West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: King Tech Quadafi on February 17, 2003, 12:17:44 AM
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check the anti war demos thread..........
good GOD! This is exactly what a media can do to a nations populace, brainwash them!
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I know theres a fuckin connection, id bet on tha shiznit.....
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wheres the proof? cuz Powell said it?
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im not goin lie i dont kno much about the situation but do u have proof that there isnt a link between the 2. an in this poll how many americans were asked an who was asked. i remember when 9-11 first happened they had this poll askin should they re-instate the draft an 76% of people said yes an outta the people asked only 10% of those people were eligible to be drafted if it ever was re-instated. so polls like that could be very misleading
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there is a link.
they're muslim...
in the eyes of the ignorant thats enough :'(
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ive heard no evidence to claim that there is a connection
but as i said in the other thread, if there is - it ain't no reason to support the war.
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Funny thing is they're actually enemies, not allies. From what I read, al Quaeda hate saddam and those like him because of their opulence and segregation from the normal citizens. add to the fact they represent different branches of Islam.
So yea, if they'res any real link between them I've yet to read about it.
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the only other factor is that bin laden has been trying to get saddam's people to turn into suicide bombers etc citing isreal as a place were its a successful tactic :/
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Funny thing is they're actually enemies, not allies. From what I read, al Quaeda hate saddam and those like him because of their opulence and segregation from the normal citizens. add to the fact they represent different branches of Islam.
So yea, if they'res any real link between them I've yet to read about it.
^^^^ That's it! ^^^^
Sorry, but I'm starting to think that most americans are uneducated, or less educated, easy-to-manipulate, not-able-to-think-for-themself-to-get-facts-straight people... a shame. Just like Overseer said being muslim seems to be enough to be hated!
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^ aka CWalker ;D
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You're starting to think most americans are uneducated? LOL What an asshole.
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You're starting to think most americans are uneducated? LOL What an asshole.
The racism against Americans on this board is sickening.
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^ so is the brainwashing of your citizens
like Kaidy pointed out, AL qAEDA and Saddam are enemies. Al Qaeda represents fundementalist Islam, while Saddam's Baath Party represents socialist, secular society. Al Qaeda has been trying to assasinate him for years.
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Fuck all tha bullshit, i say blow saadem to pieces, bitch ass mo fucker!
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Wow...
This board is based on something America Created and is completely American, but they turn around and call American's ignorant.
Where's the logic on this one?
I think it's funny that everybody accepts each others words as proof that there is no link between the two.
Everything that I've read say's that there is a link.
I guess thats proof enough for this board,
but you say Americans are brainwashed.... ::)
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Wow...
This board is based on something America Created and is completely American, but they turn around and call American's ignorant.
Where's the logic on this one?
I think it's funny that you everybody excepts each others words as proof that there is no link between the two.
Everything that I've read say's that there is a link.
I guess thats proof enough for this board,
but you say Americans are brainwashed.... ::)
^^TRUTH^^
PS: Hey Tech...I got somethin to say to u. All the time, you bash on America for something. Don't say you don't bash, because you do. Yet, this is a Hip-Hop board. Where did Hip-Hop originate? Where did Rap originate????????
Surely you know the answer to that.
So if you're gonna bash on America so much, why don't you just fucking leave...becuase I'm really gettin tired of it!
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why are you all trying to connect culture with politics and foriegn policy?
thats like saying if u eat chinese food you got to be a marxist communist
its quite easy for people to like certain cultural aspects of a nation and then not like the way the politics are running that nation.
maybe you think your nation, america, isnt igronant enough to be brainwashed - thats your views but tech has every right to express his views about american politics without the point being brought up that this is an american west coast rap board
culture and politics are entirely different - the point you were trying to make against tech doesnt even make sense
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Funny thing is they're actually enemies, not allies. From what I read, al Quaeda hate saddam and those like him because of their opulence and segregation from the normal citizens. add to the fact they represent different branches of Islam.
So yea, if they'res any real link between them I've yet to read about it.
Yeah, thats what I have heard as well.
-{bLaDe}
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Iraq and terrorism go back decades. Baghdad trains Palestine Liberation Front members in small arms and explosives. Saddam uses the Arab Liberation Front to funnel money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers in order to prolong the Intifadah. And it's no secret that Saddam's own intelligence service was involved in dozens of attacks or attempted assassinations in the 1990s.
But what I want to bring to your attention today is the potentially much more sinister nexus between Iraq and the al-Qaida terrorist network, a nexus that combines classic terrorist organizations and modern methods of murder. Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi an associate and collaborator of Usama bin Laden and his al-Qaida lieutenants.
Zarqawi, Palestinian born in Jordan, fought in the Afghan war more than a decade ago. Returning to Afghanistan in 2000, he oversaw a terrorist training camp. One of his specialties, and one of the specialties of this camp, is poisons.
When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp, and this camp is located in northeastern Iraq. You see a picture of this camp.
(http://www.state.gov/cms_images/Slide39_600.jpg)
The network is teaching its operatives how to produce ricin and other poisons. Let me remind you how ricin works. Less than a pinch -- imagine a pinch of salt -- less than a pinch of ricin, eating just this amount in your food, would cause shock, followed by circulatory failure. Death comes within 72 hours and there is no antidote. There is no cure. It is fatal.
Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq. But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization Ansar al-Islam that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000, this agent offered al-Qaida safe haven in the region.
After we swept al-Qaida from Afghanistan, some of those members accepted this safe haven. They remain there today.
(http://www.state.gov/cms_images/Slide40_600.jpg)
Zarqawi's activities are not confined to this small corner of northeast Iraq. He traveled to Baghdad in May of 2002 for medical treatment, staying in the capital of Iraq for two months while he recuperated to fight another day.
During his stay, nearly two dozen extremists converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations there. These al-Qaida affiliates based in Baghdad now coordinate the movement of people, money and supplies into and throughout Iraq for his network, and they have now been operating freely in the capital for more than eight months.
Iraqi officials deny accusations of ties with al-Qaida. These denials are simply not credible. Last year, an al-Qaida associate bragged that the situation in Iraq was "good," that Baghdad could be transited quickly.
We know these affiliates are connected to Zarqawi because they remain, even today, in regular contact with his direct subordinates, include the poison cell plotters. And they are involved in moving more than money and materiel. Last year, two suspected al-Qaida operatives were arrested crossing from Iraq into Saudi Arabia. They were linked to associates of the Baghdad cell and one of them received training in Afghanistan on how to use cyanide.
From his terrorist network in Iraq, Zarqawi can direct his network in the Middle East and beyond. We in the United States, all of us, the State Department and the Agency for International Development, we all lost a dear friend with the cold-blooded murder of Mr. Laurence Foley in Amman, Jordan, last October. A despicable act was committed that day, the assassination of an individual whose sole mission was to assist the people of Jordan. The captured assassin says his cell received money and weapons from Zarqawi for that murder. After the attack, an associate of the assassin left Jordan to go to Iraq to obtain weapons and explosives for further operations. Iraqi officials protest that they are not aware of the whereabouts of Zarqawi or of any of his associates. Again, these protests are not credible. We know of Zarqawi's activities in Baghdad. I described them earlier.
Now let me add one other fact. We asked a friendly security service to approach Baghdad about extraditing Zarqawi and providing information about him and his close associates. This service contacted Iraqi officials twice and we passed details that should have made it easy to find Zarqawi. The network remains in Baghdad. Zarqawi still remains at large, to come and go.
As my colleagues around this table and as the citizens they represent in Europe know, Zarqawi's terrorism is not confined to the Middle East. Zarqawi and his network have plotted terrorist actions against countries including France, Britain, Spain, Italy, Germany and Russia. According to detainees Abu Atiya, who graduated from Zarqawi's terrorist camp in Afghanistan, tasked at least nine North African extremists in 2001 to travel to Europe to conduct poison and explosive attacks.
Since last year, members of this network have been apprehended in France, Britain, Spain and Italy. By our last count, 116 operatives connected to this global web have been arrested. The chart you are seeing shows the network in Europe.
We know about this European network and we know about its links to Zarqawi because the detainees who provided the information about the targets also provided the names of members of the network. Three of those he identified by name were arrested in France last December. In the apartments of the terrorists, authorities found circuits for explosive devices and a list of ingredients to make toxins.
The detainee who helped piece this together says the plot also targeted Britain. Later evidence again proved him right. When the British unearthed the cell there just last month, one British police officer was murdered during the destruction of the cell.
We also know that Zarqawi's colleagues have been active in the Pankisi Gorge, Georgia, and in Chechnya, Russia. The plotting to which they are linked is not mere chatter. Members of Zarqawi's network say their goal was to kill Russians with toxins.
We are not surprised that Iraq is harboring Zarqawi and his subordinates. This understanding builds on decades-long experience with respect to ties between Iraq and al-Qaida. Going back to the early and mid-1990s when bin Laden was based in Sudan, an al-Qaida source tells us that Saddam and bin Laden reached an understanding that al-Qaida would no longer support activities against Baghdad. Early al-Qaida ties were forged by secret high-level intelligence service contacts with al-Qaida, secret Iraqi intelligence high-level contacts with al-Qaida.
We know members of both organizations met repeatedly and have met at least eight times at very senior levels since the early 1990s. In 1996, a foreign security service tells us that bin Laden met with a senior Iraqi intelligence official in Khartoum and later met the director of the Iraqi intelligence service.
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Saddam became more interested as he saw al-Qaida's appalling attacks. A detained al-Qaida member tells us that Saddam was more willing to assist al-Qaida after the 1998 bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Saddam was also impressed by al-Qaida's attacks on the USS Cole in Yemen in October 2000.
Iraqis continue to visit bin Laden in his new home in Afghanistan. A senior defector, one of Saddam's former intelligence chiefs in Europe, says Saddam sent his agents to Afghanistan sometime in the mid-1990s to provide training to al-Qaida members on document forgery.
From the late 1990s until 2001, the Iraqi Embassy in Pakistan played the role of liaison to the al-Qaida organization.
Some believe, some claim, these contacts do not amount to much. They say Saddam Hussein's secular tyranny and al-Qaida's religious tyranny do not mix. I am not comforted by this thought. Ambition and hatred are enough to bring Iraq and al-Qaida together, enough so al-Qaida could learn how to build more sophisticated bombs and learn how to forge documents, and enough so that al-Qaida could turn to Iraq for help in acquiring expertise on weapons of mass destruction.
And the record of Saddam Hussein's cooperation with other Islamist terrorist organizations is clear. Hamas, for example, opened an office in Baghdad in 1999 and Iraq has hosted conferences attended by Palestine Islamic Jihad. These groups are at the forefront of sponsoring suicide attacks against Israel.
Al-Qaida continues to have a deep interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction. As with the story of Zarqawi and his network, I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative telling how Iraq provided training in these weapons to al-Qaida. Fortunately, this operative is now detained and he has told his story. I will relate it to you now as he, himself, described it.
This senior al-Qaida terrorist was responsible for one of al-Qaida's training camps in Afghanistan. His information comes firsthand from his personal involvement at senior levels of al-Qaida. He says bin Laden and his top deputy in Afghanistan, deceased al-Qaida leader Muhammad Atif, did not believe that al-Qaida labs in Afghanistan were capable enough to manufacture these chemical or biological agents. They needed to go somewhere else. They had to look outside of Afghanistan for help.
Where did they go? Where did they look? They went to Iraq. The support that this detainee describes included Iraq offering chemical or biological weapons training for two al-Qaida associates beginning in December 2000. He says that a militant known as Abdallah al-Iraqi had been sent to Iraq several times between 1997 and 2000 for help in acquiring poisons and gasses. Abdallah al-Iraqi characterized the relationship he forged with Iraqi officials as successful.
As I said at the outset, none of this should come as a surprise to any of us. Terrorism has been a tool used by Saddam for decades. Saddam was a supporter of terrorism long before these terrorist networks had a name, and this support continues. The nexus of poisons and terror is new. The nexus of Iraq and terror is old. The combination is lethal.
With this track record, Iraqi denials of supporting terrorism take their place alongside the other Iraqi denials of weapons of mass destruction. It is all a web of lies.
When we confront a regime that harbors ambitions for regional domination, hides weapons of mass destruction, and provides haven and active support for terrorists, we are not confronting the past; we are confronting the present. And unless we act, we are confronting an even more frightening future.
And, friends, this has been a long and a detailed presentation and I thank you for your patience, but there is one more subject that I would like to touch on briefly, and it should be a subject of deep and continuing concern to this Council: Saddam Hussein's violations of human rights.
Underlying all that I have said, underlying all the facts and the patterns of behavior that I have identified, is Saddam Hussein's contempt for the will of this Council, his contempt for the truth, and, most damning of all, his utter contempt for human life. Saddam Hussein's use of mustard and nerve gas against the Kurds in 1988 was one of the 20th century's most horrible atrocities. Five thousand men, women and children died. His campaign against the Kurds from 1987 to '89 included mass summary executions, disappearances, arbitrary jailing and ethnic cleansing, and the destruction of some 2,000 villages.
He has also conducted ethnic cleansing against the Shia Iraqis and the Marsh Arabs whose culture has flourished for more than a millennium. Saddam Hussein's police state ruthlessly eliminates anyone who dares to dissent. Iraq has more forced disappearance cases than any other country -- tens of thousands of people reported missing in the past decade.
Nothing points more clearly to Saddam Hussein's dangerous intentions and the threat he poses to all of us than his calculated cruelty to his own citizens and to his neighbors. Clearly, Saddam Hussein and his regime will stop at nothing until something stops him.
For more than 20 years, by word and by deed, Saddam Hussein has pursued his ambition to dominate Iraq and the broader Middle East using the only means he knows: intimidation, coercion and annihilation of all those who might stand in his way. For Saddam Hussein, possession of the world's most deadly weapons is the ultimate trump card, the one he must hold to fulfill his ambition.
We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. Given Saddam Hussein's history of aggression, given what we know of his grandiose plans, given what we know of his terrorist associations, and given his determination to exact revenge on those who oppose him, should we take the risk that he will not someday use these weapons at a time and a place and in a manner of his choosing, at a time when the world is in a much weaker position to respond?
The United States will not and cannot run that risk for the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11th world.
My colleagues, over three months ago, this Council recognized that Iraq continued to pose a threat to international peace and security, and that Iraq had been and remained in material breach of its disarmament obligations.
Today, Iraq still poses a threat and Iraq still remains in material breach. Indeed, by its failure to seize on its one last opportunity to come clean and disarm, Iraq has put itself in deeper material breach and closer to the day when it will face serious consequences for its continue defiance of this Council.
My colleagues, we have an obligation to our citizens. We have an obligation to this body to see that our resolutions are complied with. We wrote 1441 not in order to go to war. We wrote 1441 to try to preserve the peace. We wrote 1441 to give Iraq one last chance.
Iraq is not, so far, taking that one last chance.
We must not shrink from whatever is ahead of us. We must not fail in our duty and our responsibility to the citizens of the countries that are represented by this body.
Source: http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm
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even if its so called "right" to go to war. I wouldnt want war. FUCK WAR.
Newsflash, most americans dont give a fuck whats goin on with foreign policy. I bet you those people that were asked about the connection, were mostly Veterans from past wars, 60+ year olds and so on. and they just think everybody else is evil, cuz all they know is the red white and blue. and they never got to experience the hell of a horrible life.
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lol
Incredible knowledge dropped in this thread, until Engel, who still can not understand the basics of Politics, quotes from Colin Powell.
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First of all, Saddams connections to HAMAS is irrelevant
2nd of all, im sorry, but "foreign intelligence" sources, dont convince me at all
and third, to the moron who asked me why i post on WCC.
You lil pathetic fool, what does my political views have to do with hip hop? if anything, hip hop has always been against the govt, and very liberal. Shiit, how about u stop listening to rap? ::)
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BUT TECH, YOUR KARMA IS SO LOW, YOU MUST BE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Use your knowledge on them like you beat a drum, hit them so hard that one day, they will echoe your realness.
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lol
Incredible knowledge dropped in this thread, until Engel, who still can not understand the basics of Politics, quotes from Colin Powell.
Show me the "Incredible knowledge" that was dropped...
Show me ONE fact that supports your argument that was posted in this thread and I'll shut up.
You people don't deal in facts, You deal in what makes you feel good at the moment. Haven't you learned anything from world war 2? The "Head in the sand" attitude won't work.
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and third, to the moron who asked me why i post on WCC.
You lil pathetic fool, what does my political views have to do with hip hop? if anything, hip hop has always been against the govt, and very liberal. Shiit, how about u stop listening to rap? ::)
1) I didn't ask why u post on WCC...I asked why u bash on America so much. (Don't put words into my mouth)
2) I didn't compare your politics to hip-hop, dip shit.
3) All the time, you come on here talkin like you're the smartest person walking on the planet, and you're never wrong. You are not god, so stop it.
4) Stop listening to rap? I got a better suggestion...why don't you start listening to more rap. Maybe then you wouldn't be such an asshole.
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yeah and canada is soooooo much smarter ::)
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Have you ever been to Canada for more than a holiday Jake?
I haven't, and I won't make judgements, bereft of facts, on a country that I have never lived in.
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Hey Jake, IN CANADA WE ARE NOT A BUNCH OF PATRIOTIC IGNORANT WAR MONGERERS WHO ARE BRAINWASHED!!!!
Having said that, Xeoro or whatever the fuck your name is, go read some books then come back here. Im serious, its bad enough I got the Traumas, Jakes and Engles to deal with, Im ok with that, but some of you lil kids need to brush up on ya shit.
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Have you ever been to Canada for more than a holiday Jake?
I haven't, and I won't make judgements, bereft of facts, on a country that I have never lived in.
It's a shame you won't do the same for the United States...
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Hey Jake, IN CANADA WE ARE NOT A BUNCH OF PATRIOTIC IGNORANT WAR MONGERERS WHO ARE BRAINWASHED!!!!
But you don't hate Americans....
::)
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Hey Jake, IN CANADA WE ARE NOT A BUNCH OF PATRIOTIC IGNORANT WAR MONGERERS WHO ARE BRAINWASHED!!!!
Having said that, Xeoro or whatever the fuck your name is, go read some books then come back here. Im serious, its bad enough I got the Traumas, Jakes and Engles to deal with, Im ok with that, but some of you lil kids need to brush up on ya shit.
Maybe you need to stop reading so many books, and stop brushing up on your shit so you can look literate, articulate, and intelligent in front of a bunch of people you don't even know on a message board...but hey, it's just a suggestion ::)
PS: I'm cool with Canadien people...they make damn good beer, play damn good hockey, and, and...shit...thats all they do!
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Maybe you need to stop reading so many books, and stop brushing up on your shit
then how else am I supposed to make fun of you guys? at least make this ish fun for me.
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Have you ever been to Canada for more than a holiday Jake?
I haven't, and I won't make judgements, bereft of facts, on a country that I have never lived in.
1. i've been to canada 928374923874987 times to visit my grandma during her battle with cancer/her wedding/christmas/thanksgiving/spend summer vacation so i'm VERY familiar with the ciitizens of canada
2. canada is the last place i'd choose to take a vacation
3. then tell all these british irish german swedish and korean fools who don't live in the US to stop talking shit about us
Hey Jake, IN CANADA WE ARE NOT A BUNCH OF PATRIOTIC IGNORANT WAR MONGERERS WHO ARE BRAINWASHED!!!!
Having said that, Xeoro or whatever the fuck your name is, go read some books then come back here. Im serious, its bad enough I got the Traumas, Jakes and Engles to deal with, Im ok with that, but some of you lil kids need to brush up on ya shit.
hey tech yes you are monkey!
you here oh canada more times than the star spangled bannor when you compare the us to canada
ALOT of the times when i was asked where i was from in california i'd say "bakersfield about and hour and a half away from Los Angeles" they'd respond by saying "oh so you live by the capitol"
you know how many times i had to hear my grandma's husband's war stories.....
and if i'm a little kid what are you?......you continuously proove your maturity over and over again son and you act like 12 year old from what you tell us on other boards
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shut up you sensitive little girl. Go in the corner and cry. Then wear this dufus hat and repeat what you said in the above thread. I';ll try to get some WCC folks to actually read what u said. Its gonna be hard convincing people to pay attention to u tho. So dont get your hopes up.
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shut up you sensitive little girl. Go in the corner and cry. Then wear this dufus hat and repeat what you said in the above thread. I';ll try to get some WCC folks to actually read what u said. Its gonna be hard convincing people to pay attention to u tho. So dont get your hopes up.
oh god that was funny move over Bernie Mack we got a new king of comedy ::)
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Hey Jake, IN CANADA WE ARE NOT A BUNCH OF PATRIOTIC IGNORANT WAR MONGERERS WHO ARE BRAINWASHED!!!!
No one in the world is more brainwashed or ignorant than Muslims.
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Have you ever been to Canada for more than a holiday Jake?
I haven't, and I won't make judgements, bereft of facts, on a country that I have never lived in.
It's a shame you won't do the same for the United States...
I talk in facts only. Jake has no facts about Canada, yet bashes the country because of his gran.
928374923874987 times? Do me a favour kid, stop messing around on here with your misguided, ill informed patriotism.
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I talk in facts only.
LOL...
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Have you ever been to Canada for more than a holiday Jake?
I haven't, and I won't make judgements, bereft of facts, on a country that I have never lived in.
It's a shame you won't do the same for the United States...
I talk in facts only. Jake has no facts about Canada, yet bashes the country because of his gran.
928374923874987 times? Do me a favour kid, stop messing around on here with your misguided, ill informed patriotism.
if you add up all the times i had to go to canada it' s been about 1.5 years......and i don't know about canada ::)
yet you've been in america 0-1 week and make any judgement you want
fuck you , i have a right to patriotic
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3 actually
;D
Blind patriotism