West Coast Connection Forum

DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: love33 on March 11, 2017, 11:34:41 PM

Title: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 11, 2017, 11:34:41 PM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000 led by 2Pac's "Who Do U Believe In?" -- What was your favorite disc -- Disc 1 or Disc 2 -- And what was some of your favorite unreleased cuts that should have made the album?

I am going with Disc 1 -- I loved the track by E-40 -- it was such a pleasure to have E-40 open up the doors for the new Row era -- "I thought You Knew" was a banger, also the beat for Daz & Tha Realest track "It's Going Down" was crazy great!  I really enjoy when Daz & Tha Realest collab and lets hope we see this again in the future -- Instead of "Curiosity," I think they should have put "Can't Mobb Deep" or "Tha Last Circle" -- The two feature tracks for Top Dogg "Cindafella" and Soopafly "Like It Or Not" round out the first disc, along with the Pac gem "Who Do You Believe In"

Would have loved to see Top Dogg and Doctor Dre "Hoe Hopper" (couldn't because of legal issues) -- Tha Realest "Can't Mobb Deep" & "Takin Pictures in the Cemetary" & unreleased Kurupt "I Just Don't Bang No More" would've rounded out the second disc -- "Roll Wit Us" was a classic by Tha Dogg Pound and "OG to BG" -- the last 5 tracks of the second disc should've been so much better and they should've just stuck with Top Dogg, Daz, Tha Realest, and maybe some guest appearances -- the last 5 tracks on Disc 2 (that milkbone track and capricorn) made what I thought was an otherwise great album have a soft landing

Great guest appearances by Naughty By Nature, E-40, Ant Banks, and Scarface
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 12, 2017, 09:16:51 AM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Blood$ on March 12, 2017, 11:30:24 AM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

lmfao!
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: fucku on March 12, 2017, 12:03:30 PM
both not great
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: 2Relevant on March 12, 2017, 03:59:55 PM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

lmfao!

+2 this retard is really reaching  8)
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 12, 2017, 04:39:02 PM
+2 this retard is really reaching  8)
  If a Death Row rapper stood in the background of a local car dealership video in 1999, he'd probably spin it like, "He was getting a major push with lots of mainstream attention appearing in commercials that got major airplay".
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Blood$ on March 12, 2017, 09:09:07 PM
+2 this retard is really reaching  8)
  If a Death Row rapper stood in the background of a local car dealership video in 1999, he'd probably spin it like, "He was getting a major push with lots of mainstream attention appearing in commercials that got major airplay".

money lol
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: doggfather on March 13, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
neva heard this.
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 13, 2017, 10:35:52 PM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: bouli77 on March 13, 2017, 11:14:29 PM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup

doesn't change the fact that it didn't rock the charts, lol.
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 13, 2017, 11:25:06 PM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup

doesn't change the fact that it didn't rock the charts, lol.

800k isnt bad -- Chronic 2000 will sell more than Snoop's new album, wanna bet?
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: HighEyeCue on March 14, 2017, 05:47:04 AM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup

doesn't change the fact that it didn't rock the charts, lol.

800k isnt bad -- Chronic 2000 will sell more than Snoop's new album, wanna bet?

Snoop doubled those sales in 1999 with No Limit Top Dogg
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 14, 2017, 07:14:34 AM
E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup
 
It’s misleading to say that any of those artists released that album.  They are featured on it and it’s none of their best work.  Death Row has had far more impressive guest lists prior to this.  You are once again, doing the publicist thing.  An all-star lineup means nothing if it’s not strong, consistent material.  It’s not what you have, it’s how you use it.  Plenty of movies with all-star casts that completely suck.

800k isnt bad

You didn’t say “isn’t bad”.  You said it “rocked the charts”.  There is a world of difference between the phrasing here.

Chronic 2000 will sell more than Snoop's new album, wanna bet?

That’s a pointless comparison to even make.  Different time, different economy, different musical landscape, drastically different means of selling/promoting music.   Are you really that oblivious to “context” that you would think this is a reasonable comparison?

But allow me to point out a couple things.  800k is the total number of units sold during its recorded peak period (probably anywhere from 1 year to 3).  Since it is a double album, that means it actually sold something like 400,000 physical copies.  Snoop’s “Game is to Be Sold” sold over 500,000 physical copies in its first week alone.  “Dr. Dre Presents The Aftermath” and “Tha Doggfather” both sold over a million copies.  All of Snoop’s albums until about 2006 all have sold over one million copies. 
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Blood$ on March 14, 2017, 09:36:35 AM
From the Gold selling album that rocked the charts in 2000.

Rocked the charts?  Mother fucker please!  You're really pushing to be the publicist for the revisionist history of a defunct label.

E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup

doesn't change the fact that it didn't rock the charts, lol.

800k isnt bad -- Chronic 2000 will sell more than Snoop's new album, wanna bet?

show us the receipt for 800K units sold lol that shit was a brick
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: S.J on March 14, 2017, 10:45:57 AM
I liked Chronic 2000 I used to listen to it alot. This may not be a popular opinion on here but I always liked the tracks by Tha Realest and Top Dogg the most. Disc 1 is definitely better. Theres only about 6 good tracks on disc 2
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 14, 2017, 02:23:25 PM
E-40, Scarface, Treach, Dogg Pound, Ant Banks, and Pac if I said those names were leasing a compilation record, thats an all star lineup
 
It’s misleading to say that any of those artists released that album.  They are featured on it and it’s none of their best work.  Death Row has had far more impressive guest lists prior to this.  You are once again, doing the publicist thing.  An all-star lineup means nothing if it’s not strong, consistent material.  It’s not what you have, it’s how you use it.  Plenty of movies with all-star casts that completely suck.

800k isnt bad

You didn’t say “isn’t bad”.  You said it “rocked the charts”.  There is a world of difference between the phrasing here.

Chronic 2000 will sell more than Snoop's new album, wanna bet?

That’s a pointless comparison to even make.  Different time, different economy, different musical landscape, drastically different means of selling/promoting music.   Are you really that oblivious to “context” that you would think this is a reasonable comparison?

But allow me to point out a couple things.  800k is the total number of units sold during its recorded peak period (probably anywhere from 1 year to 3).  Since it is a double album, that means it actually sold something like 400,000 physical copies.  Snoop’s “Game is to Be Sold” sold over 500,000 physical copies in its first week alone.  “Dr. Dre Presents The Aftermath” and “Tha Doggfather” both sold over a million copies.  All of Snoop’s albums until about 2006 all have sold over one million copies. 


Because it's a double unit, it counts as 2 units per sale -- they mentioned on the Official Death Row Records Website and Suge mentioned that Chronic 2000 is Gold
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 14, 2017, 02:31:36 PM
I liked Chronic 2000 I used to listen to it alot. This may not be a popular opinion on here but I always liked the tracks by Tha Realest and Top Dogg the most. Disc 1 is definitely better. Theres only about 6 good tracks on disc 2

I used to post on this board years ago (check my profile, been a member for a long minute), and it seems there used to be A LOT more people on this forum who loved Soopafly, Realest, YGD, Crooked, Doobie, K9, & Eastwood -- the last year or so, I notice there's A LOT of Haters now for some reason who actually hate the Second Death Row Generation (they like the First Death Row Generation, but they hate the second) and will go above and beyond to smear them (some people post some really good objective posts and criticism to be fair, but there's a lot of pure hate "i.e. The Fakest" "Snoop clone," etc. -- The forum has changed A LOT for some reason, maybe a lot of the people who were here before left too back in the day and the new members aren't into it as much -- Case & point, this topic (I ask a simple question which disc you like better and all I hear is "Snoop's was better, that album laid a brick, you're misleading those artists really didn't try hard, etc.)
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 14, 2017, 02:35:23 PM
Quote
It’s misleading to say that any of those artists released that album.  They are featured on it and it’s none of their best work.

Scarface, Pac, & Treach's name were allover the promo material alongside Dre & Snoop before they pulled them off
Treach was on the radio promoting it talking about how he's going to be on The Chronic 2000, he was on Big Boy radio talking about how he's opening up the door for the brand new Row with all the new talent

Don't know how that's misleading?
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Blood$ on March 14, 2017, 02:40:24 PM
I liked Chronic 2000 I used to listen to it alot. This may not be a popular opinion on here but I always liked the tracks by Tha Realest and Top Dogg the most. Disc 1 is definitely better. Theres only about 6 good tracks on disc 2

I used to post on this board years ago (check my profile, been a member for a long minute), and it seems there used to be A LOT more people on this forum who loved Soopafly, Realest, YGD, Crooked, Doobie, K9, & Eastwood -- the last year or so, I notice there's A LOT of Haters now for some reason who actually hate the Second Death Row Generation (they like the First Death Row Generation, but they hate the second) and will go above and beyond to smear them (some people post some really good objective posts and criticism to be fair, but there's a lot of pure hate "i.e. The Fakest" "Snoop clone," etc. -- The forum has changed A LOT for some reason, maybe a lot of the people who were here before left too back in the day and the new members aren't into it as much -- Case & point, this topic (I ask a simple question which disc you like better and all I hear is "Snoop's was better, that album laid a brick, you're misleading those artists really didn't try hard, etc.)

because Soopafly, Crooked I, and Eastwood were the only original rappers not riding the dick of another rapper reaching for fame lol K9 had a few cool joints but he became a joke once he started doing his YouTube rants (which were hilarious though)

still waiting on that receipt that says the album sold 800K, any quote from Suge is disqualified... shit barely went Gold if anything which technically means only 250K people bought it in the end, brick status lol
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 14, 2017, 03:00:52 PM
I liked Chronic 2000 I used to listen to it alot. This may not be a popular opinion on here but I always liked the tracks by Tha Realest and Top Dogg the most. Disc 1 is definitely better. Theres only about 6 good tracks on disc 2

I used to post on this board years ago (check my profile, been a member for a long minute), and it seems there used to be A LOT more people on this forum who loved Soopafly, Realest, YGD, Crooked, Doobie, K9, & Eastwood -- the last year or so, I notice there's A LOT of Haters now for some reason who actually hate the Second Death Row Generation (they like the First Death Row Generation, but they hate the second) and will go above and beyond to smear them (some people post some really good objective posts and criticism to be fair, but there's a lot of pure hate "i.e. The Fakest" "Snoop clone," etc. -- The forum has changed A LOT for some reason, maybe a lot of the people who were here before left too back in the day and the new members aren't into it as much -- Case & point, this topic (I ask a simple question which disc you like better and all I hear is "Snoop's was better, that album laid a brick, you're misleading those artists really didn't try hard, etc.)

because Soopafly, Crooked I, and Eastwood were the only original rappers not riding the dick of another rapper reaching for fame lol K9 had a few cool joints but he became a joke once he started doing his YouTube rants (which were hilarious though)

still waiting on that receipt that says the album sold 800K, any quote from Suge is disqualified... shit barely went Gold if anything which technically means only 250K people bought it in the end, brick status lol

Debuting in the Top 10 on the Billboard 200 is rocking the charts!

"[Chronic 2000] went gold and debuted in the top 10 on Billboard..."   
Source:  http://www.stereogum.com/1878027/bootleg-tupac-the-chronic-2000-suges-psychotic-revenge-the-weird-forgotten-final-days-of-death-row-records/franchises/weird-90s/

The Death Row website also reported it as GOLD and MTV a few times mentioned it was GOLD, after mentioning Dre's album was certified 5x platinum
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 14, 2017, 07:21:52 PM
Scarface, Pac, & Treach's name were allover the promo material alongside Dre & Snoop before they pulled them off
Treach was on the radio promoting it talking about how he's going to be on The Chronic 2000, he was on Big Boy radio talking about how he's opening up the door for the brand new Row with all the new talent


Show me a link to any of these Treach interviews and then we'll talk.  Until then, I will remain skeptical. 


Debuting in the Top 10 on the Billboard 200 is rocking the charts!

"[Chronic 2000] went gold and debuted in the top 10 on Billboard..."   
Source:  http://www.stereogum.com/1878027/bootleg-tupac-the-chronic-2000-suges-psychotic-revenge-the-weird-forgotten-final-days-of-death-row-records/franchises/weird-90s/
 

Its peak position on the Billboard 200 was #11.  It was a modest success at the time but "rocking the charts" is a bit of a stretch.
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 14, 2017, 07:33:29 PM
Also, Realest "Takin' Pictures in Cemetary" was recorded in late 2000 as was "Can't Mobb Deep". Realest was promoting these songs after the release of "Too Gangsta For Radio".
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: b.laden on March 15, 2017, 06:21:07 AM
Disk 1 is tight , far better in my opinion .i still listen to it .damn, i miss these days..
now everybody and their mama is listen to gangsta rap..LMAO
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: HighEyeCue on March 15, 2017, 06:28:49 AM
I liked Chronic 2000 I used to listen to it alot. This may not be a popular opinion on here but I always liked the tracks by Tha Realest and Top Dogg the most. Disc 1 is definitely better. Theres only about 6 good tracks on disc 2

I used to post on this board years ago (check my profile, been a member for a long minute), and it seems there used to be A LOT more people on this forum who loved Soopafly, Realest, YGD, Crooked, Doobie, K9, & Eastwood -- the last year or so, I notice there's A LOT of Haters now for some reason who actually hate the Second Death Row Generation (they like the First Death Row Generation, but they hate the second) and will go above and beyond to smear them (some people post some really good objective posts and criticism to be fair, but there's a lot of pure hate "i.e. The Fakest" "Snoop clone," etc. -- The forum has changed A LOT for some reason, maybe a lot of the people who were here before left too back in the day and the new members aren't into it as much -- Case & point, this topic (I ask a simple question which disc you like better and all I hear is "Snoop's was better, that album laid a brick, you're misleading those artists really didn't try hard, etc.)

because Soopafly, Crooked I, and Eastwood were the only original rappers not riding the dick of another rapper reaching for fame lol K9 had a few cool joints but he became a joke once he started doing his YouTube rants (which were hilarious though)

still waiting on that receipt that says the album sold 800K, any quote from Suge is disqualified... shit barely went Gold if anything which technically means only 250K people bought it in the end, brick status lol

Debuting in the Top 10 on the Billboard 200 is rocking the charts!

"[Chronic 2000] went gold and debuted in the top 10 on Billboard..."   
Source:  http://www.stereogum.com/1878027/bootleg-tupac-the-chronic-2000-suges-psychotic-revenge-the-weird-forgotten-final-days-of-death-row-records/franchises/weird-90s/

The Death Row website also reported it as GOLD and MTV a few times mentioned it was GOLD, after mentioning Dre's album was certified 5x platinum

Daz and Kurupt's first solo albums also debuted in the top 10, nobody would say that they rocked the charts tho :laugh:
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 16, 2017, 12:55:13 AM
I liked Chronic 2000 I used to listen to it alot. This may not be a popular opinion on here but I always liked the tracks by Tha Realest and Top Dogg the most. Disc 1 is definitely better. Theres only about 6 good tracks on disc 2

I used to post on this board years ago (check my profile, been a member for a long minute), and it seems there used to be A LOT more people on this forum who loved Soopafly, Realest, YGD, Crooked, Doobie, K9, & Eastwood -- the last year or so, I notice there's A LOT of Haters now for some reason who actually hate the Second Death Row Generation (they like the First Death Row Generation, but they hate the second) and will go above and beyond to smear them (some people post some really good objective posts and criticism to be fair, but there's a lot of pure hate "i.e. The Fakest" "Snoop clone," etc. -- The forum has changed A LOT for some reason, maybe a lot of the people who were here before left too back in the day and the new members aren't into it as much -- Case & point, this topic (I ask a simple question which disc you like better and all I hear is "Snoop's was better, that album laid a brick, you're misleading those artists really didn't try hard, etc.)

because Soopafly, Crooked I, and Eastwood were the only original rappers not riding the dick of another rapper reaching for fame lol K9 had a few cool joints but he became a joke once he started doing his YouTube rants (which were hilarious though)

still waiting on that receipt that says the album sold 800K, any quote from Suge is disqualified... shit barely went Gold if anything which technically means only 250K people bought it in the end, brick status lol

Debuting in the Top 10 on the Billboard 200 is rocking the charts!

"[Chronic 2000] went gold and debuted in the top 10 on Billboard..."   
Source:  http://www.stereogum.com/1878027/bootleg-tupac-the-chronic-2000-suges-psychotic-revenge-the-weird-forgotten-final-days-of-death-row-records/franchises/weird-90s/

The Death Row website also reported it as GOLD and MTV a few times mentioned it was GOLD, after mentioning Dre's album was certified 5x platinum

Daz and Kurupt's first solo albums also debuted in the top 10, nobody would say that they rocked the charts tho :laugh:

Dogg Pound's first two albums:  "Dogg Food" debuted at #1, so that was rocking the charts -- it ended up selling 3 or 4 million units --  "2002" debuted at #36 and sold around 400k-550k
"Dogg Food" tore up the charts -- tell me an artist right now putting up those numbers that Tha Dogg Pound put up!
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 16, 2017, 01:53:38 AM
Scarface, Pac, & Treach's name were allover the promo material alongside Dre & Snoop before they pulled them off
Treach was on the radio promoting it talking about how he's going to be on The Chronic 2000, he was on Big Boy radio talking about how he's opening up the door for the brand new Row with all the new talent


Show me a link to any of these Treach interviews and then we'll talk.  Until then, I will remain skeptical. 

I'm not sure if they even have Big Boy 1999 Interviews available anywhere online -- Treach was actually super close to signing with Death Row in 99 but he eventually just laid low

This is one of the trailers for Chronic 2000:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct3HAo1Wl8U

This is Treach freestyling and talking about Death Row
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEpyLn_Rdw

This is a great interview with Treach talking about 2Pac:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQYznbEnPM

This is Rick Clifford, Death Row engineer until Chronic 2000, talking about how he believes Treach was working with Tha Realest on Chronic 2000, and that Treach and others used Realest and Top Dogg to finish songs:
https://youtu.be/2qzvGQDxEPM
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 16, 2017, 02:02:37 PM
Treach was actually super close to signing with Death Row in 99 but he eventually just laid low

Once again, this sounds like you speculating without facts to back it up. 

This is Treach freestyling and talking about Death Row
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEpyLn_Rdw

He mentions them in one line as part of a rap and it has nothing to do with promoting Chronic 2000 or any projects.  He basically says he was holding it down for the East with Naughty By Nature while Death Row was dominating.  If someone mentions how Ja Rule dominated the radio waves in 2001 during one of their freestyles, I don’t qualify that as actively promoting Ja Rule’s current projects? You’re reaching big time on that one.

This is a great interview with Treach talking about 2Pac:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQYznbEnPM

You’re starting to veer off-topic now.  It’s a cool interview but it has nothing to do with the discussion.  I’m aware that Treach was one of Pac’s closest friends in the industry but that’s a whole other topic.  Everything discussed here is from their early days when they were touring in 1991 and when they both went out for roles in Juice.

This is Rick Clifford, Death Row engineer until Chronic 2000, talking about how he believes Treach was working with Tha Realest on Chronic 2000, and that Treach and others used Realest and Top Dogg to finish songs:
https://youtu.be/2qzvGQDxEPM

He mentions Treach having him adlib like Pac.  Fun tidbit but we already know Treach was working with Death Row.  This is your usual bait-and-switch.  Obviously if Treach was on both Chronic 2000 and Too Gangsta For Radio, he was working with Death Row.  I asked you for evidence of him promoting Chronic 2000 on the radio. 
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 16, 2017, 11:42:52 PM
How am I supposed to dig up old Treach interviews from 1999 with Big Boy? You gotta be kidding me --
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 17, 2017, 07:07:21 PM
How am I supposed to dig up old Treach interviews from 1999 with Big Boy? You gotta be kidding me --

I don't expect you to.  Just reading your interpretations of the interviews you posted suggests to me that an exaggerated version of an interview you remember from 18 years ago would probably be nothing like how you describe it anyway.  Your recollections of things seem to border on delusional. 

I think the Rick Clifford interview is actually one of the better descriptions of the downfall of Death Row.  He seems pretty knowledgeable on the issues that Death Row had during the "Chronic 2000" period.  From the interview he spotted and diagnosed all the problems that plagued that label in 1998-99 from trying to cash in on the "Chronic" name without Dre's involvement, focusing on rappers who were imitations of former artists, and firing up the new roster to diss the old one.  Clifford, who was actually there, is not speaking about how this was a fresh roster that got blackballed and was on the verge of being at the top of the rap game.  He's breaking it down in real terms.  Death Row weren't held back by the establishment.  They made the wrong moves. 
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 17, 2017, 09:54:49 PM
How am I supposed to dig up old Treach interviews from 1999 with Big Boy? You gotta be kidding me --

I don't expect you to.  Just reading your interpretations of the interviews you posted suggests to me that an exaggerated version of an interview you remember from 18 years ago would probably be nothing like how you describe it anyway.  Your recollections of things seem to border on delusional. 

I think the Rick Clifford interview is actually one of the better descriptions of the downfall of Death Row.  He seems pretty knowledgeable on the issues that Death Row had during the "Chronic 2000" period.  From the interview he spotted and diagnosed all the problems that plagued that label in 1998-99 from trying to cash in on the "Chronic" name without Dre's involvement, focusing on rappers who were imitations of former artists, and firing up the new roster to diss the old one.  Clifford, who was actually there, is not speaking about how this was a fresh roster that got blackballed and was on the verge of being at the top of the rap game.  He's breaking it down in real terms.  Death Row weren't held back by the establishment.  They made the wrong moves. 

Clifford says on there if Crooked dropped in 96, he would have blew up and been huge -- 96 is obviously when the label ran the whole rap game and had Interscope pushing them hard -- Crooked I also tweeted out just recently that Irv Gotti was doing a lot to try to help him behind the scenes that a lot of people didn't know about -- Danny Boy said Suge got pissed off because of this in another interview, but check the Crooked I Twitter and scroll back about a month and you'll see 3 Tweets on there of how Irv Gotti was doing a lot for his career to push him

The old o2 Death Row Fan Site had a story on there about Treach being in talks with the label, and the old forum admin Miles and Nate did a post about Treach -- he just got cold feet and backed out

Death Row was dumb not to release the albums (and I'm sure the bad distribution deal with Koch and d3 had something to do with it, Suge was trying to do a platinum album without the support of a MAJOR or having to digest their input on his records and share in the publishing, but the real money would've been selling the tracks/albums on the website) -- they were going to struggle getting radio spins with those distributors -- why record all these thousands of tracks and just let them collect dust -- no label ever made a killing sitting on all their music -- the best thing they could've done is put on them on the Official Death Row Records website and sell them for 55 cents each and let the viewers sample a 15 second snippet before they buy -- they already had a house name and a fanbase, plus their most hardcore fans were on that website and would've bought the music (they would've at least made SOMETHING on these tracks, instead of ZERO) -- but then again, like Clifford said, they weren't even showing up for court and they were running the business into the ground -- it just doesn't make ANY sense to sit on thousands of singles and hundreds of albums with ZERO return!  The Lisa "NINA" Lopes & Crooked I albums would've sold at the very least!
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 18, 2017, 10:05:29 AM
Death Row was dumb not to release the albums (and I'm sure the bad distribution deal with Koch and d3 had something to do with it, Suge was trying to do a platinum album without the support of a MAJOR or having to digest their input on his records and share in the publishing, but the real money would've been selling the tracks/albums on the website) -- they were going to struggle getting radio spins with those distributors -- why record all these thousands of tracks and just let them collect dust -- no label ever made a killing sitting on all their music -- the best thing they could've done is put on them on the Official Death Row Records website and sell them for 55 cents each and let the viewers sample a 15 second snippet before they buy -- they already had a house name and a fanbase, plus their most hardcore fans were on that website and would've bought the music (they would've at least made SOMETHING on these tracks, instead of ZERO) -- but then again, like Clifford said, they weren't even showing up for court and they were running the business into the ground -- it just doesn't make ANY sense to sit on thousands of singles and hundreds of albums with ZERO return!  The Lisa "NINA" Lopes & Crooked I albums would've sold at the very least!

I don't think it was necessarily a poor distribution deal.  The albums were available in all the major retail stores.  It wasn't a major label but they were capable of functioning without one.  I would also be inclined to disagree that the real money would have been in selling the music through the website. 

I think had the roster been built around Big Hutch as a producer and Crooked I as a flagship artist from jump, they might have had a better chance.  The introduction of Tupac/Snoop biters on Chronic 2k and dedicating so much time and energy into attacking the former Death Row artists on the Death Row Uncut video and subsequent Too Gangsta For Radio album really took the energy in the wrong direction.  Crooked I had the skills to be a great talent but his label burned a lot of bridges that could have helped him. 
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 18, 2017, 10:47:52 PM
Death Row was dumb not to release the albums (and I'm sure the bad distribution deal with Koch and d3 had something to do with it, Suge was trying to do a platinum album without the support of a MAJOR or having to digest their input on his records and share in the publishing, but the real money would've been selling the tracks/albums on the website) -- they were going to struggle getting radio spins with those distributors -- why record all these thousands of tracks and just let them collect dust -- no label ever made a killing sitting on all their music -- the best thing they could've done is put on them on the Official Death Row Records website and sell them for 55 cents each and let the viewers sample a 15 second snippet before they buy -- they already had a house name and a fanbase, plus their most hardcore fans were on that website and would've bought the music (they would've at least made SOMETHING on these tracks, instead of ZERO) -- but then again, like Clifford said, they weren't even showing up for court and they were running the business into the ground -- it just doesn't make ANY sense to sit on thousands of singles and hundreds of albums with ZERO return!  The Lisa "NINA" Lopes & Crooked I albums would've sold at the very least!

I don't think it was necessarily a poor distribution deal.  The albums were available in all the major retail stores.  It wasn't a major label but they were capable of functioning without one.  I would also be inclined to disagree that the real money would have been in selling the music through the website. 

I think had the roster been built around Big Hutch as a producer and Crooked I as a flagship artist from jump, they might have had a better chance.  The introduction of Tupac/Snoop biters on Chronic 2k and dedicating so much time and energy into attacking the former Death Row artists on the Death Row Uncut video and subsequent Too Gangsta For Radio album really took the energy in the wrong direction.  Crooked I had the skills to be a great talent but his label burned a lot of bridges that could have helped him. 

I don't think Top Dogg was a "biter" -- he just has the "Dogg" in his name and it makes it sound like he's saying he's the Top Dogg (and not Snoop) -- he was YGD before -- and if you called "Young Derek" or whatever nobody would make this comparison, but it was just the temperament that Tha Realest was out and everyone pointed at his promos being similar to Pac's and the tattoos, so I would make the argument that Tha Realest image being compared to Pac's image conveniently opened the door for criticism for Top Dogg (i.e. "There's the fake Pac & Snoop and he's even called top DOGG") -- The "Cindafella" tracks being a competitive pissing contest and along with Top Dogg being put on Dre beats ("Hoe Hopper", the Columbine Track, etc.) and Pac tracks ("All About U", "Hating U", etc.) -- it was just too easy to make this assertion and it was convenient that he was put on those cuts and coupled with Tha Realest existence -- but I think if you be objective, I don't believe he's a "Snoop biter" but it's easy to say that the door was open for that criticism based on where the label planted him (Dre & Snoop material, and his name)

The dissing here and there wouldn't have been a bad thing necessarily, but if it became the sole purpose, that was a sting to Death Row's new talent -- why not just put the best music out, not just diss tracks -- Death Row Uncut was a cool compilation I thought -- Dysfunktional Family could have been way better

I think fans like myself would've coughed up the 55 cents and just said "Fuck it, might as well pay the 55 cents and get a CDQ version of the tracks I like" versus going around the net and looking for them for hours and days (they were harder to find back then, and it was like searching for a needle in the haystack but people had them)

They sat on Crooked I -- I remember he had the "Did You Ever Think Remix" and "Niggaz Got Game" someone from his camp leaked and had a small internet buzz -- Danny Boy said when Crook released that mix tape (the one that had the Snoop disses and then the "Me Against The World [Nu Mixx Remix]" leaked that Suge was pissed behind the scenes and didn't want his artists to leak out a bunch of music), then he talked about how the Irv Gotti thing might've set Suge off to blackball Crooked and smile in his face (DB said this was a Signature Suge move, just put someone's career in stalemate while he keeps stringing them along telling them the albums are coming soon, but could also be DB just being biter about his own situation) -- apparently DB sas saying that mixtape, even though it had a bunch of Death Row mentions, was not blessed in its entirety by the label -- Suge would argue in any case that he doesn't like to kill an artists buzz, but at this time, the game was becoming so mixtape heavy that it looked bad that Death Row had really not released any mixtapes or any material
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 19, 2017, 12:57:13 PM
I don't think Top Dogg was a "biter" -- he just has the "Dogg" in his name and it makes it sound like he's saying he's the Top Dogg (and not Snoop) -- he was YGD before -- and if you called "Young Derek" or whatever nobody would make this comparison, but it was just the temperament that Tha Realest was out and everyone pointed at his promos being similar to Pac's and the tattoos, so I would make the argument that Tha Realest image being compared to Pac's image conveniently opened the door for criticism for Top Dogg (i.e. "There's the fake Pac & Snoop and he's even called top DOGG") -- The "Cindafella" tracks being a competitive pissing contest and along with Top Dogg being put on Dre beats ("Hoe Hopper", the Columbine Track, etc.) and Pac tracks ("All About U", "Hating U", etc.) -- it was just too easy to make this assertion and it was convenient that he was put on those cuts and coupled with Tha Realest existence -- but I think if you be objective, I don't believe he's a "Snoop biter" but it's easy to say that the door was open for that criticism based on where the label planted him (Dre & Snoop material, and his name)

Death Row was clearly pushing him to bite Snoop’s image and were presenting him in a way that promoted that. 

The dissing here and there wouldn't have been a bad thing necessarily, but if it became the sole purpose, that was a sting to Death Row's new talent -- why not just put the best music out, not just diss tracks.
 

I think it was bad for business.  It became what Death Row was about and it made them look bitter, out of touch, and exploitive to a lot of people.  It was particularly problematic in this instance because they were recruiting new artists to go at their own former talent.  It becomes a different ball game when you start trying to bring down artists that you helped build.  It was additionally problematic because the deaths of Pac and Biggie were still so fresh. 

It not only divided the fan bases but it kept a lot of people from working with the new Death Row.  In the past, people would fuck with them regardless of their beefs with Ruthless or Bad Boy because they had the hottest talent (Dre, Snoop, Pac) but once the label disbanded, there was no incentive for the younger West artists who had a buzz to go against Dre/Snoop to work with someone like Crooked I. It’s not even the Dre and Snoop features, it’s DJ Quik, Nate Dogg, Xzibit, etc.

I think fans like myself would've coughed up the 55 cents and just said "Fuck it, might as well pay the 55 cents and get a CDQ version of the tracks I like" versus going around the net and looking for them for hours and days (they were harder to find back then, and it was like searching for a needle in the haystack but people had them)
 

But that’s not a lucrative business model in my opinion. At that time, physical media was still selling.  They may not have had a major label backing them but their distribution through Koch/D3 got them shelf space with nearly every decent music retail.  55 cents a song for a hundred or so people on a message board would have been arguably pointless.  Half of the people on the message board would have just downloaded the MP3 from the people who bought it.  At that rate, they could put up 15 songs on a CD and sell it to 20,000 people at $12-15 retail. 

Suge would argue in any case that he doesn't like to kill an artists buzz, but at this time, the game was becoming so mixtape heavy that it looked bad that Death Row had really not released any mixtapes or any material.
 

They released one mixtape on their website, the Crooked one, with “Stop Snitchin” set to R. Kelly’s “Ignition” but at that point, they seemed behind the game in a lot of ways.  Mixtapes were definitely a good source of promo but the beefing put things in an awkward spot.  They’d aligned with Benzino and Murder Inc at a time when Shady/Aftermath/G-Unit were the top dogs on the mixtape scene.  Afeni had full control of Tupac’s music at this point so people no longer had to go to Suge to get Pac material so he wasn’t in a position to build the kind of partnerships in the industry that he once had. 
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Okka on March 19, 2017, 04:14:51 PM
Does anybody know why Big Boy was talking shit about Dre on "Chronic 2000"? Did they have beef?
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on March 19, 2017, 04:36:45 PM
Does anybody know why Big Boy was talking shit about Dre on "Chronic 2000"? Did they have beef?
I've wondered that myself.  I don't think there was beef.  Him and Dre seem to have a very good relationship.
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jamal Ginsberg on March 19, 2017, 04:48:42 PM
DR did rob Crook of a career as his talent as an MC in the 90s was off the chain as he had charisma, a great flow and could've been somebody. Instead they locked his ass in the vault and the modern Crook via Slaugterhouse (yes I spelled it correctly, at least according to the walking thesaurus tyrannosaurs talking) is simply all rapped out and lacks pretty much all of the talent/spark that made him so interesting during his DPG/DR days.

Also side splitting mirth at anyone who believes that "Realest finished Pac songs/overdubbed his vocals" crap because my homie we the last ones left shows you how much of a travesty this was when they attempted it and I ain't trying to be troublesome homie but even a tone def idiot can tell the handful of times they tried to use him as his voice has a totally different timbre and texture compared to the real thing and stands out a mile off.

I still look at that whole 2nd dynasty era wondering WTF Suge was smoking, like did he think he could just pull a bait and switch with the two biggest starts on his label and no one would notice a damn thing? Can you imagine how surreal it must have been for the old team/engineers/studio hands/label staff to see them two walking around like it ain't a thing?
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: 2Relevant on March 20, 2017, 06:52:29 AM
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 22, 2017, 10:56:16 PM
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

Are you kidding? Treach is one of the Greatest Rappers of all time -- Naughty By Nature is a monster group that has a ton of hits, "OPP", "Written on ya Kitten", "Feels Good", "Feel Me Flow", "Mourn You Til I Join You" Pac Tribute -- You must be one of those kids who wasn't around then or didn't follow rap -- Naughty By Nature was everywhere, they were huge -- Kenny Lofton used "Feel Me Flow" as his music for the Cleveland Indians -- Eminem said Treach is one of the greatest rappers of all time -- I can't believe I'm reading this -- there's not too many lyrically that can go head to head with him -- Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 22, 2017, 11:10:52 PM
Quote
But that’s not a lucrative business model in my opinion. At that time, physical media was still selling.  They may not have had a major label backing them but their distribution through Koch/D3 got them shelf space with nearly every decent music retail.  55 cents a song for a hundred or so people on a message board would have been arguably pointless.  Half of the people on the message board would have just downloaded the MP3 from the people who bought it.  At that rate, they could put up 15 songs on a CD and sell it to 20,000 people at $12-15 retail. 
I'm not sure, Death Row released the Snoop album on their website and it still sold -- Why did they not take advantage of Koch/D3 and put it out there just to make something off it?  Was this just bad business or do you think it's because Suge didn't want an album to risk not selling and having his name on it opening the door for other artists to diss poor sales (a lot of people said that's why he released compilations instead of solo albums to try out the artists)
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: 2Relevant on March 23, 2017, 05:45:26 AM
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

 Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage

yeah those songs are from early 90s what else that's right nothing nobody knows him and fuck Eminem Treach is a failed solo artist that never sold shit last thing his group did was go gold in 99

tired of hearing "greatest artist"" legend" "classic" thrown around just cause an artist been around forever doesn't make them any of that
and you say " Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage" 
and thats coming from a retard who thinks  Chronic 2000 was a hit and top fake and tha fakest were stars :D
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: 2Relevant on March 23, 2017, 05:47:56 AM
Quote
But that’s not a lucrative business model in my opinion. At that time, physical media was still selling.  They may not have had a major label backing them but their distribution through Koch/D3 got them shelf space with nearly every decent music retail.  55 cents a song for a hundred or so people on a message board would have been arguably pointless.  Half of the people on the message board would have just downloaded the MP3 from the people who bought it.  At that rate, they could put up 15 songs on a CD and sell it to 20,000 people at $12-15 retail. 
I'm not sure, Death Row released the Snoop album on their website and it still sold -- Why did they not take advantage of Koch/D3 and put it out there just to make something off it?  Was this just bad business or do you think it's because Suge didn't want an album to risk not selling and having his name on it opening the door for other artists to diss poor sales (a lot of people said that's why he released compilations instead of solo albums to try out the artists)

cause those "artist" were garbage
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: love33 on March 23, 2017, 10:14:30 PM
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

 Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage

yeah those songs are from early 90s what else that's right nothing nobody knows him and fuck Eminem Treach is a failed solo artist that never sold shit last thing his group did was go gold in 99

tired of hearing "greatest artist"" legend" "classic" thrown around just cause an artist been around forever doesn't make them any of that
and you say " Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage" 
and thats coming from a retard who thinks  Chronic 2000 was a hit and top fake and tha fakest were stars :D

Hey Dopey, If Eminem says he's one of the Top artists of all time, he's one of the best of all time period!
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: 2Relevant on March 24, 2017, 05:47:04 AM
even if Treach would of signed he would have made zero impact  

1, hes a nobody only known as 2pacs friend and Naughty By Natures Hip Hop hooray which was from 93

2. failed solo artist    

 Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage

yeah those songs are from early 90s what else that's right nothing nobody knows him and fuck Eminem Treach is a failed solo artist that never sold shit last thing his group did was go gold in 99

tired of hearing "greatest artist"" legend" "classic" thrown around just cause an artist been around forever doesn't make them any of that
and you say " Pretty sad someone would actually write this garbage" 
and thats coming from a retard who thinks  Chronic 2000 was a hit and top fake and tha fakest were stars :D

Hey Dopey, If Eminem says he's one of the Top artists of all time, he's one of the best of all time period!

again fuck Eminem
Title: Re: Chronic 2000: First Disc vs. Second Disc
Post by: Jay Wallace on April 05, 2017, 04:38:28 PM
I'm not sure, Death Row released the Snoop album on their website and it still sold -- Why did they not take advantage of Koch/D3 and put it out there just to make something off it?  Was this just bad business or do you think it's because Suge didn't want an album to risk not selling and having his name on it opening the door for other artists to diss poor sales (a lot of people said that's why he released compilations instead of solo albums to try out the artists)
  What Snoop album are you talking about?  Dead Man Walking?  They did put that out.