West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on February 12, 2013, 02:47:25 PM
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This argument was posed in the TOT but I copied and pasted it here so that it could be discussed in a music section of the forum. Rappers and fans always blame guys like Jimmy Iovine and the nefarious "CORPORATE MACHINE" but have rappers really fared any better going independent. Here's what I wrote..
But yeah, great documentary on how Hip-Hop has been subverted by the power structure.
And the role of consumers and artists when they subdue to that power structure and act accordingly.
Yeah.. blame the corporate machine but when artists go independent the quality of music almost always gets worse. I have many examples of this...
Xzibit - His 3 classic albums all came when he was signed to the major.
Mos Def- After Rawkus records folded Mos went independent and all his albums since have failed to make an impression
Talib Kweli- Same as Mos Def
Canibus- His first two albums with Universal were fucking sick!!! Then he lost his deal and started manufacturing "stan" beef with Eminem and his career fell so hard he joined the military.
Daz Dillinger- Everything Daz did over at Death Row was fire. From his first verse he did on the Chronic to his last solo with Revenge Retaliation and Get Back this dude was a legend... then he went independent and faded out from there.
Kurupt- Everything he did at Death Row was fire, and although his first solo wasn't great, his second and third solo's were dope... but since going independent this dude is said to have fallen off worse than any other West Coast artist.
Ice Cube- Used to always put out quality records on majors and now I never even bothered checking out his independent releases.
...I could go on forever
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This argument was posed in the TOT but I copied and pasted it here so that it could be discussed in a music section of the forum. Rappers and fans always blame guys like Jimmy Iovine and the nefarious "CORPORATE MACHINE" but have rappers really fared any better going independent. Here's what I wrote..
But yeah, great documentary on how Hip-Hop has been subverted by the power structure.
And the role of consumers and artists when they subdue to that power structure and act accordingly.
Yeah.. blame the corporate machine but when artists go independent the quality of music almost always gets worse. I have many examples of this...
Xzibit - His 3 classic albums all came when he was signed to the major.
Mos Def- After Rawkus records folded Mos went independent and all his albums since have failed to make an impression
Talib Kweli- Same as Mos Def
Canibus- His first two albums with Universal were fucking sick!!! Then he lost his deal and started manufacturing "stan" beef with Eminem and his career fell so hard he joined the military.
Daz Dillinger- Everything Daz did over at Death Row was fire. From his first verse he did on the Chronic to his last solo with Revenge Retaliation and Get Back this dude was a legend... then he went independent and faded out from there.
Kurupt- Everything he did at Death Row was fire, and although his first solo wasn't great, his second and third solo's were dope... but since going independent this dude is said to have fallen off worse than any other West Coast artist.
Ice Cube- Used to always put out quality records on majors and now I never even bothered checking out his independent releases.
...I could go on forever
i agree wit this post. i think it depends on the artist and how much they value quality.
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i agree wit this post. i think it depends on the artist and how much they value quality.
Right.. and they always blame the corporate machine for supposedly telling them what they should write about and not giving them control over their art. But look at the case of Dead Prez.
Their first album on Columbia/Loud Records was all about revolutionary concepts. It was the best album they ever did. Their next album came out independent and it was less controversial and was a huge flop, both commercially and artistically.
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i agree wit this post. i think it depends on the artist and how much they value quality.
Right.. and they always blame the corporate machine for supposedly telling them what they should write about and not giving them control over their art. But look at the case of Dead Prez.
Their first album on Columbia/Loud Records was all about revolutionary concepts. It was the best album they ever did. Their next album came out independent and it was less controversial and was a huge flop, both commercially and artistically.
muthafuckas concentrate on tryin' appease a mainstream audience and doin' what's current instead of stayin' true to what they do and that's where they fuck up at ten times outta ten.
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Hip-Hop was pretty fucked from the start.
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Ain't enough real artists/industry professionals in the game
You could divide into real MC's, fakes, entrepreneurs, real artists, creatives, industry pros and slackers LOL
You can put any tight MC over good production and make a dope record, but those guys don't drive the industry
Real artist ---> DJ Quik
Real artist ---> The Roots
Real artist ---> 2Pac
Real artist ---> Lady of Rage
Real artist ---> Beastie Boys
Real artist ---> Nas
Real artist ---> Outkast
Real artist ---> Tricky
Real artist ---> Nate Dogg (was cursed by his Snoop association)
Real artist ---> Cee-Lo Green (he's a faggy diva though)
Real artist ---> DJ Muggs
Real artist ---> DJ Crazy Toones
and even
Real artist ---> Fugees (but they fucked it up)
Real artist ---> Warren G (needs label money behind him)
etc etc
Industry pro ---> Dr. Dre
Industry pro ---> D.O.C.
Industry pro ---> Battlecat
Industry pro ---> Jazze Pha
Industry pro ---> WC
Industry pro ---> T.I.
Industry pro ---> E-40
Industry pro ---> Brotha Lynch Hung
Industry pro ---> LT Hutton
Industry pro ---> DJ Pooh
Industry pro ---> Eazy-E
Industry pro ---> Kanye West
Industry pro ---> Jay-Z
Industry pro ---> Xzibit
Industry pro ---> Missy Elliott
etc etc
You could list a million real MC's. Dudes are just frontmen at the end of the day. Snoop I'm talking bout you.
Examples of creatives that you wanna have on your team Roscoe, RBX, Kam and the now mega star Ice Cube. These are basically writer MC's.
But its the real artists and pros that keep the industry afloat, not this years favourite spitter or hoodlum
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Universal fucked the game up the moment they signed Nelly in 2000
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Universal fucked the game up the moment they signed Nelly in 2000
no,they did not hater . get off nelly's dick & get a life loser . keep nelly's name out your mouth,mitch . the game was fucked up because of biggie,puffy & cash money before nelly was even around . nelly is the new school ll cool j & ll cool j is a goat . the bling bling crap that biggie, puffy , & cash money rapped about is what killed hip hop & made it trash . hip hop was already in trouble by 1997 not 2000.
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nelly is the new school ll cool j & ll cool j is a goat .
Go kill yourself and everyone you love, you are a waste of anything this universe has to offer. Except ending your life.
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Universal fucked the game up the moment they signed Nelly in 2000
no,they did not hater . get off nelly's dick & get a life loser . keep nelly's name out your mouth,mitch . the game was fucked up because of biggie,puffy & cash money before nelly was even around . nelly is the new school ll cool j & ll cool j is a goat . the bling bling crap that biggie, puffy , & cash money rapped about is what killed hip hop & made it trash . hip hop was already in trouble by 1997 not 2000.
my name isn't Mitch, youngin lol trying to act like you know me... and even sadder acting as if you know hip-hop
so Ready To Die and Life After Death killed hip-hop but Country Grammer saved it? FOH
and Birdman > Nelly anyway
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Birdman is pretty equal to Nelly.
Given how much money/stuff they've taken from humanity and what they've given us, it's still an extremely fucked up world.
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Birdman has way more juice than Nelly could ever wish for...at least dude gave us classic albums from B.G., Juvenile, etc. and he regularly gives back to his hood unlike Nelly who sold out... what did he give anybody besides a wack rap group where two members wear halloween masks and "Hot In Herre" ?
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I don't blame major labels for Hip-Hop being fucked up, I blame the massive mergers in the late 90's and early 2000's as the reason. I wrote Junkyards about it back on WCKillaz. A few labels I like to point out:
Def Jam of course, which was owned 50% by Russell and 50% owned by Sony. This allowed Russell to control the label with Sony's money, but eventually Sony's half changed hands a few times and eventually in 1998 Universal bought that half and then Russell's half all in one year.
Jive was an interesting case, as they were independent and the had a great roster, Whodini, DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince, E-40, A Tribe Called Quest, KRS-One/Boogie Down Productions, and R&B acts R. Kelly and Aaliyah. Eventually they were bought off by Sony/BMG and signed Britney Spears and Backstreet Boys.
Priority was of course a great west coast label, beyond the NWA family it also house Rap-A-Lot, Wu Tang Records and Ice T. In 1996 half was bought off by EMI (at the time Sony) and in 1998 EMI bought the other half. Then by 2004 Priority stopped functioning and now current owners of the title Priority, Universal, is trying to bring the label back and have it like a westcoast Def Jam.
My main thing is keeping some control out of major label hands. Like when Russell still controlled Def Jam, I think that was GREAT! Sony had the capital and they let Russell Simmons do what he needed to do to make Def Jam great. Interscope (once owned by Warner Bros. then later Universal) and it's relationship with Death Row and later Aftermath. They let the labels control the music and they knew they'd make money. Big label money is important, but it's also important that big labels keep the creative piece to the smaller labels and artist. I hear jokes that every artist is trying to be their own record label. That's GREAT. Keep it up, if artist have partnership with big labels, then you have creative people with the equipment to expand.
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I have no problem with Birdman swallowing juice. He can drink all the cum on the planet, as long as it's not mine.
Getting The D.O.C. to say his name on a version of one song is about the only positive thing he appears to have contributed to the Planet.
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I have no problem with Birdman swallowing juice. He can drink all the cum on the planet, as long as it's not mine.
what the fuck ??? :-[
you're starting to sound faggy like wannabeamidwestryder... be careful
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Brian, all the albums you named were made in the 90's when that sound was what sold records. You said, you can "go on forever". I'd like to see you try. From like 2005-present they reached out to the females & the club scene & still do. Not to mention the "pop" side of it. It's all major induced; but whatever. There's music to be heard even if it isn't from a major label.
Y'all gotta stop being close minded & just bump it all. What you guys do is the same as like currently hating the NBA because there's no MJ anymore. Like just shutup & enjoy the Kobe, LeBron & Durant's of Hip Hop & realize it's the same game being played as it was then.