West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: _That_Cracka_J on June 23, 2003, 10:53:26 PM
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What is everybody's view of Affirmative Action?
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What is everybody's view of Affirmative Action?
its needed. its just a hard policy to implement, to where both sides feel it is fair. the playing field needs to be leveled for sure. but how do u go about it? how do u know, when the field is REALLY level?
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Affirmative action is a crock of bull shit created by white guilt!
if me and a white dude where going for the same job. and the white dude was more qualified......i'd honestly expect and want him to get the job.
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I judge people based on the content of their character, not on the color of their skin.
I'm pretty sure not everybody thinks like me however....
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Affirmative Action is ridicolous, hypocrite and fucked up.
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seems fucked up to me... here we have some 'equal opportunties' laws...
which also count for disabled people.
it kinda has the same effect in some ways, because employers kinda feel guilty about not employing the impaired or the 'minority' even if they are less skilled... or if they're in fear of a case of discrimination being launched if someone fails to get a job.
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Basically, Affirmative Action is a way of the law saying "Aw, you poor black guy.. we know you're not as smart or as well qualified as a white person, so here ya go, we're gonna give you a little extra push".
It's bullshit. Blacks and minorities should see it as the racism it is. It's not only racist AGAINST white people, it perpetuates the race problem, because it considers blacks and minorities as second class! It basically says, literally, that minorities can't make it on their own, so it gives them something extra to make up for it. What a crock.
They think they're solving the race problem, but what they're doing is compensating for it. They're not taking care of the root problem, just making it even more complicated.
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Talking about Affirmative Action in this forum is like talking about Quantum Physics. You guys don't have clue.
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Have you guys ever thought about how broke down schools in black areas are?
Or about how unfairly funds for public school are distributed.
I don't have a problem with Universities taking the top 10% percent.
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Affirmative action is total bullshit,and if i said the rest of what i wanted to say id get banned so ill stop now lol
http://www.petitiononline.com/action87/petition.html
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Basically, Affirmative Action is a way of the law saying "Aw, you poor black guy.. we know you're not as smart or as well qualified as a white person, so here ya go, we're gonna give you a little extra push".
That's what I'm sayin'......If I was black, it would make me feel inferior that they had to make a law for me to get a job. It should all be about qualifications....nothing else.
----What's up with affirmative action in the NBA?
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exactly, y'all. i don't want to get a job where my race pushed me over the edge.
first of all i'd feel bad for the other guy
second it would make me feel like a second class citizen
and third why would i want a law that makes racist employers higher people they hate.
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exactly, y'all. i don't want to get a job where my race pushed me over the edge.
first of all i'd feel bad for the other guy
second it would make me feel like a second class citizen
and third why would i want a law that makes racist employers higher people they hate.
Exactly. If you don't get the job it's for reasons such as this.
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excuuuuuuuse me then
*hire
you're a petty person man
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I was just making a point; people like you shouldn't worry about whether race had something to do with them not getting hired.
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you're an ass
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8)
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a lot of u guys dont seem to understand how human nature comes into play, when creating a policy like Affirmative Action. The idea behind it was, that its understood that people are prejudice. People are racist, period. And those prejudice/racist views will be carried out in every part of life, including hiring others. For so long in this country, theres been racist policies that have made it to where one race/sex has made it to the top...while others havent. Now, seeing as how PEOPLE are racist (not just white males), there needs to be a way to even the odds basically. Its not AGAINST white males. If roles were reversed, and Black males, or Hispanic males...or whoever, were in power other then White males, the same prejudices would be hurting White males. But thats not the make-up of the country.
Its not about just, giving an advantage to a minority...its about making things even, so in the future, everyone has the same opportunity. There's no way to make people NOT be racist. And its VERY hard to make sure employers, etc. dont discriminate against others based on race/sex/ or whatever. So, knowing that many, many, many times white males recieve jobs simply because they are white males, (remember the make-up of the country), u need to counter-act that somehow. What do u do, other then make a policy enforcing them to actually hire others also. Putting a little sign up saying "we are an equal opportunity employer", doesnt exactly mean shit. Ive seen many times, where an employer takes an application from a black person, and immediately sets it aside. Even saying, when asked if they would hire then, "no, theyre black". Ive yet to see that against a White male. So yall should really quit crying over it. None of becoming homeless anytime soon because of Affirmative Action. And last time i checked, the "White neighborhood" was still, the "Rich neighborhood", (im sure ill hear it from Trauma or Tom, but its true in the eyes of a minority)
And last, why does everyone seem to turn Affirmative Action into a race thing everytime its brought up. Its more then just race. Women benifit frum Affirmitive Action, more then any other group.
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And last time i checked, the "White neighborhood" was still, the "Rich neighborhood", (im sure ill hear it from Trauma or Tom, but its true in the eyes of a minority)
well in my eyes minorities dont even deserve to be in this country,much less get a advantage over whites for jobs,acceptance to colleges etc etc. they dont even deserve jobs period
*in my opinion of course
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Dago, so you're saying that since you're a minority, you CANT be successful on your own; it's beyond you. You need white people to help you out. You need us to declare you a little better than us, because *sniff *sniff you're just not gonna be able to make it on your own... BECAUSE OF YOUR SKIN COLOR.
Yup; solely because of your skin color! That's what this is based on. You're a minority, because of your skin color, so that means that you CANT DO IT. You just can't... you're just not as smart as white people when it comes to getting into a college. You need an advantage. Lord knows you'll never get in by yourself. If it comes down to you and another white person, you need an advantage because we all know the white person is more intelligent.
Am I reading you right?
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I believe that there should be equality of opportunity for all...if minorities do not recieve the same resources in terms of schools and teachers, then obviously they're gonna be behind. In many cases, if minorities had access to the same resources whites had, they would perform to a higher stand. That is why AA is still needed.
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Dago, so you're saying that since you're a minority, you CANT be successful on your own; it's beyond you. You need white people to help you out. You need us to declare you a little better than us, because *sniff *sniff you're just not gonna be able to make it on your own... BECAUSE OF YOUR SKIN COLOR.
Yup; solely because of your skin color! That's what this is based on. You're a minority, because of your skin color, so that means that you CANT DO IT. You just can't... you're just not as smart as white people when it comes to getting into a college. You need an advantage. Lord knows you'll never get in by yourself. If it comes down to you and another white person, you need an advantage because we all know the white person is more intelligent.
Am I reading you right?
no, youre not.
what im saying is, if u have two sprinters in a 40 yard dash. And one has to start 10 yards back from the other, and then expected to keep up or even pass the other runner. Should something be done to make sure the runner with the disadvantage, stands a chance?
Im not saying white people are wrong here. Im half white anyways. Like i said, ALL people are prejudice. ALL people allow prejudice to play into their decisions (like hiring, etc.). So since this country has allowed one sex of one race to solely be ontop, there needs to be a way to level things out, and give others a chance. A white man, is going to give the advantage to a white, male applicant...period. Just as a Black man, Hispanic man, or female, or whatever...would probably give the advantage to one more like them. But when one group is doing all the "hiring", because of past racist policies...how do the other groups ever come up? By running twice as fast as any white male. Thats what u call fair?
I dont think anything should be HANDED out. But, right now it gets HANDED out to white males all the time. So why is it wrong to try and level that out? Because its against you now? Because the advantage towards one side, isnt as great anymore? When America bombs the shit out of another country, completely destroying their society, businesses, etc. we give them aid to help them build themselves back up (supposedly). And all of you would say how compassionate America is. But, when this country does the same thing to its own citizens...their expected to just, "do it theirselves". Kinda funny.
Oh, and Sub-Z....unless yur Native American, u dont belong here anymore then any of us.
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well in my eyes minorities dont even deserve to be in this country,much less get a advantage over whites for jobs,acceptance to colleges etc etc. they dont even deserve jobs period
*in my opinion of course
And what helps you base this opinion?
Minorities don't deserve to be in this country? Why? Because we're immigrants to this country just like your forefathers were? Are you too ignorant to know that your "white" people weren't the original people to inhabit this land? In that case, the Native Americans should have the right to deny you and your white folks jobs. Isn't that the way it should be then?
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Dago, so you're saying that since you're a minority, you CANT be successful on your own; it's beyond you. You need white people to help you out. You need us to declare you a little better than us, because *sniff *sniff you're just not gonna be able to make it on your own... BECAUSE OF YOUR SKIN COLOR.
Yup; solely because of your skin color! That's what this is based on. You're a minority, because of your skin color, so that means that you CANT DO IT. You just can't... you're just not as smart as white people when it comes to getting into a college. You need an advantage. Lord knows you'll never get in by yourself. If it comes down to you and another white person, you need an advantage because we all know the white person is more intelligent.
Am I reading you right?
no, youre not.
what im saying is, if u have two sprinters in a 40 yard dash. And one has to start 10 yards back from the other, and then expected to keep up or even pass the other runner. Should something be done to make sure the runner with the disadvantage, stands a chance?
but that's gay dude, the best man should always win, not EVERYone has racist intentions!
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well in my eyes minorities dont even deserve to be in this country,much less get a advantage over whites for jobs,acceptance to colleges etc etc. they dont even deserve jobs period
*in my opinion of course
And what helps you base this opinion?
Minorities don't deserve to be in this country? Why? Because we're immigrants to this country just like your forefathers were? Are you too ignorant to know that your "white" people weren't the original people to inhabit this land? In that case, the Native Americans should have the right to deny you and your white folks jobs. Isn't that the way it should be then?
they dont deserve tobe here because all they are is fuckin trouble,if they could straighten their act up people wouldnt have a reason to hate them
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see u need something like afirmative action b/c it aint fair when a black guy who is more qualified but does get a job over a white guy b/c of skin color. but where does it end. it aint fair that more whites that are more qualified arent gettin jobs cuz of skin color
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Dago, so you're saying that since you're a minority, you CANT be successful on your own; it's beyond you. You need white people to help you out. You need us to declare you a little better than us, because *sniff *sniff you're just not gonna be able to make it on your own... BECAUSE OF YOUR SKIN COLOR.
Yup; solely because of your skin color! That's what this is based on. You're a minority, because of your skin color, so that means that you CANT DO IT. You just can't... you're just not as smart as white people when it comes to getting into a college. You need an advantage. Lord knows you'll never get in by yourself. If it comes down to you and another white person, you need an advantage because we all know the white person is more intelligent.
Am I reading you right?
no, youre not.
what im saying is, if u have two sprinters in a 40 yard dash. And one has to start 10 yards back from the other, and then expected to keep up or even pass the other runner. Should something be done to make sure the runner with the disadvantage, stands a chance?
So, because you're a minority, you feel you're not as good as me? You're 10 yards behind me in the dash, just because of your skin color?
The way to correct that would be to put you up NEXT to me. Not to put you 10 yards ahead of me.
Again, this all boils down to, just because you're a minority, you have a victim mentality where you think you can't succed in america, when if you look at successful black people, they give thanks to themselves, not the government. The only way you will ever get ahead is if you realize we all have problems we have to overcome in our lives; yours is you are a minority.
Mine is I'm poor. I was born in West Virginia; everyone there is poor. My mom's family were all coal miners, my dad's family were all construction workers. My dad busted his ass for years, moved us out of West Virginia, becuase the opportunities there were limited. We moved to charlotte, to the ghetto. I lived with my 4 brothers and sisters in a house with no heat for several years, until we could save enough money to buy a trailor. (I am NOT kidding). We moved into the trailor, and saved enough money to buy a house in southern charlotte, in the middle class neighborhoods...
My dad dies, and now I'm struggling saving money to pay this house off, so I can save money for my children.
Don't tell me you can't overcome racism on your own. Life is unfair, it was unfair to my dad when he was born to poor parents, it was unfair to me when I was born to poor parents. He overcame it, I'll overcome it, and with the right attitude, and some responsibility, you can overcome anything thrown at you, WITHOUT the government's help.
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..........So where's the affirmative action in basketball?
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A Good thing. 2 Right a few WRONGS from the past.
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See, with Ronnie and Tom, and me, and Craig...y'all see it's not just blacks and mexicans who are poor. Affirmative action means poor white people stay poor; you'll find that many manual labor companies have mostly coloured employees, and you'll also notice in terms of unskilled laborers, there are, percentage wise, more whites than coloured unemployed.
Affirmative action was not started as an evil plan to keep whites out of work, but it was flawed. We let guilt get in the way of logic.
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..........So where's the affirmative action in basketball?
In case u dont know the history of Basketball, along with almost ANY other sport in this country...originally, blacks or other minorities were not allowed in the league with white players. So, after that was finally abolished...youre saying what? We should go back to not allowing minorities in pro sports, again simply because they are better at basketball now?
To, Scorpion....i had an incredibly long response to what u said...all typed out on here, and the fukin computer froze. So oh well, im not gonna retype the whole thing. Basically, its like this...Affirmative Action isnt in place, because white males are BETTER then minorities or women. its in place because they have a much better CHANCE at success in this country. Not because of what they are CAPABLE of, but because of what stands in particular groups paths to success....that does NOT stand in the way of the white male (in this country). I dont believe anyone, is better then anyone because of their race or sex. So can u explain why it is that white males seem to be doing MUCH better in this country, then any other group (black, hispanic, female, etc)? Is it just because they are that much better then everyone else? Or is it because they (in the past) implemtented policies to KEEP themselves on top, and now for decades, and decades, and decades..they have maintained that, by hiring, promoting, accepting their own. Not saying its some sort of PLAN by the whiteman. But like i said, EVERYONE is prejudice. So being as how certain groups have been pushed to the back and givin an unfair disadvantage to succeed, the only fair thing u can think to do is say..."make it on yur own". Honestly, thats bullshit. The problem is, alot of people take this shit as something personal about them. Alot of white men seem to think this is an attack on them. Its not. No one is saying that YOU did anything wrong. But it seems as though there is a LOT of whining coming from people, who are now realizing they have to compete on the SAME playing field, rather then with an advantage. Like i said, ALL people are prejudice in their own right...including, white males. So unless youve managed to find a way to make sure no one is prejudice, this is what needs to be done.
And Owen, i feel what youre saying....somewhat. But i dont agree that Affirmative Action is based on guilt. I think its based on understanding. Its not about needing a handout, its about needing a fair shot.
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See, with Ronnie and Tom, and me, and Craig...y'all see it's not just blacks and mexicans who are poor. Affirmative action means poor white people stay poor; you'll find that many manual labor companies have mostly coloured employees, and you'll also notice in terms of unskilled laborers, there are, percentage wise, more whites than coloured unemployed.
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well in my eyes minorities dont even deserve to be in this country,much less get a advantage over whites for jobs,acceptance to colleges etc etc. they dont even deserve jobs period
*in my opinion of course
And what helps you base this opinion?
Minorities don't deserve to be in this country? Why? Because we're immigrants to this country just like your forefathers were? Are you too ignorant to know that your "white" people weren't the original people to inhabit this land? In that case, the Native Americans should have the right to deny you and your white folks jobs. Isn't that the way it should be then?
they dont deserve tobe here because all they are is fuckin trouble,if they could straighten their act up people wouldnt have a reason to hate them
See then you have to apply it to everything. You can't just hand-select specific cases you ignorant fool. For example, the Europeans (white people like you) brought chaos and disease to the New World. White people like Timothy McVeigh need to straighten their act up as well. All the hicks, crackers, and trailer trash pieces of shit that resemble you need to straighten their act up.
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Plus, in case you didn't know, your ancestors were immigrants. In this case your statement applies: immigrants such as your ancestors should've been kicked out of the country because all they left is dirty, ugly, dumb offspring.
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Why don't we take a look at what's going on in the Netherlands right now?
http://www.expatica.com/index.asp?HRSite=&pad=2,366,&item_id=32377 (http://www.expatica.com/index.asp?HRSite=&pad=2,366,&item_id=32377)
Deportation centers? I wonder how come this didn't get any attention from the people on this board?
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See, with Ronnie and Tom, and me, and Craig...y'all see it's not just blacks and mexicans who are poor. Affirmative action means poor white people stay poor; you'll find that many manual labor companies have mostly coloured employees, and you'll also notice in terms of unskilled laborers, there are, percentage wise, more whites than coloured unemployed.
Affirmative action was not started as an evil plan to keep whites out of work, but it was flawed. We let guilt get in the way of logic.
^^i understand you man. But this is where people get it twisted sometimes. Affirmative Action isnt just about race. So dont say "white people", say "white males". Women are included in the groups that benefit from Affirmative Action. As for poor white males, having trouble finding a job...im sorry, but i dont really feel sorry for yall. I mean, i feel sorry for anyone who cant find a job. But, i...in NO way believe you would have a harder time because of your race...then any other person. Affirmative Action, has helped things for minorities and women...BUT it isnt active EVERYwhere. And although you can try n make sure everyone has a chance to "get the job", there are still PLENTY...i mean...PLENTY of people out there that would hire you, based on nothing else other then your race and sex. Prejudice has alwayz been evident in people, but i never noticed it so much in my life, until i started working. You really catch how fucked up some peoples views are when hiring, and ive YET to see any of those views going AGAINST white males.
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there are, percentage wise, more white unskilled labourers than coloured unemployed.
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there are, percentage wise, more white unskilled labourers than coloured unemployed.
lol@ that quote being rearranged a lil bit...
and as far as that goes, if "coloured" means "black", there are far more white people in this country. Not to mentioned, those are numbers that are not even going to be close to accurate. Last, im not exactly sure what part of the country yur from man....i thought it was Georgia (i might be wrong)....but take a walk around your city, and find the worst neighborhoods, with the worst education, with the worst chance of succeeding in, and let me know what color the people are. Maybe you happen to live in the ONE city in the country where everyone there is a white male, but i doubt it.
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As I'm sure you realize, the quote meant exactly the same thing.
And I said percentage wise. I don't mean in terms of numbers. I don't mean there's 10 unskilled white men unemployed for every 1 unskilled black.
I meant that, for sake of argument, 7 percent of unskilled white males are unemployed, whilst 4 percent of coloured (by that I meant black, mexican, whatever) males are unemployed. It's that kind of difference.
This isn't as true in the big cities as in the rural areas, but nonetheless, it's a national average.
Also, for semi-skilled and skilled labourers, coloured people (and women) are more unemployed than white males. I was using an example (the unskilled area) where affirmative action had fucked up badly.
And yeah, I'm from Georgia.
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In the end, it comes down to minorities are doing themselves a disservice with Affirmative Action. Who do you think is passing these laws? White people. Like I said, this is more white people telling you you're not good enough.
I'm not worried about any effect affirmative action is going to have on my ability to be successful, becuase frankly, I'm that damn good. If everybody would live up to their potential, you wouldn't need the government giving you handouts like this.
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In the end, it comes down to minorities are doing themselves a disservice with Affirmative Action. Who do you think is passing these laws? White people. Like I said, this is more white people telling you you're not good enough.
I'm not worried about any effect affirmative action is going to have on my ability to be successful, becuase frankly, I'm that damn good. If everybody would live up to their potential, you wouldn't need the government giving you handouts like this.
its true what you say, people shouldnt approach life as if they are going to get help. Help, is just that...help. You should do it on your own, and if help is there...then good. But, thats just the individual mindset one should have for their OWN success. That doesnt mean that the help should not be there. Living up to your potential is great, all im saying is...some people need far less "potential" to make it, then others...which isnt fair.