West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: infinite59 on June 07, 2004, 07:12:42 AM
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If your one of the top 1% money earners in America, and you control most of what goes on in the government and media, then you would love Reagan. He was a great actor, and a great tool for the wealthiest class of people.
Among his accomplishments:
-Vetoing a bill that would of punished the white South African government with sanctions for it's practice of aparthied against the majority black.
-Made the rich richer, and the poor poorer, widening the gap and more deeply dividing America.
-Cutting welfare, after school programs, and assistance to the poor. When the poor and jobless responded angrily he biult more prisons for them.
-Turned the word "welfare" into a bad word. Made people believe that taxes were high because of welfare reciepients wanting handouts. Turning the middle class against the poor class. When infact, taxes are high because the largest chunk of that money is going to steadily increase the size of the military.
-Supporting minority rebel movements in Guatamala and other South American countries we had no business being in.
-The Berlin wall fell inspite of Ronald Reagan and not becuase of Ronald Reagan. The arms race of the cold war only retarded the situation.
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That's the worst he did in eight years? That's all you could come up with? That's pretty damn good.
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If your one of the top 1% money earners in America, and you control most of what goes on in the government and media, then you would love Reagan. He was a great actor, and a great tool for the wealthiest class of people.
Among his accomplishments:
-Vetoing a bill that would of punished the white South African government with sanctions for it's practice of aparthied against the majority black.
-Made the rich richer, and the poor poorer, widening the gap and more deeply dividing America.
-Cutting welfare, after school programs, and assistance to the poor. When the poor and jobless responded angrily he biult more prisons for them.
-Turned the word "welfare" into a bad word. Made people believe that taxes were high because of welfare reciepients wanting handouts. Turning the middle class against the poor class. When infact, taxes are high because the largest chunk of that money is going to steadily increase the size of the military.
-Supporting minority rebel movements in Guatamala and other South American countries we had no business being in.
-The Berlin wall fell inspite of Ronald Reagan and not becuase of Ronald Reagan. The arms race of the cold war only retarded the situation.
-Regan got us out of the cold war. It doesnt matter what way you say it. It was because of him
-Of course the rich get richer. Thats the way its always been, and that will never change.
-Guess what? Welfare is a bad word. Its for fucking lazy ass americans who'd rather take the governments money then to work for a living like everyone else. They drain the federal governments money so they can sit at home watching tv, and eating tv dinners. Handing out hundreds of millions of dollars in welfare each year, And you dont think this affects taxes??
-Regan HAD to build up the army. Before reagan, Carter didnt do anything military wise. The us military was very low on budget and rescources. ANY president would have built up the army in a time of Cold War. I dont fault him for any of that.
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Reagonomics crack affected all of Harlem look at that effect.
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-Guess what? Welfare is a bad word. Its for fucking lazy ass americans who'd rather take the governments money then to work for a living like everyone else. They drain the federal governments money so they can sit at home watching tv, and eating tv dinners. Handing out hundreds of millions of dollars in welfare each year, And you dont think this affects taxes??
In reality welfare accounts for a very small percentage of our taxes while paying for the US Military and it's operations in 100 countries around the world accounts for a huge chunk of our taxes.
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^Yup.
And U stress welfare is for lazy muthafucaz because they want to live off Government's money? LIVE? ahahaha....ain't no one gonna be livin off no pity welfare money, it was built for survival so we could have less people running around jacking shit just to stay alive....and U can't get on welfare THAT EASILY, there are rules, just like U can't live off welfare money forever....they help U out for a period of time when U hit rock bottom....it is a GOOD thing.
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-Guess what? Welfare is a bad word. Its for fucking lazy ass americans who'd rather take the governments money then to work for a living like everyone else. They drain the federal governments money so they can sit at home watching tv, and eating tv dinners. Handing out hundreds of millions of dollars in welfare each year, And you dont think this affects taxes??
In reality welfare accounts for a very small percentage of our taxes while paying for the US Military and it's operations in 100 countries around the world accounts for a huge chunk of our taxes.
Very, very true. One thing I didn't like about Reagan was his lack of compassion for those in poverty. He basically fucked my grandma right after my grandpa died by not awarding her his benefits eventhough he served the country in the armed forces. She was widowed and had 2 kids to raise and was on the verge of poverty because of that.
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once again...our government was made to govern and protect the people that live in the united states...that fact right there justifies the money spent on defense.
welfare is dirty and they should make people ashamed to be on it...i live in a city that has one of the highest percentage of welfare recipiants and when i go downtown what do i see? about 50 satillite dishes hanging from every apartment building.....89 kids running around in the front lawn...all sporting Nike's and wearing Sean John clothing...it makes me sick to know that my tax money is being spent to support bad spending habits instead of actually going to a place that can help these people
and then you complain about us supporting people directly to the south of us but and then complain about us not supporting people in africa....this alone makes you two of your statements contridictory....who are you to judge what we did is the right or wrong thing?
he built more prisons for the poor and jobless? last time i checked, neither of those are crimes....again another ignorant comment
and through out history, the richer do get richer and the poorer do get poorer so this isn't something reagan invented
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once again...our government was made to govern and protect the people that live in the united states...that fact right there justifies the money spent on defense.
welfare is dirty and they should make people ashamed to be on it...i live in a city that has one of the highest percentage of welfare recipiants and when i go downtown what do i see? about 50 satillite dishes hanging from every apartment building.....89 kids running around in the front lawn...all sporting Nike's and wearing Sean John clothing...it makes me sick to know that my tax money is being spent to support bad spending habits instead of actually going to a place that can help these people
and then you complain about us supporting people directly to the south of us but and then complain about us not supporting people in africa....this alone makes you two of your statements contridictory....who are you to judge what we did is the right or wrong thing?
he built more prisons for the poor and jobless? last time i checked, neither of those are crimes....again another ignorant comment
and through out history, the richer do get richer and the poorer do get poorer so this isn't something reagan invented
Stop your stereotyping, U dunno no one on welfare....oh yea, people on welfare get cable dishes and go buy their kids Sean John clothing....lmao
Who's complaining about Africa? stick to the subject, welfare is not a BLACK thing.
Reagan didn't invent none of that shit yur talkin about, but was a big supporter and did nothing to improve the system. R.I.P regardless.
PS: our government is there to protect? ok loll, but at this moment in time, who are they protecting us from going into middle east? If a terrorist act happens 2morrow, who are we to blame?
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infinite. posts like this are why people have no respect for you, and actually lead into the arena of contempt.
you disgust me, you are a worthless, bitter, finger pointing blamer who can't take responsibility for his own actions, and tries to make himself feel better by belittling those of others.
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I feel like starting a new topic:
Let's tell the truth about infinite
This guy is a fucking ignorant moron. Let us all take a look at his "accomplishments"
-He was once going to write a book about how Tupac was a Prophet from God.
-He is so ignorant and petty he lets POLITICS come before human compassion.
-He couldn't make it in the real world, so he converted to islam and blamed all his problems on non-muslims.
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once again...our government was made to govern and protect the people that live in the united states...that fact right there justifies the money spent on defense.
welfare is dirty and they should make people ashamed to be on it...i live in a city that has one of the highest percentage of welfare recipiants and when i go downtown what do i see? about 50 satillite dishes hanging from every apartment building.....89 kids running around in the front lawn...all sporting Nike's and wearing Sean John clothing...it makes me sick to know that my tax money is being spent to support bad spending habits instead of actually going to a place that can help these people
and then you complain about us supporting people directly to the south of us but and then complain about us not supporting people in africa....this alone makes you two of your statements contridictory....who are you to judge what we did is the right or wrong thing?
he built more prisons for the poor and jobless? last time i checked, neither of those are crimes....again another ignorant comment
and through out history, the richer do get richer and the poorer do get poorer so this isn't something reagan invented
Stop your stereotyping, U dunno no one on welfare....oh yea, people on welfare get cable dishes and go buy their kids Sean John clothing....lmao
Who's complaining about Africa? stick to the subject, welfare is not a BLACK thing.
Reagan didn't invent none of that shit yur talkin about, but was a big supporter and did nothing to improve the system. R.I.P regardless.
PS: our government is there to protect? ok loll, but at this moment in time, who are they protecting us from going into middle east? If a terrorist act happens 2morrow, who are we to blame?
you're right, i don't know anybody on welfare but i do know what i see....just like i don't know actors but i do enjoy watching movies...i can go downtown right now, drive through run down houses and tenement buildings and show you the hundreds of dishes on the house.... i can also take videos of the 2004 eclipses outside of these houses and let you listen to the systems and show you all the kits on these cars...and in addition to all that, i'll show you that they sport lakers jerseys, new sneakers and everything.....but of course your ignorant ass would just blame it on camera tricks
who's complaining about africa? grab the closest person to you that can read and point them in the direction of the beginning of this thread that will answer your question. also, where did you get that i said blacks were the problem? you should ask HOP for your 19 dollars back
and to answer your PS we blame the fucking terrorists....i don't like welfare recipiants...do you see me running downtown driving vans full of dynomite into their slums? no because i'm a smart individual not some barbaric ass monkey that believes if i kill others, that i will be blessed with virgins...
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Ibrahim I respect you but disagree with you here.
Firstly, Reagan got America out of the Cold War, and very quickly.
He improved America's moral like none other could.
And in my opinion, welfare should be taken away. Those out of work should rely on family, charity and religious groups while they find a job.
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^^ exactly.
And another thing. Ok, so yea, Welfare isnt a huge spending part of our governments budget. But its not the governments problem to give people paychecks every month. YES, the governments job IS to protect us. Otherwise why do we even have an army? I do agree that Welfare should be taken away. If you really need money go to your local mcdonalds and get a job. at least its work, instead of just draining our governments money.
lol and it is true what smerlus said. People will be on welfare or claim their "poor" yet there kids are walking around in ecko clothes, and air force ones. Some people need to put there spending priorities in different orders before they claim they are really poor. i know alot of people who make a decent living, but they have extreme spending habits, and debts.
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^^Agreed.
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people in england pay national insurance which is tax on a certain income bracket (between like 5 and 20 k or somink) what that money is then used for is to pay for things like a job seekers allounce if you become unemployed. if u have never worked your not entitled to that benefit i think its a very good system, it also has a limit on how long u can be on benefit. for the long term unemployed we provide training schemes and other opportunities and incitives to get back into work. i don't understand what the big problem with that is, personally i think its a very worth while system to have in place so if there worst does happen ur not totally up shit creek
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people in england pay national insurance which is tax on a certain income bracket (between like 5 and 20 k or somink) what that money is then used for is to pay for things like a job seekers allounce if you become unemployed. if u have never worked your not entitled to that benefit i think its a very good system, it also has a limit on how long u can be on benefit. for the long term unemployed we provide training schemes and other opportunities and incitives to get back into work. i don't understand what the big problem with that is, personally i think its a very worth while system to have in place so if there worst does happen ur not totally up shit creek
it doesn't work in the states because our unemployment program gives money for nothing...i was on it for 6 months after i got out of the military and the law says they can't make me take a job that i haven't worked before for the first 13 weeks and then last 13 weeks they can't make me take a job that pays less than 80% of my last job
where i live, it's impossible for them to find me a job in satillite communications or a job that pays $30,000 a year when i don't have anything besides navy certificates
then you got people like the kind that work for my mother...they get addicted to that free money, they work somewhere for 6 months....then they slack off so they can get fired and start collecting again... my mother settles this buy letting them work for 3 hours out of a day...and if they don't show up...she just doesn't pay them, she won't fire them though
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^^Agreed.
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he was a good actor according to my grandmama
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sounds like welfare needs reform not scrapping
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it needs stricter regulations...but then again, the government can't tell people what to spend their money on
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Yup.
And U stress welfare is for lazy muthafucaz because they want to live off Government's money? LIVE? ahahaha....ain't no one gonna be livin off no pity welfare money, it was built for survival so we could have less people running around jacking shit just to stay alive.
Yep.
And Ronald Reagen's response to this is to cut the poor off of welfare and if they commit crimes to survive then he just biulds more prisons and the prison system thrives at the taxpayers expense once again.
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so it's Reagans fault that these people have no morals and commit crimes rather than look for work?
yep you're certainly muslim...people are never responsible for their own actions unless they are rich...then they are responsible for everything wrong with the world
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infinite, let the americans mourn their leader, we could sit here all day exposing how little the reagans of the world gave a fuck about the smerluses or the englewoods, but they aint tryin to hear it.
no rip from me, but i wont say nothing. you get a pass from me today. go flames go.
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more comments from the muslim peanut gallery.. you are some bitches blaming people for your short commings
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Welfare does need reform..It needs stricter rules and regulations. I think there should be case workers to see what they are spending on. They should have investigators so they don't give it to people who are crackheads and herion addicts. Welfare should be for people with a disability and are unable to work physically. I also believe welfare should be for Single Mothers who have 4 kids and works 2 jobs and still can't feed her kids..............Here is a perfect true life example. My next door neighbor does not work. She collects and spends all her umemployment check on Crack. She has a 9 year old daughter. Instead of paying bills and buying food she basically smokes the money. They go to soup kitchens and food banks to eat. That shit makes me sick. These people should be left to ROT.
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If your one of the top 1% money earners in America, and you control most of what goes on in the government and media, then you would love Reagan. He was a great actor, and a great tool for the wealthiest class of people.
Among his accomplishments:
-Vetoing a bill that would of punished the white South African government with sanctions for it's practice of aparthied against the majority black.
-Made the rich richer, and the poor poorer, widening the gap and more deeply dividing America.
-Cutting welfare, after school programs, and assistance to the poor. When the poor and jobless responded angrily he biult more prisons for them.
-Turned the word "welfare" into a bad word. Made people believe that taxes were high because of welfare reciepients wanting handouts. Turning the middle class against the poor class. When infact, taxes are high because the largest chunk of that money is going to steadily increase the size of the military.
-Supporting minority rebel movements in Guatamala and other South American countries we had no business being in.
-The Berlin wall fell inspite of Ronald Reagan and not becuase of Ronald Reagan. The arms race of the cold war only retarded the situation.
I don't know why I am even responding to this post, because Ibrahim is only trying to get everyone riled up with his shock value posts. But I guess it cuts close to home for me, considering that my grandparents and father lived under the oppression of communism in Poland. They knew firsthand just how evil that system is, and that is why growing up I was taught by them what a great man Ronald Reagan was. People in Eastern Europe have so much love and gratitude towards him. The fact that president Reagan was able to help bring an end to the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain without firing a single shot makes him without a doubt one of the greatest presidents in American history.
As for everything you posted, it is complete BS. How come you always bash America for enforcing sanctions against Iraq, saying that they unfairly hurt Iraqi civilains. But then you go and bash Reagan for not having sanctions against South Africa. So are you for or against sanctions against evil governments, or do you just pick and choose in order to bash whoever is president? And regarding welfare, the welfare system back during the 1980's actually increased, not decreased, poverty. The system back then actually encouraged people to be poor and have more kids. We had poor people having baby after baby in order for their welfare checks to increase, regardless of the fact that they couldn't afford to take care of them. That is obviously not a system that is conducve to improving standards of life. Thankfully the Republicans took measures to reform welfare.
In conclusion, Ibrahim is a moron.
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infinite, let the americans mourn their leader, we could sit here all day exposing how little the reagans of the world gave a fuck about the smerluses or the englewoods, but they aint tryin to hear it.
You should be mourning him considering he backed the Afghans against the Soviet invasion.
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infinite, let the americans mourn their leader, we could sit here all day exposing how little the reagans of the world gave a fuck about the smerluses or the englewoods, but they aint tryin to hear it.
(http://www.wutangcorp.com/forum/images/smiles/loser.gif)
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more comments from the muslim peanut gallery.. you are some bitches blaming people for your short commings
What about a catholic commenting.
Jay-Z commented once on being a product of Reagonomics. Lets face it, under Reagon, the United States trend of closing the gap between rich and poor started closing. Before Reagon, since World War II, the United States was in a stage were poor was starting to gain money, and become middle class. The whole rich always get richer argument, was being crushed by the United States, which is one reason we were a great nations, we were breaking norms. Anyways, Reagon, his plan was to give the rich tax cuts, because if the rich have more money, they'd spend it on their companies. Well this did not hold true, but both middle and higher classes got tax cuts, so both classes thrived, BUT, the once surging working class took a huge hit, and this started the trend, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer. Now of course you did have our crack heads, but you also had people like my dad, who worked his whole life, is a Vietnam Vet, and he had his vet benefits taken away by Ronald Reagon, for the sake of higher class tax cuts, Reagon took away Veterans rights, and no one argueed because Reagon was popular, and people didn't like Vietnam vets anyways. So my dad had no more Veterans benefits, which is really starting to cost him now that his older, and he had lost his job because he got divorced, and he had to raise my sister and me by himself. Welfare was not that much, so he took welfare, and still worked jobs along the way, and never had enough money. Reagon wanted his trickled down economy to work, after all, most economicalist believed the plan would work. If you remember when Bill Clinton took over, he redid the tax bracket so that rich once again get higher tax rates than working class. under Reagon, the rich got taxed like 10% well middle 20%, and working class 30%, or close to those numbers. I had exact numbers, but I am too lazy to go find them. Anyways, for his work, Reagon spend his last 10 years not remembering his name, not knowing where the bathroom was, and not remembering he was president. All I can say was, it couldn't have happen to a better man.
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on that 'gap' thing.. if you vote for convservatives that's what'll happen.. its them same with em in this country even worse.. in america i dont see any difference between your parties in that respect.. anything slightly 'left' is accused of being communist... doh!
in my eye, convservatism is for the blue bloods and the rich.. because they know they'll keep their wealth.
it keeps the poor down by favouring the rich... their view is.. if you cant afford something. tough.
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on that 'gap' thing.. if you vote for convservatives that's what'll happen.. its them same with em in this country even worse.. in america i dont see any difference between your parties in that respect.. anything slightly 'left' is accused of being communist... doh!
in my eye, convservatism is for the blue bloods and the rich.. because they know they'll keep their wealth.
it keeps the poor down by favouring the rich... their view is.. if you cant afford something. tough.
The Democrats are just as much giulty for the gap between the rich and the poor. It was actually the Kennedy and Carter admininistrations that set that inevitable phenomenon into motion. The same money that funds the Democrats, funds the Republicans. Either way your are voting for the big corporations and expansion of the military and prison business at the expense of the taxpayers.
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on that 'gap' thing.. if you vote for convservatives that's what'll happen.. its them same with em in this country even worse.. in america i dont see any difference between your parties in that respect.. anything slightly 'left' is accused of being communist... doh!
in my eye, convservatism is for the blue bloods and the rich.. because they know they'll keep their wealth.
it keeps the poor down by favouring the rich... their view is.. if you cant afford something. tough.
IMO Wealth creation doesn't create poverty.
Just a question, Have you ever read any Ayn Rand?
Atlas Shrugged is the bomb, but The Fountainhead is my personal favorite. If not, you should check it out. Damn good books with nice messages.
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well i guess i agree that wealth creation doesn't create poverty BUT a system where the poor are basically systematically kept down by the costs the system occurs, be they health, education or anything else IS a system that perpetuates poverty in my view.
on that 'gap' thing.. if you vote for convservatives that's what'll happen.. its them same with em in this country even worse.. in america i dont see any difference between your parties in that respect.. anything slightly 'left' is accused of being communist... doh!
in my eye, convservatism is for the blue bloods and the rich.. because they know they'll keep their wealth.
it keeps the poor down by favouring the rich... their view is.. if you cant afford something. tough.
The Democrats are just as much giulty for the gap between the rich and the poor. It was actually the Kennedy and Carter admininistrations that set that inevitable phenomenon into motion. The same money that funds the Democrats, funds the Republicans. Either way your are voting for the big corporations and expansion of the military and prison business at the expense of the taxpayers.
if you had read properly i did vaguely suggest that there is no real 'left' in america afaik. theres right, and righter.. lol
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Ok i dont the exact % of your salary that goes to taxes. Since im bad at math plz give me some leeway. im going to make up numbers for my post. lol i can only do math with 10's numbers
Fake Situation
Wealthy man makes $1,000,000 a year.
Poor man makes $10,000 a year.
10% goes to taxes. So Rich man pays $100,000 in taxes. Poor man pays 1,000.
Lets say Bush did ANOTHER tax cut that gave back 5%. The rich man will get i dunno....50,000? and the poor man gets $500.
Ok thats not realistic, but the fact remains. OF course rich people are going to get rich off of tax cuts. THEY PUT MORE MONEY INTO TAXES. they cant give poor people more money in tax cuts, because then its money they never had. Which then it should be called welfare.
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yes thats obvious.. there are major flaws.
someone earning 1000,000 is likely to pay 40% tax, not 10%. they still have a large amount of wealth.
its called tax brackets.
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fuck reagan
Reagan's legacy:
On AIDS:
"When Rock Hudson, a friend and colleague of the Reagan’s, was
diagnosed and died in 1985 (one of the 20,740 cases reported that
year), Reagan still did not speak out. When family friend William F.
Buckley, in a March 18, 1986 New York Times article, called for
mandatory testing of HIV and said that HIV+ gay men should have this
information forcibly tattooed on their buttocks (and IV drug users
on their arms), Reagan said nothing. In 1986 (after five years of
complete silence) when Surgeon General C. Everett Koop released a
report calling for AIDS education in schools, Bennett and Bauer did
everything possible to undercut and prevent funding for Koop’s
too-little too-late initiative. By the end of 1986, 37,061 AIDS
cases had been reported; 16,301 people had died.
The most memorable Reagan AIDS moment was at the 1986 centenary
rededication of the Statue of Liberty. The Reagan’s were there
sitting next to the French Prime Minister and his wife, Francois and
Danielle Mitterrand. Bob Hope was on stage entertaining the all-star
audience. In the middle of a series of one-liners, Hope quipped, “I
just heard that the Statue of Liberty has AIDS, but she doesn’t know
if she got it from the mouth of the Hudson or the Staten Island
Fairy.” As the television camera panned the audience, the
Mitterrands looked appalled. The Reagans were laughing. By the end
of 1989, 115,786 women and men had been diagnosed with AIDS in the
United States—more then 70,000 of them had died. "
He funded Sadaam Husein and gave him the WMD's we're looking for today.
He funded Afghanistani "freedom fighters" in their fight against the Soviet Union. One of these "freedom fighters" was Osama Bin Laden. These "freedom fighters" eventually won and formed the Taliban.
Oh yeah, and for kicks he laid a wreath at Bittburg cemetary in Germany, at a shrine dedicated to the fucking SS!!!!!
-funded right-wing paramilitary groups who killed priests, nuns, and thousands of civilians in central america
-crushed the labor movement in the U.S.
-he had to be forcibly pushed to renounce Apartheid
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rampant STFU....dats not how it works.
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well....there is a good & bad to every issue....I'ma list some random facts, U be the judge.
Ronald Reagan was tha 1st president to win 49 of the 50 states in an election. That's real impressive right there.
Yea, he gave money to Afghans, but at that time, they were friends. And that's all till they figured out what a monster U.S was and how they will not help no one unless they were getting theirs. It's unfortunate that shit went down like that.
He wasn't THE reason but was a driving force for why Gorbachev decided to tear down the Berlin Wall and make the people free also. I can give U that.
Reagan sponsored the murders in Central/South America. This is historical fact. Don't even try to argue it.
No, he didn't have small town values. He was a good actor.
Reagans contra crew were terrorists.
He took out democratically elected presidents to place in US friendly dictators. Had great strategies that don't really go noticed, slaughtering families for intimidation purposes is terrorism. c'mon, the man did his dirt, he traded weopens with enemies, our hoods were filled wit cocaine as a payment for the weopens. The Reagan era wasn't a pretty time for the streets.
and no he is not 1 of the greats.
THE GREATS:
-George Washington
-Abraham Lincoln
-Franklin Roosevelt
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But it's still R.I.P.....because I have sympathy for the ones that loved him. I done lost too many people not to.
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But it's still R.I.P.....because I have sympathy for the ones that loved him. I done lost too many people not to.
props for that.. heart and compassion is what puts real people apart from the selfish and the weak bigots who let hate blind their view.. eh infinite?
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What about a catholic commenting.
Jay-Z commented once on being a product of Reagonomics. Lets face it, under Reagon, the United States trend of closing the gap between rich and poor started closing. Before Reagon, since World War II, the United States was in a stage were poor was starting to gain money, and become middle class. The whole rich always get richer argument, was being crushed by the United States, which is one reason we were a great nations, we were breaking norms. Anyways, Reagon, his plan was to give the rich tax cuts, because if the rich have more money, they'd spend it on their companies. Well this did not hold true, but both middle and higher classes got tax cuts, so both classes thrived, BUT, the once surging working class took a huge hit, and this started the trend, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer. Now of course you did have our crack heads, but you also had people like my dad, who worked his whole life, is a Vietnam Vet, and he had his vet benefits taken away by Ronald Reagon, for the sake of higher class tax cuts, Reagon took away Veterans rights, and no one argueed because Reagon was popular, and people didn't like Vietnam vets anyways. So my dad had no more Veterans benefits, which is really starting to cost him now that his older, and he had lost his job because he got divorced, and he had to raise my sister and me by himself. Welfare was not that much, so he took welfare, and still worked jobs along the way, and never had enough money. Reagon wanted his trickled down economy to work, after all, most economicalist believed the plan would work. If you remember when Bill Clinton took over, he redid the tax bracket so that rich once again get higher tax rates than working class. under Reagon, the rich got taxed like 10% well middle 20%, and working class 30%, or close to those numbers. I had exact numbers, but I am too lazy to go find them. Anyways, for his work, Reagon spend his last 10 years not remembering his name, not knowing where the bathroom was, and not remembering he was president. All I can say was, it couldn't have happen to a better man.
What about another Catholic commenting....
M Dogg you are full of shit as usual. I don't know much about gaps between rich and poor, but I do know that the US economy was in the dumps during the 1970's. The unemployment rate and inflation were skyrocketing, and oil prices were sky high. When Ronald Reagan came into office he changed all of that. The US economy rebounded in the 1980's. And a huge part of that was President Reagan's tax cuts.
Here is a newsflash for you: all the money that the government gets through taxes is actually your and my money. And the less money the government takes from us the better. And that is what President Reagan did, he let us keep more of our own money with TAX CUTS ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ALL PEOPLE. All that stuff you said about poor people paying tax rates of 30% and rich people paying tax cuts of 10% is just a lie. The US has an accelerated tax rate and rich people have always paid taxes at higher rates the more they earn. Everyone got tax cuts during the 1980's, including the wealthy and corporations. Businesses and corporations thrive when they have low tax rates, and that is how jobs are created. If you had your way, companies like Microsoft, Sun Miscrosystems, Cisco, etc that got started in the 1980's probably would never have existed because they would have been bankrupt before ever getting off the ground.
M Dogg why don't you just accept the fact that the US is a purely capitalist country and we are never going to change. If you don't like it, go live in one of those socialist countries like France or Sweden where they pay three times what we do in taxes and have unemployment rates twice as high as us. There is a reason why the US has the best economy in the world and it is our economic system.
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But it's still R.I.P.....because I have sympathy for the ones that loved him. I done lost too many people not to.
props for that.. heart and compassion is what puts real people apart from the selfish and the weak bigots who let hate blind their view.. eh infinite?
wow u really hate this guy
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Hey Im glad he gave us weapons, that doesnt mean he doesnt have muslim blood on his hands. You fuckin kids, i dont know why i respond to yall, for entertainment really. Home boy smiled for the cameras and did the right PR shyt and half of yall think hes your grandfather. You know nothing of the consequence of his policies. And I didnt even say anything and fuckin goofs like Smerlus says shit like im dissing him to make up for my shortcomings. That doesnt make sense, how does this statement apply to me. Do you just say random things to sound smart?
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Ibrahim I respect you but disagree with you here.
Firstly, Reagan got America out of the Cold War, and very quickly.
He improved America's moral like none other could.
And in my opinion, welfare should be taken away. Those out of work should rely on family, charity and religious groups while they find a job.
You're 100% right. Thank you for seeing through the smoke thrown up by the uneducated, who try to teach everybody that republicans hate poor people. That's not true.. .just as you said, we believe that charity is essential, and necessary in society to help out those less fortunate amongst us... but it's the responsibility of the church. Forced charity by taxing the citizens and giving the money to those that don't work is not a wise way to run a government.
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Lets look @ the world the Ibrahims and Jimmy Carters et al. would have us living in.
When Reagan took office, the Prime Rate on loans and credit was 21.5 percent. 21.5 percent, what is it now, 5 percent? 5 fucking percent! He cut the 21.5 in HALF by the time he left office. Now, that's only to help the rich, right? Bullshit. Who borrows fucking money? EVERY BODY borrows money.. especially those who don't have it. How hard is that to understand? How does that help the rich? Do people like Inf. not understand fucking percentage points? Go back to the third grade.
When Reagan took office, get this shit... an 85,000 dollar loan on a house... today, that wouldn't buy shit... but anyways, the mortgage payment on that loan, 85 grand, was fucking 1090 dollars a month. 1090 dollars a month for a half-ass house! By the time he left office, the mortgage payment on an 85,000 dollar loan was 750 bucks. Who does that help? The Rich? Yeah, but it helps the poor too. Any fool can see cheaper loans helps small businesses, helps anyone who buys a house, etc.
When Reagan entered office, inflation was rising at 13 percent a fucking year. Economists said it was impossible to increase the GDP, and actually reduce inflation... well, Reagan must be a magician, because that's exactly what the fuck he did. He expanded the economy by a fucking THIRD, 33%, and reduced inflation rates to a low of 3%. 3 fucking percent... they said it was impossible, but through classical economics, and supply-side economics as opposed to demand-side economics, Reagan accomplished just that.
@ the beginning of the 80's, we had the threat of Nuclear War hanging over our heads. Reagan freed half of europe, and ended the threat nearly single-handedly. I know you think you know better, Inf, but ask Margaret Thatcher who the fuck ended the cold war, and she'll tell you 1 man did it: Ronald Reagan.
Do a little more homework before you spout off such bullshit. Tech, you deserve a slap in the face for the condescinding way you speak of the President. You should be fortunate enough to live in this country, let alone run your mouth, you ignorant fuck.
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This is for M Dogg.
M Dogg, stop listening to what your parents are telling you, because they've been drinking again. You said the United States was making the poor have more money up until Reagan. You weren't fucking BORN then, don't give me that shit. In case you didn't know, and you obviously don't, the United States was in the middle of a huge fucking depression when Reagan was elected. It wasn't the rich people out of jobs, it was the fucking poor people. Gas was 3 and 4 bucks a gallon, if you could even buy it, becuase the stations were out of it. Jimmy Carter had almost ruined the entire fucking presidency, they were having talks in congress asking if the PRESIDENCY, was too big for 1 man, because Carter obviously wasn't fit to handle it. Reagan won in a landslide... becuase the nation was FUCKED and in the middle of a huge depression, the likes of which you've never seen, because you're too fucking young. Interest rates were at 21 percent. Inflation was at 13 percent. Jimmy Carter was having fireside chats telling the people of America to "Turn down the thermostat and put on a sweater". Can you believe that shit? He was going around saying that Americans had it too good, and that the years ahead were going to be full of struggle. Along comes Reagan.
His message was
"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours; Recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses his"
and then he did just the fuck that. You said he wanted to give the rich tax cuts. Does your ignorant ass even know what the tax rate was in America then for the rich? Try 70 percent... that's right, if you were in the highest tax bracket, you made 30 cents out of a dollar. The effect of that, Under Carter's presidency, was that people that had the ability to make money; simply didn't. Why would you bust your ass, making tons of money, if you had to pay the government 70 cents out of the dollar? Fuck, just work less, and bring home more money... how hard is that to understand? As a result, the economy slowed, because those that were truly making money chose not to. There was no incentive to work when you don't get paid for it, even if you ARE rich. It's really quite simple.
Reagan's plan? Cut the 70% down to 50%. Get the rich making money again, spending money again, and the economy would grow again. Everyone benefits from that.
Guess what? You say it doesn't work... but it DID work. Open a fucking history book if you don't believe me. Shit. How can you sit here and dispute it, when IT WORKED! IT WORKED. There's no question about whether or not it does, IT DID! Your Democratic GOD, John Kennedy, DID THE SAME THING when he cut the taxes from 90% to 70%! IT WORKS! Wake up, and just open your eyes, it's NOT THAT HARD OF A CONCEPT TO UNDERSTAND.
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M Dogg, stop listening to what your parents are telling you, because they've been drinking again.
Lol!
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M Dogg, stop listening to what your parents are telling you, because they've been drinking again.
Lol!
First off, my dad don't drink, second off, I got numbers. But mainly I'll say this.
Yes, the United States was suffering in the 70's, it started with Richard Nixon, and continued though Carter. Carter was not a great leader, great man, great peace keeper, not a great leader. Now, the trickle down economy did work to help rich and middle class, BUT, as number prove, the working class suffered greatly. The working class was making less money, there was less help, Vietnam Vets lost their benefits, World War II vets lost their benefits, Korean War vets. Now regardless of what I joke around on the board about, I am not a socialist, I just play one on the internet. I'm going to get on my true believes about Reagan, because I feel very strongly about the first person I remember being president, so there is not really an M Dogg post, but a true Martin Olague post.
We start with his campain again Carter, I have studied it, I will say it's political genious. The man can campain. I remember him on TV later in life, and I was a little kid just in awe of the man I saw before me. I can remember thinking, there is no other man that can be president. The man as a speaker, a politican, a public figure, I can honestly say in my life time, which is only 4 presidents deep, I see no other equal. Bill Clinton comes close, but Reagan not only wouldn't have gotten off with what Bill Clinton was charged with, it would have never even gotten that close to impeachment, because Reagan was too popular to mess with.
As time goes on in life, I started finding out more, especially about his support of dictators in Latin America. Now to everyone else here, it's nothing, I mean using 3rd World nations as a way to gain world political power is a common practice in some of your opinions, and is needed in some cases. Me, I found out, and to hear about what went down in Latin America, I began to realize that maybe Reagan has faults. Then hearing about Saddam in Iraq during Gulf War I, I began to wonder if he was truly an great president. But no matter, Bush Sr. is president, so why worry about the past.
Of course shortly after, the Soviet Union falls, no Reagan gets credit now for ending the Cold War. News flash, the Soviet Union should get credit, because it was not Reagan standing up to the Soviet Union that ended the Cold War, the Soviet Union was falling from within, and the Soviet Union was the reason why Eastern Europe was Communist to begin with. When Mikhail Gorbachev took over, he commented on how the Soviet Union has rockets that can circle the moon, but people in the Soviet Union were still starving. I will give Reagan his due, he did talk to Gorbachev. Check this out.
Gorbachev Confers with Reagan
A part of Gorbachev's plan to improve the economy was to reduce military spending. He believed that the Soviet military was absorbing too much wealth and scarce resources, and he believed that one way to reduce military spending was to make an arms agreement with the United States. The President of the United States, Ronald Reagan, had been calling the Soviet Union an evil empire. Reagan wanted to build up the supply of nuclear bombs for the sake of forcing a reduction in bombs later. He was afraid of nuclear war and was committed to developing a perfect defense system, called Star Wars -- which his critics in the United States were complaining would seem to the Russians to give the U.S. a first strike advantage (a perfect defense eliminating the possibility of retaliation).
Gorbachev had a different view about defense than had Khrushchev and Brezhnev. Khrushchev and Brezhnev had believed that Soviet military prowess was necessary to restrain the capitalist powers from attacking the Soviet Union and its satellites. Instead, Gorbachev saw U.S. leaders as rational, as not interested in destroying the Soviet Union through war and as wanting to avoid a nuclear holocaust. Gorbachev believed that the capitalist powers were not in need of restraint provided by the Soviet Union.
Some were to describe Reagan as having forced Gorbachev to adopt his new policy toward the Cold War -- in other words, to back down because of the Soviet Union's inability to keep up with U.S. advances in military spending. But no evidence exists that Gorbachev's policies were motivated by any threat from the United States. Gorbachev did not feel compelled to match the military programs of the United States. He argued with his military -- which wished to keep up with the U.S. militarily. Reagan's Star Wars idea and his hostile attitude toward the "evil empire" made Gorbachev's arguments with his military more difficult. In these arguments, Gorbachev remained convinced that reductions in military spending were necessary to improve the economy, and Gorbachev let military spending decline with the decline of the economy in general.
Back in April, 1985 -- his first month in office -- Gorbachev had announced his first unilateral initiative: a temporary freeze on the deployment of intermediate-range missiles in Europe. Gorbachev met Reagan at Geneva a few months later, in November 1985, and again in October 1986 at Reykjavik in Iceland, and yet again in May 1988 at a summit meeting in Moscow. Gorbachev and Reagan became friends, Gorbachev recognizing that Reagan sincerely wanted to avoid a nuclear holocaust, that he was a man of decency and sincerity, a former actor who was not faking it. And Reagan saw Gorbachev as something other than an evil Communist robot. Gorbachev convinced Reagan that he was sincere in wanting to end the arms race and in collaborating with the West in restructuring relations. Reagan became the leading "dove" in his administration while anti-Communist Republican hardliners called Reagan "a useful idiot for Soviet propaganda" and "an apologist for Gorbachev."
Gorbachev stunned Reagan's advisors by agreeing to disarmament proposals that they had put forth merely as a bargaining ploy. Meanwhile, Gorbachev's attitudes were making him popular in Western Europe and the United States, where people were calling him "Gorbie." And soon Gorbachev would win the Nobel prize for peace.
I personally feel Reagan was in the right place at the right time for the end of the Cold War. The Soviet Union was at it's end.
On to other issues. Reagan I feel was a very currupt president. Like all presidents though, what can I say. But Reagan hurt the country in a way not seen since LBJ. LBJ cut taxes and raised military spending, and hurt the economy. Reagan did the same thing, but to keep the economy aflout, he also cut social programs, that help out people, and this hurt the working class greatly. I never knew that Bill Clinton was changing the tax brackets to what they once where. Before the poor paid a higher rate, not higher net dollars. But let me ask you this, if you make $20,000 a year, and you are taxed 25%, you are taxed 5,000, so your net pay is $15,000, how is that far, compaired to a man that is paid $100,000, and is taxed 10%, or $10,000, so his net pay is $90,000. Plus the reason many middle class qualify for social programs is because LBJ simply said, the middle class pay the most taxes, therefore they should benefit the most. You guys are not even knowing that middle class people can benefit greatly off of things like Federal Aid for College, Unemployment, and other programs, and in fact, benefit more so than poor. That's because people like Ronald Reagan made social programs a bad word. Now I would never say socialism is the way to go in real life, (sorry to all the liberals that think I was truly a socialist) but I do believe in social programs. I believe in Unemployment, College Aid, Welfare and food stamps to struggling mothers, job programs, and I believe the biggest group to benefit should be the middle class, because they pay the taxes. But Reagan made these programs into bad words. We must never support these things. Hell, Reagan was the one that for a year took out the department of public education.
Now this is for Trauma, well I'm in my actual mode
I'll say exactly how I feel about tax cuts. I am in real life, an old school democrat. I am not a radical liberal like you think I am. I do believe in tax cuts, I feel as though if done right, tax cuts could be the best thing for our country. After all, I'm not exactly happy when I have a big chunk of my check missing, and I can't wait until the new year to file a tax return. With that being said, I feel if done right tax cuts are one of the greatest things we can do. But if done right. Why did the working class still suffer under Reagan. Notice difference in words I use. Working class as oppose to poor, why, because your average blue collar worker is still suffering under tax cuts. If you combined tax cuts with social reform to direct more money to the working class, such as raise min. wage, overtime pay, increase in social programs, then tax cuts can be a blessing. But, to cut taxes, and increase military spending, as well as not finding ways to get money to the working class, then the working class suffers, they are the backbone of the United States. It's the working class that workes the factories, repairs the roads, and does all the little stuff to make this great country run. I am truly a supporter of the working class, and when the rich got the tax cut, they money didn't trickle down far, instead it was saved. If you take a basic economic class, and Reagan was an econ major, you will learn that trickle down economy works. But in practice is was never used correctly by Reagan, I think Bush Sr. did a lot to try and repair it, with is increase in help to working class people, but Reagan during his presidency was not helping. The economic boom of the 90's was not because Bill Clinton raise rich taxes, liberals would like to believe, but because Bill Clinton cut taxes on the middle class and working class. Why, well if you have no money, and you need more money, when you get money, your going to spend it. Bill Clinton's working class tax cut was the final thing that was needed to have full economical recovery from the mess the LBJ left. The raising of rich taxes was not needed, but hey, it would have been nice if Reagan had cut lower class taxes. Being serious, I do respect Reagan for at least staying awake during his econ class, and taking something from it, Reaganomics was basically econ 101, which was needed in a time that needed it the most. But he never completed it, he left it were the rich got richer, but the poor was getting poorer. Instead he spend ill advise money on the military, because he wanted to be safe from the Soviet Union, and when Clinton cut military spending, we freed up tons of money to be used. Also, Reagan took a page out of FDR's book, and borrowed tons of money to also boost the economy. Difference, FDR did it too pull us out of the Great Depression, Reagan borrowed to keep the economy a going to keep his popularity points up. We are in a huge debt now, but we weren't in a depression, just a political battle. Reagan took money out of no where to regain control of the United States, but never had plans to pay it back. That's another reason why the tax cut work under him, he borrowed money to cover his ass. Such as Bush is doing now. Reagan was a careless politican, that charmed his way into the White House, and did a good job keeping himself in there. But what he did for homeless, the working class, war vets and poor unemployed people was very heartless. He is suppose to lead everyone in our great country, and he only represented those that put money into his pocket.
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M dogg-
(http://www.garbagetruck4000.com/archives/iron-my-shirt.jpg)
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^^^^ always enjoy a good picture reply from you.
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m dogg and trauma are BOTH right here.....Reagon did ALOT of good for the Country and some major bad.....me and my family being on the short hand of that stick, so you can't say he was a bad or good president.....he was the right man for the job at the time , do your research on how the country was back then, yeah there was some fucked up draw backs to reagonomics...but the country would've and could've been in a worse situation without some of his shit. His presidency was so so .....but as a person dude was a grade A good person.
R.I.P.
and damn........overseer is serving infinite gormet style
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m dogg and trauma are BOTH right here.....Reagon did ALOT of good for the Country and some major bad.....me and my family being on the short hand of that stick, so you can't say he was a bad or good president.....he was the right man for the job at the time , do your research on how the country was back then, yeah there was some fucked up draw backs to reagonomics...but the country would've and could've been in a worse situation without some of his shit. His presidency was so so .....but as a person dude was a grade A good person.
R.I.P.
Agreed, people neglect to look into the state of the US when Reagan took power, they had just come off some bad Presidents.
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m dogg and trauma are BOTH right here.....Reagon did ALOT of good for the Country and some major bad.....me and my family being on the short hand of that stick, so you can't say he was a bad or good president.....he was the right man for the job at the time , do your research on how the country was back then, yeah there was some fucked up draw backs to reagonomics...but the country would've and could've been in a worse situation without some of his shit. His presidency was so so .....but as a person dude was a grade A good person.
R.I.P.
Agreed, people neglect to look into the state of the US when Reagan took power, they had just come off some bad Presidents.
I take a look at the good too. He was an economics major, and economics was his thing. Reaganomics was the first step to recovery, Clinton, another president who's focus was economics, complete the recovery. I just feel that as a person, Reagan was not that great, I give him a grade D, because we could have had full economical recovery with a tax cut to the poor, but instead we didn't, and his cutting of social programs hurt a lot. Also, he ended the department of education for a year, and his abuse of peoples civil rights across the globe really shows me that he was not a truly good person at all, but only cared about his own political gain in his home country.
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damn... this was an oldie... lol... were my arguments really that long... I miss the days when I had that kind of time for a response like that.
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I wonder since Infinite is now libertarian what his thoughts on welfare and social programs are now?
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I wonder since Infinite is now libertarian what his thoughts on welfare and social programs are now?
As a Libertarian I would cut all social programs and turn everything over to the free market.
Although I was correct in saying that a huge chunk of our taxes actually goes towards the military industrial complex and only a small chunk goes towards wellfare. So to blame high taxes on wellfare like Reagan did, misses the point.
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I wonder since Infinite is now libertarian what his thoughts on welfare and social programs are now?
As a Libertarian I would cut all social programs and turn everything over to the free market.
Although I was correct in saying that a huge chunk of our taxes actually goes towards the military industrial complex and only a small chunk goes towards wellfare. So to blame high taxes on wellfare like Reagan did, misses the point.
I don't disagree that Reagan was as good a friend to the Free Market as Bush was. Regan himself admitted in his memoirs that he never accomplished what he wanted to accomplish as president and couldn't keep his initial campaign promises. I don't think anyone could ever walk into that office and make any real changes unless the establishment wanted them made.
I was just wondering how your opinions on certain things changed over the years. I'm a libertarian just like you, and if I were to find some of my political ideas from '04 I'd probably be ashamed of myself. I once even had a commie phase.
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I wonder since Infinite is now libertarian what his thoughts on welfare and social programs are now?
As a Libertarian I would cut all social programs and turn everything over to the free market.
Although I was correct in saying that a huge chunk of our taxes actually goes towards the military industrial complex and only a small chunk goes towards wellfare. So to blame high taxes on wellfare like Reagan did, misses the point.
I don't disagree that Reagan was as good a friend to the Free Market as Bush was. Regan himself admitted in his memoirs that he never accomplished what he wanted to accomplish as president and couldn't keep his initial campaign promises. I don't think anyone could ever walk into that office and make any real changes unless the establishment wanted them made.
I was just wondering how your opinions on certain things changed over the years. I'm a libertarian just like you, and if I were to find some of my political ideas from '04 I'd probably be ashamed of myself. I once even had a commie phase.
Ya... supposedly Reagan was sounding really Libertarian when he was campaigning for office. But then once in office he presided over a government increase that was much longer then his Democratic counterparts, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter.
Reagan's War on Drugs is a BIG government program which has had disastrous consequences. it has lead to far greater violence on the streets, prisons and jails being flooded with non-violent drug offenders, and hugely expensive have been all the "Say No to Drugs" D.A.R.E. programs which have not lead to any decrease in drug use.
Also he was an advocate of the hugely costly Star Wars space war program, and others of the military industrial complex such as their involvement in propping up South and Central American dictators one day and then disposing of them the next day in a sea of war and violence.
........
...as for you mentioning our past, yeah I think we were both sociolists in our past, but how could we not be? All we learn and are taught in government schools growing up is about the great successes of government over the course of history and they never mention that nearly everything we love from music, to computers, to technology, and on and on.... were all provided to us by the free market, against the greater efforts of the government to turn it all into a giant beuracracy and delay progress.
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Damn, I dropped some knowledge on page 2.
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the more you know the more you grow
i don't think Reagan was that good of a person, now that i know a little bit more. but my so-so opinion still remains. after Nixon, Ford, and Carter he was a better leader for the times. poor people like my family sure as hell didn't benefit from his plans though, but thank god for the clinton era. some one tell me why isn't all gore coming out of his second term right now!?
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the more you know the more you grow
i don't think Reagan was that good of a person, now that i know a little bit more. but my so-so opinion still remains. after Nixon, Ford, and Carter he was a better leader for the times. poor people like my family sure as hell didn't benefit from his plans though, but thank god for the clinton era. some one tell me why isn't all gore coming out of his second term right now!?
What exactly did Clinton do for your family that wasn't happening between 1980 and 1992? It's a serious question. I really am curious.
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whether due to clinton or not, i'd like to think his administration had a large influence on it, but one word...surplus.
but other things such as :
Family and Medical Leave act of 1993
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
help, at least my lil famiy back in the day, so say what you want. things were good for us 93-2000
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whether due to clinton or not, i'd like to think his administration had a large influence on it, but one word...surplus.
but other things such as :
Family and Medical Leave act of 1993
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
help, at least my lil famiy back in the day, so say what you want. things were good for us 93-2000
I wasn't trying to say anything, serious. I wanted specific examples of how life for your family got better in those 8 years compared to the previous 12 and how the federal government policies helped out specifically. If you'd rather not discuss personal stories that's fine. But I just wanted to hear you out, not necessarily try and prove you wrong.
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i just did that. i'm giong to go into great detail but all three of those acts (off the top of my head) helped us as well as people in our area, neighborhood, region, state, country....ect.
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Reagan did do one good thing, he removed the price controls on oil. This brought down prices a great deal from the Carter years. Jimmy Carter also wanted to remove price controls but he had a 5 year plan to do it, Reagan did it right away.