West Coast Connection Forum

Lifestyle => Tha G-Spot => Topic started by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 12:14:19 AM

Title: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 12:14:19 AM
I dont even know why I'm asking dubcc for any fuckin advice, but im at my wits end with this shit. this girl i met is great all around. great looks ( reminds me of beyonce), great body, i can open up with her more than any other woman ive ever been involved with on a mental level. only problem is i found out she has a 3 year old son. ive talked to her about it and she doesn't really want me to be involved with the kid (im not ready for anything liek that at this stage in my life anyways) but the whole situation is just something new to me. i feel bad because of her situation and she's really into me but im at a complete loss on whether i should pursue a relationship or not. should i give it a shot or leave her alone for good because i dont wanna drag this on and hurt her.

ive asked others that are close with me on what i should do, but honestly, their advice isn't sitting well with me. some tell me to just stop answering her calls and hanging out with her while others tell me to go ahead and see what happens. i dont wanna completely ignore her because i enjoy talking to her and spending time with her which is the main reason im in this dilemma. if it was just some dumb hoodrat then i wouldnt give a shit, but shes not.

the only reason im coming here with the situation is to get some more opinions and feedback eventhough it probably wont help. anyways, any serious input would be nice. this entire situation has been torturing me. maybe im just being a pussy, but usually i can dump a girl and go about my business not giving a fuck, but this one is different.

anyways, ill appreciate the opinions and advice.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: ecrazy on February 28, 2007, 12:20:27 AM
keep doing what you have been doing, everything should progress naturally, your already talking to her and liking it, just keep doing it, keep progressing, fuck what everyone else says, your just doing what you have been doing since the beginning.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Teddy Roosevelt on February 28, 2007, 12:21:11 AM
It seems you really like the girl, but I'm a little confused as to what the problem is. If you like each other and she isn't presssuring you about her kid, then you should at least give it a shot and see what happens. If she's as nice as you describe her she definatly seem worth the try. In the end if your not paying to help her get by, then you don't have much to lose compared to if you didn't do anything at all.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Floydness on February 28, 2007, 12:24:57 AM
You should follow your heart, if you feel good with this girl and you two have a good connection like no other girl had with you than you shouldnt let her son be the only thing standing in your way. Besides, your not going to be the kids new daddy... I say go for it and whatever happens happens.. but you shouldnt ditch her if you like the girl. Give it a shot and good luck... :)
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: reguLAtor on February 28, 2007, 12:24:57 AM
You already sound like you know what you want to do homie.  You don't need anyone's approval to do it.  It's not a big deal until you make it a big deal, so just roll with it and do what you think is right.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: ecrazy on February 28, 2007, 12:28:13 AM
I know you have that "Leykes 101" Mentality thats tearing you, well that dude's a fuckup himself, he dont know what he's talking about, he's just enteraining, no one knows until they attempt it. so do it, Nike
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 12:30:12 AM
it may be stupid, but the idea of being with a woman that has a kid is just kinda awkward. its not that i give a fuck what anyone thinks about me for prusuing a woman with a kid, im just worried about what the future holds. i could see myself being with her long term (if not i wouldnt be in this predicament) and if the relationship progresses to that level, i know the whole dynamics with the kid are gonna change and she may want me to be involved with him. i just dont see myself being prepared with a situation like that for another 5-10 years once my career is finally off the ground.

honestly, i dunno where my head is at. my mind is moving at a million miles a minute. i swear only a woman can do this to me this is why for so long ive tried not to get involved with a woman unless it was strictly physical lol.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Teddy Roosevelt on February 28, 2007, 12:32:00 AM
this is why for so long ive tried not to get involved with a woman unless it was strictly physical lol.
If only. :(
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 12:36:13 AM
I know you have that "Leykes 101" Mentality thats tearing you, well that dude's a fuckup himself, he dont know what he's talking about, he's just enteraining, no one knows until they attempt it. so do it, Nike
nah, that aint even a factor. i listen to that shit on the way home for pure entertainment.

its just a touchy situation and im trying not to be selfish. after talking to her, she's had a lot of bad situations when its come to men (thats one reason she's a single mother) and i just dont wanna add to any pain she's already had.

just wanna thank everyone again for the advice though. i really appreciate it.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: J @ M @ L on February 28, 2007, 12:40:58 AM
So your main concern is you having to be involved with the kid in the future? What exactly do you mean when you say she might want you to be involved with him? She's not gonna expect you to assume the father role and take care of the kid, so what do you think she is gonna want?
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 12:49:36 AM
she's saying that now, but who knows what the future holds and whether she'll change her mind or not. regardless, the kid is naturally a very important part of her life so i dont see how i would not build a relationship with him since im around his mom all the time. i dont want the kid to get attached to me and then if things dont work out, im gone. ive seen how that affects a kid when different men or women are in and out of their lives due to relationships with their parents and it only fucks them up.

so basically the thing that's bothering me is that selfishly i wanna be with this girl, but unselfishly i dont wanna hurt anybody in the event that things just dont work out.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: J @ M @ L on February 28, 2007, 12:53:42 AM
That's a pretty tough situation... I guess it all depends on how you're viewing the potential of the relationship... if you truly believe that there's potential for her to be wifey then I'd say give it a shot, if shit doesn't work out then oh well, you didn't do anything fucked up, your intentions were good, and shit just happened not to work out.. which is just a part of life.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Chief on February 28, 2007, 01:10:19 AM
man you dont know what the future holds... live for the moment.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Soulful on February 28, 2007, 02:46:34 AM
thats nice of you thinkin about the kids feelings as well..i cant tell u what to do really. if i was in love with her and felt i really found someone special i would give it a shot, good luck bro
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: STILLDRE IS THE GODFATHER on February 28, 2007, 03:57:03 AM
im not very good with advice i cant hold a relationship longer than a few months but just a few question to try and help you  if you like her then it doesnt matter she has a kid but if her having a kid puts you off her then you need to make a decision do you like /love her that much

just ask yourself these question

can you see a future with you and her and the kid or just you and her

could you raise/ treat the kid as he was you own

ive never been in a situation like this gotta be hard man REMEMBER THIS I LIVE MY THIS SAYING if all the advice gets you more confused listen to your self


Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: JMan on February 28, 2007, 05:31:29 AM
Ive never been in the situation like yours, but i have fucked a bird whos had a kid and that was pretty wierd to tell the truth.. end of the day i guess is do you see yourself with her in a long run? hard question to ask yourself when youve got feelings for someone but remember it isnt just you n her, child will always get pirority.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Lake Titicaca on February 28, 2007, 08:36:48 AM
NO
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Low Key on February 28, 2007, 10:39:38 AM
I know a couple girls with kids, and given the opportunity, I would go out with them only because I have known them both before they had their kids and they are both cool females.

If you want to date the girl, go right ahead, but be prepared to get to know her REAL well before you get into anything serious. You don't need a psycho bitch with a kid on your back. And also be prepared to make your schedule around the child.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: QuietTruth on February 28, 2007, 11:56:50 AM
she's saying that now, but who knows what the future holds and whether she'll change her mind or not. regardless, the kid is naturally a very important part of her life so i dont see how i would not build a relationship with him since im around his mom all the time. i dont want the kid to get attached to me and then if things dont work out, im gone. ive seen how that affects a kid when different men or women are in and out of their lives due to relationships with their parents and it only fucks them up.

so basically the thing that's bothering me is that selfishly i wanna be with this girl, but unselfishly i dont wanna hurt anybody in the event that things just dont work out.

Yeah but who know's where your mind will be at in the future?

Ya'll just starting out now word? And she doesn't want you involved wit the kid and you don't wanna be involved wit the kid, at this point....BUT since you keep sayin' how she might change in the future about gettin' with this kid maybe you might change too, word?

You never know.

Course, we all say we aren't ready for something at the moment, never know what the future holds though. At any time along the road and ya'll are really close with each other, maybe you might feel like you could get involved with this kid. Who the fuck knows though. Just go for it man. Do what chu feel.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on February 28, 2007, 12:01:27 PM
You need to learn to go based on instincts and then everything will fall into place. You don't need to know how it will happen, just that it eventually will...Not as tough as your mind is making it out to be...PeACe
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: ABN on February 28, 2007, 12:18:38 PM
iīve done it and itīs hard. this was like a year ago and before that iīve always said that i would never do it and after it iīve also said that iīm not gonna do it again. but the thing is that her kid was around a lot so i got a little attached coz the kid was just adorable and thatīs what made it fucked up when we parted ways coz her daughter doesnīt understand why iīm not around no more and i really like the kid. but i canīt see myself dating someone with a kid again coz itīs extremely easy to get attached to their kids and vice versa. and if you got emotionally attached like that you start to take care of the kid like itīs your own+spending a lot of money and shit like that. but i say that you should give it a shot but if itīs not working out then get the fuck out of the relationship ASAP.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: QuietTruth on February 28, 2007, 12:21:25 PM
^ Yeah, that's hard. That's something you don't want to do. And it's shocking that this chick doesn't want you to get involed, Sik. I guess it's a good thang though.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 02:03:26 PM
iīve done it and itīs hard. this was like a year ago and before that iīve always said that i would never do it and after it iīve also said that iīm not gonna do it again. but the thing is that her kid was around a lot so i got a little attached coz the kid was just adorable and thatīs what made it fucked up when we parted ways coz her daughter doesnīt understand why iīm not around no more and i really like the kid. but i canīt see myself dating someone with a kid again coz itīs extremely easy to get attached to their kids and vice versa. and if you got emotionally attached like that you start to take care of the kid like itīs your own+spending a lot of money and shit like that. but i say that you should give it a shot but if itīs not working out then get the fuck out of the relationship ASAP.
That's exactly what my concern is all about. I don't wanna become attached to the kid, he becomes attached to me, and before you know it, he's wondering where I'm at.

Everyone makes a good point in here. I talked to her for a couple hours about everything. I was just completely honest with how I felt about the situation and she seemed to understand too. As corny as it sounds, I'm gonna "follow my heart" instead of thinking so much about the future, and take it from there.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: jeromechickenbone on February 28, 2007, 03:38:58 PM
You're obviously a conscienable dude, or you wouldn't be thinking twice about what you're doing.  So you'll probably be alright regardless.  As for my personal opinion, I don't ever see myself getting serious with any female that has a kid.  I'd be on some booty call type shit but that's where it ends.  Her having a kid introduces sooo many potential issues just walking into the relationship, let alone the regular stresses of a relationship. 

To me, it's just way too much.  The one who really gets fucked in the situation is the kid, because regardless of what she says, the kid is gonna be looking for some kinda father figure and is gonna latch on to you like a motherfucker.  I honestly think it's shitty for any woman to expose her child to her boyfriends and shit. 

IF I ever have a kid, I want it to be mine and go through that experience.  I wouldn't want to be responsible for what someone else did.  I also know that I'm not tryin to have family picnics and shit.  You don't want to have to work EVERYTHING out around the kid.  It's just all hassle in my opinion.

So for me, I wouldn't date a girl with a kid.  Just too much stress when you could easily be in another relationship and never have to think about shit like that.  Good luck man.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: J$crILLa on February 28, 2007, 04:13:41 PM
depends how fuckin hot she is
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: $Eg2$ on February 28, 2007, 04:55:26 PM
Girl with kids = they FUCK  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: IKON on February 28, 2007, 05:34:11 PM
Wow, I haven't posted here in what seems to be years but sometimes I browse and see whats up. I am so busy in my life now but this post just grabbed my attention, why??????

Because I was in your situation and went for it. I speak to you from experience.

I met my girl almost 3 years ago. I met her at school. I found out she had a little daughter 3yrs. old at the time. Of course we started out as friends and I never saw anything serious with her but then things changed drastically. I mean I had always avoided girls with kids and everyone had always told me to do the same but it was so different with her. We clicked on another level immediately and of course we became so close and the "L" word quickly followed.

My girl is no hoodrat or hoochie, she is a wonderful girl, wifey material. She just met the wrong guy first before me ;D ;D ;D. Here are a couple things you have to consider or look forward too if you choose to pursue anything serious with her..

You have to be really mature about the situation since it involves a child(you are because you already are thinking about not hurting her or the child, I give you major props for that). I was 25 when I met my girl and she was 23.

 Its great that shes not a hoodrat and has respect for herself. As you can see from some of the immature comments on this thread
Girl with kids = they FUCK  8) 8) 8)
the stereotype about girls with kids is that they are easy and hoes.In fact most guys I know just pursue them for that reason. I mean some can be but they are others like my girl who ended up with the wrong person. You really have to get to know her before making any type of move.

Is she a good mother??? If she is then her child will always come first no matter what. Are you prepared to understand and accept that. Never try to come in between them especially if she loves her son. You will find yourself alone no doubt. No good mother will ever choose a man over her own child believe me. My girl is a wonderful mother and I have never ever tried to come in between her and her daughter. If I did I would be single right now. From what I read she is a good mother since she doesnt want you to be involved with her son right now. I didnt meet my girls daughter until 1 year into our relationship can you believe that??? Well its because she has to be real careful about who she brings around her child. If the day comes that she wants you to have something to do with the child then that definitely means she thinks seriously of you.

Depending on her past experience with men be ready for some trials and tribulations. My girl had a terrible first relationship and lost trust and hope in guys but then she met me. I have now changed her mind but at first it was so so so hard. Move slowly its the best way.

Do you like children??? Well you better since you might be a stepdad in the future. Ever since I met my girl I always went out of my way to buy her little daughter birthday and Christmas gifts. Believe me it shows alot to her.

Honestly there is so much more but I guess you have to experience it yourself. I hope I havent pushed you away from anything serious with this girl but you know she could be the one. I just bought an engagement ring for my girl so that tells you how serious Iam in my relationship. Think about it seriously before you go ahead with any decision just know that it aint easy and it takes so much patience and maturity. One advantage you do have is you get to see how good of a mother she is. That gives you so much incentive to see if one day you marry her how she will treat your child.

Good Luck



Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: QuietTruth on February 28, 2007, 05:45:04 PM
Just don't blame the kid for a reason to not get wit a girl? Ya feel me? It ain't their fault. I can't image the decision ya'll have to go thru when deciding whether this is a good idea or not, but I wish ya'll luck man.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on February 28, 2007, 06:47:24 PM
Wow, I haven't posted here in what seems to be years but sometimes I browse and see whats up. I am so busy in my life now but this post just grabbed my attention, why??????

Because I was in your situation and went for it. I speak to you from experience.

I met my girl almost 3 years ago. I met her at school. I found out she had a little daughter 3yrs. old at the time. Of course we started out as friends and I never saw anything serious with her but then things changed drastically. I mean I had always avoided girls with kids and everyone had always told me to do the same but it was so different with her. We clicked on another level immediately and of course we became so close and the "L" word quickly followed.

My girl is no hoodrat or hoochie, she is a wonderful girl, wifey material. She just met the wrong guy first before me ;D ;D ;D. Here are a couple things you have to consider or look forward too if you choose to pursue anything serious with her..

You have to be really mature about the situation since it involves a child(you are because you already are thinking about not hurting her or the child, I give you major props for that). I was 25 when I met my girl and she was 23.

 Its great that shes not a hoodrat and has respect for herself. As you can see from some of the immature comments on this thread
Girl with kids = they FUCK  8) 8) 8)
the stereotype about girls with kids is that they are easy and hoes.In fact most guys I know just pursue them for that reason. I mean some can be but they are others like my girl who ended up with the wrong person. You really have to get to know her before making any type of move.

Is she a good mother??? If she is then her child will always come first no matter what. Are you prepared to understand and accept that. Never try to come in between them especially if she loves her son. You will find yourself alone no doubt. No good mother will ever choose a man over her own child believe me. My girl is a wonderful mother and I have never ever tried to come in between her and her daughter. If I did I would be single right now. From what I read she is a good mother since she doesnt want you to be involved with her son right now. I didnt meet my girls daughter until 1 year into our relationship can you believe that??? Well its because she has to be real careful about who she brings around her child. If the day comes that she wants you to have something to do with the child then that definitely means she thinks seriously of you.

Depending on her past experience with men be ready for some trials and tribulations. My girl had a terrible first relationship and lost trust and hope in guys but then she met me. I have now changed her mind but at first it was so so so hard. Move slowly its the best way.

Do you like children??? Well you better since you might be a stepdad in the future. Ever since I met my girl I always went out of my way to buy her little daughter birthday and Christmas gifts. Believe me it shows alot to her.

Honestly there is so much more but I guess you have to experience it yourself. I hope I havent pushed you away from anything serious with this girl but you know she could be the one. I just bought an engagement ring for my girl so that tells you how serious Iam in my relationship. Think about it seriously before you go ahead with any decision just know that it aint easy and it takes so much patience and maturity. One advantage you do have is you get to see how good of a mother she is. That gives you so much incentive to see if one day you marry her how she will treat your child.

Good Luck




Thanks for the insight man. That helped me put a lot fo things into perspective. I believe she's a good mother, but of course I gotta see how she interacts with her son more. I know that today she had to take work off because he had a fever and couldn't go to school. I know that's gotta be rough for her since missing work = not getting paid for the day.

I like kids. I basically grew up raisig my brother and sister while my parents were working so I'm used to them. I understand that she's gonna put the kid first. I wouldn't respect a woman that didn't do that. In a way that sucks, but I understand completely.

I'm happy for you and your situation, man. Good luck with your girl. I hope everything works out for the best.

Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Bay Area Jat on February 28, 2007, 07:16:24 PM
as long as the kid doesn't ask if your his dad its all good
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Tanjential on February 28, 2007, 08:10:49 PM
depending on circumstance...yes

-T
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: E-L-P on March 01, 2007, 01:08:32 AM
plain and simple... no. I've done it and would not recommend it. too much drama. you probably don't need that in your life, I didn't.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: STILLDRE IS THE GODFATHER on March 01, 2007, 04:18:22 AM
Wow, I haven't posted here in what seems to be years but sometimes I browse and see whats up. I am so busy in my life now but this post just grabbed my attention, why??????


her.

Honestly there is so much more but I guess you have to experience it yourself. I hope I havent pushed you away from anything serious with this girl but you know she could be the one. I just bought an engagement ring for my girl
Good Luck








congrats on the engagement must be cool having someone you wanna spend your life with
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: XaNdEr on March 01, 2007, 04:30:31 AM
fuck what everyone else says


stick your dick in your eardrum and fuck what ya heard, to quote ras kass

for real tho, i wouldnt know what i do in that situation, i mean i never been in that before, but if you really care for her you should take her how she is, i think you should just continue it and see what happens
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: STILLDRE IS THE GODFATHER on March 01, 2007, 04:33:36 AM
fuck what everyone else says


stick your dick in your eardrum and fuck what ya heard, to quote ras kass


also big syke kind of copied that line with stick a dick in you ear nigga and fuck what you heard
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Chief on March 01, 2007, 05:57:31 AM
xzibit twisted it the best..

"with a dick in your ear, you still couldnt fuck with my sound"

Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on March 02, 2007, 12:52:20 AM
I just can't stay away from her even if I wanted to. Plus, I'm looking at the positives of this whole situation. I'm about to become a very busy man in the future since I'm preparing for my mCAT, taking classes, and beginning an internship (which may cut into my dubcc time  :'( ) so it's good to have a girl that's busy. Other girls I've been with are too clingy and think you're some kinda pet and I can't have that shit.

The situation might work out for the best.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: XaNdEr on March 02, 2007, 01:38:51 AM
well good luck with that in that case  8)
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on March 02, 2007, 01:56:04 PM
I just can't stay away from her even if I wanted to. Plus, I'm looking at the positives of this whole situation. I'm about to become a very busy man in the future since I'm preparing for my mCAT, taking classes, and beginning an internship (which may cut into my dubcc time  :'( ) so it's good to have a girl that's busy. Other girls I've been with are too clingy and think you're some kinda pet and I can't have that shit.

The situation might work out for the best.


Watch "The Secret"...You most likely wont be making threads like these.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Samoan Enforcer on March 02, 2007, 02:30:57 PM
remember elior, youre supposed to think positively, not about not making threads like this, smarten up
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on March 02, 2007, 03:18:44 PM
I just can't stay away from her even if I wanted to. Plus, I'm looking at the positives of this whole situation. I'm about to become a very busy man in the future since I'm preparing for my mCAT, taking classes, and beginning an internship (which may cut into my dubcc time  :'( ) so it's good to have a girl that's busy. Other girls I've been with are too clingy and think you're some kinda pet and I can't have that shit.

The situation might work out for the best.


Watch "The Secret"...You most likely wont be making threads like these.
Never heard of it.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on March 02, 2007, 03:21:06 PM
remember elior, youre supposed to think positively, not about not making threads like this, smarten up


What the hell are you talking about? Does coming off as a jealous hater appeal to you, or is that part of being a hick? "The Secret" is not about thinking positively, it's about understanding the mind and being able to master it...If you weren't busy riding nuts, you'd probably know this.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on March 02, 2007, 03:21:26 PM
I just can't stay away from her even if I wanted to. Plus, I'm looking at the positives of this whole situation. I'm about to become a very busy man in the future since I'm preparing for my mCAT, taking classes, and beginning an internship (which may cut into my dubcc time  :'( ) so it's good to have a girl that's busy. Other girls I've been with are too clingy and think you're some kinda pet and I can't have that shit.

The situation might work out for the best.


Watch "The Secret"...You most likely wont be making threads like these.
Never heard of it.


Check it out, homie...It can really help.

http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=137003.0
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Sikotic™ on March 02, 2007, 03:28:08 PM
Looks interesting. I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Samoan Enforcer on March 02, 2007, 03:38:44 PM
^it's really a great book, too bad it's being plugged on dubcc by the angriest self hating prick in here
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on March 02, 2007, 05:02:10 PM
^^If you watched the movie or read the book then you clearly failed. Stop ruining threads with your nutriding. Think positive. :D
Title: Re: Would you date a girl with a kid?
Post by: QuietTruth on March 02, 2007, 06:33:03 PM
^ Well I got it nigga ;) and I can't figure out how to play it on my computer. What do I need?