West Coast Connection Forum

Elements => Outbound Connections => Topic started by: King Of The Greater Los Angeles Area on December 24, 2012, 02:55:23 PM

Title: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: King Of The Greater Los Angeles Area on December 24, 2012, 02:55:23 PM
Its kinda crazy how far Jay Z has come. I remember first getting into him around Hard Knock Life. People then thought oh Jay is mainstream now he's huge, little did they know he would reach god like status. I've never been a huge Hov fan but I can't hate on his music. He usually comes correct. Ive been through most of his catalogue and I gotta say Reasonable Doubt is still the best thing he ever did and I know most hip hop heads would agree but nowadays with these 90s and 2000s babies growing up never knowing about these classics you never know.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Black Excellence on December 24, 2012, 03:10:36 PM
the blue print is his best album.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 24, 2012, 03:16:25 PM
fuck Jay Z he's broke & I smoke daily, hit me!



in all seriousness, Reasonable Doubt is overrated.  I fucked with The Dynasty tough tho.  American Gangsta was the chit but i havent heard that in a long time.  In fact i dont even usually listen to Jay's music even tho he's super nice with it (post-Biggie jacking).


I thought BP3 was underrated, like Tha Carter IV it was outta sequence and it coulda been cut down a track or two.  "On To The Next One" shoulda been the Outro for the album if u ask me.  




"oh behave...H!"
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on December 24, 2012, 03:47:44 PM
handsdown reasonable doubt



blueprint isnt even CLOSE
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: RingMan on December 24, 2012, 05:14:19 PM
handsdown reasonable doubt
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on December 24, 2012, 06:31:44 PM
Reasonable Doubt is the "RAW" all his other albums are "RE-POP"......
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 24, 2012, 06:59:44 PM
Reasonable Doubt is the "RAW" all his other albums are "RE-POP"......


what makes it the most "raw"?  becuz of the cliche nostalgia that Generation X tags to literally every rapper who started in the 90's Debut?  Or did Jay somehow never match the so-called lyricism and beats since then?  Becuz there's 1000000 reasons why Reasonable Doubt isnt his best and why its just the taggalong thing to say for ppl who like Jay but never really listen to his music like that
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Chamillitary Click on December 24, 2012, 10:31:44 PM
Yeah, easy lol.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on December 25, 2012, 02:41:48 AM
In someways I felt In My Lifetime Vol 1 was his best. His first 3 albums are the 3 best of his catalogue in my opinion.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: HighEyeCue on December 25, 2012, 05:03:51 AM
In someways I felt In My Lifetime Vol 1 was his best. His first 3 albums are the 3 best of his catalogue in my opinion.

yeah its between Vol 1 and Reasonable Doubt... "Where I'm From" is the rawest track Jay ever recorded 8)
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Black Excellence on December 25, 2012, 05:41:40 AM
Reasonable Doubt is the "RAW" all his other albums are "RE-POP"......


what makes it the most "raw"?  becuz of the cliche nostalgia that Generation X tags to literally every rapper who started in the 90's Debut?  Or did Jay somehow never match the so-called lyricism and beats since then?  Becuz there's 1000000 reasons why Reasonable Doubt isnt his best and why its just the taggalong thing to say for ppl who like Jay but never really listen to his music like that
i agree. it's the safe choice for those who haven't heard 'em all. LOL
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: jeromechickenbone on December 25, 2012, 10:56:40 AM
Reasonable doubt and it's not even close.

Jay has a lot of great singles over the years, but his albums mostly suck.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 25, 2012, 01:11:34 PM
Reasonable Doubt is the "RAW" all his other albums are "RE-POP"......


what makes it the most "raw"?  becuz of the cliche nostalgia that Generation X tags to literally every rapper who started in the 90's Debut?  Or did Jay somehow never match the so-called lyricism and beats since then?  Becuz there's 1000000 reasons why Reasonable Doubt isnt his best and why its just the taggalong thing to say for ppl who like Jay but never really listen to his music like that
i agree. it's the safe choice for those who haven't heard 'em all. LOL


Exactly.  As soon as somebody says Reasonable Doubt is Jay's best work i have to automatically question their depth of knowledge of the Jiggaman
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on December 25, 2012, 05:24:21 PM
I don't need depth knowledge of Jigga to know what REASONABLE DOUBT meant to me. I used to rock that album on cassette when it first came out and still do to this day. My "knowledge" on Jay-Z is probably more then most of his dick riders.

Reasonable Doubt is right up there in my EAST COAST classic album list right beside ILLMATIC, READY TO DIE.... probably even infront of them... Jigga's mistake in my books is dumbing down his lyrics...
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 25, 2012, 07:00:19 PM
I don't need depth knowledge of Jigga to know what REASONABLE DOUBT meant to me. I used to rock that album on cassette when it first came out and still do to this day. My "knowledge" on Jay-Z is probably more then most of his dick riders.

Reasonable Doubt is right up there in my EAST COAST classic album list right beside ILLMATIC, READY TO DIE.... probably even infront of them... Jigga's mistake in my books is dumbing down his lyrics...


thats cool n all but u still havent said why.  and what do u mean he dumbed down his lyrics?  do u mean he put an extra 15 minutes of air time on his CD to make music that would appeal to a broader audience?
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: jeromechickenbone on December 25, 2012, 07:08:40 PM
Reasonable Doubt is the "RAW" all his other albums are "RE-POP"......


what makes it the most "raw"?  becuz of the cliche nostalgia that Generation X tags to literally every rapper who started in the 90's Debut?  Or did Jay somehow never match the so-called lyricism and beats since then?  Becuz there's 1000000 reasons why Reasonable Doubt isnt his best and why its just the taggalong thing to say for ppl who like Jay but never really listen to his music like that
i agree. it's the safe choice for those who haven't heard 'em all. LOL


Exactly.  As soon as somebody says Reasonable Doubt is Jay's best work i have to automatically question their depth of knowledge of the Jiggaman

Every time you post I question your knowledge on life.

You're one of those cats that's butthurt cuz you came up on wack ass music but have to tell yourself it's tight. I actually purchased jiggamans first 6 albums the year they came out. I was in the landscape and understood the context of those albums in a contemporary fashion. I was listening to hip hop at the time some of the all time classics were dropping.

You on the other hand prolly heard reasonable doubt about 13 years after it dropped. There's nothing wrong with that, and props for checking it out. But you're talking way over your head and completely clueless to what you're talking about. You're one of those proud ignorant people who stays losing because you haven't learned to be humble.

90's hiphop>>>>>>>2012 hip hop. U mad?
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 25, 2012, 07:17:18 PM
wow, wat a pussy. 



i too actually had all of Jigga's album (brought from FYE) when he was on his come up, so I've literally grown up listening to Jay since 97' (wow right).  your age doesnt give u rank Aunt Flo so chill with all of that noise.  I used to argue with my friends at the time (during that era) about who had the better crew between RocAFella, Cash Money, and Ruff Ryders so i whole heartedly reject your deposit. 


and im actually very humble, u just mad becuz u cant articulate your views on HOW Reasonable Doubt is Jay's best album verses me giving u all of the reasons why its not
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on December 25, 2012, 11:45:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jx3jGAlKG0
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 26, 2012, 07:56:07 AM
so that ONE song makes every other Jay song since then subpar?  gtfoh!
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on December 26, 2012, 11:04:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MuGVkPC8RY
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 26, 2012, 12:55:26 PM
so then you have no actual real basis for your claim
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: J. B A N A N A S on December 26, 2012, 05:07:26 PM
Reasonable doubt and it's not even close.

Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on December 26, 2012, 08:11:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3MuhixKru0
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sikotic™ on December 26, 2012, 09:56:25 PM
there's only 2-3 tracks I like on Reasonable Doubt. That being said, it is his best album lol.

Brian, find a internet cafe in Ghana and drop a lil knowledge about Jigga, por favor. I got your back on this one.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: dubsmith_nz on December 27, 2012, 02:11:59 PM
the blue print is his best album.

Yeah to me it's blueprint as well, to me the album as a whole just flows better, with vintage production from Bink!, Kanye and Blaze, and tracks like "Song Cry", "Heart of the City" and "Never Change" showing Jigga at his best, displaying a level of depth not really seen on "Reasonable Doubt" in my opinion. Technically "Reasonable Doubt" is probably his best and it definitely has that vintage hip hop feel to it, but I was never a big fan of the Mafioso era of hip hop. "D'Evils" is one of my top 5 Jay tracks though.

Jay has a pretty deep catalogue, I could make an argument for "Blueprint", "Black Album" Reasonable Doubt" or "Volume 1" for his best album.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: D-Nice on December 27, 2012, 03:54:27 PM
Yeah I would have to go with his first album as well. Definitely as good or more superior singles on other albums but as a whole I go with RD.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on December 29, 2012, 04:24:52 AM
I agree it's a default answer for people to say Reasonable Doubt is his best. He undoubtedly got better as time went on.

And for the person who said Jay dropped got singles but his albums never matched - you couldn't be farther from the truth. Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: teecee on December 29, 2012, 12:17:59 PM
Those of us old enough to remember know that RD wasn't loved by fans or critics at the time.  It was a dope album, with some absolute classic songs.  However, a wack single (Aint No Nigga) and the fact that Jay was more piggy-backing Raekwon and Nas, meant That the album offered little in the way of originality.

Great album, but the masses didn't think of it as classic until Jay basically started the campaign himself once Hard knock Life dropped. 

For the record, my two favorite Jay albums are Blueprint and TBA.

Jay was sharper lyrically on RD, but concept
Wise those two albums to me are better. Blueprint, with the soul samples
 Changed the game. 
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Blood$ on December 29, 2012, 12:49:46 PM
The Blueprint
Reasonable Doubt
The Black Album
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: J. B A N A N A S on December 29, 2012, 05:07:14 PM
the fact that Jay was more piggy-backing Raekwon and Nas, meant That the album offered little in the way of originality.

Respectfully disagree there. The gangsta element Rae and Nas had already capitalized on, no doubt.

I thought this brought more of a gangster point of view to the NY rap scene. Instead of running in niggas cribs with a mac 10 for a robbery, I thought he did a good job at articulating the stress and paranoia, vulnerability if you will that was missing from previous mafioso rap in the early nineties.

Cuban Linx and It Was Written were like two giant circuses filled with violence and grit, while Reasonable Doubt, in my opinion felt like an intimate conversation with a gangster somewhere at the top, looking back at the subject matter in Nas and Rae's worlds.

I'm not saying Reasonable Doubt was a better effort than the other two albums, but to me it is creatively different than them.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Black Excellence on December 29, 2012, 05:16:24 PM
the fact that Jay was more piggy-backing Raekwon and Nas, meant That the album offered little in the way of originality.

Respectfully disagree there. The gangsta element Rae and Nas had already capitalized on, no doubt.

I thought this brought more of a gangster point of view to the NY rap scene. Instead of running in niggas cribs with a mac 10 for a robbery, I thought he did a good job at articulating the stress and paranoia, vulnerability if you will that was missing from previous mafioso rap in the early nineties.

Cuban Linx and It Was Written were like two giant circuses filled with violence and grit, while Reasonable Doubt, in my opinion felt like an intimate conversation with a gangster somewhere at the top, looking back at the subject matter in Nas and Rae's worlds.

I'm not saying Reasonable Doubt was a better effort than the other two albums, but to me it is creatively different than them.
i can agree wit this.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: jeromechickenbone on December 29, 2012, 08:32:40 PM
I agree it's a default answer for people to say Reasonable Doubt is his best. He undoubtedly got better as time went on.

And for the person who said Jay dropped got singles but his albums never matched - you couldn't be farther from the truth. Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

RD is classic, Blueprint is great, black album is his 3rd best and that one is really over rated. 4 really dope songs the rest were disappointing. In my lifetimes series all have some good songs, but the majority of those albums are skippers. Everything after black album is forgettable as hell. Still makes good singles but his albums aren't anything special. N's in Paris and Run this town are great singles and like I said, he's always been good at that.

When you consider his whole discog, the majority of it isn't nearly as good as people make it out to be.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on December 29, 2012, 08:46:46 PM
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on December 30, 2012, 05:05:56 AM
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!

Who tops him? He has 11 albums and 10 of them went number one. Who comes close to that? That's not including his album with Kanye or the ones with R Kelly.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: King Of The Greater Los Angeles Area on December 30, 2012, 01:27:06 PM
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!

Who tops him? He has 11 albums and 10 of them went number one. Who comes close to that? That's not including his album with Kanye or the ones with R Kelly.

weezy f baby
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: J. B A N A N A S on December 30, 2012, 02:34:01 PM
Jay has probably the deepest catalogue in hip hop in terms of both quantity and quality.

lmao PLEASE!

Who tops him? He has 11 albums and 10 of them went number one. Who comes close to that? That's not including his album with Kanye or the ones with R Kelly.

Do we really have to explain to you how sales don't equate with quality in regards to hip hop?

Look, I love Jay's catalog. Saying it's the deepest in both quantity and quality is silly. Tons of rappers have put out way more material, and tons of rappers have put out more high quality records.

That being said, if you feel Jay is the pinnacle of quality in rap, so be it. That's your opinion and no one can take that from you, but you do have to admit that there are others who have done more in the game.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on December 30, 2012, 08:15:19 PM
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 31, 2012, 05:56:14 AM
^^^ even tho he's never been my personal fav i gotta admit.  Jay's track record is amazing
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Blood$ on December 31, 2012, 09:01:41 AM
Jay-Z only has so many #1 albums because he/his label bought a bunch of copies in those first week sales... fact, but I won't go too far into that I don't wanna derail this thread lol
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on December 31, 2012, 09:47:34 AM
Nah i think its safe to say that Jay earned that.  He might've went a little big head claiming GOAT so early but looking back at it i think its safe to say he was right (from a Success point of view)
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on December 31, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: dubsmith_nz on December 31, 2012, 11:27:06 PM
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

You said "done more in the game", out of those names noone has had as much influence as Jay over a 15 year period in hip hop. Jays been responsible for moving the culture in multiple ways, not to mention his label brought us Kanye, State Prop, Dipset, J Cole and he basically gave the game Rihanna.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 01, 2013, 12:13:17 AM
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

You said "done more in the game", out of those names noone has had as much influence as Jay over a 15 year period in hip hop. Jays been responsible for moving the culture in multiple ways, not to mention his label brought us Kanye, State Prop, Dipset, J Cole and he basically gave the game Rihanna.


lol, dont fool yourself. jay-z might be more famous than all of em, but as far as substance goes, his catalogue is far from one of the bests in hip-hop. also, jay-z came in the game as a swagger-jacker ala the game. he's bitten more rhymes than anyone in hip-hop. now, as far as being a business-man/rapper, no one is touching jay, he's currently at the top. but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 01, 2013, 05:07:15 AM
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

Quik came out 5 years before Jay and has 3 less albums than him. Quik has about 3 albums that hold a candle to Jay and that's about it.

Mac Dre, Tech N9ne, C-Bo, Del - I'm sorry they're just not in the same conversation even though I love Bo, Del and Tech. E-40 has a great catalogue, but he's dropped a lot of fluff the last 8 years. Can you honestly say his catalogue matches Jay's? I just don't agree. Your tastes in hip hop appear to be mostly west coast driven with some mid west horror-rap type. That's your forte, but nobody heralds albums from those guys as classics.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 01, 2013, 05:12:11 AM
Pac is my all-time favorite rapper, but only his last 3 of the first 5 (Me Against The World, All Eyez On Me, and Makaveli) top Jay's work. Realistically you can't compare them because Pac died only 5 years active in the game, and now we have Jay-Z on his third decade in the game and still on top.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: bouli77 on January 01, 2013, 06:56:48 AM
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 01, 2013, 01:30:32 PM
Who has done more in the game then? Sales aside, nobody has 11 albums that match his quality. That's not an opinion - there's only a handful of rappers with 11 albums period. Tons of rappers have put out way more material? Who? And if you're counting mixtapes that doesn't count, that's where the watering down happens.

You're talking about a guy that dropped an album every summer for 8 years straight, one of them a double album. Several of them epic with game changing anthems that paved the way for some of the biggest producers of the last decade (Kanye, Just Blaze). Who matches that?

Snoop, Ice Cube, Eminem, Nas? I don't think so. Unless you can name rappers that top his catalogue in both quantity and quality then you've got no backing to what you say.


LOL...this is laughable.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Dre#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tech_n9ne#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nas#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Bo#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_QUIK#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_tha_Funkee_Homosapien#Discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarface_discography

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-40_discography


off top...and yea, even cube, snoop, and eminem can be argued, cuz their classics are better....amongst others. pac's first 5 albums slaughter jay'z first 5....your logic is flawed, jay has a nice catalogue, but he aint sittin on the top. not even close.

Quik came out 5 years before Jay and has 3 less albums than him. Quik has about 3 albums that hold a candle to Jay and that's about it.

Mac Dre, Tech N9ne, C-Bo, Del - I'm sorry they're just not in the same conversation even though I love Bo, Del and Tech. E-40 has a great catalogue, but he's dropped a lot of fluff the last 8 years. Can you honestly say his catalogue matches Jay's? I just don't agree. Your tastes in hip hop appear to be mostly west coast driven with some mid west horror-rap type. That's your forte, but nobody heralds albums from those guys as classics.


Again, Quik's first 5 albums shit on Jay's first 5...quality, not quantity.....Jay-Z is simply more popular, and thats where it ends. Tech N9ne and Del SLAUGHTER Jay when it comes to flat out rapping. C-Bo's shit goes way harder, Mac Dre dropped album after album of straight quality. lastly, if u think they haven't dropped classics and Jay-Z has, then ur just not a hip-hop purist. as a matter of fact, u sound like the typical mainstream hip-hop fan, cud.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: jeromechickenbone on January 01, 2013, 02:28:31 PM
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.

Out of all those albums, he has 1 classic and that was 16 years ago. He's had one great album and a few good ones since. That's it. There are many many artists with much better discogs even if they didn't put out as many.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: dubsmith_nz on January 01, 2013, 02:44:12 PM
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Russell Bell on January 01, 2013, 02:44:53 PM
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 01, 2013, 04:34:18 PM
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.





Jay-Z>>>>>>>>>>>




Juicy J >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 01, 2013, 06:29:00 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: dubsmith_nz on January 01, 2013, 06:36:31 PM
^^^ This guy gets it.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Blood$ on January 01, 2013, 06:37:46 PM
but jay-z is way more influenced by others than others are influenced by him when it comes to flat out emceeing.

exactly !! Jay-Z is an opportunist, he came and took the game by storm (circa 2002) but I wouldn't say his influence on rapping the craft (as opposed to the industry) is overwhelming. that being said he's an amazing businessman (duh), an excellent rapper with a very good penmanship, easily among the very best. but he is no trendsetter, unlike peeps like The WU, Pac, Big, Snoop, Too $hort, The Geto Boys, Eazy-E, E-40, UGK etc. although Jay outlasted most of them.

The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.





Jay-Z>>>>>>>>>>>




Juicy J >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Remedy360 on January 01, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

This, Jay definitely has some great stuff, but I just can't see him in the same light as other great MC's.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on January 01, 2013, 08:51:49 PM
only Jay Z stans will tell you his discog is great


it is what it is...a few dope albums early (Reasonable being the best but Vol 2 had some bangers too) and some heavily over rated records that sold a lot so therefore they must be "classic" or else you should be labeled a Jigga hater lol



I got a lot of Jay songs on my ipod  (more than most rappers) but his entire discography is pretty boring toward the end
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 01, 2013, 09:10:09 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on January 01, 2013, 09:20:11 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.


NIK has always shown love to Necro and Non Phixion
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 01, 2013, 11:41:52 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 02, 2013, 12:17:06 AM
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: LooN3y on January 02, 2013, 12:52:27 AM
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.



almost all those albums are crap.


some have one or two good tracks, some none.

u from brooklyn? i dont know how anyone outside of brooklyn can think his disco is so great, unless they have absolute no knowledge of the rap game.



Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: dubsmith_nz on January 02, 2013, 01:34:26 AM
To sum it up, while rappers may have albums better than some of Jay's, nobody has 11 albums better than Jay's 11 albums.



almost all those albums are crap.


some have one or two good tracks, some none.

u from brooklyn? i dont know how anyone outside of brooklyn can think his disco is so great, unless they have absolute no knowledge of the rap game.





Lol are you serious? You don't get to have longevity in the game if only cats from your hood think you're dope, especially coming from Jays era. The majority of hip hop heads think Jay has at least 3 classics (RD, Blueprint, Black Album) and on other forums I've seen people calling American Gangster a classic, this forum has always been heavily biased towards Jay Z, shit cats probably think Daz has a better discography.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Russell Bell on January 02, 2013, 04:20:40 AM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.



Yeah well rappers say a lot of things, most would quote (INSERT NAME HERE) as their favorite artist if it made them sound "credible" to rap nerds
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Morphine on January 02, 2013, 04:47:30 AM
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

for real . i like some albums but the man is ,if not a straight up biter , a follower
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Russell Bell on January 02, 2013, 04:55:47 AM
Jay having 11 albums doesn't make his discog great and neither does having #1 sales.


This.

And to dude saying Jay Z did so much for the rap game.....which style exactly did Jay Z pioneer?

for real . i like some albums but the man is ,if not a straight up biter , a follower

Yep, i cant think of anything he pioneered.

Im not saying you have to do that to be great, but people acting like hes a trendsetter are just cheerleading.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: bouli77 on January 02, 2013, 09:00:38 AM

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.


it wasn't Jay's idea to push Kanye but Damon Dash... Jay was reportedly very iffy about Kanye as a frontman, same for Cam'ron (who was already an established gold-selling artist), who was Dame's artist, this was just before things started to turn sour between Jay & Dame.

Quote
The fact you think he took the game by storm in 2002 shows you don't know what you're talking about. Jays second album went Platinum, and his biggest album ever was released in '98 (5x Platinum). In 2002 he dropped one of his weakest albums and "retired" the year after lol. Jay is a big reason 3 of the super producers in the game are active (Kanye, Just Blaze and Pharell), and he was one of the first artists to truly embrace the commercial side of the business, clothing labels, vodka, clubs, 360 deals with Live Nation etc, and as I already mentioned, his influence was huge in regards to Dipset, State Prop, Rihanna, Kanye, J Cole all being forces in the game.

Your own personal bias is getting in the way of you seeing facts, I'm not even trying to talk about quality in the music, I'm talking about impact, trends. One of the first to openly rap about Platinum Jewellery, Cristal / Champagne, executive cars, Rapping without writing shit down, Throwback Jerseys (which he eventually threw under the bus and then sales plummeted), he brought the Soul Sound back with the Blueprint, I could go on.

Even if you look at all time lists from multiple magazines, websites, tv shows etc, you're guaranteed to see Jay albums and Singles all over that shit, showing his critical, and commercial success. Majority of successful rappers coming through now cite Jay as an influence. He's obviously not you're cup of tea in re: to his style and sound, but to throw his contribution to the game under the bus is ridiculous and short sighted.

I didn't say he wasn't successful before 2002, and I didn't say that his most successful album wasn't before 2002. 2002 is when he started reaching his current "larger than life" rapper, when he became a household name for people, not just rap fan, not just music fan. when he started fucking Beyoncé, doing shit with Linkin Park, etc.

Pharell didn't blow up because of Jay-Z, he blew up because of Pharell. His sound was never associated with Jay-Z, and he wasn't from Jay's camp. he just happened to produce Jay's shit as he was blowing up, but he was already successful by then. Openly rapping about material things ? it ain't like rappers never boasted about their jewelry before him... most rappers did that shit even though Jay primarily rapped about that when he blew up in 96. You're crediting Jay with too many things homie, it sounds ridiculous sometimes. I have no bias, I love Jay, and I will never belittle or deny his business acumen and his rapping skills, I just don't think he is that much of a trendsetter rapwise (he is businesswise for sure), but he's good at mastering what's catching on at the moment. If you think about it there were mainly 5 moguls in his lane in the late 90's : P, Baby, Diddy, JD & Jay-Z. only 3 of them really lasted, and only Jay really evolved and was the only good rapper out of them.

I never threw his contribution under the bus, I agree with what Nik said

Quote
is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 02, 2013, 11:13:08 AM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: operation stackola on January 02, 2013, 04:08:32 PM
Reasonable Doubt is Jay-Z's best album
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BG Rapsodie on January 03, 2013, 11:36:58 AM
I always liked The Black Album best
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 03, 2013, 03:34:31 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Black Excellence on January 03, 2013, 04:27:00 PM
my fav jay z albums:
kingdom come
the blueprint
reasonable doubt
black album

honorable mention:
blueprint 2
american gangster
in my lifetime vol.1
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 03, 2013, 05:19:35 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.


lmao...thats a joke, if i've ever heard one. the dude who was responsible for the bay's biggest movement isn't a legendary icon? the man who popularized thizz and made a culture of it, hyphy innovator, responsible for half the bay area slang, etc. do u realize what kinda status mac dre is up north? he's literally what 2pac is to euros on this board up in the bay area. he's started way more trends than jay-z. if you walk into rasputin, they got pictures and posters of him everywhere, sell masks of him, bobble-heads, all sorts of shit. u got white girls at raves who listen to tiesto bustin thizz faces because of this guy. artists who never met the guy still use his name to sell their products....that is a legend. if u dont know that by now, brush up on your bay game.

tech n9ne is the biggest artist out of kansas city and basically put that entire city on the map on a national scale. he's the top selling independent artist of all time, and has done tours that puts the rest of the game to shame. he has a loyal following, as opposed to your typical fickle jay-z "flavor of the month" fan...he is an innovator of the machine-gun rapid fire flow, and tons of rappers have patterned their style after him...something u cant really say about jay-z. the guy might not be a global icon, but he put a whole city on the map and innovated a style, something jay-z has never done. legendary.

c-bo is largely responsible for putting sac-town on the map...he's not on the status of mac dre or tech n9ne in terms of popularity, but one could definitely argue he is a hip-hop legend, considering he's a founding father of an entire region and an innovator of mob music, which became a staple sound of norcal rap.


all these rappers have had more impact MUSICALLY than jay-z ever did. true trend-setters, in every sense of the word.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 03, 2013, 07:19:32 PM
im honestly still not convinced or even slightly pursaded that this is Hov's best work.  He's offered us so much more than "Reasonable Doubt"
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Remedy360 on January 03, 2013, 07:47:59 PM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.


 do u realize what kinda status mac dre is up north? he's literally what 2pac is to euros on this board up in the bay area.



LOL, excellent analogy.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: J. B A N A N A S on January 03, 2013, 07:48:27 PM
im honestly still not convinced or even slightly pursaded that this is Hov's best work.  He's offered us so much more than "Reasonable Doubt"

Thing is you don't have to be convinced of anything, it's an opinion and you don't have to be swayed.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 03, 2013, 08:28:46 PM
im honestly still not convinced or even slightly pursaded that this is Hov's best work.  He's offered us so much more than "Reasonable Doubt"

Thing is you don't have to be convinced of anything, it's an opinion and you don't have to be swayed.


True but if its not reality then if i feel then ill call it out.  Theres too many bloggers over the years that've been throwing salt in the game and re-writing history.  Im a purist, its in my nature.


If the title of a thread is "Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?" and i agree or disagree then i have a right to call it out for what it is (see that "Busta's Big Bang" thread).  


Fact of the matter is, RD ISNT Jay's best album.  Its a fact that cant be disputed by true Hip Hop purist and elite like myself.  RD wasnt even all that huge when it first came out.  Ppl from that generation got a little older and outta touch just like any generation does with most of Pop culture (its the natural cycle of life).  When u compare Jay's work to his later work, whether it be Vol. 2, Vol. 3, The Dynasty, The Blueprint, The Blueprint 2.1 or whatever other Jay project u wanna pull from RD isnt even in the top 3.  Maybe its top 4 or 5 but it aint top 3.  


1 of my favorite Jay songs (a couple actually) are on Reasonable Doubt, but as far it being his best body of work overall/hands down, thats just not true
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 03, 2013, 08:46:16 PM
lol this dummy on Bloomberg TV just mentioned Jay-Z.  he tried to throw my man under. 


"when youre 17 you listen to Jay-Z and then when u get older u go to spoken word". 




but then he said 2 minutes later "well my kids started to think i was getting a little boring..."  smh



half of Jay's fans are in their 30's (and even 40's).  Truth be told Jay's starting to get a little ageless
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on January 03, 2013, 10:42:31 PM
The real "fact of the matter" is everyone is entitled to there own opinion.

Truth be told "reasonable doubt" is the only Jay-Z album that I like from him. Yes I listened to his other albums and I don't like them, so I choose to spend my time listening to other albums and artists that I like....

A few posters need to humble themselves quick because the ar coming off bitter in every post they make. RELAX man it's a fucking forum. Or maybe you're forum elitest as well...  

HIP HOP elitist lol thats just as corny as GAY-Z would come off...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px-e1sfmYzo
Title: The real fact of the matter is
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 03, 2013, 10:50:40 PM
"if the shoe fits, wear it"


there really is no real reason why u could argue RD is his best body of work in his catalog and u know that becuz you've never really been into Jay like that (even tho thats still not really a legit reason).  


kinda sounds like youre butthurt to be honest.  you know youre 1 of those types of ppl im talking about.  Its okay, we all cry sometime.  We all speak before we think sometimes, shit happens #fuckit
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on January 03, 2013, 11:06:50 PM
LOL.... I do not to answer to you. Therefore I will enjoy JAY-Z's best album REASONABLE DOUBT. Don't be bitter that THE MAJORITY likes REASONABLE DOUBT over the rest of his catalog...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwNnTjIX8Ds
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 03, 2013, 11:33:26 PM
wait.....  who's the Majority?  if i were to go by those claims then I'd say that the "majority" considers "The Blueprint 1" his best work so that's dead. 


and secondly, prove me that I'm wrong or admit that you're just a "fly by nighter" like Pimp C said before.  Admit that u dont really know shit about Jay-Z.  I wouldnt look at u any less as a person.  I'd just know you're niave and full of shit when you cast your "opinion"
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on January 04, 2013, 12:03:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq6zxaBNpsg

Man my REASONABLE DOUBT cd is going to brought into my ride tomorrow after posting all these AMAZING tracks off his best album. Driving in the snow bumping east coast classics is the shit. man I might as well look for my M.O.P. ~ To The Death Cd as well. Maybe ill kick it old school style grab a boom box and put it on my passenger seat and listen to a cassette or two, then I will be "kickin back layed in tha shade aint nobody trippin cause tha money already made" as Pimp-C would say...


P.S. This thread has been discontinued....
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BIGWORM on January 04, 2013, 12:08:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PdjOUGzF7g

bonus track from my second favorite Jiggazini album...
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 04, 2013, 02:52:51 AM
NIK, you're saying they're legends because they're huge in their region. Insane Clown Posse is huge in their region and several suburban outlets, are they legends?

I love Tech and Bo, like I said. They've had some classics. Never really liked Mac Dre. But just because someone is huge in one region does not mean anything. YG has a big following in LA amongst street heads, but is he gonna go down as a legend? You cannot compare these guys to Jay-Z, it's comparing apples and oranges. Honestly.

Name another rapper who can come out and say Auto tune is dead and it literally drops off the map? Why can't T Pain get work anymore? Why did Kanye drop the auto tune? The rappers you named, Mac Dre in specific, only appeal really to only one audience. If you don't like hyphy music, you damn sure wont like Mac Dre. Jay appeals to just about every audience in the book, and his evolution and track record shows it.

Underground/regional legend does not equal hip hop legend. Otherwise there would be 100's of legends. That's what makes them legends, they are a rare commodity.

Now listen to "Go Stupid" and tell me that compares to "Public Service Announcement," an interlude on an album, hip hop heads.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Remedy360 on January 04, 2013, 11:31:32 AM
NIK, you're saying they're legends because they're huge in their region. Insane Clown Posse is huge in their region and several suburban outlets, are they legends?

I love Tech and Bo, like I said. They've had some classics. Never really liked Mac Dre. But just because someone is huge in one region does not mean anything. YG has a big following in LA amongst street heads, but is he gonna go down as a legend? You cannot compare these guys to Jay-Z, it's comparing apples and oranges. Honestly.

Name another rapper who can come out and say Auto tune is dead and it literally drops off the map? Why can't T Pain get work anymore? Why did Kanye drop the auto tune? The rappers you named, Mac Dre in specific, only appeal really to only one audience. If you don't like hyphy music, you damn sure wont like Mac Dre. Jay appeals to just about every audience in the book, and his evolution and track record shows it.

Underground/regional legend does not equal hip hop legend. Otherwise there would be 100's of legends. That's what makes them legends, they are a rare commodity.

Now listen to "Go Stupid" and tell me that compares to "Public Service Announcement," an interlude on an album, hip hop heads.

Dre's music transcends the Hyphy movement, he's got shit miles ahead of "Get Stupid".
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Blood$ on January 04, 2013, 12:26:48 PM
"Death Of Autotune" was the most overrated and overhyped hip-hop song ever.

other rappers said the same shit before Jay, they just didn't have the million$ to make sure it was shoved down people's throats
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: BiggBoogaBiff on January 04, 2013, 01:17:07 PM
whoa buddy, somebody ban this fagg talkin about Mac Dre was some fuckin overrated under achiever, off with his fuckin head!!


http://www.youtube.com/v/dvEsWaCXHxQ



watch your fuckin mouth faggot.  stop suckin on a hater's dick
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 04, 2013, 02:02:19 PM
NIK, you're saying they're legends because they're huge in their region. Insane Clown Posse is huge in their region and several suburban outlets, are they legends?

I love Tech and Bo, like I said. They've had some classics. Never really liked Mac Dre. But just because someone is huge in one region does not mean anything. YG has a big following in LA amongst street heads, but is he gonna go down as a legend? You cannot compare these guys to Jay-Z, it's comparing apples and oranges. Honestly.

Name another rapper who can come out and say Auto tune is dead and it literally drops off the map? Why can't T Pain get work anymore? Why did Kanye drop the auto tune? The rappers you named, Mac Dre in specific, only appeal really to only one audience. If you don't like hyphy music, you damn sure wont like Mac Dre. Jay appeals to just about every audience in the book, and his evolution and track record shows it.

Underground/regional legend does not equal hip hop legend. Otherwise there would be 100's of legends. That's what makes them legends, they are a rare commodity.

Now listen to "Go Stupid" and tell me that compares to "Public Service Announcement," an interlude on an album, hip hop heads.


lol...u have no clue what ur talkin about, my boy. i'll just address some of the factual errors uv made.. autotune, whle doesn't have the same glamour it had when it first hit the scene, is still as big as ever (http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/apr/07/tom-ewing-auto-tune_) ..more importantly, mac dre didnt do hyphy til the end of his career (you obviously need to brush up on ur bay game)....now go listen to "life's a bitch" and tell me "If you don't like hyphy music, you damn sure wont like Mac Dre"....your entire argument is based off of misinformation. fact of the matter is, jay-z is the most popular artist and best rapper/businessman. in terms of musical substance, there are tons of rappers out there who are way ahead of him. anyways, get in to mac dre, cuz it seems to me like you've missed some essentials.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Black Excellence on January 04, 2013, 05:01:46 PM
what y'all think about eminem becoming a born again christian ?
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 05, 2013, 04:15:20 AM
whoa buddy, somebody ban this fagg talkin about Mac Dre was some fuckin overrated under achiever, off with his fuckin head!!


http://www.youtube.com/v/dvEsWaCXHxQ



watch your fuckin mouth faggot.  stop suckin on a hater's dick

"Fuckin faggot" - yeah, your level of intelligence and ignorance is just screaming through this post. Obviously you are sold that Mac Dre is on the level of Jay-Z - so be it. This is a forum that is for West Coast fans, so that's you're forte.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 05, 2013, 10:42:12 AM
whoa buddy, somebody ban this fagg talkin about Mac Dre was some fuckin overrated under achiever, off with his fuckin head!!


http://www.youtube.com/v/dvEsWaCXHxQ



watch your fuckin mouth faggot.  stop suckin on a hater's dick

"Fuckin faggot" - yeah, your level of intelligence and ignorance is just screaming through this post. Obviously you are sold that Mac Dre is on the level of Jay-Z - so be it. This is a forum that is for West Coast fans, so that's you're forte.



lemme know when jay-z becomes iconic enough to get some of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mac-Dre-FURLS-shoes-SIZE-8-Thizz-Nation-THIZZLE-WASHINGTON-HYPHY-BAY-AREA-in-box-/321048774653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abfff87fd
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 05, 2013, 01:44:17 PM
Um, Jay-Z had S. Carter kicks. Remember? And Mac Dre is dead, so his icon status is going to go higher.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 05, 2013, 02:25:59 PM
Um, Jay-Z had S. Carter kicks. Remember? And Mac Dre is dead, so his icon status is going to go higher.


those kicks are another example of him being a business-man before a rapper...those kicks weren't designed in his image due to his iconic stature ala the mac dre kicks. huge difference.


can u just admit u were wrong about mac dre not being a legend, cuz it's glaringly obvious to everyone else, bro.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 06, 2013, 04:04:03 AM
Ask on another forum, ala Sohh or rapradar, one not limited to Cali fans, and ask if his legend status transcends California. Or if he's even comparable to Jay.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 06, 2013, 05:44:01 PM
Ask on another forum, ala Sohh or rapradar, one not limited to Cali fans, and ask if his legend status transcends California. Or if he's even comparable to Jay.


lol, yea, lets go ask on sohh, the biggest east coast dickriding forum of all time....where they consider lil wayne amongst the goats. cmon, son.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on January 06, 2013, 05:50:38 PM
lol mac dre ain't close to jay z
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 06, 2013, 05:58:09 PM
lol mac dre ain't close to jay z


in terms of popularity, no....but if u dont think mac dre is an icon/legend, then u simply dont know ur shit.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on January 06, 2013, 06:10:35 PM
lol mac dre ain't close to jay z


in terms of popularity, no....but if u dont think mac dre is an icon/legend, then u simply dont know ur shit.

he's a local legend out Cali
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 06, 2013, 07:18:21 PM
lol mac dre ain't close to jay z


in terms of popularity, no....but if u dont think mac dre is an icon/legend, then u simply dont know ur shit.

he's a local legend out Cali


he's a hip-hop legend...period. bay area would not be the same without him.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Hack Wilson - real on January 06, 2013, 08:08:16 PM
lol mac dre ain't close to jay z


in terms of popularity, no....but if u dont think mac dre is an icon/legend, then u simply dont know ur shit.

he's a local legend out Cali


he's a hip-hop legend...period. bay area would not be the same without him.

remember when Nima was interviewing 50 cent about DJ Quik and 50 cent said "DJ Who?"

that's how most rap fans would react to hearing Mac Dre's name sadly
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 06, 2013, 08:21:32 PM
lol mac dre ain't close to jay z


in terms of popularity, no....but if u dont think mac dre is an icon/legend, then u simply dont know ur shit.

he's a local legend out Cali


he's a hip-hop legend...period. bay area would not be the same without him.

remember when Nima was interviewing 50 cent about DJ Quik and 50 cent said "DJ Who?"

that's how most rap fans would react to hearing Mac Dre's name sadly


50 Cent is an idiot, and so is your average rap fan.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: jeromechickenbone on January 08, 2013, 12:35:47 AM
I'm gonna name 8 songs off RD. I challenge anyone saying that he has a better album to put up the best songs from that album and we'll see what's what.

Coming of Age
Regrets
Politics as Usual
Can't knock the hustle
22 2's
Feelin It
Dead Prez 2
Brooklyn's finest

All classic songs. No other album in his catalog is touching it.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Enigma on January 09, 2013, 03:22:29 AM
Idiot or not, if your average hip hop fan doesn't know who you are, you're not qualified to be in the legend category.

Legend: 2Pac, Biggie, Eminem, Snoop, Dre, Nas, Jay-Z, Scarface, Gangstarr, E40, Nate Dogg, Too Short, Wu Tang, Mos Def, even 50 Cent. I'd like to call myself a hip hop enthusiast, and I can't name you more than 3 Mac Dre songs. He reached one demographic, didnt leave a huge imprint on the game, and hyphy was a fad. So much of a fad that it never really crossed over until Lil Jon got involved, and that was only for about a 8 month period.
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Russell Bell on January 09, 2013, 03:33:42 AM
Idiot or not, if your average hip hop fan doesn't know who you are, you're not qualified to be in the legend category.

Legend: 2Pac, Biggie, Eminem, Snoop, Dre, Nas, Jay-Z, Scarface, Gangstarr, E40, Nate Dogg, Too Short, Wu Tang, Mos Def, even 50 Cent. I'd like to call myself a hip hop enthusiast, and I can't name you more than 3 Mac Dre songs. He reached one demographic, didnt leave a huge imprint on the game, and hyphy was a fad. So much of a fad that it never really crossed over until Lil Jon got involved, and that was only for about a 8 month period.

What trend has Jay Z started?

I think i asked this earlier but didnt see you giving a response
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Russell Bell on January 09, 2013, 03:35:01 AM
NIK, I'm far from a mainstream hip hop head. Quik had some amazing albums. Safe + Sound and Rhythmalism are pure classics. But to say his first 5 SHIT on Jay's first 5, really?

It's a matter of sound. I've never seen you give props to NY rap and your favorites have always been Cali based, which is fine. But I'm very well rounded.

My current faves? I was digging Kendrick way before Aftermath, I love Fashawn, Evidence, I loved J Cole before he blew up, I loved Strong Arm Steady's shit with Madlib, I love Freddie Gibbs, Action Bronson, Dom Kennedy, Big KRIT (who could be on legend status one day), ScHoolBoy Q, ASAP Rocky, loved Big Sean prior to his blow up - I breathe hip hop man. Cormega's "The Realness" was one of my favorite albums of the 2000's. Joe Budden is one of the best emcees in the game period. Jadakiss is and always has been one of the most underrated. I breathe hip hop man, you can't put me in a mainstream box.

But Jay Z transcends "mainstream vs underground." Say what you want about Jay's flow, he has been a trendsetter in several other ways. He takes any producer and spits venom on their tracks - he got DJ Quik to step way outside his box on Black Album and ripped it. You wouldn't know who Kanye and Just Blaze are if it wasn't for him handpicking them to produce his shit. Cam'ron would have still been riding Mase's coattail if it wasn't for him. NY would have fallen off the map with Puffy if Jay didn't step in.

Those rappers you named are just poor comparisons. Not one of them, except maybe Quik, are truly on legend status.


this makes no sense. i had nas in there. pretty sure nas is from NY. as for "you wouldn't know who kanye was if it wasnt for jay-z"...well, thats fine and all, but we wouldnt know who jay-z was if it wasn't for jaz-o...does that make jaz-o an all time great too? naah. jay-z has a nice discography, don't get me wrong, but to claim theres no one out there touching his catalogue is simply off. and lol@nas, scarface, mac dre, e40 not being hip-hop legends. smh.. even tech n9ne is more of a trendsetter than jay-z in terms of flat out emceeing. you gotta rethink ur stance on hip-hop, my dude. is jay-z a global icon? yes. did he branch out to other businesses using hip-hop as an outlet? yes. does that mean his quality in terms of music tops other legends (most of whom he was influenced by)? hell naah. and thats what it comes down to.

I honestly didn't notice Scarface in your list, but yes he definitely is a legend. His discography still doesn't compare to Jay-Z's. And would you really put Nas in there if I hadn't mentioned him earlier when saying that him, Em, Snoop, and Cube aren't on his level?

Read interviews man, most rappers cite Jay-Z as their favorite or one of their favorites.


lol...rappers respect jay-z cuz of his hustle, more so than his rapping skills. and smh@"would you really put nas in there?"...i'm a hip-hop head first, bud. i named you some legendary icons and u claim they're not legends, while putting jay-z on a pedestal. shame on u.

I'm sorry but Mac Dre, Tech N9ne and C-Bo are not legendary icons and whatever the circle of hop hop anyone is talking about, their names do not get mentioned in the same breath as Jay-Z, sorry. And I know you'll come back and say Dre is an icon, but he's not. Rest in Peace to him, but if he didn't die, half of hip hop heads wouldn't know who he is. His music was not impactful other than the Bay Area while he was alive.


 do u realize what kinda status mac dre is up north? he's literally what 2pac is to euros on this board up in the bay area.



LOL, excellent analogy.

lol i missed that 1, pretty spot on
Title: Re: Reasonable Doubt is easily Jay-Z's best album. Anyone disagree?
Post by: Sccit on January 09, 2013, 12:52:21 PM
Idiot or not, if your average hip hop fan doesn't know who you are, you're not qualified to be in the legend category.

Legend: 2Pac, Biggie, Eminem, Snoop, Dre, Nas, Jay-Z, Scarface, Gangstarr, E40, Nate Dogg, Too Short, Wu Tang, Mos Def, even 50 Cent. I'd like to call myself a hip hop enthusiast, and I can't name you more than 3 Mac Dre songs. He reached one demographic, didnt leave a huge imprint on the game, and hyphy was a fad. So much of a fad that it never really crossed over until Lil Jon got involved, and that was only for about a 8 month period.

lol...based on what ur saying, mac miller and machine gun kelly are bigger hip-hop legends than mac dre. it's complete bullshit...most basketball fans don't know who gail goodrich is, doesn't mean son wasn't a legend. popularity does not dictate how much of a dent you've put in the game. the fact that you can't name more than 3 mac dre songs and previously claimed "only people who love hyphy can feel mac dre" just goes to show ur ignorance on the topic, and means to me u definitely have to brush up on your hip-hop history if u wanna call urself a hip-hop enthusiast, cuz ur missing out on a pioneer of an entire region...no hard feelings, brobro. just tellin it like it is. mac dre is a lot more important than u were led to believe. and contrary to what u claimed, he also reached out to MANY different demographics, probably more so than any other rapper. mac dre was beloved by gangstas, nerds, skakters, backpackers, real emcees, ravers, rockers, commercial fans, club-goers, underground heads, hyphy fans, white girls, asian girls, blasian girls........this is a guy who made music for everyone. but then again, u said it urself, u can only name 3 mac dre songs, which goes to show that u actually really dont have a place speakin on the topic, my dude.