something like that. an example of the poetry and abstractness of rock and the politics of rage one of my fav songs by them is "killing in the name of", i mean the lyrics are pretty simple, but all the while what he is saying could be intrerpreted in so many ways.
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In my opinion, it is an extremely narcistic attitude and a very, very pretentious base for a statement to argue that something has greater calibre of art and is objectively of higher value when it comes to music. I, actually, feel like slapping such people.
Art is the outcome of a creative process. There's no hierarchy of value implied in it.
Music is as good as it is in reaching what it's supposed to be. Like, a song that is meant to be political, and fails miserably at it, sucks. A song that is supposed to make people laugh, but fails miserably at it, sucks. Yet, neither does a song have to make people laugh nor does it have to be political. Some people prefer funny songs, some political. That is completely subjective.
Ultimately, you can not call a song that excels in featuring great battle rhymes worse than a song that excels in touching people on an emotional level - because both songs are good at what they are supposed to be good at.
I also pity anyone who thinks he can be completely objective towards the whole wide spectre of music, let alone art.
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Rock has never been as focused as rap ever was, it's a more abstract form of music and more focused on the melody rather than the lyrics. don't talk shit, it's like when american people talk shit about soccer cuz they don't know shit about it
That's incorrect. The reason I put most my hip hop records away was because of how unfocused they were. They don't focus on lyrics, or subject matter, or poetry. They focus on ego. Hip Hop is, and always was, for the most part a bragging contest. Whether it was about the guns you have, gangster things you've done, the money you make, or rap skills you possess. When it's not bragging it's whining; about what is and isn't gangster, what is and isn't hip hop, what is and isn't fair. And worst of all it's done in such a childish manner. Nas's last record with regards to relevance in society was as terrible as all his others. He raps to the lowest common denominator. He leaves very little to the imagination. Everything is so literal. It's not art to be interpreted. It's second rate lessons to be learned, except the only thing I learned in the end was how much time I wasted listening to it all those years.
Some people need to be spoon fed lyrical content. They don't want to have to wonder about what the song is about. They want to know it right away because they can't be bothered with using their brain to figure it out. Sometimes it's a little more in your face in rock and sometimes it's very subtle. A song like "the River" can simply be a story of a young man being forced to marry his pregnant girlfriend and throw his youth away, but upon looking deeper it can just as much be about society turning their backs on the working class and the government doing little to make things right, thus leaving the common folk stranded in the ruts they were born in. It's about classism. And it doesn't need to come right out and say that in the lyrics like a Nas song would have. Nas couldn't even leave a song about a gun in the first person to the imagination. He actually had to come out and say "I'm a gun" in the song like we couldn't figure it out. That's what Nas thinks of his fans.
Cornell and Audio Slave were pretty relevant lately. Their first album in 2002 was just certified triple platinum, and the one that followed went platinum. You want a poltical song by Cornell? Here it is;
http://www.youtube.com/v/dQHwGBImd_I
Not my favourite lyrical song by them but certainly relevant to the times.
I definitely agree with you that music doesn't have to be relevant to the time for people to wanna buy it. I also agree with what you said about Rock not being as focused on lyrics (although I think the beats in hip-hop trump any of the background music in Rock).
Aren't they the same thing? The beats are more often than not just taken from old rock records. Read up a bit about the history of hip hop and you'll see something you already know but fail to admit; the orginal DJs had to spin rock records for the rappers because they were the only tracks with hard enough beats to rap over.
you see you speaking some major bullshit there.....you saying all nas shit is garbageis like me saying all rock shit is bullshit white boy music that don't sound good....its wrong....nas is art whether you like it or not....fact is most people cannot do what nas can and same i am sure with what some of these rock cats are doing who are the better ones.....nas speaks on alot of shit, is hella relavant and poetic and portrays his shit in art....there aint no denying this.....i use to get the feeling that you are some pro white/anti black music cat who only likes eminem in hiphop...infact im sure no matter what you say about nas.....eminem is someone you like alot no matter what you will say....its evident by alot of posts you have spoken on eminem in the past....but no i will not be bringing them back up............
now nas is a great and his shit is art...and yes he has some steriotype shit going for him but he goes against the grain with alot of shit aswell....and im sure that alot of these rock cats who are considered great fit many rock steriotypes aswell but they have something which stands out form the rest....you coming in here speaking like hiphop aint shit....dissin nas yet keep a blind eye on other shit is funny....like other dude said, this is a hiphop forum, why watse your time here if this place aint for you....and i know you aint a cat to come infest every topic with bullshit but you speaking right now, dissing one of hiphops finest probably mad cuz he dissed some white people.......
truth is music is music and art is art....nas is both....because he is a great....hiphop may be weak right now but its still got its gems
peace
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In my opinion, it is an extremely narcistic attitude and a very, very pretentious base for a statement to argue that something has greater calibre of art and is objectively of higher value when it comes to music. I, actually, feel like slapping such people.
Art is the outcome of a creative process. There's no hierarchy of value implied in it.
Music is as good as it is in reaching what it's supposed to be. Like, a song that is meant to be political, and fails miserably at it, sucks. A song that is supposed to make people laugh, but fails miserably at it, sucks. Yet, neither does a song have to make people laugh nor does it have to be political. Some people prefer funny songs, some political. That is completely subjective.
Ultimately, you can not call a song that excels in featuring great battle rhymes worse than a song that excels in touching people on an emotional level - because both songs are good at what they are supposed to be good at.
I also pity anyone who thinks he can be completely objective towards the whole wide spectre of music, let alone art.
dope post
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Anybody that really respects music can respect music of many genres. How anyone can say "Rock Sucks" or "Hip Hop Sucks" is crazy to me. I mean, I don't listen to Opera music. Nobody I know does. I've never been to an Opera - it's not something that I can relate to at all. But I can absolutely respect the vocalists and the story telling aspect of it. And I can understand that some people out there love it. I can still acknowledge the artistic aspect of it even if it's not my favorite.
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shallow, +1. best posts I've seen in this board damn near ever. guerilla-from-the-mist, rap is not the only real music. Bob Dylan in the 60's was at least as political as PE. he marched with dr.king, sang songs at the same rally he delivered I have a dream at. Dylan played his songs all over the country for poor blacks and rich politicians...dude did all you could politically as an artist, and really did as much for blacks as an artist could...you know alot about hip hop but it undermines your otherwise intelligent presentation of self to say there's nothing valuable or real about rock. there's no need for shallow to leave the forum. but your Politically correct reverse racism is most unwelcome.
jrome, white boy= also, plus one.
and lyrical g, even if he was just talking about eminem when he talked about rap who can blame him? until encore eminem was the most original, unpretentious, funny and unique rapper I've ever come across. I still don't see why you dislike him so much. eminem is devastatingly overwhelmingly talented.
-T
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rock isnt white boy music, it stems directly from blues and jazz which is like all blacks, rock is actually a very "black" art form, i mean the greatest guitarist of all time (imo) is black. also in the 60s blacks and whites (revolutionaries or hippies) stood together to fight for freedom. i mean take two of the biggest concerts woodstock and monterery pop festival, which were rock concerts, and both had a wide variety of races including many blacks.
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you see you speaking some major bullshit there.....you saying all nas shit is garbageis like me saying all rock shit is bullshit white boy music that don't sound good....its wrong....nas is art whether you like it or not....fact is most people cannot do what nas can and same i am sure with what some of these rock cats are doing who are the better ones.....nas speaks on alot of shit, is hella relavant and poetic and portrays his shit in art....there aint no denying this.....i use to get the feeling that you are some pro white/anti black music cat who only likes eminem in hiphop...infact im sure no matter what you say about nas.....eminem is someone you like alot no matter what you will say....its evident by alot of posts you have spoken on eminem in the past....but no i will not be bringing them back up............
now nas is a great and his shit is art...and yes he has some steriotype shit going for him but he goes against the grain with alot of shit aswell....and im sure that alot of these rock cats who are considered great fit many rock steriotypes aswell but they have something which stands out form the rest....you coming in here speaking like hiphop aint shit....dissin nas yet keep a blind eye on other shit is funny....like other dude said, this is a hiphop forum, why watse your time here if this place aint for you....and i know you aint a cat to come infest every topic with bullshit but you speaking right now, dissing one of hiphops finest probably mad cuz he dissed some white people.......
truth is music is music and art is art....nas is both....because he is a great....hiphop may be weak right now but its still got its gems
peace
I never meant to imply that Nas is not art (me drawing stick figures is art, it's just not good art). I meant Nas is not that good in the grand scheme of things. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. He's no worse than Eminem and I think a little better. My favourite rapper is Tupac and my favourite rap group is P.E., so I don't know how I could be pro a white/anti black music fan.
I just happen to think Nas is a pretentious idiot who speaks foolishly about many topics, sacrifices the poetry and the meaning of a song with using too many words to finish a rhyme, is too often driven by ego and forced to promote himself in his art too much, and has to dumb down his words because he thinks people won't understand him unless he's very literal.
I think he's a great rhymer with a lot of talent and skill. I think he flows great, and I know I can't do that like he does but I can't sing like Celine Dion either, that doesn't mean I like the songs she sings or how she sings them. I don't hate all of Nas's songs; 2nd Childhood and Dance are great in my opinion. Even most of the songs that I think aren't that good I usually find entertaining. But being entertaining and being very good or great don't go hand in and with me. I'm a huge fan of Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal films and I praise them all the time but if someone seriously told me they a great artistic films I'd laugh. I think Tim Burton can direct some great visuals but I find very few of his films to be any good. I enjoy watching scenes from Batman but I don't think the film is very good.
In my opinion, it is an extremely narcistic attitude and a very, very pretentious base for a statement to argue that something has greater calibre of art and is objectively of higher value when it comes to music. I, actually, feel like slapping such people.
Art is the outcome of a creative process. There's no hierarchy of value implied in it.
Music is as good as it is in reaching what it's supposed to be. Like, a song that is meant to be political, and fails miserably at it, sucks. A song that is supposed to make people laugh, but fails miserably at it, sucks. Yet, neither does a song have to make people laugh nor does it have to be political. Some people prefer funny songs, some political. That is completely subjective.
Ultimately, you can not call a song that excels in featuring great battle rhymes worse than a song that excels in touching people on an emotional level - because both songs are good at what they are supposed to be good at.
I also pity anyone who thinks he can be completely objective towards the whole wide spectre of music, let alone art.
You feel this way about only music? What about films? Is King of New York as high a calibre film as Goodfellas or Godfather? Or is it the same because they're both art? If one thing is better than another doesn't that make it higher art than the other?
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Godfather can be considered better than King of New York because they aren't completely different genres or so I assume (haven't seen the latter).
But, for instance I don't know why exactly, but many people consider Dumb and Dumber a very, very hilarious movie. So it's just as good in filling its purpose.
Of course, Godfather can still be considered more "arty" for obvious reasons, as a movie like this naturally comes along in a more artful manner.
For movies it is a little different though. As they are more similiar even within different genres than music. Music can be something that completely differs from each other, also, people have different ears for it. Like, for instance, my homies who don't really listen to rap, can't grasp what I find so great about a certain flow or delivery. To them it's all the same, the beat if pretty much everything. They don't have that rap-loving ear that I have. I on the other hand don't have a ear for hardcore heavy metal. To me it's just annoying noise. But I would never go as far as saying Hiphop is superior art compared to that.
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Godfather can be considered better than King of New York because they aren't completely different genres or so I assume (haven't seen the latter).
But, for instance I don't know why exactly, but many people consider Dumb and Dumber a very, very hilarious movie. So it's just as good in filling its purpose.
Of course, Godfather can still be considered more "arty" for obvious reasons, as a movie like this naturally comes along in a more artful manner.
For movies it is a little different though. As they are more similiar even within different genres than music. Music can be something that completely differs from each other, also, people have different ears for it. Like, for instance, my homies who don't really listen to rap, can't grasp what I find so great about a certain flow or delivery. To them it's all the same, the beat if pretty much everything. They don't have that rap-loving ear that I have. I on the other hand don't have a ear for hardcore heavy metal. To me it's just annoying noise. But I would never go as far as saying Hiphop is superior art compared to that.
I wasn't generalizing hip hop, and I wasn't judging it as an outsider. A great portion of my cd colection is still hip hop. I'm not judging the musical side of hip hop either. We were talking about lyrics, and in that case I don't see how you cannot compare Nas and Dylan. If people think Nas is better then that's fine. To each his own. I explained why I dislike much of the lyricism in hip hop. I called it less of an art because of the presentation. Could I be wrong? Sure. But it will always sound silly to me when an artist promotes himself the person in a serious song. If it's comedy then it's fine, but I can't imagine Scorsese placing shots of himself accomplishing something inbetween shots of a film like Raging Bull, or Marlon Brando setting up his scenes in Streetcar with "aaahhhhhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeaaaahhhhhh, Here's big Mar with some mo' fiyahh fo dat ass. Stellaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!". It would just be too hard for me to take it seriously. It detracts from the art and focuses on the promotion. Imagine a film like Mystic River spending 5 minutes on a scene between characters talking about how great of a director Clint Eastwood while in character during the film, just because Clint was directing and wanted to let people know he's the man. That's how feel when I hear a lopt of rappers.
I also hate it when they defend their content by using violent films as an example but never come out an say "we are playing characters". They insist on it being a reality far too often. I also hate little stupid similes that pop in to finish rhymes but take away from the tone. Like Cormega's Fallen Soldiers. A great song with a great tone but a stupid simile that always throws me off:
What, I'ma live for my niggas
I'ma shine for my niggas
How can I express the sorrow, I learn to dread tomorrow
Had to see my nigga Yammy dead, but he can rest with honor
Cuz he was reppin on his quest for dollars
I was the one who took him Uptown, with someone into measure powder
I treasure our memories together, hard to believe
I'ma never see you again, but I'ma make you breathin thru pen
So everyone can see you my friend, in fly sneakers again
Life is sweet and kinda deep when it ends
Still remember you, beefin over bullshit calls at basketball games cheatin
Yo, my cipher ain't complete, I'm sorry for that argument we had
On twelth street over a sale, knowing well that you was seekin dough aswell
What we made up the same night
And thru the years remained tight, the same love
The same drugs rockin the same Nikes
Now that you gone, I'm here to reppin your name right, yo
Chorus [Cormega]
Did you ever lose a nigga you love?
Then ask yourself is there a heaven for thugs?
And will you be forgiven when your spirit is judged
This song is dedicated to my niggas above
Did you ever lose a nigga you love?
Then ask yourself is there a heaven for thugs?
And will you be forgiven when your spirit is judged
This song is dedicated to my niggas above
[Cormega]
And to my cousin Bam
You my fuckin man, I find it hard to understand
You gone, you physical form is dormant
I'm lost like the Bulls without Jordan
Tell my man J.B. from Edgemere I said peace
Son, I live a thug life, I clutch mics
With the same intensity that I used to crush white
G-Fresh was at your funeral, son I felt it
And if I start cryin when I rhyme I can't help it
Analyze, never think I forgot you, you my heart
And even death can't keep the two of us apart
From day one, watchin cartoons and shootin playguns
Who ever thought we see this day come
Tell my moms I miss her, give her a kiss and tell her
That her younger child done her proud
I know she heard about me runnin wild
Ya'll gone now, but livin in my memory
Fallen soldiers, sleepin in serenity
P.S. King of NY and Godfather are both mob films which is why I mentioned them. And I think opinions can be stronger than others if you know enough of the medium. People that would call Dumb and Dumber a better film than Godfather are like people that would call DaVinci Code a better book than War and Piece, while experts in either genre (for the record I am not an expert) who study film and literature will laugh and tell you exactly why both GF and W&P are superior. I know philosophically you can argue the merit of opinion, but you can philosophically argue gravity and the theories behind it. If you have no evidence to explain why the current theory is dead wrong then you can't simply say "well you can't 100% prove it and I disagree. I think we stay grounded on the earth because God wants us to, and that's that". But you can very well believe that just like you can believe a crayon coloured portrait of a stick figure is better than the Mona Lisa, but no one will take you seriously, and for good reason.
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wasn't generalizing hip hop, and I wasn't judging it as an outsider. A great portion of my cd colection is still hip hop. I'm not judging the musical side of hip hop either. We were talking about lyrics, and in that case I don't see how you cannot compare Nas and Dylan. If people think Nas is better then that's fine. To each his own. I explained why I dislike much of the lyricism in hip hop. I called it less of an art because of the presentation. Could I be wrong? Sure. But it will always sound silly to me when an artist promotes himself the person in a serious song. If it's comedy then it's fine, but I can't imagine Scorsese placing shots of himself accomplishing something inbetween shots of a film like Raging Bull, or Marlon Brando setting up his scenes in Streetcar with "aaahhhhhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeaaaahhhhhh, Here's big Mar with some mo' fiyahh fo dat ass. Stellaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!". It would just be too hard for me to take it seriously. It detracts from the art and focuses on the promotion. Imagine a film like Mystic River spending 5 minutes on a scene between characters talking about how great of a director Clint Eastwood while in character during the film, just because Clint was directing and wanted to let people know he's the man. That's how feel when I hear a lopt of rappers. -Shallow
FANTASTIC POINT, I've often felt the same way about alot of rap for years. That's kinda why I like game though, he does it to the point of self satire. like he's aware of the ridiculous aspects of hip hop and uses them to a sarcastic but still artistic extent...he's like a personification of everything wrong and right in the hip hop game(street enough to get street cred but too street to avoid beef dig?). just a thought. either way, shallow, great post. I hope to see you around more. +1
-T
-T
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wasn't generalizing hip hop, and I wasn't judging it as an outsider. A great portion of my cd colection is still hip hop. I'm not judging the musical side of hip hop either. We were talking about lyrics, and in that case I don't see how you cannot compare Nas and Dylan. If people think Nas is better then that's fine. To each his own. I explained why I dislike much of the lyricism in hip hop. I called it less of an art because of the presentation. Could I be wrong? Sure. But it will always sound silly to me when an artist promotes himself the person in a serious song. If it's comedy then it's fine, but I can't imagine Scorsese placing shots of himself accomplishing something inbetween shots of a film like Raging Bull, or Marlon Brando setting up his scenes in Streetcar with "aaahhhhhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeaaaahhhhhh, Here's big Mar with some mo' fiyahh fo dat ass. Stellaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!". It would just be too hard for me to take it seriously. It detracts from the art and focuses on the promotion. Imagine a film like Mystic River spending 5 minutes on a scene between characters talking about how great of a director Clint Eastwood while in character during the film, just because Clint was directing and wanted to let people know he's the man. That's how feel when I hear a lopt of rappers. -Shallow
FANTASTIC POINT, I've often felt the same way about alot of rap for years. That's kinda why I like game though, he does it to the point of self satire. like he's aware of the ridiculous aspects of hip hop and uses them to a sarcastic but still artistic extent...he's like a personification of everything wrong and right in the hip hop game(street enough to get street cred but too street to avoid beef dig?). just a thought. either way, shallow, great post. I hope to see you around more. +1
-T
-T
I always like that stuff when done in satire. Be it song, or film.
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you listen to Game?
-T
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you listen to Game?
-T
Not enough to notice that. I'll take a listen though..
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well, some people may argue that he doesn't do it intentionally. But I think he does.
-T
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Everybody thinks it's there duty to run and defend Rock music whenever anybody says they don't like it. And this is supposed to be a hip-hop forum. I know they don't defend hip-hop like this on Rock music forums.
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Everybody thinks it's there duty to run and defend Rock music whenever anybody says they don't like it. And this is supposed to be a hip-hop forum. I know they don't defend hip-hop like this on Rock music forums.
You didn't just say you didn't like it. You had to ignorantly bash it. I know you only did it to be funny and get a rise out of people but some people for some odd reason take you seriously every once in a while. I know the majority of your posts are intended to be stupid and I usually leave you alone but when others think you're serious with your stupid backhanded insults I respond to those people.
For the record I have often defended hip hop on many rock discussion boards and on the Springsteen board I frequent. People here don't defend rock for the sake of rock, or being white. They just get annoyed with your complete waste of time comments and lash out at you. Try being 100% genuine and reasonble for a change and you'll see a great difference in how people respond to you.
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Everybody thinks it's there duty to run and defend Rock music whenever anybody says they don't like it. And this is supposed to be a hip-hop forum. I know they don't defend hip-hop like this on Rock music forums.
You ever even been to any rock forums? Or general music forums? How you even gonna speak on it?
Just shut up now, seriously just shut the fuck up. You're always going to be a pathetic cracker and I'm still going to kill you when the revolution starts. Allah doesn't want me to live in "submission to the creator" with you; Allah wants me to grab the chopper and empty the clip in your direction.
guerilla-from-the-mist, rap is not the only real music. Bob Dylan in the 60's was at least as political as PE. he marched with dr.king, sang songs at the same rally he delivered I have a dream at.
That's not what I said, fag boy. Get off Shallow's dick now. He's saying precisely the opposite of what your stupid ass thought I said.
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for one, infinite is retarded and ive learned to try and ignore him.
more things i dont like about hip hop: i hate how a rapper will always tell you how he will tell you something like "ima teach you guys" or "ima drop knowledge" but never do. also i hate how they will have 1 fragment out of nowhere with some "knowledge" that has nothing to do with the song so they could, i dunno, seem smarter.
also why is everyone like, this is a hip hop forum leave, dude, its the outbound, its not just for east and south rap, its for all kinds of music, plus most of us have been here for years, and some of us grew.
btw, bill maher's thoughts
https://www.youtube.com/v/6pm2wTGgYAw
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for one, infinite is retarded and ive learned to try and ignore him.
more things i dont like about hip hop: i hate how a rapper will always tell you how he will tell you something like "ima teach you guys" or "ima drop knowledge" but never do. also i hate how they will have 1 fragment out of nowhere with some "knowledge" that has nothing to do with the song so they could, i dunno, seem smarter.
also why is everyone like, this is a hip hop forum leave, dude, its the outbound, its not just for east and south rap, its for all kinds of music, plus most of us have been here for years, and some of us grew.
btw, bill maher's thoughts
http://www.youtube.com/v/6pm2wTGgYAw
Let me fix that for you brother.
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I like how everybody is hating on hiphop-artists for being arrogant, yet is an arrogant prick himfuckingself. "Some of us grew"...
Bragging is a part of rap. That's a fact. At least they ain't hypocrites.. you can be sure a lot of artists are just as cocky if not more in real life. So ultimately your main problem with rap is that you often hear men being full of themselves. You might not listen to yourself when you talk then. Would explain a lot, too.
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I like how everybody is hating on hiphop-artists for being arrogant, yet is an arrogant prick himfuckingself. "Some of us grew"...
Bragging is a part of rap. That's a fact. At least they ain't hypocrites.. you can be sure a lot of artists are just as cocky if not more in real life. So ultimately your main problem with rap is that you often hear men being full of themselves. You might not listen to yourself when you talk then. Would explain a lot, too.
Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
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Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that songwriting and composing your own music has pretty much dissolved, all that fake shit you're talking about is alive and well in rock music. All they sing about is sad girls, a girl that made him sad, sadness, his anger at mom and dad paying his bills, and wannabe protest music, like RATM if they wanna rage then it's time to donate all their millions to the communist party otherwise it's just feeding the beast.
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I think the topic of this thread has been discussed. Mods please lock this before more nonsense is brought up in here.
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Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that songwriting and composing your own music has pretty much dissolved, all that fake shit you're talking about is alive and well in rock music. All they sing about is sad girls, a girl that made him sad, sadness, his anger at mom and dad paying his bills, and wannabe protest music, like RATM if they wanna rage then it's time to donate all their millions to the communist party otherwise it's just feeding the beast.
I just mentioned they were fake. I wasn't insulting them for it, nor have I stated rock is filled with "real" individuals. I could care less what kind of a human being an artist is as long as I like the art.
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I like how everybody is hating on hiphop-artists for being arrogant, yet is an arrogant prick himfuckingself. "Some of us grew"...
Bragging is a part of rap. That's a fact. At least they ain't hypocrites.. you can be sure a lot of artists are just as cocky if not more in real life. So ultimately your main problem with rap is that you often hear men being full of themselves. You might not listen to yourself when you talk then. Would explain a lot, too.
Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Who gives a fuck? It's called ENTERTAINMENT, bitch. Of course rappers haven't killed hundreds of people in real life like they brag in their songs. The only nigga alive who's killed that many muh'fuckas is ME; of course, most of the ones I killed were devils in which case they deserved it.
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I like how everybody is hating on hiphop-artists for being arrogant, yet is an arrogant prick himfuckingself. "Some of us grew"...
Bragging is a part of rap. That's a fact. At least they ain't hypocrites.. you can be sure a lot of artists are just as cocky if not more in real life. So ultimately your main problem with rap is that you often hear men being full of themselves. You might not listen to yourself when you talk then. Would explain a lot, too.
Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Who gives a fuck? It's called ENTERTAINMENT, bitch. Of course rappers haven't killed hundreds of people in real life like they brag in their songs. The only nigga alive who's killed that many muh'fuckas is ME; of course, most of the ones I killed were devils in which case they deserved it.
Who gives a fuck? Not me, as Isaid in the post just above yours;
Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Everyone seems to have forgotten that songwriting and composing your own music has pretty much dissolved, all that fake shit you're talking about is alive and well in rock music. All they sing about is sad girls, a girl that made him sad, sadness, his anger at mom and dad paying his bills, and wannabe protest music, like RATM if they wanna rage then it's time to donate all their millions to the communist party otherwise it's just feeding the beast.
I just mentioned they were fake. I wasn't insulting them for it, nor have I stated rock is filled with "real" individuals. I could care less what kind of a human being an artist is as long as I like the art.
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I like how everybody is hating on hiphop-artists for being arrogant, yet is an arrogant prick himfuckingself. "Some of us grew"...
Bragging is a part of rap. That's a fact. At least they ain't hypocrites.. you can be sure a lot of artists are just as cocky if not more in real life. So ultimately your main problem with rap is that you often hear men being full of themselves. You might not listen to yourself when you talk then. Would explain a lot, too.
Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Lol. Yes, because you are supposed to take their word. Like when Eminem (I take him as an example, as so did you) goes for lyrics like
"Warning, this shit gonna be rated R, restricted.
You see this bullet hole in my neck?
/It's self-inflicted/
Doctor slapped my momma/
bitch you got a sick kid/
Arrested, molested myself and got convicted."
it's obviously not meant to be a report of something that actually happened like this.
Musicians tell STORIES all the damn time. In the song "Jolene" the singer of the White Stripes makes a fucking FAGGOT out of himself, for instance.
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I like how everybody is hating on hiphop-artists for being arrogant, yet is an arrogant prick himfuckingself. "Some of us grew"...
Bragging is a part of rap. That's a fact. At least they ain't hypocrites.. you can be sure a lot of artists are just as cocky if not more in real life. So ultimately your main problem with rap is that you often hear men being full of themselves. You might not listen to yourself when you talk then. Would explain a lot, too.
Of course they're hypocrites. They brag about shit they aren't doing and most likely never did. Most of these gangster rappers were losers in real life, on the outside looking in,and they get famous taking credit for someone else's lifestyle. They just take the gang stories of real thugs and speak about them in the first person. I've found it very rare to see a real hard core thug brag about what he's done. Most of the guys bragging are the ones that hang around him and really don't do shit when he isn't around. And the rappers I know here are often the softest guys with the biggest mouths and they all rap about killing. Maybe not every single rapper is a fraud but I'll bet if you go to most their hoods and ask about how they were most people that know them will tell you exactly what I saiid.
Lol. Yes, because you are supposed to take their word. Like when Eminem (I take him as an example, as so did you) goes for lyrics like
"Warning, this shit gonna be rated R, restricted.
You see this bullet hole in my neck?
/It's self-inflicted/
Doctor slapped my momma/
bitch you got a sick kid/
Arrested, molested myself and got convicted."
it's obviously not meant to be a report of something that actually happened like this.
Musicians tell STORIES all the damn time. In the song "Jolene" the singer of the White Stripes makes a fucking FAGGOT out of himself, for instance.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but you can't deny that these thug rappers claim what they say in records is what really happened to them in the streets far more than they say it's fiction.
P.S. Jolene is a cover of an old Dolly Parton song (in case you didn't know, which you very well may have)
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Yes I knew that but that doesn't really change a lot. Anyways, my problem is, if a rapper talks about something that happened, it's "just literal", if he talks about something that didn't happen, he's a liar, a fake, a hypocrite, a bitch nigga. If a rock dude talks about something that didn't happen it's figuratively speaking, excellent use of methaphors opening doors for various interpretations etc... Get outta here.
I am not argueing that you have to enjoy rap as much as rock, LOL. Jesus. But to call rock as a genre flat out "better" and superior, while subtly insulting me as a rap-dude in his twenties and calling me a dumbass, is not something I'll let fly with a smile.
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Yes I knew that but that doesn't really change a lot. Anyways, my problem is, if a rapper talks about something that happened, it's "just literal", if he talks about something that didn't happen, he's a liar, a fake, a hypocrite, a bitch nigga. If a rock dude talks about something that didn't happen it's figuratively speaking, excellent use of methaphors opening doors for various interpretations etc... Get outta here.
I am not argueing that you have to enjoy rap as much as rock, LOL. Jesus. But to call rock as a genre flat out "better" and superior, while subtly insulting me as a rap-dude in his twenties and calling me a dumbass, is not something I'll let fly with a smile.
What are you talking about? I never said rappers have to be truthful. It would help a great deal if they did admit they write stories and not focus on trying to maintain credibility. I think it would greatly improve the lyrics. But I never said they had to do anything. I just pointed out how rap works by rap standards. They call themselves fake. A rapper puts on the mask when they talk about their raps. Cam Ron in that O'reilly video calls himself an author while Dash brings up hollywood as an example, then Cam calls himself a reporter while saying you can't blame him for reporting what really happens. There is no consistency. I could care less what kind of a show they want to put on but don't blame me for noticing.
I never called you or anyone else an idiot for liking rap. The closest I came was saying Nas dumbs down his songs and he does with songs like I Gave You Power. He obviously thinks a song like that will go over many of his fan's heads. That has nothing to do with what I think of your intelligence.
I don't get it, was I confusing you, or did your own ignorance skim through my posts and just assume what I meant?
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Don't act like you're not guilty of what I accused you of. Nobody will believe you.
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Don't act like you're not guilty of what I accused you of. Nobody will believe you.
So go and show me then. Show where and how I ever attacked someone's intelligence for liking rap? I thought you were an evidenced based guy, not a speculator. You'll have an easier time proving the existence of Jesus Christ as a supernatural being than you will trying to prove I think people are stupid becuse they like rap, because there is no evidence. Just you and your assumptions. If you did have anything to go by other than your speculation you would have used that in your post.
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I don't see how I'm on someone's dick cause I agree with them. Could people say you're on Allah's dick?
white boy, what was your sn before?
sounds like we had a similar musical interest shifting experience.
-T
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lol its funny to see so many people bring up dicks in arguments when they on the losing side, get those dicks outta your mouths (no homo) :-\
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Music needs Rage right now. Most people in the industry are too materilistic an PUSSY to get political. the battle for los angeles is still one of my faovrites cover to cover.
ya'll remember when they played in L.A. outside of the political convention? who in the fuck else besides maybe Mos Def who do that?
damn...
i really hate politics in music, but i love Rage to the death. these guys are a lil too angry, but they have PASSION for their music and that's what i like.
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Music needs Rage right now. Most people in the industry are too materilistic an PUSSY to get political.
Come on man. Being political doesn't take balls. It takes a complete misunderstanding of what music is about to get political. There's no balls involved when 2/3rds (on a good day) of the country disagrees with the current administration, and likely a full 90% of rock music's core demographic disagrees with the administration and you make a political record. It would take balls to make a political record that was pro-Bush at this point, not anti-Bush.... it's the easiest, safest way to make money in rock music right now.
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Oh, and here's my thoughts about the rest of what was said on this thread.
Standard disclaimer: of course there are bright spots in all genres of music. For instance, while I generally think most rock sucks, Chris Cornell is still making talented music (to make it relevant to this thread). Most of the bands that are really making good, strong music right now in rock have been around since the time of Cobain, but there are always fresh acts that pop up and take rock in nice directions. For instance "The Black Parade" may be hella overplayed but the fact is it's a fucking fantastic song. Franz Ferdinand are great, in my opinoin. the White stripes are great, in my opinion.
Most all music is derivative, and most all new rock was born out of people growing up listening to Kurt Cobain, misinterpreting his brand of Rock, and making shitty pussy music as a result. Shit like that song "I'm looking through the glass" blah blah blah is a perfect example. Just some guy bitching and whining about how some girl broke his heart and he's the only one that that ever happened to, apparently. It's shallow, pretentious music that says nothing important and is almost wholely a negative experience.
If you look @ what Kurt Cobain did, the guy was truly GREAT. His music was born out of the Beatles, and shared the passion and creativity of their brand of rock, 30 years earlier. He had tons of other influences like everybody does, but even his most 'serious' songs he never took seriously. He would write poems then at the last minute randomly scramble the lines around and release it like that. While the lyrics are interesting and do make good points, ultimately he projected a mood and a passion in his music, nothing was meant to be deep or a learning experience, it was all about being honest and portraying honest emotions that men his age went through: namely, Anger, Pain, Joy, Sorrow, Elation, etc. Even songs meant to sound subdued like "Lithium" are burning with energy.
So, some kid hears kurt go "I'm so happy, cuz today I shaved my head", misses the whole fucking vibe of the music, and writes some depressing shit about how horrible his life is. That wasn't what Kurt was writing about... even songs like "Dumb" had energy and passion in them, not just negativity.
I blame the whole shitty mess on a missinterpretation of Kurt's music. Seriously.
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Most rap doesn't do it for me anymore. Way too much hate on females for my taste. The only rap I can really get into is intellectually 'happy' rap like something Common would do, or ghetto funny shit like 3 6 mafia would do, or totally posing almost theatre rap like Snoop or Ice Cube or somebody would do. "3 little crips" or something like that off his last album is great because he's basically acting, it's theatre, it's like watching Rocky or Die Hard or some shit. Anybody that actually takes theirselves seriously, though, I can't listen to.
Country Music, to me, is easily the most true, honest music around today. Most of the bands and performers sing about common everyday things that everybody goes through, and it isn't done with any malice, most of it is meant to be hopeful and positive, and I relate much more to it. I also of course listen to a ton of classic rock and roll, best, greatest music ever made.
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Oh, and here's my thoughts about the rest of what was said on this thread.
Standard disclaimer: of course there are bright spots in all genres of music. For instance, while I generally think most rock sucks, Chris Cornell is still making talented music (to make it relevant to this thread). Most of the bands that are really making good, strong music right now in rock have been around since the time of Cobain, but there are always fresh acts that pop up and take rock in nice directions. For instance "The Black Parade" may be hella overplayed but the fact is it's a fucking fantastic song. Franz Ferdinand are great, in my opinoin. the White stripes are great, in my opinion.
Most all music is derivative, and most all new rock was born out of people growing up listening to Kurt Cobain, misinterpreting his brand of Rock, and making shitty pussy music as a result. Shit like that song "I'm looking through the glass" blah blah blah is a perfect example. Just some guy bitching and whining about how some girl broke his heart and he's the only one that that ever happened to, apparently. It's shallow, pretentious music that says nothing important and is almost wholely a negative experience.
If you look @ what Kurt Cobain did, the guy was truly GREAT. His music was born out of the Beatles, and shared the passion and creativity of their brand of rock, 30 years earlier. He had tons of other influences like everybody does, but even his most 'serious' songs he never took seriously. He would write poems then at the last minute randomly scramble the lines around and release it like that. While the lyrics are interesting and do make good points, ultimately he projected a mood and a passion in his music, nothing was meant to be deep or a learning experience, it was all about being honest and portraying honest emotions that men his age went through: namely, Anger, Pain, Joy, Sorrow, Elation, etc. Even songs meant to sound subdued like "Lithium" are burning with energy.
So, some kid hears kurt go "I'm so happy, cuz today I shaved my head", misses the whole fucking vibe of the music, and writes some depressing shit about how horrible his life is. That wasn't what Kurt was writing about... even songs like "Dumb" had energy and passion in them, not just negativity.
I blame the whole shitty mess on a missinterpretation of Kurt's music. Seriously.
----------------------------------------
Most rap doesn't do it for me anymore. Way too much hate on females for my taste. The only rap I can really get into is intellectually 'happy' rap like something Common would do, or ghetto funny shit like 3 6 mafia would do, or totally posing almost theatre rap like Snoop or Ice Cube or somebody would do. "3 little crips" or something like that off his last album is great because he's basically acting, it's theatre, it's like watching Rocky or Die Hard or some shit. Anybody that actually takes theirselves seriously, though, I can't listen to.
Country Music, to me, is easily the most true, honest music around today. Most of the bands and performers sing about common everyday things that everybody goes through, and it isn't done with any malice, most of it is meant to be hopeful and positive, and I relate much more to it. I also of course listen to a ton of classic rock and roll, best, greatest music ever made.
I've never said this before but I think you may understand when I say this, I also feel classic rock is the greatest music ever made but I feel like that's why I like G funk so much because on a sonic level it as musical and appealing to the ear as really well put together classic rock like floyd,zeppelin and beatles. I'd say the same about alot of funk in the 70's like parliament, curtis mayfield, sly and the family stone.
also, I totally agree with your thoughts on modern rockers misinterpreting Cobain. I've been a huge nirvana fan for years, 'in utero' is gorgeous to me and I've always really dug the influence had on nirvana.
-T