West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: OutSider on April 24, 2003, 11:54:39 PM
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thats right, the person who killed the three rialto boys.. one being my friend Jason two years ago is being sent to the CHAIR!.... JUSTICE IS SERVED!
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I've been tending to think lately, that death panalty, unless it's pre-emptive in some cases, is not quite justefied.
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yeah, i agree igeezy. While we all feel strongly about rapists murderers molesters etc, and there are times you wish they'd just be killed, i really dont think we have that right. If you kill that person, you are no better than them. Couple that with the amount of innocents who get the chair (although dna is changing that) and the fact that many of these people are simply sick and need treatment, means that the death penalty is rarely justified. To be honest, if i was a rapist/molester, id prefer the death penalty than a lifetime of being ass-raped in jail. But thats another thing altogether.
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yeah i've pondered this too
is the death penalty too easy on criminals?
if they are killers or rapists should we torture them for the rest of their lives instead of the death penalty
i know torturing them would be a worse fate than the death penalty
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I've been tending to think lately, that death panalty, unless it's pre-emptive in some cases, is not quite justefied.
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fuck the pussies...give him the chair
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I've been tending to think lately, that death panalty, unless it's pre-emptive in some cases, is not quite justefied.
No doubt...
-{bLaDe}
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Amnesty International have attacked the us with figures that prove the death penalty is racist. If anyones interested ill try and type it up tomorrow. I dont see how a country whicch claims to be a pillar of human rights can have that kind of punishment
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That is not right, what is worse is, you celebrate such an event. As a Buddhist, we are taught to be at peace with everything, and refrain from anything which brings harm and demise. It is not man's right to decide the death or life of a person. The person did wrong, yes, but he will be punished when the time comes, by ending his life, he is dragging those around him in the depths of sin. He will be punshed, not for his sins, but by his sins, peace
V
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* Sigh. What's the world coming to.
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So, what's your stance on the death penalty Trauma?
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"No one commands me. No man. No God. No Elder. No Prince. What is a claim of age for ones who are immortal? What is a claim of power for ones who defy death? Call you damnable hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming to Hell with me."-Gunter Dorn, Das Ungeheuer Darin
"By murdering our criminals, we become roses watered with blood."-Anon
"Give way-thy God loves blood!-then look to it-Give way ere he hath more!"-Lord Byron, Cain: A Mystery
"Death is no threat to people who are not afraid to die: But even if these offenders feared death all day, who would be rash enough to act as executioner?"-Lao Tzu, The Way of Life
"We use ideas merely to justify our evil, and speech merely to conceal our ideas."-Voltaire, Dialogue XIV
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."-Dr Samuel Johnson
"Is evil something you are?
Or something you do?"-Morrissey, Sister I'm A Poet
"With our tongue we praise our Lord and our Father, and with it we curse men, made into God's image. This should not be.
THERE IS ONLY ONE LAWGIVER AND JUDGE, THE ONE WHO IS ABLE TO SAVE AND DESTROY. BUT YOU-WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE YOUR NEIGHBOUR?"-The Book of James
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^^ Judges are a necessity, anybody grounded in reality can see that. We can't judge our neighbor like god, or think any man better than another, but for protection from societies criminals there has to be judges. Anybody who thinks otherwise is living in la-la land.
I have no opinion on the death penalty, it doesn't relate to my life, so my opinion wouldn't count for anything anyways.
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Personally I believe that we as human beings have no right to take another's life. In my opinion that's up to God. However, in order for society to sustain life, laws and punishments have to be set in place and followed through with. So, should we send them to jail forever, yes. It's beneficial to the public because obviously if the person has the capability and willingness to kill or rape another person, he is a threat to us. But, we shouldnt put him to death. Not because its an easy way out, but more so due to the fact that it makes us as bad as him/her (like ITW said). If it was up to I'd kill all the rapists and molestors because thats just sickening to do that to others, but I wouldn't be justified in doing so. In conclusion, do they deserve to die...yes. Should we give them the punishment of death.....no because two wrongs dont make a right. Lock them up for good!!!! Let them pack some meat.
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fuck the pussies...give him the chair
word. and who cares if it's a too easy penalty? at least you got rid of a dangerous person in the society for good.
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Amnesty International have attacked the us with figures that prove the death penalty is racist. If anyones interested ill try and type it up tomorrow. I dont see how a country whicch claims to be a pillar of human rights can have that kind of punishment
Amnesty International is a left wing organization that has absolutely no credibility. They seem to only attack western nations like the US while completely ignoring legitimate humans right abuses in nations such as Iraq or China. Please post whatever report you are talking about so we can see just how stupid Amnesty International is.
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I've been tending to think lately, that death panalty, unless it's pre-emptive in some cases, is not quite justefied.
Not only does the death penalty serve as a deterrant to crime, but it truly is justice for the victim. Why should a murderer continue to live when his victim can't?
Yes, killing another person is horrible. That is why it should be the penalty for taking another innocent life. I am proud that we in America use the death penalty.
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deterent to crime? Youre gonna have to convince me on that. Plus, what about the innocent people who fall through the cracks? Did your govt create life? What gives it the distinction to take it?
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Here in the United States, there is no known case in which an innocent person has been put to death. And with DNA testing, we know for sure whether people are innocent or guilty.
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Why don't we turn this thread into talking about the death sentence in middle eastern countries, I wanna talk about how screwed up their governements are for a while. For instance, is their 1 country in the middle east that doesnt' have the 'death penalty'? I would imagine not...
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I agree that the death penalty is an easy way out....I mean, what would you rather do? Spend LIFE in jail or be put to death and end it there? Still, I agree with the death penalty because of that person spends life in jail then the taxpayers pay for his medical care, his food, etc. for the rest of his life...What a waste of money!!!
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Here in the United States, there is no known case in which an innocent person has been put to death. And with DNA testing, we know for sure whether people are innocent or guilty.
ehm... that is not 100% true...
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Trauma, that point is irrelevant. You're trying to say "well, the US may be wrong, but so are all the rest, so BAH".
As for CWalker, you poor useful fool, several people have been proven innocent.
As you don't seem to value James' judgement, I take it you're more of an Old Testament "Christian", so I'll give you some Nietzche and Russell.
"War [execution] does not determine who is right, only who is left."-Bernard Russell
And, to shorten a famous phrase...
"Be careful that you do not stare into the abyss too long; for sometimes, it stares back."-Friedrich Nietzche
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I would rather spend the rest of my life in prison then be put to death. So would all of you so don't kid yourselves.
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I would rather spend the rest of my life in prison then be put to death. So would all of you so don't kid yourselves.
No, because I know a) I would be innocent and if not, it would be a crime for good and b) I would be going somewhere better.
In your upper middle class existence, with your safe streets, and your implicit trust in Fox and CNN, you can afford to fear death. It's a theory to you, and you know you'll be cut some slack for your white collar crimes.
Real people aren't like you, so don't kid yourself.
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Trauma, that point is irrelevant. You're trying to say "well, the US may be wrong, but so are all the rest, so BAH".
No, that's not my point. My point is, why do we always bash america? Lets bash somebody else for once. People ignore other countries crap, and only bash the big dog.
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No, that's not my point. My point is, why do we always bash america? Lets bash somebody else for once. People ignore other countries crap, and only bash the big dog.
People bash their enemies. Tech bashes the US. I bash Syria, you bash other Mid East countries.
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i still agree with Nelly in his song Nellyville "If you take a life you gon' lose yours too.."
just think if a family member was murdered, that person is gone, desceased but this guy / gurl that did it is still living, sure he has some torcherous days but he's still here, why should he be able to take a life an still have his.. but thats my opinion.
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I don't wish death upon the gangmembers who killed my buddies, or the terrorist warlords who ordered the attack that killed my aunt.
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I don't wish death upon the gangmembers who killed my buddies, or the terrorist warlords who ordered the attack that killed my aunt.
well i guess i just don't like ppl that mess with my family, y'know thats all i got but yet everyones different so that's my knowledge right there
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Owen, what's gotten into you? I've noticed the little barbs you've been throwing lately, what did I say something that offended you? I've went out of my way to be nice to you, and you're treating me like a punk lately.
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I agree with Owen on this one.... and Trauma stop crying, I'm sure he still likes you ;)
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I'm not crying, I'm just testing my theory.
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Owen, what's gotten into you? I've noticed the little barbs you've been throwing lately, what did I say something that offended you? I've went out of my way to be nice to you, and you're treating me like a punk lately.
How can my last post directed at you be construed as a barb?
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thats right, the person who killed the three rialto boys.. one being my friend Jason two years ago is being sent to the CHAIR!.... JUSTICE IS SERVED!
good
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Firstly, CWalker, you truly do have some kind of fucked up mentality. Amnesty international in no way concentrates on the western countries. It spends FAR more time on third world countries (note: the campaign to overturn nigerias death sentance by stoning of a woman who commited adultery) I actually have heard very little from them about abuses in western countries. As for iraq, amnesty had been highlighting the crisis there for the last decade and no-one said shit. I can understand you condemning the french government etc, but an organisation that has saved millions does not deserve your branding of it as simply a "left-wing organisation" just because they publish a report condeming the death penalty worldwide and, the ultimate sin, america( they used the united states because it is possible to obtain statistics to prove innocents get killed and depends on race; this is not us bashing, this is is taking an example we can relate to) As for saying it deters crime, thats bullshit, if your gonna commit a murder its not gonna matter if u get 25yrs or death, because you'll either be 1. insane or 2.evil 3. in a rage. In none of these states can youweigh those options up. So the real losers are the innocent or those that did it in self defense etc etc.
And trauma, you may seem it is us bashing and I agree that the middle east is horrific in this regard. But how does it make you feel that your country engages in the same barbaric actions. I cant off the top of my head think of other countries where it takes place in the western world, and the fact is the us still has much higher crime rates, thus deterence isnt working.In Ireland the max sentence is about 30yrs and we only get about 40-60 murders a year.
In conclusion, i dont think the death penalty is the answer, because revenge simply doesnt heal the hurt caused. Where would the world be if we followed this train of thought. Every civilian the brits killed in ireland over the years would have to be accounted for by killing british. 5million germans would have to be killed for the holocaust. thousands of americans would have to be killed for previous wars. It wouldnt work. Two wrongs dont make a right. I'll listen to your answer trauma coz you have valid points but cwalker you really need to travel or something man and open your mind.
ITW
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ITW, thanks for exposing cwalker's ignorance over Amnesty.
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Post the Amnesty International report, because I am telling you that the death penalty is NOT racist.
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In conclusion, i dont think the death penalty is the answer, because revenge simply doesnt heal the hurt caused. Where would the world be if we followed this train of thought. Every civilian the brits killed in ireland over the years would have to be accounted for by killing british. 5million germans would have to be killed for the holocaust. thousands of americans would have to be killed for previous wars. It wouldnt work. Two wrongs dont make a right. I'll listen to your answer trauma coz you have valid points but cwalker you really need to travel or something man and open your mind.
ITW
dude, every situation is different, but death penalty is also a way to PREVENT crime!
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cwalker, it was a newspaper report on the findings. ill try and find it if it hasnt been thrown out... stay put ill go look for it now...
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ok, found it...ill type up the intro and the stats used etc...
Amnesty links race with death penalty, Friday 25 April 2003
By Conor O'Clery in New York
On March 7th the US Supreme Court stopped Texas from excecuting its 300th inmate since cap punishment since 1977...delma banks had ate his last meal and was ten minutes away from death before the call was made.....more stuff bout the dude, now the stats....
"The report, which renews amnestys call for the end of capital punishment, states that black and whites are victims of murder in almost equal numbers in the us, but 80% of the more than 840 people excecuted since judicial killing resumed in 1977 were put to death for murders involving white victims.
Most murders involve perpetrators and victims of the same race, yet nearly 200 blacks have been executed for the murder of white victims, 15 times the number of whites put to death for killing blacks and at least twice as many as the number of blacks executed for the murder of other blacks. African Americans account for 12% of the population, but make up more than 40% of inmates on death row and one in three of those executed. One in four blacks put to death for killing whites were tried in front of all white juries..."
it goes on a bit more but refers more to specific cases. That is the main figures given for the race argument, so i hope it answers your question
ITW
and @mauzip, i suppose it is a bit of a deterent but dont you think its terribly barbaric for a countrywho "promotes" peace?
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and @mauzip, i suppose it is a bit of a deterent but dont you think its terribly barbaric for a countrywho "promotes" peace?
no
promoting peace and punishing people are 2 different things
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So we are taught not to kill, but if we do, that rule no longer applies and you will be killed?
I understand that many of these people deserve to die and are a threat to people until they are killed but i really dont think we have the right to pass judgement on someones right to LIVE. Innocents get convicted, and killed, and therefore are murdered. These people did nothing wrong except be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Can we live with even ONE of these wrongful deaths, when they could just be put in prison, leaving them at least a hope in the future of being proven innocent. It seems only logical
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CWalker - address this.
Texas put to death more people than all the other states combined last year.
Yet three out of the top five cities for crime were Texan.
So how does this correspond to your theory that the death sentence deters crime?
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CWalker - address this.
Texas put to death more people than all the other states combined last year.
Yet three out of the top five cities for crime were Texan.
So how does this correspond to your theory that the death sentence deters crime?
Shut the hell up.
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Thank god he's killing all those people in texas, they'd never have enough cells with all the assholes committing crime down there! Look at those statistics!
really though, I've realized anything political comes down to liberal vs. conservative... it's a mindset, and it doesn't change. All politicians do is trick each other, it's like a big chess game. No republican convinces a democrat or vice versa of their position, they just find a way to screw them over.. it's a power struggle.
Same thing with all our arguments. I have evidence to support my claims, you have evidence to support yours. The one that wins won't convince the other of anything, he'll just be better at orating his evidence. Debate is useless, just another thing I've learned in life. The ones with power will ultimately win out, it has nothing to do with rationality, or teaching somebody... I think as kids we all make up our minds what type of people we're gonna be, then we don't stray very far from that, least we admit we were wrong before.
I can sit here all day and say why I think the death penalty is right, or wrong, or whatever, and i'm not gonna change anybody's minds. Even if i DID, you'd never admit it, probably not even to yourself. Same thing with yall; you're never gonna change my mind.
We insult each other's intelligence. Like people say it's a deterrant to crime; do they honestly think that hasn't crossed the anti-death penalty person's mind? like they're gonna say "Oh... so THATS why we kill people! oh, thank you for explaining it, I understand now! Yeah! I agree! The death penalty is necessary!"
When we tell people "Killing isn't right! We don't have the right to kill someone, even if they're a killer!" Do you honestly think we haven't thought about that before? Do you think you're gonna change our mind?
What happens in the end, is one side, who has more power, whether that be oration skills, charisma, status, age, wit, whatever, will win, and the other side wont' change their mind, they'll just find someone weaker to attack.
You know it's true, come on... lets all just see things for how they are. I'm gonna raise my kids to be little conservatives, and i'll be a good dad. You'll raise your kids to be little liberals, and you'll be a good dad. If we're bad dads, our kids will have the oposite beliefs. You see it all day long... when people don't get along with their parents, or don't share their views, it's because their parents suck. Simple as that. It all goes back to childhood, Freud was right, Michael Jackson is right, teachers are right, old dirty bastard is right... it's all about the kids.
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What happens in the end, is one side, who has more power, whether that be oration skills, charisma, status, age, wit, whatever, will win, and the other side wont' change their mind, they'll just find someone weaker to attack.
Trauma finally realises what politics is about
And C Walker - unlucky son, you've been beaten again
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Finally? I've been knowing this, i'm just reminding everybody... again I don't want to patronize (which I do way too much) and insult your intelligence. I'm just saying, why do we even argue? Haven't we proven it's pointless? If you understood that already, like you allude, then why do you even argue against the opposing view point? Lately, I've been content to just lay back and laugh, that's why I haven't been posting much.
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Well relax already
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I am relaxed; I'm not even arguing! I'm just wondering why we all argue and waste our time, nobody's learning anything.
P.S., meet you at the other thread....
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I am relaxed; I'm not even arguing! I'm just wondering why we all argue and waste our time, nobody's learning anything.
P.S., meet you at the other thread....
Why do people argue about Snoop Dogg albums?
In fact lets shut down this site, because the majority of communicate is debate/argument.
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Jay schools CWalker, and throws an excellent rebuttal to Trauma.
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Jay schools CWalker, and throws an excellent rebuttal to Trauma.
Keep you mouth shut, you jerk. I have never been schooled.
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AAAH...So THAT'S why you're so ignorant. Your lack of schooling is tragic.
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@trauma
really good post, ive been thinking that for a while. Ive kinda accepted we dont change ppls minds, but maybe we open their minds a bit, like during the war i was interested in how you viewed it, and why you did, and im sure vice versa. WHat we learn, is how other people think, other mindsets, other political viewpoints. The debates never get anywhere, but we do learn something. Im not sure of the liberal-conservative thing coz we dont have that in ireland, but im sure its similar. Anyway, good post man, but keep posting your views here, at least your coherent unlike my good friend c-man