West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Trauma-san on June 19, 2004, 12:22:35 AM
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The ignorance on this issue is so overwhelming I thought I'd post and see what others thought about it... or rather, what others want to argue and bitch about it.
Anyways, people use this idea of the seperation of Church, and State, all the time to explain why they do all kinds of stupid shit like remove God from the pledge of Alleigance, bitch about the wording on our money, etc. I even saw this thing on the news, this little second grader made valentines for his classmates, and they all said "Jesus Loves You" on them. She's 7. Cute little white girl, she thought she'd make everybody cards, blah blah blah you get the picture. Well, she hands them out to everyone in her class when they exchange their valentines, no harm done, right? Well, the liberal teacher sees one, and goes around the room, removes all of the cards from the other kid's desks, publicly, and then hands them back to this little 7 year old and tells her she can't do that, because it violates the seperation of church and state agreement, since the school is public. Imagine the humiliation in this little crumb snatcher, she's being told her beliefs aren't good enough in front of everyone else in the room (who all had no problem with it, by the way).
Are we so fucking ignorant that we think this is a proper interpretation of the seperation of church and state? If the girl isn't allowed to hand somebody a piece of construction paper with the word "Jesus" on it, then surely she's not allowed to say it, either, right? Theoretically, by this screwed up logic, if the girl, in a public school, said the name "Jesus Christ" or anything similar, she would have to be reprimanded, or removed from the school.
The truth and commonsensical thought behind the 'seperation of church and state' is that any member of any state ran organization can be any faith they want, and they have the freedom to express any belief they want. It is only when you FORCE someone to accept your beliefs that you are violating any seperation of church and state clauses in the constitution.
From the beginnings of our country, we have sworn in presidents and judges on a bible. That's a direct violation there in this liberal interpretation, isn't it? Then why did the founding fathers stand for it? How about the word god on our money? In the pledge of allegiance? In the constitution itself? All 43 presidents have acknowledged god in their acceptance speeches, and spoken frequently of God's relationship with America.
In America, everyone is welcome, no matter what religion. We don't condemn people who want to practice whatever faith they want to, and if they want to talk to me about why I should be Muslim, or why I should be Buddhist, or Jewish, or whatever, then that's their right, as far as I'm concerned.
In the meanwhile, grant me those same priviledges. Just because I'm in the majority in nearly everything I do doesn't mean that I CAN'T be discriminated against. When you tell a 7 year old she can't say "Jesus" you are supressing her right to believe in whatever religion she wants. What harm is done when a child tells another child "Jesus Loves You" ? That's disgusting, that teacher oughta be slapped in the mouth.
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Oh, and if my kid came home with an "Allah Loves You" card from some little muslim, I wouldn't care! What's the big deal? Am I the ONLY ONE who sees the idiocy in the way this world is turning?
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It very idiotic. It's obviously not what the forefathers who founded the US intended for it to be, but the stupid Supreme Court.
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Dealing out cards with Jesus loves you! to people that aren't sharing the same view actually is forcing your religion upon others. Though it's nice to be loved by someone I'm sure such cards could actually make someone feel discomfortable. Also,can't it be denigrating to a muslim or a hindu to get cards with Jesus loves you! upon them? It could be thought to mean that Muhammed or any hindi god doesn't love them wich is actually saying their religion isn't as 'good' as the christian one.Quite shocking to them. So,though the teacher might have overreacted,I do think he had the right intentions in mind.
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for once i'm with trauma on this one, there was no negative intention of the card it was done out of kindness the world is getting rediculas.
just like that guy who successfully sued that car manufacturer after crashing his camper on cruise control whilst the back making a cup of tea cos it didn't saw it won't stear itself
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If a child wants to give thanks to God before eating a school meal, thats fine. If a child wants to talk about their faith in school, thats fine. Teachers teaching students about all the major faiths in the world in a religious education course (not preaching) is fine. However teachers should not be allowed to lead their students in religious activities in school. And that teacher is a clueless disgrace to the profession.
And having grown up in a country where there isn't a seperation between Church and State, the US should be grateful they have it, fuck the Christian fundementalists that think having seperation is a bad idea, they're just as clueless as that teacher.
That's my simplified 2 pence on the issue.
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I think many people take this way way way out of proportion. Yea, just recently the supreme court ruled that God can stay in the pledge....this is pathetic. what is the big fucking deal in saying....under God....is it really that bad of a thing, not matter your religion?
Its not hurting anyone, and its not like your admitting to being a religious person.
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Dealing out cards with Jesus loves you! to people that aren't sharing the same view actually is forcing your religion upon others. Though it's nice to be loved by someone I'm sure such cards could actually make someone feel discomfortable. Also,can't it be denigrating to a muslim or a hindu to get cards with Jesus loves you! upon them? It could be thought to mean that Muhammed or any hindi god doesn't love them wich is actually saying their religion isn't as 'good' as the christian one.Quite shocking to them. So,though the teacher might have overreacted,I do think he had the right intentions in mind.
You've got to be fucking kidding me.
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Dealing out cards with Jesus loves you! to people that aren't sharing the same view actually is forcing your religion upon others. Though it's nice to be loved by someone I'm sure such cards could actually make someone feel discomfortable. Also,can't it be denigrating to a muslim or a hindu to get cards with Jesus loves you! upon them? It could be thought to mean that Muhammed or any hindi god doesn't love them wich is actually saying their religion isn't as 'good' as the christian one.Quite shocking to them. So,though the teacher might have overreacted,I do think he had the right intentions in mind.
You've got to be fucking kidding me.
You bet I'm not,unless having a different opinion from yours qualifies as kidding you.
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Oh, and if my kid came home with an "Allah Loves You" card from some little muslim, I wouldn't care! What's the big deal? Am I the ONLY ONE who sees the idiocy in the way this world is turning?
I agree with you 100 percent.