West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Woodrow on February 03, 2003, 09:31:57 PM
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Let me be the first to say "What an asshole"
"HOOK-handed cleric Abu Hamza last night GLOATED over the shuttle disaster and rejoiced in the deaths of the seven astronauts.
The Muslim fanatic called the Columbia crew “thugs of space” who deserved to die.
He denounced the team — made up of Americans, an Israeli and an Indian-born Hindu — as a “trinity of evil” punished by Allah.
The 45-year-old cleric said they were “criminals” bent on boosting military satellite technology so America could dominate the world.
He claimed it was a sign from God that debris rained down on a Texas town named Palestine.
Hamza — banned from preaching his hate-filled sermons at London’s Finsbury Park mosque — said of the tragedy: “This was a divine act, a message for mankind.”
His rant caused outrage across Britain, in the grieving space communities of Houston and Cape Canaveral in the US and in Texan counties littered with wreckage.
Here, angry Muslims led renewed calls for Hamza, who lives in Shepherd’s Bush, West London, to be kicked out of the country.
Inayat Bunglawala, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “He does not possess a scrap of human decency. How dare he gloat over a tragedy like this.”
Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain, said: “He continues to hurt the cause of Muslims.”
Shadow Home Secretary Oliver Letwin called Hamza’s remarks “monstrous, appalling, despicable and outrageous”.
He added: “All sensible people will be amazed someone can engage in such blatant incitement without anyone laying a finger on him.”
Labour MP Andrew Dismore branded the cleric sick and said: “The sooner we get rid of him the better.”
At Florida’s Kennedy Space Center, shocked Nasa spokeswoman Kandy Warren said: “Oh my God, that is horrible.”
Hamza was blasted by British tourists laying flowers there.
Jonathan Bancroft, 31, from Newport, South Wales, said: “I can’t believe our taxes are keeping this man. He is scum.”
Palestine’s mayor George Foss accused Hamza of spouting “horrific nonsense”.
And local café owner Judi Summerville said: “He is the monster, not the astronauts.”
Vinod Patel, leader of Houston’s Hindu community, said: “I would use his hook to attach him to the next shuttle and blast him into space.”
The American victims in Saturday’s disaste were Rick Husband, 45, William McCool, 41, Michael Anderson, 43, David Brown, 46, and Laurel Clark, 41.
Indian-born Kalpana Chawla, 41, and the first Israeli in space, Ilan Ramon, 48, also died."
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003051765,00.html
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somehow i knew some fanatic would be glad about this
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Let me second that statement. WHAT AN ASSHOLE
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Who cares about this mutt, he just wants attention. The only attention I'd give him is to urinate on his podium.
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can i ask you a question Engle? whats the purpose of this thread? is there a meaning to this? you just made this thread to single out Muslims, and paint a bad picture of us. What the fuck was the point to this article? You are focusing the boards attention on the negative aspects of some Muslims.
then these same goofs turn around and say Im racist, anti Christain etc I aint never posted articles on a constant basis denouncing some christians.
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can i ask you a question Engle? whats the purpose of this thread? is there a meaning to this? you just made this thread to single out Muslims, and paint a bad picture of us. What the fuck was the point to this article? You are focusing the boards attention on the negative aspects of some Muslims.
then these same goofs turn around and say Im racist, anti Christain etc I aint never posted articles on a constant basis denouncing some christians.
The point of this thread was to show the elements that exist in your religion that are OFF THE FUCKING WALL and seem to be accepted largely or just ignored. Feel free to post up articles showing Christians ministers and Catholic bishops gloating over deaths.
This person was a HEAD of a large mosque. He wasn't some off the wall extremist. Correct me if Im wrong, but he didn't just become the leader overnight, people had to agree with him and his views. This is what I find so disturbing. If somebody is your leader, that means he represents YOU. Why would you let somebody represent you if you didn't agree with him or his views? That leads me to belive that the attendees of the mosque agreed with him. That's unnacaptable to me.
Once again, How many Christians, Catholics, Atheists, Sikh's do you see gloating when Muslims die?
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Tech you're getting paranoid this was not set up to victimise you, CIA agents are not following your every move and your dog is not a robot with a camera in it's head to monitor you.
i have a question for you what is the purpose of your reply to this thread? by attacking the thread are you supporting what Abu Hamza said?
this is not victimising muslims, at no point was anything defamatory said against Muslims in general. The general response was what an Asshole, not holes
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Let me make this simple
Mosques are places of worship. The "Leaders" of mosques are NOT political leaders, and they dont become the "leader" cuz people agree with their political views.
A person leads a moisque if he has a very comprehensive knowledge of the Quran and Islam. If a person has studied Islam, then he becomes the Imam of a mosque. His poltical views are irrelevent. If an Imam choses to publish works, political theories etc, he is supposed to do this outside the realm of the Mosque. The mosque is a place of worship.
Now there are several instances where a Mosque becomes politicized, these same mosques are rattled by internal turmoil, and eventually lose all credibility in the community.
So once again i ask, by highlighting the views of ONE person who has no legitimacy within the community to spew his political views, what was the point of this?
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Umm his point is to tell us about a heartless mutherfucker who he is certain we would be shocked by.
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Mosques are places of worship. The "Leaders" of mosques are NOT political leaders, and they dont become the "leader" cuz people agree with their political views.
Why is he put in a position of power then? Why is he called a leader if he dosen't Lead?
A person leads a moisque if he has a very comprehensive knowledge of the Quran and Islam. If a person has studied Islam, then he becomes the Imam of a mosque. His poltical views are irrelevent. If an Imam choses to publish works, political theories etc, he is supposed to do this outside the realm of the Mosque. The mosque is a place of worship.
If this guy has studied the Koran so well, Why does he say the things he does and support the attack on 9/11 and call hero's "thugs" who deserved to die? If Islam is a religion of peace, why does he act so violent and use it for his excuse? Also, why do the members of this Mosque let him do the things he does? Thats what bothers me... It took THIS for him to be removed as head of the mosque. rememmber, he's been talking BS for a LONG time.
So once again i ask, by highlighting the views of ONE person who has no legitimacy within the community to spew his political views, what was the point of this?
obviously, if he was the leader of this mosque, he speaks for it's attendee's. You say he has no legitimacy, but how could somebody with no legitimacy become leader? That makes no sense.
This photo was taken on Jan 24th... Even after all the hate speech, he still has followers.
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030204/mdf201211.jpg)
Thats what bothers me. You claim this dude is an outcast, and has no pull in the muslim community of london, but it's obvious thats not true. He's been preaching hate speech for a long time and it dosen't seem to have fazed anybody. If Islam is truly a religion of peace, how can this man be rewarded for spewing hate, and more importantly, why hasn't anybody spoken up sooner? I can only conclude that they either agree with it, or don't care enough to speak out. Both of those options are wrong.
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Very on point, Engle...
I bet Tech's comin with more excuses and explanations...
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Great job, Engel...
*hits props*
*watches Tech burn a wack skimpy joint contemplating what BS he can to defend his views against Engels...and still can't think of any :D
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Hey Engle, why dont you go back and read over the article detective. There are several examples of Muslims in the community condemning him. Furthermore, you dont provide proof that the majority of his mosque accepts his political views. Furthermore, if he leads his mosque that means he's the religious head of the mosque. The worshippers do not follow his every word, they come to pray, and this particular man will provide the prayer . Whether the constituents react to his political views is a different matter, for them, its a matter of political correctness.
Again, one mans hero is another mans terrorist. People will have differing views Engle. You simply dont have enough knowledge on Mosques, and their relationship with local muslim communities. Furthermore, i urge you to brush up on 20th century history and the oppression, colonization, and systematic killings of Muslims all over the globe, leading to increased politics within religion.
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well people obviously agree with his ideas as he's been preaching the same things for 4 years at the same mosque on similar subjects, e.g world trade centre.
And he's also held recruitment drives for SOS in the same mosque without anyone stepping in to stop him.
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Hey Engle, why dont you go back and read over the article detective. There are several examples of Muslims in the community condemning him.
The point was, why did it take THIS for them to codemn him? He's been spewing his support for terrorism for the past year and nobody has said a word about that. What am I supposed to think when he says something and nobody speaks out aginst it?
Furthermore, you dont provide proof that the majority of his mosque accepts his political views.
If they don't accept his political views, why haven't said anything about his hate speech in the past? Why haven't they spoken up and publically disagreed with him? This bothers me. Doing nothing means acceptance in my book
Furthermore, if he leads his mosque that means he's the religious head of the mosque. The worshippers do not follow his every word, they come to pray, and this particular man will provide the prayer .
Why would you allow somebody who has so much hate to lead you in something as peacefull as prayer? This just dosen't seem right to me. If I was a christian and my pastor came out talking about how wonderfull it was when innocent muslims died, You could bet that I would do everything in my power to remove him from his position of power and/or make sure people knew I didn't agree with him.
Again, one mans hero is another mans terrorist. People will have differing views Engle.
I think it's universally accepted that the astronauts were good people. They didn't have any hidden agendas. They were on a mission of peace and exploration that helped ALL of humanity. You've not only provided legitimacy to his views by agreeing with him but I've not yet seen you speak out on his comments. Do you think the the innocents that died on the space shuttle deserved to die? Do you think they were "Space Thugs" I've seen some pretty extremeist views from you but this... This one takes the cake.
Furthermore, i urge you to brush up on 20th century history and the oppression, colonization, and systematic killings of Muslims all over the globe, leading to increased politics within religion.
WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE MANS COMMENTS?
The answer is NOTHING. This man is a bigot and he preaches hate. He's a regular asshole. Why do you stand up for him? This is my problem with your religion. It allows people like this to become heads of mosques, and in turn a platform for them to preach their hate. This is wrong. Hate is wrong. Why is it that I see so much of it in your religion?
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Same with me bro, WHY oh WHY does ISLAM SEEM like the RELIGION OF HATE??? :-X >:(
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see, engle, u asked what did the last point have to do with this right? well let me tell you. First, at no point am i defending dude, so lets get that out of the way, whenever i bring up the positions i do, is not out of approval for his comments, just to provide a different opinion.
anyways, see one thing people dont realize about the "hate" in islam is that, islam has become increasingly politicized due to whats happening around the world.
Alot of whats happening in the world was predicted by the Prophet Muhamad. (PBUH) It is predicted that the world will turn against Muslims, so when Muslims see this happening, they see the fullfillment of these prophecies. In this sense, they see their survival at stake. That accounts for the rise of erxtremism in islam.
thats why i say you dont really look at the shaded or grey areas of life, i think u look at things very black and white engle, and if u understood islamic culture and its history u would understand this.
Islam has never been historically anti semetic, for years it was at the forefront of civilization and modernization. why is it then that at a time of great persecution of Muslims, that this extremism has reared its ugly head? there is an exact correlation between these events.
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LOL@the world will turn against muslims ::) ::) ::)
Thats jus sum paranoid thinkin rite there...hah. So U do admit Islam is the direct cause of most of the terrorism in this world? ;D
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::)
-{bLaDe}
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>:( typical muslim behavior
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Who's really to say what "Typical" behavior is for a group of people?
I call it stereotying...
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While some Arab media expressed sorrow over loss of the seven-member space shuttle Columbia crew, many publications viewed the death of Israeli astronaut Col. Ilan Ramon as cause for celebration.
"Ramon can go to hell" was the title of a column by Hamed Salamin in the United Arab Emirates daily Al-Bayan, who said the Israeli's death "is enough to arouse joy in every heart that beats Arabism and Islam."
The media accounts were translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI, in Washington, D.C.
Salamin said that "perhaps the sight of the Columbia shuttle's crashing in the town of Palestine, Texas reminds the Israeli people of the daily tragedy of the Palestinians – of the sorrow, the blood, and the massacres that the army of the [Zionist] entity carries out on the occupied lands."
"But it would not appear that the vast majority of Israelis have feelings for others," he said. "The Columbia disaster is a loss to all, even though emotions are conflicting. Sincerest condolences to the American people and to the families of the six American astronauts, and Ramon should go to hell. There is no sorrow for him whatsoever."
Nur Al-Din Sati', a columnist for the Lebanese pro-Syrian daily Al-Safir, wrote in a similar vein.
"Although the disaster will not change imperialist American behavior across the world," he wrote, "the loss caused by the crash of the Columbia is not restricted to America, which will continue to be a center of attraction for the minds and geniuses of the entire world, six of whom were lost two days ago; as for the seventh, his expertise was in destroying homes and pinpoint strikes at civilian targets, so he should not be classified [as a genius]."
Columnist Bater Muhammad 'Ali Wardam in the Jordanian daily Al-Dustour criticized the American media coverage of the disaster.
"The explosion of the shuttle did not cheer us; we share the American people's sorrow over the death of the six American researchers and scientists," he wrote. "Naturally, we feel no sympathy for the Israeli fighter pilot who bombed the Iraqi reactor and participated in the 1973 war ... . But there was undoubtedly cheap media exploitation of the Israeli astronaut's death in the explosion."
Wardam said he followed CNN's coverage, "and it shocked me that the expression of sorrow and horror regarding the Israeli astronaut was much greater than that for the six Americans."
He complained that CNN "had to point out repeatedly that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and the most technologically and scientifically advanced country, which enabled it to launch an astronaut in cooperation with NASA."
"What we are saying does not originate from jealousy or from deprivation; in the Arab world we have excellent scientists who surpass Israel's," Wardam said. "NASA itself has hundreds of Arab scientists. But the [coverage] attests to the spread of Zionism and of pro-Israeli streams in the American media."
Blaming bin Laden?
Some columnists ridiculed the tragedy, said MEMRI, including Fateh Abd Al-Salam in the London Arabic-language daily Al-Zaman, suggesting that Americans were looking for a reason to blame the event on terrorism.
"Had the explosion of the space shuttle taken place during liftoff, like the Challenger, another reason would have been added for advancing the war against Iraq," he said. "But it was destroyed on its return from space. Yet it is not inconceivable that thoughts are arising in the American mind about terrorists and rogue states on other planets."
Khaled Ghalam, in the Libyan newspaper Al-Zahf Al-Akhdhar, said Americans, "whose administration has set them at odds with the world due to its blind policy, found no one to comfort them, even in this bleak moment."
"What will Bush say to his people this time, Al-Akhdhar wrote. "Did bin Laden fly in a space shuttle like Columbia and crash into it? … Or perhaps Hamas used short-range Qassam rockets to explode it? Perhaps [the disaster was deliberate] so as to serve as a pretext for [U.N. weapons inspectors] Blix and Al-Barad'i to explain the danger of nuclear warheads that cross the atmosphere and hit shuttles?"
The Libyan paper said, "Our only condolences to the American people are for its administration ... which has lost human feeling and genuine love in its attitude towards the world's governments and peoples."
In a speech delivered in Beirut, Hezbollah Secretary-General Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah said that what happened to the Columbia is "a message for all humanity, and especially for Arab and Islamic peoples and the peoples of the Third World."
"This is a message to all those who in recent years thought that the U.S. was God," he said. "America the superpower, with its navy, its science, and its invasion of space threatens the Planet Earth with war ... . Yet, yesterday it stood stunned as the space shuttle exploded in the skies and fell to earth without anyone being able to do a thing. Whether it wanted to or not, the U.S. stood submissive to the will of Allah."
'Every believer leaped with joy'
A variety of joyous responses were seen on Islamic websites, MEMRI said.
A posting on www.alfajr.com by Sheikh Dr. Ali Al-Tamimi, an American citizen said: "The whole world heard about the shuttle crash. Undoubtedly, the heart of every believer leaped with joy at the disaster of his greatest enemy."
Al-Tamimi said, "In my heart arose some thoughts that I would like to share with my brothers: First, the name of the shuttle, Columbia, is from Columbus, who discovered the American continent in 1492 following the fall of Grenada, the last of the strongholds of Islam in Andalusia. It is known that with the discovery of the two American continents, the Byzantines, that is, the Christians of Europe, exploited the resources of both these continents in order to take over the Islamic world. With the fall of the Columbia, a thought arose in my heart that this was a powerful sign that the supremacy of the West, and particularly that of the U.S., which began 500 years ago, is about to fall precipitously – Allah willing, as happened to the shuttle."
The American continued, "Second, the shuttle crew included an Israeli astronaut, about whom the Israeli Ambassador to the U.N. said that he bore with him all the hopes and aspirations of the Israeli people. Thus, these hopes and aspirations burned up, Allah willing, in the fall and burning of the shuttle."
Third, he said, "CNN announced at the beginning that the shuttle fell near the city of Palestine, Texas. I said to myself: Allah is great; thus, Allah willing, will America fall in Palestine."
Al-Tamimi said that "Texas is the state of the stupid president George Bush Jr., about whom we hope, Allah willing, that, like the shuttle fell on his country, his idiotic policy will collapse the foundations of his country on his head.
Finally, he said, "in the president's eulogy, to the American people ... he quoted from the Book of Isaiah ... . I said to myself: Allah be praised, in this book there is a prophecy regarding the coming of the Prophet Muhammad and the destruction of the Jews at the end of time ... . Anyone who sought to elevate the Jews on whom Allah has cast humiliation and misery ... will be struck by humiliation and by divine wrath."
Sorrow and condolences
Several papers published editorials expressing sorrow and condolences.
An editorial by the London-based Saudi-owned Arabic daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat declared that, "The shuttle's fall shocked the entire world. The seven astronauts killed in this tragedy represented the human race with their aspirations to unlock the secrets of the universe. This is part of the collective dream that died with them."
The Jordanian daily Al-Dustour expressed similar sentiments in its editorial: "There is no doubt that the crash of the space shuttle Columbia is a shock to all humanity, not only the American people."
Also in Al-Dustour, columnist Arib Al-Rantawi responded to the displays of joy on Islamic websites.
"Only the sick and mentally feeble dance with joy at the Columbia space shuttle disaster," he said. "This is not an occasion for gloating. After all, the American space program is part of the scientific heritage of humanity."
Al-Rantawi said that "the rejection of the 'nationalist terrorism' theory behind the Columbia disaster apparently did not please some, and they hastened to develop a theory of 'divine retribution' against the arrogant infidels."
"Once again, the Arab mind was revealed as an unfathomable storehouse of 'illogic,' as if we were a nation that does not learn from its defeats and catastrophes and hastens to bring up myths at every juncture," he said. "This is what happened in 1967; it recurred, tragically, in the Gulf War ... and here we are, repeating the same tales now."
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30897