West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Dropper on January 23, 2008, 05:42:33 PM
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ueEfRXZCVA
if you like the freedoms we still have today esse, then watch this.
Do Not Accept the National ID card this YEAR!!! We're f***ed if we dont do something now esse.
-
Dr. malachi Z york talked about this in his scrolls way before niggas started recently findin out about this.
-
http://www.zeistgeistmovie.com
some more shit to think about...
-
interesting information but what is anyone gonna do about it?
I either pay my income tax or I fuckin go to jail, why fight the IRS when it's impossible to win
just bend over and get raped like Job's mom, that's all you can do
I either get fucked in the ass by income tax or literally fucked in the ass in prison, it's not worth it to fight taxes unless every single person stood up
unless you wanna be Wesley Snipes
-
^^^And there you have it. It doesnt matter if one guy or a couple guys decide to not pay taxes because the govt will destroy you. if it were possible to organize a significant number of people and convice a large group of people not to pay up, then you'd have something. But me alone deciding not to pay taxes is not gonna benefit me in any aspect.
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
-
I don't get Americans and their problem with taxes. Taxes are fucking normal in a functional government. The taxes in Germany are higher than the taxes in the US. Why are you guys bitching so much about it?
-
I don't get Americans and their problem with taxes. Taxes are fucking normal in a functional government. The taxes in Germany are higher than the taxes in the US. Why are you guys bitching so much about it?
Just because you're more used to it doesn't make it right. I'm not against taxes so much. It's what the taxes are used for. It's complete over spending and downright stupidity. Here in Canana, in my province, there is only one store that's allowed to sell liguor. The Liguor Store as it's called is government run. It has a monopoly on the market, yet it still loses money every year. How do you have a monopoly on alcohol and lose money? Minimum wage here is like 7 to 8 dollars an hour. Liquor store cashiers make almost 20 an hour. Every year or so they spend money to renovate stores and give them new looks. The Liliquor Store's next door neighbor, The Beer Store, just went through a massive new look that caused all few hundred or so locations to be completely renovated from the ground up, with a new fresh look. Why would you need to keep a fresh look? Some guy who represents it on the news said "it's called advertising a product". They have a fucking monopoly. No competition. Why should the fruits of my labor be taken from me so a bunch of cashiers can make two times what they're worth and a government run bullshit store that I never use (I never drink) can over spend money?
The booze is just an example of every aspect of my governmnt fucking around with more money than they need. They collect the taxes to create the power. They don't trust the people to make decisions. I believe in democracy. Let the people choose. If they choose wrong and things to shit then the nanny stare can just come back in the next election. Bt if they choose right and 90% of everything the government does is proved to be useless then the old gaurd has a problem. A problem they don't ever want to face.
-
You do realize that a renovated fucking liquor store is peanuts compared to what else the government is spending money for, right? All the infrastructure, railroads, streets, schools, education, security, war... it's all financed through taxes. You guys act as if they would just collect 40% of your income and spend all of it on private coke & hooker parties. Redistribution of income is also a very important point. Tax cuts are always a blessing for the wealthy and wicked. They have more money to spend on luxery things they don't need, while the government doesn't have the money to support the poor, with things like welfare or health care. The wider the gap between rich and poor, the greater the crime rate and the greater the percentage of decadent people with a revolutionary mind-set. Of course not every tax dollar is spent extremely wisely, but some people in here act as if the whole system of having taxes is a conspiracy. It'd be plain anarchy without taxes. The poor with less/no money, and the wealthy with more money... but would they use their money to help the poor? Of course not, they would use it to make even more money. Great! Listen, just because some people think they are able to deal with their money themselves without the government regulating shit, doesn't mean everybody would be able to. To me a country without taxes would be doomed in the long run. I really hope America keeps reducing taxes more and more (because otherwise you won't become elected)... you people will see what happens then. You deserve it.
-
7even, you didnt even watch the videos, otherwise you'd understand.
Its not about just taxes. Theres a higher agenda. The "Taxes" you saying we shouldnt bitch about dont go to pay for the country, it goes into the pockets of Private bankers. So, you saying you are ok with that?
-
7even, you didnt even watch the videos, otherwise you'd understand.
Its not about just taxes. Theres a higher agenda. The "Taxes" you saying we shouldnt bitch about dont go to pay for the country, it goes into the pockets of Private bankers. So, you saying you are ok with that?
I watched the 1st video. There will always be people who are too bored with reality I guess. If all those taxes go into the pockets of private bankers, could you please explain to me how all the schools, streets, public transports, wars and all the other government shit is financed? LOL@every tax dollar into the pocket of some private banker. Do you know how retarded that is?
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
-
7even, you didnt even watch the videos, otherwise you'd understand.
Its not about just taxes. Theres a higher agenda. The "Taxes" you saying we shouldnt bitch about dont go to pay for the country, it goes into the pockets of Private bankers. So, you saying you are ok with that?
I watched the 1st video. There will always be people who are too bored with reality I guess. If all those taxes go into the pockets of private bankers, could you please explain to me how all the schools, streets, public transports, wars and all the other government shit is financed? LOL@every tax dollar into the pocket of some private banker. Do you know how retarded that is?
lol, why is the federal reserve bank not government owned? Why is our money printed from a private company? Why, if the governement has the authority to print our own money, leave it into the hands of the Fed banks? Fuck outta here.
You are in denial.
-
I don't get Americans and their problem with taxes. Taxes are fucking normal in a functional government. The taxes in Germany are higher than the taxes in the US. Why are you guys bitching so much about it?
Just because you're more used to it doesn't make it right. I'm not against taxes so much. It's what the taxes are used for. It's complete over spending and downright stupidity. Here in Canana, in my province, there is only one store that's allowed to sell liguor. The Liguor Store as it's called is government run. It has a monopoly on the market, yet it still loses money every year. How do you have a monopoly on alcohol and lose money? Minimum wage here is like 7 to 8 dollars an hour. Liquor store cashiers make almost 20 an hour. Every year or so they spend money to renovate stores and give them new looks. The Liliquor Store's next door neighbor, The Beer Store, just went through a massive new look that caused all few hundred or so locations to be completely renovated from the ground up, with a new fresh look. Why would you need to keep a fresh look? Some guy who represents it on the news said "it's called advertising a product". They have a fucking monopoly. No competition. Why should the fruits of my labor be taken from me so a bunch of cashiers can make two times what they're worth and a government run bullshit store that I never use (I never drink) can over spend money?
The booze is just an example of every aspect of my governmnt fucking around with more money than they need. They collect the taxes to create the power. They don't trust the people to make decisions. I believe in democracy. Let the people choose. If they choose wrong and things to shit then the nanny stare can just come back in the next election. Bt if they choose right and 90% of everything the government does is proved to be useless then the old gaurd has a problem. A problem they don't ever want to face.
where in canada
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?
Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.
Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).
-
7Even, it's not like I think nobody should pay tax.... I'm smart enough to realize taxes can help the community, poor people, etc.
it's the fact that a majority of tax dollars are being wasted on nonsense and that fuckin war going on
the only problem I have with tax is that A) doesn't all go to good B) can be too high in some cases
-
From my understanding, the central banks provide the government with huge loans, which are termed the national debt. This debt is secured against the citizens income tax. Here is something interesting for those that dismiss this notion that is the central banks which control the entire world, and the issue surrounding it, is transparency. When this issue is raised, people will automatically dismiss it as a conspiracy theory and yet they will never reveal who owns the central banks. Now in terms of asking how the infrastructure is developed maintained in services, welfare and any other avenues, it's financed through 2 things, firstly the ongoing loans issued to national governments and through the many other taxes, think about all of the items in the shop, these are all Vatable. Now look at council taxes, national insurance, taxable benefits, there are hundreds of indirect forms of taxation. The central banks have been given complete independence to make or break a country, look at what the federal reserve has done, devalued the dollar to the point where the whole economic system is on the very edge of self destructing. The central banks print the money out of thin air, they can't lose, just how difficult do you think it is to buy politicians off? banking families like the rothschilds, conservatively have a fortune of 100 trillion.
Also, I think though what you west coast was saying, was negative, it was also positive to because you recognise that we are now living under complete dictatorship, through your recognition that you are fucked if you don't go along with the system. However think about this also, the government incessantly holds focus groups, the national surveillance agencies, measure the chatter on hot issues, we are so controlled and tightly monitored, that I have come to the conclusion that they are extremely paranoid. The reason why they continually hold focus groups, is they want to be able to assess and ascertain public opinion. The reality is this, me and you are in the minority, the majority are still oblivious of the malevolent nature of the order around us and this is what ensures the agenda rolls forward. If you notice with most of these incremental steps, they are not declaring that we rule you, they are not being openly menacing, instead they are much more cunning than that. What they do is create the backdrop, propagandianize us with the problem and then offer a false solution. We as a collective are enslaving ourselves, they are not shepherding us into the cages, we are moving into them, because that is what we think needs to be done. This strikes at 2 main cores, the first is a society in which many people are incapable of critical thinking, i.e. they hear something or read something but don't assess and understand what it actually means, the second which is much worse, is the alarming few who do actually read. By not educating ourselves, we become dependent on a soundbite, white washed story or headline in order to feed our opinions and this is where the main problem lies.
Despite the facade though, remember people power would crush all of this and through non violence to, which is why the establishment from America to Britain and beyond, has employed the best psychologists in order to come with what amounts to a genius implementation of total conditioning. However the biggest issue is this, we think we don't know, we seem to reject or approve of things on the basis of "what i believe" we have pre conceptions and images which we associate with any issue. I used to buy into so much of all of this, here is something that should send a shiver down everyones spine and in turn resist it, in the UK, the plan is to force every single citizen onto a national id database, companies will have access to the contents held on the database, but the citizen will not. Without being registered, without giving your iris scans, dna and fingerprints, you will never be allowed to leave the country, they intend to marry the checkout tills with the id card and then move over to paying via your fingerprints (like is being to happen in germany). Liam Burns (home office minister) said the labour government is aiming to have the fingerprints of all 11-16 in order to hamonise the UK with The European Directive. The purpose of the directive is to centralise all E.U' nations databases onto a european database. At the very same time, the E.U has agreed to a free trade agreement with the NAU (even though the NAU doesn't exist) every free trade block leads to a political unit in order to regulate. The Americans are calling for the europeans to share their databases with them, the end result is this, a worldwide prison grid where privacy is laughed at, where colossal no fly lists can be fully created, a key system on which depending on your behaviour, prison record etc access can be barred to services automatically via the database being linked to all transactions.
However in the UK all of this be crushed if just 20% of people refuse, this probably is not going to happen but one thing I do know, is that I will sooner die then submit to having a chip embedded in my skin. The reason being of course that as soon as they have that in us, it's over for humanity. The thing to do is firstly try and educate yourself just on the basics even and then maybe I don't know, focus more on one particular area and then wake people the fuck up. I am just as guilty as many in this respect, I start feeling like it's something which shouldn't be talked about for fear of how others will perceive me but lately, fuck it.
They stick fluoride in our water despite studies confirming the deadly effects
they stick aspartame in the soft drinks despite even the FDA's own admission of the many studies proving how it changes your DNA
they come on television and talk about the evil Al Queda, when the senate congressional committee documented how Al Queda were funded and trained in 1998 during the Kosovo war,
they are poisoning the entire planet with depleted uranium,
they tell us the terrorists want to take away our freedoms, then they take our freedoms,
they pump nerve gases into the sea,
they admittedly experiment on us by releasing Sarin in the Wiltshire countryside to see how it reacts to the atmospheric conditions,
they released a deadly virus into the New York subway
they admittedly planned to carry out 911's before September 11 (Operation Northwoods)
they knowingly release deadly prescription drugs onto the market which kills 70,000 people and yet no one gets prosecuted (Vioxx)
they give the average kid in London 30 shots by the time they are 5, when these shots are full of thermosamol (mercury) who then tell you it's a conspiracy theory to say these vaccines are harming people T
These are people straight from the pits of hell who are kept in power by naivety, wickedness, the good intentioned and the disbelieving who buy their story about them being our protectorates.
ry about them being our protectorates.
-
You do realize that a renovated fucking liquor store is peanuts compared to what else the government is spending money for, right? All the infrastructure, railroads, streets, schools, education, security, war... it's all financed through taxes. You guys act as if they would just collect 40% of your income and spend all of it on private coke & hooker parties. Redistribution of income is also a very important point. Tax cuts are always a blessing for the wealthy and wicked. They have more money to spend on luxery things they don't need, while the government doesn't have the money to support the poor, with things like welfare or health care. The wider the gap between rich and poor, the greater the crime rate and the greater the percentage of decadent people with a revolutionary mind-set. Of course not every tax dollar is spent extremely wisely, but some people in here act as if the whole system of having taxes is a conspiracy. It'd be plain anarchy without taxes. The poor with less/no money, and the wealthy with more money... but would they use their money to help the poor? Of course not, they would use it to make even more money. Great! Listen, just because some people think they are able to deal with their money themselves without the government regulating shit, doesn't mean everybody would be able to. To me a country without taxes would be doomed in the long run. I really hope America keeps reducing taxes more and more (because otherwise you won't become elected)... you people will see what happens then. You deserve it.
I'm talking income tax. Not sales tax, or gasoline tax (which pays for roads). The USA had no income tax for over 40 years after they ended slavery. How exactly did that country strive that whole time? Maybe you like serfdom? Maybe it's your Germanic tribe roots. I don't like the idea of having from a third to nearly half of my income up for grabs.
That welfare garbage is BS. I'd agree with if it worked but your fuckhead fellow countryman Karl Marx was an idiot. The market takes care of it self. Rich people need as little poor people as possible in the countries they live in. They need people to buy things. They need people to work. There is nothing wrong with working hard and getting ahead, and most of the current laws set up actually keep the little guy from striving. All these permit laws and shit get ignored when the rich want to get something done but get in the way of the common folk trying to get ahead.
Minimum wage laws just cut jobs and create inflation. You'll get paid what you're worth, and if you're too stupid to see that then get smarter. The western countries are ready for people to smarten up. They are ready to let a little anarchy come along. It won't work in underdeveloped countries but it will work here. It just needs to start being introduced. Instead we are going backwards and creating more dependency.
Redistribution of wealth is code for setting people up in traps. It lures struggling people into ghettos and encourages them to settle. It takes away incentive by assuring them security. But all it really does is ensure that they remain in their low place for generations. It breeds crime and allows for justification of even higher taxes. It doesn't work.
You may want to believe that charities are pointless, particularly Christian charities in the west but the reality is that for it's dogma and stupidity the Church spreads a lot of wealth with out forcing people to donate against their will.
It's funny how you dismiss the concept of Christiany because it cannot be proven to be true but have no problem accepting the blunders of Marxism even after utter failures and absolute proof that it is a lie.
-
You're talking a lot of shit. I don't want to get into details, but anarchy can never work. Again, I can only hope that the US or in your case Canada gets what y'all economic neo-liberals want. Be careful what you wish for, son. With that said Marx > your family tree
-
I don't know why I am even responding but are you serious? the communist manifesto was unashamedly and openly evil. I can either conclude one of 3 thins about those that support communism, they are either disenchanted with the way things are and want a change of direction, they have heard that communism means everyone is equal, in which case have never read it, or thirdly they just worship evil.
-
You're talking a lot of shit. I don't want to get into details, but anarchy can never work. Again, I can only hope that the US or in your case Canada gets what y'all economic neo-liberals want. Be careful what you wish for, son. With that said Marx > your family tree
LMAO... who's talking anarchy? You're a complete idiot. You just making statements you know nothing about.
-
From my understanding, the central banks provide the government with huge loans, which are termed the national debt. This debt is secured against the citizens income tax. Here is something interesting for those that dismiss this notion that is the central banks which control the entire world, and the issue surrounding it, is transparency. When this issue is raised, people will automatically dismiss it as a conspiracy theory and yet they will never reveal who owns the central banks. Now in terms of asking how the infrastructure is developed maintained in services, welfare and any other avenues, it's financed through 2 things, firstly the ongoing loans issued to national governments and through the many other taxes, think about all of the items in the shop, these are all Vatable. Now look at council taxes, national insurance, taxable benefits, there are hundreds of indirect forms of taxation. The central banks have been given complete independence to make or break a country, look at what the federal reserve has done, devalued the dollar to the point where the whole economic system is on the very edge of self destructing. The central banks print the money out of thin air, they can't lose, just how difficult do you think it is to buy politicians off? banking families like the rothschilds, conservatively have a fortune of 100 trillion.
Also, I think though what you west coast was saying, was negative, it was also positive to because you recognise that we are now living under complete dictatorship, through your recognition that you are fucked if you don't go along with the system. However think about this also, the government incessantly holds focus groups, the national surveillance agencies, measure the chatter on hot issues, we are so controlled and tightly monitored, that I have come to the conclusion that they are extremely paranoid. The reason why they continually hold focus groups, is they want to be able to assess and ascertain public opinion. The reality is this, me and you are in the minority, the majority are still oblivious of the malevolent nature of the order around us and this is what ensures the agenda rolls forward. If you notice with most of these incremental steps, they are not declaring that we rule you, they are not being openly menacing, instead they are much more cunning than that. What they do is create the backdrop, propagandianize us with the problem and then offer a false solution. We as a collective are enslaving ourselves, they are not shepherding us into the cages, we are moving into them, because that is what we think needs to be done. This strikes at 2 main cores, the first is a society in which many people are incapable of critical thinking, i.e. they hear something or read something but don't assess and understand what it actually means, the second which is much worse, is the alarming few who do actually read. By not educating ourselves, we become dependent on a soundbite, white washed story or headline in order to feed our opinions and this is where the main problem lies.
Despite the facade though, remember people power would crush all of this and through non violence to, which is why the establishment from America to Britain and beyond, has employed the best psychologists in order to come with what amounts to a genius implementation of total conditioning. However the biggest issue is this, we think we don't know, we seem to reject or approve of things on the basis of "what i believe" we have pre conceptions and images which we associate with any issue. I used to buy into so much of all of this, here is something that should send a shiver down everyones spine and in turn resist it, in the UK, the plan is to force every single citizen onto a national id database, companies will have access to the contents held on the database, but the citizen will not. Without being registered, without giving your iris scans, dna and fingerprints, you will never be allowed to leave the country, they intend to marry the checkout tills with the id card and then move over to paying via your fingerprints (like is being to happen in germany). Liam Burns (home office minister) said the labour government is aiming to have the fingerprints of all 11-16 in order to hamonise the UK with The European Directive. The purpose of the directive is to centralise all E.U' nations databases onto a european database. At the very same time, the E.U has agreed to a free trade agreement with the NAU (even though the NAU doesn't exist) every free trade block leads to a political unit in order to regulate. The Americans are calling for the europeans to share their databases with them, the end result is this, a worldwide prison grid where privacy is laughed at, where colossal no fly lists can be fully created, a key system on which depending on your behaviour, prison record etc access can be barred to services automatically via the database being linked to all transactions.
However in the UK all of this be crushed if just 20% of people refuse, this probably is not going to happen but one thing I do know, is that I will sooner die then submit to having a chip embedded in my skin. The reason being of course that as soon as they have that in us, it's over for humanity. The thing to do is firstly try and educate yourself just on the basics even and then maybe I don't know, focus more on one particular area and then wake people the fuck up. I am just as guilty as many in this respect, I start feeling like it's something which shouldn't be talked about for fear of how others will perceive me but lately, fuck it.
They stick fluoride in our water despite studies confirming the deadly effects
they stick aspartame in the soft drinks despite even the FDA's own admission of the many studies proving how it changes your DNA
they come on television and talk about the evil Al Queda, when the senate congressional committee documented how Al Queda were funded and trained in 1998 during the Kosovo war,
they are poisoning the entire planet with depleted uranium,
they tell us the terrorists want to take away our freedoms, then they take our freedoms,
they pump nerve gases into the sea,
they admittedly experiment on us by releasing Sarin in the Wiltshire countryside to see how it reacts to the atmospheric conditions,
they released a deadly virus into the New York subway
they admittedly planned to carry out 911's before September 11 (Operation Northwoods)
they knowingly release deadly prescription drugs onto the market which kills 70,000 people and yet no one gets prosecuted (Vioxx)
they give the average kid in London 30 shots by the time they are 5, when these shots are full of thermosamol (mercury) who then tell you it's a conspiracy theory to say these vaccines are harming people T
These are people straight from the pits of hell who are kept in power by naivety, wickedness, the good intentioned and the disbelieving who buy their story about them being our protectorates.
ry about them being our protectorates.
REAL TALK HOMIE!!!
-
You're talking a lot of shit. I don't want to get into details, but anarchy can never work. Again, I can only hope that the US or in your case Canada gets what y'all economic neo-liberals want. Be careful what you wish for, son. With that said Marx > your family tree
LMAO... who's talking anarchy? You're a complete idiot. You just making statements you know nothing about.
Read the posts in this thread, you scared dumbfuck.
-
I don't know why I am even responding but are you serious? the communist manifesto was unashamedly and openly evil. I can either conclude one of 3 thins about those that support communism, they are either disenchanted with the way things are and want a change of direction, they have heard that communism means everyone is equal, in which case have never read it, or thirdly they just worship evil.
Are you talking to me? I have never promoted communism. Stop making random conclusions. Lol@reducing Marx to modern communism.
-
You are cool 7even and what I said is not addressed to you exactly, was merely responding to you mentioned Marx in a non negative light. I am just saying there are many menacing undertones to Marx's communist manifesto and then there are just the downright sick points in it like describing the family as the enemy, the evil, submit to the state, take the kids to indoctrination centres because the state will love you. I actually felt really sick after reading that manifesto, hence the reason why I addressed people that like communism in 3 groups. I never suggested you liked communism!
-
You are cool 7even and what I said is not addressed to you exactly, was merely responding to you mentioned Marx in a non negative light. I am just saying there are many menacing undertones to Marx's communist manifesto and then there are just the downright sick points in it like describing the family as the enemy, the evil, submit to the state, take the kids to indoctrination centres because the state will love you. I actually felt really sick after reading that manifesto, hence the reason why I addressed people that like communism in 3 groups. I never suggested you liked communism!
I like Marx for other things that don't involve communism, like his criticism on religion for instance. I never heard of those extreme and absurd points you just mentioned. Where have you heard that? Engel interpreted Marx' "Capital" and he made some mistakes. Later people never looked at Marx' Capital, but at the interpretation of Engel.
The problem is you can't take political positions of people who died long ago without a grain of salt, as the world and the circumstances were very different then. You also can't blame them for future politicians who later abused their doctrines for their own agendas. Honestly, from what I have read of Marx I can't imagine him writing the stuff you mentioned. He was a revolutionary, pro-proletarian thinker, I have a hard time envisioning him saying stuff that promotes unconditional submission to the state. In fact I reckon the manifest included points like abolishment of child labour and free education for everybody.
-
Ive downloaded it again, will re read though it and then tell you. I might be wrong and it might have been some alternate communist doctrine I had read but will admit if I am wrong but anyways, the crux of my response to this thread, comes in my first rant ;D
-
Ive downloaded it again, will re read though it and then tell you. I might be wrong and it might have been some alternate communist doctrine I had read but will admit if I am wrong but anyways, the crux of my response to this thread, comes in my first rant ;D
I agree with a lot of things stated in your long post, however, I am still not a fan of economic neo-liberalism. You think it's bad now, and it is, yet I am sure that no difficult western country can succeed without an income tax, and the US sure as hell is a difficult country. Countries like Norway, Finland or Switzerland MIGHT have a shot at trying to significantly reduce taxes and thrive. From my perspective, America does not.
I see your main issue with everything is basically how a small influential group of people is pulling the strings and controlling the masses. But the income tax is not the reason for that. It will always be like this, no matter what you do, they will always find a way. Either that or plain chaos. I hate 1984 as much as you, but I'd hate civil war even more.
As for the people complaining about tax money being wasted on bullshit, people have different values, that's what it is. Some people think it's great to spend money on renovating a church, others could care less and have it rather spent on renovating a bunch of liquor stores. Some people hate imperialistic foreign policies and don't want to see tax money spent on weapons, military and war, when others would love to bomb the shit out of the entire middle east. People are different, the government can't just focus on you as an individual.
As for the people who think people would use their money on things that are actually important if they had not to pay any income tax. I have to say you are either very naive or very idealistic. I think that is bullshit. For anybody spending his money wisely and in favor or the community, there would be 10 idiots doing complete bullshit with it (like losing it all on gambling, then dying on the street when they become old) and another 30 people being completely selfish with it.
Look up "prisoner's dilemma" in google. People are not made for this kind of life.
-
The selfish misconception that induces you to transform into eternal laws of nature and of reason, the social forms springing from your present mode of production and form of property – historical relations that rise and disappear in the progress of production – this misconception you share with every ruling class that has preceded you. What you see clearly in the case of ancient property, what you admit in the case of feudal property, you are of course forbidden to admit in the case of your own bourgeois form of property.
Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.
On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.
The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by their parents? To this crime we plead guilty.
But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace home education by social.
And your education! Is not that also social, and determined by the social conditions under which you educate, by the intervention direct or indirect, of society, by means of schools, &c.? The Communists have not invented the intervention of society in education; they do but seek to alter the character of that intervention, and to rescue education from the influence of the ruling class.
The bourgeois clap-trap about the family and education, about the hallowed co-relation of parents and child, becomes all the more disgusting, the more, by the action of Modern Industry, all the family ties among the proletarians are torn asunder, and their children transformed into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labour.
I interpret that as ...the middle class are evil, we need to focus upon indoctrinating the younger generation with our message of total submission to the state and we need to sever the ties that bind the middle class parents with their children (in fact fuck it, they just said it themselves in the abolition of the family). The entire manifesto is based around key intentions all of which involve complete centralisation based around the reassurance of don't worry the state will administer and look after you. Only instead, as is illustrated in a terrific book call Harvest Of Sorrow in which Ukranian farmers with a slight independence were described as the Kulaks (bourgeoise) we need to smash these people and prevent them from looking after themselves, they should be producing grain for the greater good of the soviet union. Sobasically they seized all of their grain, millions starved to death and when they got rid of those people, the ones below them, were suddenly Kulaks in their eyes to. Aspects of communism would work in a utopian society where literal angels ran the state but instead it is the doctrine for evil.
I agree with you, that income tax isn't the only way, it's one of several ways. there are many strings to their bow but I was just illustrating how the wealth is really controlled, as opposed to people who think a million is something, it's chump change to these people. In fact the communism comparison begins to slowly become more and more apparent, as the authoritarian nature of this western society tightens it's grip. Some of have said that communism and capitalism were created to give people false paradigms, I don't know if the same group of people were the brain childs behind both, but nothing would surprise me anymore.
-
^^^With communism the situation is similiar to a dictatorship, in a utopian world with literal angels as the leaders, it would be pretty damn good. As this is never the case, both systems serve as tools for the evil. But I really don't want to talk about this communism stuff right now.
Here's more to the issue at hand:
Another very important aspect is the fact that you can't solve structural problems through individuals. The government is there to solve those kind of structural problems that individuals simply can not fix. By reducing taxes dramatically you take away the government's ability to do so. You shift the responsibilty towards the individual, which can never work for a number of reasons.
Let me tell you a little story:
There was this western dude, with western values and western morality. He was a business man, and on a business trip he went to India. Waking up in his hotel room, he got ready for a meeting and as soon as he stepped out of his room he saw a baby placed in front of it. He didn't understand what was going on. He asked people from the hotel who told him that this is a normal thing, families can't afford kids financially so they put them in front of doors of wealthy people. He was shocked as he could not understand how something so terrible could be considered normal and acceptable. He asked what he could do to help the baby, and he was told that he can give it to a church for 50 dollars. The church then takes care of it until it becomes 14 years old. Happier than ever, he willingly paid the church the 50 bucks, went back to the hotel and went to sleep with a smile on his face.
The next day, he opens his door and there are 40 babies in front of it.
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?
Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.
Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).
I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.
-
Karl Marx was a satanist. It is a documented fact.
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?
Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.
Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).
I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.
Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.
-
^^^With communism the situation is similiar to a dictatorship, in a utopian world with literal angels as the leaders, it would be pretty damn good. As this is never the case, both systems serve as tools for the evil. But I really don't want to talk about this communism stuff right now.
Here's more to the issue at hand:
Another very important aspect is the fact that you can't solve structural problems through individuals. The government is there to solve those kind of structural problems that individuals simply can not fix. By reducing taxes dramatically you take away the government's ability to do so. You shift the responsibilty towards the individual, which can never work for a number of reasons.
Let me tell you a little story:
There was this western dude, with western values and western morality. He was a business man, and on a business trip he went to India. Waking up in his hotel room, he got ready for a meeting and as soon as he stepped out of his room he saw a baby placed in front of it. He didn't understand what was going on. He asked people from the hotel who told him that this is a normal thing, families can't afford kids financially so they put them in front of doors of wealthy people. He was shocked as he could not understand how something so terrible could be considered normal and acceptable. He asked what he could do to help the baby, and he was told that he can give it to a church for 50 dollars. The church then takes care of it until it becomes 14 years old. Happier than ever, he willingly paid the church the 50 bucks, went back to the hotel and went to sleep with a smile on his face.
The next day, he opens his door and there are 40 babies in front of it.
Nothing you said explains how the US strived and expanded for so long before any incoe tax was brought into the picture. Marxism is a proven failure. Where are the proven failures of anarcho-capitalism?
-
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.
But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)
That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?
Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.
Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).
I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.
Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.
Its not about giving up, its about being realistic. People nowadays are too lazy or just blind to the facts to give a fuck about anything enough to rally around a cause. They would rather watch American Idol for the rest of their lives. Until you can get rid of or drastically reduce the amount of media/entertainment available, people are not going to get off their ass and do anything. Especially when you consider that all the mainstream news outlets are run by the people in charge, and they are going to make sure they scare people into doing what they want at the right times and tremendously downplay or even outright ignore serious issues that affect us all. Until people get a lot smarter and a lot less lazy, shit will not change.
-
i believe we already are doomed. if ron paul couldnt change being an expreianced politician that he is, than i believe no one person can change anything
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?
Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.
Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).
I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.
Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.
Its not about giving up, its about being realistic. People nowadays are too lazy or just blind to the facts to give a fuck about anything enough to rally around a cause. They would rather watch American Idol for the rest of their lives. Until you can get rid of or drastically reduce the amount of media/entertainment available, people are not going to get off their ass and do anything. Especially when you consider that all the mainstream news outlets are run by the people in charge, and they are going to make sure they scare people into doing what they want at the right times and tremendously downplay or even outright ignore serious issues that affect us all. Until people get a lot smarter and a lot less lazy, shit will not change.
Yea i feel what you saying homie. But, if people like yourself, who knows what's going on, dont act, then no one else will.
-
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.
But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)
That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.
So then how did the US strive with no income tax? You still haven't answered that.
-
Theres more to the entire thing than just taxes holmes.
Theres 11 parts to that video.
If you have time, you should watch it all,you'll get a better understanding of what's really going on, and why taxes are just the tip of the ice berg.
Its a lot bigger than that. Theres a bigger agenda behind it all homie. We're f***ked if we dont unite and act.
I've seen the whole video. It came on Free Speech TV a while back. The one thing I WILL do is refuse the RFA chip and Real ID. Everything else is pretty much not up to us.
well, isnt this country supposed to be for the people and by the people? Arent we supposed to be able to vote on policy?
Whats elections for? We do have power, people just refuse to realize it holmes. With that type of thinking, people dont act, and the powers that be, continue to take over without incident.
Thats why Bush keeps passing legislation without Congress. The open borders policy, the National ID card, the Amerieuro currency trying to be implemented without anyone's knowledge. No one is speaking up against it because its not widely reported by the media (which these TOP powers control).
I doubt it. We have very little power if any.The people at the top are gonna do everything they can to make sure they stay at the top. The masses are controlled through media, religion, money and force. Until we get more guns and nukes than the government, we can't do shit. You think they count our votes? Hell nah, they do that shit to make us think we have a say.
Yea, its prbably better to just give up.... cuz people in the past who've helped make change just gave up because they felt "Oh what can one person do." Thats how things get done. By giving up.
Its not about giving up, its about being realistic. People nowadays are too lazy or just blind to the facts to give a fuck about anything enough to rally around a cause. They would rather watch American Idol for the rest of their lives. Until you can get rid of or drastically reduce the amount of media/entertainment available, people are not going to get off their ass and do anything. Especially when you consider that all the mainstream news outlets are run by the people in charge, and they are going to make sure they scare people into doing what they want at the right times and tremendously downplay or even outright ignore serious issues that affect us all. Until people get a lot smarter and a lot less lazy, shit will not change.
Yea i feel what you saying homie. But, if people like yourself, who knows what's going on, dont act, then no one else will.
Fair enough, but what can we do? How do you go about it? its gonna take a lot more than a few posts on the dubcc TOT board.
-
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.
But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)
That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.
So then how did the US strive with no income tax? You still haven't answered that.
Listen my nigga, I know you don't like me and everything, but there is no need for pointless arguing. I have made a shitload of substantial points in this thread, if you disagree fine, but please respect it. The situation with the US from way back in the day is not comparable to right now. Slavery comes to mind.
Moral hazards are a problem, but abolishing the income tax alltogether is not the answer.
-
Anarcho-capitalism doesn't exist yet, so of course I can't show you a history book to prove its failures.
But I can sure as hell show you how the failures already show off in regular capitalism: Companies move east, westeners lose their jobs and everything that comes with that (less wealth, less people buying stuff, bad for economy, bad for the government etc)
That is just one of many examples. Anarcho-capitalism can suck my dick. Such a concept can end in civil war. Most people don't have enough income, responsibility, discipline or intellect to handle all the stuff the government handles for them.
So then how did the US strive with no income tax? You still haven't answered that.
Listen my nigga, I know you don't like me and everything, but there is no need for pointless arguing. I have made a shitload of substantial points in this thread, if you disagree fine, but please respect it. The situation with the US from way back in the day is not comparable to right now. Slavery comes to mind.
Moral hazards are a problem, but abolishing the income tax alltogether is not the answer.
Since when do I not like you?
Your points against anarcho-capitalism are fine, but the federal income tax in the US was not present for 50 years after slavery and it still to this day only brings in a third of federal revenue. Cut all the overseas spending and you'll be fine.
-
It looks like we're getting to something. First you were like people need to smarten up, take the L and try to get by without redistribution and the stuff the government takes care of and organizes for them. Now you only want to have the spending overseas to be affected by the tax cut. That's something I am more comfortable with, however, I want to know what exactly are you thinking of then you say overseas? There's only 2 reasonable things I can think of right now, being war and aid. With that said, free oil won't hurt in the long run and most aid that goes to third world countries is protectionism that is ruining exactly those "helped" countries in the long run. Both things are in a very cruel way good for the US, and thus worth spending. (From a mean point of view)
-
It looks like we're getting to something. First you were like people need to smarten up, take the L and try to get by without redistribution and the stuff the government takes care of and organizes for them. Now you only want to have the spending overseas to be affected by the tax cut. That's something I am more comfortable with, however, I want to know what exactly are you thinking of then you say overseas? There's only 2 reasonable things I can think of right now, being war and aid. With that said, free oil won't hurt in the long run and most aid that goes to third world countries is protectionism that is ruining exactly those "helped" countries in the long run. Both things are in a very cruel way good for the US, and thus worth spending. (From a mean point of view)
Ultimately I do believe in anarch-capitalism, but I don't think we can jump right into it. You need stages. And untamed people first need a dictatorship or monarchy to create the order, from there you move to a capitalist parliamentary democracy or republic, and then I believe the next step is an anarcho-capitalist true plebiscite based democracy. And to move from one stage to the next you'd need education to advance. I think it plebiscite votes are taken with a 5 question pamphlet and only those votes with at least 3 of 5 correct cont would be a good start.
Anyway, I meant overseas miltary operations in the US can be completely cut and right away nearly 70% of the third the income tax brings in is coverd. From there you can cut things like the Department of Education and the IRS and that trillion dollars will no longer be needed. One step at a time if you want to move towards real freedom.
-
I don't think that there is a perfect regime. Every system has its flaws. Some lack praticability, some lack the right economic incentives, some are simply inefficient, etc... Therefore the flaws I see in anarcho-capitalism aren't automatically making this system terrible. I just think that the US is already capitalistic enough, what would happen if one tried to make steps towards your proposal can't be anticipated precisely enough, there are too many intangibles and shit... I just don't think it would "work". You can have a different opinion. What I don't accept, however, is when people flat out say "yo, abolishing the income tax would be tight as fuck mayne, I'd be ballin my nigga"... that's just ignorant.
-
I don't think that there is a perfect regime. Every system has its flaws. Some lack praticability, some lack the right economic incentives, some are simply inefficient, etc... Therefore the flaws I see in anarcho-capitalism aren't automatically making this system terrible. I just think that the US is already capitalistic enough, what would happen if one tried to make steps towards your proposal can't be anticipated precisely enough, there are too many intangibles and shit... I just don't think it would "work". You can have a different opinion. What I don't accept, however, is when people flat out say "yo, abolishing the income tax would be tight as fuck mayne, I'd be ballin my nigga"... that's just ignorant.
Anarcho can never be perfect. I just think a free market would be "better" than the current US system. Keep in mind I also don't agree with intellectual property laws. A free market medical system would lead to cheaper medicine. Malpractice insurance would be waved if a patient was in real need. I believe people would be covered that way. Simple fear of losing customers would lead to self regulation of safe drugs. That's what I think at least.
I don't believe we as a people can be perfect, and neither can a system created by people. I'll leave perfection to your pal Jesus. Anarcho Capitalism for the rest of us.
The income tax for me isn't about saving my money. It's about serfdom and how I don't believe it has any plave in modern society.
-
I don't get Americans and their problem with taxes. Taxes are fucking normal in a functional government. The taxes in Germany are higher than the taxes in the US. Why are you guys bitching so much about it?
So you're cool then if we raise your taxes another 10%? How about another 30?
What level do they have to get to, before you say "enough" ? America is past that level already. The answer is it's your opinion. There's no right or wrong level of taxes to spend, my opinion is American's pay too many taxes. I can spend my money to enrich my life better than the government can. I need the government to protect the country and deliver the mail. Anything else, they should get the fuck out of. They run the school systems. The school systems suck. Private schools whip public school's asses on almost every measureable parameter, they're even CHEAPER than public schools, only the public schools are paid for out of everybody's pocket before they get their check so nobody notices. If the government would give us all that money back, we could all pay to send our kids to private schools who would be competitive. The government wants to raise taxes and run the doctors office now? How about "no" thank you I don't believe that would be a good idea.