West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Detox Iz Not Active on April 04, 2010, 04:34:18 PM
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No intelligent hip hop head would argue this point. In terms of flow and delivery it's an insult to even compare the two. The only thing Jay stans can say is lyrically, but even then Jay is nothing compared to EM. Jay really progressed lyrically AT ALL since his first album, sad.
Also, don't give this "11 number 1 albums" bullshit, because EM has still outsold Jay in terms of albums sales with less albums, and if EM released 3-4 albums an year he'd have 20+ number 1 albums.
here is an example
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/xyzu6y9R_6g
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Not arguing with that!
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Eminem I would say overall is better but he fell off way harder than Jay did lyrically, especially last year
Blueprint 3 > Relapse from a lyrical standpoint, but both albums were pretty ass and the production made both
I ride with Em over Jay any day though 8)
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Eminem I would say overall is better but he fell off way harder than Jay did lyrically, especially last year
Blueprint 3 > Relapse from a lyrical standpoint, but both albums were pretty ass and the production made both
I ride with Em over Jay any day though 8)
come on now, what exactly did prove lyrically on BP3? Just rhyming about how rich is cool he is? I was bored to death after 4 tracks on that nonsense. EM destroyed tracks like Deja Vu on Relapse. Plus his two features on the Drake and that Wayne joint >>> Bp3
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Eminem I would say overall is better but he fell off way harder than Jay did lyrically, especially last year
Blueprint 3 > Relapse from a lyrical standpoint, but both albums were pretty ass and the production made both
I ride with Em over Jay any day though 8)
come on now, what exactly did prove lyrically on BP3? Just rhyming about how rich is cool he is? I was bored to death after 4 tracks on that nonsense. EM destroyed tracks like Deja Vu on Relapse. Plus his two features on the Drake and that Wayne joint >>> Bp3
Relapse had those tracks were Em went off like on "3 AM", "Deja Vu", "Stay Wide Awake", and "Underground", and the rest was simply just Eminem joking around on tracks with a wack accent, minus a few other personal tracks like "Beautiful", basically Relapse was a collection of wasted Dre beats... I do agree on all of those joints you named being better than all of Jay's recent work though but still as an album at least with BP3 I can listen to some tracks for more than just the instrumental
now if Eminem would have rapped more like he did on "Drop The World" and "Forever" on Relapse, that would have been one hell of an album and would easily shit on BP3 and most albums that dropped last year
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this could go either way.
but em fell off worse then hova did. That paki voice he uses and the dumb music videos hes put out are just retarded.
Jay has just slowed down the flow and the lyrics are just your basic themes; cars, money, sucessful career etc.
I think Em still has great songs in him, i was diggin the a couple on the relapse album and the leftovers album and same goes for jay, he still puts out great songs.
But that being said they both have great prodeucers behind them so they will always stay listenable.
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Em always was always will be.
When ever you hear Jay-z talked he said he the best blah blah against BIG, Pac but his tone always humble when Eminem is mentioned. Something i noticed. Even he knows Em is better.
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this could go either way.
but em fell off worse then hova did. That paki voice he uses and the dumb music videos hes put out are just retarded.
Jay has just slowed down the flow and the lyrics are just your basic themes; cars, money, sucessful career etc.
I think Em still has great songs in him, i was diggin the a couple on the relapse album and the leftovers album and same goes for jay, he still puts out great songs.
But that being said they both have great prodeucers behind them so they will always stay listenable.
you say EM fell off worse then Jay, but Jay has been the same since he came in the game, EM has been up and down but still is at a much higher level then Jay
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this could go either way.
but em fell off worse then hova did. That paki voice he uses and the dumb music videos hes put out are just retarded.
Jay has just slowed down the flow and the lyrics are just your basic themes; cars, money, sucessful career etc.
I think Em still has great songs in him, i was diggin the a couple on the relapse album and the leftovers album and same goes for jay, he still puts out great songs.
But that being said they both have great prodeucers behind them so they will always stay listenable.
you say EM fell off worse then Jay, but Jay has been the same since he came in the game, EM has been up and down but still is at a much higher level then Jay
i dont think so. Do you own every jay-z album? i bet you dont.....
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this could go either way.
but em fell off worse then hova did. That paki voice he uses and the dumb music videos hes put out are just retarded.
Jay has just slowed down the flow and the lyrics are just your basic themes; cars, money, sucessful career etc.
I think Em still has great songs in him, i was diggin the a couple on the relapse album and the leftovers album and same goes for jay, he still puts out great songs.
But that being said they both have great prodeucers behind them so they will always stay listenable.
you say EM fell off worse then Jay, but Jay has been the same since he came in the game, EM has been up and down but still is at a much higher level then Jay
i dont think so. Do you own every jay-z album? i bet you dont.....
I own 4 of this albums, and DLed the rest, what the fuck does that prove?
I didn't waste my money on BP3 so opinion on him is invalid?
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nope. i just thought you didnt own any of his albums and had a biased opinion.
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it's non-debateable.
Eminem is 5 times Jay.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/LZq3RBEBvps&hl=en_US&fs=1&
http://www.youtube.com/v/LZq3RBEBvps&hl=en_US&fs=1&
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Jay > Em in my opinion.
Eminem has released too much childish bullshit.
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Eminem I would say overall is better but he fell off way harder than Jay did lyrically, especially last year
Blueprint 3 > Relapse from a lyrical standpoint, but both albums were pretty ass and the production made both
I ride with Em over Jay any day though 8)
I can't agree with that. BP3 was very average lyrically. Imo Jay's bragging raps are more played out than Eminem's horror raps.
Jay kinda fell off after his "retirement", Eminem fell off on Encore.. now he's more focused than he was before his break. Jay's more mainstream he has ever been.
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Although I agree that em is better by a long ways,its hard to take someone criticzing jays lyrical content seriously when their favourite rapper is snoop dogg.
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I do think that Jay-Z has more classic material than Eminem though. And that Reasonable Doubt is better than any Eminem ablum.
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Discography: Jay
Subject matter: Jay
Freestyling: Em
Flow: Em
Versatility: Jay
Voice: Jay
Consistency: Jay
There's no debating that Em can outshine ANYBODY on their own shit, but Jay takes it because of his insane discography and superior subject matter.
If Em had been more consistent, released more quality, and didn't confuse "originality" with childish voices and childish toilet-jokes, he might be up there.
And this thread will be locked soon, (re: rules) so get your replies in while it's still open.
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How is Jay's subject matter any better than Eminem's?
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No intelligent hip hop head would argue this point.
So why create the thread?
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How is Jay's subject matter any better than Eminem's?
Yeah I dont see that either.Eminem has made a lot more deep songs then Jay.Jay isnt even capable of getting deep,hes shallow and it comes out in his music.He raps about the same few subjects over and over ad nauseum.
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How is Jay's subject matter any better than Eminem's?
it used to be
Eminem I would say overall is better but he fell off way harder than Jay did lyrically, especially last year
Blueprint 3 > Relapse from a lyrical standpoint, but both albums were pretty ass and the production made both
I ride with Em over Jay any day though 8)
I can't agree with that. BP3 was very average lyrically. Imo Jay's bragging raps are more played out than Eminem's horror raps.
Jay kinda fell off after his "retirement", Eminem fell off on Encore.. now he's more focused than he was before his break. Jay's more mainstream he has ever been.
I agree with that last statement but as far as Relapse I can't say Em was focused on that at all, dude even admit it later on months after its release
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How is Jay's subject matter any better than Eminem's?
Yeah I dont see that either.Eminem has made a lot more deep songs then Jay.Jay isnt even capable of getting deep,hes shallow and it comes out in his music.He raps about the same few subjects over and over ad nauseum.
I think Jay dropped those deeper songs before his 1st retirement. Not as personal as Eminem but Reasonable Doubt & Blueprint both had deeper songs.
Like BloodMoney2010 said it used be better than Eminem's
@bloodmoney2010 well yeah, but i think he was more focused than he was when he dropped enocre. And now he definitely seems to be focused.. judging by Drop the World & Forever verses
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Jay didnt make deeper songs then stan,cleanin out my closet,lose yourself etc.
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Jay didnt make deeper songs then stan,cleanin out my closet,lose yourself etc.
Jay-Z never made any "deep" tracks but he had a couple songs from his older albums that were on some real shit... "Regrets", "A Week Ago", "Some How, Some Way", etc.
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Jay has some deep work, but it's silly to compare their content because they both come from different backgrounds.
Eminem has his share of silly subject matter songs, but usually those songs are better than Jay's deep ones.
Kill You
Criminal
I Still Don't Give A Fuck
or any song on his earlier shit where he was basically talking about killing other people are lyrically & flow wise better than almost anyone.
people overlook Eminem's "Infinite" album, but that shit is fucking BOMB to me; personal classic.
so for me Em's got 3 classics, one above average album (TES), one average album (Relapse) & one shit album (Encore; with a few good songs).
Jay's got Reasonable Doubt & The Black Album & honestly, i mean, yeah, Eminem's last two CDs were major fall offs, but i personally feel Jay-Z has a lot weaker material than Eminem does.
maybe Jay doesn't rap about ridiculous things & have an accent, but just straight up "blah, weak" songs.
Em has the ridiculous accent & subject matter on Relapse, but at least his incredible flow & top notch production by Dre made up for it to make it an average album in my mind.
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Content wise: Encore > Relapse
Production: Relapse > Encore
Flow: Encore = Relapse
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I'm not saying Jay doesn't have his share of deep, reflective music, I just don't see how he's any better than what Eminem spits about.
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Content wise: Encore > Relapse
Production: Relapse > Encore
Flow: Encore = Relapse
i would say the best songs on Encore are better than the best songs on Relapse; but up & down the tracklistings Relapse is more solid.
i guess we just disagree on the flow because i felt his flow on Relapse was untouchable; "Stay Wide Awake" was just mind blowing in terms of flow lol.
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Jays disccography is over rated.Hes got the big hits no doubt nobody can take that way from him.Theirs something to be said for someone who can have a concert and play an hour and a half of nothing but hit songs.But his albums arent that great I feel his discography really isnt that good.Blue print 2 and 3 were both 6 out of 10s at best.Kingdome come was average though I felt he was taking steps forward lyrical content wise,then took a huge step back with american gangster.Vol 1 2 and 3 were all average.Black album was great as was reasonable doubt.But the rest,meh.
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And this thread will be locked soon, (re: rules) so get your replies in while it's still open.
:laugh:
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Discography: Jay
Subject matter: Jay
Freestyling: Em
Flow: Em
Versatility: Jay
Voice: Jay
Consistency: Jay
There's no debating that Em can outshine ANYBODY on their own shit, but Jay takes it because of his insane discography and superior subject matter.
If Em had been more consistent, released more quality, and didn't confuse "originality" with childish voices and childish toilet-jokes, he might be up there.
I agree. Jay Z has stayed consistent whereas Em has fallen the fuck off. Em really needs to pick up on R2
uggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Discography: Jay
Subject matter: Jay
Freestyling: Em
Flow: Em
Versatility: Jay
Voice: Jay
Consistency: Jay
i actually find myself pretty much agreeing with this. Only thing i would say is that i dont like either onces voice, though jiggaz voice is more versatile where it can fit on more different beats. And also that 'lyrically' was missed from the list. Because while subject matter is linked to being lyrically superior...sometimes just because your mind is in a better place, doesnt mean you're better with a pen and pad...an example...two gangsta rappers...same subject matter dont mean they lyrically equal...one can still be lyrically superior...thats how u seperate the best from the average....for example...your nas' from your wannabe nas'
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Jays disccography is over rated.Hes got the big hits no doubt nobody can take that way from him.Theirs something to be said for someone who can have a concert and play an hour and a half of nothing but hit songs.But his albums arent that great I feel his discography really isnt that good.Blue print 2 and 3 were both 6 out of 10s at best.Kingdome come was average though I felt he was taking steps forward lyrical content wise,then took a huge step back with american gangster.Vol 1 2 and 3 were all average.Black album was great as was reasonable doubt.But the rest,meh.
I bump,
Reasonable Doubt
Blueprint 1
Black Album
Kingdom Come
American Gangster
Blueprint 3
Everything else I don't care for. I totally agree with you about Kingdom Come being a fresh spot for Jay. It was clear he wanted to mature his take on hip-hop as he aged but the public didn't want it so he backed down. Though, while I understand the critique of American Gangster as a fallback, I enjoy the return to the hustler perspective with a more in depth approach. Plus, I love a couple of the Marvin mash ups that came from the album being released. I actually thought Blueprint 3 was another attempt at maturing hip-hop but through critiquing others and co-signing new cats - Drake, Cudi, Mr.Hudson, J. Cole. (I'm not oblivious to the fact most of them are related to his paycheck).
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i would say the best songs on Encore are better than the best songs on Relapse; but up & down the tracklistings Relapse is more solid.
I'd pretty much agree. "Relapse" was a more complete album. "Encore" had some real excellent tracks that I enjoyed but there was at least 6 or so songs where it literally seemed like he was just trying to see if he could make hits out of the most nosensical subject matter possible.
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i would say the best songs on Encore are better than the best songs on Relapse; but up & down the tracklistings Relapse is more solid.
I'd pretty much agree. "Relapse" was a more complete album. "Encore" had some real excellent tracks that I enjoyed but there was at least 6 or so songs where it literally seemed like he was just trying to see if he could make hits out of the most nosensical subject matter possible.
Which ones?
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2 overrated rappers...but if i had to choose jay is better
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Jay flow is same since forever,nothing changed,and subject metter.
Em change hes flow etc. I mean 2 different styyle of music. cant compere,but they got one song together,and we all know whos kill that shit. ;)
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Discography: Jay
Subject matter: Jay
Freestyling: Em
Flow: Em
Versatility: Jay
Voice: Jay
Consistency: Jay
There's no debating that Em can outshine ANYBODY on their own shit, but Jay takes it because of his insane discography and superior subject matter.
If Em had been more consistent, released more quality, and didn't confuse "originality" with childish voices and childish toilet-jokes, he might be up there.
And this thread will be locked soon, (re: rules) so get your replies in while it's still open.
but you're a Jay-Z groupie :wavey:
Content wise: Encore > Relapse
Production: Relapse > Encore
Flow: Encore = Relapse
more like Relapse> Encore
on Encore he sounds a bit tired
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cant argue with that
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Discography: Jay
Subject matter: Jay
Freestyling: Em
Flow: Em
Versatility: Jay
Voice: Jay
Consistency: Jay
There's no debating that Em can outshine ANYBODY on their own shit, but Jay takes it because of his insane discography and superior subject matter.
If Em had been more consistent, released more quality, and didn't confuse "originality" with childish voices and childish toilet-jokes, he might be up there.
And this thread will be locked soon, (re: rules) so get your replies in while it's still open.
co-sign
Does anyone still listen to Eminem albums in 2010? No replay value at all.
Jay overall > Eminem
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2 overrated rappers
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em was good for a couple of albums until he ran out of material and started making silly noises/accents, obsessing over celebrity culture. jay has stayed 'reasonable' for a much longer period of time...