West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Doggystylin on January 10, 2003, 08:08:28 PM
-
for the last week, just about every dream ive had has been pretty fucked up and has been about murder, and i mean, its not like ive even been listenin to bone that much with that mo murda shit they keep sayin, i havent even listened to that shit,
but like the other night, it was a dream of this lil girl gettin raped and killed in my town and then thrown in a ditch and i find her body, fuckin sick shit ive been seein, then last night, one about this serial killer murderin people, another one of this old guy livin in my neighborhood goin nuts and killin people in his house for the fuck of it.....just disturbing shit like this, i swear its startin to fuck with me, shit isnt cool yall, wtf is goin on.
-
have you lost control on a situation ? or did somethin failed in your life?
-
Hmm, you keep seeing horrible things, and stumbling upon horrible things, but keep in mind, the horrible things aren't done TO you, and you're not the one doing them. So, you're seeing bad things. I would say that something in your life, something you SEE, not something you do, or someone does to you, is disturbing you. Like maybe your brother killed a dog, you saw it, then you have dreams about murderers. It doesn't have to be murder, either, but I'd say it's violent. You're SEEING something violent happen, and you're dreaming about it at night, becuase it's upsetting you. I'm sure this isn't the case, but for instance a guy like you might see his dad yell at his mom; that night he dreams about people murdering other people.
It's nothing wrong with you, it's just you dealing with something you see happening. The stumbling on the little girl's body might suggest that it's something you feel only you notice, or that only you know about, or something like that.
-
Hmm, you keep seeing horrible things, and stumbling upon horrible things, but keep in mind, the horrible things aren't done TO you, and you're not the one doing them. So, you're seeing bad things. I would say that something in your life, something you SEE, not something you do, or someone does to you, is disturbing you. Like maybe your brother killed a dog, you saw it, then you have dreams about murderers. It doesn't have to be murder, either, but I'd say it's violent. You're SEEING something violent happen, and you're dreaming about it at night, becuase it's upsetting you. I'm sure this isn't the case, but for instance a guy like you might see his dad yell at his mom; that night he dreams about people murdering other people.
It's nothing wrong with you, it's just you dealing with something you see happening. The stumbling on the little girl's body might suggest that it's something you feel only you notice, or that only you know about, or something like that.
Yeah plus murder/death etc, usualy represents an ending of a phase. Like if you see a child dying, it could represent how your matureing, etc...hit me up on aim, we aint talked for a while man, peace
-{bLaDe}
-
ending of a phase...hmm that sounds interesting, can be bad and can be real good,i hope its the good thing i think
-
Western culture has subjected you to violence without you even living a violent lifestyle. It's became a part of your everyday thoughts. Without a program like Islam to get you away from a conventional American lifestyle it may become common place for you.
Others have offered slogans like- "it's a phase" or "cheer up", "get a girlfriend", "chill out", "laugh it off." We are not talking about slogans here. Islam is not a slogan, Islam is a program that has been provided for you by Allah through the holy prophet Muhammad (salla alayhi wa salaam). And whenever you decide to use that program with the whole of your being, only then can you get away from the moral and physical decay that you may be subjected to in conventional American culture.
-
^ yeah thats right infinite... NOT... man how low is it to tell a man he's fucked unless he chooses islam !?
-
^ yeah thats right infinite... NOT... man how low is it to tell a man he's fucked unless he chooses islam !?
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
-
^ yeah thats right infinite... NOT... man how low is it to tell a man he's fucked unless he chooses islam !?
Overseer, you live in Western culture which is secular. Church and state may have been seperated in your culture but the Muslim has not seperated Allah from anything in his own life. You are a product of the West, and therefore you seek to find answers that have nothing to do with Allah. You seek to become seperate from your ultimate reality.
-
All things come from allah? Didn't we aready cover this topic Infinite? You regressed on it before, now you are going back to it. You'll say damn near anything to win an arguement. Doesn't allah teach you ethics morals?
But like I said before, if all things from come from Allah all evil comes from Allah. Allah controls all, allah controls evil. Allah controls Doggy's sick dreams. It's Allah's fault and he isn't gonna stop fucking with your head until you get down on your knees and beg like infinite is telling you to.
Other things that come from Allah:
1. Osama Bin Laden
2. George Bush
3. Cats
4. Dogs
5. Child Molesters
6. Ice Cream
7. Saddam Hussein
8. Penises
9. Western Culture
10. Homelessness
11. Porn Movies
12. Boogers
13. Everything Evil
14. Everything Good
15. Everything Not Yet Mentioned
So you see, since everything comes from Allah you may be evil and never know it. In fact life is an uncertain mess. We all came from Allah but we all aren't perfect. Some of us are good/evil, smart/stupid, crazy/sane. But we can never know, only Allah knows. Doubt everything, because it all came from Allah. If your believe in Jesus don't be so sure that's correct because your belief came from Allah. You can't really be sure of anything really. Do I really want to type this or is Allah making me type this? Obviously its Allah. Allah has no penis. Shit now he is being a big Jerk. Allah fucks his mother. Damn he did it again. Fuck Fuck Fuck Bitch Fuck.
All things come from Allah, indeed this message I'm giving you now is coming from Allah. Allah says go kill yourself infinite.
-
Western culture has subjected you to violence without you even living a violent lifestyle. It's became a part of your everyday thoughts. Without a program like Islam to get you away from a conventional American lifestyle it may become common place for you.
Others have offered slogans like- "it's a phase" or "cheer up", "get a girlfriend", "chill out", "laugh it off." We are not talking about slogans here. Islam is not a slogan, Islam is a program that has been provided for you by Allah through the holy prophet Muhammad (salla alayhi wa salaam). And whenever you decide to use that program with the whole of your being, only then can you get away from the moral and physical decay that you may be subjected to in conventional American culture.
Actually, many cultures have voilence LoL, if he wasnt brought up in the west, he would still know what voilence is. Secondly, dreams are very rarely to be taken literal, they are almost always metaphorical. If you see yourself killing sumone, doesnt mean your really gonna kill him. If you vision ureself drowning, does not mean ure gonna drown. And much of dreams is just meaningless crap. If Siavash had a good nights sleep, on a good bed, and then had the dream, it could mean many things.
It is a dream, I have seen extreamly religious people have nightmares, so following a religion is not going to stop you from having night mares or graphic dreams.
I agree the world is messed in many ways, voilence, drugs etc goes around everywhere. You cant shield anybody from it. Heck look at the 9/11 plane hi jackers, they were muslim. I am not dissing Islam, or you in any way. By the way, Overseer isnt exactly religious, hes more of an athiest, or sumting. Im just tryin to help doggy, negative dreams are not usualy predictions of a negative future, or anything like it, peace
-{bLaDe}
-
Infinite.....Dawg.....Sometimes U take it a bit too far.....
-
Infinite.....Dawg.....Sometimes U take it a bit too far.....
Well, hopefully, inshallah I will take my part in the Muslim world "too far" rather than taking my part with some small time gangmembers "too far." If it were a post about my street gang you would of said "cool".
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
-
^^^I can agree with that. My freshman year I took a class on western religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity). Funny thing was that was the first thing to really make me reconsider my religious beliefs. But I walked away from that class with a lot of respect for Islam.
Respect that Infinite pretty much killed. But, honestly if infinite is your typical muslim then its probably not bad to be turned off from Islam. I don't think I'd want one infinite-like friend let alone a whole gang of them. That maybe a personal attack but its also the truth.
Although, as infinite mentioned all things come from Allah so maybe its Allah's plan for me not to like Infinite. Who knows?
-
Man, just coz u believe allah is the only dude that can save us does mean its true.
Personnally, I prefer the idea that dealing with shit yourself is more reliable than kneeling and praying that some devine intrevention will help u.
+the middle east is as violent as the west+dont you listen to rap???
-
i liken infinite's pro-islamic rants as being like those of a born again christian. just as precocious and ignorant. u all agree?
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
i say the same thing to Ant
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
I have no strong mental? WRONG! All you base are belong to us!
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
I have no strong mental? WRONG! All you base are belong to us!
what the fuck are you talking about?? .. did you come to the right thread
-
Well, hopefully, inshallah I will take my part in the Muslim world "too far" rather than taking my part with some small time gangmembers "too far." If it were a post about my street gang you would of said "cool".
lol, wachu talkin bout? It's never cool takin it too far......And also U do contradict yurself alot......Reminds me of Nas......
lol @ middle east is just as violent as tha west......west aint got nuttin on middle east.....lmao
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
I have no strong mental? WRONG! All you base are belong to us!
what the fuck are you talking about?? .. did you come to the right thread
Thanks for the negative Karma!
Somebody set up us the bomb!
-
lmao @ all your base ;D
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
I have no strong mental? WRONG! All you base are belong to us!
what the fuck are you talking about?? .. did you come to the right thread
Thanks for the negative Karma!
Somebody set up us the bomb!
i dont give a fuck about those karma shit... i've never given bad karma to anybody.. not even cwalker
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
i say the same thing to Ant
That's probably true its not fair for me to judge Islam for Infinite's actions. Or is it? I don't judge infinite's actions at face value. Infinite's character negatively reflects on Islam for reasons other than you may initially think.
I look at it like this. Infinite is basically a voice recorder that is very good at repeating what he hears. That's not to hard for anyone to realize. Infinite's words negatively reflect on Islam because they aren't his own thought up idea but something handed down to him by other Muslims. That is what bothers me. Furthermore, Infinite has not affiliated himself with some weird sect of Islam so his actions I interpret as coming from general Islamic teachings. For example, a lot of christians are very extremist even similiar to Infinite (as Overseer mentioned) however those "odd" christians aren't generally affiliated with the aggregate christian population. They belong to their own sect, and most christians have no problem criticizing these people.
Infinite on the other hand is taught supposedly by genuine Muslims that are respected in the Islamic community. Furthermore, other muslims on this board frequently support Infinite's words. At times his words aren't supported outwardly, but it is a rare case for him to be disagreed with.
So I'm not judging Islam on Infinite's actions alone. I'm judging Islam on the basis that Islam permits and teaches Infinite to believe what he believes and behave how he behaves. I'm judging Islam on the basis that no other muslims seems to disagree with statements made by Infinite. I'm judging Islam on my assumption that Infinite can not think and can only repeat so whatever he repeats he learns from Islamic teachings.
-
All things come from Allah. He is our reality. So for me to deny Allah as being the center and truth of all things it would be as if I denied myself as a human being. So Islam is the solution. The deen, the way of life is complete, and far-reaching. So why would I offer a solution other than Islam?
He's not my reality. Islam is not my solution. Just because it's cool for you dosen't make it cool for everybody else. You should be glad you found something you are so into, but when you type shit like this, it scares of others away from your religion. Seriously, I was checking out all major religions when I came to this board. You have single handedly turned me away from Islam. I don't have anything aginst it, but you've really turned me off of it.
if infinite is the ony reason why you're now against islam, i gotta say that you have no strong mental...
cwalker is a bitch fir real... but he's not gonna make me hate christians or be against Christanity as a religion
I have no strong mental? WRONG! All you base are belong to us!
.
LMFAO
-{bLaDe}
-
I thought it was "All your base are belong to us" instead of "all you"... either way, it's HILARIOUS, lol thanks for the trip back. What game was that again?
BTW, Like Blade said earlier, bad dreams don't usally mean bad things, becuase what they DO mean, is that you're trying to DEAL with bad things. It'd be one thing if you were just ignoring stuff, that's how people go crazy, but since you're seeing this stuff happening, you're struggling with something, which is good. Peace~
-
Sorry my Islamic beliefs haven't been superimposed by Western Culture. You guys think that as long as you act, think, dress, and believe a certain way you'll be alright. Your life and way of thinking has been sold to you the same way they sell beer or toilet tissue on those TV commercials.
Trust me, nothing I have said has prevented anyone from becoming a Muslim who had Islam in their future. Yet, I have played a small role in helping others understand and even convert to Islam.
-
Sorry my Islamic beliefs haven't been superimposed by Western Culture. You guys think that as long as you act, think, dress, and believe a certain way you'll be alright. Your life and way of thinking has been sold to you the same way they sell beer or toilet tissue on those TV commercials.
Trust me, nothing I have said has prevented anyone from becoming a Muslim who had Islam in their future. Yet, I have played a small role in helping others understand and even convert to Islam.
Wrong...
I don't need a crutch to be myself. Unlike you, Im perfectly happy with who I am and don't need a religion to make myself feel alive. My way of thinking is my own. I form opinions from facts. I have free will. I do what I feel, when I feel, and however I feel like doing it. Unlike you, Im not weak minded. I don't let commercials warp my way of thinking like you did. Whats to say that now instead of commercials warping your mind, its not organized religion? I'm my own person without religion. You've told me many times that 1 billion people share your beliefs. I'm here to let you know that 4 billion don't necessarly think the same way you do. You need to understand and accept that.
I haven't seen anybody here say that you've pointed them to islam, but instead, I've seen 2 say you've turned them away.
-
god damn you ALL, my thread has been shitted on to the point where it cant even go back on the right track. every fuckin thread ends up bein the same no matter what the topic is.
-
god damn you ALL, my thread has been shitted on to the point where it cant even go back on the right track. every fuckin thread ends up bein the same no matter what the topic is.
What happened was everybody offered there opinion to your topic. But for some reason my opinion was deemed unnacceptable so people felt they had to discuss me instead of the topic.
-
god damn you ALL, my thread has been shitted on to the point where it cant even go back on the right track. every fuckin thread ends up bein the same no matter what the topic is.
What happened was everybody offered there opinion to your topic. But for some reason my opinion was deemed unnacceptable so people felt they had to discuss me instead of the topic.
-
Sorry my Islamic beliefs haven't been superimposed by Western Culture. You guys think that as long as you act, think, dress, and believe a certain way you'll be alright. Your life and way of thinking has been sold to you the same way they sell beer or toilet tissue on those TV commercials.
Trust me, nothing I have said has prevented anyone from becoming a Muslim who had Islam in their future. Yet, I have played a small role in helping others understand and even convert to Islam.
Wrong...
I don't need a crutch to be myself. Unlike you, Im perfectly happy with who I am and don't need a religion to make myself feel alive. My way of thinking is my own. I form opinions from facts. I have free will. I do what I feel, when I feel, and however I feel like doing it. Unlike you, Im not weak minded. I don't let commercials warp my way of thinking like you did. Whats to say that now instead of commercials warping your mind, its not organized religion? I'm my own person without religion. You've told me many times that 1 billion people share your beliefs. I'm here to let you know that 4 billion don't necessarly think the same way you do. You need to understand and accept that.
I haven't seen anybody here say that you've pointed them to islam, but instead, I've seen 2 say you've turned them away.
You make your own desicions because you believe yourself to be the wisest desicion maker. I believe Allah to be the wisest.
-
But if he is part of allah, you said "All things come from Allah" then his decisions are right ;)
-
But if he is part of allah, you said "All things come from Allah" then his decisions are right ;)
No, Allah is the Creator and sustainer of all things, but from a human perspective we have free will. Allah leads astray who he pleases.
-
All things come from allah? Didn't we aready cover this topic Infinite? You regressed on it before, now you are going back to it. You'll say damn near anything to win an arguement. Doesn't allah teach you ethics morals?
But like I said before, if all things from come from Allah all evil comes from Allah. Allah controls all, allah controls evil. Allah controls Doggy's sick dreams. It's Allah's fault and he isn't gonna stop fucking with your head until you get down on your knees and beg like infinite is telling you to.
Other things that come from Allah:
1. Osama Bin Laden
2. George Bush
3. Cats
4. Dogs
5. Child Molesters
6. Ice Cream
7. Saddam Hussein
8. Penises
9. Western Culture
10. Homelessness
11. Porn Movies
12. Boogers
13. Everything Evil
14. Everything Good
15. Everything Not Yet Mentioned
So you see, since everything comes from Allah you may be evil and never know it. In fact life is an uncertain mess. We all came from Allah but we all aren't perfect. Some of us are good/evil, smart/stupid, crazy/sane. But we can never know, only Allah knows. Doubt everything, because it all came from Allah. If your believe in Jesus don't be so sure that's correct because your belief came from Allah. You can't really be sure of anything really. Do I really want to type this or is Allah making me type this? Obviously its Allah. Allah has no penis. Shit now he is being a big Jerk. Allah fucks his mother. Damn he did it again. Fuck Fuck Fuck Bitch Fuck.
All things come from Allah, indeed this message I'm giving you now is coming from Allah. Allah says go kill yourself infinite.
LMAO! FUCK MUSLIMS!!!!!
^^That came from Allah! ;D
jk anywayz, hey Infinite, what U dont realize is that most ppl dont like ybeing preached to, its hurting ur case mroe than helping it, I know U wanna be a good muslim but really hardly anyone gives a fuck , and U turn off the rest of us. So please CUT THE BULLSHIT!
-
You make your own desicions because you believe yourself to be the wisest desicion maker. I believe Allah to be the wisest.
When is Allah's power exercised?- At every moment, of every day. There is nothing that is done without the will of Allah.
Ehh?
-
I think what he is trying to say is that Allah has controlled Infinite into contradicting himself. Allah controls our every action but gives us free will? So we are both free and under control.
Basically, Allah "leads astray who he pleases." With that in mind, don't get upset at Infinite for making no sense. Instead, get upset at Allah for making infinite make no sense.
-
"Allah" doesn't lead anybody astray, LOL. He places them on earth, and lets them lead themselves astray, we DO have free agency, you can do what you want, and I can do what I want. I could go out and kill somebody right now if I wanted to, it's my choice to do something against my conscience, the holy ghost, which the lord has put here for all of us. It's our choice, and he allows us to make it.
God, BY DEFINITION, has to be the most fair, the most loving, the most of every good trait to the highest power, perfectly just, etc. BY DEFINITION! he has to be, or he wouldn't be god, there would be something greater than him. Since he is the greatest, then he must be the most fair. A fair god would never intentionally lead people astray so they can burn in hell forever. A fair god would never make people do things, or leave them as slaves to his will, man is created in God's image, and as so, we are given every opportunity he has to become all that we can be; as a slave you can never become the master. We're not slaves to God, he gives us the choice to grow on our own, with his assistance, and to choose right, instead of wrong; positivity builds, negativity destroys. If we continue to choose evil, we will never grow as individuals; however, if we continue to choose that which is good, as the holy ghost prompts us, then we cannot HELP but grow, and by doing so, will become more and more like god, with every decision we make. That is our purpose, to grow, and become like him, just as that is the purpose of all children in relation to their father.
Peace~
-
Seriously, I'm not religious but why would anyone ever want to worship a guy that is "leading people astray?"
However, the free will arguement doesn't work quite well either. You can't say I have free will on faith. Free will either exists or it doesn't. You say you have free will to kill, rape, etc and you choose not to kill.
That's not free will, thats "freedom." You have the freedom to willingly kill someone. You don't necesarily have the freedom to will murder. In your own case, you probably won't ever kill someone because you don't will killingly, but are you willingly choosing not to will killing?
If I want to kill someone I can, but I don't will to kill anyone. Here is the difference again in other words.
Freedom is the ability to do what you will.
Free Will is the ability to will what you will.
God definitely granted us freedom. Whether humans possess free will is a much more difficult idea to prove.
-
*sigh.
Re-read my post. Free AGENCY. Not free will, although sometimes we say free will since to most people who aren't anally retentive it means the same thing.
We have free AGENCY. Happy with the term now? lol
-
Seriously, I'm not religious but why would anyone ever want to worship a guy that is "leading people astray?"
However, the free will arguement doesn't work quite well either. You can't say I have free will on faith. Free will either exists or it doesn't. You say you have free will to kill, rape, etc and you choose not to kill.
That's not free will, thats "freedom." You have the freedom to willingly kill someone. You don't necesarily have the freedom to will murder. In your own case, you probably won't ever kill someone because you don't will killingly, but are you willingly choosing not to will killing?
If I want to kill someone I can, but I don't will to kill anyone. Here is the difference again in other words.
Freedom is the ability to do what you will.
Free Will is the ability to will what you will.
God definitely granted us freedom. Whether humans possess free will is a much more difficult idea to prove.
What you have here is a man trying to tell me that he is more intelligent than the Holy Qur'an. If you have been able to aquire such great intelligence than please bless me with your knowledge so I may follow it. Or try to emulate your great philosophies.
See, what you have in actuality is nothing but arrogance and it will profit you not. And all the idealogy in the world will not convince a man that he even needs to get up off the couch. Islam is not an idealogy; but a methodology. So I am not at all concerned with what you have suggested in this thread. And the truth will soon be revealed; be certain of that.
-
What you have here is a man trying to tell me that he is more intelligent than the Holy Qur'an. If you have been able to aquire such great intelligence than please bless me with your knowledge so I may follow it. Or try to emulate your great philosophies.
See, what you have in actuality is nothing but arrogance and it will profit you not. And all the idealogy in the world will not convince a man that he even needs to get up off the couch. Islam is not an idealogy; but a methodology. So I am not at all concerned with what you have suggested in this thread. And the truth will soon be revealed; be certain of that.
What we have here is a man who can't back his beliefs up with a reasonable argument. Ant has brought up some very good questions. You have ignored them or answered them Half-wittedly.
I'm getting kind of scared with you talking about how "The truth will be revealed" and all that jazz. What does that mean? Are you going to do something drastic? If so, just realize, that killing others is a sin. You won't get 72 virgins, just a big fat lucifer(ibis for you?) dick in your ass for eternity.
-
*sigh.
Re-read my post. Free AGENCY. Not free will, although sometimes we say free will since to most people who aren't anally retentive it means the same thing.
We have free AGENCY. Happy with the term now? lol
No, because I'm not sure what you mean by free agency?
-
Well, then I'll define it as being able to make your own choices, whenever a choice is available. There's nobody making you make a certain choice. Things persuade you, etc. but ultimately it is up to you to decide what you want to do. Even god doesn't make you do anything. Some things you don't have a choice in, though.
-
can you prove your own free agency?
-
It's really a non-issue to me, LOL. Figure it out for yourself, i'm not all caught up in evaluating whether or not god lied to me, lol.
-
It's not a lie is a misconception.
This arguement isn't going to be won. But for those interested in it., I'll add a final explanation of Free Agency.
The question of free agency is different than the question of free will, but it is dependent on the existence of free will. Free agency cannot exist without free will, in order to prove free agency you must prove free will and vice versa.
Before philosophers began questioning the freedom to will they questioned whats know as "liberum arbitrium" or the freedom to choose. This is what Trauma refers to as free agency.
It is obvious that we are free in most cases we are free to make our own decisions. No one is deciding for us, as trauma said. In this sense we are free to choose, but are we free to will what we choose?
Unless you have the free will to will what you choose, you don't have the freedom to choose. You would only have to freedom to ACT on your choice.
That is why the mention of free agency gets reverted back to an arguement for free will. Without the freedom to will your choices your choices aren't free. You can't simply sidestep free will and declare free agency.
The misconception is:
"I am free I can DO as I will"
The question should be:
Can you also will what you will to will? Or choose what you will to choose?
As a hint when considering this idea, you should consider what circumstances would allow a person to will what he wills.