West Coast Connection Forum

DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Detox Iz Not Active on September 15, 2011, 04:25:21 PM

Title: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Detox Iz Not Active on September 15, 2011, 04:25:21 PM
This was his one chance to move up from being an underground producer (sorry folks, I'm as big a Quik fan anyone is but he's underground).  He was going to produce a track on Jay Z's "retirement" album and it was the most hyped anticipated album of the year.  Everyone was going to listen to.  Then he produces "justify my thug".  To this day I can't get over how fucking garbage the piece of shit beat is, and the entire sound of the beat is just disgusting.  Absolutely disappointing.  If Jay had been rapping on that classic Quik production we all know and love who knows how much work he'd of gotten.  Majority of people who heard the track were like "Damn this track sucks, who produced this trash? the fuck is a DJ quik? fuck that nigga and this track"


Also doesn't help it followed Interlude 2, classic Just Blaze beat
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 15, 2011, 04:30:07 PM
That song had no effect on his career. He was working with (and made hits with) big stars before that and he did afterwards as well. Are you trying to say people never heard "Lets Get Down", "Put it On Me" "Tonight" "Addictive" before?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Detox Iz Not Active on September 15, 2011, 04:32:10 PM
That song had no effect on his career. He was working with (and made hits with) big stars before that and he did afterwards as well.

who are the big stars he's worked with since that album?


and I'm talking about rappers going plat+
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Quadruple OG on September 15, 2011, 04:36:24 PM
That song had no effect on his career. He was working with (and made hits with) big stars before that and he did afterwards as well.

who are the big stars he's worked with since that album?


and I'm talking about rappers going plat+

T.I. and Ludacris immediately come to mind
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 15, 2011, 04:40:51 PM
That song had no effect on his career. He was working with (and made hits with) big stars before that and he did afterwards as well.

who are the big stars he's worked with since that album?


and I'm talking about rappers going plat+

Ludacris, Chingy, Xzibit,  The Game, Snoop, Maroon 5, Bow Wow, etc.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: kuruptlon on September 15, 2011, 04:52:08 PM
Funny thing is Justify My Thug is one of my favorite tracks off that whole album. I guess thats why they're called 'personal' opinions.

 Yeah it wasn't classic Quik but good producers adapt to the artist's style. Jay wouldn't sound right over some classic westcoast quik funk.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 15, 2011, 05:00:54 PM
kinda agree wit this tho.
Quik isnt anywhere near the mainstream-producer elite.. nobody hires him. not even the king of the west- Snoop (just his mixing)
the Jay-Z thing was a chance for him to make an impression, but he failed
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: jones5099 on September 15, 2011, 05:12:06 PM
i somewhat agree with the threadstarter.  as a big Quik fan myself, that beat was a little disappointing.  however i don't think he "fucked up his own career".

A little known fact, Quik originally made the "California" beat from Trauma for Jay-Z's Black Album.  Jay-Z obviously passed on it and Quik used it for his own album.  I wish Jay had selected it...  I think it may have been a better fit for the Black Album than Justify My Thug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVDNM84CIOw
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 15, 2011, 05:16:13 PM
"Justify My Thug" was a dope beat.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on September 15, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
I think that Quik is where he is by choice..
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Detox Iz Not Active on September 15, 2011, 06:24:09 PM
That song had no effect on his career. He was working with (and made hits with) big stars before that and he did afterwards as well.

who are the big stars he's worked with since that album?


and I'm talking about rappers going plat+
Luda an ti collaboration happened like FIVE years ago.  Snoop works with mad people from the west who aren't known outside Cali.  And dude mentioned xzibit? Has anyone fallen off more then him?



Let's face it, he fucked up
T.I. and Ludacris immediately come to mind
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Quadruple OG on September 15, 2011, 06:37:12 PM
That song had no effect on his career. He was working with (and made hits with) big stars before that and he did afterwards as well.

who are the big stars he's worked with since that album?


and I'm talking about rappers going plat+
Luda an ti collaboration happened like FIVE years ago.  Snoop works with mad people from the west who aren't known outside Cali.  And dude mentioned xzibit? Has anyone fallen off more then him?



Let's face it, he fucked up
T.I. and Ludacris immediately come to mind

Jay-Z happened 8 years ago. Since 7 years ago is more recent, then it means Quik collaborated with Platinum artists after working on The Black Album.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 15, 2011, 06:58:20 PM
What does it matter how long ago those collabs happened? The Ludacris collab happened after the Jay-Z collaboration so obviously that beat couldn't have fucked up him producing for mainstream rappers. Your statement has been disproven. Lets see who else....Xzibit (before he fell off), Chingy when he was hot, Yung Joc when he was hot, Maroon 5, The Game, etc. Not to mention all the mainstream artists he worked with before that song. It's not like he hasn't produced hits before. Addictive was huge. Lets Get Down was popular. Yes, he's not really a mainstream producer, but he's been a part of a few hits and your opinion of one Jay-Z song he did has zero impact on his career. For crying out loud, he was producing for Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson before that.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 15, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
Underground? Pull your head out your ass for a second there. The dude is firmly established so skip it all with that stupid shit. He's been in the studio fucking with Dr. Dre, Snoop, and all them cats for the past several years. He may not be a worldwide household name but he's respected in the industry. He's worked with the cream of the crop.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Elkoizm on September 15, 2011, 08:41:19 PM
There's only a few songs on that album that don't bang and Justify My Thug is one of em.
Not a favorite.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 3rd Coast on September 15, 2011, 09:27:18 PM
quik gave 2  out of place beats 2 great rappers..

and both jay z and pac spit some of their best shit over it..

jay blacked out on justify

pac blacked out on heatz of men..

both basslines are problems in the trunk

u never know what quik or jay was on when they came up with it...
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: MOBNigga06 on September 15, 2011, 10:02:56 PM
quik gave 2  out of place beats 2 great rappers..

and both jay z and pac spit some of their best shit over it..

jay blacked out on justify

pac blacked out on heatz of men..

both basslines are problems in the trunk

u never know what quik or jay was on when they came up with it...


Yo I was thinking the same thing. Out of all Quik's beats, it's funny that two of the most prominently placed beats of his career are beats that are very un-characteristic of him. I agree in thinking that "Justify My Thug" sucks. Too experimental. Imagine Jay-Z rapping over "Something 4 Tha Mood" - it'd be a classic.

At least Pac got to rap over Late Night and Words 2 My First Born, which are more proper Quik sounding beats.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: papa-smurf on September 15, 2011, 10:03:19 PM
thats the beat jay z choosed.if jay didt wat it he wouldt have used it
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: blunts40sbitches on September 15, 2011, 10:06:00 PM
^true......most producers send a whole cd full of beats for rappers to pick and choose from.....only producer i know that doesnt do that is Premo, who sends one beat to every rapper........and you wonder why Jay doesnt work with him anymore lol
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: PG. on September 16, 2011, 01:58:45 AM
OP is tripping that veat is pretty dope and i find it to be one of my fav tracks of that album but to each their own
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Maully aka [Fitted Da Boss] on September 16, 2011, 03:54:35 AM
It's dope 2 me...jay likes beats that bounce he adapted 2 his style...he did a good job. Imo
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: bouli77 on September 16, 2011, 06:42:02 AM
just wondering, how many underground rappers have platinum albums and signed the first 6 digit contract of a legendary label that had in its roster Run DMC (Profile Records) ?? quik may be under-appreciated and lowkey these days but by no means is he underground.

also I think Justify my thug is a pretty solid song. the fact that it's not Quik's usual style doesn't bother me, Quik is known to be versatile and create bizarre beats. the production is polished and classy IMO and it fits Jay's minute and precise delivery.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: D-TalkX on September 16, 2011, 06:50:43 AM
Jay Z would have had to CHOOSE that beat. So obviously he liked it. The best producers make tracks to the artist's requests.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: polepositon on September 16, 2011, 09:37:40 AM
op is trippin. I have never heard the song before cuz I dont listen to jay z's music.

But on another note: quik produces words to my first born?

this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKF21ximBSs

or the version with the sax?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Quadruple OG on September 16, 2011, 10:01:31 AM
op is trippin. I have never heard the song before cuz I dont listen to jay z's music.

But on another note: quik produces words to my first born?

this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKF21ximBSs

or the version with the sax?

Pretty sure he did both.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Gamestarr on September 16, 2011, 10:06:26 AM
That beat was and is still dope. stop hatin.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 16, 2011, 10:07:41 AM
quik may be under-appreciated and lowkey these days but by no means is he underground.

at least he managed to get a "guest-appearance"-aproval by Bun B for his last album  :)
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 3rd Coast on September 16, 2011, 10:29:03 AM
quik may be under-appreciated and lowkey these days but by no means is he underground.

at least he managed to get a "guest-appearance"-aproval by Bun B for his last album  :)

had to pay a price only unknown rappers should pay...quik said he got taxed heavily for the bun feat by bun...said it was business...but damn...
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: polepositon on September 16, 2011, 12:14:33 PM
op is trippin. I have never heard the song before cuz I dont listen to jay z's music.

But on another note: quik produces words to my first born?

this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKF21ximBSs

or the version with the sax?

Pretty sure he did both.
oh. ok. never heard the sax one until now and only listened to a little. not really feeling it. But, the one i posted I love that one.  I never knew quik produced it.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: bigpimpin20 on September 16, 2011, 12:40:00 PM
the beat is a monster, dark vibe so different from most of quiks "happy" productions
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: UCC on September 16, 2011, 01:17:18 PM
That's one of those beats where I think the mixing and the elements are all really dope and detailed,
but I don't like the overall effect... it's not like a wack beat though.

Also, from the RIAA website -

DJ QUIK   RHYTHM-AL-ISM   NOVEMBER 24, 1998   JULY 27, 1999   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   QUIK IS THE NAME   JANUARY 15, 1991   JULY 26, 1995   PROFILE   PLATINUM   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   SAFE & SOUND   FEBRUARY 21, 1995   JULY 11, 1995   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   WAY 2 FONKY   JULY 20, 1992   OCTOBER 09, 1992   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO


That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 16, 2011, 01:48:30 PM
That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 16, 2011, 01:55:30 PM


alright, mr KRS-One

define "underground"..
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 16, 2011, 02:07:33 PM
That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: dubsmith_nz on September 16, 2011, 02:56:58 PM
That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Detox Iz Not Active on September 16, 2011, 07:56:47 PM
quik may be under-appreciated and lowkey these days but by no means is he underground.

at least he managed to get a "guest-appearance"-aproval by Bun B for his last album  :)

had to pay a price only unknown rappers should pay...quik said he got taxed heavily for the bun feat by bun...said it was business...but damn...

Damn, quik got disrespected like that by bun?  Why the fuck would he even want him on the album anyway? Shit was mad out of place when all the other features were west coast
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Elkoizm on September 16, 2011, 09:20:40 PM
That's one of those beats where I think the mixing and the elements are all really dope and detailed,
but I don't like the overall effect... it's not like a wack beat though.

Also, from the RIAA website -

DJ QUIK   RHYTHM-AL-ISM   NOVEMBER 24, 1998   JULY 27, 1999   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   QUIK IS THE NAME   JANUARY 15, 1991   JULY 26, 1995   PROFILE   PLATINUM   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   SAFE & SOUND   FEBRUARY 21, 1995   JULY 11, 1995   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   WAY 2 FONKY   JULY 20, 1992   OCTOBER 09, 1992   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO


That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.

But are you not aware with the bullshit deals he had received from those labels? There's a reason he changed record labels three times and has now gone independent.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 16, 2011, 10:54:15 PM
That's one of those beats where I think the mixing and the elements are all really dope and detailed,
but I don't like the overall effect... it's not like a wack beat though.

Also, from the RIAA website -

DJ QUIK   RHYTHM-AL-ISM   NOVEMBER 24, 1998   JULY 27, 1999   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   QUIK IS THE NAME   JANUARY 15, 1991   JULY 26, 1995   PROFILE   PLATINUM   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   SAFE & SOUND   FEBRUARY 21, 1995   JULY 11, 1995   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO
DJ QUIK   WAY 2 FONKY   JULY 20, 1992   OCTOBER 09, 1992   PROFILE   GOLD   ALBUM   SOLO


That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.

But are you not aware with the bullshit deals he had received from those labels? There's a reason he changed record labels three times and has now gone independent.

Your point being?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Elkoizm on September 16, 2011, 11:36:28 PM
I honestly forgot, carry on.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: So Much Style on September 17, 2011, 12:16:34 AM
the beat is good and you cant expect jayz to rap over a typical quik beat!
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Tutlock on September 17, 2011, 01:16:10 AM
the beat is good and you cant expect jayz to rap over a typical quik beat!

yea i agree. i donīt listen to jay-z really so i listened to the song now and the beat is dope. of course typical westcoast fans arenīt feeling it because itīs not a basic kick-clap-kick-clap - beat
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 13th Duke on September 17, 2011, 02:22:05 AM
if doing tracks with Dr. Dre, Raphael Saadiq & Tony Toni Tone and the lead singer of Guy makes you underground then what the fuck is mainstream?!!
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: UCC on September 17, 2011, 03:31:14 AM

That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt

I don't think so - I know they're not like constantly on the radio now, but still, no one goes:
"hey, did you hear that guy that's big on the underground right now, that Daz guy?"

"Oh, you mean the dude who sold like several million of Dogg Food, was all over Chronic and Doggystyle that sold like 10 million combined,
and did a bunch of production on a 9 million selling 2Pac double-album? You mean that underground guy?"


Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Dre-Day on September 17, 2011, 06:52:59 AM

That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt

I don't think so - I know they're not like constantly on the radio now, but still, no one goes:
"hey, did you hear that guy that's big on the underground right now, that Daz guy?"

"Oh, you mean the dude who sold like several million of Dogg Food, was all over Chronic and Doggystyle that sold like 10 million combined,
and did a bunch of production on a 9 million selling 2Pac double-album? You mean that underground guy?"



i think they were talking about the past.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on September 17, 2011, 06:59:13 AM
Dj Quik , was known in the 90's for doing nice R&B remixes,  dont know he didnt stick to that.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Native American on September 17, 2011, 09:11:15 AM
BEAT IS SICC AS FUCK !!!!!

heres a Remix with TUPAC on the track a remix from 2005-06

http://hulkshare.com/ucof31hju4q2
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: UCC on September 17, 2011, 09:51:33 AM

That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt

I don't think so - I know they're not like constantly on the radio now, but still, no one goes:
"hey, did you hear that guy that's big on the underground right now, that Daz guy?"

"Oh, you mean the dude who sold like several million of Dogg Food, was all over Chronic and Doggystyle that sold like 10 million combined,
and did a bunch of production on a 9 million selling 2Pac double-album? You mean that underground guy?"



i think they were talking about the past.

Word, but you can't undo what he did already.

It's like if Mick Jagger from the Rolling Stones brings out a solo album and it flops, he's all of a sudden an
underground rock guy now? No, he's the dude that was the lead singer of the Stones.

Same with Daz, if someone says, "hey, did you hear about that underground rapper, Daz,"
that wouldn't sound right, because he's already known for being part of the Dogg Pound,
being on 2-3 really big albums, and for producing on one of the biggest selling hip-hop albums.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 17, 2011, 12:50:15 PM

That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt

I don't think so - I know they're not like constantly on the radio now, but still, no one goes:
"hey, did you hear that guy that's big on the underground right now, that Daz guy?"

"Oh, you mean the dude who sold like several million of Dogg Food, was all over Chronic and Doggystyle that sold like 10 million combined,
and did a bunch of production on a 9 million selling 2Pac double-album? You mean that underground guy?"



i think they were talking about the past.

Word, but you can't undo what he did already.

It's like if Mick Jagger from the Rolling Stones brings out a solo album and it flops, he's all of a sudden an
underground rock guy now? No, he's the dude that was the lead singer of the Stones.

Same with Daz, if someone says, "hey, did you hear about that underground rapper, Daz,"
that wouldn't sound right, because he's already known for being part of the Dogg Pound,
being on 2-3 really big albums, and for producing on one of the biggest selling hip-hop albums.

Mick Jagger is a household name. Daz is not. There's a difference between an artist who's album flops and an artist who people don't even has an album out. Beyond the people on this forum, no one even knows Daz is still in the rap game. I'd say that's pretty fucking underground.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 13th Duke on September 17, 2011, 01:14:03 PM
If I said the name Daz Dillinger to anyone who even has a passing interest in hip-hop, even here in the UK, chances are they'd have at least heard of the name. He is not and has never been underground, neither has DJ Quik, and neither has their sound.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on September 17, 2011, 01:15:20 PM
There is a difference between being an independent artist and being Underground 2 different things
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 13th Duke on September 17, 2011, 01:31:39 PM
There is a difference between being an independent artist and being Underground 2 different things

This is 100% the point that the original poster who stated he was underground doesn't get. Underground is almost more of a sound and aesthetic than it is a reality of their financial success.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 17, 2011, 01:42:43 PM
There is a difference between being an independent artist and being Underground 2 different things

This is 100% the point that the original poster who stated he was underground doesn't get. Underground is almost more of a sound and aesthetic than it is a reality of their financial success.


so u mean to say that "Underground" is a music-genre?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 13th Duke on September 17, 2011, 01:45:09 PM
There is a difference between being an independent artist and being Underground 2 different things

This is 100% the point that the original poster who stated he was underground doesn't get. Underground is almost more of a sound and aesthetic than it is a reality of their financial success.


so u mean "Underground" is a music-genre?

No, because that's not what I said, read it back, sir.

But in a way it can be used to describe a sound as much as it can to describe a relative unknown. For example, Wu-Tang Clan are known the world over, their name alone is bigger than most mainstream artists with huge success, but their sound, by definition is what most would consider 'underground'. Underground music can sell too you know, its not dictated only by record sales. There is no black and white here.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 17, 2011, 01:58:11 PM
i c what ur sayin,
but that analgoy doestn work on most ppl (at least not to me)
Wu-Tang n Mobb Deep, moved mainstream-digits,,, n their sound isnt "radio-friendly" whatsoever..

"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status

Daz mightve produced the biggest hits in 2pacs career,, dude is still an independent/lowbudget bum
Cold 187um is a bum too (n he invented "g-funk", n gave breakbeats to Dr Dre)
kurupt is a bum
shade Shiest is a bum
dj quik is a bum (i dont even think his last album was reviewed in either Source or XXL)
mc eiht is a bum
85percent of the westcoast-scene are independet lowbudget/eatin-breakfast-every-mornin-at-"subway"- bums..
(u can still be a legend, and a bum at the same time tho).

thats just me, take it or leave it..  :-*
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 17, 2011, 02:31:06 PM
There is a difference between being an independent artist and being Underground 2 different things

This is 100% the point that the original poster who stated he was underground doesn't get. Underground is almost more of a sound and aesthetic than it is a reality of their financial success.


so u mean "Underground" is a music-genre?

No, because that's not what I said, read it back, sir.

But in a way it can be used to describe a sound as much as it can to describe a relative unknown. For example, Wu-Tang Clan are known the world over, their name alone is bigger than most mainstream artists with huge success, but their sound, by definition is what most would consider 'underground'. Underground music can sell too you know, its not dictated only by record sales. There is no black and white here.

Underground is not a sound or a music genre. It's the opposite of mainstream.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on September 17, 2011, 03:31:36 PM
Examples:

Daz Dillinger : Independant artist, does stuff on his own , release his own music, makes most of the profits

Snoop Dogg : Major Artist , with a major label as backup, doesnt have full control of the marketing, promo and even creative control

Kendrick Lamar (not sure if he is signed or not) : Underground artist, that do not have a record deal but has a current fan base that follows his stuff, with a certain buzz

Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: 3331 on September 17, 2011, 04:30:26 PM
if doing tracks with Dr. Dre, Raphael Saadiq & Tony Toni Tone and the lead singer of Guy makes you underground then what the fuck is mainstream?!!

aaron hall? what did quik produce for him?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: UCC on September 18, 2011, 03:29:57 AM

That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt

I don't think so - I know they're not like constantly on the radio now, but still, no one goes:
"hey, did you hear that guy that's big on the underground right now, that Daz guy?"

"Oh, you mean the dude who sold like several million of Dogg Food, was all over Chronic and Doggystyle that sold like 10 million combined,
and did a bunch of production on a 9 million selling 2Pac double-album? You mean that underground guy?"



i think they were talking about the past.

Word, but you can't undo what he did already.

It's like if Mick Jagger from the Rolling Stones brings out a solo album and it flops, he's all of a sudden an
underground rock guy now? No, he's the dude that was the lead singer of the Stones.

Same with Daz, if someone says, "hey, did you hear about that underground rapper, Daz,"
that wouldn't sound right, because he's already known for being part of the Dogg Pound,
being on 2-3 really big albums, and for producing on one of the biggest selling hip-hop albums.

Mick Jagger is a household name. Daz is not. There's a difference between an artist who's album flops and an artist who people don't even has an album out. Beyond the people on this forum, no one even knows Daz is still in the rap game. I'd say that's pretty fucking underground.

If someone didn't know who he was, then you'd just say, well he's in the Dogg Pound, i.e. the guys who tour with Snoop Dogg and are on his records... and immediately he would become not underground again.

As other people said, underground is a bunch of stuff when deciding if someone is actually underground,
it's the style of music partially as well... you can be making mainstream sounding music and not selling anything.

And today, seeing as no one sells much apart from Eminem, Lil Wayne and BEP, then everyone is underground if you
were to just count record sales.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 18, 2011, 10:08:29 AM

That's three gold and one platinum album as a solo artist, so 2.5 million... not really underground numbers.
Well, most people on this board have no idea what "underground" actually is so you'll have to excuse that. They seem to think anyone that's not on the A-list and followed around by paparazzi is "underground". Daz isn't underground. MC Eiht isn't underground. Yukmouth isn't underground. Quik definitely ain't underground.

They are now. But they weren't at one point.

No doubt

I don't think so - I know they're not like constantly on the radio now, but still, no one goes:
"hey, did you hear that guy that's big on the underground right now, that Daz guy?"

"Oh, you mean the dude who sold like several million of Dogg Food, was all over Chronic and Doggystyle that sold like 10 million combined,
and did a bunch of production on a 9 million selling 2Pac double-album? You mean that underground guy?"



i think they were talking about the past.

Word, but you can't undo what he did already.

It's like if Mick Jagger from the Rolling Stones brings out a solo album and it flops, he's all of a sudden an
underground rock guy now? No, he's the dude that was the lead singer of the Stones.

Same with Daz, if someone says, "hey, did you hear about that underground rapper, Daz,"
that wouldn't sound right, because he's already known for being part of the Dogg Pound,
being on 2-3 really big albums, and for producing on one of the biggest selling hip-hop albums.

Mick Jagger is a household name. Daz is not. There's a difference between an artist who's album flops and an artist who people don't even has an album out. Beyond the people on this forum, no one even knows Daz is still in the rap game. I'd say that's pretty fucking underground.

If someone didn't know who he was, then you'd just say, well he's in the Dogg Pound, i.e. the guys who tour with Snoop Dogg and are on his records... and immediately he would become not underground again.

As other people said, underground is a bunch of stuff when deciding if someone is actually underground,
it's the style of music partially as well... you can be making mainstream sounding music and not selling anything.

And today, seeing as no one sells much apart from Eminem, Lil Wayne and BEP, then everyone is underground if you
were to just count record sales.

I repeat, underground is not a style of music. If I came out today with a song that sounds like Rick Ross it would not make me a mainstream rapper.

Also sales don't mean anything. Regardless of sales, if an artist is getting mainstream exposure, they are mainstream not underground. Daz is underground because he has zero exposure in the mainstream. Period. His past accomplishments aren't a factor. Immortal Technique gets 100 times the exposure that Daz does.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: .:Hercy Buggz:. on September 18, 2011, 10:09:59 AM
Examples:

Daz Dillinger : Independant artist, does stuff on his own , release his own music, makes most of the profits

Snoop Dogg : Major Artist , with a major label as backup, doesnt have full control of the marketing, promo and even creative control

Kendrick Lamar (not sure if he is signed or not) : Underground artist, that do not have a record deal but has a current fan base that follows his stuff, with a certain buzz


Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Sccit on September 18, 2011, 10:26:07 AM
"Justify My Thug" had a tight beat
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 18, 2011, 10:35:57 AM
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: UCC on September 18, 2011, 12:49:07 PM
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground. 

Word, co-sign.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 18, 2011, 01:06:33 PM
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  

But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Sccit on September 18, 2011, 01:20:04 PM
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  

But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.



LOL...Daz is targeting the mainstream, he just cant reach 'em...it's not like they offered him to be lil wayne status and he turned it down. he tried making commercialized rap, but the mainstream wasnt hearin it. thats what "so so gangsta" was all about.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 18, 2011, 01:50:36 PM
"undergound" is caerer-level n finacial status
No, it is not. Underground is more about a movement or following. You're intentially catering to a smaller, more loyal audience. You can call an established artist who falls off "washed up" but underground I don't feel applies. They're not specifically targeting that sub-culture. It's like saying any movie that isn't doing Twilight numbers is underground. That's not the case. There's A-list, B-list, C-list, indy, underground. It's a lot bigger than just mainstream and underground.  

 :eh:

 "underground" is not a specific type of "following" or "movement"/"state-of-mind"/hipster-mentality". a following is just a following (fanbase),,
Example: Wu-Tang fans buy Wu-Tang cd's, Wu-wear-clothes, but that dont make em any more "underground" than any other fanbase (unless they live "underground" - pun intended)

and pigeonholed schoolgrade-cards like "a-list", "b-list", "c-list", "d-lsit" is just exaggeration.
do u have a factual diagram, wit differnet "a-lsit", "b-list", "C-lsit, "d--list" rappers?  maybe u made one urself?


like Spice said,, underground - opposite of "mainstream"..   this is all very simple IMO   :idea:













Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 18, 2011, 06:35:01 PM
But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.

He isn't? He wasn't trying to push that DPG-Unit group idea when 50 was the hottest rapper in music? He didn't flirt with signing with different major labels like Bad Boy, Shady Records, before eventually going to So So Def for an album deal? Him and Kurupt weren't going to try and get a group deal with Cash Money? He wasn't on the cover of the Source Magazine in 2005 with Snoop and Kurupt? He wasn't in the J-Kwon video for "Tipsy"? He didn't tour with Snoop and Game at major venues when they did "How The West Was Won" and doesn't appear on major label releases when he gets the chance? His fanbase doesn't listen to mainstream music? Come on, man. Quit kidding yourself. He did the independent thing because he saw it as more profitable and creatively free than being stuck on a major label.

"underground" is not a specific type of "following" or "movement"/"state-of-mind"/hipster-mentality". a following is just a following (fanbase),,
Example: Wu-Tang fans buy Wu-Tang cd's, Wu-wear-clothes, but that dont make em any more "underground" than any other fanbase (unless they live "underground" - pun intended)
 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music)

Shlomo Sher's "philosophy for artists" argues that there are three common misconceptions about the "underground": that it refers exclusively to the rave/electronica scene; that it can be described with a vague, broad definition of "anything which is not mainstream"; and the myth that underground music is kept secret; he points out that no band or performer "exclud[es] virtually anyone or anything" using "secret passwords and hidden map points". Instead, Sher claims that "underground music" is linked by shared values, such as a valuing of grassroots "reality" over music with "pre-wrapped marketing glossing it up"; sincerity and intimacy; freedom of creative expression is valued over commercial success; art is appreciated as deeply meaningful fashion; and the Underground "difficult to find", because the scene hides itself from "less committed visitors" who would trivialize the music and culture.


and pigeonholed schoolgrade-cards like "a-list", "b-list", "c-list", "d-lsit" is just exaggeration.
How is it that any more of an exaggeration than terms like "mainstream" or "underground"? At least it adds more variety to the conversation. "Mainstream" probably covers about 5% of the art form, at the most. Of the thousands of movies made every year how many actually get ad time on major prime-time television? Does that make everything else underground? Are the smaller major label artists not "mainstream" because they aren't household names? For instance, people like Daz might not get their songs played on the radio every hour of every day but they have far greater industry access than some kid that might have a huge following on the local club scene. They are on the mainstream radar, whether they are household names or nor. They are established amongst their peers. It's not pigeon-holing at all. If anything, your argument is the one that is making the whole thing smaller and less definied. You're basically saying that someone like Quik who can get radio time with people like Julio G. or Big Boy when he wants to promote his albums or has a direct line to Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg and does interviews for mainstream industry magazines like Source and XXL is closer in career stature to a succesful local artist than a platinum major label one. It's the same misconception that casual movie fans brought to the term "B-movie" which used to apply to a smaller studio picture but now seems to cover everything that doesn't have a poster in Wal-Mart. It's making ignorance and misinformation acceptable for the sake of using public perception to win an argument. To me, that's giving a pass to dumbing down people's way of thinking as long as they are agreeing with you.

like Spice said,, underground - opposite of "mainstream"..   this is all very simple IMO
Well, that's cool, settle for simple. I don't see it that way though. You could argue that being an opening act is the opposite of being a headliner and depending on how you look at it, the appearance could be viewed as correct since they are on the opposite ends of the table but they're still performing at the same venue and for nearly the same crowd. But even by Spice's theory, which you say you agree with, you're disproving the argument that many of these guys are "underground". Daz isn't headling his own smaller shows. He's playing a supporting role in the bigger, mainstream one.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 18, 2011, 06:49:40 PM
But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.

He isn't? He wasn't trying to push that DPG-Unit group idea when 50 was the hottest rapper in music? He didn't flirt with signing with different major labels like Bad Boy, Shady Records, before eventually going to So So Def for an album deal? Him and Kurupt weren't going to try and get a group deal with Cash Money? He wasn't on the cover of the Source Magazine in 2005 with Snoop and Kurupt? He wasn't in the J-Kwon video for "Tipsy"? He didn't tour with Snoop and Game at major venues when they did "How The West Was Won" and doesn't appear on major label releases when he gets the chance? His fanbase doesn't listen to mainstream music? Come on, man. Quit kidding yourself. He did the independent thing because he saw it as more profitable and creatively free than being stuck on a major label.

What he was trying to do 6 years ago (and failing at) doesn't affect his status today, just like what he was doing during the Death Row era (and succeeding at) doesn't. Look at his exposure and admit its nonexistent. Trying to call him a mainstream rapper is a joke when the mainstream audience isn't aware of him.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 18, 2011, 07:33:56 PM
What he was trying to do 6 years ago (and failing at) doesn't affect his status today, just like what he was doing during the Death Row era (and succeeding at) doesn't. Look at his exposure and admit its nonexistent. Trying to call him a mainstream rapper is a joke when the mainstream audience isn't aware of him.
You missed my point entirely. His exposure isn't nonexistent either. He's exposed to a decent audience, just by being attached to Snoop. It might not be "over" with the audience in question but they are being exposed to it. I'm not arguing that he is a mainstream rapper. I'm saying there is a wider middle ground between "underground" and "mainstream" than people want to paint. It's not just about Daz. It's about a lot of these rappers.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 18, 2011, 08:11:32 PM
What he was trying to do 6 years ago (and failing at) doesn't affect his status today, just like what he was doing during the Death Row era (and succeeding at) doesn't. Look at his exposure and admit its nonexistent. Trying to call him a mainstream rapper is a joke when the mainstream audience isn't aware of him.
You missed my point entirely. His exposure isn't nonexistent either. He's exposed to a decent audience, just by being attached to Snoop. It might not be "over" with the audience in question but they are being exposed to it. I'm not arguing that he is a mainstream rapper. I'm saying there is a wider middle ground between "underground" and "mainstream" than people want to paint. It's not just about Daz. It's about a lot of these rappers.

You're wrong though. He gets less exposure and attention than artists who were never in the mainstream like Immortal Technique or Atmosphere. He's obviously not a nobody, but he's certainly underground at this point in his career. Going on a tour with Snoop doesnt change that, unless you want to start calling anyone who tours with Snoop mainstream. But you don't, because Snoop will work with almost anyone.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 18, 2011, 08:32:28 PM
Alright, let's try this one more time. You continue to think the core argument we are having is about Daz and whether he's mainstream or underground. I don't think he's either but if I had to pick one, I'd say he leans more toward the latter. I am arguing against the theory that artists fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". I'm not calling anyone who tours with Snoop "mainstream" but I would argue that if the majority of your touring is done as part of Snoop's show then you have a wider range of exposure than an "undergroud" artist. Whether or not your music catches on or reasonates with said audience is irrelevant. If Daz's interest was specifically in catering to a "smaller, more loyal audience" then he would headline his own indy tour where he was the core selling point, instead of playing a substantially smaller role in a much, larger show.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: KURUPTION-81 on September 19, 2011, 12:40:15 PM
Quik def aint mainstream but i do think a alternative beat to justify my thug could have got him more exposure with todays mtv crowd.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: BG Rapsodie on September 19, 2011, 02:10:09 PM
Alright, let's try this one more time. You continue to think the core argument we are having is about Daz and whether he's mainstream or underground. I don't think he's either but if I had to pick one, I'd say he leans more toward the latter. I am arguing against the theory that artists fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". I'm not calling anyone who tours with Snoop "mainstream" but I would argue that if the majority of your touring is done as part of Snoop's show then you have a wider range of exposure than an "undergroud" artist. Whether or not your music catches on or reasonates with said audience is irrelevant. If Daz's interest was specifically in catering to a "smaller, more loyal audience" then he would headline his own indy tour where he was the core selling point, instead of playing a substantially smaller role in a much, larger show.

If you want to make up your own categories you've lost me. "Mainstream" and "underground" are the two categories that already exist and that people use.

btw, only the bigger underground artists can headline their own tours. Daz obviously doesn't have the popularity, even on an underground level, to do so. If he could do his own tour don't you think he would?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 19, 2011, 05:25:16 PM
But someone like Daz isn't targeting the mainstream. He is intentionally catering to "a smaller, more loyal audience." He falls into the underground category because he hasn't retained any of that mainstream audience. The mainstream isn't aware of him, and most of the people that knew DPG during the 90s wouldn't even know he is still making music. His tiny fanbase that exists consists of people who don't even listen to mainstream music anymore.

He isn't? He wasn't trying to push that DPG-Unit group idea when 50 was the hottest rapper in music? He didn't flirt with signing with different major labels like Bad Boy, Shady Records, before eventually going to So So Def for an album deal? Him and Kurupt weren't going to try and get a group deal with Cash Money? He wasn't on the cover of the Source Magazine in 2005 with Snoop and Kurupt? He wasn't in the J-Kwon video for "Tipsy"? He didn't tour with Snoop and Game at major venues when they did "How The West Was Won" and doesn't appear on major label releases when he gets the chance? His fanbase doesn't listen to mainstream music? Come on, man. Quit kidding yourself. He did the independent thing because he saw it as more profitable and creatively free than being stuck on a major label.

"underground" is not a specific type of "following" or "movement"/"state-of-mind"/hipster-mentality". a following is just a following (fanbase),,
Example: Wu-Tang fans buy Wu-Tang cd's, Wu-wear-clothes, but that dont make em any more "underground" than any other fanbase (unless they live "underground" - pun intended)
 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_music)

Shlomo Sher's "philosophy for artists" argues that there are three common misconceptions about the "underground": that it refers exclusively to the rave/electronica scene; that it can be described with a vague, broad definition of "anything which is not mainstream"; and the myth that underground music is kept secret; he points out that no band or performer "exclud[es] virtually anyone or anything" using "secret passwords and hidden map points". Instead, Sher claims that "underground music" is linked by shared values, such as a valuing of grassroots "reality" over music with "pre-wrapped marketing glossing it up"; sincerity and intimacy; freedom of creative expression is valued over commercial success; art is appreciated as deeply meaningful fashion; and the Underground "difficult to find", because the scene hides itself from "less committed visitors" who would trivialize the music and culture.


and pigeonholed schoolgrade-cards like "a-list", "b-list", "c-list", "d-lsit" is just exaggeration.
How is it that any more of an exaggeration than terms like "mainstream" or "underground"? At least it adds more variety to the conversation. "Mainstream" probably covers about 5% of the art form, at the most. Of the thousands of movies made every year how many actually get ad time on major prime-time television? Does that make everything else underground? Are the smaller major label artists not "mainstream" because they aren't household names? For instance, people like Daz might not get their songs played on the radio every hour of every day but they have far greater industry access than some kid that might have a huge following on the local club scene. They are on the mainstream radar, whether they are household names or nor. They are established amongst their peers. It's not pigeon-holing at all. If anything, your argument is the one that is making the whole thing smaller and less definied. You're basically saying that someone like Quik who can get radio time with people like Julio G. or Big Boy when he wants to promote his albums or has a direct line to Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg and does interviews for mainstream industry magazines like Source and XXL is closer in career stature to a succesful local artist than a platinum major label one. It's the same misconception that casual movie fans brought to the term "B-movie" which used to apply to a smaller studio picture but now seems to cover everything that doesn't have a poster in Wal-Mart. It's making ignorance and misinformation acceptable for the sake of using public perception to win an argument. To me, that's giving a pass to dumbing down people's way of thinking as long as they are agreeing with you.

like Spice said,, underground - opposite of "mainstream"..   this is all very simple IMO
Well, that's cool, settle for simple. I don't see it that way though. You could argue that being an opening act is the opposite of being a headliner and depending on how you look at it, the appearance could be viewed as correct since they are on the opposite ends of the table but they're still performing at the same venue and for nearly the same crowd. But even by Spice's theory, which you say you agree with, you're disproving the argument that many of these guys are "underground". Daz isn't headling his own smaller shows. He's playing a supporting role in the bigger, mainstream one.

dude, im not goin to read all of this shit.
its funny, Jimmy - but u alwyas tend to argue about the most irrelevant things n transcend the debates into speeches and political fury or some shit
ur entitled to ur opinions,, but im not wit this "ranking rappers wit A-list, B-list-D-list grade-cards like they are "Big brother"-celebrities
a rapper is either in the mainstream or in the underground,, n i dont care if a rapper worked wit 2pac or Whitney Houston 10 years prior to that and has ome old platinum-plaque from the 90's on his wall. i dont care if KRS-One or Jedi Mind Tricks is aiming for a specific type of "audience" wit they music, n if they decide to pigeonhole they music wit the "underground"-label just cuz  they feel like it. an artist can't nonchalantly label his music "underground", the consumers/media and market are responsible for that
Eminem was never aiming for an MTV/mainstream-crowd when he came out, he just rapped about his white trash-life, just so happnd it bcame a success in the mainstream..




Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Jimmy H. on September 19, 2011, 08:38:35 PM
dude, im not goin to read all of this shit.
its funny, Jimmy - but u alwyas tend to argue about the most irrelevant things n transcend the debates into speeches and political fury or some shit
ur entitled to ur opinions,, but im not wit this "ranking rappers wit A-list, B-list-D-list grade-cards like they are "Big brother"-celebrities
a rapper is either in the mainstream or in the underground,, n i dont care if a rapper worked wit 2pac or Whitney Houston 10 years prior to that and has ome old platinum-plaque from the 90's on his wall. i dont care if KRS-One or Jedi Mind Tricks is aiming for a specific type of "audience" wit they music, n if they decide to pigeonhole they music wit the "underground"-label just cuz  they feel like it. an artist can't nonchalantly label his music "underground", the consumers/media and market are responsible for that
Eminem was never aiming for an MTV/mainstream-crowd when he came out, he just rapped about his white trash-life, just so happnd it bcame a success in the mainstream..
And it's funny how you obviously want to continue to argue out your point yet you seem to lack the attention span to read *gasp* three paragraphs? It's not like I'm asking for a book report on "War and Peace" here. Silly me. I thought the point of a debate was to actually use information to prove your point. Next time, I should maybe just dumb it all down with sarcastic replies like "dude, I'm not reading that". Sorry, if I lost you with all the big words there, partner. I'll sum it up with the cliffnotes edition here.

Music doesn't fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". You obviously don't agree and don't have much interest in an opposing opinion so we'll leave it at that.

Continue with your sarcastic banter about how people who like to write full sentences are full of "political fury" even though none of them contain any actual commentary on politics. Obviously, anyone who likes to read and write is "angry". 
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Dre-Day on September 20, 2011, 12:55:13 AM
Eminem was never aiming for an MTV/mainstream-crowd when he came out, he just rapped about his white trash-life, just so happnd it bcame a success in the mainstream..
once he got signed, he did aim for mainstream success
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 20, 2011, 06:14:22 AM
dude, im not goin to read all of this shit.
its funny, Jimmy - but u alwyas tend to argue about the most irrelevant things n transcend the debates into speeches and political fury or some shit
ur entitled to ur opinions,, but im not wit this "ranking rappers wit A-list, B-list-D-list grade-cards like they are "Big brother"-celebrities
a rapper is either in the mainstream or in the underground,, n i dont care if a rapper worked wit 2pac or Whitney Houston 10 years prior to that and has ome old platinum-plaque from the 90's on his wall. i dont care if KRS-One or Jedi Mind Tricks is aiming for a specific type of "audience" wit they music, n if they decide to pigeonhole they music wit the "underground"-label just cuz  they feel like it. an artist can't nonchalantly label his music "underground", the consumers/media and market are responsible for that
Eminem was never aiming for an MTV/mainstream-crowd when he came out, he just rapped about his white trash-life, just so happnd it bcame a success in the mainstream..
And it's funny how you obviously want to continue to argue out your point yet you seem to lack the attention span to read *gasp* three paragraphs? It's not like I'm asking for a book report on "War and Peace" here. Silly me. I thought the point of a debate was to actually use information to prove your point. Next time, I should maybe just dumb it all down with sarcastic replies like "dude, I'm not reading that". Sorry, if I lost you with all the big words there, partner. I'll sum it up with the cliffnotes edition here.

Music doesn't fall into two simply-defined categories like "mainstream" and "underground". You obviously don't agree and don't have much interest in an opposing opinion so we'll leave it at that.

Continue with your sarcastic banter about how people who like to write full sentences are full of "political fury" even though none of them contain any actual commentary on politics. Obviously, anyone who likes to read and write is "angry".  


im sayn what im sayn tho.
if u wouldve been a lawyer, n argued/debated about murderers under oath in court, i guess i could follow you and ur "speeches"
but im not reading a bible of "nonsense"-text, if u merely want to argue  about the  defintion of the substantive "underground" (a matter that is a no-brainer)

not steppin on ur toes either, so dont get sensitive on me. im sayin, u write too much about nonsense...  come on, Jimmy :eh:

quoting some California-philosopher like Shlomo Sher, n tryin to validate his "thoughts about music" as objective facts?
 ???
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Raje on September 20, 2011, 07:05:23 AM
Justify My Thug was an amazing beat and song...what yall talkin bout?
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: polepositon on September 20, 2011, 09:13:22 AM
i'm listening to the justify my thug. It's a hot beat. Just wish I could hear another rapper over it.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: JG on September 20, 2011, 10:35:43 AM
Dj Quik killed his career when he sold out on Trauma. Working with Chungy etc.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: Elkoizm on September 20, 2011, 06:27:17 PM
^ He produced 'Bagg Up' on Chingy's first album so they worked together long before Trauma du.
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: TerryMak on September 20, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/qK2No4hkYTo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK2No4hkYTo)

Gosh Darn.. Ultimate Warrior Shit!! Fyre!!
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: samutahjazz on September 20, 2011, 10:53:40 PM
yeah that beat was terrible. worst on the album by far, really the only one i skip. wasnt lost one suppose to be for the black album??
Title: Re: DJ Quik fucked his own career up with that TRASH beat on the Black Album
Post by: polepositon on September 23, 2011, 10:17:36 AM
wow. I've never heard that bagg up beat before. HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YEEEEEEEEEA. that's hot. y'all trippin