West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: ITW [the irish boy] on May 27, 2003, 11:28:35 AM
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Here in ireland we have free education for first second and third level. This means that everyone can go to college and as a result we have a very skilled workforce. However last week the minister for education announced he wanted to withdraw it for people who are able to pay. This has caused absolute uproar. The governments popularity dropped 25percentage points in two days and the minister has had to do a complete u-turn and say he will instead put extra grants into disadvantaged areas. What do you think? Is it a fundamentl right for education? In Ireland, we cant imagine a situation where u have to pay for college, or healthcare. What is the situation in other countries?When the minister even mentioned reintroducing them he wasnearly shouted out of office, do you think he was right or wrong?
My belief : The very rich, earning over 80000 a year should be made to pay, since many low income families dont go to college and therefore shouldnt have to pay thru taxes for the rich to go. I welcome this u-turn where there remain no fees and the disadvantaged will get grants to go to college.
Your views....
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free education is a bless.
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the education system is a bunch of bull shit in the U.S., boy it really pisses me off...you cant go to elite shools unless your parents(who have nothing to do with you) have tons of money...i went to a decent college(Penn St.) and am not almost 20g's in debt..and will be paying it for 10 fucking years...im done complaining about it... >:(
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i think higher learning should be paid for, only the basics should be "free" (come from taxes) k-12 should no doubt be free but you should pay for college and if you can't afford it apply for financial aid and grants ect. and BOO FUCKING HOO if you can't go to harvard or yale fine things should be exclusive or they're not fine anymore, that's like bitching cuz you got to get a regular corvette instead of a z06 , and on top of that demanding to have it for free
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well, what we have here is a points system, whereby your acceptance to universities and colleges is based on your academic ability, rather than ability to pay. While you can argue that its unfair against less intelligent people, it means the "finer" courses like brain surgery etc are only accessible if your are highly intelligent.
Someone above said its a blessing, and it is. While you might think the government is losing out from paying all those fees think of the long term benefits gained...20% of working class in college, 97% of middle and upper class in college. It attracts huge amounts of investment and jobs as a result and has seen our economy have a 5year boom period making us one of the richest in europe. It certainly beats having just a few rich kids leaving college without a debt.
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well the current education system in the U.S. keeps the rich rich and the poor poor >:(
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i think higher learning should be paid for, only the basics should be "free" (come from taxes) k-12 should no doubt be free but you should pay for college and if you can't afford it apply for financial aid and grants ect. and BOO FUCKING HOO if you can't go to harvard or yale fine things should be exclusive or they're not fine anymore, that's like bitching cuz you got to get a regular corvette instead of a z06 , and on top of that demanding to have it for free
As VerbalAssaulta says - that system makes sure the elites stay at the top - the rich kids get everything given to them (such as the current Pres - nowhere near intelligent enough to go to the schools he did but it's all about the money your parents have)
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I agree. Your access to education should not be reliant on your ability to pay for the higher charging courses. I believe in free education throughout school and college life. I do also believe that University should be paid for, but not the frees which are charged here in britan. I was reading some sort of article and they say the average student who finishes a average 3 year course will be in a huge amout of debt.. I cant remember the exact figure,, i think it was over £5k.
Out of interest.... What level of education has everyone had? and/or what are they planning. I have jsut finished school and i am definatly going onto college, and most likley university.
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Gareefa, i think the average student leaves University with a £10,000 debt for a 3 year course.
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just to go back to "keeping fine things fine"
in academic terms, would things not be finer if there was a higher level of intelligence rather than money???
I plan to go to Pulse Recording College to study sound engineering for a year. Then i plan to do a marketing course for 2 yrs so i can 1. get a job and 2. have a business background so i can start up myself or move into management.
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Gareefa, i think the average student leaves University with a £10,000 debt for a 3 year course.
I thought it was somethin like that but i didnt wanna say it cause i wasnt 2 sure..
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fuck da education in amerika man they only be helpin da white people aint no fuckin mexicans up in college n shit they go to like contineuation skool and get there ged wtf and da white ppl be up in like harverd n shit
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You obviously paid attention in school Hater Player
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fuck da education in amerika man they only be helpin da white people aint no fuckin mexicans up in college n shit they go to like contineuation skool and get there ged wtf and da white ppl be up in like harverd n shit
i hate to break it to you pal but i'm mexican i'm in college and my cousin in phoenix went to Princeton....god y'all act like fine colleges won't help you find a way to pay for your college, my cousin is a damn einstein and he had a chance to go to USC, Stanford, Princeton, and i think yale....my aunt and uncle wern't exactly rich niether but he applied for a grip of grants and got all sorts of scholorships that helped pay for damn near all of his college debts...man you people just like to bitch like little girls i hate to bring the race card in to this but between black people and foriegn white people y'all bitch way too god damn much
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i remember some of yall foos claimin some time ago that education in usa is free ??!!!!
good thing i live in Sweden... im currently in University ... for free... Sweden is the country of hope... anybody can study.. for free.... if i remember correct, only Sweden and Cuba can offer something like that...
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and the republic of ireland ;D
@ Don ... Its great your in college, but the fact remains in most countries less than 20% of disadvantaged go to college, and that needs to be changed. And its not always the governments fault. Attitudes need to change in poorer areas, maybe by giving families grants for their kids going to college, because most of the time they will be forcing their kids to work immediatly instead of study another year or two.And the fact is, the more red tape involved in getting grants etc, the less people will be bothered, especially if they feel educationally inferior themselves.
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After thinking about it... In a way higher education which requires pay can be good for society in general. Usually, the less able people are born to poorer families (i know this is a BIG genralisation) but as they are less able they will be able to take the jobs that the more able people wont do. This sounds harsh but if everyone was entitled to free higher education they would end up eventually becomming educated enough to get a well paid job. This would reduce the number of people in our Primary and Secondary job sectors. Such as factory workers, road sweepers, shop assistants, and other stuff... Does anyone get what im saying?
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i remember some of yall foos claimin some time ago that education in usa is free ??!!!!
good thing i live in Sweden... im currently in University ... for free... Sweden is the country of hope... anybody can study.. for free.... if i remember correct, only Sweden and Cuba can offer something like that...
yeah education is free in the united states of america kindergarden -your senior year of highschool is cost free, 13 years of education . college can be free if you qualify for financial aid and special grants and crap....i qualify for financial aid i got 3 1,000 bucks scolarships for scoring high in some end of the year test every h.s californian has to take 3 more 2500 dollar golden state exam grants like 5 500 dollar grants just for being of latino origin, 1 1000 dollar scholarship for working 30 plus hours (which is cool cuz i only work that much to pass the time and have money to build up my car) and grant from my school for having an overall GPA of 3.75 throughout highschool. i'm a minority, i live in east bakersfield , and i work hard, and college is pretty much set for me yo so get that out of your head that the US is just bad off when it comes to college.
ITW-you brought up a good point, it's not nec. the governments fault the disadvantaged dont' go to college! fuck the governement is practically paying me like it's a 2nd job to go lol and i didn't have to do much but get A's here in there. IF ANYTHING it's the mindset in the area. I KNOW half of my graduating class is NOT going to graduate college cuz most of them HATE school or are too lazy to go out and find ways to have school payed for them. Also you got those kids who think 'hey i'm going to take a year off then go back" but then fall in love, and have kids and diminish their hopes.....people nowadays NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY YOUR FROM want to find a way out of school . and your a 100% right when you say that we need an attitude adjustment when it comes to school. Sure college might be expensive but it's probably the best investment you'll make cuz you'll make it all back . That's why i think college should be paid for ....or at least really strict about the terms of financial help (ex. if i slack off and get a C or lower i either have to pay 50% of the money back or all of it back and if i get B's and A's i'll be eligble for more money). If i was working in sweden getting half of my money taken out of my pay check just so everyone can go for free....i wouldn't have the things i have today like my car (that if you can't tell i love) and stuff like that...i'd just be going to school waving my little swedish flag saying "yay free school". But what am i doing now? i'm making money at my work (major money now cuz it's summer and i got a raise) i got myself some stuff AND i'll be going to college virtually free in the fall
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After thinking about it... In a way higher education which requires pay can be good for society in general. Usually, the less able people are born to poorer families (i know this is a BIG genralisation) but as they are less able they will be able to take the jobs that the more able people wont do. This sounds harsh but if everyone was entitled to free higher education they would end up eventually becomming educated enough to get a well paid job. This would reduce the number of people in our Primary and Secondary job sectors. Such as factory workers, road sweepers, shop assistants, and other stuff... Does anyone get what im saying?
i agree to an extent with that i don't really think poor people are less able, if anything , i mean just look at sports they're probably more than able than most if given the chance. but i agree that everyone rushing out to be a lawyer or doctor would make those jobs less exclusive ,meaning they might have DR. degree but it doesn't mean shit really cuz the job market is crowded with people trying to make a grip of cash so we basically have a bunch of potential doctors winding up doing hamburger CPR @burgerking
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After thinking about it... In a way higher education which requires pay can be good for society in general. Usually, the less able people are born to poorer families (i know this is a BIG genralisation) but as they are less able they will be able to take the jobs that the more able people wont do. This sounds harsh but if everyone was entitled to free higher education they would end up eventually becomming educated enough to get a well paid job. This would reduce the number of people in our Primary and Secondary job sectors. Such as factory workers, road sweepers, shop assistants, and other stuff... Does anyone get what im saying?
i agree to an extent with that i don't really think poor people are less able, if anything , i mean just look at sports they're probably more than able than most if given the chance.
Yeah.. I feel you but i did say acedemiclly able, which i meant as good at classes like English etc.. i dont concider PE an acedemic subject to a certain extent.
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Good points were made there by don and gareefa, though im not sure i agree with them all. Firstly, I dont feel the poor are less able, they simply dont have the same access to revision books, books at home etc. If you took all that away id say its equal.
Now you brought up a point that if the poor went to college there'd be no-one to do the shit jobs. Thats basically saying that your financial status should determine where you get in life. Over here 80% of shops etc employ under 18s in part time work and that doesnt change with extra education. What we have here is its based on your ability and ambition how far you go, and the ones that dont have that usually end up with the shit jobs.
Another argument was that you "flood" the law or doctor markets. This simply doesnt happen. The points here are so high to get there you have to be extremely intelligent, so that effectively keeps it "fine". However with free education, people get qualified in their chosen area (for me, sound engineering) and so are equiped with the tools to take hold of their dream. Everybody in my graduating class is going to college, and that is a result of the barriers being taken away. When there is thousands of qualified students pouring out every year, the corporations and investment come pouring in, and the extra money you earn as a result of college far outweighs the extra tax you have to pay. The countrys productivity soars and brings a very healthy economy, and best of all, an enlightened society. Thats why im in favour of free education