West Coast Connection Forum

The Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:11:23 AM

Title: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:11:23 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:18:43 AM
D-Nice copy and paste the shit you find relevant from the previous thread and move it over here  ;)

Aight. I will look through some quotes.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: 187Proof on March 08, 2008, 11:21:20 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.
I gotta completely agree with ya bro. Point blank.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:24:57 AM
Here are some quotes to get this dialogue going. Most are from Chad's thread but are all good points.

commercially it might hurt,but would cats accept it? I mean if he went on some straight MC shit over some "boom bap" beats,would cats say he's "sucking" east coast "dick"? Is there way for Snoop to grow while still "pleasing" fans of his "gangster rap" style?

I'd love to hear snoop do a straight hip-hop album, just get people like premier, pete rock, buckwild, lord finesse, maybe rza, and some other cats to do the beats, and then have either scratched choruses or no choruses, like just back to back verses from snoop and others


he'd have to come hard and really rip it though. it'd be dope with lady of rage, she always kills premiers beats, and i'd like to see kurupt on those types of beats too. maybe get other heavy spitters from the west on there too, ras kass, crooked i, e-40... tear some shit up!

That'd be snoop on some MCing shit though, so he'd have to step his game up, though we know he can, like he killed Think About It on BCT, so he's still got it


I think he'd make some better fans that way, some actual hip-hop fans - his fans at the moment are either people who want to see him make a west coast g-funk classic again, or little kids who like saying "drop it like its hot" or singing "sensual seduction" in the playground. he doesn't really have any fans who are checking for him as a rapper/MC


Snoop is always putting quality work over good hiphop beats, check out these

One Chance (make it good)
Think About it
The One & Only
Protector of 1472
In This Life (Gangstarr)
Living The Life (on Biggie's album)
Sounds of my Heat (from Easy Mo Bee's compilation)
See Ya When I get There
Mama Raised me

actually Snoop sounds best over eastcoast jazzy beats , i would like to hear him over some beats by Pete Rock...would be nice


I think this is a major problem in rap, especially gangsta rap, they wont let the artist grow, thats probably why some rappers cannot make albums or cant get a good deal cuz the fans  stuck them with an era thats not even marketable anymore. Is it that hard to understand that when you are in your mid 30's its basically dumb to talk about Being a Gangsta or killing people or fucking hoes? If this album had the same type of songs as before , it would be a failliure, he's trying to expand, he wants to reach the young adult too, not only the 16 years old kids that just discovered Doggystyle

Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: HEC on March 08, 2008, 11:29:40 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

I agree 100%
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on March 08, 2008, 11:30:54 AM
Because West Coast fans are 13 to 19 years old.. they were too young to dig the G-Funk Era, so its new to them, so they are wondering why the artists cant drop shit like that anymore, because they didnt not have the chance to grow with the artist and get with his evolution. and In my opinion... the West Is just a coast on a map, thats it, to me music is music, as long as its dope in my ears, and shiit West Coast Music aint about Gangsta Rap only... Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to , but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:31:46 AM
Here are a couple points that are  ??? to me but I am not here to put people on blast. Nas went from Nasty to Esco back to Escobar like the song say and he survived. But with Snoop it seems like he loses more and more fans with every album. And maybe Snoop is to blame partially for that but it's his career at the end of the day and I dig alot of the new producers and concepts he has tried. Even the gap in gangsta rap and so called backpack rap out here on the west. Most don't even appreciate a Murs, Evidence, Blu & Exile, etc for making just GOOD MUSIC. It gets ignored because it don't sound like somebody else's shit.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:34:00 AM
Because West Coast fans are 13 to 19 years old.. they were too young to dig the G-Funk Era, so its new to them, so they are wondering why the artists cant drop shit like that anymore, because they didnt not have the chance to grow with the artist and get with his evolution. and In my opinion... the West Is just a coast on a map, thats it, to me music is music, as long as its dope in my ears, and shiit West Coast Music aint about Gangsta Rap only... Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to , but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough

Co-sign.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Dre-Day on March 08, 2008, 11:37:53 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

well i think it's because of multiple things; fear for the unknown, judging too soon and perhaps that they pay too much attention to the "gangsta" image of snoop.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:41:48 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.



well i think it's because of multiple things; fear for the unknown, judging too soon and perhaps that they pay too much attention to the "gangsta" image of snoop.

True. Ice Cube has evolved a bit in his career, not as much as Snoop as far as the different sounds and everything. He went through that whole Clubbin/Don Mega stage. Snoop can't seem to make a album anyone would like IMO. LOL!
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 11:43:10 AM
D-Nice copy and paste the shit you find relevant from the previous thread and move it over here  ;)

Aight. I will look through some quotes.

Dope,show the negative haters  ;) :P
Nice to see you back in action  ;)
Seems like we got a new member (UCC) that can bring some shit to the table.
Hope he stays active.

Yeah I am slowing getting back into it.  ;D
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: HEC on March 08, 2008, 11:47:08 AM
D have you heard "Ego Trippin" and if so what are your opinions about it?
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on March 08, 2008, 11:49:07 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.



well i think it's because of multiple things; fear for the unknown, judging too soon and perhaps that they pay too much attention to the "gangsta" image of snoop.

True. Ice Cube has evolved a bit in his career, not as much as Snoop as far as the different sounds and everything. He went through that whole Clubbin/Don Mega stage. Snoop can't seem to make a album anyone would like IMO. LOL!

Thing is...like I said before Ice Cube & Snoop Dogg are two different rappers, but fans do not see that because they were both big and known as gangsta rappers, and for now i do not see Ice Cube as a gangsta rapper, he is more on some political stuff, but because of the beats he uses and the way he flows  people still see it as Gangsta rapper, but give Ice Cube's  lyrics to Kam or Mos Def or Common and U'll get another view of it.

As for Snoop well he is The Rap Male version of Madonna...
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 12:01:59 PM
D have you heard "Ego Trippin" and if so what are your opinions about it?

Nah I haven't. Going to cop it on the 11th. Only heard 2 songs so far.

Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.



well i think it's because of multiple things; fear for the unknown, judging too soon and perhaps that they pay too much attention to the "gangsta" image of snoop.

True. Ice Cube has evolved a bit in his career, not as much as Snoop as far as the different sounds and everything. He went through that whole Clubbin/Don Mega stage. Snoop can't seem to make a album anyone would like IMO. LOL!

Thing is...like I said before Ice Cube & Snoop Dogg are two different rappers, but fans do not see that because they were both big and known as gangsta rappers, and for now i do not see Ice Cube as a gangsta rapper, he is more on some political stuff, but because of the beats he uses and the way he flows  people still see it as Gangsta rapper, but give Ice Cube's  lyrics to Kam or Mos Def or Common and U'll get another view of it.

As for Snoop well he is The Rap Male version of Madonna...

I definitely agree with you and I am not comparing the 2 as artists. Just comparing the fact that both have tried different trends and how its worked out for both. Xzibit too is a example. Now people have left him for dead because he does not work with Dre anymore.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on March 08, 2008, 12:05:50 PM
yep... damn shame, something thats crossing my mind though.. Would West Coast Fans would consider Glasses Malone song a West coast Song  if Young Jeezy was flowing instead of him... funny how a name could change everything when style is really similar to another
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 12:09:51 PM
yep... damn shame, something thats crossing my mind though.. Would West Coast Fans would consider Glasses Malone song a West coast Song  if Young Jeezy was flowing instead of him... funny how a name could change everything when style is really similar to another

Probably would write it off as a South song. Same with the Mike Jones My 64 song.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: 4108 on March 08, 2008, 12:27:29 PM
. . . .predominant in westcoast fans, but its a universal thing with Hip-Hop really. usually happens when you expect to get a new service/treatment you've come to expect from a long-lasting product.


snoop's siamese fanbase is majorily his own fault, especially when he takes it upon himself to do innovative and new ventures like Rhythm & Gangsta and Ego Trippin'. by doing that you have a split ratio, some will either love it or some will hate it. doing anything after awhile becomes routine (Snoop has made it "routine" to do both: 1) innovative new ventures, while still backtracking to the, 2) gangsta-rap cliches). so he is never going to actually please both fanbases until he can get a proper, consistent compromise of the two. I dont see that happening anytime soon, he has the potential and talent for it but the direction not necessarily.

also: am I alone when I say the execution of R&G is far superior to that of Ego Trippin'?
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 12:50:15 PM
That is a good point also 4108.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 08, 2008, 01:22:45 PM
To say Snoop would need 2 drop a "Hip Hop" album of East coast beats (bcuz thats wat YOU love) is fuckin' wack.  The dubcc fans just wana hear Snoop ova 808 drums and Gangsta/Jazzy melodies.  But some of ya'll do put it in a good perspective though, maybe Snoop should drop a double album, 1 for tha older generation of Snoop fans and 1 for the newer.  U cant say Snoop is loosin' fans bcuz u still play DoggyStyle like it came out this mornin', thats like sayin' 2Pac is better NOW than then he waz back then.......????..... riiiite.   just bcuz u dont like it doesnt mean u have 2 brew hate and jealousy ova anotha man's work.  When I hear a classic album from some1 on tha internet forums, then i'll start 2 second guess people's OPINIONS.  Snoop is the Rap Version of Madonna, he can do shit like Rn'G and then turn around n drop a "Deep Cover 2010", Snoop is tha shit- stop denyin' urselfs.  I'm not a dickryder but 2 say that niggas fallin' off or loosin' his fans and his ways is fuckin' histerical.  just like my man David Banner said, ALL u folx wana hear is the "struggle", "money", "cars", "sex", "crime", "drugs", "love" songs, once an artists steps out that box nobody would wana hear it, honestly could u imagine a song if Snoop was rappin' about bein' a bird- maybe he could be a bird of coke and tell a story but otha than that that shit would be wack.  dont b so judgemental on somethin that doesnt envolve u
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: UCC on March 08, 2008, 02:20:08 PM
I would love to see some musical growth - if he put out a cd with him singing, and it was dope singing and he did it over really dope beats, no problem.

The problem is if you make a weak album, with 3/4s of the beats being so-so filler tracks, the raps sounding rushed and uninspired and like you're on autopilot, and you have these cheesy hooks that directly appeal to kids, then you have to expect people to call you out on it. You can't hide behind the excuse of 'oh, but I'm trying something different! Why won't you let me grow as an artist?' - it's like fine, you can do what you like, but I'm not spending money to buy something that is half-assed. It's like 'support the artists, support the west coast!' - not if they're making some wack shit you're not feeling, where is the sense in that, things only improve if you stand up and say hey, this shit isn't really good enough

Real Snoop fans don't go, "well gee snoop, thanks for another kind of ok album" to file away under 'snoop albums that aren't half as good as Doggystyle' - real Snoop fans know how fucking dope he can be on the mic, doesn't matter if he's talking gangsta shit, doesn't matter if he's talking about whatever, or singing, as long as it sounds dope. It must be mad frustrating for him hearing people always asking about if he's hooked up with Dre again, or people always talking about Doggystyle as his best album, but that's what fans want, that level of quality, and real fans will always keep on at him because they know he has it in him to do another truly amazing album

His new album isn't awful. It's better than a lot of things out there, and I still enjoy hearing Snoops style, but once you know how much better he can be, it seems such a shame to settle for less. In the future, Ego Trippin is not going to be mentioned in the same sentence with great albums such as Chronic, Doggstyle, Illmatic, 36 Chambers, etc, it's a here today gone tomorrow album, but it doesn't have to be that way, he can make something great


There's a reason Doggystyle is his most popular album and is named as one of the best rap albums ever. When I first heard that album my jaw dropped as soon as I heard each beat on that album. I didn't sit around thinking, damn, do I like this album? I'ma have to give it a few more spins. I didn't go, mmm, 6 tracks I've heard are kind of so-so, but maybe the album will pick itself up in the next few tracks. No. It was mindblowing within the first few seconds of each track! And then the verses, same shit, there isn't a weak verse on there, everything is so ill

It's more about quality control than anything else, in my opinion. I don't care what he raps about, I don't really care if he has g-funk beats or neptunes beats or whatever. What I want is an album where I'm constantly going 'holy shit!', on both the beats and the verses.
This is what Dre does and is why Chronic and Doggystyle are so dope, because he takes his time and makes sure he ONLY has tracks which hit you like that. If the beat doesn't make your brain melt within the first bar, then throw it away until you find a beat that does, if a verse is kinda lame and just ok, scrap it until you write something that's insane
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: WestCoasta on March 08, 2008, 02:21:25 PM
it's not just West Coast, it's people

trust me, it's not like West Coast fans are the only ones who get weird about music
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: thisoneguy360 on March 08, 2008, 02:23:32 PM
I'm all for growth, i'm just not down with shit like "Sexual Eruption"
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 08, 2008, 04:42:08 PM
I would love to see some musical growth - if he put out a cd with him singing, and it was dope singing and he did it over really dope beats, no problem.

The problem is if you make a weak album, with 3/4s of the beats being so-so filler tracks, the raps sounding rushed and uninspired and like you're on autopilot, and you have these cheesy hooks that directly appeal to kids, then you have to expect people to call you out on it. You can't hide behind the excuse of 'oh, but I'm trying something different! Why won't you let me grow as an artist?' - it's like fine, you can do what you like, but I'm not spending money to buy something that is half-assed. It's like 'support the artists, support the west coast!' - not if they're making some wack shit you're not feeling, where is the sense in that, things only improve if you stand up and say hey, this shit isn't really good enough

Real Snoop fans don't go, "well gee snoop, thanks for another kind of ok album" to file away under 'snoop albums that aren't half as good as Doggystyle' - real Snoop fans know how fucking dope he can be on the mic, doesn't matter if he's talking gangsta shit, doesn't matter if he's talking about whatever, or singing, as long as it sounds dope. It must be mad frustrating for him hearing people always asking about if he's hooked up with Dre again, or people always talking about Doggystyle as his best album, but that's what fans want, that level of quality, and real fans will always keep on at him because they know he has it in him to do another truly amazing album

His new album isn't awful. It's better than a lot of things out there, and I still enjoy hearing Snoops style, but once you know how much better he can be, it seems such a shame to settle for less. In the future, Ego Trippin is not going to be mentioned in the same sentence with great albums such as Chronic, Doggstyle, Illmatic, 36 Chambers, etc, it's a here today gone tomorrow album, but it doesn't have to be that way, he can make something great


There's a reason Doggystyle is his most popular album and is named as one of the best rap albums ever. When I first heard that album my jaw dropped as soon as I heard each beat on that album. I didn't sit around thinking, damn, do I like this album? I'ma have to give it a few more spins. I didn't go, mmm, 6 tracks I've heard are kind of so-so, but maybe the album will pick itself up in the next few tracks. No. It was mindblowing within the first few seconds of each track! And then the verses, same shit, there isn't a weak verse on there, everything is so ill

It's more about quality control than anything else, in my opinion. I don't care what he raps about, I don't really care if he has g-funk beats or neptunes beats or whatever. What I want is an album where I'm constantly going 'holy shit!', on both the beats and the verses.
This is what Dre does and is why Chronic and Doggystyle are so dope, because he takes his time and makes sure he ONLY has tracks which hit you like that. If the beat doesn't make your brain melt within the first bar, then throw it away until you find a beat that does, if a verse is kinda lame and just ok, scrap it until you write something that's insane


dogg all tha albums u mentioned were from tha 92/94 era, even Snoop said himself he cant recreate that shit.  exactly wat r u expectin', not just from Snoop but every artist in EVERY genre.  ur settin' tha bar so high that it cant b touched, not even by jesus himself.  the chronic ONLY took FOUR MONTHS, and Doggystyle took less than a year.  half tha shit they were rappin about didnt even match tha rhyme scheme that tha song was about. 

wats wrong wit' recreatin urself every time u come out, just like obama change has gotta come.  since this has bcome anotha Ego Trippin thread i mite as well say all u want 2 hear is Nate, Dre, DPG, Rage, WG on his albums only, bcuz keep it real thats wat u want, just like most ppl.  but 2 me ive grown up wit' Snoop since Doggystyle and im lovin' this new direction, i couldnt imagine him tryna release anotha Doggystyle- that whole concept would b outdated.  ALL Dr. Dre beats and only DPG features, if u ask me Dr. Dre aint tha greatest producer anymore, Nate cant harmonize like he used 2, rage's voice is kinda off, and Daz n' Kurupt are fuckin' wack- even though Kurupt MURDERED that freestyle in tha new Snoop video.

Snoop is bigger than Doggstyle now.  Dre is backed in2 a corner wit' havin' 2 worry about droppin anotha album better than the chronic issues *kinda like tha sophmore jinx even though its his 3rd solo*.  WG/Nate is kool but they aint really that fresh anymore.  DPG fell off ALONG time ago, even though i still respect them, im not gonna buy a new album, not wit dem niggaz still flowin like that.  Now wen it comes 2 niggaz like Soopafly, Quik, Cube, Game, Bad Lucc, and prolly a few more niggaz out there they still got it and they gettin better wit' time (cube is 50/50 tho - production wise).  wen it comes 2 tha west, they put theyself in a small box- MOST of their flows is really off, they aint really gettin all that good of beats and its always that signature west sound, thats kool 2 have but 'NO' they should re-invent tha sound wit' a new edge, every other coast has but the west.

But back 2 tha Chronic/Doggystyle burden that Snoop and Dre carry... The Chronic only has 10 or 11 tracks and DoggyStyle had like 9 or 10 songs, so u mean 2 tell me if Snoop cut tha number of tracks he releases in half that he wouldnt STILL be droppin' wat u label a classic?

00 - A Word Witcha'
01 - Press Play
02 - SD Is Out
03 - Neva Have 2 Worry
04 - Sexual Seduction
05 - Deez Hollywood Nitez
06 - Whateva U Do
07 - Been Around The World
08 - Thoze Girls
09 - One Chance

put some interludes (WBALLZ) in it and release that, u mean 2 tell me u would say that wouldnt b a classic or damn good album, even though it already is???? ur lyin 2 urself.  u would play that album from front 2 back, i know u would and its not even bcuz those r my favorites, its bcuz that shit is QUALITY music.  u could probably add some more songs on that too.


All im just sayin is stop expecting Snoop and them 2 just come out wit' somethin' that u aint neva heard b4, bcuz if they did u probably wouldnt like it.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: UCC on March 08, 2008, 04:59:05 PM
dogg all tha albums u mentioned were from tha 92/94 era, even Snoop said himself he cant recreate that shit.  exactly wat r u expectin', not just from Snoop but every artist in EVERY genre.  ur settin' tha bar so high that it cant b touched, not even by jesus himself.  the chronic ONLY took FOUR MONTHS, and Doggystyle took less than a year.  half tha shit they were rappin about didnt even match tha rhyme scheme that tha song was about. 

It's not about recreating it, it's about getting to that standard - they reached it once they can reach it again. What you're basically saying is that people should just expect wack shit from now on, because we can't possibly have more classics, which is bullshit IMO


wats wrong wit' recreatin urself every time u come out, just like obama change has gotta come.  since this has bcome anotha Ego Trippin thread i mite as well say all u want 2 hear is Nate, Dre, DPG, Rage, WG on his albums only, bcuz keep it real thats wat u want, just like most ppl. 

He could put whoever he likes on, as long as it's dope. For me it's not about west coast or getting the old crew together, it's about putting together a really good album


but 2 me ive grown up wit' Snoop since Doggystyle and im lovin' this new direction, i couldnt imagine him tryna release anotha Doggystyle- that whole concept would b outdated.  ALL Dr. Dre beats and only DPG features, if u ask me Dr. Dre aint tha greatest producer anymore, Nate cant harmonize like he used 2, rage's voice is kinda off, and Daz n' Kurupt are fuckin' wack- even though Kurupt MURDERED that freestyle in tha new Snoop video.

Doesn't have to be Dre and all those people, he could go to anyone for beats, just make sure they're not some half-assed shit. The concept of Doggystyle will never be outdated, because the basic concept was - make every beat a banger and drop nothing but hot verses


Snoop is bigger than Doggstyle now. 

That's part of the problem, Snoop is bigger outside of music now - his tv stuff, movie stuff, being a house hold name - but MUSICALLY he has never gotten as big as Doggystyle - that album sold three times what any of his others have, and it's easily his most critically acclaimed album, it's up there with all the greatest hiphop albums, unlike his other albums



But back 2 tha Chronic/Doggystyle burden that Snoop and Dre carry... The Chronic only has 10 or 11 tracks and DoggyStyle had like 9 or 10 songs, so u mean 2 tell me if Snoop cut tha number of tracks he releases in half that he wouldnt STILL be droppin' wat u label a classic?

00 - A Word Witcha'
01 - Press Play
02 - SD Is Out
03 - Neva Have 2 Worry
04 - Sexual Seduction
05 - Deez Hollywood Nitez
06 - Whateva U Do
07 - Been Around The World
08 - Thoze Girls
09 - One Chance

put some interludes (WBALLZ) in it and release that, u mean 2 tell me u would say that wouldnt b a classic or damn good album, even though it already is???? ur lyin 2 urself.  u would play that album from front 2 back, i know u would and its not even bcuz those r my favorites, its bcuz that shit is QUALITY music.  u could probably add some more songs on that too.

You have to be kidding me, that album would be a joke compared to Doggystyle! It definitely wouldn't be a classic, it's a couple of pop singles, mediocre beats and some so-so verses


Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 05:07:51 PM
it's not just West Coast, it's people

trust me, it's not like West Coast fans are the only ones who get weird about music

I understand that but I am talking about the west coast right now. I even said artists in general but it's more prevalent with wc artists. I also mentioned this happened to Nas before.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: WestCoasta on March 08, 2008, 05:11:51 PM
it's not just West Coast, it's people

trust me, it's not like West Coast fans are the only ones who get weird about music

I understand that but I am talking about the west coast right now. I even said artists in general but it's more prevalent with wc artists.

I see, from that perspective I would agree with you in some instances
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 05:23:35 PM
To say Snoop would need 2 drop a "Hip Hop" album of East coast beats (bcuz thats wat YOU love) is fuckin' wack.  The dubcc fans just wana hear Snoop ova 808 drums and Gangsta/Jazzy melodies.  But some of ya'll do put it in a good perspective though, maybe Snoop should drop a double album, 1 for tha older generation of Snoop fans and 1 for the newer.  U cant say Snoop is loosin' fans bcuz u still play DoggyStyle like it came out this mornin', thats like sayin' 2Pac is better NOW than then he waz back then.......????..... riiiite.   just bcuz u dont like it doesnt mean u have 2 brew hate and jealousy ova anotha man's work.  When I hear a classic album from some1 on tha internet forums, then i'll start 2 second guess people's OPINIONS.  Snoop is the Rap Version of Madonna, he can do shit like Rn'G and then turn around n drop a "Deep Cover 2010", Snoop is tha shit- stop denyin' urselfs.  I'm not a dickryder but 2 say that niggas fallin' off or loosin' his fans and his ways is fuckin' histerical.  just like my man David Banner said, ALL u folx wana hear is the "struggle", "money", "cars", "sex", "crime", "drugs", "love" songs, once an artists steps out that box nobody would wana hear it, honestly could u imagine a song if Snoop was rappin' about bein' a bird- maybe he could be a bird of coke and tell a story but otha than that that shit would be wack.  dont b so judgemental on somethin that doesnt envolve u

That's some real talk there too. Keep it coming fellas and any ladies out there.  ;D
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: G.O.D. Pt. III on March 08, 2008, 05:25:49 PM
Most west coast music just sucks now to be honest. Bishop Lamont's been killin it with those street tapes especially Caltroit. Bay area is a diff story.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 08, 2008, 05:29:13 PM
Most west coast music just sucks now to be honest. Bishop Lamont's been killin it with those street tapes especially Caltroit. Bay area is a diff story.

Bishop Lamont is another example. Will people allow him to have some creative say in his music or are they expecting some khaki/low ridin/gangsta shit. He is obviously not your "average" west coast artist so I hope people don't write him off and give the music a chance.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 08, 2008, 06:16:41 PM
Snoop is a commercial artist, not an underground artist anymore - (rap music in general is now that way, we are the biggest in demand) being tha celebrity he is, he has to, if he didnt he would be another 50 Cent ass nigga.  No TV shows/no acting jobs (rarely), he would still be Snoop DOGGY Dogg and not Snoop Dogg, wens tha last time u heard some1 call him Snoop Doggy Dogg.  When his name changed thats wen his persona changed. Same as every other artist.  U have 2 appeal 2 ur core fans as well as ur fly by niters on 1 album.  He would be a dumb ass business man if he didnt.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 08, 2008, 06:30:10 PM
Shit If thats tha case im still waitin on Muddy Waters II, with all tha scraped/unreleased beats updated and mixed by Dr. Dre and Erick Sermon with ALL Live Instruments.  And Bishop Lamont mite as well git leftover DeathRow, Chronic 2001 beats along with a couple renditions of songs off Regulate on there 2 and have Focus and DJ Quik replay and update all the music, have Dr. Dre mix the whole album with them.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: UCC on March 09, 2008, 05:25:50 AM
Snoop is a commercial artist, not an underground artist anymore - (rap music in general is now that way, we are the biggest in demand) being tha celebrity he is, he has to, if he didnt he would be another 50 Cent ass nigga.  No TV shows/no acting jobs (rarely), he would still be Snoop DOGGY Dogg and not Snoop Dogg, wens tha last time u heard some1 call him Snoop Doggy Dogg.  When his name changed thats wen his persona changed. Same as every other artist.  U have 2 appeal 2 ur core fans as well as ur fly by niters on 1 album.  He would be a dumb ass business man if he didnt.

LOL, when was Snoop ever an underground artist? You mean back when he released Doggystyle and sold 6 million and had Gin and Juice playing on MTV all day for a year?
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 09, 2008, 01:33:00 PM
Snoop is a commercial artist, not an underground artist anymore - (rap music in general is now that way, we are the biggest in demand) being tha celebrity he is, he has to, if he didnt he would be another 50 Cent ass nigga.  No TV shows/no acting jobs (rarely), he would still be Snoop DOGGY Dogg and not Snoop Dogg, wens tha last time u heard some1 call him Snoop Doggy Dogg.  When his name changed thats wen his persona changed. Same as every other artist.  U have 2 appeal 2 ur core fans as well as ur fly by niters on 1 album.  He would be a dumb ass business man if he didnt.

LOL, when was Snoop ever an underground artist? You mean back when he released Doggystyle and sold 6 million and had Gin and Juice playing on MTV all day for a year?


lol tru tru... but u cant deny if it wasnt 4 Dre, Snoop would've been on tha same plat-toe as Above The Law or the equivalent of wat tha Dogg Pound is today- alot of ppl heard of tha Dogg Pound but its not like "they r wat u say r superstars".  but UCC if u pay attention 2 wat u waz writin' u'll see exactly wat this post meant.  u may think its a bad thing 2 do songs like Sexual Eruption, but in all reality Snoop is still young its not like u see 50 year old rappers (even though ALOT r gettin' closer 2 that age) still rappin' about tha same shit (wit' a couple of exceptions)- rap hasnt been in tha masses that long.  snoop is a mega star, if he doesnt experiment now then by tha time he's on a Quincy Jones status he'll only have been in a 1 demintional level of music, and from wat it seems from wat i c, it looks like he's aimin' higher than that, just like alot of rappers r doin' nowadays, u cant play "In Da Club" at a funeral or play "Shoot Em In Tha Head" by Styles P while u tryna get some pussy.  Just like my man Crooked I say it's o-8' tha games in a checkmate, u gotta change up or u'll drift away.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Birdie on March 09, 2008, 03:02:17 PM
Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to , but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough

I agree with dat. Madlib is damn underated although he's a musical genius. Genius! One of the best producers ever and nobody writes about him.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: therealtran on March 09, 2008, 03:14:24 PM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

I agree 1000%. The west coast gangsta image is way played out, people want new, CREATIVE material and Snoop is aware of that. TBCT was cool, but it was hard for me to take Vato seriously, considering snoop is 36/37 years old and he's talking about gangbanging. That image is way past his prime so Ego Trippin' was awesome when I heard the album, it was so fresh and dynamic!

At one point, Dr. Dre had intended for Detox to be a concept album. In an interview with MTV in 2002, Dr. Dre stated,

    I'm not talking about lowriders and blunts and all that anymore… I mean, that's played. As a matter of fact, I'm tired of hearing other people talk about it, to tell you the truth… I had to come up with something different but still keep it hardcore, so what I decided to do was make my album one story about one person and just do the record through a character's eyes, and everybody that appears on my album is going to be a character, so it's basically going to be a hip-hop musical.[14]
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: dopeascanbe on March 09, 2008, 03:46:24 PM
It is hard to be creative because in my opinion everything is played out.  hip hop is either some ugly ass dance, drugs, sex, gangbangin, money and power, love, etc.  all which are repeated over and fuckin over in hiphop songs from veteran and new artists. So just enjoy the music that you fuck wit. :)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: MarshColin on March 09, 2008, 03:58:20 PM
So true. +1
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: UCC on March 09, 2008, 04:48:14 PM
The west coast gangsta image is way played out, people want new, CREATIVE material and Snoop is aware of that. TBCT was cool, but it was hard for me to take Vato seriously, considering snoop is 36/37 years old and he's talking about gangbanging. That image is way past his prime so Ego Trippin' was awesome when I heard the album, it was so fresh and dynamic!

I loved Vato, but not because it was some gangbanging shit, but because the beat was fire, Snoop's flow was on point, and he did that cool ass ragga flow thing at the end that he did on Day The Niggaz Took Over

On the other hand I hate Sensual Seduction, not because it's a new sound, but because it's a crappy sound - the beat is kinda wack, Snoop's singing is a bit mediocre, the verse in there is pretty forgettable

I'm all for Snoop doing something different and fresh and exciting, as long as it's done on a high level. He could have made some 70s-80s style singing track and done it amazingly, I like the Cool cover on the album, that's way better done, but Sensual Seduction to me was an interesting idea that wasn't very well executed
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 09, 2008, 06:01:09 PM
The west coast gangsta image is way played out, people want new, CREATIVE material and Snoop is aware of that. TBCT was cool, but it was hard for me to take Vato seriously, considering snoop is 36/37 years old and he's talking about gangbanging. That image is way past his prime so Ego Trippin' was awesome when I heard the album, it was so fresh and dynamic!

I loved Vato, but not because it was some gangbanging shit, but because the beat was fire, Snoop's flow was on point, and he did that cool ass ragga flow thing at the end that he did on Day The Niggaz Took Over

On the other hand I hate Sensual Seduction, not because it's a new sound, but because it's a crappy sound - the beat is kinda wack, Snoop's singing is a bit mediocre, the verse in there is pretty forgettable

I'm all for Snoop doing something different and fresh and exciting, as long as it's done on a high level. He could have made some 70s-80s style singing track and done it amazingly, I like the Cool cover on the album, that's way better done, but Sensual Seduction to me was an interesting idea that wasn't very well executed


.......im gonna take mi tiiiieiiime-she gohn get herz b4 iy....



no disrespect but ya'll must aint got no playa in ya'll then lol
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 09, 2008, 07:59:51 PM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

I agree 1000%. The west coast gangsta image is way played out, people want new, CREATIVE material and Snoop is aware of that. TBCT was cool, but it was hard for me to take Vato seriously, considering snoop is 36/37 years old and he's talking about gangbanging. That image is way past his prime so Ego Trippin' was awesome when I heard the album, it was so fresh and dynamic!

At one point, Dr. Dre had intended for Detox to be a concept album. In an interview with MTV in 2002, Dr. Dre stated,

    I'm not talking about lowriders and blunts and all that anymore… I mean, that's played. As a matter of fact, I'm tired of hearing other people talk about it, to tell you the truth… I had to come up with something different but still keep it hardcore, so what I decided to do was make my album one story about one person and just do the record through a character's eyes, and everybody that appears on my album is going to be a character, so it's basically going to be a hip-hop musical.[14]


Nice post homie, +1. Good dialogue here, lets keep it going.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Snoopafly-1986 on March 09, 2008, 08:11:47 PM
Snoop should do more albums like tha Doggfather

that had some gangsta shit but also had songs like Doggyland, Me and My Doggs, Vapors alotta storytelling to balance it out a little bit this was the perfect album and I like it better than Doggystyle

I think Doggystyle sounded like the Chronic with more Snoop its dope but just my opinion I like Doggfather
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: R1ZE on March 10, 2008, 01:03:20 PM
imo doggfather was garbage... i dont know what people on this forum see in that album. im guessing its nostalgia, but I don't know. his raps were weak, and so were half of the beats.

I was open to the idea of ego trippin. I like the idea of the songs, but most of them just don't sound good.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: jbel1021 on March 10, 2008, 01:09:12 PM
Snoop should do more albums like tha Doggfather

that had some gangsta shit but also had songs like Doggyland, Me and My Doggs, Vapors alotta storytelling to balance it out a little bit this was the perfect album and I like it better than Doggystyle

I think Doggystyle sounded like the Chronic with more Snoop its dope but just my opinion I like Doggfather

Yea, I haven't listened to Doggystyle in a while, compared to listening to Doggfather once on a while.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: AnybodyKilla on March 10, 2008, 01:13:33 PM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

Real talk man, +1. I myself like to hear new shit, Snoops album was crazy to me, the whole gangsta shit was gettin to damn played, and he brought it with this album, i love that musical shit, Snoop did it right. But a bunch of people dont like it cause there young n dumb imo, there stuck with that gangsta music mentality, they think the song has to be hard or its garbage, that aint the case, its music, let the artists fuck around a bit and see what type of crack they come up with, people need to have a open mind!!!
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Ese Torsido on March 10, 2008, 02:24:41 PM
Seems the music industry has changed waves ever since the Nappy comment Imus mentioned last year. The term was very derogative and got officials discussing the whole matter of explicit material and where it's coming from. Politicians blamed it on rap, and a backlash against all our favorite artists was unleashed. Nas declared hip hop was dead from that point, and now, the radio has become infested with rap-influenced pop music. "Chicken Noodle Soup" for the soul indeed. Rather, for the grave.

Regarding west coast: after Pac died, the relevence of gangsta rap decreased, moreso after B.I.G. got shot. The subgenre had gone down the drain because of the people who were affected by it: Dre denounced his gangsta ways, Snoop Dogg was at a crossroads between Death Row and No Limit (the money hungry industry at that time), and the music west coast offered became more universal than street. Pharcyde, Xzibit, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples: some of the well known west coast underground rappers at that time.

But one rapper who really changed the shape of music, period: Will Smith. The man whom you only thought of as an actor released Big Willie Style after the end of the east coast-west coast era. His old school swagger was gone for the most part (except on "Yes, Yes, Y'All" with Camp Lo), but he brought an entertainment value that eased the gangsta age and hinted on a new form of positive rap. In fact, on a PBS interview (don't remember which one and at what year), Nate Dogg was really insistant on working with him. Turned out that Snoop Dogg got his lucky shot on "Pump Ya Brakes," an easily slept on record. Listen to it.

I don't know if I can answer D-Nice's question directly, but what I do know is that the situation is a parallel of the Chicano Curse article I wrote last year, explaining why Chicano Rap will never achieve success in the music industry unless that Chicano rapper changes his ways by selling out. Baby Bash did it and got a lot of success; Lil' Rob did it, but became a one-hit wonder. That's because Bash moved to Texas while Rob stayed in Cali to represent the brown. The same could be said for Snoop: west coast fans think of gangsta rap as the higher music form in California. Hard beats, G-funk samples, rugged shots and gangbangin'. But the problem with that is, everyone's doing it. Every producer here in the U.S. has emulated the style to a very high that it is now impossible to duplicate. It's spread so far out that the U.S. has become the west. Ironic: that was what west coast wanted back in the 90's - Cali to overrun the U.S. Now look what happened. East coast artists have the west coast sound, while the west coast artist have the east coast lyrics (About a margin of rappers have that - and they're the hungry ones from the underground scene). Dirty south is a wild card - they work with whoever the fuck they want (and I'm proud of that).

Goes down to this: because the south is a wild card, they have pretty much decided the fate for how west coast should be represented.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: BOX5 the best poster on this site yell on March 10, 2008, 04:35:13 PM
Because West Coast fans are 13 to 19 years old.. they were too young to dig the G-Funk Era, so its new to them, so they are wondering why the artists cant drop shit like that anymore, because they didnt not have the chance to grow with the artist and get with his evolution. and In my opinion... the West Is just a coast on a map, thats it, to me music is music, as long as its dope in my ears, and shiit West Coast Music aint about Gangsta Rap only... Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to , but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough
nothing but the networth about murs and madlib yell
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 10, 2008, 07:00:12 PM
Seems the music industry has changed waves ever since the Nappy comment Imus mentioned last year. The term was very derogative and got officials discussing the whole matter of explicit material and where it's coming from. Politicians blamed it on rap, and a backlash against all our favorite artists was unleashed. Nas declared hip hop was dead from that point, and now, the radio has become infested with rap-influenced pop music. "Chicken Noodle Soup" for the soul indeed. Rather, for the grave.

Regarding west coast: after Pac died, the relevence of gangsta rap decreased, moreso after B.I.G. got shot. The subgenre had gone down the drain because of the people who were affected by it: Dre denounced his gangsta ways, Snoop Dogg was at a crossroads between Death Row and No Limit (the money hungry industry at that time), and the music west coast offered became more universal than street. Pharcyde, Xzibit, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples: some of the well known west coast underground rappers at that time.

But one rapper who really changed the shape of music, period: Will Smith. The man whom you only thought of as an actor released Big Willie Style after the end of the east coast-west coast era. His old school swagger was gone for the most part (except on "Yes, Yes, Y'All" with Camp Lo), but he brought an entertainment value that eased the gangsta age and hinted on a new form of positive rap. In fact, on a PBS interview (don't remember which one and at what year), Nate Dogg was really insistant on working with him. Turned out that Snoop Dogg got his lucky shot on "Pump Ya Brakes," an easily slept on record. Listen to it.

I don't know if I can answer D-Nice's question directly, but what I do know is that the situation is a parallel of the Chicano Curse article I wrote last year, explaining why Chicano Rap will never achieve success in the music industry unless that Chicano rapper changes his ways by selling out. Baby Bash did it and got a lot of success; Lil' Rob did it, but became a one-hit wonder. That's because Bash moved to Texas while Rob stayed in Cali to represent the brown. The same could be said for Snoop: west coast fans think of gangsta rap as the higher music form in California. Hard beats, G-funk samples, rugged shots and gangbangin'. But the problem with that is, everyone's doing it. Every producer here in the U.S. has emulated the style to a very high that it is now impossible to duplicate. It's spread so far out that the U.S. has become the west. Ironic: that was what west coast wanted back in the 90's - Cali to overrun the U.S. Now look what happened. East coast artists have the west coast sound, while the west coast artist have the east coast lyrics (About a margin of rappers have that - and they're the hungry ones from the underground scene). Dirty south is a wild card - they work with whoever the fuck they want (and I'm proud of that).

Goes down to this: because the south is a wild card, they have pretty much decided the fate for how west coast should be represented.

Nice post. +1 homie.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: UCC on March 11, 2008, 06:47:09 AM
I was open to the idea of ego trippin. I like the idea of the songs, but most of them just don't sound good.

Co-sign right here


But a bunch of people dont like it cause there young n dumb imo, there stuck with that gangsta music mentality, they think the song has to be hard or its garbage, that aint the case, its music, let the artists fuck around a bit and see what type of crack they come up with, people need to have a open mind!!!

It doesn't have to be hard, it just has to be good. Can't people just accept that other people think the beats and raps are wack on this album? You can't keep hiding behind the excuse that it's so fresh that some people just aren't getting it. As I co-signed above - I was very open to the idea, it just so happened that it came out kinda wack PLUS he only flipped the script on like 3-4 tracks, the rest is his usually stuff, but easy listening style forgettable beats and verses
IMO this would mainly appeal to 'young n dumb' listeners who a) haven't heard that many dope beats, b) don't know what a dope verse sounds like, and c) want to sing 'i waaannnnaaa taaake myyyyy tiiiimeee' etc in the playground


Seems the music industry has changed waves ever since the Nappy comment Imus mentioned last year. The term was very derogative and got officials discussing the whole matter of explicit material and where it's coming from. Politicians blamed it on rap, and a backlash against all our favorite artists was unleashed. Nas declared hip hop was dead from that point, and now, the radio has become infested with rap-influenced pop music. "Chicken Noodle Soup" for the soul indeed. Rather, for the grave.

Regarding west coast: after Pac died, the relevence of gangsta rap decreased, moreso after B.I.G. got shot. The subgenre had gone down the drain because of the people who were affected by it: Dre denounced his gangsta ways, Snoop Dogg was at a crossroads between Death Row and No Limit (the money hungry industry at that time), and the music west coast offered became more universal than street. Pharcyde, Xzibit, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples: some of the well known west coast underground rappers at that time.

But one rapper who really changed the shape of music, period: Will Smith. The man whom you only thought of as an actor released Big Willie Style after the end of the east coast-west coast era. His old school swagger was gone for the most part (except on "Yes, Yes, Y'All" with Camp Lo), but he brought an entertainment value that eased the gangsta age and hinted on a new form of positive rap. In fact, on a PBS interview (don't remember which one and at what year), Nate Dogg was really insistant on working with him. Turned out that Snoop Dogg got his lucky shot on "Pump Ya Brakes," an easily slept on record. Listen to it.

I don't know if I can answer D-Nice's question directly, but what I do know is that the situation is a parallel of the Chicano Curse article I wrote last year, explaining why Chicano Rap will never achieve success in the music industry unless that Chicano rapper changes his ways by selling out. Baby Bash did it and got a lot of success; Lil' Rob did it, but became a one-hit wonder. That's because Bash moved to Texas while Rob stayed in Cali to represent the brown. The same could be said for Snoop: west coast fans think of gangsta rap as the higher music form in California. Hard beats, G-funk samples, rugged shots and gangbangin'. But the problem with that is, everyone's doing it. Every producer here in the U.S. has emulated the style to a very high that it is now impossible to duplicate. It's spread so far out that the U.S. has become the west. Ironic: that was what west coast wanted back in the 90's - Cali to overrun the U.S. Now look what happened. East coast artists have the west coast sound, while the west coast artist have the east coast lyrics (About a margin of rappers have that - and they're the hungry ones from the underground scene). Dirty south is a wild card - they work with whoever the fuck they want (and I'm proud of that).

Goes down to this: because the south is a wild card, they have pretty much decided the fate for how west coast should be represented.

Nice history lesson, but sum it up, what's your point. I don't see how Imus relates to pop-rap, it's been around a long time before that, that incident just made a few folks mad at rap for a couple of minutes, no one went, "oh Imus made a racist comment, well, better go make me some pop rap". Will Smith didn't make a huge dent either, we'd already had Puffy and Mase making pop bullshit for a while then, Will just added on to it

Southern rap has been popular recently because they figured out the formula that makes millions of kids buy your records, rather than just hiphop heads - you come up with a beat that you can dance to, you have a little keyboard melody that sticks in motherfuckers heads, you add a catchy as hell hook, then you just bullshit your way through your verses and say anything, as long as you're doing it with 'swagger'. Then you have your flossy video with you in crazy sunglasses, some jeans hung low, mad cars and bitches, and cameos from all the people who had a hit single last week



Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Ese Torsido on March 11, 2008, 08:57:34 AM
Quote from: UCC
Nice history lesson, but sum it up, what's your point.

Only to bring up interesting thoughts to the table, as Chad Vader and D-Nice said. I couldn't come up with a straight answer because there's a lot of additional factors I left out. I won't go into that much detali, but I can purely say:

If it's anybody other than a west coast artist, they'll make it to the top.
If it's a west coast artist, they can only do west coast music, but they can't duplicate any one else.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: SGV on March 11, 2008, 09:26:51 AM
Ive said it once, I'll say it a million times. West Coast Fans just can't let go. That's why whenever there's another person doing hooks you see comments like "Nate should've done that hook!" or "Why not use Butch Cassidy?" Or you, when artists get producers outside of the West, "Why did they get some East Coast shit? That's wack! They should've got some G-Funk shit." Uh... It's 2008. G-Funk hasn't been shit in over 10 years. Why would anyone want that shit back? It's just cats can't get over it. They fell deeply in love with it and they're just not done with it.

Snoop can't try new things because his fans HATE that. They hate that Snoop is not exclusive to them anymore. God forbid if DJ Quik tried something new, people are having a heart attack. No artists from the West Coast really get the OK from their fans to go out and try new shit. Hell, even some artists from the West Coast don't get love from West Coast fans because they (the artists) aren't Gangsta, Street or G-Funk enough for them. But these fans still sit here and claim to be as West Coast as anyone. Which is also why I say they're hypocritical. They have the nerve to diss Southern dudes for their lyrical content, but big up Suga Free or Mac Shawn in the next sentence.

West Coast fans just aren't open. The Game is about as West Coast as they come, but his appeal extends well passed the West. There's a reason why he wasn't broke on the West Coast first. He had to get broken in New York and on THEIR Mixtape scene because the West Coast doesn't work that way. West Coast fans complain left and right about Mixtapes. They either getting them free or for real cheap and they're making all sorts of ridiculous excuses why they don't like them. If West Coast fans were more supportive of Mixtapes, believe that the Radio would be more supportive. But since the West Coast fans are a bunch of hoes, they don't support anything enough for it to blow up. Even when their "Gods" Snoop, Daz or Kurupt drop something, they find a reason to hate on their record. "Oh they had [insert non-West artist(s) here] on the record. They should've had RBX, Lady of Rage, Lil Half Dead, Butch Cassidy, Goldie Loc, Nate Dogg, Soopafly, or Mr. Malik on the record!!!!"

We're gonna have to wait for a new batch of West Coast fans. We're still surrounded by people who were introduced to the West Coast either during the G-Funk or 2001 era's of West Coast Hip Hop which were dominated by the same people they're in love with today. West Coast fans who were introduced to the West by Game, Omar Cruz, Bishop Lamont etc. will be a new day. Just gotta be patient and see what those fans do with the West Coast. These current fans, coupled with old ass rappers ain't doing shit with it.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: i love men who take pictures with their booty's out on March 11, 2008, 09:52:11 AM
niggas in the streets with limited internet access could give a shitless about the growth of an artist that they grew up on..

if they see a snoop, quik, eiht, cube, kam, e-40 or etc cd at their local mom & pop or favorite outlet..or hell if their favorite bootlegger has it..u think them niggas or bitches..gone sit there n debate with the people about the musicianship of the last album..or if its gangsta or not.. hell nall they got other shit they can be worried about

the gone spend that 2,4,5,7,9.99 or 12.99 without a care in the world.....

niggas need to quit cryin about shit they could go out n do themselves..if ya favorite mc aint doin it nomore.. get up off ya ass ..make the music u like..





Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Ese Torsido on March 11, 2008, 11:00:13 AM
niggas need to quit cryin about shit they could go out n do themselves..if ya favorite mc aint doin it nomore.. get up off ya ass ..make the music u like..

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Hope Yung Xyal reads this.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on March 11, 2008, 11:08:43 AM
Ive said it once, I'll say it a million times. West Coast Fans just can't let go. That's why whenever there's another person doing hooks you see comments like "Nate should've done that hook!" or "Why not use Butch Cassidy?" Or you, when artists get producers outside of the West, "Why did they get some East Coast shit? That's wack! They should've got some G-Funk shit." Uh... It's 2008. G-Funk hasn't been shit in over 10 years. Why would anyone want that shit back? It's just cats can't get over it. They fell deeply in love with it and they're just not done with it.

Snoop can't try new things because his fans HATE that. They hate that Snoop is not exclusive to them anymore. God forbid if DJ Quik tried something new, people are having a heart attack. No artists from the West Coast really get the OK from their fans to go out and try new shit. Hell, even some artists from the West Coast don't get love from West Coast fans because they (the artists) aren't Gangsta, Street or G-Funk enough for them. But these fans still sit here and claim to be as West Coast as anyone. Which is also why I say they're hypocritical. They have the nerve to diss Southern dudes for their lyrical content, but big up Suga Free or Mac Shawn in the next sentence.

West Coast fans just aren't open. The Game is about as West Coast as they come, but his appeal extends well passed the West. There's a reason why he wasn't broke on the West Coast first. He had to get broken in New York and on THEIR Mixtape scene because the West Coast doesn't work that way. West Coast fans complain left and right about Mixtapes. They either getting them free or for real cheap and they're making all sorts of ridiculous excuses why they don't like them. If West Coast fans were more supportive of Mixtapes, believe that the Radio would be more supportive. But since the West Coast fans are a bunch of hoes, they don't support anything enough for it to blow up. Even when their "Gods" Snoop, Daz or Kurupt drop something, they find a reason to hate on their record. "Oh they had [insert non-West artist(s) here] on the record. They should've had RBX, Lady of Rage, Lil Half Dead, Butch Cassidy, Goldie Loc, Nate Dogg, Soopafly, or Mr. Malik on the record!!!!"

We're gonna have to wait for a new batch of West Coast fans. We're still surrounded by people who were introduced to the West Coast either during the G-Funk or 2001 era's of West Coast Hip Hop which were dominated by the same people they're in love with today. West Coast fans who were introduced to the West by Game, Omar Cruz, Bishop Lamont etc. will be a new day. Just gotta be patient and see what those fans do with the West Coast. These current fans, coupled with old ass rappers ain't doing shit with it.

Exactly what I think!!!!!
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Westcoastfanatic on March 11, 2008, 11:12:58 AM
Musical Growth is great. I only buy albums from rappers or producers who try to do something that's innovative and original. But at the same time I want them to keep it real hip hop. Some producers like Timbaland and Pharell do sum original stuff, but their sound's too poppy for me. Best example of a producer who changes his sound every few years but still keeps it real/hardcore hip hop is of course the one and only D.R.E.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Ese Torsido on March 11, 2008, 11:22:47 AM
Okay, let see how you guys handle this. I have a song by J-Pop singer Namie Amuro called "Cross Over." Years ago, she did a song with west coast rapper Kenny Kingpen (back then, he was known as Poppa LQ of The Regime). His rap appears at the very end of the song.

Here's my question: do you west coast fans approve of your rappers taking risky ventures such as this?

Namie Amuro feat. Kenny Kingpen / Poppa LQ - "Cross Over"
30-Second Snippet: http://www.zshare.net/audio/8786701abd566d/
Complete Rap Verse: http://www.zshare.net/audio/87865727c519d7/
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Chad Vader on March 11, 2008, 11:50:40 AM
Because West Coast fans are 13 to 19 years old..

ok  :P :-X I guess I must be the only gangster rap fan over 30 then  :P :-\ :-X :laugh:

they were too young to dig the G-Funk Era, so its new to them,
so they are wondering why the artists cant drop shit like that anymore,
because they didnt not have the chance to grow with the artist and get with his evolution.

ok  :P :-X  :-X :-X :-X

Look at Murs, Look at Madlib all those are from the west and
they actually make music that people can relate too and grow to,
but doesnt get support because it aint GANGSTA enough

ok  :P :-X  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X





Here are a couple points that are  ??? to me but I am not here to put people on blast.
Nas went from Nasty to Esco back to Escobar like the song say and he survived.
But with Snoop it seems like he loses more and more fans with every album.
And maybe Snoop is to blame partially for that but it's his career
at the end of the day and I dig alot of the new producers and concepts he has tried.

Nas went from Hip Hop to "Gangster rap",he still kept it "real".
But Snoop has gone the pop route and you know that pop is frowned upon amongst "so called" music heads.

Even the gap in gangsta rap and so called backpack rap out here on the west.
Most don't even appreciate a Murs, Evidence, Blu & Exile, etc for making just GOOD MUSIC.
It gets ignored because it don't sound like somebody else's shit.

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.









But a bunch of people dont like it cause there young n dumb imo,
theyīre stuck with that gangsta music mentality,
they think the song has to be hard or its garbage,that aint the case,its music,
let the artists fuck around a bit and see what type of crack they come up with, people need to have a open mind!!!

 :P :P :-X :-X :-\ :-\

It doesn't have to be hard,it just has to be good.
Can't people just accept that other people think the beats and raps are wack on this album?
You can't keep hiding behind the excuse that it's so fresh that some people just aren't getting it.

Word  ;) ^^^^


Only to bring up interesting thoughts to the table, as Chad Vader and D-Nice said.
I couldn't come up with a straight answer because there's a lot of additional factors I left out.

I appriciate it, ;) trying to take the convo to new levels all the time.







Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: wcsoldier on March 11, 2008, 12:05:56 PM
(Most) of the rap fans are the most narrow minded people when it comes to music ... they are way to much into that" keep it real, gangsta, street crediblity" BS ...  lots of mainstream rap fans don't even like the music itself .. it's just to give themselves a tough image
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 11, 2008, 12:31:34 PM
I don't know Chad. Nas recieved alot of backlash for that mafioso shit he was kicking on It Was Written. And we all know Nas ain't on that tip. I know comparison wise it is different but my point is that "phase" he went through it was talked about a little bit but not to the point Snoop has been criticized.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 11, 2008, 12:46:05 PM
And by no means am I letting Snoop off the hook and putting it on the fans. Or any artists for that matter. Just trying to spark some convo. Get a idea of what peeps are and are not checking for when they listen to WC music.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Chad Vader on March 11, 2008, 01:12:54 PM
I don't know Chad. Nas recieved alot of backlash for that mafioso shit he was kicking on It Was Written.
And we all know Nas ain't on that tip.
I know comparison wise it is different but my point is that "phase" he went through
it was talked about a little bit but not to the point Snoop has been criticized.

But you clearly understood what I meant  ;)
Thatīs why I brought up; (in the previous thread)
Quote
What if Snoop did some Hip Hop shit,would cats think he "sucked New York dick"?

And by no means am I letting Snoop off the hook and putting it on the fans.
Or any artists for that matter. Just trying to spark some convo.
Get a idea of what peeps are and are not checking for when they listen to WC music.

Yep,thereīs other artists out there  ;)...
The world wont end just because a couple of artists starts to do other styles  :laugh: :P ;)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: SGV on March 11, 2008, 02:19:41 PM

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.


That's a cop out. BEP can never go back into the underground and big up those artists. Underground heads as a whole are just as douchey as West Coast Hip Hop fans. Let's say, as an example, Aceyalone put out an album and has a feature from BEP on there. Do you realize how many of his fans would be turned off? How outraged they'd be? To make such a comment as you did above makes me think that you're not putting too much thought into this. If we're talking "Joints and Jams" Black Eyed Peas, then you have a case. But you're talking "Where Is The Love" Black Eyed Peas. They're not the old Backpacking crew from East L.A./Pasadena area they once were. Since then they've went about 2 or 3 freeways over and picked up some white chick and became pop stars. Maybe Will.I.Am is able to go back and scoop up some talent, but more than likely an underground emcee will not hop on one of his beats. The other dudes aren't factors in the game in all reality. Black Eyed Peas are unable to go underground. The size of the line between Underground/Mainstream compared to Gangsta/Mainstream is HUGE. It's difficult to "turn your back" on the Underground and go Mainstream, then try to go back. Your fans probably won't be too happy. But look at dudes like MC Eiht who found some mainstream success, but was able to revert back to his "Gangsta Roots" and continue making music.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Chad Vader on March 11, 2008, 04:50:39 PM
I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.

That's a cop out. BEP can never go back into the underground and big up those artists.
Underground heads as a whole are just as douchey as West Coast Hip Hop fans.

Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

Let's say, as an example, Aceyalone put out an album and has a feature from BEP on there.
Do you realize how many of his fans would be turned off? How outraged they'd be?

 :laugh: :laugh:
Sure,but you know what people do for money and fame sometimes (?)  :laugh: :laugh:

To make such a comment as you did above makes me think that you're not putting too much thought into this.
If we're talking "Joints and Jams" Black Eyed Peas, then you have a case.
But you're talking "Where Is The Love" Black Eyed Peas.
They're not the old Backpacking crew from East L.A./Pasadena area they once were.
Since then they've went about 2 or 3 freeways over and picked up some white chick and became pop stars.
Maybe Will.I.Am is able to go back and scoop up some talent,
but more than likely an underground emcee will not hop on one of his beats.
The other dudes aren't factors in the game in all reality.
Black Eyed Peas are unable to go underground.

I was speaking hypothetical.  ;)
There is no secret that it takes some sacrifices to cross over to a bigger audience.
You got to see your beloved underground artist "sell out",this happens all the time.
You canīt hate them for trying to feed their family,shit happens...
nothing to be mad about  ;),thereīs always another "underground" artist to discover.

The size of the line between Underground/Mainstream compared to Gangsta/Mainstream is HUGE.

I donīt agree.... thereīs just as big range between a underground alternative rapper as a underground gangster rapper.
Not sure what brings you to that conclusion,
but I got to assume you donīt know the underground "gangster rap" scene to well. (correct me if Iīm wrong)  ;)
I check for both generes and seriously Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real and underground... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\

It's difficult to "turn your back" on the Underground and go Mainstream, then try to go back.
Your fans probably won't be too happy.

Well in the fans eyes "youīre" a traitor  :laugh:


But look at dudes like MC Eiht who found some mainstream success,
but was able to revert back to his "Gangsta Roots" and continue making music.

I donīt think his fans saw his 5 minutes of fame as "sell out".
The music was somewhat still the same.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: SGV on March 11, 2008, 05:25:09 PM

Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

Quote
How many Backpackers have you met? You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Underground heads think. I'm not judging on preference, I'm "judging" on lack of openess.

 :laugh: :laugh:
Sure,but you know what people do for money and fame sometimes (?)  :laugh: :laugh:

Quote
Yeah, people do a lot for money and fame. But that's not what I asked. Nor was it really relevant.

I was speaking hypothetical.  ;)
There is no secret that it takes some sacrifices to cross over to a bigger audience.
You got to see your beloved underground artist "sell out",this happens all the time.
You canīt hate them for trying to feed their family,shit happens...
nothing to be mad about  ;),thereīs always another "underground" artist to discover.

Quote
You're right, you can't hate them for trying to feed their family. But, what you fail to realize how Underground heads/Backpackers are.

I donīt agree.... thereīs just as big range between a underground alternative rapper as a underground gangster rapper.
Not sure what brings you to that conclusion,
but I got to assume you donīt know the underground "gangster rap" scene to well. (correct me if Iīm wrong)  ;)
I check for both generes and seriously Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real and underground... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\

Quote
LOL. Who do I need to know about in the "Underground Gangster Rap" scene? C-Lim? Young Droop? Hound Foundation? Any random Swap Meet Cholo rapper? Killa Tay? I can go on... But that's neither here nor there. The fact that "Gangster" Rap is not a taboo any longer to the masses (nor has it been for over 10 years) it's much easier for a "gangster" rapper to cross the mainstream line, than an Underground rapper. Look at artists like Game, Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, Styles P, etc. They're gangster rappers. They all rap street shit, but are on a mainstream scale. Now how many Backpackers are out there in the mainstream right now? Common. Kweli.

Well in the fans eyes "youīre" a traitor  :laugh:

Quote
Uh... Yeah. I know.

I donīt think his fans saw his 5 minutes of fame as "sell out".
The music was somewhat still the same.

Quote
That's exactly it. Which furthers my case that difference between Underground Gangster and Mainstream Rapper is MUCH closer than Backpack and Mainstream.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Tay on March 11, 2008, 06:11:36 PM

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem,Black eyed peas also do alternative rap... with great success.
If the successful acts like Black Eyed Peas,looked out for their underground peers like
Dre,Eazy,Snoop and Cube has done for their "gangster rap" peers,maybe they would had some more success?
Like you said they make quality music,but itīs just getting it out there.


That's a cop out. BEP can never go back into the underground and big up those artists. Underground heads as a whole are just as douchey as West Coast Hip Hop fans. Let's say, as an example, Aceyalone put out an album and has a feature from BEP on there. Do you realize how many of his fans would be turned off? How outraged they'd be? To make such a comment as you did above makes me think that you're not putting too much thought into this. If we're talking "Joints and Jams" Black Eyed Peas, then you have a case. But you're talking "Where Is The Love" Black Eyed Peas. They're not the old Backpacking crew from East L.A./Pasadena area they once were. Since then they've went about 2 or 3 freeways over and picked up some white chick and became pop stars. Maybe Will.I.Am is able to go back and scoop up some talent, but more than likely an underground emcee will not hop on one of his beats. The other dudes aren't factors in the game in all reality. Black Eyed Peas are unable to go underground. The size of the line between Underground/Mainstream compared to Gangsta/Mainstream is HUGE. It's difficult to "turn your back" on the Underground and go Mainstream, then try to go back. Your fans probably won't be too happy. But look at dudes like MC Eiht who found some mainstream success, but was able to revert back to his "Gangsta Roots" and continue making music.

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 11, 2008, 07:31:12 PM
Chad I definitely get what you are saying. SGV, Killa Tay, good points also. Yeah there is a EXTREME gap between the underground and mainstream out west. Probably is better that way for both but you always have some artists that are right on the cusp of becoming mainstream. Dilated is a good example. That track they did with Kanye ALMOST got them there, maybe if it was released last year and they would have been there. I guess my big thing is how much artistic say or direction would a group like Dilated sacrifice if it would have happened. And would the fans be open to it. A exact opposite of this would be the Alkaholiks. If Hip Hop Drunkies would have been allowed to be released properly, it probably would have made them household names. Did not happen. Best U Can drops with Pharrell and there again people bash it. Is it because it's Pharrell and they are trying something new or is it because the song is that bad?
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Ese Torsido on March 11, 2008, 07:38:25 PM
That's why I posted a sample song here for everyone to peep out. So far, no one has commented on it.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 11, 2008, 07:41:08 PM
That's why I posted a sample song here for everyone to peep out. So far, no one has commented on it.

My bad homie, I will check it out and comment on it.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 11, 2008, 07:49:55 PM
Okay, let see how you guys handle this. I have a song by J-Pop singer Namie Amuro called "Cross Over." Years ago, she did a song with west coast rapper Kenny Kingpen (back then, he was known as Poppa LQ of The Regime). His rap appears at the very end of the song.

Here's my question: do you west coast fans approve of your rappers taking risky ventures such as this?

Namie Amuro feat. Kenny Kingpen / Poppa LQ - "Cross Over"
30-Second Snippet: http://www.zshare.net/audio/8786701abd566d/
Complete Rap Verse: http://www.zshare.net/audio/87865727c519d7/


I checked it out. I was not too fond of the beat to be honest but I don't knock Kenny for doing the track. I don't mind any new ventures a artist will try. As long as it's not forced down the fans throat with it. Like Cypress for example. I like how they did Skull & Bones. Give your hip hop fans a disc worth of dope rap and experiment on the other disc with rock. Try a few things here and there but just don't go completely to a different genre.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 11, 2008, 07:58:25 PM
I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Amplified on March 12, 2008, 01:26:54 AM
I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)

Please bring him back!!!! Was playing Get In Where U Fit In Today thinking the same thing!!!
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Dre-Day on March 12, 2008, 01:51:01 AM
Quote
LOL. Who do I need to know about in the "Underground Gangster Rap" scene? C-Lim? Young Droop? Hound Foundation? Any random Swap Meet Cholo rapper? Killa Tay? I can go on... But that's neither here nor there. The fact that "Gangster" Rap is not a taboo any longer to the masses (nor has it been for over 10 years) it's much easier for a "gangster" rapper to cross the mainstream line, than an Underground rapper. Look at artists like Game, Rick Ross, Young Jeezy, Styles P, etc. They're gangster rappers. They all rap street shit, but are on a mainstream scale. Now how many Backpackers are out there in the mainstream right now? Common. Kweli.
i assume you don't like Gangster rap; just because you don't know many "underground" gangster rappers, doesn't mean they don't exist.

I think these artists get to much attention for being underground,while there is a lot of underground "gangster rappers" to.
Itīs generic bullshit music that is the problem
exactly. i mean in snoop's case, yeah he does something different than with BCT, but both albums are mainstream.
i believe snoop can make a Gangster rap album that's true to his roots but isn't another recreation of Doggystyle.

it's just disappointing to see that "the formula" is still working.
look at at all the topics about ego trippin' (by the way, i'm not knocking anybody for liking the album)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: SGV on March 12, 2008, 07:23:14 AM

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.

More than likely though, if you're into Keak, you'll probably be into the Hyphy Movement. That's not always the case, but that's usually what happens. I agree, labeling does cause problems but I got these labels, such as "Back Pack" and shit from the Backpackers in High School. They pretty much called themselves Backpackers. They were big time Project Blowed fans. Heavy into Living Legends. Hated anything remotely popular. Thought everything HAD to be lyrical to be dope. Didn't care if there was wack production, voices or hooks, as long as the lyrics were dope. It pretty much carried over everytime I met someone who was into mainly Underground shit. So the label just stuck for me. But, I see your point on labeling. But yes, Gangster rappers are def. just one hit away from that success they're looking for. I don't understand how anyone cannot comprehend that.

I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)

I think that Short doing his thing with the Hyphy Movement was a good look for him. Short's been in the game 20 years. He's gotta do something to keep himself relevant. What better than co-signing the youngsters in his city? He can't keep doing the same shit he did all those years ago and STILL be relevant.


i assume you don't like Gangster rap; just because you don't know many "underground" gangster rappers, doesn't mean they don't exist.


Uh... Really? Do you want me to sit here and really name all the "underground gangster rappers" I know? LOL. Maybe you misread or something, but I never said they don't exist.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Chad Vader on March 12, 2008, 11:39:23 AM
Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

How many Backpackers have you met?
You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Underground heads think.
I'm not judging on preference, I'm "judging" on lack of openess.

Let me change the words around a little bit for you;
"All Arabic people hate Americans and wants to kill them"  :-X
Why judge people for; where theyīre from,color,religion and sexual preferences?

How many Arabic people have you met?
You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Arabic people think.

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
...Warning;
No netbanging,name calling allowed in here,this is a serious thread.


Iīll just leave this thread with these words;
Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real,underground and hardcore... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 12, 2008, 12:34:45 PM

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.

More than likely though, if you're into Keak, you'll probably be into the Hyphy Movement. That's not always the case, but that's usually what happens. I agree, labeling does cause problems but I got these labels, such as "Back Pack" and shit from the Backpackers in High School. They pretty much called themselves Backpackers. They were big time Project Blowed fans. Heavy into Living Legends. Hated anything remotely popular. Thought everything HAD to be lyrical to be dope. Didn't care if there was wack production, voices or hooks, as long as the lyrics were dope. It pretty much carried over everytime I met someone who was into mainly Underground shit. So the label just stuck for me. But, I see your point on labeling. But yes, Gangster rappers are def. just one hit away from that success they're looking for. I don't understand how anyone cannot comprehend that.

I take some of that last statement back. There are SOME ventures I just can't get with that artists do. Too $hort rocking the whole Hyphy movement thing I can't do it. BRING BACK ANT BANKS!  ;D 8)

I think that Short doing his thing with the Hyphy Movement was a good look for him. Short's been in the game 20 years. He's gotta do something to keep himself relevant. What better than co-signing the youngsters in his city? He can't keep doing the same shit he did all those years ago and STILL be relevant.


i assume you don't like Gangster rap; just because you don't know many "underground" gangster rappers, doesn't mean they don't exist.


Uh... Really? Do you want me to sit here and really name all the "underground gangster rappers" I know? LOL. Maybe you misread or something, but I never said they don't exist.

Maybe I should re phrase that then. The hyphy sound does not fit $hort IMO. I definitely applaud him for supporting the movement.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Tay on March 12, 2008, 02:35:23 PM

This post and the other one you made at the top of this page might be too real for people to get, but damn they are on point. As far as the gaps, most of the mainstream radio is somewhat gangsta influenced, even if it's just some wack gangsta references over a pop beat and a girl hook. Part of the problem comes with the labeling of "underground", "backpacker", "gangsta". It almost turns into a thing where you have to support an entire movement, so if you like Keak Da Sneak, you're almost forced to buy into "hyphy", even if it's a horrible rapper like BavGate. If you like the Living Legends and Atmosphere, you have to get into the "underground", even if you don't really like Sage Francis. The differences between mainstream are this: An underground hip-hopper who does it for the love would be despised if he sold out for one or two singles to get that mainstream shine. An underground gangsta rapper is just one hit away from making his money and feeding his family.

More than likely though, if you're into Keak, you'll probably be into the Hyphy Movement. That's not always the case, but that's usually what happens. I agree, labeling does cause problems but I got these labels, such as "Back Pack" and shit from the Backpackers in High School. They pretty much called themselves Backpackers. They were big time Project Blowed fans. Heavy into Living Legends. Hated anything remotely popular. Thought everything HAD to be lyrical to be dope. Didn't care if there was wack production, voices or hooks, as long as the lyrics were dope. It pretty much carried over everytime I met someone who was into mainly Underground shit. So the label just stuck for me. But, I see your point on labeling. But yes, Gangster rappers are def. just one hit away from that success they're looking for. I don't understand how anyone cannot comprehend that.

This is true, and it is also a big reason for why the fans don't allow growth in their artists. Because they label themselves and their specific music, they are closed-minded about anybody who isn't in that category, and don't want their group of artists to do anything different. Also, they tack on to artists just because they are a part of the movement, even if a backpacker might appreciate the style of a "gangsta" rapper more. There's another thread about a new Del interview, where he was talking about how people were trying too hard to be lyrical, trying to sound intelligent, and that really made sense to me. It just fits in with the whole concept of people trying to fall in line with a certain movement. As for Dilated, they had the major label thing going with Neighborhood Watch, and 20/20, and this was after years of grinding. They had their single with Kanye, and it did well, but that rarely happens. Almost every couple of months, you have a new "gangsta" rapper break through with a big hit when barely anyone has heard of them.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 12, 2008, 04:28:34 PM
to some this thread up people just need 2 move on, even Parliment stopped makin' records and while we're at it, even James Brown did (RIP).  if i could put all tha complaints in 1 topic, dubcc could clear out alot of space 4 NEWER artist 2 get they shine on and expand 2 somethin else... new artist new plateu (here)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 12, 2008, 06:08:51 PM
to some this thread up people just need 2 move on, even Parliment stopped makin' records and while we're at it, even James Brown did (RIP).  if i could put all tha complaints in 1 topic, dubcc could clear out alot of space 4 NEWER artist 2 get they shine on and expand 2 somethin else... new artist new plateu (here)

Appreciate the post. But this can be directed to new artists as well. You don't think people give the "New West" a hard time too? It's a catch 22 for them too. If they music is too innovative and new, people will write it off. If they keep it hood they are living in the past with the OGs. Shit ain't fair, but I have not seen anything different to change my viewpoint. Dubcnn is one of the only wc and hip hop outlets that showcases ALL types of music from the west and I salute them for that.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 12, 2008, 06:18:41 PM
to some this thread up people just need 2 move on, even Parliment stopped makin' records and while we're at it, even James Brown did (RIP).  if i could put all tha complaints in 1 topic, dubcc could clear out alot of space 4 NEWER artist 2 get they shine on and expand 2 somethin else... new artist new plateu (here)

Appreciate the post. But this can be directed to new artists as well. You don't think people give the "New West" a hard time too? It's a catch 22 for them too. If they music is too innovative and new, people will write it off. If they keep it hood they are living in the past with the OGs. Shit ain't fair, but I have not seen anything different to change my viewpoint. Dubcnn is one of the only wc and hip hop outlets that showcases ALL types of music from the west and I salute them for that.

no i jus think ppl need 2 get up off they ass and live a lil' (whether they have friends or girlfriends or not).  its only a handful of ppl on here that think that way, u cant generalize it 4 everybody.  the "NEW" west is filled wit a buncha corny ass niggaz, even Bishop Lamont said dat shit, them niggaz is wack- weather they conchis or gangsta or w/e, them niggaz is wack.  u cant blame tha MASS MAJORITY of ppl EVERYWHERE 4 not likin' bullshit (theres nothing "innovative" about garbage bag muzik).  u cant go by sales anymore, i dont even kno why ppl still complain, its all about who got skiils, whether ppl realize that shit or not.  i mean c'mon do yall actually think Detox is gonna go platinum (Gold... MAYBE)?? Dr. Dre is gona have tha most downloaded album in history, i betcha life on that.  its tha same ol talk, tha same ol raps on these forums and in pop culture in general, i just havent realized why ppl havent moved on?
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Lunatic on March 12, 2008, 06:23:50 PM
^u really don't think detox will go platinum?
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 12, 2008, 06:26:04 PM
to some this thread up people just need 2 move on, even Parliment stopped makin' records and while we're at it, even James Brown did (RIP).  if i could put all tha complaints in 1 topic, dubcc could clear out alot of space 4 NEWER artist 2 get they shine on and expand 2 somethin else... new artist new plateu (here)

Appreciate the post. But this can be directed to new artists as well. You don't think people give the "New West" a hard time too? It's a catch 22 for them too. If they music is too innovative and new, people will write it off. If they keep it hood they are living in the past with the OGs. Shit ain't fair, but I have not seen anything different to change my viewpoint. Dubcnn is one of the only wc and hip hop outlets that showcases ALL types of music from the west and I salute them for that.

no i jus think ppl need 2 get up off they ass and live a lil' (whether they have friends or girlfriends or not).  its only a handful of ppl on here that think that way, u cant generalize it 4 everybody.  the "NEW" west is filled wit a buncha corny ass niggaz, even Bishop Lamont said dat shit, them niggaz is wack- weather they conchis or gangsta or w/e, them niggaz is wack.  u cant blame tha MASS MAJORITY of ppl EVERYWHERE 4 not likin' bullshit (theres nothing "innovative" about garbage bag muzik).  u cant go by sales anymore, i dont even kno why ppl still complain, its all about who got skiils, whether ppl realize that shit or not.  i mean c'mon do yall actually think Detox is gonna go platinum (Gold... MAYBE)?? Dr. Dre is gona have tha most downloaded album in history, i betcha life on that.  its tha same ol talk, tha same ol raps on these forums and in pop culture in general, i just havent realized why ppl havent moved on?

I don't know if you are directing the members need to move on quote towards me or not. I did state earlier in the post that there is alot of wack shit out there. I and others are talking about the dope artists that don't get recognized for dropping not the same ol run of the mill gangsta shit out here. I am not blaming the mass majority but as someone from the west I am simply trying to get some dialogue going about our artists out here. If people don't want to respond to it, there is a billion other threads they can go into.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 12, 2008, 06:27:06 PM
And Detox would DEFINITELY go plat. Actually if it went just plat it would still be considered a flop.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 12, 2008, 07:33:31 PM
im not pointin no fingers im just speakin my mind, i didnt even read most of tha shit past page 2.  Detox cant go platinum and platinum nowadays isnt considered a flop, u can compare it 2 tha economy's inflation (back then prices and pay wages 2 now).  there has been musical growth out da ass.  if Snoop woulda dropped Sexual Seduction in 95' then he wouldnt even b here (unless it was on some gangsta shit).  same wit' MOST if not all artist. 
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 12, 2008, 07:38:16 PM
im not pointin no fingers im just speakin my mind, i didnt even read most of tha shit past page 2.  Detox cant go platinum and platinum nowadays isnt considered a flop, u can compare it 2 tha economy's inflation (back then prices and pay wages 2 now).  there has been musical growth out da ass.  if Snoop woulda dropped Sexual Seduction in 95' then he wouldnt even b here (unless it was on some gangsta shit).  same wit' MOST if not all artist. 

If you go from selling 5-6 million records to 1 million, unfortunately it is considered a flop. Ask 50 if he thought Curtis was going to barely go platinum. For all that shit talking he was doing, a mil is a flop. Now for maybe a Snoop a mil is more the standard. If Dre dropped a album next month, as long as it was advertised and he had a release date he would stick by, that shit would sell at least 300-500k first week. Hell Kanye sold over 900k first week.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: BOX5 the best poster on this site yell on March 13, 2008, 01:35:29 AM
im not pointin no fingers im just speakin my mind, i didnt even read most of tha shit past page 2.  Detox cant go platinum and platinum nowadays isnt considered a flop, u can compare it 2 tha economy's inflation (back then prices and pay wages 2 now).  there has been musical growth out da ass.  if Snoop woulda dropped Sexual Seduction in 95' then he wouldnt even b here (unless it was on some gangsta shit).  same wit' MOST if not all artist. 

If you go from selling 5-6 million records to 1 million, unfortunately it is considered a flop. Ask 50 if he thought Curtis was going to barely go platinum. For all that shit talking he was doing, a mil is a flop. Now for maybe a Snoop a mil is more the standard. If Dre dropped a album next month, as long as it was advertised and he had a release date he would stick by, that shit would sell at least 300-500k first week. Hell Kanye sold over 900k first week.
yeah but kayne is top'n out at 2mill,think about that was the biggest hip hop album in awhile and it had world wide appeal and it top'd out already???, a flop is when you don't make money bacc for your project and you stay in the red,if 50 sold 3 mill stupid fans would say it's a flop,but again let one of there favorites not do good sales and they are gonna make every excuse possible to say it's not a flop, lames, buy music you enjoy,and cats need to realize once again the west is more then just gangsta shit,i like what snoop did,cause he said fucc it,i'm gonna do some shit on this album that i want to try, and even tho some songs is out there and not typical hip hop,his mindstate and how he did it is pure hip hop, with that i don't give a fucc what they think attitude,may not love it,but got to respect it yell
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: SGV on March 13, 2008, 06:44:39 AM
Why judge people for their musical preference?
So I will pass this as people in general,right?

How many Backpackers have you met?
You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Underground heads think.
I'm not judging on preference, I'm "judging" on lack of openess.

Let me change the words around a little bit for you;
"All Arabic people hate Americans and wants to kill them"  :-X
Why judge people for; where theyīre from,color,religion and sexual preferences?

How many Arabic people have you met?
You must have not met many if any at all to not understand how Arabic people think.

 :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
...Warning;
No netbanging,name calling allowed in here,this is a serious thread.


Iīll just leave this thread with these words;
Iīm tired of this bickering between the alternative scene and the gangster scene.
Whoīs most real,underground and hardcore... etc.  :P
Itīs even more pathetic when the fans innvolve themself.  :P :-X :-\


LMAO @ Comparing Arabics to Backpackers. That's absurd. Again, I ask, how many Backpackers have you met? Please don't run around the question this time.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 13, 2008, 12:36:00 PM
im not pointin no fingers im just speakin my mind, i didnt even read most of tha shit past page 2.  Detox cant go platinum and platinum nowadays isnt considered a flop, u can compare it 2 tha economy's inflation (back then prices and pay wages 2 now).  there has been musical growth out da ass.  if Snoop woulda dropped Sexual Seduction in 95' then he wouldnt even b here (unless it was on some gangsta shit).  same wit' MOST if not all artist. 

If you go from selling 5-6 million records to 1 million, unfortunately it is considered a flop. Ask 50 if he thought Curtis was going to barely go platinum. For all that shit talking he was doing, a mil is a flop. Now for maybe a Snoop a mil is more the standard. If Dre dropped a album next month, as long as it was advertised and he had a release date he would stick by, that shit would sell at least 300-500k first week. Hell Kanye sold over 900k first week.
yeah but kayne is top'n out at 2mill,think about that was the biggest hip hop album in awhile and it had world wide appeal and it top'd out already???, a flop is when you don't make money bacc for your project and you stay in the red,if 50 sold 3 mill stupid fans would say it's a flop,but again let one of there favorites not do good sales and they are gonna make every excuse possible to say it's not a flop, lames, buy music you enjoy,and cats need to realize once again the west is more then just gangsta shit,i like what snoop did,cause he said fucc it,i'm gonna do some shit on this album that i want to try, and even tho some songs is out there and not typical hip hop,his mindstate and how he did it is pure hip hop, with that i don't give a fucc what they think attitude,may not love it,but got to respect it yell

Agreed. To most people it looks like a flop but as long as you ain't owning.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: John Doe on March 13, 2008, 02:20:59 PM
people hear westcoast and it's automatically - "my lowrida, bloods, crips, bitchs, chronic, khakis" type shit.... not hatin' i love west coast music, and there ain't nuthin like a classic westcoast anthem/ but people always gotta be open to new sounds and styles...

WWW.MYSPACE.COM/JOHNDOE760
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: arthurnelson88 on March 13, 2008, 03:12:48 PM
im not pointin no fingers im just speakin my mind, i didnt even read most of tha shit past page 2.  Detox cant go platinum and platinum nowadays isnt considered a flop, u can compare it 2 tha economy's inflation (back then prices and pay wages 2 now).  there has been musical growth out da ass.  if Snoop woulda dropped Sexual Seduction in 95' then he wouldnt even b here (unless it was on some gangsta shit).  same wit' MOST if not all artist. 

If you go from selling 5-6 million records to 1 million, unfortunately it is considered a flop. Ask 50 if he thought Curtis was going to barely go platinum. For all that shit talking he was doing, a mil is a flop. Now for maybe a Snoop a mil is more the standard. If Dre dropped a album next month, as long as it was advertised and he had a release date he would stick by, that shit would sell at least 300-500k first week. Hell Kanye sold over 900k first week.

would ya'll PLEASE STOP going by sales, sales r done, they're over with, they're tha old way of measuring an artist.  EVERYONE from Fiona Apple 2 Bathgate is going to suffer (in a sense ) from sales so u cant measure it like that anymore.  It's NOT considered a flop- ur actually doing EXTRAVAGINT if u sell a million (even if ur a brand new star or a vet), if Dr. Dre sold 10,000 albums he would STILL be Dr. Dre- it would have NOTHING 2 do wit sales.  50 knew Kanye was going 2 outsell him, u had 2 b a blind muthafucka not 2 c that, and it has NOTHING 2 do wit' popularity bcuz they're BOTH HUGE artist.  Platinum is not tha standard anymore, it never really was- except 2006/2007.  Dre probably would sell a mill now that i think about it BUT Interscope would probably buy half just so Dre could keep his name good, ur tryna argue wit' some1 who is a music condinsuer- ur gonna lose lol.  50 or Kanye wouldnt even have sold as much if it wasnt 4 tha publicity, why do u think NOONE believed it in tha 1st place- it went dead quikly.  SOULJA BOY woulda went DIAMOND off his single if it wasnt 4 leechers- remember the group "Tag Team", now white folx wasnt on hip hop like that back then like they r now, so add all tha new fans and people who love dance songs- sales woulda SKY ROCKETED.  look this topic went from growth to Snoop Dogg 2 sales, and wat they both have in common is ppl are used 2 an old way of thinkin' about shit and not opend minded enuff 2 CONSIDER something else.  u want something fresh and brand new right up off tha shelves then go 2 sckool 4 music and do it urselvs.  todays is a new game, hell its not even tha early 2000's anymore- shit is on a brand new plateu, why do u think mixtapes are so popular?  now instead of a MAINSTREAM artist droppin nothin' but "Get Low pt. 300000" and "I'm A Gangsta pt. 50000000" on their albums, they can branch out and do wat tha fuck they want on mixtapes- ya'll should peep them out b4 u write off an artist like a Plies or a Rick Ross....
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D~Nice on March 13, 2008, 06:46:41 PM
im not pointin no fingers im just speakin my mind, i didnt even read most of tha shit past page 2.  Detox cant go platinum and platinum nowadays isnt considered a flop, u can compare it 2 tha economy's inflation (back then prices and pay wages 2 now).  there has been musical growth out da ass.  if Snoop woulda dropped Sexual Seduction in 95' then he wouldnt even b here (unless it was on some gangsta shit).  same wit' MOST if not all artist. 

If you go from selling 5-6 million records to 1 million, unfortunately it is considered a flop. Ask 50 if he thought Curtis was going to barely go platinum. For all that shit talking he was doing, a mil is a flop. Now for maybe a Snoop a mil is more the standard. If Dre dropped a album next month, as long as it was advertised and he had a release date he would stick by, that shit would sell at least 300-500k first week. Hell Kanye sold over 900k first week.

would ya'll PLEASE STOP going by sales, sales r done, they're over with, they're tha old way of measuring an artist.  EVERYONE from Fiona Apple 2 Bathgate is going to suffer (in a sense ) from sales so u cant measure it like that anymore.  It's NOT considered a flop- ur actually doing EXTRAVAGINT if u sell a million (even if ur a brand new star or a vet), if Dr. Dre sold 10,000 albums he would STILL be Dr. Dre- it would have NOTHING 2 do wit sales.  50 knew Kanye was going 2 outsell him, u had 2 b a blind muthafucka not 2 c that, and it has NOTHING 2 do wit' popularity bcuz they're BOTH HUGE artist.  Platinum is not tha standard anymore, it never really was- except 2006/2007.  Dre probably would sell a mill now that i think about it BUT Interscope would probably buy half just so Dre could keep his name good, ur tryna argue wit' some1 who is a music condinsuer- ur gonna lose lol.  50 or Kanye wouldnt even have sold as much if it wasnt 4 tha publicity, why do u think NOONE believed it in tha 1st place- it went dead quikly.  SOULJA BOY woulda went DIAMOND off his single if it wasnt 4 leechers- remember the group "Tag Team", now white folx wasnt on hip hop like that back then like they r now, so add all tha new fans and people who love dance songs- sales woulda SKY ROCKETED.  look this topic went from growth to Snoop Dogg 2 sales, and wat they both have in common is ppl are used 2 an old way of thinkin' about shit and not opend minded enuff 2 CONSIDER something else.  u want something fresh and brand new right up off tha shelves then go 2 sckool 4 music and do it urselvs.  todays is a new game, hell its not even tha early 2000's anymore- shit is on a brand new plateu, why do u think mixtapes are so popular?  now instead of a MAINSTREAM artist droppin nothin' but "Get Low pt. 300000" and "I'm A Gangsta pt. 50000000" on their albums, they can branch out and do wat tha fuck they want on mixtapes- ya'll should peep them out b4 u write off an artist like a Plies or a Rick Ross....

U need to make your mind up man. U brought up sales and saying that Dre could not go plat. All I said was he can. period. Now you want people to stop talking about it.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: soopadoopaflykid on October 29, 2008, 11:52:59 AM
bump  ;)
;D
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Black Excellence on October 29, 2008, 02:27:09 PM
snoop went way to far to the left on that eggo drippin' bullshit. i think snoop showed a lot of diversity on tha blue carpet treatment album because it wasn't just gangsta shit(even though i can listen to gangsta snoop forever) it had shit that make you ponder a bit. the west needs to get their musical backing back. it has nothing to do wit the 90's. dre doesn't make beats that sound like the first chronic any more but he didn't abandon his sound either.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: SUCKA FREE on October 29, 2008, 05:09:38 PM
Why cant it be that Snoop just can't rap anymore. He is very simplistic on the mic and says the same thing on to many songs. He sounds awful on the new E-40 song with Game. His verse is unlistenable as was ego Trippin. Dude just lost it thats all. Lots of artists loose it after while thats why they stop recording and just tour with their old material. Still a good living.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Chad Vader on October 29, 2008, 05:42:17 PM
Snoop went way to far to the left on that ego drippin' bullshit.
I think snoop showed a lot of diversity on tha blue carpet treatment album because it wasn't just gangster shit(even though i can listen to gangster snoop forever) it had shit that make you ponder a bit.
the west needs to get their musical backing back.
it has nothing to do wit the 90's.
Dre doesn't make beats that sound like the first Chronic any more but he didn't abandon his sound either.

Why cant it be that Snoop just can't rap anymore.
He is very simplistic on the Mic and says the same thing on to many songs.
He sounds awful on the new E-40 song with Game. His verse is unlistenable as was Ego Trippin.
Dude just lost it thats all. Lots of artists loose it after while thats why they stop recording and just tour with their old material. Still a good living.


Related threads;
Ego Trippin is underrated (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=178487.msg1826362#msg1826362)
+
Snoop Dogg's next LP? (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=179990.msg1841574#msg1841574)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Black Excellence on October 29, 2008, 05:52:59 PM
I heard some of the best west coast songs in a long time from Jayo Felony and it's not all g funked out( i hope some in on the album) but it's fresh and it's west coast music. The production on Game's album is good. no down south crunk shit. muthafuckas is turning in to followers instead of trend setters like they used to be Ice Cube ain't even the same no more. he raps over shit the ying yang twins would be rapping to. it's not even about letting them grow but are they growing ? is snoop letting another nigga write his album growing ? my thing is grow and top the standard each and every time by delivering great product.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Dre-Day on June 11, 2009, 06:50:33 AM
i had to bring back this great topic by D~Nice: it never gets old.

it keeps surprising me that some people on this forum actually believe that growing as an artist, is equal to making more accessible music and/or taking a 180 degree spin with the direction.

let's make this clear: making more accessible music, does not mean that an artist has grown: he/she is just trying to appeal to a bigger audience ( to stay relevant).
when an artist has grown, it means that he/she has developed himself/herself more.

like some other poster had mentioned before, a great example of this is producer Dr.Dre: he has switched up his sound several times but he keeps it true to himself.

with each new Paris soloalbum, you kind of know what to expect of it: that doesn't take anything away from the quality at all.
if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
not to mention that he actually addresses issues that are relevant today.

so it doesn't mean that DJ Quik & Kurupt can't make dance/club music; same with Cube.
but it did affect the quality of Raw Footage to me. with blaqkout, i appreciate Fuck Y'all, but overall the album stinks.

"He can't say that", yes he can, I just did
Now guess again, you better text message your next of kin


artists should do what they do best: fuck being relevant & it's pointless to try to be something, that you're not
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Blasphemy on June 11, 2009, 07:42:35 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

First they have to actually have fucking growth. Not fucking Rehash, Stop making songs that are just fucking Sequels...Now some are good sequels, I mean if Detox came with a "final" episode, and sucked bawls, we would call it out. If it was amazing. We would call it amazing. Snoop sound is softer, and RnB. I mean he always said that "You gotta get yours before I get mine" shit. Look at the lyrics of DoggyStyle. He sings the same fucking thing over and over, just in a different tune, with a different beat. He modifies word play to make it sound different.

Now if his ass can actually come up with better lyrics besides his usual shit. Then He's grown lyrical (or fucked up. Depends on what he chooses). Another thing that pisses me off, is these fucking West Coast Artist selling out their roots, then expect our fucking support. Look at The Game, D.A. was a choice album, classic west coast sound. Now look at L.A.X. I mean honestly wtf??? How could he go from the grinding west coast style, to East/south produce beats.


The fucking nigga had a FUCKING SONG CALLED MONEY!!! MONEY!!! OK!!! You CAN'T fucking SELL OUT MORE then that shit. Fucking Eminem's ass sold out with Crack A Bottle. Yet the same mother fuckers here who say "fuck that club shit" Are banging out Crack a bottle like its not 1. When Crack a Bottle's Lyrics are describing them in a club, with fucking cars, and money (50's verse mostly).

I'll bang out the West Coast artist better shit only. The times when they didn't sell out or give a fuck about the Censors. Some mother fuckers can't get passed the same shit. Look at Eminem (I know he isn;t west) but look at his album Relapse. Same shit: Homosexuals, So called "Shock" Lyrics, Slim Shady, Drug abuse and his Mom. Only thing he forgot was KIM and I bet her ass will be on Relapse 2 getting shot by him again.

I'm fucking sick and tired of fucking artist from any fucking coast, afraid to do anything fucking innovated anymore. They all go into the same area, with nothing new. Look at Jay Z: His bitch ass Is copying Movies, He's copied Artist, Barrow fucking rhymes. His bitch ass needs to pick up a pen and just fucking thing. Then you got all these fucking arrtards on Pac. Barrowing Pac verses, Throwing up Tupac. When he was alive he wasn't FUCKING WITH YOU.HE was Dissing your bitch ass, 4 good reason, and while you artist didn't have the balls to put a Pac diss on your record, You weren't afraid to do it on radio stations, and various other places, but I guess since their is no record. You can play people thinking pac was insane.

Now today Artist are starting to become hypocrites. Look at Cypress Hill. III Temples of Boom had them talking down to other rappers who have Pop songs as Singles. Now they doing it, going mainstream and have dropped their Sonic production style after IV.

Can I allow musical Growth??? Oh fucking A, I want Fucking Lyrical growth. I want all these artist to put something into their work. I'm talking Lyrical shit. Like Nas on Illmatic, or Eminem on TMMLP or fucking Rakim.

Everyone of these fucking artist are failing to grow lyrically. They either Sell out, Rehash, or just being hypocrites. Only asshole who's actually done it right is fucking Dr. Dre. He's Dropped 2 fucking albums. Both of which are still in heavy rotation among artist, fans, radio stations, TV stations. I mean their are other artist who did it right also, but that's like only about 10 tops.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Dre-Day on June 11, 2009, 10:23:25 AM
^i think i'm a bit more tolerant than you, but you perfectly broke down the points i was trying to make ;)
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Scrappy Doo on June 11, 2009, 12:11:52 PM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

First they have to actually have fucking growth. Not fucking Rehash, Stop making songs that are just fucking Sequels...Now some are good sequels, I mean if Detox came with a "final" episode, and sucked bawls, we would call it out. If it was amazing. We would call it amazing. Snoop sound is softer, and RnB. I mean he always said that "You gotta get yours before I get mine" shit. Look at the lyrics of DoggyStyle. He sings the same fucking thing over and over, just in a different tune, with a different beat. He modifies word play to make it sound different.

Now if his ass can actually come up with better lyrics besides his usual shit. Then He's grown lyrical (or fucked up. Depends on what he chooses). Another thing that pisses me off, is these fucking West Coast Artist selling out their roots, then expect our fucking support. Look at The Game, D.A. was a choice album, classic west coast sound. Now look at L.A.X. I mean honestly wtf??? How could he go from the grinding west coast style, to East/south produce beats.


The fucking nigga had a FUCKING SONG CALLED MONEY!!! MONEY!!! OK!!! You CAN'T fucking SELL OUT MORE then that shit. Fucking Eminem's ass sold out with Crack A Bottle. Yet the same mother fuckers here who say "fuck that club shit" Are banging out Crack a bottle like its not 1. When Crack a Bottle's Lyrics are describing them in a club, with fucking cars, and money (50's verse mostly).

I'll bang out the West Coast artist better shit only. The times when they didn't sell out or give a fuck about the Censors. Some mother fuckers can't get passed the same shit. Look at Eminem (I know he isn;t west) but look at his album Relapse. Same shit: Homosexuals, So called "Shock" Lyrics, Slim Shady, Drug abuse and his Mom. Only thing he forgot was KIM and I bet her ass will be on Relapse 2 getting shot by him again.

I'm fucking sick and tired of fucking artist from any fucking coast, afraid to do anything fucking innovated anymore. They all go into the same area, with nothing new. Look at Jay Z: His bitch ass Is copying Movies, He's copied Artist, Barrow fucking rhymes. His bitch ass needs to pick up a pen and just fucking thing. Then you got all these fucking arrtards on Pac. Barrowing Pac verses, Throwing up Tupac. When he was alive he wasn't FUCKING WITH YOU.HE was Dissing your bitch ass, 4 good reason, and while you artist didn't have the balls to put a Pac diss on your record, You weren't afraid to do it on radio stations, and various other places, but I guess since their is no record. You can play people thinking pac was insane.

Now today Artist are starting to become hypocrites. Look at Cypress Hill. III Temples of Boom had them talking down to other rappers who have Pop songs as Singles. Now they doing it, going mainstream and have dropped their Sonic production style after IV.

Can I allow musical Growth??? Oh fucking A, I want Fucking Lyrical growth. I want all these artist to put something into their work. I'm talking Lyrical shit. Like Nas on Illmatic, or Eminem on TMMLP or fucking Rakim.

Everyone of these fucking artist are failing to grow lyrically. They either Sell out, Rehash, or just being hypocrites. Only asshole who's actually done it right is fucking Dr. Dre. He's Dropped 2 fucking albums. Both of which are still in heavy rotation among artist, fans, radio stations, TV stations. I mean their are other artist who did it right also, but that's like only about 10 tops.

We have a winner post of the month !!!
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: D-Nice on June 11, 2009, 06:10:37 PM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

First they have to actually have fucking growth. Not fucking Rehash, Stop making songs that are just fucking Sequels...Now some are good sequels, I mean if Detox came with a "final" episode, and sucked bawls, we would call it out. If it was amazing. We would call it amazing. Snoop sound is softer, and RnB. I mean he always said that "You gotta get yours before I get mine" shit. Look at the lyrics of DoggyStyle. He sings the same fucking thing over and over, just in a different tune, with a different beat. He modifies word play to make it sound different.

Now if his ass can actually come up with better lyrics besides his usual shit. Then He's grown lyrical (or fucked up. Depends on what he chooses). Another thing that pisses me off, is these fucking West Coast Artist selling out their roots, then expect our fucking support. Look at The Game, D.A. was a choice album, classic west coast sound. Now look at L.A.X. I mean honestly wtf??? How could he go from the grinding west coast style, to East/south produce beats.


The fucking nigga had a FUCKING SONG CALLED MONEY!!! MONEY!!! OK!!! You CAN'T fucking SELL OUT MORE then that shit. Fucking Eminem's ass sold out with Crack A Bottle. Yet the same mother fuckers here who say "fuck that club shit" Are banging out Crack a bottle like its not 1. When Crack a Bottle's Lyrics are describing them in a club, with fucking cars, and money (50's verse mostly).

I'll bang out the West Coast artist better shit only. The times when they didn't sell out or give a fuck about the Censors. Some mother fuckers can't get passed the same shit. Look at Eminem (I know he isn;t west) but look at his album Relapse. Same shit: Homosexuals, So called "Shock" Lyrics, Slim Shady, Drug abuse and his Mom. Only thing he forgot was KIM and I bet her ass will be on Relapse 2 getting shot by him again.

I'm fucking sick and tired of fucking artist from any fucking coast, afraid to do anything fucking innovated anymore. They all go into the same area, with nothing new. Look at Jay Z: His bitch ass Is copying Movies, He's copied Artist, Barrow fucking rhymes. His bitch ass needs to pick up a pen and just fucking thing. Then you got all these fucking arrtards on Pac. Barrowing Pac verses, Throwing up Tupac. When he was alive he wasn't FUCKING WITH YOU.HE was Dissing your bitch ass, 4 good reason, and while you artist didn't have the balls to put a Pac diss on your record, You weren't afraid to do it on radio stations, and various other places, but I guess since their is no record. You can play people thinking pac was insane.

Now today Artist are starting to become hypocrites. Look at Cypress Hill. III Temples of Boom had them talking down to other rappers who have Pop songs as Singles. Now they doing it, going mainstream and have dropped their Sonic production style after IV.

Can I allow musical Growth??? Oh fucking A, I want Fucking Lyrical growth. I want all these artist to put something into their work. I'm talking Lyrical shit. Like Nas on Illmatic, or Eminem on TMMLP or fucking Rakim.

Everyone of these fucking artist are failing to grow lyrically. They either Sell out, Rehash, or just being hypocrites. Only asshole who's actually done it right is fucking Dr. Dre. He's Dropped 2 fucking albums. Both of which are still in heavy rotation among artist, fans, radio stations, TV stations. I mean their are other artist who did it right also, but that's like only about 10 tops.

Love this post, dead on. No homo lol. I guess for me at times it seems the fans are just as confused as the artists. There are definitely some blatant attempts at mainstream success from rappers but there is also alot of flip flopping from fans that really do not know what they want either. As long as the music has musical and lyrical progression and growth like you said, I am happy. Change mixed it there is cool sometimes too.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: V2DHeart on June 11, 2009, 08:49:35 PM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

Snoop is a terrible example. His growth as an artist has been on a steady decline in terms of his quality to deliver and his rap/lyrical ability has just got worse and worse. He has to, or "wants" to rely heavily on current pop artists (like Madonna has to do now) to survive the mainstream. First Pharrell/N.E.R.D, then Justin Timberlake, then a downward spiral of a reality TV show into his family life  :-\ All the signs of someone who has to cling onto others, or to exploit his everyday life to get mainstream coverage... Back on Death Row he was hungry, he was younger, more fierce, and had ambitions - like most young artists. Very few actually carry the passion when they're successful. Some will be experimental in music and it'll pay off - depending on the work, effort, and passion they put into it. If they want a quick payday and try to create a sound for todays market, it'll more than likely pay with the right marketing team behind them, but the end result is a quick 5 minute empty hit, which sucks, and that is what we've seen from Snoop Dogg for the past 8 years or so

DJ Quik was expiremental in Trauma, and that was actually good - not a big fan of the album, and prefer - LOVE the signature Quik sound, but that album was fresh renewed etc. and paid off, because the quality was there. Some can deliver if they still have the fire, but if they're just in it for the quick pay day regardless of how it reflects their image, then what we'll recieve is b*llshyt year after year. That's why people like Snoop work with Justins, the P.Diddys, Pussycat Dolls, Lil Waynes etc. They don't care who or what they work with as long as they get another quick pay, whereas when they're younger they seem to have a back bone,, and are more selective
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: NEW WEST 2012 on December 26, 2009, 12:03:49 AM
WELL FANS FOLLOW SUCCESS IN THE END, SO WHATEVER YOU DO TO MAKE YOU SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE ARE GONNA HATE!!! THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Black Excellence on December 26, 2009, 10:41:59 AM
speaking for myself i don't mind growth from west coast music as long as is dope and it isn't compromising an artists vision. me being a die hard west coast fan, i love what was done in the 90's from the west coast but todays a new day i feel especially the production level of the west coast needs to step back up and evolve from what the 90's was. that being said daz needs to really step it back up. he was once one of the greats now snoop doesn't even use his beats no more. oh and a friend of mine told me snoop said somethin like niggas like biggie and t.i. and everybody took the west coast style. well snoop if u feel niggas  took they style from the west use that style and stop bitchin' nothin' is gangsta but 3 songs on malice n.... and someone took the west coast  style. his new album sounds like a reflection of the trash that's out.
Title: Re: Why West Coast Fans Do Not Allow Musical Growth In Their Artists?
Post by: Do Dirty on December 27, 2009, 01:14:22 AM
Chad's review of Ego Trippin has got alot of people talking so I decided to make this thread. And it is by no means a diss to anyone. I notice with west coast artists in particular, fans are most critical of when they try something new or go a new direction in their music they almost write them off. Snoop is a example. Snoop is at a catch 22 with most. When he does gangsta shit, it pleases some but others are like he is living in the past. When he does shit with Pharrell (and he does have some dope songs with him) people automatically write it off as pop shit. If it's with Dre it's not as good as the Chronic stuff they did.

So I guess my question is why can't people allow musical growth in wc artists? I know alot of the music in the 90's was incredible material but it ain't the 90's anymore. Why not have a open ear to what rappers are trying to do. Now by all means there is alot of wack shit out there and I am not talking about the weaker material. Drop ya 2 cents.

My man, that's jusy hip-hop fans in general. They say the same thing about Jay, Nas, Kanye and pretty much every other rapper out there