West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Don Rizzle on May 19, 2004, 09:52:10 AM
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Israelis fire on crowds in Gaza
The Israeli army has opened fire on a crowd of Palestinian demonstrators in the town of Rafah in southern Gaza.
At least 10 people were killed and 60 injured, though some reports put the number of casualties higher.
The army said it did not deliberately target protesters, but a helicopter and tanks had fired warning shots to stop crowds entering a battle zone.
Thousands of people were demonstrating against a massive Israeli operation in the refugee camp on the edge of Rafah.
We are very concerned about reports from Gaza and the number of Palestinians who are said to be injured and killed
US spokesman Scott McClellan
Israeli forces entered Rafah refugee camp on Tuesday to attack militants and find and destroy tunnels used to smuggle weapons.
It has been one of the largest and bloodiest operations in Gaza since Israel occupied it in 1967, leaving at least 34 dead and 100 wounded. There have been no Israeli casualties.
The United States says it is "very concerned" about the number of Palestinian dead and injured and has asked Israel for "the facts".
"We urge all parties to exercise maximum restraint," said White House press secretary Scott McClellan.
Hospital chaos
The incident happened as about 3,000 demonstrators marched down the main street of Rafah towards the Tel Sultan area where Israeli raids have been concentrated in the last two days.
Dramatic TV footage of the incident showed a large explosion going off in the middle of a crowd as Israeli helicopters flew overhead firing anti-missile flares.
Dozens of wounded - many of them children - were evacuated by ambulance, private cars and donkey carts to the Rafah hospital, witnesses said.
A BBC correspondent at the hospital said the floors were drenched in blood as doctors treated incoming patients in corridors and on staircases.
The Israeli military said it was too early to say exactly what had happened, although it suggested that explosives laid by Palestinians could have been responsible.
Army spokeswoman Brig Gen Ruth Yaron said that Israeli forces had fired warning shots after seeing "armed men in the midst of the demonstration".
"Tank shells were fired at [an abandoned] structure, at no point in the direction of the demonstrators," she said, although she admitted that it was possible that there may have been "casualties as a result of the tank shells".
"We regret the loss of innocent life and are offering to treat those who are injured in our hospitals," she added.
Besieged district
The bloodshed came shortly after reports that thousands of Tel Sultan residents had complied with an Israeli demand that they surrender.
Twenty-four Palestinians have already died in Tel Sultan during an operation dubbed "Operation Rainbow" by the Israeli army.
Soldiers had called on loudspeakers for all males aged 16 or over to come out carrying white flags or risk the demolition of their family homes.
Israeli commanders later told journalists they only wanted militants to come out.
Israeli actions have raised an international outcry after army chief Lt Gen Moshe Yaalon said troops would flatten rows of homes in Rafah camp to widen a patrol road along the border with Egypt.
Palestinian militants are active in the area, and seven Israeli soldiers were killed nearby in ambushes last week.
The area also houses tunnels for smuggling weapons from Egyptian territory less than a kilometre away, the army says.
However, the army said on Tuesday that there was no plan to carry out systematic demolition of homes during the operation.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/3728681.stm
PNA and Arab Group Call for Security Council Deliberation on Rafah
18/05/2004
Palestinian National Authority (PNA) and the Arab member states in the United Nations called yesterday for convening an extraordinary session of the security council in the wake of the Israeli unjustified demolition of hundreds of Palestinian-owned houses in the Gaza Strip city of Rafah.
Nabil Abu Rodeina, President Yasser Arafat’s advisor, stated Monday that the PNA would ask the United Nations’ Security Council to convene urgently to deliberate the Israeli decision to knock down hundreds of Palestinian houses in Rafah, labeling the Israeli move as “a genocide against the Palestinian people” and warning of the ‘grave consequences’ of such an Israeli escalation.
From his part, head of the Palestinian Legislative Council, Rawhi Fatouh, was quoted as saying that “such a decision is one more evidence that Israel is following a policy of state-sponsored terrorism, derived from Israel’s racist ideology, that is based on war crimes, genocide and collective punishment”.
On the Arab level, the Arab states group in the United Nations joined the PNA in its call for the urgent session of the Security Council, a matter deemed very necessary by the group, as the demolition constitutes one more Nakbah ‘catastrophe’ for Palestinian refugees.
The League of Arab States, declared yesterday that the demolition of houses in Rafah as well as the displacement of its inhabitants, is a ‘war crime’, that requires a firm position by the international community.
In the meantime, the UNRWA, is to meet the emerging needs of displaced families in Rafah, has rapidly appraised the situation by ensuring tents, kitchen nets and blankets for at least 1,500 Palestinian inhabitants and demanding Israel to halt knocking down of houses.
United Nations Commissioner General for Refugees Affairs in the Near East, Mr. Peter Hanssan, said “the demolition of houses has been rapidly increasing recently , a fact that has required the UNRWA to tackle the emerging human disaster by helping those who lost their homes”
Hanssan warned of more houses demolition in Rafah, confirming such actions are real breaching of the international humanitarian law, as this is a part of the collective punishment policy.
Noteworthy, Israeli occupying forces began early on Tuesday a large-scale military campaign in Rafah, killing at least 13 Palestinians, wounding dozens others and resuming destruction of more Palestinian houses amidst harsh criticism for such Israeli offensives against the Palestinian refugees.
Source: MOFA + IPC
The World and American people need to know the ongoing and dangerous tragedy between Palestinians , Israelis and the US policies towards this tragedy . As lives of the young and old Palestinians are increasingly lost and devastated, the US policies keep on supporting Israel.
The following statistics shows how fair the US policies towards the Palestinian people :
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/chart1_small.gif)
The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $568,744 to Palestinian NGO's
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/deaths_chart.gif)
892 Israelis and 2,546 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/injuries_chart.gif)
5,973 Israelis and 23,930 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/econ_chart.gif)
The Israeli unemployment rate is 10.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 37-67%
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/schools_chart.gif)
1 Israeli school has been fired upon by Palestinians and 185 Palestinian schools have been shelled or fired upon by Israelis since September 29, 2000
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/homes_chart.gif)
1 Israeli home has been destroyed by Palestinians and 2,202 Palestinian homes have been completely destroyed (14,436 partially destroyed) since September 29, 2000
(http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/images/settlements_chart.gif)
60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements
Source : www.ifamericansknew.org
http://www.mofa.gov.ps/Statistics/index.asp
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Its time for sanctions, sanctions helped end apartheid in South Africa and i can help end Israels version of apartheid. Add to this massacre the report from Amnesty International yesterday accussing Israel of War Crimes for the 3,000 homes, agricultural land destroyed by Israeli.
THE FOURTH GENEVA CONVENTION
Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, bans 'any destruction' of property by an occupying power, except when absolutely necessary for military reasons. Article 147 states 'extensive destruction and appropriation of property unjustified by military necessity' (defined as 'measures essential to attain the goals of war ... in accordance with the laws and customs of war') is a grave breach, and hence a war crime.
Article 33 of the Convention stipulates: 'No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed.' The Red Cross says acts such as the destruction of the house belonging to the family of an alleged offender are prohibited, without exception.
Israel's creating a new Berlin wall, taking Palestinian land, stealing water, murdering children, protesters, stoping ambulances, creating curfews.
-95% of Israel's lands are open for development to Jews only.
-Israeli-Palestinian citizens live almost in segregated communities because development is strictly limited outside their villages
-For being Jewish you gain an automatic citizenship in Israel, Plus tens of thousands of dollars in subsidies too.
-Palestinian Muslims or Christians refugees, who were born in the country and later expelled, cannot gain Israeli citizenship.
-In 1917, more than 92% of the population of Palestine were Arabs and that there were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine. Muslim, Christian, and Jewish Palestinians at that time lived in peace with each other
-Palestinians in the early 20th century owned 97.5% of the land, while Jews (native Palestinians and recent immigrants together) owned only 2.5% of the land
-Close to 4 million Palestinian Muslims and Christians are being subjected to Israeli laws that are different than the laws governing the 4.5 million Israeli Jews
-In the occupied West Bank there are "Jewish Roads" and "Non-Jewish Roads"
-Israel issues national identify cards where the religion of the card holder is clearly bolded
-Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza hold ID cards that are of different colors than the cards held by Israeli settlers.
April 29, 2002 In our struggle against apartheid, the great supporters were Jewish people. They almost instinctively had to be on the side of the disenfranchised, of the voiceless ones, fighting injustice, oppression and evil. I have continued to feel strongly with the Jews. I am patron of a Holocaust centre in South Africa. I believe Israel has a right to secure borders.
What is not so understandable, not justified, is what it did to another people to guarantee its existence. I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about.
My heart aches. I say why are our memories so short. Have our Jewish sisters and brothers forgotten their humiliation? Have they forgotten the collective punishment, the home demolitions, in their own history so soon? Have they turned their backs on their profound and noble religious traditions? Have they forgotten that God cares deeply about the downtrodden?
Israel will never get true security and safety through oppressing another people. A true peace can ultimately be built only on justice. We condemn the violence of suicide bombers, and we condemn the corruption of young minds taught hatred; but we also condemn the violence of military incursions in the occupied lands, and the inhumanity that won't let ambulances reach the injured.
-Archbishop Desmond Tutu
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its no use israel needs to be told in no uncertain terms to give the land back or be forced out
UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: "...‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...‘recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
Resolution 237: "...‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
Resolution 248: "...‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
Resolution 250: "...‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
Resolution 251: "...‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
Resolution 252: "...‘declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
Resolution 256: "...‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation"
Resolution 259: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
Resolution 262: "...‘condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
Resolution 265: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
Resolution 267: "...‘censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 270: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
Resolution 271: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
Resolution 279: "...‘demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 280: "....‘condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 285: "...‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
Resolution 298: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 313: "...‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 316: "...‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 317: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
Resolution 332: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 337: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty"
Resolution 347: "...‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 425: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 427: "...‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’
Resolution 444: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
Resolution 446: "...‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 450: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
Resolution 452: "...‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
Resolution 465: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program"
Resolution 467: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon"
Resolution 468: "...‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
Resolution 469: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians"
Resolution 471: "...‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 476: "...‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void’
Resolution 478: "...‘censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law’
Resolution 484: "...‘declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
Resolution 487: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility"
Resolution 497: "...‘decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
Resolution 498: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
Resolution 501: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
Resolution 509: "...‘demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
Resolution 515: "...‘demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
Resolution 517: "...‘censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 518: "...‘demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
Resolution 520: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut"
Resolution 573: "...‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
Resolution 587: "...‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
Resolution 592: "...‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
Resolution 605: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
Resolution 607: "...‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 608: "...‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 636: "...‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
Resolution 641: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 672: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
Resolution 673: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
Resolution 681: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 694: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
Resolution 726: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 799: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.
not to mention the 32 america has vetoed
Donald Neff in the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs - On Sept. 10, 1972, the United States employed its veto in the UN Security Council for only the second time in history—to shield Israel. That veto, as it turned out, signalled the start of a cynical policy to use the U.S. veto repeatedly to shield Israel from international criticism, censure and sanctions. Washington used its veto 32 times to shield Israel from critical draft United Nations Security Council resolutions between 1972 and 1997. This constituted nearly half of the total U.S. vetoes cast since the founding of the U.N.
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i dont understand why america shields israel even the UK govt is against that.
ahhh.. would it be the power of the jewish lobby in US politics? hmmffff
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quote: Israel carrying out 1 of its largest and bloodiest operations in Gaza since 1967
GOOD. I'm glad they've got the balls to stand up and kill some motherfuckers until shit stops over there. I'm actually hoping they'll drop the bomb, fuck it. I'm threw trying to be fair, these people need to be exterminated like cockroaches.
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why? the truth is palestinians have lost way move lives lost thousands of homes about 90% percent of their land too
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why? the truth is palestinians have lost way move lives lost thousands of homes about 90% percent of their land too
Suggestion: don't try to seriously argue about politics with nazis.
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lol nazis....then i guess im one too cause i got something to say.
im also glad about what israel is doing. I mean they are the biggest target of suicide bombers in the whole world. Israel is really doing alot to protect their citizens. America is not really good at fighting the old terrorism thing....all we do is invade iraq.
israel needs to keep fighting terrorism. because if they stop then it gives a reason for terrorists to contiue.
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israel needs to keep fighting terrorism. because if they stop then it gives a reason for terrorists to contiue.
1. that doesnt make any sense. stop killing their ppl, a reason for terrorists to continue? weird logic.
2. israel doesnt fight terrorism, they just steal land of other ppl by killing them and think it's justified because some morons praised it the holy god-given land a few thousands years ago and wrote that on a paper. imagine soldiers with tanks and machine guns coming to your street because they say god gave the land to them and you should either leave or die.
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lol nazis....then i guess im one too cause i got something to say.
im also glad about what israel is doing. I mean they are the biggest target of suicide bombers in the whole world. Israel is really doing alot to protect their citizens. America is not really good at fighting the old terrorism thing....all we do is invade iraq.
israel needs to keep fighting terrorism. because if they stop then it gives a reason for terrorists to contiue.
if you go back to about the 1920s jews muslims and christians all lived in palestine at peace with each other, since then jews have taken over and oppressed the christains and muslims in palestine stole their land and because they don't have a real army to stop them its justified? oh yea and those who resist are terrorists so palestinians must have baught it all apon themselves how foolish i was to think its israels fault.
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update on the situation israel continues opperation even after the UN security council condemmed Israel and urged them to respect international law
Israel intensifies Gaza offensive
Israeli forces have pushed deeper into southern Gaza, a day after the United Nations condemned Israel for killing at least eight Palestinian protesters.
Helicopter gunships fired missiles as troops moved into two areas on the south side of the town of Rafah.
So far on Thursday, seven Palestinians have been reported killed by Israeli forces in Rafah refugee camp.
Defying a rare rebuke from Washington, Israel vowed to continue its operations against militants and arms smugglers.
About 40 Palestinians have died since Tuesday when Israel launched one of its biggest operations in Gaza in decades.
The longer the IDF remain in this area, the greater the number of mistakes and mishaps will be...
Editorial in Yediot Aharonot
Thirteen Israeli soldiers have been killed by Palestinian militants since the offensive began.
The latest deaths occurred when three Palestinian militants died after being hit by an Israeli missile, while another two were killed by tank fire.
Two other Palestinians were shot dead in Rafah and the Tel Sultan neighbourhood of Rafah refugee camp.
Early on Thursday, Israeli forces moved into two southern districts of Rafah, trading fire with gunmen.
A BBC correspondent in Rafah says tank shelling and machine gun fire can be heard across the town.
Killings condemned
On Wednesday, the UN Security Council adopted a resolution condemning Israel's killing of civilians in the Gaza Strip.
[The UN is] gravely concerned by the recent demolition of homes committed by Israel, the occupying power, in the Rafah refugee camp
UN Security Council resolution
Palestinian sources said at least eight Palestinians died when an Israeli tank opened fire on demonstrators protesting against the demolition of homes in Rafah.
Israel put the death toll at seven.
The Security Council resolution, which was adopted by 14 votes to 0, also urged Israel not to demolish homes in violation of international law.
The US, which usually vetoes anti-Israeli resolutions, abstained from the vote.
The White House issued a statement, saying it did not believe Israel's actions in Gaza served "the purposes of peace and security".
US Secretary of State Colin Powell reinforced the message, saying: "I believe the activities of the Israeli Defence Forces in Gaza in recent days have caused a problem and have worsened the situation, and I think made it more difficult for us to move forward and get back into the peace process."
UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and the European Union have also condemned Israel's actions.
The UN says recent house demolitions in Rafah by the Israeli army have left about 1,600 residents homeless.
The army says its operations are designed to destroy tunnels used to smuggle weapons under the border with Egypt.
Israel 'sorry'
Israeli army chief Lt Gen Moshe Yaalon apologised for the civilian deaths, but said troops did not deliberately fire on marchers.
"No commander or soldier gave an order or got an order or deliberately aimed at civilians and we're sorry that innocent civilians got hit, we don't aim at Palestinian civilians."
Wednesday's killings happened as about 3,000 demonstrators marched down Rafah's main street towards Israeli lines in the Tel Sultan area.
The Israeli army said one of its helicopters fired a warning missile at open ground to hold back the crowd after several gunmen were spotted among the marchers.
When the crowd continued to advance, the army said, four tank shells were fired at an abandoned building which obstructed Israeli soldiers' view of protesters who were passing behind it.
At least one of the shells tore through the building and hit the crowd, it added.
Palestinian sources say that there were no gunmen among the crowd and that the demonstration was peaceful. Many of the injured and some of the dead were school-aged children.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/3731371.stm
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so that one post is saying that the UN doesn't work? .......funny, never would have thought that
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if u want to know why the UN is ineffective against Israel you only have to look at america's policy in regards to Israel!!
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lol nazis....then i guess im one too cause i got something to say.
im also glad about what israel is doing. I mean they are the biggest target of suicide bombers in the whole world. Israel is really doing alot to protect their citizens. America is not really good at fighting the old terrorism thing....all we do is invade iraq.
israel needs to keep fighting terrorism. because if they stop then it gives a reason for terrorists to contiue.
You stupid ape. This isnt an act of an extreme group targeting a legitimate state. This isnt a case of domestic violence. ISRAEL OCCUPIES PALESTINIAN LAND. AS LONG AS SAID LAND IS OCCUPIED,THERE WILL BE A VIOLENT RESPONSE. How do u just ignore the claims of the Palestinians. "They have a right to protect their citizens." These citizens have no business being in this land, this country has no business being in existence.
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These citizens have no business being in this land, this country has no business being in existence.
Please tell me I read this wrong...
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lol nazis....then i guess im one too cause i got something to say.
im also glad about what israel is doing. I mean they are the biggest target of suicide bombers in the whole world. Israel is really doing alot to protect their citizens. America is not really good at fighting the old terrorism thing....all we do is invade iraq.
israel needs to keep fighting terrorism. because if they stop then it gives a reason for terrorists to contiue.
You stupid ape. This isnt an act of an extreme group targeting a legitimate state. This isnt a case of domestic violence. ISRAEL OCCUPIES PALESTINIAN LAND. AS LONG AS SAID LAND IS OCCUPIED,THERE WILL BE A VIOLENT RESPONSE. How do u just ignore the claims of the Palestinians. "They have a right to protect their citizens." These citizens have no business being in this land, this country has no business being in existence.
doesn't it?....but I bet a terroristic state with crooked leadership that manipulates with the lives of it's own citizents to fill up it's pockets has business being in existance....Ive seen lots of bullshit being said in this thread to tell u the truth Im really tired of it....Israel's notorious prime minister Ariel Sharon which is considered to be a known blood spiller by many of yall or the anti-Israeli european public opinion, was even trying to pull his seperation plan if yall recall, something our Likud party(to which he belongs) did not aprove, oh well, Im not sure he wasn't kinda contredicting his idealogy with this plan, but that's just to show u where the motivations to peace r coming from....just to remind u Ehud Barak was offering them 97% of the demand in camp david with Arafat declining....just think for a second , rise beyond the public opinion, I don't really believe u can, too bad, everything Israel does is to protect it's citicents in no way can it be blamed for inapropriate reaction...in no way can Israel's pre-emptive operations and get-backz be considered as Imoral, Palestinians have the whole arab world to exist in, problem is it would look much worst for them after their own so called nation will start to execute them just like King Husein back in the day....the Arab world can't stand'em, one of the main reasons for it's support of the Palestinians is basicly the lack of will to deal with them on their own land....so they stay here under this self proclaimed resolution of "this was our land and they occupied it....bla bla..." a bunch of mobile tribes with ownings and lands that used to tusle one another untill a common enemy united them in a single interest to get the Jews out of here....it's bullshit...Plus where did u see a country returning territory taken over during a war in the name of peace like Israel has been doing throughout it's existance.....the world is on too much bullshit...
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thats bullshit your trying to argue they don't deserve the land so thats why ur taking it,even tho its theres by rights, and especially with this wall ur biulding to make sure palestinians can't even go anywhere near what ust to be theirs. ur so brainwashed by your extreme right wing government, you think they are acting in good when really they are just pure evil. and u seem to keep bringing up the one time Ehud Barak offering a peace deal ok it fell thru but look at the present deal which wasn't even negotiated with the palestinians to give back hardly any land but even worse still ur government rejected cos it on the grounds that it was too generous. you country pays no respect to international law or the UN and by all rights should be isolated from the international community at the very least till it gets it act together.
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ur so brainwashed by your extreme right wing government, you think they are acting in good when really they are just pure evil.
Please don't talk about "Brainwashing" and "Pure Evil" donny. You don't even know the half.
He's the one who's brainwashed, but you post up Data from the palestinian ministry of forgien affiars?
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yes the source may be biased but then what isn't, plus they quote stuff from other websites rather than their own
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situation update after 3 days israel left 1600 palestinians homeless and 40 dead including a 3 year old girl shot to death, they also destroyed gazaa's only zoo its animals either dead or escaped
I think that the destruction is probably even worse than I've seen ... and is indeed completely, completely unacceptable," Peter Hansen, head of the UN Relief and Works Agency, which aids Palestinian refugees
The BBC's Gaza correspondent, Alan Johnston, says the Israeli troops occupied the north side of the Brazil neighbourhood for just one day, but what they did during that time will be remembered for many years.
A large olive orchard has been destroyed; there is not a tree left standing, and every street around it has been churned up by the tanks, our correspondent says.
Rafah's mortuary overflowed and many of the dead have had to be stored in freezers in different parts of town.
heres a good quote which pretty much sums everything up
At a time when Israeli army bulldozers are demolishing hundreds of houses in Rafah camp and making thousands of people homeless... George Bush closes his eyes to this human disaster to woo the Jewish votes saying: "Israel has the right to defend itself". But Israel is defending its occupation, not itself.
oh yea and the tanks are now back in to carry on their mission of good in gazaa
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thats bullshit your trying to argue they don't deserve the land so thats why ur taking it,even tho its theres by rights, and especially with this wall ur biulding to make sure palestinians can't even go anywhere near what ust to be theirs. ur so brainwashed by your extreme right wing government, you think they are acting in good when really they are just pure evil. and u seem to keep bringing up the one time Ehud Barak offering a peace deal ok it fell thru but look at the present deal which wasn't even negotiated with the palestinians to give back hardly any land but even worse still ur government rejected cos it on the grounds that it was too generous. you country pays no respect to international law or the UN and by all rights should be isolated from the international community at the very least till it gets it act together.
oh yea sure, international law, I guess the international law does not include paragraphs about exploding buses and killing incocent people, it uses the term incocents only to describe a "crazed mass of killers" that throw hate demonstrations, why should Israel give up any land now, after they fucked up Oslo, after they fucked up Camp David, why should we give and give while Israeli Cevillians are being slautered, Im the brainwashed one? sure man, Im the brainwashed one, while those Palestinian Kids that undergo psychotropic brainwashing methods throughout their school years to later become suicide bombers in schools founded by money that could've been used to build proper infrastructure is just common education(money that by the way actually came for the most part from europe), sure that's not brainwashing, the training camps for underaged killers isn't something the international law would like to adress?-
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answer me these questions
1)who has lost more lives during this conflict
2)who has lost more land or their homes destroyed
3)what country has had the most disruptions to their normal life?
and another thing u talk about terrorists who don't act on orders from governemnt when the Israeli army will happily shoot at unarmed toddlers who pose no threat and fire tank shells into crowds of people whilst you buldozer their homes to the ground leaving 1600 people homeless in just 3 days and u wonder why they hate you guys. there would have never of been this problem if israel never sought to increase in size by invading all its neighbours, the jews quickly forgot how the nazi's treated them and have no problem in doing similar stuff to other people. and to think i have relatives who thaught and died to save the jews, we even gave you ur own country although i don't we shud have (times and attitudes have changed it wouldnt happen the way it did now), but jews are just greedy muthafuckaz there is no other way to look at it.
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oh yea sure, international law, I guess the international law does not include paragraphs about exploding buses and killing incocent people
THIS IS A COMMON METHOD OF CHANGING THE SUBJECT. NO NO, FORGET THE FACT THAT WE BASICALLY HAVE COLLECTIVELY SHIT ON THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, NO NO, REMEMBER THE BLOWN UP BUS IN EAST JERUSALEM. (WHERE WE SHOULDNT BE IN THE 1ST PLACE ::))
it uses the term incocents only to describe a "crazed mass of killers" that throw hate demonstrations, why should Israel give up any land now
BECAUSE THIS ISNT YOUR LAND!!???!!
, after they fucked up Oslo,
THE FACT THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, NOT ONLY WERE THE ISRAELIS NOT SERIOUS ABOUT LEAVING THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, BUT WERE CONTINUING TO EXPAND SETTLEMENTS KILLED ANY CHANCE OF A LASTING PEACE. HOW THE FUCK DO YOU EXPECT TO MOVE AGAINST HAMAS, WHEN THE PALESTINIANS ARE STARING DOWN THE BARREL OF AN UZI?
after they fucked up Camp David,
NO, REFUSING TO NEGOTIATE THE RIGHT OF RETURN AND OFFERING A FRAGMENTED, PUZZLE PIECE SEMI STATE CUT UP BY ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS AND ROADS, WITH A FOREIGN POLICY CONTROLLED BY ISRAEL IS WHAT FUCKED UP CAMP DAVID.
why should we give and give while Israeli Cevillians are being slautered, Im the brainwashed one?
YES. YOU ARE. YOU LOOK AT A PALESTINIAN LIKE STROM THURMOND LOOKED AT BLACKS IN THE 40'S. YOU DESPISE THE GOYIM AND THINK HIS LIFE IRRELEVENT AND WITHOUT WORTH. THATS WHY THE CITIZENS OF THE "JEWISH STATE" HAVE COLLECTIVELY ACCEPTED THE SUBJAGATION OF THE PALESTINIANS WITHOUT A DOUBT. THEY MEAN NOTHING TO YOU.
sure man, Im the brainwashed one, while those Palestinian Kids that undergo psychotropic brainwashing methods throughout their school years to later become suicide bombers
LET ME ASK U A QUESTION. DO U HONESTLY BELIEVE THE FACT THAT YOU OCCUPY PALESTINIAN LAND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PALESTINIAN TEEN HATING U?????
in schools founded by money that could've been used to build proper infrastructure is just common education(money that by the way actually came for the most part from europe), sure that's not brainwashing, the training camps for underaged killers isn't something the international law would like to adress?-
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to answer your questions first:
1. sure, if u count the suicide bombers, plus the active terrorists that are being assasinated by Israel, there is no need to speculate....I'll ask u a diff question , which side has lost more inocent lives(by that I don't mean those masses of crazed radicals ready to lynch any jew in the radius of a mile), I mean people that don't have any connection to millitarry forces at the moment of death.
2.Israelis don't get their homes destroyed thank god, terrorists on the other hand do, as for the Land, Israel gave up the biggest percentage of it's territory for the sake of peace, like no other country has ever done.
3. Israel of course, the Palestinian authority is far from having a stable normal life even without it's conflict with Israel my arguments about it's crooked leadership and the general opinion of the arab world as for the Palestinians are just the smallest example, not to mention the fact the authority is far from being a country in any standarts....
now let me ask u and u too Tech, a number of things:
1. Tech u spoke about changing the subject, how would u call what u do everytime I mention the Camp David isue, fact is Israel was willing to fullfill 97% of the demand, formally, by signing a paper that would force this plan to come to place,or else....bla bla "Israel was never serious....." how tha fuck can u massure that?....that's how things are done politiclly -->they sign papers....yea of course if u identify that much with the palestinians your respect for these type of agreements must be minimal(see Oslo).
2.U claim there is a justification for the Palestinians fucking up Oslo by saying "this is not Israel's Land" if they thought so, why the hell did they agree to it in the first place, don't u think there is a contrediction?- fact is it's not a contrediction, they planed it all the way through, we agree to this-get worldwide recognition- get support money- get weapons and than when they think everything is cool and least expect it- we find some lame excuse and atack them.
3.Controling their foreign affairs?....retroactivelly could be a very good idea, not only to control their foreign affairs, but also to formally restrict them, episodes like Karin A is just one of many examples to why such restrictions should've been put, A Palestinian State
that would not like to co exist in total trust with it's closest neighbour state has deffenatlly something to hide....and considering the fact the Palestinian authority did not recognize the existance of a Jewish State up untill not so long ago(->Oslo...which failed) such state could threat our existance.
4. u think that by using the word Goyim u suddenlly make a great amount of sence in showing Im brainwashed, u're deeply mistaken....Israel was never in a hold of rasial hate towards Palestinians cause of the simple fact of them being Palestinians, this sounds more like what those brainwashed Palestinian teens study in their schools "itbah el yahud" typa shit, and by the way u ended your post Don Rizzle by saying(and I quote) " jews are just greedy muthafuckaz there is no other way to look at it. " it makes me think u feat this profile much more than myself or may be even Tech as well.
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Posted by: I TO DA GEEZY Posted on: Yesterday at 06:24:09pm
to answer your questions first:
1. sure, if u count the suicide bombers, plus the active terrorists that are being assasinated by Israel, there is no need to speculate....I'll ask u a diff question , which side has lost more inocent lives(by that I don't mean those masses of crazed radicals ready to lynch any jew in the radius of a mile), I mean people that don't have any connection to millitarry forces at the moment of death.
2.Israelis don't get their homes destroyed thank god, terrorists on the other hand do, as for the Land, Israel gave up the biggest percentage of it's territory for the sake of peace, like no other country has ever done.
3. Israel of course, the Palestinian authority is far from having a stable normal life even without it's conflict with Israel my arguments about it's crooked leadership and the general opinion of the arab world as for the Palestinians are just the smallest example, not to mention the fact the authority is far from being a country in any standarts....
1 u seem to think all of palestine are terrorists
2 talk about giving up land? we gave up our whole fucking empire whilst others thaught to keep theirs*Cough*france*cough*, we gave up our rule over half the world which ironically included palestine which is why u have it now.
3 bullshit how can palestinians possibly live a normal life, the way israel bullys and restricts them
ur questions
1 don't know too much about past agreements i'll leave that to u and tech
2 do u think the palestinians really wanted to fuck up the peace process and stay opressed by the israel? i don't think so.
3 israel can't even handle their own foreign affairs within international law why should they be put incharge of another country's? and you wonder why they don't want to co-exist? it baffles me that you bring that up after israel has stolen land from palestine and used force to keep it in their possession, would you want to co exist with them if the tables were turned? but u can see that so u built a wall to shut them out, but heres the genious part cos israel built it on palestinian land further extending extending israel's borders. anopther thing u said they didn't even recognise israel as state, what do u expect cos israel was taken from by force in the first place.
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1.who said all Palestinians are terrorists?....u asked which side has suffered more losses and I basiclly was trying to explain why mathematiclly more Palestinians may've died through this cinflict, a very high percentage of Palestinians has been or still is ingaged in contacts with millitant terroristic organizations and even the Authority as an institution kept supporting financially terroristic organizations while formally opossing their dids in the eyes of the world, people like that and support of terrorism is Israel's worst enemy therefore it will do everything with in it's power to stop it, many people seem to ignore it, btw, if we're counting Palestinian losses how come u ain't talkin' bout Jordan and Hussein massacare back in the day.
2. Of course, I wrote a number of Paragraphs on this in my previous replies, it's not that I think so, I know so, and they know so, Arafat knowes so, Sharon knowes so, and now even our left wingers that were in support of the Oslo agreement be4, know so, it's a known fact, drawn from the result, one would wonder as for the reasons that led the Palestinians(Arafat) not to except 97% of their Original demand, but that is obvious and almost too simple, the Palestinian leadership lead by Arafat never was trying to establish peace with Israel. Oslo was a very well thought diversion that leaning on the fact a left wing party was ellected (in the overlly too democratic Israel, as they thought) brought the Palestinian corrupt leadership exactlly what it needed, a formal International agenda,( describing the Palestinians as long opressed people that have been hostile towards their so called occupiers which now wish to make peace,) which lead them to gaining financial support, weapons from Israel Itself to hold it's ground as an authority trying to exist in it's own right,
the same weapons that would later be used against Israelis and against Israel's national securrity, support money that instead of providing a proper infrastructure disapeared in questionable bank acounts abroad with part of it being also transported to millitant groups in the authority, Oslo is Israel's greatest mistake that now cost's the lives of many Israelis, they achieved exactlly what they always wanted--->Instabillity, only now with higher recourses and worldwide support....it's almost too tragic to comprehand.
And one more thing, there would be no reason in demonstration of millitarry power on Israel's behalf if there was no threat on it's security,consequetly such threat exists.
3. The only problem Israel has with International law regards the Conflict with the Palestinian authority, so this arguement is pointless, I was implying that Israel should've been informed by the Palestinian authority(in a possible peace senario) on it's agreements and actions that were co-operated with Israel's Enemies like former Iraq, Iran, Lebanon and Syria....Just like countries that are not entirelly democratic or have diffrences in certain isues debate with the rest of the world on certain isues that may have something to do with national security of other countries...it's one of the main purposes of UN....
Israel did not use force to keep any Land in it's pocesion, in times that are not defined as territorial war times(if u were talking bout war times with the arab world your theory is hallow ), Israel uses force only for the cause of national securrity and to protect it's citizents.
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The only problem Israel has with International law regards the Conflict with the Palestinian authority, so this arguement is pointless
Israel breaks more international laws than any other country
it's one of the main purposes of UN....
lovely to see u braught up the UN, israel is very good at ignoring the UN or using america to avoid UN critism.
Israel did not use force to keep any Land in it's pocesion, in times that are not defined as territorial war times(if u were talking bout war times with the arab world your theory is hallow ), Israel uses force only for the cause of national securrity and to protect it's citizents.
and that wouldn't have anythiong to do with alot of them being in palestine would it?
how about this? israel gives back all land and leaves palestine alone, no need to supply them with guns or money, just pull out. build a wall inside israel if u still want to keep ur boarders secure. why would that be such a problem? that would bring peace.
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The only problem Israel has with International law regards the Conflict with the Palestinian authority, so this arguement is pointless
Israel breaks more international laws than any other country
it's one of the main purposes of UN....
lovely to see u braught up the UN, israel is very good at ignoring the UN or using america to avoid UN critism.
Israel did not use force to keep any Land in it's pocesion, in times that are not defined as territorial war times(if u were talking bout war times with the arab world your theory is hallow ), Israel uses force only for the cause of national securrity and to protect it's citizents.
and that wouldn't have anythiong to do with alot of them being in palestine would it?
how about this? israel gives back all land and leaves palestine alone, no need to supply them with guns or money, just pull out. build a wall inside israel if u still want to keep ur boarders secure. why would that be such a problem? that would bring peace.
first of all, the international laws Israel has problem with concern only the authority, so saying it breaks more internaitonal laws than any other country in the world is absurd.
Those so called laws are filled with double standarts and aply to Israel while don't aply to other countries, these same exact laws could convict the USA itself in samilliar alligations with much stronger arguements with less controversies to argue them, Israel after all does have a geographical threat, it's not like we have to fly all the way past the Atlantic to bomb some hostile country, the war takes place right here from day to day...but no one would ever dare to threat USA with sanctions...
I brought the UN to show how countries with certain diffrences still mannage to inter-act for the sake of world piece.Not to note how good the decisions of the UN are.
funny how the Palestinians like to bring up the so called settlers, did u know that in the original Palestinian declaration they did not even state them?, again Oslo is what based the settlers as a part of their demand, Just to have another barrier on the way to peace, Imagine Israel saying "We don't want no peace for as long as we have Palestinians on our territory" and as if these settlers would bother them, settlers without army protection would not have any effect on them, it's not like they'd have to financially support these people, Israel takes care of this, those are people who believe (as part of their faith) in the full Eretz Israel principle, they believe Israel belongs to Jews by the boarders the Tora has noted, like God noted in the Tora, so basiclly the only reason the Palestinians don't want any settlers there is cause they keep the armed forces there- and why do they keep the army there?-that's simple, cause Israeli sitizents are threatened by terroristic atacks....Imagine Israel starting to kill Israeli Arabs to make them move back to the Palestinian authority....
Lol ....if I was the decision maker on this I would agree to your offer just to show u how wrong u are and how Israel would end as a result.What u don't get is that Israel is not the one who needs to pull out, we wouldn't be there if we weren't threatened.
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do you not understand they are illegal settlement thats why they don't want them there, it was never your land to settle on! the whole world agrees with that, they also think israel should give them up. well maybe with the exception of the bush administration but they have no idea how to broker peace
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do you not understand they are illegal settlement thats why they don't want them there, it was never your land to settle on! the whole world agrees with that, they also think israel should give them up. well maybe with the exception of the bush administration but they have no idea how to broker peace
Illegal?....u think the Palestinian millitants give 2 shits bout legal or Illegal, they use it as a poor excuse for their radical actions, It was never our Land?- what do u mean by never....that is Historical Jewish Land, read the bible, their just as Illegal than as the Israeli Arabs , Israeli Citizents that amongst them u can find lots of co-operation with Millitants in the authority even tho' they are considered Israeli Citizents, and that is Legal right?!....why should the Settlements be removed but the Palestinians that "Occupy" Israeli Land shouldn't than?...what about all the villages...again double standart+loughable excuses for killing inocent people.
p.s The Whole world could agree on whatever it likes, bunch of political hoe's that seek for diplomatic achievements on the backs of inocent people who die on an every day basis, fuck that BULLSHIT, the whole world can take their anti-Jewish Opinions put'em on a list and stick it up their asses....