West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Jome on April 16, 2010, 07:13:09 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/v/iHbwn7gmshg&h
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Rakim just lost all of his credibility lol.
nothing against Jay, i'm a fan of most of his music; but Rakim was basically saying all the other shit he did.
he was talking more success than actual rapping.
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Rakim just lost all of his credibility lol.
nothing against Jay, i'm a fan of most of his music; but Rakim was basically saying all the other shit he did.
he was talking more success than actual rapping.
well you gotta keep in mind that to most mainstream rappers, "greatest" means something different then it does to us fans. This is a business to them, a way to make money. Most of these guys make their music with money in mind. Jay-Z has gone pop and been successful at it. Nas has tried and essentially failed at it.
Fans get shocked when rappers we like such as Em and Royce give props to rappers we dislike like Wayne. But to these guys, being hot is essentially the same as being great. Believe you me, Slaughterhouse would not hesitate to make pop records if it meant they would blow up and make millions.
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Jay has done it with a certain class too which is hard to find.
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HAHAHAHA I TOLD YOU MUTHUAFUCKAS!!!!!
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FUCK Rakim, he thinks dick sucking Jay will get him some pub
pathetic
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he thinks dick sucking Jay will get him some pub
pathetic
True true....a shame tho.
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it's his opinion my equals
but in all honesty this is the equivalent of micheal jordon (called by most the greatest to ever play the game) selecting kwame brown as the number one picc over paul gasol, just because one is great doesn't mean you have to take there word on judging other talent yell
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KRS-One said Lil Wayne is the greatest of all time. At least Rakim's selection is arguable.
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FUCK Rakim, he thinks dick sucking Jay will get him some pub
pathetic
agreed!
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KRS-One said Lil Wayne is the greatest of all time. At least Rakim's selection is arguable.
was he being serious? jesus christ
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Yeah, that KRS thing makes me wonder but seriously if these guys who are considered pioneers and some of the best at are saying people like Jay are the best, you have to at least lend it some credibility because these guys actually understand the level of work that goes into performing and make hit records. Most of us are just basing it off who makes music that best suits our taste.
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Yeah, that KRS thing makes me wonder but seriously if these guys who are considered pioneers and some of the best at are saying people like Jay are the best, you have to at least lend it some credibility because these guys actually understand the level of work that goes into performing and make hit records. Most of us are just basing it off who makes music that best suits our taste.
this...
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Yeah, that KRS thing makes me wonder but seriously if these guys who are considered pioneers and some of the best at are saying people like Jay are the best, you have to at least lend it some credibility because these guys actually understand the level of work that goes into performing and make hit records. Most of us are just basing it off who makes music that best suits our taste.
not really, cause these dudes look at the hip hop game like a business, and we look at it based on quality of the music.
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I wonder if they ask the same question on heaven's gates when a dead rapper arrives to seek for entrance (egoistic answer sends you to hell).
Whatever would have his answer been, it would have been a wrong one in the eyes of internet hip-hop purists. I think Rakim should have considered alternative answer options like the religious answer "Allah/Jesus is the greatest MC." or the diplomatic sportsman answer "Hip-Hop is a team game, there's no MC above everyone else." etc.
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>:( so dissapointing
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not really, cause these dudes look at the hip hop game like a business, and we look at it based on quality of the music.
I think they have a better understanding though. Someone who has never performed live or never sat down and recorded an album or dealt with the industry politics, you're not always gonna have a clear idea of what goes into it. Quality of music is sort of a broad category to me because a average rapper can sit in the booth and make amazing records if he is working with a producer that knows how to hide his weak spots.
But it's interesting on the one hand how someone's opinion can sort of invalidate certain people's own feelings on him. I mean, if you think Rakim or KRS-One is one of the greatest MC's ever, and the person they think is the greatest MC is someone you don't like, do they suddenly not know what a "great MC" is? I mean, are we so biased in views or whatever that we can call someone one of the best at something and turn around and act like their opinion holds no weight when they discuss that same subject?
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i'd rather everyone just continue to say Pac, Big, Big L or Big Pun
the "dead rapper is the best" line is like an athlete thanking god for a big win
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not really, cause these dudes look at the hip hop game like a business, and we look at it based on quality of the music.
I think they have a better understanding though. Someone who has never performed live or never sat down and recorded an album or dealt with the industry politics, you're not always gonna have a clear idea of what goes into it. Quality of music is sort of a broad category to me because a average rapper can sit in the booth and make amazing records if he is working with a producer that knows how to hide his weak spots.
but there's a BIG difference between a successful record and an amazing record. Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em sold over 10 millions albums but its a shitty album. illmatic sold shit but many people think its one of the greatest albums ever made. I don't think most rappers distinguish between the two, cause to them an album that sells well is a bigger message than an album that people "say" is good but don't buy. The Carter III sold a millie in a week and all these rappers were coming out and calling it a classic. Now that all the hype has died down most people think its overrated and not even lil wayne's best record. I don't trust rappers opinions because its a business to them. Whereas a fan can sit back and judge music based on its quality, not on how many units it moved.
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but there's a BIG difference between a successful record and an amazing record. Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em sold over 10 millions albums but its a shitty album. illmatic sold shit but many people think its one of the greatest albums ever made. I don't think most rappers distinguish between the two, cause to them an album that sells well is a bigger message than an album that people "say" is good but don't buy. The Carter III sold a millie in a week and all these rappers were coming out and calling it a classic. Now that all the hype has died down most people think its overrated and not even lil wayne's best record. I don't trust rappers opinions because its a business to them. Whereas a fan can sit back and judge music based on its quality, not on how many units it moved.
But there's success on many levels. There's people who have the hottest song in the country for half a year and then people outgrow and move on and there's artists who continually make #1 records. I can't comment on Wayne because really I just don't like most of his records. His flow doesn't appeal to me. I don't automatically trust every rapper because everyone certainly has their reasons behind it but I also feel a lot of times fans throw their own beliefs into things when it comes to rapper's decisions. Like if anyone works with or even likes Lil Wayne, it's because they are trying to appeal to the pop crowd. I don't trust that to always be the case.
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oh fuck off not this arguement again. jay has been relevant longer than any other rapper and you cant really argue that, its just fact. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL OPINION ON WHO YOU THINK THE GREATEST IS SO WHY ARGUE.
one thing u cant deny is that jay has done it well without completely selling out, hes matured his sound, stayed current, been successfull etc. im no longer a fan of his but i cant deny what hes done. so unless you have some other method of determining who the best rapper is that doesnt involve your personal likes/dislikes then shuuuuut uuuuup.
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not really, cause these dudes look at the hip hop game like a business, and we look at it based on quality of the music.
I think they have a better understanding though. Someone who has never performed live or never sat down and recorded an album or dealt with the industry politics, you're not always gonna have a clear idea of what goes into it. Quality of music is sort of a broad category to me because a average rapper can sit in the booth and make amazing records if he is working with a producer that knows how to hide his weak spots.
But it's interesting on the one hand how someone's opinion can sort of invalidate certain people's own feelings on him. I mean, if you think Rakim or KRS-One is one of the greatest MC's ever, and the person they think is the greatest MC is someone you don't like, do they suddenly not know what a "great MC" is? I mean, are we so biased in views or whatever that we can call someone one of the best at something and turn around and act like their opinion holds no weight when they discuss that same subject?
i disagree,cause you can talk to others who have dealt with more label politrics then them,like an artist who never got famous for not kissing ass, so throw that out the window, just because you are a dope mc means you are a good judge of talent,rakim and krsone both could be using this shit as a way to get a feature on one of these guys future plat albums.
also when 50 was hot rakim said he was the best, same with krsone so how can you really take them serious,they are great mc's but again JORDAN TOOK KWAME BROWN FIRST! YELL
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oh fuck off not this arguement again. jay has been relevant longer than any other rapper and you cant really argue that, its just fact. IT ALL COMES DOWN TO PERSONAL OPINION ON WHO YOU THINK THE GREATEST IS SO WHY ARGUE.
one thing u cant deny is that jay has done it well without completely selling out, hes matured his sound, stayed current, been successfull etc. im no longer a fan of his but i cant deny what hes done. so unless you have some other method of determining who the best rapper is that doesnt involve your personal likes/dislikes then shuuuuut uuuuup.
Exactly. I'd like to see what peoples other choices are. Not to say Jay is my pick or is the most deserving but he's definitely a reasonable candidate.
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In what way has jay matured his sound.I thought he was going to after kingdome come but he completely regressed after that.Jay always was and always will be a pop act,nothing more nothing less.So you say he hasnt completely sold out,but hes always been a sell out since reasonable doubt.His original plan was to include tons of auto tune on blue print 3 and later changed his mind and changed it into a marketing gimmick with d.o.a.The guys guest appearances are the clear indicator of what kind of an artist he is,do you seem him featured on underground albums or people with lyrical talent..No,you seem him making songs with lil wayne and rick ross because its whats hot at the same time.As soon as an aritst becomes irrelvant in the mainstream he stops working with them.He has ZERO artistic intergrity,just a bunch of pop songs and a work with whoever is selling the most mentality.Jay Z is probably the most succesfull pop artist to come out of hip hop but other then that theirs nothing of value.
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dude may be a pop act, but he's damn good at it. Reasonable Doubt, Black Album, Blueprint....those are just plain great albums.
I bet you most rappers would do the same thing if they could. Didn't Slaughterhouse say they wanted to record with wayne? How does Jay-Z have less artistic integrity than Nas? The only reason Nas's discography is less pop than Jay-Zs is because he tried and failed at it.
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I bet you not many rappers even think about artistic integrity. We as fans judge rappers music hard. But rappers judge themselves based on what they have accomplished. I'm not saying Nas is bumping Wayne and Rick Ross, but he has no problem giving those guys props for their success. Or working with them on a collab. That's true for most mainstream rappers. Underground artists get an unfair pass for not "selling out", when in reality they would probably be making songs with pop rappers if they could.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
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I bet you not many rappers even think about artistic integrity. We as fans judge rappers music hard. But rappers judge themselves based on what they have accomplished. I'm not saying Nas is bumping Wayne and Rick Ross, but he has no problem giving those guys props for their success. Or working with them on a collab. That's true for most mainstream rappers. Underground artists get an unfair pass for not "selling out", when in reality they would probably be making songs with pop rappers if they could.
That might be true for some rappers.But do you honestly think people like immortal technique give a shit about mainstream sales or making pop singles.
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I have to seriously question someones taste who believes Jay Z is the greatest rapper of all time.People are confusing success and sales with being a great artist.
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But you can't be considered a G.O.A.T. if you haven't reached that worldwide recognition, connected with people all over the globe, made an impact in your profession. That's like saying some dude that's playing basketball on the street is more g.o.a.t. worthy than Jordan. Until you cope with that pressure of million people watching you and another 1000 being dependent on your every move....you ain't shit but an underground favorite.
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I have to seriously question someones taste who believes Jay Z is the greatest rapper of all time.People are confusing success and sales with being a great artist.
But not everyone's taste is directly connected to who they believe is the greatest. I'd put Jay up there on my list as one of the best but he definitely ain't one of my favorites.
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Im not downplaying Jay Zs accomplishments,Ive been to Jay Z concerts and own a fair number of his albums.He has his place in hip hop,but he is not the greatest,top ten definitely but not even top five.Like I said Jay Z IS the madonna of hip hop.
I agree that an artist needs to have success to be considered one of the best but being successfull does not mean you ARE one of the best.
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jay-z is mainstream but to call him pop shows a lack of any musical knowledge. pop music is completely different entity. just because the word pop has negative connotations people use it incorrectly on mainstream acts they dislike.
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ummm go look up the definitions of pop music.I never once said I disliked Jay z so take that lame arguement elsewhere.
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yeh ill get right on that. i forgot that once an artist goes mainstream they are no longer part of their genre
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Go listen to reasonable doubt,then go listen to blueprint 3 and tell me those are in the same genre ::)
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yeh they are both hip-hop, just so happens one is mainstream and not very good. beats and rhymes? oh thats not hip hop lollll. oh yeah and u mentioned jay and madonnas "respective genres". what was madonnas genre before she went pop?
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Good comparison with Madonna. They're both a couple of gluttons for attention and success that integrity and creativity take a back seat for most of their catalogs, and because of the success the mainstream media feels the need to praise the work. It's not nothing to stay in the spotlight after so many years even if you're releasing sub par shit.
Pauley Shore had a handful of very bad but successful films in the early 90s. If he had figured out a way to succeed making the same bad films into the 2000s then you'd have to give him some credit.
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yeh they are both hip-hop, just so happens one is mainstream and not very good. beats and rhymes? oh thats not hip hop lollll. oh yeah and u mentioned jay and madonnas "respective genres". what was madonnas genre before she went pop?
Madonna started off making dance music that was very new wave and post-disco inspired. Listen to "Everybody" and then listen to "Material Girl".
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Dont follow him , but figure how he got to where he's at and get that paper " real talk
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I bet you not many rappers even think about artistic integrity. We as fans judge rappers music hard. But rappers judge themselves based on what they have accomplished. I'm not saying Nas is bumping Wayne and Rick Ross, but he has no problem giving those guys props for their success. Or working with them on a collab. That's true for most mainstream rappers. Underground artists get an unfair pass for not "selling out", when in reality they would probably be making songs with pop rappers if they could.
That might be true for some rappers.But do you honestly think people like immortal technique give a shit about mainstream sales or making pop singles.
Immortal Technique is definitely one of the ones who doesn't give a shit about going mainstream. But like I said...most. Like Slaughterhouse, for example.
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Looks like rakim wants to become a freemason.............be a part of the winning team.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
i have to disagree with you on most of this, madonna took chances and risked career suicide on several occasions, she is a self made artist, jay just went off of other's "blueprint" to get to the point he's at, if biggs didn't tell him to switch that style up jay probably would still be a no where fast rap'n rapper, as far as a haging a great business mind, making big hits and still being able to attract a young audience you are correct, but madonna's risk especially being a woman and doing the shit that was considered taboo at the time puts her outta his league, i respect that bitch madge for defying the system i just respect hov for the chipper jones he's earned yell
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
Well the question posed is who is the greatest emcee of all time,not who can make the most pop songs in rap.I think we can both agree that Jay z is not the greatest emcee of all time.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
You name me one of the 'greats" in rock that is comparable to Jay Z and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
You name me one of the 'greats" in rock that is comparable to Jay Z and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
LOL
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
Well the question posed is who is the greatest emcee of all time,not who can make the most pop songs in rap.I think we can both agree that Jay z is not the greatest emcee of all time.
why isn't he a contender? He's got the popularity, he's got the influence. He's got the longevity. He's got the classic material. And he's managed to achieve legend status without being murdered.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
You name me one of the 'greats" in rock that is comparable to Jay Z and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
Rock singers and rappers aren't really comparable. For one, rock "greats" are far more legendary than any rapper is. But I'll try. People call Elvis Presley the king of rock n roll. To me he's overrated as fuck. He's still one of the greats though. Come to think of it, he does have something in common with Jay-Z. Elvis Presley stole his style from black musicians and ran with it. Jay-Z steals ideas and runs with it ;D
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"you little niggas can touch me baby, OK maybe Jay-Z or maybe not" - Royce
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i think the poster who mentioned Krs-One saying Lil' Wayne was the best of all time shows how little meaning it all holds.
people will forever suck on the money.
the way Rakim worded it was fair enough, but the question should have been "whose been the most successful?".
rap was created for people to get paid & get up out of the hood, i would say in terms of doing that Jay-Z has set the standard; went from you're local homeboy to the biggest name in rap.
but the only thing that sets him apart from Eminem is he's been around longer & has had more success with investments & stuff.
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
You name me one of the 'greats" in rock that is comparable to Jay Z and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
Rock singers and rappers aren't really comparable. For one, rock "greats" are far more legendary than any rapper is. But I'll try. People call Elvis Presley the king of rock n roll. To me he's overrated as fuck. He's still one of the greats though. Come to think of it, he does have something in common with Jay-Z. Elvis Presley stole his style from black musicians and ran with it. Jay-Z steals ideas and runs with it ;D
How do you steal a style? He grew up in Memphis right off of Beale street. I love how all the black artists of the time that had talent loved Elvis, but all these modern talentless buffoons call him a theif.
Elvis didn't "steal" anymore from Fats Domino than he did from Hank Williams. But he could sing with the very best of them, and re-arrange and produce songs with the very best of them. Elvis could sing and perform at the same level as Jackie Wilson and James Brown. Elvis became a local star based completely on raw talent. Jay Z became a star on honing a skill based around a lack of musical talent. And that's not a knock on Jay. I'm just saying if Jay could sing like Marvin Gaye and dance like James Brown from his teen years onward he never would have been a rapper. He'd have been a top RnB singer.
Jay Z is more comparable to Jimmy Paige or John Lennon than Elvis.
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what ??? yell
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
You name me one of the 'greats" in rock that is comparable to Jay Z and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
Rock singers and rappers aren't really comparable. For one, rock "greats" are far more legendary than any rapper is. But I'll try. People call Elvis Presley the king of rock n roll. To me he's overrated as fuck. He's still one of the greats though. Come to think of it, he does have something in common with Jay-Z. Elvis Presley stole his style from black musicians and ran with it. Jay-Z steals ideas and runs with it ;D
How do you steal a style? He grew up in Memphis right off of Beale street. I love how all the black artists of the time that had talent loved Elvis, but all these modern talentless buffoons call him a theif.
Elvis didn't "steal" anymore from Fats Domino than he did from Hank Williams. But he could sing with the very best of them, and re-arrange and produce songs with the very best of them. Elvis could sing and perform at the same level as Jackie Wilson and James Brown. Elvis became a local star based completely on raw talent. Jay Z became a star on honing a skill based around a lack of musical talent. And that's not a knock on Jay. I'm just saying if Jay could sing like Marvin Gaye and dance like James Brown from his teen years onward he never would have been a rapper. He'd have been a top RnB singer.
Jay Z is more comparable to Jimmy Paige or John Lennon than Elvis.
Didn't I say rappers and singers aren't comparable? I was speaking towards their accomplishments, not skill versus talent, which is a completely different topic. Honestly I'm not really a big fan of Elvis Presley. If you think he's one of the greatest singers, that's on you. But you should at least get my point. Elvis Presley is one of the greats because of his legacy, not because of his "raw talent." There's a lot of talented singers who never get notice. Just like there's a lot of skilled rappers who could rap circles around Jay-Z. But they aren't "great." How could they be the greatest of all time with zero recognition?
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Jay Z is the greatest in the same way that Lil wayne is the best rapper alive.
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I don't give a fuck what Rakim says, Jay is still ass.
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the bests should go to cube,2pac,krs1
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y'all sensitive
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I didnt say he wasnt good at it.The guy has the hits no doubt.The artist that is paralell to a jay z is a madonna.They both have had huge success,lasted a long time shown great business sense,have a knack for big singles.Jay Z is literally the madonna of hip hop.yes theyve both had huge success and are great at what they do,but niether are anywhere close to the greatest in their respective genres.
Now here's where we have different definitions for greatest. To me, greatest doesn't mean the best. When we think of other genres like rock. the "greats" are the ones who were immensely successful and had an impact on the genre, not the ones who can play the guitar the best. Madonna is considered one of the greatest pop singers of all time because of her influence and her hits. I think of hip hop the same way.
There are many rappers who can outrap Jay-Z. Doesn't mean he's not one of the greatest. He's not on my top 10 list. But to the world he's a legend. That's what makes him great. An underground rapper can't be one of the greatest since they haven't influenced anything.
You name me one of the 'greats" in rock that is comparable to Jay Z and I'll tell you why you're wrong.
Rock singers and rappers aren't really comparable. For one, rock "greats" are far more legendary than any rapper is. But I'll try. People call Elvis Presley the king of rock n roll. To me he's overrated as fuck. He's still one of the greats though. Come to think of it, he does have something in common with Jay-Z. Elvis Presley stole his style from black musicians and ran with it. Jay-Z steals ideas and runs with it ;D
How do you steal a style? He grew up in Memphis right off of Beale street. I love how all the black artists of the time that had talent loved Elvis, but all these modern talentless buffoons call him a theif.
Elvis didn't "steal" anymore from Fats Domino than he did from Hank Williams. But he could sing with the very best of them, and re-arrange and produce songs with the very best of them. Elvis could sing and perform at the same level as Jackie Wilson and James Brown. Elvis became a local star based completely on raw talent. Jay Z became a star on honing a skill based around a lack of musical talent. And that's not a knock on Jay. I'm just saying if Jay could sing like Marvin Gaye and dance like James Brown from his teen years onward he never would have been a rapper. He'd have been a top RnB singer.
Jay Z is more comparable to Jimmy Paige or John Lennon than Elvis.
Didn't I say rappers and singers aren't comparable? I was speaking towards their accomplishments, not skill versus talent, which is a completely different topic. Honestly I'm not really a big fan of Elvis Presley. If you think he's one of the greatest singers, that's on you. But you should at least get my point. Elvis Presley is one of the greats because of his legacy, not because of his "raw talent." There's a lot of talented singers who never get notice. Just like there's a lot of skilled rappers who could rap circles around Jay-Z. But they aren't "great." How could they be the greatest of all time with zero recognition?
Yeah but you're probably not a fan of anything that came out of Beale Street in the 50s. You cannot think Elvis can't sing and Jackie Wilson can sing. Elvis was one of the greats before his legacy. It's all in the Sun Sessions. The way he fused RnB with Hillbilly was extremely innovative, but it was his raw talent that gave him the chance to become influential.
For the style of music he was singing Elvis was at the top of the game. When I say that, that's not "on me". That's on the general consensus of people who like that music. I hate personally hate MJ's voice but I'll agree he was one of the best singers of his style of music. There's subjective and there's objective.
The point is if Elvis had the natural talent of Jay Z he would have amounted to nothing.
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That's not relevant to this discussion. What does natural talent have to do with the greatest in rap? Rapping isn't a natural talent, its an acquired skill. Like guitar playing.
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Fuck all'yall. Rakim>your favorite rapper.
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That's not relevant to this discussion. What does natural talent have to do with the greatest in rap? Rapping isn't a natural talent, its an acquired skill. Like guitar playing.
I highly disagree.People like tech n9ne,bone thugs twista etc that is natural talent,not many people can do that.And even when were not talking vocally,certain people are talented with writtens,multis double entendres,wit etc.Thats natural talent not something someone can practice and achieve easily its just part of who they are.
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Fuck all'yall. Rakim>your favorite rapper.
including Jay-Z
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That's not relevant to this discussion. What does natural talent have to do with the greatest in rap? Rapping isn't a natural talent, its an acquired skill. Like guitar playing.
And that's why I said it's better to equate Jay Z with someone like John Lennon, or even Bob Dylan, rather than Elvis. They were artists that had to hone a skill to become something because their natural talent wasn't there.
P.S. there's plenty of natural talent and rhythm that go with playing guitar. Both Lil Wayne and Jimi Hendrix play guitar. Lil Wayne would have to practice for 100 years to get as good as Jimi was when Jimi was 12 years old.
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That's not relevant to this discussion. What does natural talent have to do with the greatest in rap? Rapping isn't a natural talent, its an acquired skill. Like guitar playing.
I highly disagree.People like tech n9ne,bone thugs twista etc that is natural talent,not many people can do that.And even when were not talking vocally,certain people are talented with writtens,multis double entendres,wit etc.Thats natural talent not something someone can practice and achieve easily its just part of who they are.
I'm not trying to say there is no raw talent in rapping. Of course there is. Just that in a battle between raw talent and honed skill rapping falls on the latter. Singing falls on the former. Elvis became famous because of his natural abilities. Jay Z became famous because of dedication to success. If Jay Z worked as hard as Elvis did he'd be nowhere right now, and if Elvis worked as hard as Jay Z to be a star he'd still be alive today performing for money than anyone else. Because even at 75 Elvis would have been able to headline Vegas untill death and tour the world for old fogies to pay through the nose.
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Lol @ this thread.
Duke started talking by mentioning clothing and business ventures, as well as music. Ra is adding success into the equation here.
If you doubt who Rakim really thinks are the best emcees in terms of skill, go check his interviews on youtube... Y'all buggin. His list is just like ours.
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where is this audio?
1.he said take himself outta the equation...so rakim still considers himself the best...lol
2.and he was speakin on more of the terms of everythin clothes etc...
KRS-One said Lil Wayne is the greatest of all time. At least Rakim's selection is arguable.