West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: ITW [the irish boy] on February 08, 2003, 07:09:54 AM
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My dad came home from work today very pissed off about the social support system:in America. Now my dad is usually very pro-american, but today he recieved a call from a friend in Texas.
This woman is a born an reared texan, living in Dallas. She comes from a rich family, and she qualified as a procecution lawyer when she was in her twenties. Her husband was a rocket scientist. She has 2 children the first of whom is in an expensive college. Everything was going perfect for her up until 3 years ago.
She was lecturing at UT when her husband died of a heart attack. Distraught, she went through about a year of being down and depressed, paying huge hospital bills to deal with it. She continued to own a large house and provide for her children through the money they had saved. However this year, she too suffered a minor heart attack and had to give up her job. For the last year, she and her daughters have lived off the savings while continuosly paying huge hosptal bills. For some reason, a family with no income does not get the dole, of free medical insurance. This seems draconian, but it's true. Now she rang my dad yesterday to say they've run out of money. She has no way of paying for her next hospital visit, or the college fees. She will have to take her daughter out of college, and possibly mortgage the house, but not recieving any income she will never be able to re purchase it. This one time succesful lawyer was yesterday queing with her daughter, a pretty 16yr old, quing for soup at a soup kitchen. Can you people who support right wing fiscal policies explain to me why this woman gets no safety net in case she trips on her road to success. What worries me greatly is this can happen to a rich woman. Imagine a working class woman, what chance would she have? Does anyone else agree that a strong social welfare scheme should be the basis for a socially inclusive society and not just GDP growth?
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But remember Dubya's tax cut is coming, with 45% of savings going to the richest 1% in America (George's friends)
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My dad came home from work today very pissed off about the social support system:in America. Now my dad is usually very pro-american, but today he recieved a call from a friend in Texas.
This woman is a born an reared texan, living in Dallas. She comes from a rich family, and she qualified as a procecution lawyer when she was in her twenties. Her husband was a rocket scientist. She has 2 children the first of whom is in an expensive college. Everything was going perfect for her up until 3 years ago.
She was lecturing at UT when her husband died of a heart attack. Distraught, she went through about a year of being down and depressed, paying huge hospital bills to deal with it. She continued to own a large house and provide for her children through the money they had saved. However this year, she too suffered a minor heart attack and had to give up her job. For the last year, she and her daughters have lived off the savings while continuosly paying huge hosptal bills. For some reason, a family with no income does not get the dole, of free medical insurance. This seems draconian, but it's true. Now she rang my dad yesterday to say they've run out of money. She has no way of paying for her next hospital visit, or the college fees. She will have to take her daughter out of college, and possibly mortgage the house, but not recieving any income she will never be able to re purchase it. This one time succesful lawyer was yesterday queing with her daughter, a pretty 16yr old, quing for soup at a soup kitchen. Can you people who support right wing fiscal policies explain to me why this woman gets no safety net in case she trips on her road to success. What worries me greatly is this can happen to a rich woman. Imagine a working class woman, what chance would she have? Does anyone else agree that a strong social welfare scheme should be the basis for a socially inclusive society and not just GDP growth?
What a load of bullshit.
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why dont u respond properly u dumb fuck, or was the standard of education in your locality too lacklustre?
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One of the many benefits of living in the US, the way we care for our poor LOLOL!
On a side note, SDPD shot and killed another homeless man 2 days ago. Im sure cwalker would agree, thas tha best way to deal with the homeless problem. ::)
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What a load of bullshit.
::) ::) Strange how ya can live life with blinkers only seeing what you want. This is a woman that lives in a similar neighbourhood to you CWalker. Better hope u dont stumble or u'll be at the soup kitchens too.
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What a load of bullshit.
::) ::) Strange how ya can live life with blinkers only seeing what you want.
Dude, how old are you? 6? 7? Because you come off as incredibly naive.
No one who comes from a wealthy family, with one spouse working as an attorney and the other working as a rocket scientist and a nice house and substantial savings......will find themselves in a fucking soup kitchen begging for food just because one of them dies from a heart attack. Especially not in a country like America where there is such a high standard of living. Your story is prepostorous.
Some Europeans are incredibly stupid. I remember my high school had some exchange students come from the Netherlands. They said the first thing they wanted to do in America when they got here was go see all the homeless people. We all laughed when they said that. They actually had been taught that in the US there are swarms of poor, destitute homeless people wandering around everywhere, victims of America's cruel economic system. We had to explain to them that if they wanted to see some bums they would probably have to drive 500 miles to the nearest big city and they might be lucky to see one or two homeless people. LOL.
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This is a woman that lives in a similar neighbourhood to you CWalker. Better hope u dont stumble or u'll be at the soup kitchens too.
You obviously know nothing about America. The only people who are homeless or in soup kitchens are people who are mentally deranged or who are addicted to drugs or alcohol. It certainly isn't a lack of welfare as you say.....there is too much economic opportunity here in the US. There is an overabundance of jobs......that is why our immigration is so high.
Irish Thug.....please educate yourself. You sound very sheltered and naive. I think you need to go out and actually experience the world before you go out and make ridiculous claims.
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But remember Dubya's tax cut is coming, with 45% of savings going to the richest 1% in America (George's friends)
Perhaps the biggest tax saving are going to the people who make the most money because.... They make the most money and in turn pay the most taxes!!! :o
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1.)It seems to me like there aren't many free-lance rocket scientists... Color me stupid, but wouldn't he work for a compnay? When I think of rocket companies, I think of boeing, donald douglas, aerobus and the like, I really think you would be hard pressed to find a aerospace company that didn't offer it's employees many and large benifits including medical insurance...
2.) These people have a daughter but no medical insurance? That seems a little odd to me.
3.) Why can't the daughter just apply for loans? The bank loves to give out loans to college students. Also, what about financial aid? I know for a fact that there are many scholarships out there for just about anything. You don't even have to be a good student to get one.
4.) Why can't this lady go back to work? I know many people who have had heart attacks and been back at work in a matter of months.
5.) Has the daughter left college yet? Has the mom had to morgatage the house yet? From what I've gathered, this hasn't happend yet.
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I'll answer engel-wood first because he is actually making sense with his questions.
1/ Yeah he did work for a company, dunno who though, Ive only talked to the woman twice. As for medical insurance, im sure he did have insurance, but apparently it didnt cover the remaining family after his death!?! Strange, but im not one to argue
2/ See above
3/ I think the problem here is she's enrolled in one of the posher schools where fees are extremely high. Maybe she could get student aid, but the remainder would still be too high.
4/ She cant go back to work because she is currently suffering from depression as a result of the above+looking after her 16yr old daughter. Perhaps in a few months she would be able to start again.
5/ No, none of this has happened yet. From what I've gathered that is the cloud hanging over her at the moment. Hopefully she will be able to get out of the situation by some other way. I think her best option would be to reenrol her daughter in a less expensive college and/or ask her to work to help support the family.
As for CWalker, i find the only thing that is preposterous is that you claim a TRUE story could not possibly happen, when i have heard it first hand.
If I am to believe your claims about the homeless, then the american homeless are a completely different breed to the rest of the world. Of course there are addicts and a few mentally deranged, but what about those kicked out of their families, businessmen who have bankrupted etc etc. I dont know how you can consider me naive when you make sweeping statements like that. As for going out and experiencing the world, haha, i dunno how much more i can do that. At 18 Ive had 3 jobs, had a full education, been to 7 countries including USA, played soccer for a top irish team, carryed the coffin of a parent and a grandparent, and i currently box, play gaelic football, have a pretty girlfriend, am enrolled for sound engineering in college next year, while keeping up to date with an open mind on world politics and local issues. How exactly am I naive. Ive seen more and done more than you can imagine son. Sorry if I got personal there coz this was meant as a reasoned response for engelwood.Fuckit
ITW
BTW, what age r u cwalker?
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and they might be lucky to see one or two homeless people. LOL.
One or two? Now whoz naive?? Youre as naive as those exchange students. U MUST be from the country or something, cus if u took a drive around San Diego, or La, or a lot of other large cities...youd see how bad the homeless problem really is. Youll see rows, and rows, and rows of homeless people. People just like u, who thought theyd never be homeless. Theres a lady in my neighborhood that was a RN, shes been in our neighborhood homeless for at least 6 years. If u stop and talk to these people, u could really learn sumthin actually. A lot of em are just mentally ill, and get stuck on the streets. San Diego has the worst percentage of mentally ill homeless people in the US. To an extent, those exchange students...were correct in their thinking.
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oh boo hoo, i feel sorry for this family i truely do , if this did really happen but this is one isolated incident you want to make this seem as if it's chronic incident, check this shit out
my grandma has had every medical problem imaginable , and the one that tops that list is cancer not once but 3 times. yeah sure she had to pay a lot of medical bills for her ailments but she way properly taken care of and bounced back from her debt. she divorced my grandpa a few years ago and married some canadian dude, so she lives in canada , the hollowed place of "great health care" , anyway when she got breast cancer the 3rd time it was the LEAST lethal to her from the previous 2 which were in her other breast and throat (which were taken care of RIGHT away and effciently by doctors she had in Utah), she went and had her self treated to the "great health benefits of being a canadian citizen" for her new breast cancer and ended up getting even sicker! so she goes out and spend more money for better service, and the doctors STILL manage to make her least lethal round of cancer even worse and more painfull, so what does my grandma have to do? she has to come 2,000 miles back to the US to get treated by her old doctors, who cut her a better deal and took care of her great!
now i can make a whole post about this just bashing the fuck outta canada saying that their whole health care system might be "great" but it's quality is poor
relise this, in america you have many options you can either get insurance, recieve free health insurance from a good company you work for, or pay as you get hurt/extremely sick. i like my options sure i'd like to have free service, but i don't want my tax $$ going to some miss priss who scrapes her knee and gets a free doctors visit courtesy of me! i think it'd be nice to help pay for MAJOR sugeries for people who couldn't afford it, but that's all i'd pay for i'm not paying for some bitches visit for a cold! either you other people in the world get sick easily or are weak and need to go to the doctor after every cold and flu season.
also i don't see why this chick can't go back to work, my neighbor has had 2 heart attacks and lost his wife to cancer and didn't do what this chick did. also that girl in college should support herself! that's like having your parents buy you a new mercedes and then not being able to make payments then someone feeling sorry for her. f that! if you want something like that you should get it yourself
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and they might be lucky to see one or two homeless people. LOL.
One or two? Now whoz naive?? Youre as naive as those exchange students. U MUST be from the country or something, cus if u took a drive around San Diego, or La, or a lot of other large cities...youd see how bad the homeless problem really is. Youll see rows, and rows, and rows of homeless people. People just like u, who thought theyd never be homeless. Theres a lady in my neighborhood that was a RN, shes been in our neighborhood homeless for at least 6 years. If u stop and talk to these people, u could really learn sumthin actually. A lot of em are just mentally ill, and get stuck on the streets. San Diego has the worst percentage of mentally ill homeless people in the US. To an extent, those exchange students...were correct in their thinking.
yeah sucks i know but this ain't just america bub, ive been to LA 230948320984029384 times and from my observation i had more people begg me for change in Toronto, Halifax, St.Johns newfoundland, and London when i stepped of the plane
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yeah sucks i know but this ain't just america bub, ive been to LA 230948320984029384 times and from my observation i had more people begg me for change in Toronto, Halifax, St.Johns newfoundland, and London when i stepped of the plane
i aint sayin its the only place, But LA...is pretty bad. Ive seen alot of shit myself, or had family members who have also. And LA has a LOT of homeless people. I mean, im sure youve been down to Mexico...and yah that shit is TERRIBLE. But im comparing the US, to the students he was talking about from the Netherlands. I can see why they had an idea of what America was already, just like i can see why a poor family in Mexico would assume that the US is full of rich people...even tho it isnt.
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Why is there so many America-bashing threads?
Answer me that question FULLY...
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Why is there so many America-bashing threads?
Answer me that question FULLY...
because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.
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Why is there so many America-bashing threads?
Answer me that question FULLY...
because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.
How are we "Quick to judge other countries"
When you mean America, who are you talking about?
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Why is there so many America-bashing threads?
Answer me that question FULLY...
because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.
How are we "Quick to judge other countries"
When you mean America, who are you talking about?
YOU are american...nuff said. lol
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I think there are so many "America bashing" threads because through media etc it is made out to be the best country in the world and everyone has a great life etc, but then the word we get back from people we know living there is to the contrary, saying that it's an awful society to live in. Note:this is not my opinion, i dont live there. I am just bringing you a set of facts in this thread that I learned this week. Make no mistake, if it was england where the same thing happened I would make the same post. The purpose of this post was not to hate on america in particular, it was to raise the question of whether or not social welfare should be sacrificed for higher economic growth. I personnally think a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so if u raise the standard of all the links the chain will be alot stronger.
Just one other thing. I dunno the particulars about that tax you mentioned, but engelwood you said the top earners pay the top tax. In Ireland this year the top 29 earners in the country payed 0.00 tax. That is because with the best accountants etc you can use loopholes in legislation. Im sure its similar in the US.
On the homeless, I believe the US has been the worst of the rich west homeless-wise, but believe me, other countries are catching up very quickly. 20 years ago in Ireland there were a total of 19 people homeless in Dublin city and today there is over a thousand. Sad.
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Why is there so many America-bashing threads?
Answer me that question FULLY...
because America is so quick to judge other countries. I live in America, shit...i aint tryna live nowhere else. But i do understand sometimes why people have a problem with this country. If u dont recognize your faults (or yur countries faults), u can never improve on them.
How are we "Quick to judge other countries"
When you mean America, who are you talking about?
YOU are american...nuff said. lol
No, It's not "Nuff" Said. How am I quick to judge other countries?
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I think there are so many "America bashing" threads because through media etc it is made out to be the best country in the world and everyone has a great life etc, but then the word we get back from people we know living there is to the contrary, saying that it's an awful society to live in. Note:this is not my opinion, i dont live there. I am just bringing you a set of facts in this thread that I learned this week. Make no mistake, if it was england where the same thing happened I would make the same post. The purpose of this post was not to hate on america in particular, it was to raise the question of whether or not social welfare should be sacrificed for higher economic growth. I personnally think a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, so if u raise the standard of all the links the chain will be alot stronger.
Just one other thing. I dunno the particulars about that tax you mentioned, but engelwood you said the top earners pay the top tax. In Ireland this year the top 29 earners in the country payed 0.00 tax. That is because with the best accountants etc you can use loopholes in legislation. Im sure its similar in the US.
On the homeless, I believe the US has been the worst of the rich west homeless-wise, but believe me, other countries are catching up very quickly. 20 years ago in Ireland there were a total of 19 people homeless in Dublin city and today there is over a thousand. Sad.
You just lost a lot of credibitlity in my eyes.
You bring these terms like: "The Media" and "The best country" up, but what do these terms mean? These are just borad generalizations that sound good but have no substince behind them. Show examples how "The Media" portrays America. You claim that the media portarys America as "the best country in the world" Do you live here? Do you watch the local news from my town? How can you say this about "The Media" but you live across the ocean?
You contribute to the American Bashing. You gave ONE example which is a isolated incident. You portray this SINGLE incident like it's how everything is, and how every single citizen's American expierence is. You are wrong. Another thing, the "horrible" things you talked about HAVEN'T EVEN OCCURED YET.
I live in America. I love it here. I grew up without a father and no money. I've made a life for myself. I put myself though college without any outside help. I make a great deal of money. I'm doing great for myself. It's not an "awful society" like you say. I'm free to do what I like and Im judged on my skills and abilities, not on my "need" for welfare. I love America.
Next you try to compare Ireland to America with Taxes. You say you're "sure its the similar" How can you be sure about this? have you done research? Do you know how American Tax laws work? Once again, a broad generalization and stereotype that has no basis in fact.
Next, you say: "I believe" the US is the worst dealing with homelessness. PROVE it. Im sure that puff daddy is the best musican in the history of music. If I can't prove it, it's useless slander.
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Why is there so many America-bashing threads?
Answer me that question FULLY...
Jealously, pure and simple.
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I think there are so many "America bashing" threads because through media etc it is made out to be the best country in the world and everyone has a great life etc, but then the word we get back from people we know living there is to the contrary, saying that it's an awful society to live in.
Just exacty who is saying America is an awful place to live? I certainly don't see anyone leaving, just coming.
Seriously man, where do you get this stuff?
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This is total bullshit. My mom's in the same situation, and gets Medicaid (which almost any american can get for free, by filling out a form). Also, hospital bills do not have to be paid, ESPECIALLY if it means selling your house. It's the law that they can't turn you away from medical attention if you can't afford it. Anybody who's been to the emergency room in charlotte can tell you that.
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Oh, and just to explain a typical "medical" situation, my father died a year and a half ago. He incurred 3500 dollars worth of bills, WHILE they were trying to save his life in the emergency room. I didn't pay it, they dropped the charges. The actual attending emergency physician had a 500 dollar charge, he left his house and rushed to the hospital when the call was placed, and worked valiantly for an hour to try and revive my father; it didn't work, and he sent me a bill for 500 dollars, then a letter dropping the charges... all for a person he'd never even met.
My mom was diagnosed with colon cancer a year ago, and was hospitalized for 3 days, then underwent emergency surgery to sever her intestines, remove a 6 foot section, and several other complicated procedures. the 6 hour surgery and hospital bill for the 1 week of recuperation totaled 50 thousand dollars; I didn't pay a penny, she qualified for Medicaid since she had no income (which you said doesn't qualify you for assistance). The co-pay on the 50 grand bill was a dollar, which she gladly paid.
Extensive biopsies on the cancerous cells, numerous hospital trips for checkups, tests for diabetes, and the resulting medication, pain medication, home nursing for 3 months, and eventually a reconnection surgery, cost another 50 thousand dollars. again, Medicaid covered the entire surgery expenses. Didn't have to pay anymore than a dollar bill.
Also, at the time of BOTH surgeries, she didn't even have medicaid. She qualified for it AFTER the surgeries, and they paid the pre-existing bills, 50 thousand dollars, in both instances.
In other words: go bash somewhere else, I think the u.s. medical care system is just fine, thankyaverymuch.
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BTW, there's so many american bashing threads, because people have small penises. I'm serious. They think they have small penises, so they feel the need to be better at everythign else in life, including having the better country. It's called overcompensation. It's the "my dad can beat up your dad" idiodicy. It blows my mind, I can't understand why people even care. Who cares what the best country is? I think Australia is pretty damn kick-ass, and I live in America. The fact is, America is a great country; and people that live in countries that don't get the respect, or recognition America gets, hate it. THEY HATE IT! It's like it's an insult to them or something.
I live in North Carolina. You don't see me going around talking about how screwed up New York is, or how bad L.A. is... it's because I'm well adjusted, and don't feel the need to be bitter at anything better than me... California is probably a better place to live than North Carolina, but so what? I'm fine in North Carolina.
I think the same thing happens with people in other countries. the people that are in america that bash america probably have problems with authority, and conformity. They don't want to be labeled a conformist, so they lash out at any kind of authority, just to show that they're thinking for themselves. the irony is, that in itself is a clique, a clique of people who think everything accepted as right is wrong, and anything regarded as good is bad.
With all that said, there is probably a small minority of people in america that do have reason to disagree with the government, people the government has grieviously harmed.
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^^^ yeah that whole medicaid/medicare thing we have in the US gives me another reason to doubt ITW's story. my mom broke her foot and had to go to kmc hospital. we didn't have insurance becuase my mom doesn't think you need to go to the doctor unless you NEED it (which i believe too) so when she broke her foot she was expecting everything to be charged on her credit card, doctor visits, castings , surgery to remove floating bone fagments, ect. she was expecting to pay 2,000 bucks. but then we get a thing in the mail to go apply for medicare from KMC hospital. we do that, and guess what my mom paid only 200 bucks out of the 3,500 bucks in total in bills....200 bucks
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like i said, id rather live in the US then anywhere, easily. But why is it, that u people act as if America is perfect. Yall act like this country doesnt do some fucked up shit to "its people". Jus because it hasnt done them to YOU personally, doesnt mean it hasnt done them to anyone. If youre so selfish..to think, that because u havent dealt with some of the bullshit firsthand....then it doesnt need to be fixed, then youre exactly the reason why theres so much "America Bashing" going on.
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Okay, I have three peoples opinions to deal with, Engelwood, Trauma and Don.
Engelwood:
By "media" what I am talking about with regards to making out america to be the best place in the world, is the tv shows the movies etc. I know this has been discussed before, but there is rarely a movie where americans aren't the hero, or where american society isnt made out to be wonderful, other than possibly "Boyz in the Hood" or "American Beauty". Although I'm not a big fan of the british, there is rarely films about their "heroes" going to war or into space to save the world etc, because i think they're afraid to offend people. Also take tv shows, for instance friends, i admit it can be funny at times, but compare it to "The Office" in england. Friends has everybody relativly happy and succesful, while "the office" is basically taking the piss out of themselves. Also the news, we do get CNN etc over here so we do get to see the differences between how events are portrayed. For instance, the irish and english news ran storys on 200000 at an anti war protest in san fransico will on CNN it was only made a passing comment of a "lower than expected turnout".
I'm glad you love america and it obvioulsy works well for you. Everyone should love their country. All I will say is not everyone feels the same, but I believe you are entitled to love your country, just like i love ireland despite its problems.
When I was talking about the taxes I said "i dunno much about these taxes". Then I went on to explain what happened in ireland. By saying i was "sure" it was similar in america, i was simply saying if a few accountants in ireland can do it, then im sure a few american accountants could do it.
On homelessness, im basing this on the different places ive been, with sweden having barely any homeless and france to, to england and america with very visable unemployment. Purely a personal observation.
Trauma: I can't argue with you on the US medical card system etc because i dont know the details. Ive only been given these details from the woman, and to tell you the truth from what I have been told in this thread, she still does have many options open to her.
Also on your small penisis point. Haha, I cant assure you im well endowed, but i can also assure you im not trying to say my country is better than yours. Ill be the first to say Ireland is corrupt and there are many inequalities in society but I am very happy to live here. Its not coz of the wheather or the opportunities, it's coz im irish, this is where i belong. America could very well be a better place to live, im just pointing out that it too has its warts. If you wonder why there is so much interest in america, it is because they have the power to effect all our lives, therefor it becomes our business. I dont expect u to give a shit about Ireland, coz our decisions wont have a big effect on your country.
Don: There's no question of credibility on this story, just a question of whether or not this woman is being looked after.
CWalker: People, relations etc who live there and ring home every few months to find out if any property has come up etc because they want to move back. They tell us what its like. But maybe its different for immigrants than it is for natives.
Shit, that took ages to post.
Check out my new song at www.soundclick.com/itw2003
ITW
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like i said, id rather live in the US then anywhere, easily. But why is it, that u people act as if America is perfect. Yall act like this country doesnt do some fucked up shit to "its people". Jus because it hasnt done them to YOU personally, doesnt mean it hasnt done them to anyone. If youre so selfish..to think, that because u havent dealt with some of the bullshit firsthand....then it doesnt need to be fixed, then youre exactly the reason why theres so much "America Bashing" going on.
I'm going to assume you are talking to me...
First, you didn't respond to my first question. How am I "quick to judge other countries"?
Second, how do I act like America dosen't have any problems?
Third, Why is it that when I defend my country, I become "the reason there is so much "America Bashing" going on"???
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everybody in the world knows how FUCKED the american hospital-system is... its absolutley NOT free or charges or ear
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everybody in the world knows how FUCKED the american hospital-system is... its absolutley NOT free or charges or ear
Do you live here?
Have you been to an American Hospital?
Do you know how medicare works?
The Answer is no to all three. You have no basis for arguemnt.
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I'm really tired of all these Monday morning Quarterbacks...
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everybody in the world knows how FUCKED the american hospital-system is... its absolutley NOT free or charges or ear
Do you live here?
Have you been to an American Hospital?
Do you know how medicare works?
The Answer is no to all three. You have no basis for arguemnt.
so your point is: since i havent been there, i cant possibly know ??
if your answer is "yes" you're more stupid than i could imagine
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I aint too familiar with the American Health Care System, so I aint gonna speak on it, but i do have one lil greivance with mr. trauma
if you honestly believe the reason for the majority of anti americanism in the world is because people are jealous, then my friend, i find you incredibly ignorant and arrogant.
If that is what you were trying to say. The majority of hatred for america comes from its foreign policy.
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everybody in the world knows how FUCKED the american hospital-system is... its absolutley NOT free or charges or ear
Do you live here?
Have you been to an American Hospital?
Do you know how medicare works?
The Answer is no to all three. You have no basis for arguemnt.
so your point is: since i havent been there, i cant possibly know ??
if your answer is "yes" you're more stupid than i could imagine
I find it amusing that you resort to personal insults when you can't back up your argument.
Prove it. Prove to me that the american hospital system is "FUCKED"
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
LOL...
You wont? Or you can't...
My hospital system works fine for me everybody I know. You say you've read about plenty of examples, Which you haven't shown, How am I supposed to belive you? I can't. I've read an example IN THIS THREAD that showed charges and care were provided for free to a person. You haven't shown shit. "WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH????" Did you even read what Trauma wrote, or are you just blind to anything that proves you wrong.
And quit it with the insults. I debate facts, if you are going to argue with me, stop trying to make it a personal issue. THATS childish.
The insurance is there for people who can afford it. For people who cannot or choose not to have it, there is medicare.
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
LOL...
You wont? Or you can't...
My hospital system works fine for me everybody I know. You say you've read about plenty of examples, Which you haven't shown, How am I supposed to belive you? I can't. I've read an example IN THIS THREAD that showed charges and care were provided for free to a person. You haven't shown shit. "WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH????" Did you even read what Trauma wrote, or are you just blind to anything that proves you wrong.
And quit it with the insults. I debate facts, if you are going to argue with me, stop trying to make it a personal issue. THATS childish.
The insurance is there for people who can afford it. For people who cannot or choose not to have it, there is medicare.
ooh.. so i guess all theese newspapers ive been reading have been misstaking...
if you want proof, give me your home adress and ill send you some newspapers.... and make sure you got a swedish translator ::)
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
LOL...
You wont? Or you can't...
My hospital system works fine for me everybody I know. You say you've read about plenty of examples, Which you haven't shown, How am I supposed to belive you? I can't. I've read an example IN THIS THREAD that showed charges and care were provided for free to a person. You haven't shown shit. "WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH????" Did you even read what Trauma wrote, or are you just blind to anything that proves you wrong.
And quit it with the insults. I debate facts, if you are going to argue with me, stop trying to make it a personal issue. THATS childish.
The insurance is there for people who can afford it. For people who cannot or choose not to have it, there is medicare.
ooh.. so i guess all theese newspapers ive been reading have been misstaking...
if you want proof, give me your home adress and ill send you some newspapers.... and make sure you got a swedish translator ::)
Misstaking? Why don't you get one of these newspapers, and instead of sending it to me, type up the first paragraph.
If I were you I would be worrying why 60% of the money I earn goes to people I've never even met, rather than trying to bring down another country's medical system that works just fine for millions.
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
LOL...
You wont? Or you can't...
My hospital system works fine for me everybody I know. You say you've read about plenty of examples, Which you haven't shown, How am I supposed to belive you? I can't. I've read an example IN THIS THREAD that showed charges and care were provided for free to a person. You haven't shown shit. "WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH????" Did you even read what Trauma wrote, or are you just blind to anything that proves you wrong.
And quit it with the insults. I debate facts, if you are going to argue with me, stop trying to make it a personal issue. THATS childish.
The insurance is there for people who can afford it. For people who cannot or choose not to have it, there is medicare.
ooh.. so i guess all theese newspapers ive been reading have been misstaking...
if you want proof, give me your home adress and ill send you some newspapers.... and make sure you got a swedish translator ::)
Misstaking? Why don't you get one of these newspapers, and instead of sending it to me, type up the first paragraph.
If I were you I would be worrying why 60% of the money I earn goes to people I've never even met, rather than trying to bring down another country's medical system that works just fine for millions.
if i would type down the fact ive gotten from my newspaper, would you belive me?.. hm....
btw... its 30%... for 33% i get
1. free school (free private schools also)
1.1 free food at school
1.2 free books, and other important equipments
2. almost free hospital
2.1 around a $20 fee for surgeries
2.2 no charge for heart-transplantation, etc etc
3. a full social net
3.1 money provided in cash, not coupons...
etc etc....
sweden got 33% in taxes
usa got 24% in taxes....
what do i get in usa??... NOTHING....
...
i found John Q really interesting...... if i remember correct, that movie is based on a true story
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
LOL...
You wont? Or you can't...
My hospital system works fine for me everybody I know. You say you've read about plenty of examples, Which you haven't shown, How am I supposed to belive you? I can't. I've read an example IN THIS THREAD that showed charges and care were provided for free to a person. You haven't shown shit. "WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH????" Did you even read what Trauma wrote, or are you just blind to anything that proves you wrong.
And quit it with the insults. I debate facts, if you are going to argue with me, stop trying to make it a personal issue. THATS childish.
The insurance is there for people who can afford it. For people who cannot or choose not to have it, there is medicare.
ooh.. so i guess all theese newspapers ive been reading have been misstaking...
if you want proof, give me your home adress and ill send you some newspapers.... and make sure you got a swedish translator ::)
Misstaking? Why don't you get one of these newspapers, and instead of sending it to me, type up the first paragraph.
If I were you I would be worrying why 60% of the money I earn goes to people I've never even met, rather than trying to bring down another country's medical system that works just fine for millions.
if i would type down the fact ive gotten from my newspaper, would you belive me?.. hm....
btw... its 30%... for 33% i get
1. free school (free private schools also)
1.1 free food at school
1.2 free books, and other important equipments
2. almost free hospital
2.1 around a $20 fee for surgeries
2.2 no charge for heart-transplantation, etc etc
3. a full social net
3.1 money provided in cash, not coupons...
etc etc....
sweden got 33% in taxes
usa got 24% in taxes....
what do i get in usa??... NOTHING....
...
i found John Q really interesting...... if i remember correct, that movie is based on a true story
"taxed-to-the-eyeballs welfare state where the government grabs more than 52% of the country's GDP—the highest percentage of any industrial country. A Swedish businessman who earns Euro200,000 a year gets to keep just [/b]49%[/b]of his paycheck. Of OECD countries, only France comes close to Sweden in taxing its most successful businesspeople (for complete tax data on 33 countries, see "The tax grab 2001," Forbes Global, Feb. 5)."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0319/034.html
You know your argument is getting weak when you use a movie as evidence.
In other news, I heard that a man created a baseball filed in Iowa, and all these ghosts started showing up to play baseball with him. I heard it was based on a true story.
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LMAO.. nice one... nice one...
forbes is a pretty reliable source... indeed
actually, it should be 58%....
but lets be realistic... how many people earns $16'500/month? ($200'000/year, €1 = $1)
a normal good salary lays at 2500 bucks/ month.... in sweden the tax for that will be 33%...
my information is taken from "Riksskatteverket" which is swedens "IRS"
http://www.rsv.se/pdf/skattetabell_2v_28.pdf
sweden dont have alotta "billionaires" cuz of the taxes... but we have not many "POOR" people and beggers either.. because of the taxes...
nice try though
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if you ask me to find links for you as proof, i wont... you know that your hostital system is fucked, i know that your hhospital system is fucked... ive read about plenty of examples of people that havent gotten any care becaue the doctors couldnt determine if the person could pay for himself or not. WHY ARE YOU DENYING THE TRUTH??
it just makes you look like a silly kid... when you cant even admit that with no insurance you ge no help.... tell me.. if you can get help without the insurance, what is the insurance made for? ::)
It s funny how eeryone that actually lives in America has called Irish Thugs' s post complete bullshit. This thread is nothing more than sheer jealously of America.....mostly because they are jealous that we have th best hospitals in the world.
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Ey for real though.... What happened to John Q's medicare?
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In other news, I heard that a man created a baseball filed in Iowa, and all these ghosts started showing up to play baseball with him. I heard it was based on a true story.
In other news, I heard American (British) soldiers went and saved Private Ryan and also the Americans (British) were the heroes in U571. I heard it was based on a true story.
Sorry Engel, couldn't resist
;D
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Just to add to this little war of words. Sweden is generally accepted as one of the best places in the world to live, with the best roads, healthcare and social services, albeit with high taxes. Their system is being studyed by teams from all over Europe to gain some knowledge. America is generally accepted to have a poor healthcare system for those without insurance. I know your gonna be saying shit like "you dont live here, your just jealous". Well i'm not jealous. Other than a possible holiday, I wouldnt like to live in america. I too have read articles about the hostpital system, people have told me about the system. Im not saying here is perfect, its not, but America is generally accepted as hhaving a shitty health and social services and couldnt compare with sweden. I dont subscribe to any online shit so i have no figures or stats to back me up. Sue me.
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^ gee i'm sure doing fine with my shitty health care and so is my grandma
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Jake, I don't want to get too close to the bone here, because I know you dislike me every time I type a post up, but have you ever considered why your grandma got ill in the first place?
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yeah because of our fucked up US foreign policies and our "shitty" healthcare ::)
i mixed in what you/tech would think on that ^
but no your wrong with that inuendo pal, the women in my family are very prone to cancer, so we coulda been living in a swedish city for 100 years and my grandma would have still gotten cancer. fact is she was treated better in america for her sickness than she was in Canada whose big (and only) claim to fame is their "wonderful" healthcare. ALSO my grandma's step daughter (who lived in canada her whole life ) got cancer and she was battling it for 10 years! she was 7 years into her battle when my grandma and her dad got married, and when my grandma started traveling back home to get care (in america) they both noticed that my grandma was doing a lot better than her (and my grandma was worse off) so she started going with my grandma , and wam bam thank you mam she is just about cancer free! you can't say 100% becuase with cancer there's always a chance you 've missed something, but anyways from what her current doctor was saying (in america) the treatments she got in canada were out of date compared to what she received here.
so yeah you can say all the shit about our american health care all you want, and hey maybe you're right, but from my experiences with our healthcare system it's done it's job for me and the people i know. i don't expect life to be some free rollercoaster ride, i honestly don't feel that Trauma should pay for me to go into the doctor becuase i stubbed my toe and it hurts , or i got the sniffles and need a perscribed medicine to feel special,or i broke my arm trying to jump from my roof to the neighbor's. cuz that's what would happen if we had FREE health care IMO.
if i want a nice car i'm willing to pay for it. if i get into a wreck I SHOULD pay for it , if i don't have insurance. if it breaks down i should pay for it, not the government
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1. Don't judge a whole country on a particular experience that affected you directly.
2. Your attitude towards healthcare in America is illustrative of Republican rhetoric which continually polarises the US. The notion that the only alternative to what you have now is free healthcare is madness.
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1. Don't judge a whole country on a particular experience that affected you directly.
2. Your attitude towards healthcare in America is illustrative of Republican rhetoric which continually polarises the US. The notion that the only alternative to what you have now is free healthcare is madness.
1. yeah i believe i said that already, tell this to ITW, and Maestro Minded
2. don't put words in my mouth son
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I didn't.
You hypothesised situations that may occur if America had free healthcare. You polarised the issue.
Son.
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I didn't.
You hypothesised situations that may occur if America had free healthcare. You polarised the issue.
Son.
i'm sorry your brain only works in 1d
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err...ok
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I didn't.
You hypothesised situations that may occur if America had free healthcare. You polarised the issue.
Son.
i'm sorry your brain only works in 1d
a brain working in 1d??... ooh yea... i forgot.. you went to school in usa...
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you went to school in usa...
But you don't hate Americans...
::)
So far you've dissed:
Our Schools
Our health care
Our intelligence
Our movies
Our weight
and Gloated over 3000 innocent deaths,
but yeah, you don't hate America...
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I didn't.
You hypothesised situations that may occur if America had free healthcare. You polarised the issue.
Son.
i'm sorry your brain only works in 1d
a brain working in 1d??... ooh yea... i forgot.. you went to school in usa...
sorry english is your third language and you don't get jokes...... 1 demention...... , in other words i'm sorry JAB's jackass can only see from one side of what i'm saying (his own litte side) wow i thought you europeans would understand what i'm talking about , with your HIGH level of education..... ::)
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I didn't.
You hypothesised situations that may occur if America had free healthcare. You polarised the issue.
Son.
i'm sorry your brain only works in 1d
a brain working in 1d??... ooh yea... i forgot.. you went to school in usa...
sorry english is your third language and you don't get jokes...... 1 demention...... , in other words i'm sorry JAB's jackass can only see from one side of what i'm saying (his own litte side) wow i thought you europeans would understand what i'm talking about , with your HIGH level of education..... ::)
"demention" ??... i dont know "bigjakedoggydogg-with-english-as-first-language".... did you perhaps mean "dimension" ?? ...lol
the 'word' demention dont exist...
lol.. you really crack me up sometimes...;D
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::shrugs:: oops my bad. funny how much i see others on this board misspell shit who are from England
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::shrugs:: oops my bad. funny how much i see others on this board misspell shit who are from England
but when I misspell, its obvious that english is my third language.. right??