West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Damon X from ATL on April 08, 2003, 02:04:32 PM
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How blacks view the war
By Dorothy Korber -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 a.m. PDT Monday, April 7, 2003
On April 4, 1967, a year to the day before his death, Martin Luther King Jr. took the pulpit at Riverside Church in New York City and made a passionate plea for peace.
King recognized the ambiguity surrounding the agonizing conflict in Vietnam. And he conceded that some would criticize him for diverting his attention from the civil rights struggle in the United States.
But, King argued, social justice at home and peace abroad are inextricably linked -- a link many African Americans cite today to explain their own opposition to the U.S. action in Iraq.
And that opposition is significant: Seventy percent of African Americans oppose the war in Iraq, at a time when 70 percent of Americans overall favor it, according to a national Gallup poll conducted March 22-25.
But black perspectives on the Iraq war are complex, with nuances that defy bumper-sticker slogans. Another statistic helps tell the story:
African Americans account for 23 percent of U.S. enlisted troops, nearly double their proportion in the general population. Some contend that black youths enlist because their options are few. But others take tremendous pride in their community's tradition of wartime service and the opportunity the military has afforded.
"Historically, the black community is very patriotic and loyal," said Faye Kennedy of the Sacramento Area Black Caucus. "One reason we have not seen a lot of black people at peace rallies is because of that internal conflict. We all know that it's through military service that the black middle class evolved and were able to buy homes and get jobs and education."
Kennedy herself has no internal conflict. She opposes the war with Iraq and is co-founder of a new anti-war coalition in Sacramento, the African/Black United Front for Peace and Social Justice. The group's long name reflects its broad agenda: affordable housing, accessible health care, education, jobs, environmental protection -- all linked to opposing war.
Kennedy is among those who say the sizable opposition to the war among African Americans stems from their concerns about the expense and consequences of a prolonged conflict -- and by their skepticism toward the Bush administration and government in general.
"The difference is quite simply the feeling among blacks that this war is a diversion of America's resources," said Clarence Walker, a professor at the University of California, Davis. His specialties are black history and race relations. "There is great economic distress among blacks in this country, and there is great distrust of the president.
"No one can deny the patriotism of black people in the United States -- they've served bravely in many wars. But the relationship between blacks and the government has been tortured. Their history gives them a point of view that makes them less accepting of everything the government has to say."
On that April day 36 years ago, King summed up his own thinking on war: "I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as adventures like Vietnam continued to drain men and skills and money like some demonic, destructive suction tube."
Three decades later, David De Luz, president of the NAACP's Sacramento chapter, echoes that strain when talking about Iraq. De Luz criticized the Bush administration for spending billions on liberating Iraq when the needs are so great at home.
"They're asking for $75 billion to do this first stage of the war, and who knows how many more billions will be required," he said. "Meanwhile, 41 million Americans don't have health insurance, we have kids who can't read and write, we have young folks whose only options are the military or the streets."
At the same time, he said he recognizes the proud tradition and deep involvement of African Americans in the military. The NAACP's official position on the conflict -- support the warriors, oppose the war -- reflects that ambivalence.
"It's an interesting position we find ourselves in," De Luz reflected. "Public opinion among African Americans is really split.
"Our family and friends and loved ones are over there risking their lives for American public policy. We have to be vigilant in supporting people who are over there out of obligation, duty and honor -- while exercising our constitutional right to disagree with the public policy that sent them there."
Though black opposition to the war is widespread, still the Gallup poll found that three out of 10 African Americans endorse the action in Iraq.
Ken Barnes, a Sacramento businessman who says he is "as black as they come," feels pride when he thinks about the sacrifice of African American soldiers who fought and died for their country.
"I support the war in Iraq 100 percent," he said. "I think it's a necessary evil. It's a method of rooting out the core of terrorism. As for the cost, it's a drop in the bucket compared to the alternative. How much would you have paid to avert 9/11?"
Barnes, who is 32, said many members of his family have served in the military and that some are on active duty now.
"These people served with pride, not because they had to but because they wanted to," he said.
J.C. Terry of Sacramento, a Purple Heart veteran of the Vietnam War, says he would join up again in a heartbeat.
"I spent my time in Vietnam in 1970 -- I was a U.S. Army Ranger paratrooper," said Terry, who is 52. "My opinion of peace protesters is they wouldn't even be allowed to protest if the military didn't protect their rights. Yet, when we came home from Vietnam, there was no one to greet us. That's the thanks the military gets."
Terry said he doubts that the Iraq war will drain dollars from social programs at home. And he isn't overly concerned that a disproportionate number of African Americans serve in the armed forces.
"As for blacks in the military -- it's a matter of choice," he said. "It's all-volunteer these days, that's the way I look at it. They don't have to go."
Sacramento resident Aeisha Jones questions how much of a choice it really is. Jones, a member of the new anti-war coalition, said the lack of economic opportunity is a driving force for many enlistees. She recounted a recent television interview in which the reporter spoke with an injured black soldier from his hospital bed.
"The reporter asked the soldier why he enlisted in the military, obviously expecting some kind of patriotic answer," said Jones, a black woman in her 50s. "But the answer he got was, 'I enlisted to pay off my student loans.' That kind of summed it all up for me. That's the economic reality."
Ahjamu Umi, who heads the All-African People's Revolutionary Party in Sacramento, sees U.S. troops -- of any race -- as pawns of American capitalism.
"Life is about making decisions, especially when you're talking about killing people," said Umi, who co-founded the new coalition with Kennedy. "I truly believe this: When people decide to go invade another country, I don't support them. It's a bad decision they made. I don't want them to be hurt, but they're putting themselves in harm's way."
Within the black community, as in American society as a whole, the debate about the war can be bruising.
But sociologist Bruce Haynes, an expert in race relations and an African American, wonders if it might become a catalyst for new activism.
"These black groups organizing around the issues of peace and war could reflect something new and significant," the professor said. "This has the potential to rekindle the themes of Martin Luther King."
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Shut the fuck up with this AmeriKKKa shit, real annoying when you have no idea how racism is at the U.S, very MINIMAL.
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Shut the fuck up with this AmeriKKKa shit, real annoying when you have no idea how racism is at the U.S, very MINIMAL.
Well of course an individual who can't debate logically, with limited knowledge, would find this thread annoying. And if honestly think/believe that racism here in ameriKKKa is "minimal", then you are truly illiterate and it wouldn't be worth debating with you, since you lack the most important tool for a debate and that's "common sense."
Oh and if you don't understand what I just said, then to follow your own juvenile language.........."shut the fuck up", lil dude. ;)
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Shut the fuck up with this AmeriKKKa shit, real annoying when you have no idea how racism is at the U.S, very MINIMAL.
Well of course an individual who can't debate logically, with limited knowledge, would find this thread annoying. And if honestly think/believe that racism here in ameriKKKa is "minimal", then you are truly illiterate and it wouldn't be worth debating with you, since you lack the most important tool for a debate and that's "common sense."
I actually agree with him. The United States is actually one of the least racist countries in the world. We are a very tolerant nation.
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Shut the fuck up with this AmeriKKKa shit, real annoying when you have no idea how racism is at the U.S, very MINIMAL.
Well of course an individual who can't debate logically, with limited knowledge, would find this thread annoying. And if honestly think/believe that racism here in ameriKKKa is "minimal", then you are truly illiterate and it wouldn't be worth debating with you, since you lack the most important tool for a debate and that's "common sense."
I actually agree with him. The United States is actually one of the last racist countries in the world. We are a very tolerant nation.
cgimmick187, your jokes are gettin boring...
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I actually agree with him. The United States is actually one of the least racist countries in the world. We are a very tolerant nation.
That doesn't surprise me since you don't know what's like to be an African in Amerikkka. Typical response from a Caucasian individual raised and bred on World White Supremacy. ::)
Black Amerikkka is more than watching Roots, Amistad, Boyz N The Hood, and listening to Hip-Hop, dude.
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All I know is that I don't see any black people trying to leave this country. In fact, I see Haitians and Africans fighting like hell to get here.
God bless America.
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God bless America.
but he won't. god doesn't like fanatics.
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All I know is that I don't see any black people trying to leave this country. In fact, I see Haitians and Africans fighting like hell to get here.
God bless America.
Why should we leave a country that:
1. We built from the ground up and have more ownership to (with the exception of The Native Americans), then your ancestors who were nothing but whores, thieves, and other social deviants from Europe. Oh and let's not forget responsible for the introduction of many diseases (under the guise of Biological genocide) that killed of many of the aborginals of this country.
2. I have more of a right to be here, than you have Walker. Remember that, I know O State is a school of higher learning, not just winning the Fiesta Bowl.
3. And Amerikkka's ecomonic occupation of Haiti, many African nations, is well known and they have made money off of Africa's natural resources. Matter of fact, with that being the case, Africans and Haitians have more of a right to be here then you and your Anglo-Saxon ass.
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No one is making African AmerCANS stay in AmeriCA...if they feel there is racism surrouding them...the back door is wide open.
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No one is making African AmerCANS stay in AmeriCA...if they feel there is racism surrouding them...the back door is wide open.
the same can be said of you and your ethnic background. AmeriKKKa belongs to the Native Americans first and foremost, and Africans here in Amerikkka. Without us, the chances of your family immigrating here would be null and void. Stick to listening to Hip-Hop, this forum is too advanced for you, son.
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all i can say is if you hate it here in america pack your bags and leave,there are plenty of people in other countries that would be glad to take your place in this country and personally im tired of hearing you ignorant people bitching about racism in america,considering racism is everywhere and will be everywhere you go
simple as that
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all i can say is if you hate it here in america pack your bags and leave,there are plenty of people in other countries that would be glad to take your place in this country and personally im tired of hearing you ignorant people bitching about racism in america,considering racism is everywhere and will be everywhere you go
simple as that
WHITE POWER!!!!
Easy for those who benefit (even when they don't know it) from such overt racist practices. And like I said my people have more to claim in this country, then you do.
Keep Jumpin that Pale Ass Around, Everlast ::)
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yes,white power
100% white 100% power
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Why should we leave a country that:
1. We built from the ground up and have more ownership to (with the exception of The Native Americans), then your ancestors who were nothing but whores, thieves, and other social deviants from Europe. Oh and let's not forget responsible for the introduction of many diseases (under the guise of Biological genocide) that killed of many of the aborginals of this country.
2. I have more of a right to be here, than you have Walker. Remember that, I know O State is a school of higher learning, not just winning the Fiesta Bowl.
3. And Amerikkka's ecomonic occupation of Haiti, many African nations, is well known and they have made money off of Africa's natural resources. Matter of fact, with that being the case, Africans and Haitians have more of a right to be here then you and your Anglo-Saxon ass.
You are so incredibly stupid. Why don't you address what I said in my post.
People don't sit back and let others oppress them. If they have free will they will probably try to flee that oppression. And they certainly don't pack up and move to a country where they will experience oppression, they way millions of immigrants come to America. The fact that millions of people of every race, nationality, and religion come to America to live is proof enough that America is a tolerant, non-racist nation.
Do you think that a country like Japan would let millions and millions of Mexicans or Africans move to their country? Do you thik a country like Saudi Arabia would let millions and millions of Christians move to their country? Of course not......and that is what makes the United States a great place.
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Am I the only one who sees the hypocracy in all these kids saying 'The US is a free and completely non-racist state' and then saying if Blacks don't like it they should go back to Africa? WTF???
Thats the problem, okay the racism might not be as obvious as it was fifty-sixty years ago and more, but it's still there in a more covert and institutional way. And all the Cwalkers and his ilk whose daddies have talked bad about Blacks and minorities pick it up and pass it on.
Shit Im just a whiteboy from England, but I've lived in the US for a little while and its pretty fuckin obvious from what I've seen that its still a problem.
And Cwalker what the hell are you talking about the US 'lets' mexicans and Africans into their country. Half the fucking south used to be Mexico! The original Africans were brought there against their will! For someone who claims to love America so much, you're pretty fucking ignorant of its history aren't you.
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Sure racism didnt go away over night, but from the 60's-early 80's the thought of racism has drastically changed to a minimal value. Criticize all you want, Your limited knowledge is based on others views and simply ignorance. Like I said once and Will say again, if ANYBODY does feel racism is a huge issue on their lives...simply leave, There are many countries who are racist yet you choose to hate on U.S. like everyone else...coward
AmeriCA, get it right
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if ANYBODY does feel racism is a huge issue on their lives...simply leave
Proving Loc's point
You just said that if any minority in America is suffering from racism then they should leave
Pretty racist huh
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america is still the only country where a man driving a ferarri may be pulled over by the police because of his ethnic background....
please correct me if im wrong....
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I think you are
Black people get pulled over in this country if the police are looking for a black person
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How Iraqi's view the war:
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030409/capt.1049901490.war_us_iraq_northern_front_sulf102.jpg)
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I think you are
Black people get pulled over in this country if the police are looking for a black person
so if their looking for a white man, any white man may/will be pulled over??...
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I dunno, i guess if they fit the description
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I dunno, i guess if they fit the description
so you dont agree when i claim that black men gets MUCH more pull overs when driving a fancy car compared to white men...??... is that really your opinion??
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I dunno, i guess if they fit the description
so you dont agree when i claim that black men gets MUCH more pull overs when driving a fancy car compared to white men...??... is that really your opinion??
Ive only seen that happen in Fresh Prince of Bel-Air ::) ...come with some stats to prove whatever BS ur trying to say
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Where is Amerikkka? I still cant find it on my map...
I-Bo, more black people get pulled over because more black people commit crimes...It's fuckin common sense man...Same with Hispanics too...About 2 days ago, I got all my money jacked...I was 100% sure it was either a black guy or a Hispanic guy...Guess what, I found the person who jacked me, and he was black...That's all there is to it...PeACe
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Where is Amerikkka? I still cant find it on my map...
I-Bo, more black people get pulled over because more black people commit crimes...It's fuckin common sense man...Same with Hispanics too...About 2 days ago, I got all my money jacked...I was 100% sure it was either a black guy or a Hispanic guy...Guess what, I found the person who jacked me, and he was black...That's all there is to it...PeACe
check the thread damon x made... all the facts are there
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How Iraqi's view the war:
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030409/capt.1049901490.war_us_iraq_northern_front_sulf102.jpg)
^^yo Bush is really likin' that kiss....
does that mean ??? :o ;D
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damon is paranoid...blames all his problems on racial issues and therefore will never get anywhere
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*Damon breaks his leg*
Damon shouts:
DAMNIT!!! The white man did this to me!!! A cracka designed these shoes, I'm 100% sure!!! I am going to take action now and kill all the crackas in the world, for the white man is the devil!!!
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*Damon breaks his leg*
Damon shouts:
DAMNIT!!! The white man did this to me!!! A cracka designed these shoes, I'm 100% sure!!! I am going to take action now and kill all the crackas in the world, for the white man is the devil!!!
No, not yet...hmmmmm(Ibo style)....first step is to kill da crackaz in ameriKKKa ;)
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*Damon breaks his leg*
Damon shouts:
DAMNIT!!! The white man did this to me!!! A cracka designed these shoes, I'm 100% sure!!! I am going to take action now and kill all the crackas in the world, for the white man is the devil!!!
No, not yet...hmmmmm(Ibo style)....first step is to kill da crackaz in ameriKKKa ;)
hey you... dont steal my shit :o
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Am I the only one who sees the hypocracy in all these kids saying 'The US is a free and completely non-racist state' and then saying if Blacks don't like it they should go back to Africa? WTF???
If someone doesn't like the country where they are living, then they should leave. I don't see how that is racist, it is actually common sense.
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Am I the only one who sees the hypocracy in all these kids saying 'The US is a free and completely non-racist state' and then saying if Blacks don't like it they should go back to Africa? WTF???
If someone doesn't like the country where they are living, then they should leave. I don't see how that is racist, it is actually common sense.
exactly,if you hate the country then go find one you like and have no problems with (good luck finding one)
and thats not racist at all
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Fact is in regards to the lunacy of MC Similac and Crippled Walker, that Africans and The Native Americans have more to this land to any Caucasians. This nation was built on theft, genocide, and enslavement which is oppression. So we (Africans and Native Americans) have more than the right to speak on the immoral nature of this nation. In fact I'm sure if we were to go back to Africa, YOUR relatives would have to go to what ever country from which the emancipated themselves, so that "go back to Africa" holds no weight whatsoever, you don't like what I or others have to say, DEAL WITH IT OR DON'T READ OR REPLY TO THE THREAD.
also in regards to Similac Child aka Whitey, since you love Everlast and House Of Pain so much, I suggest to carefully listen to H.O.P.'s first album and listen to Everlast's lyrics when he gives insight to The Masonic Order and The Nation Of Islam and how they enlightened him with knowledge of a historical account of European ancestory. I can't remember the song, butit might of been Life Goes On or House Of The Rising Son. I know because you are 15 and most teenagers think they know everything, you have a monopoly on something, but since you don't shit and still going thru puberty, you should take a backseat and start learning instead of thinking you know everything, a la' Madame C Walker.
Again, you "claim to like Hip-Hop", but you honestly have no idea what you are listening to or the context your favorite "cool black mc's" are rapping about. So to fully LIKE and appreciate this culture, one would study all aspects of the culture and why "so many black guys are so mad." ???
"AMERIKKKA, LAND OF SLAVE AND HOME OF THE NEVER FREE" Paris
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you need to stop living in the past
and i dont know everything and neither do you or anyone else here
if you dont like my views just say so and move on,theres no need to bring my age or personal taste in music into the discussion,just accept the fact that someone has different views and move on