West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Outlaw Immortal on February 04, 2008, 10:59:59 PM
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Now guys, the purpose of this advanced form of polling, is to determine the way he analyzes politics.
Real American I would love to hear your views on this.
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A few cats on here
I heard sayin [say] they like I.T's music but not necessarily his message. The dude is a beast of a writer regardless of his politics or philosophy, although I enjoy it all, I gets off.
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Yeah, I like (some of) the music of dead prez, regardless of the depraved nature of their message. Besides, next time you make a poll, don't stuff in two funny options you know people are going to vote for :P I had to control myself to answer in a serious manner.
In no way Real American will approve of what Immortal Technique is saying, if that's your question. At least, his character surely won't.
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yea word^^ i dont think real american is capable of liking IT's music, he must really have too hard times keeping and preserving his take on politics, cuz the immorality of that is ways too immense. so i dont think he could cope with such music, if he seriously listened to it, itd make him doubt, but for a patriot its ways too risky
so my answers NO
I myself like dead prez music even if its racist as hell, its very nice lyrically and musicwise, and for me thats what music is all about.
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They're preaching socialism, which is probably even worse than racism to me :D
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They're preaching socialism, which is probably even worse than racism to me :D
are you for real? :laugh:
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They're preaching socialism, which is probably even worse than racism to me :D
are you for real? :laugh:
Yes, my dear. To glorify theft and denounce achievement is far worse than to discriminate and express hatred through stereotypes. At least the latter is based on some perception of truth.
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stop reciting cold war propaganda and distinguish socialism and stalinism/post-stalinism
1. in socialism theft is opposed
and 2.in socialism the achievemnt is not denounced. They try to make achievements available to a greater number of people as opposed to a small chosen few like it is nowadays
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^ The difference is only in nuance. A horse and a pony may not be the same breed, but they're still animals and part of the very same horse family. Just because modern day socialists don't tend to kill the way Stalin did, doesn't make their philosophy any less poisonous.
Socialism aims for total equality for every man. Whether he is the greatest, most virtuous person alive, or the lowest possible thug; socialism preaches how they are all equal and should be treated equally. There is no expression of value and no judgment passed. Now, it is a common fact that not every man is born with the same potential. In a way, life was never 'fair' to begin with. Some people have physiological or psychological advantages, some have a wealthy heritage (either in posessions or in achievements and position) which has been achieved before they were born. Humans are not equal, even though they may have great potential by their very nature. Not everyone develops his potentials so well; not everyone is willing enough to do so. Yet there are numerous stories of poor children who started reading and grew out to be something fabulous. Some developed their physical skills and became sportsmen. I didn't have the potential to do the latter, but do you hear me bitching about it?
In trying to create so called equal opportunities, socialism takes care for everyone, regardless of who or what they are. Every human being gets a heated home, he gets food on his plate and some funds to buy a tv from. But do you believe houses and tv's grow on trees, where the government can just distribute the harvest as it pleases? No. To build a house, you need carpenters, masons, people expert at furniture and so on. There's a butcher, a farmer and a baker who have to produce food. These are their products, they are created through their efforts. They are virtuous in their own way, through producing. These are people who take care of themselves, and then the state comes and tells them to pay taxes, so that the people who do not produce can eat the food they worked hard for. Socialism is theft by its nature. Robin Hood is the most depraved fairy tale character in human history.
Now, I am absolutely not against equal opportunities. The thing is, the leeching nature of socialism creates a backward atmosphere which oppresses the advancement of humanity. Thugs are looked at as if their behavior is a result of a bad environment. The environment did wrong; the thug must be helped. That's acting as if thugs have no free will; as if they can't control their behavior; as if their behavior is the only way to survive. So we treat them well in our penitentiaries - we give them cable tv with extra porn channels. We try to rehabilitate them through saying "What you did was wrong. Don't do it again". Yet they'll remember the porn channels they had on tv in their cell blocks. They've basically been rewarded for their attitude, and since they weren't considered fully responsible for their own actions, it isn't likely they'll learn much from it. Depravity is being rewarded. How's that?
And then there's an poor single lady who says she doesn't get enough from the state. She doesn't work, and she doesn't have enough money to keep her children satisfied. She demands more.
Well hello? The state's keeping you alive, and you dare demanding more money to satisfy the needs of you and the children you couldn't afford in the first place? She's being fed through the virtues and achievements of great men and women, and she thinks she's being treated UNFAIRLY? She's a fucking leech. In today's society, anyone with half a brain can think of some invention to make money off. It's called free enterprise, and we don't need socialism to establish that. Be creative and do it. Or develop some skills and use them to earn your living. Write a book; knit some socks; be an inventer; lift up your skirt for the mayor (if you're in a depraved state of mind anyway, what difference would that make?). ANYONE can earn a living. And if you can't, on what grounds do you plea society should owe you anything?
In conclusion, yes, achievement is denounced in socialism in its absolute form. It basically states how any personal achievement, is an attempt to overcome the mediocrity of society. Society will make its claim; it will demand your achievement and make it its own. Every man is equal, and your efforts will be another drop in the ocean that ultimately won't benefit you. But why should you care, because personal benefit is not to be strived for anyway? Down goes the spiral of human development, until we've all turned into leechers, trying to drain something that's already been drained. Yeah, viva la revolución.
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You seem to be outraged at leechers. You seem to hate the idea of people's hard work turned into something others use for their benefit without any regard for the producers. You seem to resent theft. So far so good, I think anyone would agree that all these things are bad. But how much of this can be attributed to social- or socialist inspired- policies pursued by governments and how much of these undoubtedly destructive trends can be attributed to the most powerful elements in western industrial societies, namely the corporate entities and the giant state subsidies THEY receive. If you look at the evidence, you'll see that all the things that you're rightly concerned with are predominantly caused by the greatest beneficiary of the most anti-social policies. And this is not to suggest there isn't such a thing as social leeching...yes there is, it would be stupid to deny that, but the proportion of this phenomenon is so meager in comparison to corporate leeching, theft and exploitation that it faints in comparison. And here's the question, if this is so, and this is a mere truism, why do you pay so much attention to such a flimsy determinant and don't look at the much bigger factors- namely, the MNC.
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They're preaching socialism, which is probably even worse than racism to me :D
Well, then you're obviously not going to like it when my revolution begins and a sovereign socialist Pan-African Republic of America replaces the United States. Furthermore, my form of socialism is race-based rather than class-based, which means that I take wealth from the crackers and Jews and put it back into the hands of blacks (and MAYBE the spics, provided they stop acting like retards in L.A.)
Also, you have totally fucked-up ideas, dude. "A horse and a pony may not be the same breed, but they're still animals and part of the very same horse family", LOL at you for being so retarded. What are you, a fucking McCarthyist?
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immortal technique has no swagger, neither does the white boy
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stop reciting cold war propaganda and distinguish socialism and stalinism/post-stalinism
1. in socialism theft is opposed
and 2.in socialism the achievemnt is not denounced. They try to make achievements available to a greater number of people as opposed to a small chosen few like it is nowadays
WORD.
I bet most of you on here live in liberal democracies with UNIONS, food stamps, unemployment assistance, community colleges and soup kitchens! Yet yall say you don't believe in socialism, the West IS SOCIALIST you fools, its why we leading the world you idiots (that and nationalist safeguards like tariffs, import/export controls)! You want REAL capitalism? Go to to ASIA, AFRICA, go to Ethiopa or the PHILIPPINES and get shot up or starve because you simply don't have money, where you REALLYain't shit when you ain't got scrilla. You fucks COULDN't HANDLE living in the REAL FREE MARKET CAPITALIST WORLD. You have the luxury to say "fuck socialism" because your country has benefited from socialist inspired governance for so long. Now its all gonna get shittier for us in the WEST because the IMF, WORLD BANK, want us all on a level playing field and have forced us over the decades to destroy our nationalist economic safeguards in the name of your naive belief in one world free market economics and opposition to nationalist thought and inspired governance. Of course for the elite, its OK to have everybody on a level playing field because they are always going to be the exception, its the middle class who will need to struggle. Ahh well, New World Order, still the same World.
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^^^^^ Dude, having some government programs intended to give us benefits for our taxes is hardly socialism.
Also, if Eleven 2 Three thinks that kind of shit is theft, I will gladly rob his bitch ass any day. There's nothing I love more than rolling through a neighborhood of middle-class Republican pricks and putting my Glock .40 (which I can buy in this country thanks to their retarded pro-2nd Amendment asses) to their domes and taking their shit.
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^^^^^ Dude, having some government programs intended to give us benefits for our taxes is hardly socialism.
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Your taxes go towards giving other people food, they go towards a road or a highway you may never use. They are in the grain of socialist philosophy, its just that people have this view of socialism as an extreme (maybe as a result of Cold War sterotyping), when it actually encompasses the very basic of human needs, whether provided by the state or private groups or individuals.
Peace, Bread and Land.
-Bolshevik slogan.
Whether you call such programs socialist or not dosn't actually matter anyway alot of politicians have givin up using the term 'socialism' because of the stigmata attached, although the programs they promote could be argued to be within the grain of socialist philosophy. Today, the socialist tradition in the West is more about responding to the excesses and inequalities of capitalism, along way away from traditional Marxism.
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Who is Immortal Technique?
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^^ lol, you for real nigga?
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^^ lol, you for real nigga?
No, he's not, because we've talked about Immortal Technique before and he's posted his opinion (which is, of course, unfavorable).
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There's nothing I love more than rolling through a neighborhood of middle-class Republican pricks and putting my Glock .40 (which I can buy in this country thanks to their retarded pro-2nd Amendment asses) to their domes and taking their shit.
lmfao
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
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Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects.
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
Perhaps the way you put it, it does say something about IT's fans as persons: they're wannabe-smart followers.
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You seem to be outraged at leechers. You seem to hate the idea of people's hard work turned into something others use for their benefit without any regard for the producers. You seem to resent theft. So far so good, I think anyone would agree that all these things are bad. But how much of this can be attributed to social- or socialist inspired- policies pursued by governments and how much of these undoubtedly destructive trends can be attributed to the most powerful elements in western industrial societies, namely the corporate entities and the giant state subsidies THEY receive. If you look at the evidence, you'll see that all the things that you're rightly concerned with are predominantly caused by the greatest beneficiary of the most anti-social policies. And this is not to suggest there isn't such a thing as social leeching...yes there is, it would be stupid to deny that, but the proportion of this phenomenon is so meager in comparison to corporate leeching, theft and exploitation that it faints in comparison. And here's the question, if this is so, and this is a mere truism, why do you pay so much attention to such a flimsy determinant and don't look at the much bigger factors- namely, the MNC.
I'm merely stating how I'm against all subsidies, not just the civil ones. The state is meant to protect people from physical and non-physical acts of violence. It is meant to protect people's property and their freedom, not to take it from them. That is all. In a fully free economy, the rest should function automatically.
Of course, that's a utopia thus far, which is why I say Ron Paul could be harmful if he were elected for president; you can't just -change- the way a nation functions by making a couple of radical governmental changes. That would be destructive, simply because people aren't ready for it.
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They're preaching socialism, which is probably even worse than racism to me :D
Well, then you're obviously not going to like it when my revolution begins and a sovereign socialist Pan-African Republic of America replaces the United States. Furthermore, my form of socialism is race-based rather than class-based, which means that I take wealth from the crackers and Jews and put it back into the hands of blacks (and MAYBE the spics, provided they stop acting like retards in L.A.)
Class-based socialism? Go back to school homeboy, that's a contradiction in terms. And I just don't see how race-based socialism is any less contradictive. If you're going to be like Hitler and create an übermensch, what about the half breed Africans? What about the north-african races? Why allow spics when you want a world full of blacks? Or is your anti-white attitude simply a form of repercussion, in which case I should counter your movement because some 'nigger' stole my bike?
Also, you have totally fucked-up ideas, dude. "A horse and a pony may not be the same breed, but they're still animals and part of the very same horse family", LOL at you for being so retarded. What are you, a fucking McCarthyist?
Social Democracy is merely a watered down version of Socialism. Lol @ you not understanding the metaphor.
Also, if Eleven 2 Three thinks that kind of shit is theft, I will gladly rob his bitch ass any day. There's nothing I love more than rolling through a neighborhood of middle-class Republican pricks and putting my Glock .40 (which I can buy in this country thanks to their retarded pro-2nd Amendment asses) to their domes and taking their shit.
Exit the Vondelpark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vondelpark) through the west entrance and enter Amsterdam Oud-Zuid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Oud-Zuid), turn left and follow the big road heading south. Cross the first intersection and enter the second road on the left, then the first on the right. There you'll find me waving at you from my second story window in my posh neighborhood.
:wavey:
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
Perhaps the way you put it, it does say something about IT's fans as persons: they're wannabe-smart followers.
Get the fuck outta here. Listening to Dead Prez and Cam'ron, there is no room to call out anybody for listening to anything.
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
Perhaps the way you put it, it does say something about IT's fans as persons: they're wannabe-smart followers.
Get the fuck outta here. Listening to Dead Prez and Cam'ron, there is no room to call out anybody for listening to anything.
lol
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
Perhaps the way you put it, it does say something about IT's fans as persons: they're wannabe-smart followers.
Get the fuck outta here. Listening to Dead Prez and Cam'ron, there is no room to call out anybody for listening to anything.
Please note that I was only pointing out that, unlike what he said, there is a statement in his words. I personally wouldn't call IT's listeners wannabe smartasses.
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
Perhaps the way you put it, it does say something about IT's fans as persons: they're wannabe-smart followers.
Get the fuck outta here. Listening to Dead Prez and Cam'ron, there is no room to call out anybody for listening to anything.
Please note that I was only pointing out that, unlike what he said, there is a statement in his words. I personally wouldn't call IT's listeners wannabe smartasses.
Good. *sticks gun back into the holster*
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I'm merely stating how I'm against all subsidies, not just the civil ones. The state is meant to protect people from physical and non-physical acts of violence. It is meant to protect people's property and their freedom, not to take it from them. That is all. In a fully free economy, the rest should function automatically.
Of course, that's a utopia thus far, which is why I say Ron Paul could be harmful if he were elected for president; you can't just -change- the way a nation functions by making a couple of radical governmental changes. That would be destructive, simply because people aren't ready for it.
I think there's a moral problem with equating social spending to corporate subsidies, because social spending is based on the assumption we should care about the less fortunate, corporate subsidy is based on the assumption corporations own the state and that therefore they can capitalize on public funds. Second of all, It seems perfectly just to say I'm against all subsidy and there's no double standard but if you do it when the preponderance is corporate subsidy and you pick the social one to criticize...it raises an eyebrow. In addition, your anarcho-capitalist view is problematic because you overlook the possibility that someone other than the state can also deprive people of freedom for example by accumulation of excessive fortune.
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Class-based socialism? Go back to school homeboy, that's a contradiction in terms.
Oh, you trying to get smart with me, fag boy? I know that socialism aims to break down the idea of class barriers; I meant that I aim to re-distribute wealth by taking it from races who are part of the 10%, as opposed to the wealthiest classes.
Don't you EVER talk that way to me again or you'll lose your fucking hands.
And I just don't see how race-based socialism is any less contradictive. If you're going to be like Hitler and create an übermensch, what about the half breed Africans? What about the north-african races? Why allow spics when you want a world full of blacks? Or is your anti-white attitude simply a form of repercussion, in which case I should counter your movement because some 'nigger' stole my bike?
It is what Allah wills. You are part of the Yakub Crew, so you don't get to counter shit. You are supposed to accept your fate in Hell while the Original Man re-conquers the planet.
Social Democracy is merely a watered down version of Socialism. Lol @ you not understanding the metaphor.
I do understand the metaphor, cracker. But it's a RETARDED metaphor. How about this metaphor: Laissez-faire capitalism is just a watered-down form of mercantilism. Makes about as much sense as yours. LOL @ you for thinking you're so smart. The GOD is just gonna have to keep serving you time and time again, isn't He?
Exit the Vondelpark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vondelpark) through the west entrance and enter Amsterdam Oud-Zuid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amsterdam_Oud-Zuid), turn left and follow the big road heading south. Cross the first intersection and enter the second road on the left, then the first on the right. There you'll find me waving at you from my second story window in my posh neighborhood.
:wavey:
Oh, in good time, your hood will fall under my control, and you'll be sent to the concentration camps with the rest of your kind. In good time, white boy.
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I'm extremely "left wing" liberal and I get bored of IT's cliche'd angry pseudo intellectual rhymes sometimes. the hot topic generation think they can just DL an album of his and cop a che guevarra shirt and consider themselves "with it"....to be all up in his business and take his shit to heart is pretty shallow in my opinion, so liking immortal technique doesnt really say anything about who you are as a person.
'I'm extremely left wing'...who the fuck gives a shit, it just proves you're just as stupid as extreme right wings.
And what the fuck do you mean by 'Pseudo intellectual rhymes' everything he has brought out has been factual, just go on his fuckin myspace or viper records site, and read about the protests, conferences and charity groups he holds, or go and read his updated blogs about current events.
Im not doubtin that alot of faggots think they are revolutionary cause they got che shirts, listen to his music and say 'oh ye fuck bush', theyre just as bad as those gay Greenday fans. But at the end of the day, he's criticizing lobbyist groups, specific organisations, political parties, senators, head of councils, religious leaders from Jewish, Christian and Muslim backgrounds. He's bringing everything outright and giving his viewers the choice to listen, then read, and then make a decision. Hes not shoving it in your mouth as if his way is the only way, and hes said this constantly. Obviously the artists message doesn't make the listener a better person, its what the listener does with his message. But still it is a good indication that the listener has shown interest in such social and political topics.
The whole centre of my point is Real American is a douche, and still is a virgin.