West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Suffice on July 27, 2007, 11:26:56 PM
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By ANA MARIE COX/WASHINGTON
Fri Jul 27, 5:30 PM ET
The sequel to the self-styled "ground-breaking" YouTube debate on CNN may be history before it even begins.
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The Rudy Giuliani campaign has cited scheduling conflicts in saying it will skip the Republican version of this week's Democratic debate, while Mitt Romney has mocked the seriousness of the questions and also seems likely to withdraw. John McCain, one of two candidates who had agreed to participate (Ron Paul is the other), has also expressed doubts about the Democratic debate's level of decorum and aides say he may reconsider his commitment. Undeclared candidate Fred Thompson may still not officially be in the race by the event's Sept. 17 airdate.
The Republicans' sudden aversion has political observers wondering whether abandoning an opportunity to participate in the fledging format shows a potentially costly reluctance to engage with voters or is simply an exercise in prudent message management.
CNN's YouTube debate with the Democratic candidates, heralded as an almost life-changing event for American voters, had its rough moments (the puppet snowman, the man with a gun for a baby), and even those on stage complained (Joe Biden referred to it at one point as a "ridiculous exercise"). But once the cameras were turned off, the event received warm reviews from most observers in the mainstream media. The Washington Post's Dan Balz called it "the best of the campaign season," the Chicago Tribune's blog said it was the "summer's best reality show," and the New York Times said that the viewer-submitted questions were able to elicit "points of difference on a broad range of issues, from whether the United States should build more nuclear power plants to whether it would be good policy - or even feasible - to withdraw American troops from Iraq within six months."
The view from the right was less favorable about the impact of this technological shift on politics. White House spokesman Tony Snow told reporters that the President had not even watched, saying Bush was "not big on YouTube debates." Hugh Hewitt, a popular right-wing blogger and radio talk show host, got more specific about what conservatives might object to in a CNN/YouTube debate - he alleged that CNN cherrypicked the submissions for biased questions that a "responsible" journalist wouldn't ask: "the CNN team used the device of the third-party video to inject a question that would have embarrassed any anchor posing it." One staffer for a Republican candidate now leaning toward not participating put it this way: "The problem isn't YouTube, it's CNN."
G.O.P. consultants and campaign staffers say that candidates' hesitancy about the debate stems from concerns similar to Hewitt's, rather than from any nervousness about the unpredictability of the format. What's more, says another G.O.P. operative, "Every day you're debating is a day you're not raising money." Adds the operative: "We've shown our willingness to take questions from real people. Look at the Politico debate" - in which questions submitted by e-mail were read. "And the game isn't over. There could be a online video debate somewhere, someday; it just doesn't look like this one will happen." The Florida debate was already on much shakier ground than the Democratic YouTube debate; the Democratic National Committee had put its seal on that debate, whereas the Republican National Committee has not endorsed this forum. It is co-sponsored by the Republican Party of Florida, which has insisted the show will go on.
The Florida party's optimism may lie in the hope that Governor Charlie Crist will use his influence to round up candidates. Crist has yet to endorse a anyone in his state's hugely important early primary - a mouth-watering carrot for any candidate willing to face the YouTube stick. But campaign staffers say that the prospect of a different G.O.P. debate in Florida - one sponsored by Fox - makes it unlikely that Crist will really turn on the heat.
Still, some Republicans worry that shying away from YouTube will make their candidates seem technophobic or out of touch. Patrick Ruffini, a G.O.P. online political strategist, wrote on his blog: "It's stuff like this that will set the G.O.P. back an election cycle or more on the Internet." Democratic consultants are rubbing their hands together at being able to portray their general election rivals as being - as one put it to me - "afraid of snowmen" or simply ignorant of techonologies that many Americans use on a daily basis. Indeed, Governor Romney today, in the context of evincing concern over Internet predators, supported that suspicion: "YouTube looked to see if they had any convicted sex offenders on their web site. They had 29,000," he said, mistaking the debate co-sponsor for the social network MySpace, which has recently done a purge of sex offenders from its rolls.
Ruffini has already started an online petition to encourage G.O.P. candidates to participate in the YouTube debate - savethedebate.com . One campaign staffer, however, contended that Ruffini is viewing the controversy through the "narrow vision" of an online consultant. The format, this staffer said, is only a problem insofar as it allows CNN to present questions that may be too aggressive or controversial for the confines of a standard campaign interaction. One might argue that this is the whole point of a YouTube debate - and that since the Democratic candidates have already dealt with them, why should the G.O.P. candidates be able to avoid snowmen and matrimony-seeking gay couples when their rivals couldn't?
If G.O.P. contenders succeed in making the case that technology is only incidental to their objections, they will have a precedent: The major Democratic candidates have pledged to boycott a debate sponsored by Fox News, citing the network's conservative bias as their reason. Right-wing commentators mocked the Democrats for their decision, but the netroots applauded. And whether Republicans can make the case to a general audience that CNN is biased to the left hardly matters - their base voters likely already believe it.
View this article on Time.com
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Since it looks like Ron Paul is the only guy left that wants to do the youtube maybe we'll all luck out and just get 2 hours of Ron Paul answering youtube questions on CNN.
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I don't balme the Republicans. Did anyone actually see the You Tube debates? They were so goofy and silly, with videos showing talking snowmen, hillbilliees, etc.
We are talking about the presidency of the United States....let's be a little more sophisticated.
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Those pussies just don't want to mess with the Youtube crowd. That's Ron Paul's home turf.
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Their loss...Just like how Bush Sr. alienated the "MTV Nation" back in the day and Clinton was there to capitalize.
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Just read that the YouTube debate has been postponed indefinitely. I'm guessing it'll never happen.
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i watched the democrats youtube debate and thaught it was a good for the general public to engage and ask the difficult questions which the media often don't bother with. It also helped everyone show sincere or not they were, hillary clintron disappointed me when everyone was asked to say something good about the person next to them she completely ignored obama and came up with some flowery response saying i think everyone standing here would be good rather than doing what the question asked.
I think the republicans are just scared and have to much to hide....
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Since it looks like Ron Paul is the only guy left that wants to do the youtube maybe we'll all luck out and just get 2 hours of Ron Paul answering youtube questions on CNN.
is there a point to it though? as much as i would like for him to win the election, he doesnt have majoritiy of votes no? and doesnt he need electorial votes too?
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Since it looks like Ron Paul is the only guy left that wants to do the youtube maybe we'll all luck out and just get 2 hours of Ron Paul answering youtube questions on CNN.
is there a point to it though? as much as i would like for him to win the election, he doesnt have majoritiy of votes no? and doesnt he need electorial votes too?
I guess I'm under the impression that if everyone in America sat back and listened to what he says most will agree with him and vote for him. I can't see anyone beating him in a debate. I doubt he'll win the republican but I think he'd be the only republican to beat the democrats in the election next year. In short i'ts just me and my wishful thinking.
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Only Paul and McCain said they'd do it. Sad. :P Further shows how the majority of Republicans are pussies.
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Ron Paul doesn't seem to be a close minded miserable war monger fascist like most republicans are. Even saying he would participate in the youtube debate is a plus for him. McCain would participate only because he has basically no hope left of being a top candidate. Republicans never want to listen to what real citizens that aren't on the bandwagon have to say about politics.
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Just read earlier that the debate is still on, it's just been rescheduled. I'll post the date in a minute.
And there isn't a Republican candidate that would EVER want to go toe to toe with Paul in any debate. He's won every one so far. They're scared shitless of him. They're not gonna praise his ideas, they're not gonna ridicule his ideas because he always comes off looking better. Their strategy is to just ignore him and blackball him.
And yes, thus far it's only Paul and McCain as far as the big names go.
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We are talking about the presidency of the United States....let's be a little more sophisticated.
says the Bush fan :D
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Their loss...Just like how Bush Sr. alienated the "MTV Nation" back in the day and Clinton was there to capitalize.
Those pussies just don't want to mess with the Youtube crowd. That's Ron Paul's home turf.
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Just read earlier that the debate is still on, it's just been rescheduled. I'll post the date in a minute.
And there isn't a Republican candidate that would EVER want to go toe to toe with Paul in any debate. He's won every one so far. They're scared shitless of him. They're not gonna praise his ideas, they're not gonna ridicule his ideas because he always comes off looking better. Their strategy is to just ignore him and blackball him.
And yes, thus far it's only Paul and McCain as far as the big names go.
I beg to differ. these republicans would love to go toe to toe with Paul because the ignorant home crowd theyll be debating in front of, will be too stupid to realize the ether that Paul would drop.
witness Guilianis mind numbling stupid response to Paul re: 9/11 attackers and their motivations. Guiliania disputed a proven fact and got a standing ovation
and im not surpirsed these republicans are shook. i bet half of their electoral base doesnt even know how to upload a video onto youtube
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Ron Paul is an idiot. The US foreign policy is what is caussing Islamic terrorism?? Newsflash....Islamic terror is a widespread phenomenon. Muslims are committing terror across the globe....US, UK, Spain, Russia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc. Hell, Canada broke up a huge terror cell last year of Muslims plotting attacks in that country. How many bases does Canada have in the Middle East? How many troops do they have in Iraq?
If the US disappeared tommorow, Islamic terror would still thrive. And that fact alone proves that Ron Paul is dellusional.
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Ron Paul is an idiot. The US foreign policy is what is caussing Islamic terrorism?? Newsflash....Islamic terror is a widespread phenomenon. Muslims are committing terror across the globe....US, UK, Spain, Russia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc. Hell, Canada broke up a huge terror cell last year of Muslims plotting attacks in that country. How many bases does Canada have in the Middle East? How many troops do they have in Iraq?
If the US disappeared tommorow, Islamic terror would still thrive. And that fact alone proves that Ron Paul is dellusional.
Paul was simply restating what the intelligent reports said. You and most republicans make it seem like Paul just pulled the theory out of his ass.
The attack in Canada was a joke. Most of the punks arrested were a bunch of stupid kids that couldn't blow up a balloon much less a part of the city. I knew some of them personally, and they are all being quietly released with no charges. These weren't major terrorists, they were just arabic versions of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
And Tech; Guliiani may have had the crowd for the first few seconds but Paul was taking them back. One of the major reasons everyone just ignores him in the media. The other major part of his campaign that will make every republican, independant, and many democrats turn their heads and listen is the fact that he plans on eliminating income tax.
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You are trying to communicate with someone whose mental age seems to surpass no more than 5 shallow, you will have to dumb it down a little more than that!. By the way, what was the deal with the people arrested in canada then? i heard it was a sting operation where basicaly the RCMP dropped fertiliser off and when they were in receipt of it, they arrested them.
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I don't balme the Republicans. Did anyone actually see the You Tube debates? They were so goofy and silly, with videos showing talking snowmen, hillbilliees, etc.
We are talking about the presidency of the United States....let's be a little more sophisticated.
if we were more sophisticated Bush wouldn't be our president
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You are trying to communicate with someone whose mental age seems to surpass no more than 5 shallow, you will have to dumb it down a little more than that!. By the way, what was the deal with the people arrested in canada then? i heard it was a sting operation where basicaly the RCMP dropped fertiliser off and when they were in receipt of it, they arrested them.
I'm not saying their wasn't any intent in any of the terror suspects, but intent and intelligence are two different things. This wasn't a group of deadly terrorists. This was a group of outcast nerds who thought it'd be cool to play Taliban. There was a far greater chance of these guys accidentally killing themselves trying to make a bomb than there was of them successfully pulling off the intended crime. I'm not sure how many are still in custody and how many are out. There were two groups involved. One group was really trying to do it the other was just part of the same mosque. Most of those kids are being released or will be soon. The one kid I do know from around the neighborhood was released a couple months after. He said they just have you sit in a dark room with no lights and no communication with anyone and you just wait. In his case it was several weeks. I can only imagine how it feels after a year plus. I know the broter of one of the other guys in there and he hasn't spoken to his brother at all since he went in, and neither has his mother or father.
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No I understand what you are saying, but like you said it's one thing to have intent it's another thing to have the ability to carry out and execute the plans in a professional manner. Which raises questions about the RCMP's conduct in all of this, as these were just simply a gang of crazy punks, they could never do it themselves and so therefore the sting operation was not a sting operation to clear the streets of dangerous individuals and more a deliberate cynical calculated attempt at spreading the fear factor of the so called war on terror. It's also interesting to note that from reading canadian online publications, that this was all politically timed because this group had been watched for a long time.
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No I understand what you are saying, but like you said it's one thing to have intent it's another thing to have the ability to carry out and execute the plans in a professional manner. Which raises questions about the RCMP's confuct in all of this, as these were just simply a gang of crazy punks, they could never do it themselves and so therefore the sting operation was not a sting operation to clear the streets of dangerous individuals and more a deliberate cynical calculated attempt at spreading the fear factor of the so called war on terror. It's also interesting to note that from reading canadian online publications, that this was all politically timed because this group had been watched for a long time.
The political timing was another key factor. Governments and media constantly band together to create a fuss and get people emotional. Rather than releasing monthly reports of where are tax dollars are going and why it needs to be spent the way it is, they just find a sensational story every so often and pump it down our throats. Whether it be blockades on supposed native land that shut down an entire town, or gunfights the day after Christmas that leave 5 wounded and one dead, or Jamaicans killing each other in the street over disprespect, or a police officer sadly being killed on the job. It's not that I don't feel for the victims in those cases but for everyone one gun shooting victim, angry native and dead cop there dozens upon dozens of early heart attacks, strokes, drownings, and vehicular homicides. Yet those stories take a back seat. People die, that's just the way life goes. At the end of the day we just have to accept, do our best to prolong it, and move on. What people don't have to accept is 30 to 50 percent of our income being stolen by the government. We don't have to accept government funded monopolies sucking the life out of industry and services. All these penalties, permits and taxes need to go, but as long as people in Toronto are too busy worrying about being shot in the street by an angry Jamaican, living near a marijuana grow op, or trying to stop carbon dioxide from destroying the planet, those burdens on our society will never go away.
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Ageed +1
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We are talking about the presidency of the United States....let's be a little more sophisticated.
says the Bush fan :D
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Just read earlier that the debate is still on, it's just been rescheduled. I'll post the date in a minute.
And there isn't a Republican candidate that would EVER want to go toe to toe with Paul in any debate. He's won every one so far. They're scared shitless of him. They're not gonna praise his ideas, they're not gonna ridicule his ideas because he always comes off looking better. Their strategy is to just ignore him and blackball him.
And yes, thus far it's only Paul and McCain as far as the big names go.
I beg to differ. these republicans would love to go toe to toe with Paul because the ignorant home crowd theyll be debating in front of, will be too stupid to realize the ether that Paul would drop.
witness Guilianis mind numbling stupid response to Paul re: 9/11 attackers and their motivations. Guiliania disputed a proven fact and got a standing ovation
and im not surpirsed these republicans are shook. i bet half of their electoral base doesnt even know how to upload a video onto youtube
True, but that was argueably the biggerst moment in that debate. That got Paul a lot more exposure than he would have gotten. And when he was asked in subsequent interviews he had his time to fully explain his stance, which when rational people hear that they can actually agree. In the end Rudy came off looking like an uninformed dumbfuck.
And I know Paul invited Guiliani to debate the topic 1 on 1 at a later date and Guiliani refused. He's shook.