West Coast Connection Forum

Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: doggmastah on April 11, 2002, 06:34:30 AM

Title: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 11, 2002, 06:34:30 AM
Do ya believe there is a god or gods?

well i dont ... i did a long time ago but life made me a non believer.

If u believe it's good ... i guess god exists to the ones that believe.

I'm my thirty years of life none was able to give me proof to tha existence of a god... i repeat only tha ones that believe can be certain of that.
I know the Bible, and i keep searchin' in several holy texts from many religions an i cant find any valuable proof...

Dont say i'm ignorant (i know sum will say that) just because i dont believe... I already said it before... i'm a teacher and i have a phd ...an i'm not sayin' i'm superior to any of yall ...here we are all equal an i'm not sayin' that truth is on my side.
I'm not tryin' to make anyone a non believer , just sayin' what i feel about that!

Peace!

PS: now it's up to yall to express yur opinionz!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: HBKid_Jr on April 11, 2002, 06:59:42 AM
i honestly dont know if i do,  one minute i do an than tha next minute u see some shit in tha paper or news on how a 5-6 year old kid is dying a slow painful death b/c of cancer,  now if god was this great an loving individual,  why does a lil kid have to die like that,  what did that little kid do to deserve a death like that
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 11, 2002, 08:13:12 AM
^^^ I've explained that to yall 100 times, but you don't read what I say.

It only appears to be bad, you don't see what's goin on before and after, you just see the bad part (the kid dying).
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ExZit on April 11, 2002, 08:36:58 AM
i dont belive in God, but i wish i would.. :'(
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Big BpG on April 11, 2002, 09:10:24 AM
Nope, was raised a christian, but later saw all the bullshit within the church... so I went on my way, read books on evolution, books on stephen hawkings and now I'm quite sure, god is only for those who believe... when all  else fails, god will be there, i dont need god... not now at least,  and I dont have any desire to go back.

-Big BpG
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: HBKid_Jr on April 11, 2002, 09:21:11 AM
Quote
^^^ I've explained that to yall 100 times, but you don't read what I say.

It only appears to be bad, you don't see what's goin on before and after, you just see the bad part (the kid dying).

what good comes from this,  it shows other people how lucky they are.  If takes tha death of a lil kid to show that,  than i dont want 2 be a part of any religion
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: CodeCaine on April 11, 2002, 09:25:24 AM
Quote


It only appears to be bad, you don't see what's goin on before and after, you just see the bad part (the kid dying).


before he was never born and after he'll be dead...we only got one life
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: tnp on April 11, 2002, 04:37:03 PM
What I wanna know is, why do people feel the need to believe in god? Is it societal, personal, or what? I have never believed in a god, nor do I have any desire to, but I wanna know why people do.

peace,
tnp
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: M Dogg™ on April 11, 2002, 04:42:12 PM
One thing that fustrates me is people using what people do as an excuse to stop believing in God. The world is fucked up, always will be, will never stop until Jesus comes back to Earth (I'm a Catholic and I'll take that to my grave). Everything in the worlddone in the Lord's name, most off it is used to opress others. All the Holy Wars, Europe colonies around the world taking land from "savages" so that they can save them, slavery, suicide bombings, opression kings, terriorism both on gays and family plaining clinics and other nations, blockades on countries so that the people can starve and much much more. All of this in the name of religion. So if God truly exist, then why does he allow this to happen.

The answer is simple, God created us in is image, he loves us with a love so great that we can not understand it. And with this, he give us free will. The suffering on Earth is not for heaven. I know in all my heart that suffering here is not everything, because God is allowing me to make my own choices so that I can go to heaven. God has given me the greatest gift of them all FREE WILL.

God gave us free will so that we can make are own choices. From the beginning, God gave Adam and Eve a great place to live, and told them not to eat an apple, well everyone knows that story, and from there we have been a creature of sin. In the old testament, the Jews wanted a form of government, and this became trouble as they looked at there relationship to God as a model. What they found was God ruled over them, so using that, one would rule over them, as God would. God disaproved, but as we all know, this started a government system that stood strong for over 3,000 years, if not more. God stepped aside and allowed the Jews to crown a king. The old testament is strongly against slavery, but when slavery was being inforced, black were read the Bible to make it seem as if slavery was a command of God. But God gave us free will to make Earth how we want it. It's almost like his testing us, and letting us hurt each other. But the goal isn't to make your life on Earth better, but to look forward to Heaven.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Tha_Chozen_1 on April 11, 2002, 04:54:31 PM
Damn BIG BpG, your'e now at the top of my prayer list. ;D
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Big BpG on April 11, 2002, 06:09:47 PM
Quote
What I wanna know is, why do people feel the need to believe in god? Is it societal, personal, or what? I have never believed in a god, nor do I have any desire to, but I wanna know why people do.

peace,
tnp


I believe a strong part comes from our youth, the way we were brought up. My cousins, were raised heavily to believe god and so forth... now for anything I can't explain, they proclaim is god-sent... which for me, makes me crumble because then I lose my mind... I love to think and try to figure out what can't be explain, I hate to use god as my answer because there is absolutely no proof of him. I grew up christian, believed for a while, but too much happened, my mom told me stories about what to watch out for in the church and I basically grew apart from it... so now I'm here, I'm totally satisfied with what I have... and to me a lot of the people who have decided to choose religion, have had  to struggle in life... infinite for example, he brings up how he hit rock bottom, now he is islamic.... my uncle is another example... after his marriage, christianity is his release... I don't need a release... and I've had many people say "Brandon, I will pray for you"  ... I seriously hate those people, my uncle is one of them, I love him and all, but don't force something on me like that, it's just not right, its cowardly and it is not gods way, god loves all, he may not like the sins, but he loves all, so he loves me, for my choice of living, jesus fought for his freedom, I fight for mine, a free mind, a free will, I just don't believe he is our god.... there are supernatural occurunces, I've seen ghosts and such, god is not my explanation for these, thats what I figure out on my own.

-Big BpG
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 11, 2002, 07:05:44 PM
^^^ Man, in all fairness, and with all due respect, you're straight up confused.

1 day, you say there is no god.  Then on this thread you tell us about how god feels.  And about Jesus.  

I wasn't raised in the church, if you ever were PART of a good religion (apparently you either had a horrible church, horrible associates, or didn't understand the concept when you were younger) you would realize it's purpose.   The simple fact of the matter is that there are some things that only religion can explain.  And that's why people turn to religion.  

Why are you here?  Just to fart around, screw who you like, then die after about 70 years?  Hardly.  Religion answers this question.

Where did you come from?  The soul, the mind, the feelings you feel INSIDE, did those grow?  Your mind, your essence, how is that made?  It isn't.  It has been in you, the same, never getting old, never getting tired, never showing itself, since before you were born, and if you think your moms blood cells made that, you're out of your mind.  The soul is eternal, and not of this earth, any idiot can figure that one out.  Even little kids understand that concept.  The problem is when people get intelligent, they get proud, and don't want to admit that there is a higher power, more important, intelligent, and better than them.  I used to be that way, then I woke the hell up.

Religion answers all that, that's why people turn to it.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 12, 2002, 07:23:41 AM
^^still none gave me yet proof of the existence of any god whatsoeva.

I believe that the godz are inevntions from humans cuz we have to believe in some superior entity that rulez our lives... See romans had a god fo' everytang and why their godz arent reel and others are? it has been shown that most of the biblical facts arent as true as they pretend to be...this wuz proved by science...and sum religious people say that hell and the devil do not exist--they're inventions to make people live life without commitin' sins (or try to)...why this fear to go to hell when hell is what happens in sum places on earth?

well all due respect to the religions and to all those who believe!

Keep postin' yall!


Peace!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Big BpG on April 12, 2002, 08:40:50 AM
Quote
^^^ Man, in all fairness, and with all due respect, you're straight up confused.

1 day, you say there is no god.  Then on this thread you tell us about how god feels.  And about Jesus.  

I wasn't raised in the church, if you ever were PART of a good religion (apparently you either had a horrible church, horrible associates, or didn't understand the concept when you were younger) you would realize it's purpose.   The simple fact of the matter is that there are some things that only religion can explain.  And that's why people turn to religion.  

Why are you here?  Just to fart around, screw who you like, then die after about 70 years?  Hardly.  Religion answers this question.

Where did you come from?  The soul, the mind, the feelings you feel INSIDE, did those grow?  Your mind, your essence, how is that made?  It isn't.  It has been in you, the same, never getting old, never getting tired, never showing itself, since before you were born, and if you think your moms blood cells made that, you're out of your mind.  The soul is eternal, and not of this earth, any idiot can figure that one out.  Even little kids understand that concept.  The problem is when people get intelligent, they get proud, and don't want to admit that there is a higher power, more important, intelligent, and better than them.  I used to be that way, then I woke the hell up.

Religion answers all that, that's why people turn to it.



All I was saying is that if you follow christiniaty and then are going to hate one me for not, then your not following it right.
He Loves all and it is said in the bible... I'm just saying that for those who  want to pray for me and believe that God is our creator, no thanks man, I'm not confused, my mind is so free right now and I have such a good life because of it. Now for what you said... "religion anwers all that" ... well opinions dogg, but to me, RELIGION ANSWER IT FOR YOU... it gives you no oppurtunity to think otherwise, but their way, then if I go around saying we came from monkeys, people fly planes into our buildings... I choose to not follow it... to me, there is no so called GOD, its a hard word to define because we believe god to be a physicality or a higher power watching us, but to me, god, or in my view.... energy is just there, like god, its just there, no one created god, god is and will be, to me, energy is and will be... your god is my energy, i dont believe my god  dropped a baby into the virgin mary, i dont believe energy used jesus as a prophet, energy exists all around us, thats why  spectacular events happen all the time naturally... earthquakes, volcanic erruptions, tornadoes, floods, hurricanes,  avalanches... all part of the cycle to create and re-create.... when i die, i become part of that cycle again, i become energy to be used in other ways...

-Big BpG
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 12, 2002, 10:05:30 AM
Go study philosophy, then, God's existance was proven at least 5 times by Thomas Aquinas.  Check out 'The Summa" which puts all his research, thought, and discussions about the subject of god's existence.  
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: infinite59 on April 12, 2002, 10:54:56 AM
Quote



All I was saying is that if you follow christiniaty and then are going to hate one me for not, then your not following it right.
He Loves all and it is said in the bible...

-Big BpG


That's the biggest misconception in the world.  Anybody that's read the old testament in the Bible knows that God showed as much vengence as he did love.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Naz-T on April 12, 2002, 12:31:21 PM
Quote
^^^ I've explained that to yall 100 times, but you don't read what I say.

It only appears to be bad, you don't see what's goin on before and after, you just see the bad part (the kid dying).


I agree.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Naz-T on April 12, 2002, 12:37:17 PM
Quote
One thing that fustrates me is people using what people do as an excuse to stop believing in God. The world is fucked up, always will be, will never stop until Jesus comes back to Earth (I'm a Catholic and I'll take that to my grave). Everything in the worlddone in the Lord's name, most off it is used to opress others. All the Holy Wars, Europe colonies around the world taking land from "savages" so that they can save them, slavery, suicide bombings, opression kings, terriorism both on gays and family plaining clinics and other nations, blockades on countries so that the people can starve and much much more. All of this in the name of religion. So if God truly exist, then why does he allow this to happen.

The answer is simple, God created us in is image, he loves us with a love so great that we can not understand it. And with this, he give us free will. The suffering on Earth is not for heaven. I know in all my heart that suffering here is not everything, because God is allowing me to make my own choices so that I can go to heaven. God has given me the greatest gift of them all FREE WILL.

God gave us free will so that we can make are own choices. From the beginning, God gave Adam and Eve a great place to live, and told them not to eat an apple, well everyone knows that story, and from there we have been a creature of sin. In the old testament, the Jews wanted a form of government, and this became trouble as they looked at there relationship to God as a model. What they found was God ruled over them, so using that, one would rule over them, as God would. God disaproved, but as we all know, this started a government system that stood strong for over 3,000 years, if not more. God stepped aside and allowed the Jews to crown a king. The old testament is strongly against slavery, but when slavery was being inforced, black were read the Bible to make it seem as if slavery was a command of God. But God gave us free will to make Earth how we want it. It's almost like his testing us, and letting us hurt each other. But the goal isn't to make your life on Earth better, but to look forward to Heaven.


I agree even more, how can we blmae wars on God, when its US doing it.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: PakiGangsta on April 12, 2002, 02:25:11 PM
i don't kno if this post will make me stupid or not......but its better if we shud'nt discuss in such a hyper way........it may create hateness and beef with all of u loving friends.......

do it politeyly.....don't prove that ur religion iz wrong but appreciate it......but still......in ur mind........make ur own religion the best one......

by the way...i';mn a muslim and MUSLIMS ARE DA BEsT !!

lol.........hehe

eZ
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 13, 2002, 02:27:18 AM
Quote
Go study philosophy, then, God's existance was proven at least 5 times by Thomas Aquinas.  Check out 'The Summa" which puts all his research, thought, and discussions about the subject of god's existence.  


I did an still missin' sumthing!

Peace! (no beef or diss, aight?)
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 13, 2002, 02:28:24 AM
Quote
i don't kno if this post will make me stupid or not......but its better if we shud'nt discuss in such a hyper way........it may create hateness and beef with all of u loving friends.......

do it politeyly.....don't prove that ur religion iz wrong but appreciate it......but still......in ur mind........make ur own religion the best one.
eZ



^^with that i agree!

Peace 1!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 13, 2002, 02:31:22 AM
In my mind i continue with tha same question: Isnt religion a creation of  humans cuz they feel they need it?

Arent godz creations of da human mind, sucha as ghosts an angels?


Peace 1!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ITW [the irish boy] on April 13, 2002, 04:46:53 AM
Trauma --Why are you here?  Just to fart around, screw who you like, then die after about 70 years--

Sounds damn good to me.lol. Is that meant to be a bad thing?

Anyway, I think god's there for people who need him to be there. I've gotten through hard times without him/her/it so I don't see why I should start now. Shit happens, and has happened to me, but it will happen whether or not I believe in god so fuck it. If your all worshiping him coz u think u'll have a better afterlife, I say live in the now, and have a better current-life. We dont know if theres an afterlife so stop hoping, we know we're living RIGHT NOW, while ur reading this post, so fucking ENJOY IT!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 13, 2002, 05:41:43 AM
:)

Like i said on the other thread, look up Thomas Aquinas on the internet.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: techniec on April 13, 2002, 06:23:54 PM
Quote


I agree even more, how can we blmae wars on God, when its US doing it.


HA HA LOL

nice statement,

why blame wars on God when the US doing it!!! lol
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Jay ay Beee on April 14, 2002, 09:25:53 AM
LoL by the way I go to Saint Thomas Aquinas Catholic School

Thats the equivalent to High School i think

Just thought I'd add that as Trauma was talking bout him
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 14, 2002, 10:08:26 AM
Quote
LoL by the way I go to Saint Thomas Aquinas Catholic School

Thats the equivalent to High School i think

Just thought I'd add that as Trauma was talking bout him


Good luck fo' yur studies! By the way ..are goin' to study Latin? (or did you already did it?)

Holla!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Don Seer on April 14, 2002, 11:17:30 PM
There is no spoon.. I mean god.

I treat 'god' (any god) as a legacy passed down from old times... i like the idea of it being a real thing *once* - like a great man, leader  - a civiliser of peoples not a warrior.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 14, 2002, 11:20:06 PM
Quote
What I wanna know is, why do people feel the need to believe in god? Is it societal, personal, or what? I have never believed in a god, nor do I have any desire to, but I wanna know why people do.

peace,
tnp


I dont know if i believe in God or not, but i lean towards tha negative on it. people believe in God for a few reasons i think. One is, because they were just raised that way, and know NUTHING else. My ex was very much that way. She was just taught to believe what is in tha bible and never question it (blind shit to me). Another reason people believe in a God, is basically to feel safe. Sort of tha same premise as tha "blanket" that u carry around when u are a babee, that protects u somehow. Although we all know that it doesnt, u FEEL safe frum it. As humans, we are intellectually the dominant species...but i think for many people...that scares them. They need to feel that there is sumthing LEADING THEM, rather then LEADING THEMSELVES. Ive alwayz been one tah believe science over religion, seeing as how science is based on fact and not belief. Ill be tha first tah say tho, that if religion makes YOU a stronger/ better person...then go for it. But if it doesnt do tha same for me, then its not for me. And doesnt make me any better or worse. I think, in tha end...we all see the same fate. Death is Death. Regardless of yur beliefs when u are here. Sumthing so simple, "death", but made to be so complicated. U know, i aint a "Star Trek" fan in tha least. But once when i was little i watched an episode of this shit. And, what happened in that show made more sense to me then religion. The crew basically went onto a planet where tha people lived simple lives (compared to tha more futuristic life of tha people on tha ship). The people there didnt have electronics or anything like that, similar to what people of tha past were like on earth. When tha people on tha planet met tha Crew frum tha ship....saw all their advanced ways...they immediatly assumed they were Gods, and worshipped them. Thas the nature of people. And to me, tha idea of sumthing SIMILAR to that happening LONG ago makes far more sense then tha whole "God" thing.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 15, 2002, 09:12:03 AM
Quote
There is no spoon.. I mean god.

I treat 'god' (any god) as a legacy passed down from old times... i like the idea of it being a real thing *once* - like a great man, leader  - a civiliser of peoples not a warrior.


I believe its the best way to see it!^^

Peace 1!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 15, 2002, 10:22:36 AM
Well, All I can do for yall is give you my testimony, then.  Not that it'll help, or you'll care, or you'll even believe it, LOL but it's what I've learned in my life.  I know that God does exist, and Jesus christ is his only begotten son.  Jesus Christ died and suffered on the cross in Calvary, and in the garden of Gesemene (spelling?) for all of our sins, whether you believe in him or not.  I know this happened, and it's had a very positive effect on my life.  The positive, every day, REAL, right-here effects this knowledge has had on my life are endless, and transcend every aspect of my being.  I also know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints is a true church, the lord's true church, restored by the prophet Joseph Smith for these latter days, and that the church has a modern-day prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, who serves as the lords messenger.  I know this, And I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen :)
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 15, 2002, 01:15:05 PM
Quote
Well, All I can do for yall is give you my testimony, then.  Not that it'll help, or you'll care, or you'll even believe it, LOL but it's what I've learned in my life.  I know that God does exist, and Jesus christ is his only begotten son.  Jesus Christ died and suffered on the cross in Calvary, and in the garden of Gesemene (spelling?) for all of our sins, whether you believe in him or not.  I know this happened, and it's had a very positive effect on my life.  The positive, every day, REAL, right-here effects this knowledge has had on my life are endless, and transcend every aspect of my being.  I also know that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints is a true church, the lord's true church, restored by the prophet Joseph Smith for these latter days, and that the church has a modern-day prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, who serves as the lords messenger.  I know this, And I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen :)


see, tha only word i trip on in yur whole post man...is tha word "KNOW". There is no way to "know". Otha then that, itz all good lol

Also, tha title of this thread is..."If u dont believe in any god post here". YOU posted here....hmmmmmmm  :P lol j/k
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 15, 2002, 05:24:33 PM
I do know.  But you wouldn't know anything about that, LOL.

I mean, I know my brother loves me, but how the hell can I express that to you?  What could I do to make you believe that?  Nothing... You might assume it's true, but you can't know by anything I say.  That's the problem with religion, too, I can't MAKE you believe in something... but that doesn't make it any faker, or mean it's not there for me.  Frankly, I could care less whether you believe in God, I do, and I know he exists.  You don't, but that doesn't change my perspective one bit, and vice versa.  

So, yeah, I do know.  But I can't prove it to you.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Suga Foot on April 15, 2002, 07:04:46 PM
I personally do not belive in god.  I'm more of a factual kind of guy.  I think of humans as animals that evolved from monkeys.  The main reason we are on this planet is to reproduce.  Just like other animals are.  I'm happy with my life the way it is and i feel i don't need any gods in my life.  I'm not saying this is everyone, but a lot of people i know rely on god for things, and personally, i think that's just stupid.  Live your life to the fullest, which ever way you may choose to.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 16, 2002, 01:50:13 AM
Quote
I do know.  But you wouldn't know anything about that, LOL.

I mean, I know my brother loves me, but how the hell can I express that to you?  What could I do to make you believe that?  Nothing... You might assume it's true, but you can't know by anything I say.  That's the problem with religion, too, I can't MAKE you believe in something... but that doesn't make it any faker, or mean it's not there for me.  Frankly, I could care less whether you believe in God, I do, and I know he exists.  You don't, but that doesn't change my perspective one bit, and vice versa.  

So, yeah, I do know.  But I can't prove it to you.


Itz cool man, i aint tryna argue with u about whether its real or not. I know its real to u. All im saying is, theres MANY different sides to an argument. Religion is very complex, because it is a belief...but at tha same time, people base their entire way of living around it. So its hard to tell people to look at it, frum different angles....they dont want to, or jus cant. for me, im not POSITIVE that religion is fake...but im not POSITIVE that it is real. Since it IS a belief. there is no PROOF of it, only speculation and theory. Id be tha first person to tell sum1, that if religion makes u a stronger PERSON, or a better person...then its the right thing for u. but i also believe, that sum1 is capable of being just as strong of a person, and just as good of a person without religion. it all depends on what works for them. But it seems as tho most religious people cant see things that way. I respect them, as they respect me. Neither one of us is better. Too bad so many people have died in tha name of their religion because sum people cant seem to figure that out.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 16, 2002, 02:52:39 AM
Well, good then, LOL.  We both agree ;)

Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 16, 2002, 09:32:53 PM
Quote
Well, good then, LOL.  We both agree ;)



hell muthafuckin NO! lol
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: TheSheriff on April 17, 2002, 06:18:38 AM
Okay, Suga Foot, explain to me sentience, philosophy, the soul...

I KNOW, I categorically KNOW God exists. Evolution is just a theory. I don't expect God to help me out in my life, but he does anyway.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: bLaDe on April 17, 2002, 07:11:25 AM
Aight....I DO belive in God, and ive found He exsits....see, its not our place to question where we come from, where does God come from, or who is he, ....This profound question in the mind of man will ever remain unanswered because we can only realize God but we cannot tell what He is. The only way to describe God is....A mute person, after tasting sugar, knows the taste, enjoys it and expresses it through a smile. But being unable to speak, he cannot speak a word about what sugar is like. God is love,hence immensely sweet, many times more sweet than anything in this world.  Holy persons love God,they enjoy the sweetness but cannot say anything by which we can know and understand Waheguru. There is no language and no thing available in this world which can be quoted to describe Waheguru. Therefore,only similes, however incomplete or unrepresentative they may be, have been offered by holy persons. That is the best they can do to explain their mystic experiences of the spiritual world (God) to those living
in this mundane world.  I know thats true cuz when i goto the temple, and these few people are singing holy hyms, and i see my mom  'entranced' by them....and how she tells me that its jus so 'sweet' n she feels closer to God and stuff....and how I feel at peace.....i know thaz true, and even my Granddad has stories to prove Gods exsistance.
Another IMPORTANT thing is, that we are not doing a favour to God by praying to him, we are praying  to him for OUR OWN BENIFICIAL......

As for the people who said God does not hear the cries of people, and how kids die etc......theres a LOT of things beyond our understanding and consider to be "evil"...... and half of them are MAN-MADE, and CAUSED BY MAN......NOT GOD.  In the Sikh holy book, God is described as A Father, Mother,Protector, etc. These words are used to remind us
about some of His virtues. God (Waheguru) is the cause of our birth (creation). He nurses us, protects us, and does everything else to make our lives happy, the way parents do for their children.
Before creating humans and other living beings,Waheguru created the sun, moon, water, air, plants,etc. He also created whatever was required by the people to live comfortably. All things are a gift from Waheguru to us as children are given all things free with love by their parents. There are MANY OTHER THINGS that we have not yet discovered which have been created by GOD. The earth, sun, rain, air, darkness,etc. have been so adjusted that they produce innumerable kinds of foods for our consumption. NO scientist with all the latest technology has EVER been able to create a single grain or fruit in his laboratory. This is done by God alone under His own laws. These natural phenomena are so set that the earth produces different kinds of foods in different regions. Man is required only to put the Waheguru-given seeds in the soil and harvest the fruit.
GOD IS OUR FATHER AND MOTHER....an example is, A mother, having a physical existence, is visible to her children. GoD also has a physical form and is visible to us as "Mother Nature".
When we see a mother with a baby in her lap, we know that the baby and the mother were once one, i.e., the baby was a part of the mother. The same thing can be said about us and God. We have been created by Waheguru, we were part of Him. We are HIS children. We can enjoy the love of God and feel the peace as well as comfort in our heart in the same way as a baby does in the lap of its mother. However, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a baby to describe the mother, understand how and when she was born, from where she gets food and other necessities, how she built the house, etc. After becoming an 'ADULT', the baby knows all about the answers to these questions and understands her well. In the same way, when we 'children' grow spiritually to be 'adults' we can understand our Mother, Waheguru. That is the only way to know Waheguru. As long as we are 'babies' we will not be able to know our 'Mother'.
As long as something is helping me and my family, and as long as there are no bad effects, I will continue to do it.


Thats what I BELIVE, and will continue to, Peace.....
 
 -{bLaDe}
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 17, 2002, 11:09:31 AM
Quote
Okay, Suga Foot, explain to me sentience, philosophy, the soul...

I KNOW, I categorically KNOW God exists. Evolution is just a theory. I don't expect God to help me out in my life, but he does anyway.


there are scientific facts to back up evolution, there are NONE that back up tha existence of God.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: TheSheriff on April 17, 2002, 11:49:31 AM
Note the "scientific", children.

Science is a religion like any other. Except it holds no self-worth in it.

There are religious facts which prove God exists. However, there are none which prove evolution.

Don't like that? It makes as much sense as your statement.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 17, 2002, 12:29:23 PM
Quote
Note the "scientific", children.

Science is a religion like any other. Except it holds no self-worth in it.

There are religious facts which prove God exists. However, there are none which prove evolution.

Don't like that? It makes as much sense as your statement.


*yawn*

I have neva ONCE in my life heard any relgious person give me any SOLID proof of their religion existing. Only comments like "i know it does", "because the bible says so" , "It was answered in a prayer". That typa bullshit. So, u basically jus fell in line with tha others. I aint sayin NOT to be religious. Im asking, wheres tha PROOF? And guess what, there will NEVER be SOLID proof...only speculation.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: TheSheriff on April 17, 2002, 12:44:30 PM
It is only speculation evolution exists. Explain sentience, for example. Even Darwin admitted it had many holes in it. Modern investigative scientists no longer even take a look at it.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 17, 2002, 04:35:55 PM
Tone, i've already told you: Thomas Aquinas proved god's existance at least 5 times, if you need to go that way.  At least 3 of them, to me, are irrefutable evidence that god exists.


Blade: Very, very, very well put.  I agree with nearly everything you said, especially, very, very especially the part about us not being mature enough to totally comprehend god, and that we as children grow.  That's a very latter day saint belief, as well as a Sikhism belief.  Awesome.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Suga Foot on April 17, 2002, 04:53:05 PM
K i got an example of evolution.  I saw this on TV a while ago so i don't really have all the facts but here goes, there is this type of fish that swims in caves in the ocean, about 100 years ago, these type of fish had eyes, in present day, the fish are born with skin over thier eyes (they have no need for eyes since its' so dark in the caves), this is evolution.


Another example and probably a better one is, wisdom teeth.  Thousands of years ago, neanderthals ate food often with sand, rocks, etc. in it. their molars would often get ground down or even fall out.  The wisdom teeth were like backup teeth.  In present day, we have no need for wisdom teeth so they are often pulled out.  And in some people, they never even grow them at all.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Suga Foot on April 17, 2002, 05:01:06 PM
Read:

In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined.




I found some VERY interesting stuff here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/religion/faith/index.html
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: bLaDe on April 17, 2002, 05:04:50 PM
Evolution.....it all started with the Big Bang...but who caused that?

 -{bLaDe}
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Don Seer on April 17, 2002, 08:33:26 PM
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Tone, i've already told you: Thomas Aquinas proved god's existance at least 5 times, if you need to go that way.  At least 3 of them, to me, are irrefutable evidence that god exists.


Blade: Very, very, very well put.  I agree with nearly everything you said, especially, very, very especially the part about us not being mature enough to totally comprehend god, and that we as children grow.  That's a very latter day saint belief, as well as a Sikhism belief.  Awesome.


http://www.newadvent.org/summa/100203.htm

^-- that doesn't prove anything to me


anything in a 'gray' area is just put down to god to make ppl comfortable.

just because science doesn't know everything (which is the fun of the chase for a scientist) doesn't mean that 'god' did it.


LOL.. just found this guy 'arguing with Christians is a hobby of mine'
http://home.talkcity.com/librarydr/eztoamuse/

theres some interesting stuff there.. especially (to me) on how christians 'bit' stuff from older eygyptian tales.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: ToNe1904 on April 17, 2002, 09:56:38 PM
Quote


http://www.newadvent.org/summa/100203.htm

^-- that doesn't prove anything to me


anything in a 'gray' area is just put down to god to make ppl comfortable.

just because science doesn't know everything (which is the fun of the chase for a scientist) doesn't mean that 'god' did it.


LOL.. just found this guy 'arguing with Christians is a hobby of mine'
http://home.talkcity.com/librarydr/eztoamuse/

theres some interesting stuff there.. especially (to me) on how christians 'bit' stuff from older eygyptian tales.


^^Overseer got his head on strait! lol
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Trauma-san on April 18, 2002, 12:53:57 AM
All the stuff about christians 'biting' something can either be chalked up to


1. Prophesy being fulfilled.  I.E., God revealed his religion a piece at a time; for example, the religion in the old testament involved sacrifices, etc. but after Jesus was crucified, it was no longer necessary.  That's why you have things that christians do AFTER christ, that weren't done by the jewish/christian religion before christ.

2. Latter Day saints fully acknowledge the perversion of christianity... for example, we don't believe christmas, nor easter, are accurate days for either event, and both are pagan holidays, even though we still celebrate them for principle.  We also don't believe in crucifixes, or crosses as symbols of Jesus, etc.

Thomas Aquinas to me was a genius.  I think his 'everything has a predetermined form' argument is irrefutable, but I guess you just refuted it, haha.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Joachim on April 18, 2002, 01:35:55 AM
Quote

LOL.. just found this guy 'arguing with Christians is a hobby of mine'
http://home.talkcity.com/librarydr/eztoamuse/

theres some interesting stuff there.. especially (to me) on how christians 'bit' stuff from older eygyptian tales.


Woah, this cat got me questioning my religion, thats pretty dope, lots of interesting information...
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: Don Seer on April 18, 2002, 02:28:17 AM
i just learned something from that site.. I never really knew what an Agnostic was, i just thought it was like an Atheist... which it is, but theres a difference.

Atheism: The belief that there are no gods.

Agnosticism: The belief that the nature of a god, including its existence, is ultimately unknowable.

Not quite sure where I fit.. probably in both catergories depending on the issue at hand.

The thing that irks me the most about the form of modern christianity are the many 'interpretations' deviating from the original texts which corrupt and romanticise things.
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: doggmastah on April 19, 2002, 08:13:08 AM
Quote


Atheism: The belief that there are no gods.

Agnosticism: The belief that the nature of a god, including its existence, is ultimately unknowable.

I fit.. probably in both catergories depending on the issue at hand.


Me too! Fo' sho'! ^^

Peace1!
Title: Re: If u dont believe in any god post here
Post by: TheSheriff on April 23, 2002, 04:33:23 PM
"You've never been to Paris (the moon, etc.) but you believe in that, don't you?

I've seen cities. I don't doubt that more exist, than I will visit in my lifetime. I've never, in all my life, experienced a spiritual being, a soul, a deity, or a convincing miracle. "

Direct proof the man is eating sour grapes. He can't find faith-real or fake or whatever-so he insults it. If he had been touched by God, he wouldn't be saying the same now, would he?

Science is a belief like any other. We must, in fact, believe and have faith that Darwin actually wrote his theory. We must, in fact, question whether anything we have seen we actually saw, for it may have been a figment of our imagination.

But "scientists" have enough faith in their path to assume Darwin existed and that he wrote his theory of evolution, and that the world has always existed, and they are not just dreaming.

"I feel pity for you.

This, from someone whose self-esteem is so low, you must invent an invisible god who loves you?"

And now he degrades himself further by simply insulting people.

The man destroys his own valid and credible argument by acting like a cretin to those who don't agree with him.