West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Eidolon_Ravi on September 03, 2003, 03:39:19 AM
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THIS IS MY 100th POST!!!! ;D
So friends.. I need all ur votes on this damn Important issue which has been in a deadlock for the past 50 years!!!
It involves the world's two newly crowned nuclear powers...
It involves ppl. of two different RELIGIONS...
The deep bleeding wound created by the partition has not healed as yet...
The stakes are pretty high.. and so are the tempers... >:(
What do u think is the
Cause... and
Future of this Kashmir Problem..
an issue which has claimed more lives than all the gulf wars put together and affected the lives of billiions...
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Personally I don't understand all the issues involved.
But.. where two different religions are concerned its it makes for an uneasy recipe in my eyes.
Causes? religion, territorial instincts,
Based on my limited knowledge the future can have two paths.
war - continuous, destructive, probably until there is a victor. risk of nukes? ouch.
peace - hmm, maybe if its made into its own nation-state
(votes should be democratic republic)
reminds me of a the similar situation with the temple mount.. assuming that is there are religious sites and artifiacts related to both parties in the disputed region.
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Kashmir, Pakistan, India, and even Bangledash should ALL be UNITED like they were before the colonial period when the West carved up Muslim lands and planted the seeds for the prevailing tyranny and destruction that now plaques the once unified region.
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Kashmir, Pakistan, India, and even Bangledash should ALL be UNITED like they were before the colonial period when the West carved up Muslim lands and planted the seeds for the prevailing tyranny and destruction that now plaques the once unified region.
This could remain only *the good samartian's Fantasy*...
The seeds of religion once sown reap a very rich harvest and this harvest cannot be destroyed cuz it feeds so many fanatics.. who thrive on them and will never let them rot...
The colonialists had a hand in the partition but moreso had the political leaders who were driven by the greed of leading a new sovereign...
The Mahatma (gandhi) was indeed devastated by the partition...
For the Uninformed:
Bfore independence Kashmir was a beautiful muslim dominated country ruled justly by a Hindu king. The king refused to side with either India or pak after the partition... but when the Pak attacked the land the king took refuge in India nad appealed for indian millitary intervention... the Indian army retaliated and pushed back the invading forces and recovered almost 2/3 of the land. but hten the then PM of India J. Nehru made haste and went to the UN who immediately ordered a cease fire.. so from then onwards there have been regular wars betn the countries...
The countries then signed the Lahore treaty by which the LOC (line of control) was made official and troops were deployed along it.. there was a lull after the 1917 war till the end of 1980's after which the Jehad againg gained momentum...
This jehad against the Indian occupied Kashmir is gaining more ground becuz of the volatile leadership in Pak. which has witnessed a number of coups and assasiantions @ the highest level... the jehad is still continuiing with attacks against the kashmiri Pundits ( Hindus) and religious places in Himalayas like that of Amarnath...
The talks have resumed with the US intervention in the issue and the two nations are now aiming to conduct Bilateral talks to resolve it.. But then again disrupted by the regular incidents of terrorism in Kashmir...
To me only a full scaled Nuclear war seems to be the most feasible option... ;).. keep polling..
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There is only one course of action, and everybody in the region understands this.
Put in place the long standing UN Resolution callin for a plesbicite in Kashmir. The people of Kashmir should have the right to self determination. India claims it is a democracy, yet it is suppressing the peoples will in Kashmir.
India refuses to allow a vote, claiming it is an internal matter. The Pakistanis- through years of funding and arming of infiltrating militias- have lost the love of the majority of Kashmiris. The best option is an election.
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What I suggested is not an impossibility. Pakistan, India, and Bangledash are bound by common race and language (mostly). It would not be impossible for all of them to unite like they were less than a century ago.
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jus puttin my thots.........i think it shu join pakistan.....KAZ.....there has been fights between HIDNU and muslims...nd it wund never end....period......so....HINDUs in tht region hate MUSLIMS vice verse.....if KASHMIR is independent, one of the countries is gona attack on it for sure.....so the best thing is to let it go to pakistan kaz KASHMIR is a Muslim state, and when the Ind-Pak formed it was said tht the place wit the most mulsims shud goto pakistan, but there was some BS on it, anyways, Kashmir shud goto pakistan, independently, kashmir is not able to support itself, and for sure a country is gona attack on it, so its better tht the Muslim state of kashmir goes to the Islamic republic of Pakistan.
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I believe it should become its own independent state, with its own central government. If not that, then cut it right down the middle ;D
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jus puttin my thots.........i think it shu join pakistan.....KAZ.....there has been fights between HIDNU and muslims...nd it wund never end....period......so....HINDUs in tht region hate MUSLIMS vice verse.....if KASHMIR is independent, one of the countries is gona attack on it for sure.....so the best thing is to let it go to pakistan kaz KASHMIR is a Muslim state, and when the Ind-Pak formed it was said tht the place wit the most mulsims shud goto pakistan, but there was some BS on it, anyways, Kashmir shud goto pakistan, independently, kashmir is not able to support itself, and for sure a country is gona attack on it, so its better tht the Muslim state of kashmir goes to the Islamic republic of Pakistan.
THat's true.. But there's lot of HINDU shrines: Amarnath.. Vaishnov Devi .. .. the holiest ones.. in Kashmir Valley....
pakistan is a religious state.. a muslim one.. and cannot guarantee the upkeep and the inflow of hindu saints who come in hordes into these shrines...
That's not the only issue..politically India is a Secular state and is very tolerant towards all relgions and for that matter there are more number of Muslims living in India than in Pakistan... and in most places they live a peaceful co-existence..
If Kashmir goes into the hands of a A fundamentalist state (read Pak) it can go into ruin..
When the state itself is in a state of political disorder.. and suffereing from a poor economy - (most of the money goes in increasing the millitary and funding terrorista organizations), it won't be able to secure the stability of a newly induced state and provide security to the multi ethinic citizens of that state....
My best bet is *INDIA*
Please let the votes keeep coming in...
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u ve nice points, but let me re-state somethings, every year millions of SIKHS from INDIA come to PAKISTAN to pray in their biggest or 2nd biggest GURDWARA, and do any of the sikhs get treated like shit ??? no, nothing near, those INDIAN SIKHS R TREATED VERY NICELY, THEIR FOOD, HOTELING, TRANSPORTATION EVERYTHING IS FREE AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN PAKISTAN, and if ur saying tht Pakistan's economy is low, than if u compare it with India, we are able to support our POPULATION better than INDIA, ur population is already out of handas and cannot be controlled, so how can u control a whole another state ??? and money wise India is only around 1.3% better than Pakistan, doesnt makes a big difference, plus ur talking about Muslims in India, you see Muslims in India as general, the rich ones, those movie starts and etc. look at the low life Muslims in India, they get treated like shit, around 300 Muslim families have migrated to Pakistan in the last 3 years, and now india is not allowing any more ppl. to migrate to pakistan.......
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I don't really care what happens in Kashmir. I'm american, and we're not allowed to attempt to help any situation without being attacked, so I'd rather let India & pakistan kill every civilian in the region before I'd help them. Fuck 'em. I hope they figure something out on their own.
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war - continuous, destructive, probably until there is a victor. risk of nukes? ouch.
peace - hmm, maybe if its made into its own nation-state
Unfortunately, there is never peace unless a war is won. Peace follows victory.
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every year millions of SIKHS from INDIA come to PAKISTAN to pray in their biggest or 2nd biggest GURDWARA, and do any of the sikhs get treated like shit no, nothing near, those INDIAN SIKHS R TREATED VERY NICELY, THEIR FOOD, HOTELING, TRANSPORTATION EVERYTHING IS FREE AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN PAKISTAN
Every year millions of hindu muslims and muslims from abroad come to visit holy ,uslim shrines in India like Jama Masjid, Bibi- Ka- Makbara and the like.. Millions are allowed by the indian givernment to undertake the Haj pilgrimage to the gulf.. And then again u must remember that Pak Muslims always have a soft corner for the Sikhs espcially after Indira Gandhi's assasination.... and the resulting sikh riots...
than INDIA, ur population is already out of handas and cannot be controlled, so how can u control a whole another state and money wise India is only around 1.3% better than Pakistan, doesnt makes a big difference, plus ur talking about Muslims in India, you see Muslims in India as general, the rich ones, those movie starts and etc. look at the low life Muslims in India, they get treated like shit, around 300 Muslim families have migrated to Pakistan in the last 3 years, and now india is not allowing any more ppl. to migrate to pakistan.......
India is pretty much controlling its population.. and the reason the population of pakistan is LOW is becuz - its have a very high Mortality rate... and the govt. doesn't have money even to provide health care to its ppl. and u expect India to send its citizens to such a underpoverished nation whose main aim is to topple existing govt.s, harbor terrorists and create a fundamentalist muslim state????
also for ur information at the start of 2000, Pakistan suffered three disadvantages vis-à-vis India. The growth rate of the Indian economy in the 1990s was 6.1 per cent against 4 per cent for Pakistan, according to the World Development Report. Pakistan's low growth rate can be attributed to poor record of governance in the Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif regimes. In 2000, Pakistan was suffering from the economic `mis'governance of the past decade.
Pakistan, much smaller than India, spends a higher share of its national income on Defence. India's GDP was $442 billion in 1999 against $64 billion for Pakistan. India spent 2.8 per cent of its GDP on defence against Pakistan's 5.7 per cent. In 2000, Pakistan was affected by a drought while India had a normal monsoon. The growth rate of agriculture in Pakistan was (-) 2.5 per cent in 2001, down from a positive growth of 6.5 per cent in 2000. Indian agriculture's growth rate increased to 5.7 per cent in 2001 from (-) 0.2 per cent in 2000 due to normal rains.
Thus, Pakistan suffered from three disadvantages: It had gone through a decade of democratic bad governance, a drought, and spent a greater portion of its income on Defence. One would have expected Pakistan's economic situation to deteriorate in 2001 in comparison to India. But the Asian Development Outlook, published by the Asian Development Bank, gives us the exact opposite picture.
Am I justified?? 8)
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I don't really care what happens in Kashmir. I'm american, and we're not allowed to attempt to help any situation without being attacked, so I'd rather let India & pakistan kill every civilian in the region before I'd help them. Fuck 'em. I hope they figure something out on their own.
as for u Trauma.. u may as well stick to posting in ur sick Racist threads..
For all u pass(read *piss*) in here will surely turn this into one of ur *garbage* threads...
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every year millions of SIKHS from INDIA come to PAKISTAN to pray in their biggest or 2nd biggest GURDWARA, and do any of the sikhs get treated like shit no, nothing near, those INDIAN SIKHS R TREATED VERY NICELY, THEIR FOOD, HOTELING, TRANSPORTATION EVERYTHING IS FREE AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN PAKISTAN
Millions are allowed by the indian givernment to undertake the Haj pilgrimage to the gulf..
is it a big deal to allow them to go for Hajj ??? more thn million muslims go for Haj to the gulf from other non-muslim countries
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India is pretty much controlling its population.. and the reason the population of pakistan is LOW is becuz - its have a very high Mortality rate... and the govt. doesn't have money even to provide health care to its ppl. and u expect India to send its citizens to such a underpoverished nation whose main aim is to topple existing govt.s, harbor terrorists and create a fundamentalist muslim state????
how r u controlling ur population ??? where people dont even kno the meaning of a condom ???? and as for health care, there are alot of Hospitals tht offer free treatment, as the biggest example is the SHAUKAT-KAHANAM CANCER MEMORIAL HOSPITAL, biggest hospital in the south-east asia and 3rd biggest in the whole asia, it provides free treatment to the poor not only for cancer, but for all other deseases. Queen Elizabeth gave this hospital the award for the best free treatment and largest hospital in south-east asia. Do you have any proof of pakistan harboring terrorists ????? it shud be a good thing to send the Muslims to Pakistan from india as u think tht Muslims r terrorists, u wanna get rid of terrorists rite ?????
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also for ur information at the start of 2000, Pakistan suffered three disadvantages vis-à-vis India. The growth rate of the Indian economy in the 1990s was 6.1 per cent against 4 per cent for Pakistan, according to the World Development Report. Pakistan's low growth rate can be attributed to poor record of governance in the Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif regimes. In 2000, Pakistan was suffering from the economic `mis'governance of the past decade.
Pakistan, much smaller than India, spends a higher share of its national income on Defence. India's GDP was $442 billion in 1999 against $64 billion for Pakistan. India spent 2.8 per cent of its GDP on defence against Pakistan's 5.7 per cent. In 2000, Pakistan was affected by a drought while India had a normal monsoon. The growth rate of agriculture in Pakistan was (-) 2.5 per cent in 2001, down from a positive growth of 6.5 per cent in 2000. Indian agriculture's growth rate increased to 5.7 per cent in 2001 from (-) 0.2 per cent in 2000 due to normal rains.
Thus, Pakistan suffered from three disadvantages: It had gone through a decade of democratic bad governance, a drought, and spent a greater portion of its income on Defence. One would have expected Pakistan's economic situation to deteriorate in 2001 in comparison to India. But the Asian Development Outlook, published by the Asian Development Bank, gives us the exact opposite picture.
Am I justified?? 8)
No, Pakistan's growth rate was not suffering from any of tht bullshit.
Even though pakistan is much smaller than India it has still prooved tht the defence system is better than india with a small amount of Army and half the military equipment of India. How can you we spend more on Military than you ?? when Pakistan has 25 Atomic warheads and india got more than 50 ? When our number of fighter jet planes is much lesser than ur country u still say we spend more on our military ? when we havent spent any money on making OUR OWN FIGHTER JET PLANES, India spent a huge amount of money to make a fighter Jet plane which is not tht good and is still in improving stages, all tht money could've been spent on condoms to distribue within the poor people.
Once again NO, our great portion of income does not goes on Military, and once again ill tell u NO, our economy has upgraded in 2001, in 1999 1 Indian ruppe was 1.23 pakistan rupees, now 1 Indian rupee is equal to 1.02 Pakistani Rupee.
Are you justified ? NO
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Do you have any proof of pakistan harboring terrorists ?? it shud be a good thing to send the Muslims to Pakistan from india as u think tht Muslims r terrorists, u wanna get rid of terrorists rite ??
This is really funny strite BS... ;D Okay so ur now talking like those dumbass politicians in Pak.... The US whom the Pak so feverently hoped will mediate has itseld acknowledged that the Pak destroy the camps it runs to train terrorists....
and Mr Mussharraf imself has said that unless india hands over kashmir over to pak there's little he can do about the terrorist organisations..
Go to any damn news site aand check out the poll... more than 50% pakistanis AND Indians support resolving the Kashmir issue as prima facie to stabilise the relationships... I don't have anything against the pakistanis.. I hate terrorism in a nation which houses such rich cultural heritage and whose ppl. are so tolerant of all religions...
is it a big deal to allow them to go for Hajj more thn million muslims go for Haj to the gulf from other non-muslim countries
the point to be made was that india is not averse to restrict its citizens on the grounds of religion.. it is one of the nations in the world whch offers its citizens *freedom of religion* and *freedom of movement* regardlesss of their religion...
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Do you have any proof of pakistan harboring terrorists ?? it shud be a good thing to send the Muslims to Pakistan from india as u think tht Muslims r terrorists, u wanna get rid of terrorists rite ??
This is really funny strite BS... ;D Okay so ur now talking like those dumbass politicians in Pak.... The US whom the Pak so feverently hoped will mediate has itseld acknowledged that the Pak destroy the camps it runs to train terrorists....
and Mr Mussharraf imself has said that unless india hands over kashmir over to pak there's little he can do about the terrorist organisations..
Go to any damn news site aand check out the poll... more than 50% pakistanis AND Indians support resolving the Kashmir issue as prima facie to stabilise the relationships... I don't have anything against the pakistanis.. I hate terrorism in a nation which houses such rich cultural heritage and whose ppl. are so tolerant of all religions...
is it a big deal to allow them to go for Hajj more thn million muslims go for Haj to the gulf from other non-muslim countries
the point to be made was that india is not averse to restrict its citizens on the grounds of religion.. it is one of the nations in the world whch offers its citizens *freedom of religion* and *freedom of movement* regardlesss of their religion...
oh really ? than why didnt pakistan get attacked for trainining terrorists??? if u actually look @ ur statement again, pakistani politicans r way smarter than Indian politicans, a small amount amount of ppl. made a big nation like INDIA to split into 2, the 2nd half was Pakistan. Wheres the proof tht pakistan said they destroyed terrorist camps ?? no they didnt, U.S actually asked for help from Pakistan to help them in Afghanistan because the the province of NWFP has the same geo. as Afghanistan, and the men in PAKI ARMY of NWFP were born in tht area, so the army in tht province has all kind of strategies and tactics wht to do in a war with support of deep mountains and etc. Pakistan refused to help until U.S gave them the promised f-16's, the deal is still going, but is not yet confirmed.
did i tell you how pathetic you are ?
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^^^ Lmao @ that...
man how can u be so blind towards history?!!!!!
PAKISTAN got attacked twice and got defeated twice... wars of 1971 being the major ofthe two... India was instrumantal in giving Bangladesh its freedom from the atrocities of pakistani leaders..... hahaha ur really funny... ;D
And seems ur such a kid that u don't even seem to know that *US friendship with Pakistan was just a Alliance of convenience* us needed Pak territory to attack Afgan.. and pak got handsomely paid for it.... Ans pak is such a sissy that it requires US mediation to face India!!!
Seems u never read the papers and see the current news and u go arnd making such dumb atatements.. where I have already made so many statements regarding the feasibility of Kashmir joining India...
And I again reiterate that Pak is incapable of Handling Kashmir becuz:
* I doesn't have a stable Government in Itself
* It is not a religiously tolerant state
* It is economically more weaker than India *look @ states like Baluchistan*.. shit I feel sorry for the ppl livin there...
* It has made use of wrong means to get Kashmir like harboring terrorists and thwarting India's initiatives to normalize relations...
I know I have justified.... * No need for further justification*
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LMAO !!!! wht a pathetic ass, dood, ur trying to DIVERT everyones attention from the topic to some BS, ur shit made no sense, i didnt even read it. dont come up nd talk shit bout someones country, INDIA won 2 wars ?????? my ass.....LMAO....no one wants a relation wit India in tht region of Asia, even Sri lanka does'nt wants to ve a relation wit u guys man....i mean c'mon.....lol...ur all fake, ur trying to BIAS now, and trying to proove tht India is the best, which is not, and USA is still seeking Pakistan's help, and it will not stop seekinh Pakistan's help until they do some Gas-line shit in afghanistan or GWADAR(PAKISTAN). Until the next 5 years USA will be needing Pakistan's help, 5 years is alot of time, and as far as USA supported pakistan, our economy is just as good as India, and within the enxt 5 years, Pakistan's economy will overdone India's economy for sure.
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LMAO !!!! wht a pathetic ass, dood, ur trying to DIVERT everyones attention from the topic to some BS, ur shit made no sense, i didnt even read it. dont come up nd talk shit bout someones country, INDIA won 2 wars ?????? my ass.....LMAO....no one wants a relation wit India in tht region of Asia, even Sri lanka does'nt wants to ve a relation wit u guys man....i mean c'mon.....lol...ur all fake, ur trying to BIAS now, and trying to proove tht India is the best, which is not, and USA is still seeking Pakistan's help, and it will not stop seekinh Pakistan's help until they do some Gas-line shit in afghanistan or GWADAR(PAKISTAN). Until the next 5 years USA will be needing Pakistan's help, 5 years is alot of time, and as far as USA supported pakistan, our economy is just as good as India, and within the enxt 5 years, Pakistan's economy will overdone India's economy for sure.
U poor thing : Don't worry here is sumthing to help u out with *History*....
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/IndiaPak_The1971War.asp
http://terrorism.reallybites.com/
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/archives/archives2000/kashmir20001005b.html
http://www.kashmir-information.com/Miscellaneous/Pak_terrorism.html
Happy Browsing...
Anyway the poll speaks out for itself... and I never deviated from the issue.. I gave all the reasons why Kashmir Should join with India under the present circumstances..
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lol...........i never thot u were this dumb....lol.......nd yea....the poll speaks tht u asked ppl. to vote ;)
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I think the only way it can work out is if its Independent, under UN custody, so that when Pakistans gay ass tries to take over, they get their asses put in check by the US. Fuckin poor ass terrorist cocksuckin pieces of shit.
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I think the only way it can work out is if its Independent, under UN custody, so that when Pakistans gay ass tries to take over, they get their asses put in check by the US. Fuckin poor ass terrorist cocksuckin pieces of shit.
The same could apply to India
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ignore BOMBCCHRON
BOMBCHRON = FAGQUAKE = FAG WHO TKES BATH WIT A COW's PISS
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I think the only way it can work out is if its Independent, under UN custody, so that when Pakistans gay ass tries to take over, they get their asses put in check by the US. Fuckin poor ass terrorist cocksuckin pieces of shit.
The same could apply to India
Tell me one good reason when the International Community has admitted that India aides and abets terrorism??
* INDIA has banned LTTE as a Terrorist organization
* India Was the one which brought the UN into reckoning in this issue by includion it in the deliberations in 1949
* India hasn't sent any troops to IRAQ because of its long standing principles that it would never interfere in any countries' internal policies without a mandate by a World Body like the UN
* India has diplomatically made it clear to SHARON in his recent visit to the country that it is monitoring closely the developments in GAza and it feels giving Palestenians their well deserved freedom is the only way out of this situation....
and their are some INTELLECTUAL FARTERS who roam around thinking exactly the opposite.. My message to them:
I PITY YOU 8)
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omg......how fuked up can u get........ARE U QUAKE's BROTHER ?
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omg......how fuked up can u get........ARE U QUAKE's BROTHER ?
tch..tch..that's what happens when ppl. have nothin intelligent to offer..
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omg......how fuked up can u get........ARE U QUAKE's BROTHER ?
tch..tch..that's what happens when ppl. have nothin intelligent to offer..?
u get EIDOLON_SUN ;D