West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: westcoastcavalier on April 11, 2003, 11:45:34 AM
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A Replay of Israel’s Lebanon Adventure?
Dr. Mohammad T. Al-Rasheed, comments@d-corner.com
JEDDAH, 11 April 2003 — Twenty years ago, the Israeli Army rolled into Beirut promising their people liberation from the PLO threat and their Lebanese allies victory in the raging civil war. In the event, none of the promises made were kept. I was a high school student then caught in the mayhem and not able to find a way back home. I will never forget the sight of Israeli soldiers riding their tanks into the fashionable Hamra district. The soldiers sauntered on both sides of the rumbling machines, stopped at famous cafes like Modka, and ordered the famous Austrian chocolate blend. They offered to pay in shekels, but the waiter refused their money. They were the victors and Beirut was the first Arab capital to fall after independence.
West Beirut at the time was indeed under the yoke of the PLO, which had set up a state within a state. I remember queuing for hours at the local PLO office to get a coupon that would allow me to buy two pounds of sugar at exorbitant prices. I thought it humiliating to have to go through the madness and never liked sugar since. To this day, I pass on the dessert.
There was a sense of doom pervading the city. This was strange since we had been there under shelling from civil war combatants for over two years and one more army marching through should have been par for the course.
It wasn’t. Most of us, perhaps because we did not fully understand the implications, tried to live with it. Khalil Hawi, the prominent Arab poet of the day, committed suicide before the Israelis reached his block of buildings about a mile down from where we were. He was an elderly man then and was not in fighting form. By refusing to live under occupation, he did manage to put us all to shame to this day.
The Israelis stayed long enough to mastermind the Sabra and Shatila massacre. They expelled Arafat and forced the Lebanese to sign a separate treaty with them -- what is called the May Accord. The word about the massacre managed to make it into the open. Hezbollah replaced Arafat, and the president who promised them complete access was assassinated. In the end, they achieved nothing more than littering the streets of that beautiful city with dead, mutilated, and severely scarred humanity.
Today, Baghdad becomes the second Arab capital to be “occupied” by its “liberators”. When I watch what is going on, I have flashbacks to those long gone days. The uniforms are exactly the same, the armaments are identical, the declared aims are a carbon copy of each other: Security, liberty, peace, independence. The Israelis wanted to “liberate” the Lebanese from the Palestinians and the Syrians, the Americans had the Baath in their sight. The Israelis wanted to bring security to their northern border; the Americans want to bring security to their homeland from WMD. The Israelis wanted to “effect” a regime change in Lebanon, and the Americans want to “effect” a regime change in Baghdad. The Israelis had their eyes on the waters of Lebanon, which they stole for years; the Americans have their eyes on the oil of Iraq.
The Lebanese then sighed in relief when Arafat and his thugs left Beirut. Today, everyone sighs in relief to see the end of Saddam. And let us hope it is an end and not a deal that will allow him to live when so many have died in the name of getting rid of him. But neither the Israelis in Beirut nor the Americans in Baghdad are loved or even welcomed. Chalabi might end up being the Bashir Gamayel of Iraq. The resistance to the American general’s rule might spurn another Hezbollah. The feuds that will arise will force the United States to stay longer than it wishes to. Israel is already cleaning the Haifa oil pipeline (defunct since 1948) to receive cheap oil from Mosul and no doubt apply for OPEC membership.
The vultures are roaming far and wide but are within a certain circle called Iraq. The Turks are threatening and Iranians are warning. Rumsfeld is “warning” Syria repeatedly. The North Koreans have just issued a statement saying that nuclear weapons are the best defense against American aggression.
Waging war in the name of peace has never worked. WWI, a war to end all wars, produced a murderous sequel. As the days go by and the sun heats up the deserts of the Middle East, there is going to be some reckoning that no one has imagined.
There are reports that the Americans took long and detailed advice from the Israelis on military and other matters before starting their advance. It is obvious that the Israelis have not given them the full picture. I doubt if the Israelis know the full picture.
Today Americans are occupying an Arab land. Does it really have anything to do with this man called Sharon? After all, he masterminded the Beirut invasion.A few days ago, Israel was the only occupying power in the whole world. Today the US has earned that dubious honor. How long will it be before we see American soldiers in postures familiar from the streets of Ramallah and Bethlehem? How long will it be before the daily death toll begins to click? I wonder if the Israelis have advised their friend (the occupying general who once admired their army for “exercising restraint” in the face of the intifada) to stock up on rubber bullet?
If Garner’s restraint is as “admirable” as the Israeli one, we are in for a long one.
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As the resident Lebanese philosopher in the house, I kindly ask you to shut up.
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why the hostility owen? i found it to be a good article.
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why the hostility owen? i found it to be a good article.
The fact the author has blatantly ignored facts and twisted the truth makes him just as much as a puppet as any Fox News commentator.
Also, the analogy is false; Israel was viewed as an invader and occupier by all, even the Christians. Most people in Iraq support the overthrow of Iraq, though naturally they are worried about what the US may do (and rightly do).
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Owen until you provide facts to back up your claims, all you are doing is "typing loud and ain't sayin' nothin'" and I couldn't care less if you were Lebanese or Iranian, your views are unique to you......in other words no one gives a fuck what you have to say the only power you have is to move and lock threads, so just stick to your lowly mod duties, and let those who are interested in such articles and threads, discuss and debate them.
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Owen until you provide facts to back up your claims, all you are doing is "typing loud and ain't sayin' nothin'" and I couldn't care less if you were Lebanese or Iranian, your views are unique to you......in other words no one gives a fuck what you have to say the only power you have is to move and lock threads, so just stick to your lowly mod duties, and let those who are interested in such articles and threads, discuss and debate them.
You know nothing about the Lebanese conflict-so back off.
Ignorant racist, were you banned, is that why you have such a low post count?
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You know nothing about the Lebanese conflict-so back off.
Ignorant racist, were you banned, is that why you have such a low post count?
Whoa, Owen told me to back off, so I better watch it or else ....hahahahaha
Hey Towel-head, I was never banned, so go close a thread or something and try to counter the article instead of trying to belittle me, because you can't see me intellectually on this forum.
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Whoa, Owen told me to back off, so I better watch it or else ....hahahahaha
Hey Towel-head, I was never banned, so go close a thread or something and try to counter the article instead of trying to belittle me, because you can't see me intellectually on this forum.
"Towel-head"? First, that just proves you're a racist fuck. Second, I'm not an Arab. Fool.
Oh, I guess I can't "see you", I better go content myself with an Ivy League education, being promoted two grades, and debating with the finest minds of our times.
I have already countered that article and destroyed it. Try harder next time.
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hey nigger slave, come suck my cock now! or ill whip your ass
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"Towel-head"? First, that just proves you're a racist fuck. Second, I'm not an Arab. Fool.
Oh, I guess I can't "see you", I better go content myself with an Ivy League education, being promoted two grades, and debating with the finest minds of our times.
I have already countered that article and destroyed it. Try harder next time.
Yea and you were the one who thought ATL only stood for Atlanta (imagine that, even on a WESTCOAST hip-hop forum board), huh Einstein? Well I'm real good at "race-baiting" and the "towel-head" comment just went over your head from a previous comment you made on a thread some days back "Mr. 2 Grade Skipper" (yea whatever). Look you can never successfully debate me on any subject, regardless of your corny ass two sentence replies. And you did not destroy this article in no way shape or form. And if you think "everyone" felt Israel was an invader, you are as dumb as you make yourself out to be.
Again stick to closing threads, when you can't counter intelligent debate. Shit, I rather deal with that white boy Finite. At least he has two more active braincells than you. So hankerchief-head, cheweth on your cud of replies.
Ivy League schools? Hahahahahahahahahaha
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"Towel-head"? First, that just proves you're a racist fuck. Second, I'm not an Arab. Fool.
Oh, I guess I can't "see you", I better go content myself with an Ivy League education, being promoted two grades, and debating with the finest minds of our times.
I have already countered that article and destroyed it. Try harder next time.
Yea and you were the one who thought ATL only stood for Atlanta (imagine that, even on a WESTCOAST hip-hop forum board), huh Einstein? Well I'm real good at "race-baiting" and the "towel-head" comment just went over your head from a previous comment you made on a thread some days back "Mr. 2 Grade Skipper" (yea whatever). Look you can never successfully debate me on any subject, regardless of your corny ass two sentence replies. And you did not destroy this article in no way shape or form. And if you think "everyone" felt Israel was an invader, you are as dumb as you make yourself out to be.
Again stick to closing threads, when you can't counter intelligent debate. Shit, I rather deal with that white boy Finite. At least he has two more active braincells than you. So hankerchief-head, cheweth on your cud of replies.
Ivy League schools? Hahahahahahahahahaha
I'm not Arab, you fool. My GG Grandpa should never have freed y'all bitch-ass niggers, y'all are retards.
Also, yes, when the Israelis came in and freed us, temporarily, from the Syrian yoke; but then they massacred refugee camps full of Lebanese Christians and Muslims, and after that, any who still wanted them there were evidently insane.
Bottom line, you're a coward and a troll, skilled only in dragging your tails. Get back to sohh, you intellectual midget.
P.S. Coward, try and answer my other thread.
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I'm not Arab, you fool. My GG Grandpa should never have freed y'all bitch-ass niggers, y'all are retards.
Is that an offensive remark, in regards to being a towel head or a cracka, cavy? This is the internet, what you type safely behind a computer screen does nothing to me. You can say nigger all day everyday.
(and Rud/Overseer made you a mod, hahahahaha)
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Is that an offensive remark, in regards to being a towel head or a cracka, cavy? This is the internet, what you type safely behind a computer screen does nothing to me. You can say nigger all day everyday.
(and Rud/Overseer made you a mod, hahahahaha)
Research concept: irony, cross reference: satire.
You intellectual midget.
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why the hostility owen? i found it to be a good article.
Also, the analogy is false; Israel was viewed as an invader and occupier by all, even the Christians
mistakenley and sadly.
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mistakenley and sadly.
The Israelis first came in, and we thought they were liberators; then they replaced our government with martial law, massacred refugees, and proved themselves to be just as bad as the Syrians.
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Not Sabra and Shatila again, we already know Phalangies were the ones to massacare the people in these camps for their religion, how come people still think Israel's forces had something to do with it, and the article even sayes we Masterminded it, god damn, I never heared of a more spontanious massacare.... Plus Lebanon was never taken as hard as u're making it look, and the martial law remained simply cause there's no way to leberate a small erea and stay there to protect it with a weak temporarry government.
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Not Sabra and Shatila again, we already know Phalangies were the ones to massacare the people in these camps for their religion, how come people still think Israel's forces had something to do with it, and the article even sayes we Masterminded it, god damn, I never heared of a more spontanious massacare.... Plus Lebanon was never taken as hard as u're making it look, and the martial law remained simply cause there's no way to leberate a small erea and stay there to protect it with a weak temporarry government.
I'm referring to the "regrettable" (to quote Ariel) incident at Al Ishta.
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Back to Sabra and Shatilla, no one is saying IDF forces entered those camps, but if youre tellin me that incident was "spontaneous", Id say youve gon crazy. Sharon KNEW that Phalanges were heading into those camps, he KNEW what would happen when armed Phalange members enter a Palestinian refugee camp, even when the original reports of massacres leaked to Sharon, He STILL didnt do anything. Precisely why he was found to be INDIRECTLY responsible.
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Back to Sabra and Shatilla, no one is saying IDF forces entered those camps, but if youre tellin me that incident was "spontaneous", Id say youve gon crazy. Sharon KNEW that Phalanges were heading into those camps, he KNEW what would happen when armed Phalange members enter a Palestinian refugee camp, even when the original reports of massacres leaked to Sharon, He STILL didnt do anything. Precisely why he was found to be INDIRECTLY responsible.
I think Al Ishta is, in some ways, an even better example. The IDF remained on the outskirts of the town, stopping Lebanese regular forces (that is, from what is now the Resistance) entering to stop the carnage, and allowing the Phalanx to stay in there. Palpably condoning murder.
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Back to Sabra and Shatilla, no one is saying IDF forces entered those camps, but if youre tellin me that incident was "spontaneous", Id say youve gon crazy. Sharon KNEW that Phalanges were heading into those camps, he KNEW what would happen when armed Phalange members enter a Palestinian refugee camp, even when the original reports of massacres leaked to Sharon, He STILL didnt do anything. Precisely why he was found to be INDIRECTLY responsible.
Well, since he was the comanding officer of the Israeli forces during the incident, it's not surprising any court would find him inderectly responsible. It's rather a political thing, than an arguement that reflects anything relevant to our debate. As for him knowing, and for-seeing
so many things, acording to your words, he than might as well have for-seen the negative effect the events would have at his career later on...As for responding to the first actual reports that came, u know how much time it could take untill something was confirmed, in these types of situations?, come on man, it's the millitarry they can't act upon rumours....Besides, since when is Israel responsable for inter-tribal disagreements....what if the phalangs invaded the camps without the Israelis being there, who would be blamed than?
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Back to Sabra and Shatilla, no one is saying IDF forces entered those camps, but if youre tellin me that incident was "spontaneous", Id say youve gon crazy. Sharon KNEW that Phalanges were heading into those camps, he KNEW what would happen when armed Phalange members enter a Palestinian refugee camp, even when the original reports of massacres leaked to Sharon, He STILL didnt do anything. Precisely why he was found to be INDIRECTLY responsible.
I think Al Ishta is, in some ways, an even better example. The IDF remained on the outskirts of the town, stopping Lebanese regular forces (that is, from what is now the Resistance) entering to stop the carnage, and allowing the Phalanx to stay in there. Palpably condoning murder.
Well, think logiclly man,Lebanese regular forces were viewed as the Enemies, phalangs weren't there to atack the Israeli forces....and lets say, they could've asumed a tragic outcome, do u think it's that easy to cover the town and at the same time try to fade out riots in it...again I repeat, army can't act upon hunches, not being 100% sure it was going to happen, was enough to forget about something that may or may not happen, since there were bigger problems in the present....
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Well Im not blaming Sharon for Sabra and Shatilla, but as the occupying power and the puppet masters behind the phalange, The Israelis must have had some sort of responsibility to stop that, no?
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Of course, the strictly right-mind human responsibility, since they were in the erea and they could've helped, but during war times it's not always as obvious or as easy since soldiers tend to worry bout present problems and not asumeable future problems, although I don't believe Israelis could be considered as phlanges' masters, since the massacare was clearly against Israel's interest....
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For Israel to launch helicopter attacks on suspected militants in civilian areas is against its interests as well. Doesnt stop them from doing it tho, ;)
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For Israel to launch helicopter attacks on suspected militants in civilian areas is against its interests as well. Doesnt stop them from doing it tho, ;)
Not really man, Cause all of the (as u defined) "suspected"
millitants are in fact much more than "suspected", I would rather call them "wanted" than "suspected".....