West Coast Connection Forum

The Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: love33 on February 16, 2017, 01:13:42 AM

Title: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on February 16, 2017, 01:13:42 AM
They both recorded it on Tha Row and then Daz released the track and added Joe Buddens

Young Doobie Version ft Danny Boy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53u6q1csAVE


Daz Version ft Jagged Edge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lajVT2c7zsg
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: kuruptDPG on February 16, 2017, 02:16:54 AM
I am pretty sure daz clearly has this song in the vault and decided to copy it
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Montana Mob on February 16, 2017, 03:49:13 AM
Are both songs sampled? I've tried searching Who Sampled Who and there are no records. Danny Boy's singing sounds familar
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: RoscoeOutlaw on February 16, 2017, 07:07:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTljBAAzJuw

the deele- just my luck
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Quadruple OG on February 17, 2017, 09:48:19 AM
They both recorded it on Tha Row and then Daz released the track and added Joe Buddens

Wrong. Daz recorded it in 2006-07
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on February 20, 2017, 01:34:45 AM
They both recorded it on Tha Row and then Daz released the track and added Joe Buddens

Wrong. Daz recorded it in 2006-07

Nah, they both recorded it on Tha Row -- it was unreleased -- Tha Row had their artists record MULTIPLE versions of the same song -- there were 5 versions of Nuthin But A G' Thang for example (this happened with a lot of tracks, but just one example) -- Daz took the track with him and he added Joe Buddens (he stole the "RAW" album from Suge, and he stole Soopafly's album, and Pac tracks, and other stuff) -- Suge said there was stolen material off this album in an interview -- he re-released it on his own label in 2007 with Buddens
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on February 20, 2017, 07:12:27 PM
Nah, they both recorded it on Tha Row -- it was unreleased -- Tha Row had their artists record MULTIPLE versions of the same song -- there were 5 versions of Nuthin But A G' Thang for example (this happened with a lot of tracks, but just one example) -- Daz took the track with him and he added Joe Buddens (he stole the "RAW" album from Suge, and he stole Soopafly's album, and Pac tracks, and other stuff) -- Suge said there was stolen material off this album in an interview -- he re-released it on his own label in 2007 with Buddens
Daz didn't produce his version.  John Silva did.  Once again, you're using your imagination to create your own rumor. 
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: dj coma on February 20, 2017, 09:35:48 PM
Nah, they both recorded it on Tha Row -- it was unreleased -- Tha Row had their artists record MULTIPLE versions of the same song -- there were 5 versions of Nuthin But A G' Thang for example (this happened with a lot of tracks, but just one example) -- Daz took the track with him and he added Joe Buddens (he stole the "RAW" album from Suge, and he stole Soopafly's album, and Pac tracks, and other stuff) -- Suge said there was stolen material off this album in an interview -- he re-released it on his own label in 2007 with Buddens
Daz didn't produce his version.  John Silva did.  Once again, you're using your imagination to create your own rumor. 

Ya, there's zero proof that Daz recorded any version of that song at Death Row.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: donfathaimmortal on February 22, 2017, 07:56:18 AM
Ya, there's zero proof that Daz recorded any version of that song at Death Row.

This.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on February 26, 2017, 01:04:29 AM
Nah, they both recorded it on Tha Row -- it was unreleased -- Tha Row had their artists record MULTIPLE versions of the same song -- there were 5 versions of Nuthin But A G' Thang for example (this happened with a lot of tracks, but just one example) -- Daz took the track with him and he added Joe Buddens (he stole the "RAW" album from Suge, and he stole Soopafly's album, and Pac tracks, and other stuff) -- Suge said there was stolen material off this album in an interview -- he re-released it on his own label in 2007 with Buddens
Daz didn't produce his version.  John Silva did.  Once again, you're using your imagination to create your own rumor. 

It's the SAME BEAT! Go LISTEN! All they did was make a minor tweak! Silva should be embarrassed to say he "produced" a Stolen Beat!
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Mietek23 on February 26, 2017, 05:09:34 AM
^^^Dude, it's called sampling - stop it.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: bouli77 on February 26, 2017, 08:17:40 AM
^^^Dude, it's called sampling - stop it.

dude keeps on embarrassing himself. lol. they just used the same damn loop, One God Cide have done it before them.

 i take it he doesn't know about The Deele's Just My Luck (a group comprised, among others, of Babyface & LA Reid, two of the GOAT r&b producers  8))

Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: dj coma on February 26, 2017, 12:22:27 PM
^^^Dude, it's called sampling - stop it.

dude keeps on embarrassing himself. lol. they just used the same damn loop, One God Cide have done it before them.

 i take it he doesn't know about The Deele's Just My Luck (a group comprised, among others, of Babyface & LA Reid, two of the GOAT r&b producers  8))

The sample, Just My Luck, is posted right above in this thread and the guy somehow still doesn't understand  ::)
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: bouli77 on February 26, 2017, 01:07:17 PM
you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, especially if it has blinders on
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on February 26, 2017, 01:17:24 PM
It's the SAME BEAT! Go LISTEN! All they did was make a minor tweak! Silva should be embarrassed to say he "produced" a Stolen Beat!
They aren't the SAME BEAT!  They are sampling the same track and chorus so they sound the same.  The same way, Street Dreams by Nas and All Eyez On Me by 2Pac sound like the same beat.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: kuruptDPG on February 26, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Quadruple OG on February 26, 2017, 02:46:06 PM
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?

Because Daz was in the studio bored and decided to build a time machine, travel back to 1999, and sit in studio sessions. He saw Doobie make a Daz joke, got heated, and decided to best way to get back at him was to use the same beat and song title in 2007, nearly a decade later.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: bouli77 on February 26, 2017, 03:45:21 PM
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?

purely coincidental and also goes to show how uninspired rappers are, always coming up with the same words to create rhymes

the original goes "Just my luck, you'll get caught up in the rain". he just changed the last word, and Doobie version did too. Nothing mindblowing.


In the same light, N2Deep and C-Note (of Botany Boyz) both recorded a song called "Making Cash Forever" interpolating Keith Sweat's Make It Last Forever. I doubt they were aware of each other's version at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/v/cgVrLimwHVs
https://www.youtube.com/v/ytqjPcf18Uw



Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on February 26, 2017, 05:44:19 PM
And seeing as "Gangsta Party" was put out by High Power Entertainment (not Daz's Gangsta Advisory) and was entirely produced by John Silva, I'm guessing this was just a bunch of studio sessions paid for by Silva to make a one-time album.  If this was a track taken by Daz from his days at Death Row, he probably would have released it years prior like he did with "R.A.W." and "Dillinger & Young Gotti".
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on February 26, 2017, 11:32:37 PM
so why does daz name the song the same name as doobies song?

Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Quadruple OG on February 27, 2017, 09:42:54 AM
It's purely a coincidence as has been pointed out several times already in this thread. Daz's version was recorded in 2006-2007.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on February 27, 2017, 07:23:10 PM
Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!

The problem is isn't the same track.  If Daz stole the track and tweaked it, it would have the same structure in terms of instrumentation (like the Dillinger & Young Gotti songs that he took from Death Row and redid).  It doesn't.  This is a new instrumental.  The beat is livelier and the chorus is completely different.  Danny Boy's has a more somber tone, is slower, and the lyrics are closer to The Deele version.  The Jagged Edge one is happier and has a repetitive punch to it.  Listen to them again.  Outside of sampling the same chorus and changing "rain" to "game", none of the lyrics are the same.  They aren't sang in the same way. 

You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there.  Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: dj coma on February 27, 2017, 08:23:14 PM
You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there. Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

Spot on, especially the 2nd paragraph. Kobane produced the Doobie version also, not Daz.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on February 28, 2017, 01:37:06 AM
Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!

The problem is isn't the same track.  If Daz stole the track and tweaked it, it would have the same structure in terms of instrumentation (like the Dillinger & Young Gotti songs that he took from Death Row and redid).  It doesn't.  This is a new instrumental.  The beat is livelier and the chorus is completely different.  Danny Boy's has a more somber tone, is slower, and the lyrics are closer to The Deele version.  The Jagged Edge one is happier and has a repetitive punch to it.  Listen to them again.  Outside of sampling the same chorus and changing "rain" to "game", none of the lyrics are the same.  They aren't sang in the same way. 

You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there.  Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

There's no assumption here --
FACT: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records when Doobie recorded that track -- Daz had visibility to that track and Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track
FACT: Daz stole multiple albums and tracks -- "RAW" was all Suge's music -- This was no different, it was a lead single on his solo album
OPINION: Yeah, the Daz version is way better! Of course I agree with that -- He took the track and made it better! Jagged Edge sounds clutch on his beat and he flows better than Doobie!

FACT: Death Row has a long and large history of this stuff:
FACT: Yes, people sample beats, but these are people on the SAME LABEL with almost identical sounds

2Pac "Toss It Up" <---> Dr. Dre "No Diggity"
Snoop Doggy Dogg "Snoopafella" <------> Top Dogg "Cindafella"
Young Doobie "I'm Country"  <---->  Chocolate Bandit "I'm Country"
Tha Dogg Pound "What We Go Through" ft. Warren G, & Bad Azz <----> Warren G ft. Bad Azz & Perfec
Tha Dogg Pound "I Luv" ft. Scarface & Too Short <-----> Scarface "I Luv" ft. Too Short, Daz, & Trick Daddy

OPINION:  You don't see Drake, YFN Lucci, Migos, etc. having to re-release or re-record or "tweak the beat" or whatever you want to call it's a hack move for a remake so why not call it a "Remix" instead of marketing it as an original first single, when there's nothing original about re-sampling a track that your label mate already did


In a LONG LONG Line, just to name a few
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Quadruple OG on February 28, 2017, 07:59:44 AM
Exactly what I'm saying -- it's not the fact he sampled the same track -- Daz was the lead producer at Death Row when Doobie recorded it and decided to steal the concept and didn't even change the name of the song!

The problem is isn't the same track.  If Daz stole the track and tweaked it, it would have the same structure in terms of instrumentation (like the Dillinger & Young Gotti songs that he took from Death Row and redid).  It doesn't.  This is a new instrumental.  The beat is livelier and the chorus is completely different.  Danny Boy's has a more somber tone, is slower, and the lyrics are closer to The Deele version.  The Jagged Edge one is happier and has a repetitive punch to it.  Listen to them again.  Outside of sampling the same chorus and changing "rain" to "game", none of the lyrics are the same.  They aren't sang in the same way. 

You also seemed to have modified your original story.  Before you said, Daz recorded his version at Death Row, stole it, and used it on this album.  Now, you're saying Doobie recorded it and Daz stole the concept.  I already know you're completely full of shit but for the sake of helping you create a better fake story in another forum, go with the second lie next time.  Stealing the concept at least is feasible.  Stealing an old track and completely producing it again from scratch and changing the chorus then giving producer credit to somebody else is just pointless, especially when Daz has had no trouble with putting out old Death Row tracks before. 

So, for the sake of argument, Daz might have heard Doobie's version and decided almost a decade later to jack it but if he did, you wouldn't have any knowledge of. You weren't there.  Nobody in the know told you.  You didn't read about it or hear about it. You basically created an assumption and are trying to pass it off as being true.  You remind me of that Karceno guy who does those fake YouTube videos.  You have been a Death Row fan for probably 20 years and have watched and read all kinds of stuff so now you're using that info to create your own fan fiction and impress people who don't enough to spot the bullshit.   

There's no assumption here --
FACT: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records when Doobie recorded that track -- Daz had visibility to that track and Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track
FACT: Daz stole multiple albums and tracks -- "RAW" was all Suge's music -- This was no different, it was a lead single on his solo album
OPINION: Yeah, the Daz version is way better! Of course I agree with that -- He took the track and made it better! Jagged Edge sounds clutch on his beat and he flows better than Doobie!

FACT: Death Row has a long and large history of this stuff:
FACT: Yes, people sample beats, but these are people on the SAME LABEL with almost identical sounds

2Pac "Toss It Up" <---> Dr. Dre "No Diggity"
Snoop Doggy Dogg "Snoopafella" <------> Top Dogg "Cindafella"
Young Doobie "I'm Country"  <---->  Chocolate Bandit "I'm Country"
Tha Dogg Pound "What We Go Through" ft. Warren G, & Bad Azz <----> Warren G ft. Bad Azz & Perfec
Tha Dogg Pound "I Luv" ft. Scarface & Too Short <-----> Scarface "I Luv" ft. Too Short, Daz, & Trick Daddy

OPINION:  You don't see Drake, YFN Lucci, Migos, etc. having to re-release or re-record or "tweak the beat" or whatever you want to call it's a hack move for a remake so why not call it a "Remix" instead of marketing it as an original first single, when there's nothing original about re-sampling a track that your label mate already did


In a LONG LONG Line, just to name a few

Post is 100% assumption and 100% fiction. The song was recorded by Daz around 2006-2007 and has nothing to do with the Doobie one (other than using the same sample) despite you trying to connect the dots.

As for the songs you mentioned, "Snoopafella" was recorded on No Limit before Top Dogg recorded "Top Dogg Cindafella". Tha Dogg Pound wasn't cleared by Death Row to appear on "What We Go Through", hence they were removed from the track and the alternate version was released on Warren G's album.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on February 28, 2017, 04:44:34 PM
Okay, yet another time…

FACT: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records when Doobie recorded that track -- Daz had visibility to that track and Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track

This is your textbook move here.  You make a small portion of a correct statement and then pile on incorrect or unproven information to it so let’s go ahead and break this down.

“Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER at Death Row Records.”

The only part of this statement that is actually a FACT.

“when Doobie recorded that track.”

This is ASSUMPTION.  Firstly, how do you know what date this track was recorded?  We know Daz and Doobie were on the label at the same time but to say that this track was recorded before he left is assuming.  We don’t know the exact date that Daz officially left.  We also don’t know how active he was at the studio during the time leading up to his departure. 

“Daz had visibility to that track.”

Firstly, that is terribly grammar.  I don’t know what you mean by “having visibility”.  I assume you mean he had access to the music but that isn’t the same. 

Secondly, we don’t know if Daz had access to the track.  Once again, you are assuming.  He could very well have never heard it.  The fact that he was head producer does not mean he listened to every studio recording that came out of there.  The last year and change that Dr. Dre was head producer at Death Row, he hardly ever went to Can-Am and worked out of his studio at home.  He didn’t have working relationships with all the producers or artists.   

This practice continued after he left.  Many people who worked on Makaveli explained how there were several studios.  One that Pac’s guys worked out of.  One that Snoop’s crew used.  And yet another where they had unknown producers trying to work with different R&B guys. 

“Death Row recorded multiple versions of the track.”

Assumption.  Have any of the other versions been released or leaked? 

FACT: Yes, people sample beats, but these are people on the SAME LABEL with almost identical sounds.

These aren’t almost identical sounds, any more than Cormega’s “Beautiful Mind” is almost identical to Beanie Siegel’s “Still Got Love For You”.  The similarity is they are both replaying the same sample. You have extremely poor ears for music if you can’t tell the difference. 
Same samples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opK24ouA65Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypH78rc6sPw&list=PLddSkUxmPEC-H6pMfBMMtihwTpT1KoaCQ&index=10

Look at that same sample and same song title.  And Snoop worked with Suga Free.  Snoop must have made his own version then stole it and gave it to Teddy Riley.  What do you think?

Here’s another one…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQRmA2v2D9s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS5L01gQwTw

Wait a second!  Dre was the “head producer” at Aftermath so I bet he produced his own version of “Stan” then when Eminem didn’t use it, he held on to it and sold it to Snoop, years later.  Fan fiction is fun, huh? 


It's a hack move for a remake so why not call it a "Remix" instead of marketing it as an original first single, when there's nothing original about re-sampling a track that your label mate already did.
 

Why the fuck would you call it a remix if it’s a brand new song?  Is Pac’s “Rather Be Ya NIGGA” a remix of “I’d Rather Fuck You” since his label mate at the time, Dre already sampled it for that song?  Is Jay-Z’s “Ignorant Shit” a remix of “Big Poppa” because they worked together on music? 
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on March 03, 2017, 12:14:49 AM
Quote
The only part of this statement that is actually a FACT.

“when Doobie recorded that track.”

This is ASSUMPTION.  Firstly, how do you know what date this track was recorded?  We know Daz and Doobie were on the label at the same time but to say that this track was recorded before he left is assuming.  We don’t know the exact date that Daz officially left.  We also don’t know how active he was at the studio during the time leading up to his departure. 

“Daz had visibility to that track.”

Firstly, that is terribly grammar.  I don’t know what you mean by “having visibility”.  I assume you mean he had access to the music but that isn’t the same. 

Secondly, we don’t know if Daz had access to the track. 

Daz was the second in charge after Suge  (Suge was the CEO/Owner and Daz was the General Manager) -- Daz's responsibility is to know EVERY single track that floats through that studio -- that's his JOB -- otherwise, what or WHO are they recording for? That's a Cop Out to say he didn't know (if he really didn't, then he was a terrible lead executive producer)

That's like a head football coach saying he didn't know what his guys were doing in practice -- especially since Suge was cutting them checks for recording the material, whether or not it was decided to get released -- Danny Boy said they knew everything that was going on in there -- Doobie was on there, and he was under DAZ -- so unless Daz lost total control and he was negligent or Doobie hid stuff, it falls on him as the LEAD PRODUCER for Death Row

Next, we do know when Daz left, it was in 2000, there was an article talking about how he took his shit and walked out and said fuck this after they met -- and he got on the 5 and drove north to JT THE BIGGA FIGGA, where he taught him out to produce independent records -- this was all in magazines years ago -- Daz then released "RAW" because Death Row had it on their website, next to Top Dogg's "Every Dogg Has Its Day", and because of the soured relationship, it wouldn't be released in a timely manner -- he jacked the album (I personally thought it was his best album by far)

Yes, you've made some great points on how some artists sample the same tracks -- but it's a shit on their game when they do it -- once someone masters that sample, it's like you look like you're chasing from behind -- there's certain tracks that were sampled, and they were done correctly, so why go out there and trash someone else who did it correctly -- it's like when Dennis Rodman said the Bulls went 72-10 and won the championship, they were the first ones to do that shit! The Warriors couldn't duplicate it, they tried, but they fell short -- it's the same concept that Rodman was pointing out -- why go against the people who are original in the Hip Hop industry for some flakes that come up with sour versions?
i.e. When Luniz made "5 on it" and R Kelly & Diddy made "Satisfy You" -- when everyone heard that track, they were thinking of Tha Luniz!

You have some great information, I'm not a hater -- I just see it a little different in that I don't really think it's "creative" to hear someone use a sample, and how well they do it -- then, ride that sample almost in the same manner, to come up with a twin track!
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 03, 2017, 04:36:48 PM
Daz was the second in charge after Suge  (Suge was the CEO/Owner and Daz was the General Manager) -- Daz's responsibility is to know EVERY single track that floats through that studio -- that's his JOB -- otherwise, what or WHO are they recording for? That's a Cop Out to say he didn't know (if he really didn't, then he was a terrible lead executive producer)

Daz was never a “general manager” or anything of that nature on Death Row.  When Suge got locked down, it’s common knowledge that Reggie Wright, Jr. and Mich’elle were both running the day to day operations with several other of Suge’s cronies.  Daz may have been “head of production” or “lead producer” but that doesn’t make him second-in-command.  Dre was second, not because he was lead producer but because he was co-owner of the company. 

It is presumptive thinking on your part to believe you know the responsibilities of the production team on a company like that.  It is also extremely unlikely that Daz who was producing albums and projects of his own as well as acting as a recording artist, was sitting down to listen to the hundreds of songs being recorded and put together at the label.  It just doesn’t work that way.  He was probably listening to the songs that were in consideration for albums but again, maybe, he wasn’t. 

It should also be noted that creatively, he didn’t appear to be the guy overseeing these projects either.  He was starting his own sub-label, “Dogg Pound Records” at that time under the Death Row umbrella, which would have been more his work.  Him and Big C-Style were over there.

That's like a head football coach saying he didn't know what his guys were doing in practice -- especially since Suge was cutting them checks for recording the material, whether or not it was decided to get released -- Danny Boy said they knew everything that was going on in there -- Doobie was on there, and he was under DAZ -- so unless Daz lost total control and he was negligent or Doobie hid stuff, it falls on him as the LEAD PRODUCER for Death Row.
 

Your football coach analogy would be a bit off.  The coach knows what the guys are doing in practice because he’s there.  The same way, Daz would know what songs were being produced if he was sitting in on the studio sessions but generally, if you are in a high position at a company that is doing multiple projects and volume business, you can’t be everywhere and there’s not enough time in the day to catch up.  If you’re Vince McMahon and you’re writing and producing weekly wrestling programming, you’re not going to every city your talent performs on a nightly basis, you have agents who do it for you and keep you posted on the most important developments.  When Dre was lead producer, Death Row started off doing one or two albums a year in-house.  When things grew, he started working from his studio at home, the momentum shifted.  There was work that wasn’t reaching his ears. 

Next, we do know when Daz left, it was in 2000, there was an article talking about how he took his shit and walked out and said fuck this after they met -- and he got on the 5 and drove north to JT THE BIGGA FIGGA, where he taught him out to produce independent records.

“In 2000” is a vague answer.  There are 365 days in a year.  The specifics aren’t clear.  There was clearly a rift for some time. 

Yes, you've made some great points on how some artists sample the same tracks -- but it's a shit on their game when they do it -- once someone masters that sample, it's like you look like you're chasing from behind -- there's certain tracks that were sampled, and they were done correctly, so why go out there and trash someone else who did it correctly -- it's like when Dennis Rodman said the Bulls went 72-10 and won the championship, they were the first ones to do that shit! The Warriors couldn't duplicate it, they tried, but they fell short -- it's the same concept that Rodman was pointing out -- why go against the people who are original in the Hip Hop industry for some flakes that come up with sour versions?
 

Your opinion of sampling is irrelevant to the argument.  The discussion isn’t about whether sampling the same beat is good or not. 

i.e. When Luniz made "5 on it" and R Kelly & Diddy made "Satisfy You" -- when everyone heard that track, they were thinking of Tha Luniz!
 

That’s fine but how many of them when to great lengths to establish the Yukmouth/Biggie connection as a means to concoct an Internet rumor that Puffy actually took the reel from “Five On It” and tried to release it as his own song?  Once again, this isn’t a review of “who sampled it better”?  This is you saying, without providing any evidence, that Daz recorded his own version of a song at Death Row and then waited seven years to put it out. 
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Okka on March 04, 2017, 10:39:52 AM
This shit is gettin' ridiculous.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on March 10, 2017, 10:44:00 PM
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It should also be noted that creatively, he didn’t appear to be the guy overseeing these projects either.  He was starting his own sub-label, “Dogg Pound Records” at that time under the Death Row umbrella, which would have been more his work.  Him and Big C-Style were over there.
Then what was "Lead Producer" at Death Row Records if he wasn't working on Death Row Records?  MTV heralded him as the takeover for Dr. Dre, who knew every track going through that studio until his last few 5 months when he knew he was on his way out

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When Dre was lead producer, Death Row started off doing one or two albums a year in-house.  When things grew, he started working from his studio at home, the momentum shifted.  There was work that wasn’t reaching his ears. 
This is true, which is why Dre was RAN OFF the label -- Pac said that he wasn't doing anything -- he was sitting at home while all the work was being done in the studio, and he was nowhere to be found!  Checkout the KMEL interview Pac did where he explains this in detail

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“In 2000” is a vague answer.  There are 365 days in a year.  The specifics aren’t clear.  There was clearly a rift for some time. 
There were articles in The Source Magazine and VIBE about how Daz left the label and he told his story about saying he met with Suge in jail, and he broke away (nobody ever talks about the exact reason, was it money? why was this NOT on MTV when they covered Dre leaving?)  He talks about how he traveled up 'The 5' to NorCal where he met JT The BIGGA FIGGA (they ended up recording those albums together) -- then, he broke away and released RAW independently from Death Row (he stole this album)
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on March 10, 2017, 10:48:01 PM
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Post is 100% assumption and 100% fiction. The song was recorded by Daz around 2006-2007 and has nothing to do with the Doobie one (other than using the same sample) despite you trying to connect the dots.

Fact: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER on Death Row Records when Doobie recorded "Caught Up In The Game" -- "Other than [stealing the same concept] despite [me] connecting the dots"
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: bouli77 on March 11, 2017, 01:53:18 AM
you connecting the dot is the definition of an assumption, you look at two separate things and just because they fit your imagination and somehow the situation, you ASSUME that it happened like that, when in fact there's no evidence.  It's kinda sad that a grown man cannot grasp the concept of "assuming". I mean your theory, because that's what it is, is nice and all, but at this point it's nothing but pure speculation. there is no element, other than the fact that they both used the same sample and gave the song the same name, and were on the same label at the same time, which is nothing sensational as it happened before with other artists (see my posts before), especially considering the fact that they changed one word out of the chorus line.

Daz wasn't in charge of other artists than his camp when he was presumably "running" Death Row. He just produced here and there for Chronic 2000, he didn't oversee anything. He just produced his own albums, launched his sub label Dogg Pound Records on which Crooked I was signed for a short time before making the decision to stay at Death Row when Daz & C-Style told him they were going to part ways with The Row. It's not like Daz was sitting on the whole's label catalogue and having the final say on what was going to be released or not. There's a chance that Daz drew inspiration from it, but in no case it's a fact, just a theory, and in no case it's stealing either.

Daz stole 2pac reels and reels of his own material (which would later be released, remix or not, with R.A.W. & Dillinger & Young Gotti). But there's no evidence that he stole Doobie's track or concept. Once again, you're just assuming it happened.


but I'll let you live in your own fantasy world where Top Dogg was a top prospect and Change The Game Remix was a smash hit, and So So Gangsta almost went gold with On Some Real Shit being a smash hit too  ::) must suck to be stuck on such a shitty musical period 17 years later and be somehow proud that Death Row, Tha Realest and Top Dogg were on top of the industry back then.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: HighEyeCue on March 11, 2017, 05:23:37 AM
This shit is gettin' ridiculous.

Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on March 12, 2017, 12:41:32 AM
you connecting the dot is the definition of an assumption, you look at two separate things and just because they fit your imagination and somehow the situation, you ASSUME that it happened like that, when in fact there's no evidence.  It's kinda sad that a grown man cannot grasp the concept of "assuming". I mean your theory, because that's what it is, is nice and all, but at this point it's nothing but pure speculation. there is no element, other than the fact that they both used the same sample and gave the song the same name, and were on the same label at the same time, which is nothing sensational as it happened before with other artists (see my posts before), especially considering the fact that they changed one word out of the chorus line.

Daz wasn't in charge of other artists than his camp when he was presumably "running" Death Row. He just produced here and there for Chronic 2000, he didn't oversee anything. He just produced his own albums, launched his sub label Dogg Pound Records on which Crooked I was signed for a short time before making the decision to stay at Death Row when Daz & C-Style told him they were going to part ways with The Row. It's not like Daz was sitting on the whole's label catalogue and having the final say on what was going to be released or not. There's a chance that Daz drew inspiration from it, but in no case it's a fact, just a theory, and in no case it's stealing either.

Daz stole 2pac reels and reels of his own material (which would later be released, remix or not, with R.A.W. & Dillinger & Young Gotti). But there's no evidence that he stole Doobie's track or concept. Once again, you're just assuming it happened.


but I'll let you live in your own fantasy world where Top Dogg was a top prospect and Change The Game Remix was a smash hit, and So So Gangsta almost went gold with On Some Real Shit being a smash hit too  ::) must suck to be stuck on such a shitty musical period 17 years later and be somehow proud that Death Row, Tha Realest and Top Dogg were on top of the industry back then.

Nah, you aren't accepting reality that Daz was entrusted with the head production role at Death Row Records -- he was meeting with Suge weekly in jail giving him updates on the music and artists

"When Dre left Death Row in ’95, it was Daz that Suge entrusted with directing the new sound of the label as ably as possible" -- Source:  https://thehundreds.com/blog/behind-the-groove-the-3-producers-who-honed-the-death-row-sound/
Everyone knows Dr. Dre was the head producer, then Daz was promoted internally by Suge to head producer -- then when Daz was kicked off, Above The Law's Big Hutch aka Cold187um became the lead producer -- Everything goes through the lead producer, and they are expected to develop the artists, sounds, and review all tracks
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 12, 2017, 10:14:33 AM
 
Then what was "Lead Producer" at Death Row Records if he wasn't working on Death Row Records? 
 
 

He WAS working on Death Row Records.  I never implied he wasn’t.  I said there was no evidence that he was second in command at Death Row.  I’ve seen no reliable sources that said Daz was running the show over there in any way.  Even Daz himself said it was Reggie Wright who took over for Suge.

  This is true, which is why Dre was RAN OFF the label -- Pac said that he wasn't doing anything -- he was sitting at home while all the work was being done in the studio, and he was nowhere to be found!  Checkout the KMEL interview Pac did where he explains this in detail.
 

I’ve heard that interview and several others with Pac on this subject.  As is usual with your posts, you have some basic details but are either overlooking or unaware of several other.  Dre was working from his home studio before Pac was even signed to the label.  Some of it had to do with him being placed on house arrest for drunk driving convictions and several other legal troubles.   

 
Fact: Daz was the LEAD PRODUCER on Death Row Records when Doobie recorded "Caught Up In The Game" -- "Other than [stealing the same concept] despite [me] connecting the dots"
 

Once again… this still isn’t a confirmed FACT.  Given the timeline, it is probable that it was recorded while Daz was part of the label but again, you’ve shown no evidence that Daz has ever heard the track, let alone that he stole it or recorded his own version.


Nah, you aren't accepting reality that Daz was entrusted with the head production role at Death Row Records -- he was meeting with Suge weekly in jail giving him updates on the music and artists
 


FACT – Daz was at one point given the head production role at Death Row.

ASSUMPTION – Daz was meeting with Suge weekly in jail.

"When Dre left Death Row in ’95, it was Daz that Suge entrusted with directing the new sound of the label as ably as possible" -- Source:  https://thehundreds.com/blog/behind-the-groove-the-3-producers-who-honed-the-death-row-sound/
 

Your source is a blog?  Why don’t you quote message boards while you’re at it?  Also, this still gives no description of what that specifically entitles in terms of day-to-day responsibilities.




Everyone knows Dr. Dre was the head producer, then Daz was promoted internally by Suge to head producer -- then when Daz was kicked off, Above The Law's Big Hutch aka Cold187um became the lead producer -- Everything goes through the lead producer, and they are expected to develop the artists, sounds, and review all tracks

No, everybody doesn’t know that.  That’s you claiming that “everybody knows” something to sound like it’s confirmed as factual certainty.  It isn’t.  Nobody from inside the label including Daz himself as ever stated that the label was run as smoothly as you seem to think it was.

You said Daz was promoted internally after Dre’s departure?  When exactly? When Makaveli came out, there was no Daz production and all the inside stories make no mention of Daz being involved at all.  In the “making of” article in XXL, one of the Outlawz states that Bad Azz being on Krazy was kind of a surprise since Pac’s clique wasn’t working with anyone from Dogg Pound at that point.
Doggfather has only three tracks produced by Daz and the booklet shows DJ Pooh as being the creative director on that album.  He’s pictured next to Snoop in the publicity photos for the album and has the most production on the album.

He only has one production credit on “Christmas on Death Row” on a Dogg Pound song.  He’s got a few tracks on Rage’s album, none on Mich’elle’s.  Him being in charge of “Chronic 2000” seems unlikely as well.  I find it questionable that he was a big force behind the development of Top Dogg or Tha Realest as an artist or in dissing Snoop.  The only album that came out in this time that feels like he was the driving force behind is his own solo album. 
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on March 14, 2017, 12:22:23 AM
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Dre was working from his home studio
On the MTV Documentary, which this is the most accurate one, they talk about how Dre was scared and was maturing, and some of the artists like Outlawz and Nate Dogg said he didnt want to be a part of the gang banging going on and they had young artists and beatdowns and it just wasn't the environment Dre wanted to work in anymore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE0Ygw-u8_o


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(Daz) being in charge of “Chronic 2000” seems unlikely as well.  I find it questionable that he was a big force behind the development of Top Dogg or Tha Realest as an artist or in dissing Snoop.  The only album that came out in this time that feels like he was the driving force behind is his own solo album. 

Daz was allover "All Eyez On Me"

Daz & Tha Realest were recording together quite a bit, even two hand selected tracks were put on Chronic 2K of them and Daz was on Realest's solo album, so we know they were in the studio together quite a bit while Daz was the seasoned vet at the label 98-2000.
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 14, 2017, 07:33:50 AM

On the MTV Documentary, which this is the most accurate one, they talk about how Dre was scared and was maturing, and some of the artists like Outlawz and Nate Dogg said he didnt want to be a part of the gang banging going on and they had young artists and beatdowns and it just wasn't the environment Dre wanted to work in anymore.  

It being the “most accurate” one is open to interpretation.  Being that you or I never worked there or knew any of the participants, a judgment on the accuracy of how events were described is not one that can be expertly made.  That being said, it can certainly be reasoned that the growing tensions at the label once Tupac got there did not help matters but there is also plenty of media that describes that Dre was becoming unhappy long before that.

On the special features for “Welcome To Death Row”, Snoop says he saw the changes with Dre when they moved into Can-Am Studios to work on the Dogg Food album.  He mentions that DOC and RBX leaving were factors as well.  Other factors that have also come out were how the death of Eazy-E affected him and his being shot.  He was also on house arrest in 1995.  

From a more subtle perspective, it would go back even further.  By 1994, Suge was becoming more involved in the product.  Where Dre was originally in charge of creatively overseeing projects, Suge was moving away from simply being the business end and influencing album content more.  “Murder Was The Case” was largely supposed to be a presentation of Snoop and his stable of artists from Long Beach, Suge pushing to add Danny Boy, DJ Quik, Young Soldierz, and other artists he was representing on the finished project.  

Quote
Daz was allover "All Eyez On Me"
 
True but keep in mind that a lot of tracks for “All Eyez” were recorded for other projects and given to Pac so he could quickly put together his double album.  Also, if we are looking at timelines, Dre would have still have been in the “head of production” seat when this album was recorded.

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Daz & Tha Realest were recording together quite a bit, even two hand selected tracks were put on Chronic 2K of them and Daz was on Realest's solo album, so we know they were in the studio together quite a bit while Daz was the seasoned vet at the label 98-2000.

Hand selected by who?  

Also, here is Daz breaking down the creative process of “developing” Realest and Top Dogg and working on Chronic 2000….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezcpJUzO-m4&index=13&list=RDQMFAg34-wju5U
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: love33 on March 14, 2017, 03:52:06 PM
Quote
Daz & Tha Realest were recording together quite a bit, even two hand selected tracks were put on Chronic 2K of them and Daz was on Realest's solo album, so we know they were in the studio together quite a bit while Daz was the seasoned vet at the label 98-2000.

Hand selected by who?  

Also, here is Daz breaking down the creative process of “developing” Realest and Top Dogg and working on Chronic 2000….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezcpJUzO-m4&index=13&list=RDQMFAg34-wju5U

Suge picked all the tracks for the final Chronic 2000 version -- We know Daz is being dishonest here -- (First off, how does the Interviewer not know Daz was not on "2001", did he really need to ask that, I thought that was common knowledge for any fan who was alive at that time that Kurupt was the only cat on both albums -- if he didn't know, he could've looked that up before he did the interview) -- If I was interviewing, I would've said "You didn't 'fuck with them cats'? Then What about "Because of You Girl" video, "Way Too Real" and your work you were doing on Tha Realest album, what about "It's Going Down", and the production and tracks you guys recorded together?" -- this interviewer couldn't even figure out who was on the albums, and went in there unprepared -- Daz knew the name of the "Too Gangsta For Radio" album -- he is obviously very biter at how it went down when he departed the label (if you remember he went out as TGFR was being recorded, and then he went full "F Death Row" when he left and making all these diss tracks and mad at Kurupt for being on the label) -- he said they owed him money at the time and that's when all the diss stuff started happening -- so his account, is dishonest at best, and a good interviewer would hit him with hard questions instead of not even knowing who was on the albums!

i.e. How he could have asked Daz -----> "Oh The Fakest? You mean the guy you recorded with all these tracks <start naming off stuff they did> -- Then, "Do you have beef with him now? How did that happen? Cause you obviously didn't call him "Tha Fakest" when you guys were cool in 1999, shooting music videos together, when did you decide you guys weren't cool?"

Interviewer dropped the ball here!
Title: Re: Caught up in the Game (Daz version vs Doobie version)
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 14, 2017, 07:54:32 PM
Dude, you need to catch on to the fact that someone like Vlad ain't gonna care to ask about some rapper that most of his viewers are never going to know about.  The key point of the interview is about Dre and Suge and their competing "Chronic" albums.  This was put out around the time of the "Straight Outta Compton" movie.  Whether Vlad knew who Top Dogg and Realest are or not, he's not going to sidetrack the main topic to go in-depth about them.  Vlad is being an interviewer.  He's phrasing questions to get to the info that will attract the most viewers. 

The fact that you are passionate about obscure West Coast artists and projects does not mean that everything is "common knowledge".  Expecting him to go in-depth about Tha Realest is probably not going to happen.