West Coast Connection Forum

Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: CWalker187 on October 23, 2002, 11:09:49 PM

Title: Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: CWalker187 on October 23, 2002, 11:09:49 PM
However, they were nice enough to allow all Muslims in the theatre to escape unharmed.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,66515,00.html

Gunmen Take Theater Audience Hostage in Moscow
 
Thursday, October 24, 2002
 
MOSCOW — At least 40 armed Chechen rebels stormed a crowded theater and took hundreds of people hostage in the midst of a musical, threatening early Thursday to shoot their captives and blow up the building if Russian security forces attacked.

 
Several hours after the rebels rushed the theater, firing automatic weapons, they began communicating with Russian officials by cell phone. The hostage-takers demanded that Russia end the war in Chechnya, a southern region where the army is fighting Islamic separatists.

Some hostages released by the gunmen reported seeing pools of blood. But there was no confirmation of casualties at the theater in a working-class neighborhood of southeastern Moscow, about three miles from Red Square.

The rebels had automatic weapons, grenades, belts with explosives attached, mines and canisters of gasoline, lawmaker Yuli Rybakov said outside the theater. There was little water or food inside, he said. The raid occurred in wet, freezing weather.

The gunmen told national parliament member Aslanbek Aslakhanov from Chechnya, who was serving as a mediator, that they wanted Russian troops to withdraw from Chechnya and implement a cease-fire, he said. A pro-rebel Web site said Russia had seven days to begin its withdrawal or the theater and hostages would be blown up.

The raid brought home to the very heart of Russia a war seen as far-off by many Russians despite a growing number of military and civilian casualties. The Russian military has been especially tough on rebels, but several hostages, speaking by cell phone to Russian reporters, appealed to security forces not to use force in the Moscow siege.

"There are women, children, foreigners in here," cardiologist Maria Shkolnikova told REN TV. "We don't want the building to be stormed."

She said hostage-takers had lost family members in the war.

Russian security forces do not intend to storm the building unless the hostage-takers start killing their captives, said Gennady Gudkov, deputy chairman of the parliamentary Committee on Security.

Automatic weapons fire rang out on at least four separate occasions. Security forces were on high alert throughout the Russian capital and around power plants after the audacious attack, which appeared to be meticulously planned.

The drama was a blow for President Vladimir Putin, who repeatedly has said Russia has the Chechnya situation under control. Putin scrapped planned trips to Germany and Portugal, his spokesman, Alexei Gromov, told the Interfax news agency. It was unclear whether Putin would attend a weekend summit in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico, where he was to meet with President Bush.

While Putin's popularity remains high, recent opinion polls show declining public support for the war.

"We condemn what's happening in Chechnya," Shkolnikova told REN TV.

Moscow police spokesman Valery Gribakin said about 40-50 rebels were in the theater and they had released 100 women and children from the theater. The freed hostages were distraught, sobbing and shaking as they emerged from the building where they were watching a popular musical based on a romantic novel.

"The terrorists are demanding one thing — the end to the war in Chechnya," Gribakin said.

Police towed cars parked near the theater and evacuated patients from a nearby hospital.

Members of the Chechen community in Moscow have volunteered to replace the hostages, especially children, Gribakin said.

Those released did not see any dead bodies, but said the hostage-takers had beaten some audience members. Two pregnant women were later released.

Inside the theater, frantic hostages called families, television and radio stations on their cell phones, which started to run out of battery power early Thursday. Outside, worried Muscovites waited in the dark for news of their relatives.

Russian news reports said the rebels offered to release 50 more hostages if Akhmad Kadyrov, the head of Chechnya's Moscow-appointed administration, came to the theater.

ITAR-Tass said the gunmen were laying mines inside the theater. Other Russian media reports said the rebels threatened to shoot hostages if Russian security forces stormed the building. TV6 television news said the attackers had explosives on their bodies and would blow themselves up if attacked.

Gribakin, the police spokesman, said there were about 600 people inside the theater when it was seized. The German Foreign Ministry confirmed there were Germans inside. Russian news reports said three British citizens also were in the theater.

In Washington, the White House said it was not aware of any Americans being held. Spokesman Sean McCormack said Bush was monitoring the situation.

"There are no causes or national aspirations that justify the taking of innocent hostages," McCormack said in a statement. "We condemn terrorism in all its forms. Our thoughts and prayers are with the hostages and their families."

A woman who made her way out of the theater told a television interviewer the men wore camouflage as they took the stage, fired into the air and said: "Don't you understand what's going on? We are Chechens."

News reports said the hostage-takers arrived in jeep-like vehicles just as the second act of the play was about to begin. When police and security forces surrounded the theater, the attackers opened fire and threw a grenade. One of the hostages, a doctor, was treating a wounded hostage-taker.

Russia is involved in a bloody war in Chechnya, trying to put down a decade-old separatist insurrection in the oil-rich region. News reports cited a Chechen rebel Web site as saying the group was led by Movsar Barayev, the nephew of warlord Arbi Barayev, who reportedly was killed last year.

The Web site said some of the women hostage-takers were widows of Chechen rebels killed in the war with Russia and said the rebels were "smertniki," a Russian word for fighters prepared to die for a cause.

"By the scope it can only be compared to the tragedy in New York. The situation is extreme now," liberal Russian lawmaker Boris Nemtsov said in a television interview. "We must start a dialogue."

The Chechens are among the most independent-minded groups in the country, battling the czars in the 19th century before being finally defeated and their land absorbed into Russia.

Stalin deported them en masse to Kazakhstan in 1944 for allegedly betraying the Soviet Union and supporting Hitler. They were allowed to return to their homes in 1957. The fierce fighters declared independence from the Soviet Union shortly before it collapsed in 1991, and Russian forces subsequently invaded the region to put down the rebellion.

Chechen rebel leader Shamil Basayev helped force Russia to the negotiating table by leading a bloody raid on the town of Budyonnovsk in a neighboring Russian region in June 1995. His fighters briefly took more than 1,000 hostages and then escaped back into Chechnya. More than 100 civilians died.

Russian forces left Chechnya in 1996 after the disastrous two-year war but returned in 1999 after rebels raided a neighboring region and Russian authorities blamed insurgents for a series of apartment bombings in Russia that killed more than 300 people.

The theater, a former Soviet-era House of Culture, was staging a performance of the musical Nord-Ost ("North-East" in German), one of Moscow's most popular productions.

The musical is based on Veniamin Kaverin's novel Two Captains. The romantic novel recounts the story of two students and their different destinies during the Soviet times. The theater's producer, Alexander Tsekalo, said on Russian television that the theater could hold 1,163 people.
 
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: infinite59 on October 23, 2002, 11:47:57 PM
Nevermind that Muslims are persecuted daily in Russia for their religious beliefs.  The national religion of Russia is atheist.  The Muslims in that country are not free to practice their faith.
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: 415 Playa on October 24, 2002, 01:08:14 AM
that don't give you the right to take hostages just for religion shit !
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: infinite59 on October 24, 2002, 01:14:50 AM
that don't give you the right to take hostages just for religion shit !

Okay, well you condemn the government for persecuting people for their religious practices and then I'll condemn the Muslims for taking hostages!!!!!!!!!  

Your talking about Muslims being in prison for life for their religious beliefs.  There is no wonder Muslims in Russia are beggining to take action!!!!!!!
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: 415 Playa on October 24, 2002, 01:49:41 AM
that don't give you the right to take hostages just for religion shit !

Okay, well you condemn the government for persecuting people for their religious practices and then I'll condemn the Muslims for taking hostages!!!!!!!!!  

Your talking about Muslims being in prison for life for their religious beliefs.  There is no wonder Muslims in Russia are beggining to take action!!!!!!!

Of course the muslims are persecuted in Russia, I know that shit & that's just bad shit from the russians.

But it's never good to take hostages.

Peace
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Siberian Wolf on October 24, 2002, 02:33:06 AM
Nevermind that Muslims are persecuted daily in Russia for their religious beliefs.  The national religion of Russia is atheist.  The Muslims in that country are not free to practice their faith.

Infinite, you've been a dumb fuck in the old forum and you re staying the same in the new. You don't know SHIT about situation in Russia and your sorry ass stil talks. Official religions in Russia are Christianity, Islam, Buddism. We hold more than 200 nationalities, we got more than 30 millions Muslims, how in the fuck could they not be free in their faith? Chechens are not rebels , they are fuckin terrorists, they kidnap people, kill thousands of militiamen, they take hostages, blow up houses, and  YOUR FUCKIN ASS STILL DARES TO SAY THEY CAN CONTINUE KILLING MY PEOPLE!!!!!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself, because we're not talking about beliefs, we're talkin about terrorism, and you come here with your 15-year old information about atheism in my country! "Persecuted daily"!!!!! You act like you're educated and shit, but you try to show facts that are less real than a square Earth!!! Next you gon' say that Russians have three ears, or two heads, or that we practice sex with bears, or that we walk on four feet!!! Your shame ass needs to shut the fuck up since you can't see past your own nose!

You fucked up idiot.
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on October 24, 2002, 03:13:37 AM
^ HOW ABOUT U QUIT THE LONG SPEECH  AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION...

IS RUSSIA PERSECUTING CHECHENS OR NOT?

Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: RAPQUAKE on October 24, 2002, 03:58:53 AM
^ HOW ABOUT U QUIT THE LONG SPEECH  AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION...

IS RUSSIA PERSECUTING CHECHENS OR NOT?



SHUT THE FUCK UP FAGGOT
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: verbalassaulta on October 24, 2002, 09:32:02 AM
more typical muslim actions  >:(
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Trauma-san on October 24, 2002, 12:10:51 PM
Russia is not officialy athiest.  
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on October 24, 2002, 01:14:41 PM
^ HOW ABOUT U QUIT THE LONG SPEECH  AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION...

IS RUSSIA PERSECUTING CHECHENS OR NOT?



SHUT THE FUCK UP FAGGOT

lol its pretty sad that cuz i sonned you so bad when we debate that you resort to this...
by the way, do u even know where Chechnya is? lol, fuckin idiot, dont show up in discussions where you dont know anything

now, Siberian Wolf, i dont really know you but if u deny the presecution of the Chechens byt he Russians both historically and presently, you're brainwashed
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: infinite59 on October 24, 2002, 01:24:57 PM
Nevermind that Muslims are persecuted daily in Russia for their religious beliefs.  The national religion of Russia is atheist.  The Muslims in that country are not free to practice their faith.

Infinite, you've been a dumb fuck in the old forum and you re staying the same in the new. You don't know SHIT about situation in Russia and your sorry ass stil talks. Official religions in Russia are Christianity, Islam, Buddism. We hold more than 200 nationalities, we got more than 30 millions Muslims, how in the fuck could they not be free in their faith? Chechens are not rebels , they are fuckin terrorists, they kidnap people, kill thousands of militiamen, they take hostages, blow up houses, and  YOUR FUCKIN ASS STILL DARES TO SAY THEY CAN CONTINUE KILLING MY PEOPLE!!!!!!!! You should be ashamed of yourself, because we're not talking about beliefs, we're talkin about terrorism, and you come here with your 15-year old information about atheism in my country! "Persecuted daily"!!!!! You act like you're educated and shit, but you try to show facts that are less real than a square Earth!!! Next you gon' say that Russians have three ears, or two heads, or that we practice sex with bears, or that we walk on four feet!!! Your shame ass needs to shut the fuck up since you can't see past your own nose!

You fucked up idiot.

I never liked you either.  I am going off what an Imam said.  He said that they are atheists in Russia, and that the Muslims are being heavily persecuted there for their religion.  And now what has happened is there has been a war in Russia for a long time now.  With thousands of casulties on both sides.  And the Russian government is leaving no room for negotiation or peace talks.  President Putin said that Russian troops will be stationed in Chechnya "forever."

The thing is the Muslims could be very wrong.  But I doubt that they are just crazy, and just killing people for no reason like you make it out to be.  
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: CWalker187 on October 24, 2002, 02:01:22 PM
Muslims in Russia have freedom to practice their religion, just like Christian, Hindus, Jews etc. The problem with Muslims there is the same problem with Muslims all over the world: they refuse to live in peace and harmony with other groups. Just like in Nigeria, Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc, they want to use violence and terrorism to overthrow the existing government and impose Islamic law on the population. These Chechnyans want to create an Islamic state in Russia.
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Doggystylin on October 24, 2002, 03:29:51 PM

SHUT THE FUCK UP FAGGOT

lmao...damn what a intelligent reply...sometimes i wonder....why arent you in harvard right now?...
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: RAPQUAKE on October 24, 2002, 03:36:19 PM
Haha cuz I didn't apply and FYI UCSD is better than any school U will get into, im pretty sure of that, lol

LMAO@Doggy CRITICIZIN ME about "intelligence"

yeah and sorry for my lack of intelligence I was kinda drunk when I said that...i was just pissed off at tech's dumb question. Haha and yeah I know where chechnya is fool. lol. BITCH ASS PATHAN
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: CWalker187 on October 24, 2002, 04:14:23 PM
RapQuake is 100 times smarter than all of y'all.
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Doggystylin on October 24, 2002, 05:26:23 PM
RapQuake is 100 times smarter than all of y'all.

cuz he came out and said shut the fuck up faggot?

wow, that explains a lot now, now i see what you think smart is now
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Siberian Wolf on October 24, 2002, 11:29:51 PM
^ HOW ABOUT U QUIT THE LONG SPEECH  AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION...

IS RUSSIA PERSECUTING CHECHENS OR NOT?



Let me clear this up for you.

Chechnya was conquered two centuries ago by the czar forces, and that's a fact. In the 90's Chechenian separatists tried to make it a separate country, not even knowing what to do with independence. See, it's a fact that Chechenians, Georgians and some other Caucasian nations had always kidnaped people to live off that, there's a whole lotta bandits among them, they themselves consider it's in their blood. But in the 90s they started to do it actively. When they tried to conquer Daghestan in 1999 I think, Putin sent troops to stop them bandits. Regular Chechen people never wanted war, but their own sons start it. Now, when our troops try to kill them bandits, they say "we're regular people, stop killin us". The next day they throw on their war clothes and go kill us. Thta's an everyday shit, and they got it in they blood, and if we don't kill them, they kill us, and you can see it now.


now the answer is: Russians kill bandits, and they always happen to be Caucasians, mostly from Chechnya.



And hey, Infinite, your Imam needs to read more newspapers and shit, he's stuck in the 80s. You need to read more yourself, it's  a damn shame you don't know shit about other countries. And oh, doesnt the whole Quran tell Muslims to kill all the non-Muslims? Is that so?
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: infinite59 on October 25, 2002, 02:05:40 AM
^ HOW ABOUT U QUIT THE LONG SPEECH  AND ANSWER THIS QUESTION...

IS RUSSIA PERSECUTING CHECHENS OR NOT?



Let me clear this up for you.

Chechnya was conquered two centuries ago by the czar forces, and that's a fact. In the 90's Chechenian separatists tried to make it a separate country, not even knowing what to do with independence. See, it's a fact that Chechenians, Georgians and some other Caucasian nations had always kidnaped people to live off that, there's a whole lotta bandits among them, they themselves consider it's in their blood. But in the 90s they started to do it actively. When they tried to conquer Daghestan in 1999 I think, Putin sent troops to stop them bandits. Regular Chechen people never wanted war, but their own sons start it. Now, when our troops try to kill them bandits, they say "we're regular people, stop killin us". The next day they throw on their war clothes and go kill us. Thta's an everyday shit, and they got it in they blood, and if we don't kill them, they kill us, and you can see it now.


now the answer is: Russians kill bandits, and they always happen to be Caucasians, mostly from Chechnya.



And hey, Infinite, your Imam needs to read more newspapers and shit, he's stuck in the 80s. You need to read more yourself, it's  a damn shame you don't know shit about other countries. And oh, doesnt the whole Quran tell Muslims to kill all the non-Muslims? Is that so?

No.  The Qu'ran does not say that.  There are ayats in the Qu'ran where the Muslims were at war.  And they referred to the enemy as infidels.  And said to kill the infidels (they were at war with).  The rest of the Qu'ran offers only ayats of peace and good will towards non-Muslims.  Infact if you transgress against a non-Muslim you will have to answer to Allah for that, and if they were innocent then you surely be punished.

Did you notice how the hostage takers let the women and children go free.  That was because Muhammad said never to kill any women and children.  Chechnya deserves to have it's independence.  The reason the government won't give them their independence is because they are sitting on a wealth of oil.

Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: CWalker187 on October 25, 2002, 09:44:58 AM
Quote
[quote author=Infinite Ibrahim Abdul Hamid

Did you notice how the hostage takers let the women and children go free.  That was because Muhammad said never to kill any women and children.  


What are you talking about? They only let the Muslims and a few children go free, and they have already killed a woman, you idiot. God you are brainwashed. They are threatening to start executing more hostages on Saturday.

Incidents like this are evidence of the absolute evil nature of Islam. It is time for western civilization to wake up and take care of the Islamic problem.
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: CWalker187 on October 25, 2002, 09:56:57 AM
Quote
[quote author=Infinite Ibrahim Abdul Hamid  Chechnya deserves to have it's independence.  The reason the government won't give them their independence is because they are sitting on a wealth of oil.



Why should Chechyna get indpendence? Why do Muslims always have to overthrow governments with violent revolution and impose oppressive Islamic law on the population? Why can't they live in peace with other religious groups and not impose their way of living on anyone?

How long will it be before Muslims in America, Britain, Canada, etc want to overthrow the government and create  Muslim states?
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Siberian Wolf on October 25, 2002, 12:13:11 PM
Quote
No.  The Qu'ran does not say that.  There are ayats in the Qu'ran where the Muslims were at war.  And they referred to the enemy as infidels.  And said to kill the infidels (they were at war with).  The rest of the Qu'ran offers only ayats of peace and good will towards non-Muslims.  Infact if you transgress against a non-Muslim you will have to answer to Allah for that, and if they were innocent then you surely be punished.

Did you notice how the hostage takers let the women and children go free.  That was because Muhammad said never to kill any women and children.  Chechnya deserves to have it's independence.  The reason the government won't give them their independence is because they are sitting on a wealth of oil.



Oil aint shit. Them muhfuckers dont even know what 2 do wit it. They kiill people, dats a fact. Im drunk as hell right now, jus got of my palz wedding, but I feel Ima kill a Chech right now, cuz they sprayed it in my blood. Hell no, nobody is out to kill them, but we wish to. Thats life.
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on October 25, 2002, 02:39:48 PM
you have completely ignored the question

Russian imperialism conquered Chechen land in the 18th century but not their will

its their land, give it to em, you took it illegally

and c walker, cmon man, i try to have an intelligent convo wit u, but youre too stupid, "why should they have their land?"

what if i put a gat to ya fuckin head bitch, and said give me the keys to ya house, would u not have a right to that place,? its yours and i took it illegally

this board has some smart people, but alot of stupid fucks who aint on my level man, some of yall are really stupid
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: CWalker187 on October 25, 2002, 03:28:34 PM
you have completely ignored the question

Russian imperialism conquered Chechen land in the 18th century but not their will

its their land, give it to em, you took it illegally



Chechnya did gain de-facto independence after the first war, and what happened? Chechnya became a criminal state, and initiated aggression against Russia. If the Chechens had gone about attaining independence in a civilized way, they would probably have it by now. However, they chose not to.

Besides, much of what is now "Chechnya" is historical Cossack land. The ever-so-innocent Chechens committed genocide and ethnic cleansing against the ethnic Russian population of "Chechnya"-- for the second time in some 70 years. However, the wonderful Western media mysteriously ignores such "little details".

Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on October 26, 2002, 12:05:45 AM
Cossacks in the Caucasus? ok buddy........
Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: Siberian Wolf on October 26, 2002, 11:03:20 AM
CWalker is a smart amn becuz he knows facts, and doesnt use bullshit. All I can say to prince Tech is that he's just too prejudiced about what's happening here, he lives miles away but he thinks he can judge us. Of course Russia would give independence to the swine, if the swine would live like people, not like swine. But they kidnap our people and destroy their own people too. They turned their own land into  a land of terrorism, which they wish to spread all over Caucasus. Why should we free them? A bandit must be killed.

If yo stupid ass talks about 18th century, then tell Americans to get the fuck back to England and give USA back to Indians. AND GET YOUR OWN ASS BACK TO AFGHANISTAN, if you're Afghani. If we should leave Chechnya then you should get back to Afghanistan. I'm sure you'll feel happy there, it's a rich and promising land, peaceful and civilized. :)

Title: Re:Russia: Muslim Extremists Raid Theatre, Take 700 Hostages
Post by: King Tech Quadafi on October 26, 2002, 12:19:21 PM
you're making baseless comparisons

through your vocab, i can see you are like a regular russian

racists and anti- chechen, armenian, georgian etc

this type of belief having existed since the Soviet era

similiar wit the Palestinian issue

only when Israelies/Russians look at Palestinians/Chechens as humans can peace be achieved

lol@ you callin Chechens swine when you mufuckaz eat that shit