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Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Don Rizzle on May 02, 2004, 06:39:06 AM

Title: British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Don Rizzle on May 02, 2004, 06:39:06 AM
Iraq torture photos row widens
More doubts have been raised over the authenticity of photos apparently showing UK soldiers torturing an Iraqi captive.
Tory defence spokesman Nicholas Soames questioned the decision of the Daily Mirror to publish the pictures.

And sources close to the Army have raised discrepancies over the clothing worn in the pictures, the rifle held, and the vehicle in the background.

The Mirror says extensive checks were carried out to establish the photos' veracity and that it has no doubts.

An investigation has begun into claims, also carried in the Mirror, that British troops assaulted the prisoner before throwing him from a lorry.

Mr Soames said: "One has to wonder at the behaviour of the Mirror in publishing these pictures where there is clearly a question mark over their veracity.

"These pictures... will have made the life of British forces on the ground in Basra even more difficult than it is already.

"We need to be a little more cautious before rushing to judgement."

Army scepticism

Tony Blair says that if the photos are authentic this is "completely and totally unacceptable".

The pictures show a hooded man being urinated on, a boot placed on his head, and a rifle butt in his groin.

However, BBC defence correspondent Paul Adams says sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment believe many aspects of the photographs are suspicious.

He says they believe the pictures may not have even been taken in Iraq.

They believe the rifle is an SA80 mk 1 - which was not issued to troops in Iraq.

They say soldiers in Iraq wore berets or hard hats - and not floppy hats as in the photos.

They also believe the wrong type of Bedford truck is shown in the background - a type never deployed in Iraq.

Our correspondent said the regiment concerned had suffered a difficult tour of Iraq, with charges expected to be brought in the case of a man beaten to death in custody.

Colonel Bob Stewart, who commanded British forces in the Balkans, told BBC News Online he could not be sure whether the photos were genuine or not.

There is no place in our regiment for individuals capable of such appalling and sickening behaviour
The Queen's Lancashire Regiment

As well as questions over the rifle, vehicle and hat, he also pointed out that there were discrepancies over clothing and the condition of the captive.
"The shirt looks like a football shirt. Is that the sort of shirt that a captive might be wearing, slightly silky with an Iraqi flag?

"Why is it not dirty and dishevelled, why is the man not showing some signs of damage after eight hours of beatings?

"Why would the soldiers be wearing webbing that is undone? Normally soldiers are very particular about that."

But Colonel Stewart said whether the photos were proven to be real or fake the damage done to Iraqi and Arab opinion was "like a cork out of a bottle", acting as a recruiting sergeant for the insurgents.

"What happens to the next British soldier who is taken hostage?"

He said if it was real, those behind the captive's ordeal, or fake, those responsible for mocking it up, were responsible for extra casualties and deaths.
Foreign Secretary Jack Straw told the BBC's Breakfast with Frost programme: "There is a very high-level investigation taking place. The allegations are terrible."

But he refused to be drawn on what compensation any victims of maltreatment would be offered, or on the outcome of the inquiry.

"Of course it follows we will accept whatever obligations there are upon us."

Army spokesman Roger Goodwin, on behalf of The Queen's Lancashire Regiment, said: "Whether the soldiers involved in the alleged atrocities were members of the QLR needs to be established.

"There is no place in our regiment for individuals capable of such appalling and sickening behaviour."

Story from BBC NEWS:
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Diabolical on May 02, 2004, 02:18:21 PM
Yeah I thought they looked fake.
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Woodrow on May 02, 2004, 06:58:30 PM

Sun May 02 2004 19:49:47 ET

Hundreds of photographs have been taken of British servicemen mistreating Iraqi civilians, it was claimed tonight.

Troops serving in southern Iraq have been swapping the pictures among themselves, said the unnamed soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment who sparked furore over the weekend by releasing photos apparently showing UK personnel abusing an Iraqi prisoner.

The potentially explosive claims, if proven, would contradict Prime Minister Tony Blair's assurance that any misconduct in British ranks was "exceptional" and limited to a handful of servicemen.

Doubts were cast today on the authenticity of the photos, published in the Daily Mirror yesterday, which appeared to show the hooded man being struck with a rifle butt, urinated on and having a gun held to his head.

Sources close to the regiment claimed the rifle, hats and truck seen in the pictures did not match those issued to men in Iraq, and queried why there was no sign of sweat, dirt or injuries on the body of the victim of the alleged assault.

But tonight the soldiers who made the pictures public told the Mirror: "We stand by every single word of our story.

"This happened, it is not a hoax and the Army knows a lot more has happened."

The Royal Military Police is carrying out an urgent inquiry into claims that the man was subjected to an eight-hour ordeal after being picked up in Iraq for suspected theft last year.

It was claimed that he had his jaw broken and teeth smashed before being dumped from a moving vehicle.

In tomorrow's edition of the Mirror, the soldiers detail other alleged incidents of brutality towards local people, including a baton attack which left a prisoner with a compound fracture to his arm.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, one of the soldiers said: "Maybe the officers don't know what is going on - but everybody else does. I have seen literally hundreds of pictures."

Many of the pictures were destroyed last September when the soldiers' luggage was searched as they left Iraq, they said.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said the authorities were not aware of other photos of prisoners being mistreated or of a culture of trading pictures.

"If people have got evidence of such activity, then they should bring it to the attention of the Army authorities. We won't stand for activity like that," he said.




Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Real American on May 03, 2004, 04:59:22 PM
I still don't understand the hysteria over these photos of Iraqis being mistreated by the Us soldiers. Yes it was wrong what happened to them, but lets get some perspective.  The people that did this have already been held accountable. Besides, I can think of alot worse torture then having nude pictures taken of you. Do you remember what the Iraqis did to some of our POW's? They killed them mutiliated their bodies, dragged them through the streets, and then strung them up from a bridge.

Hell, today in Saudi Arabia some Muslims killed 4 westerners, tied their bodies to a car, and drove around the streets of the country. Yet every website I see is going on and on about some naked Iraqis. To me there seems to be a racist double standard against America.
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Don Seer on May 03, 2004, 11:03:09 PM
its like liberal racism..
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Don Rizzle on May 04, 2004, 03:25:28 AM
the thing is we're supposed to be better than that. we wouldn't stand for such human rights abuses in our prisons why should iraqi's be subject to it BY US, the other thing is if u believe the stories around the photos some of the iraqi's were ordinary civilians and had done no wrong
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: ITW [the irish boy] on May 04, 2004, 02:44:58 PM
cwalker, im sure if you look back you were angered by american soldiers simply being shown on tv. this is a whole lot worse than that.

the reason it's so appaling is that this is the very thing people who supported the war thought they were putting a stop to. Like engelwood said it is sickening, and it undermines the right of britain, america or any country for that matter to enforce a change of regime on other countries.
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Don Rizzle on May 14, 2004, 08:35:26 AM
btw the the british photos have proven to be fake now, it was made in britain funnily enough at the lancashire barracks or somink. although i'm not denying the allegations its sad that our own soldiers would fake this, the situation a whole lot more dangerous for their fellow soldiers out in iraq now.i don't any of the pictures british or american should have been published at all, its fine to run the story but for the last two weeks i've had the pictures forced into my face and i'm sure its the same all over the world, we gonna be feeling this for many months believe me.
Title: Re:British torture photos mite be fake...
Post by: Don Seer on May 14, 2004, 10:04:49 AM
piers morgan (editor of the mirror) got sacked too.

they're blasting him for endangering our troops.