West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Lincoln on June 21, 2004, 11:21:18 AM
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Overseer asked me to take this over here. I am for the death penalty in the cases of murderers, rapists and those at the top of organized crime.
Let the discussion begin.
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I'd rather make them vegetables.
What Tray Deee did is nowhere near Death Penalty, I dont get how you can have such a opinion.
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I'd rather make them vegetables.
What Tray Deee did is nowhere near Death Penalty, I dont get how you can have such a opinion.
Ok I'm a little unclear on the whole Tray Dee issue. Now did he actually kill someone or was it attempted murder? If he didn't actually kill someone I think 20 years is a good sentence.
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^ don't even mentioned Tray Deee. -no one- here knows what tray deee did. lincoln should never have brought this up in that thread.
Killing someone is NEVER EVER right no matter what they've done.
Outside america which countries classed as civilised still carry the death sentence? in many it was abolished a long time ago, around the time of slavery.
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I don't know about where you live but here in Canada prisoners get a place to sleep at night, 3 meals a day, a workout room and free High School/College/University equivelant education....all FREE. That's more than I have, I only eat 2 meals a day. I have to pay to go to College. And my Dad payed $17,000 in taxes this year. I wonder how much went to the bullshit prison system? We pay for these murderers, pedophiles and rapists to get a free ride. That is bullshit. Kill them and be rid of them.
Worst case I ever heard of. I was reading the paper the other day and they had a story of a repeat rapist. They're letting him out of jail, upon which he swears he'll rape again. His Mother begged the courts to keep him in jail. The doctors at the prison (we pay for them too!) said not to let him out. Why is this man even allowed to live? He raped 3 women, destroying them mentally for the rest of their lives and he swears he'll do it again. That's the kind of thing that pisses me off.
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ONLY AND ONLY IF there is without a shadow of a doubt, proof that the suspect committed the heinous crime. There should be no question at all when your thinking about ending someones life.
This goes for people who have been on death row for 20-30 years as well. Their cases should be re-evaluated and if there is more than enough evidence that they committed the crime then fine, kill them.
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As far as Im concerned the USA is the only country of the so-called civilized ones where killing ppl is legal. (hint: death penalty)
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^ exactly what i said.
when is killing someone, no matter under what circumstances civilised?
lock em, throw away the key, and make em repent + suffer.
dont give them a quick death and no more.. its done "humanely" right? so they don't suffer.. whats the point? apart from saving money.
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^ exactly what i said.
when is killing someone, no matter under what circumstances civilised?
lock em, throw away the key, and make em repent + suffer.
dont give them a quick death and no more.. its done "humanely" right? so they don't suffer.. whats the point? apart from saving money.
It's not just the money, it's the principle behind it. Why should a good law-abiding person pay for a criminal?
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^ isn't that selfish on your part?
killing someone takes you to their level.
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I'm for the death penalty. You can come up with the reasons why. Nobody is gonna change my opinion and I can't change the opinion of anyone else. Discussion closed.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say you're stooping to the murderer/rapists level if you put them to death. If you do something as evil and cold hearted as murder someone, what is just punishment for that person? Sitting in a cell for the rest of your life with a TV to watch and three square meals?
The victim can never get their life back and IMO I don't think the sick bastard that took it deserves to keep theirs, even if they are locked away from society for good.
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i dont think a rapist should get the death penalty.
Im kind of mixed on this issue. You could say an eye for an eye, but then arent you just as bad as them if you take their life?
But i do not think that we americans are uncivilized because we have the death penalty.
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^ most sensible post you've ever made :)
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You have to think about it with a clear mind.
If somebody kills someone, what can you do? You only have a limited number of choices.
1. You could just let them walk away free. I think we all agree that's not a reasonable option.
2. You could sentence them to a set period of time, i.e. 20 years or so in prison. This is paid for by taxpayers, so basically if he kills somebody the taxpayers get punished.
3. You could sentence him to life. Same deal with the taxpayers, and if we're basically permanently taking his freedom away, isn't he already dead anyways?
4. You can kill him. There's always going to be opposition to that, and we dont' know enough about the world beyond this one factually to make any kind of justice or punishment determinations that result in life and death decisions.
What I would ACTUALLY like to see happen is, I think when people are in jail, we should work their asses off. Make them fucking slaves to the system, and use their blood and sweat to build America up into a great country. Have them make all our clothing, for instance. Or have them do tedious jobs with little or no pay that nobody else wants to do. It's not a perfect answer, but if we're going to lock somebody up, they should suffer, and I mean suffer HARD. Fuck being humane to them. We don't have to torture them, but they oughta be sweating their asses off.
Since that will never happen, I'm gonna revert back to my standard answer: I don't really give a fuck. The government takes care of that for me, I don't HAVE to decide which is better, because I don't have a vote in it. I'll let them decide, and then just continue on with the decision not affecting my life at all, with the exception of the taxes I pay.
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i dont think a rapist should get the death penalty.
Im kind of mixed on this issue. You could say an eye for an eye, but then arent you just as bad as them if you take their life?
That's a valid point. Rapists are so sick though I could care less what happens to them, personally. They could be put to death or be locked up for life with a bunch of butt pirates and have the same thing he did to some victim happen to him for the rest of his life.
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rapeist, molesters, and serial killers should be put to death
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for everyone using the taxes reason behind their arguement.
i think i read somewhere that the government pays on average around $25,000 a year on each prisoner. That varies depending on state, and what kind of luxuries the prisoner gets.
Heck, there are some prisons where each prisoner gets his own cell, and his own tv. Might i add with cable tv. They get to go outside, complete with a very nice gym. Basketball courts. But you still are confined to prison so thats the downside.
But states do pay alot of money to have people executed, alot of money is spent on convicts using the appealing process. Dont they get like 7 years to appeal if their on death row?
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i dont think a rapist should get the death penalty.
Im kind of mixed on this issue. You could say an eye for an eye, but then arent you just as bad as them if you take their life?
That's a valid point. Rapists are so sick though I could care less what happens to them, personally. They could be put to death or be locked up for life with a bunch of butt pirates and have the same thing he did to some victim happen to him for the rest of his life.
See, you bring up a valid point, I don't know if you meant it that way, but we'll do it like this... I'll ask YOU this, and Overseer too. I'm being respectful here, so please just answer it honestly.
If a man, RAPED say... Queen Elizabeth, and then killed her. And then desecrated her body, and burned down Parliament, then urinated on Princess Diana's grave. (I'm saying this because O's british).... wouldn't you want him to die? Wouldn't the death penalty be appropriate then? Or say somebody RAPED Ghandi or someone similarly beloved. Wouldn't he deserve the death penalty?
If you say YES, then we've stopped arguing about the moral issue, now we're just coming to terms with where we draw the line.
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put him/her in jail. over here and in mainland europe some high profile politicians and celebs have been murdered and when not shot on the spot, they end up in jail.
to be honest, someone (inside) would probably get at him anyways.
and often in these high profile cases they commit suicide.
legally things may be different for royalty as its an act of treason, it may still carry the death sentence, and i'm sure there'd be a campaign to bring it back, just once..
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What I would ACTUALLY like to see happen is, I think when people are in jail, we should work their asses off. Make them fucking slaves to the system, and use their blood and sweat to build America up into a great country. Have them make all our clothing, for instance. Or have them do tedious jobs with little or no pay that nobody else wants to do. It's not a perfect answer, but if we're going to lock somebody up, they should suffer, and I mean suffer HARD. Fuck being humane to them. We don't have to torture them, but they oughta be sweating their asses off.
Since that will never happen, I'm gonna revert back to my standard answer: I don't really give a fuck. The government takes care of that for me, I don't HAVE to decide which is better, because I don't have a vote in it. I'll let them decide, and then just continue on with the decision not affecting my life at all, with the exception of the taxes I pay.
i agree 100% with that.
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put him/her in jail. over here and in mainland europe some high profile politicians and celebs have been murdered and when not shot on the spot, they end up in jail.
to be honest, someone (inside) would probably get at him anyways.
and often in these high profile cases they commit suicide.
legally things may be different for royalty as its an act of treason, it may still carry the death sentence, and i'm sure there'd be a campaign to bring it back, just once..
Well... I hope if something like that does happen to them yall get medevial on their ass for just once...
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^ more pulp fiction..
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I have to proclaim Im suprised that 2 of our most religious members want them criminals punished so severe.
Dont you think it's best if you leave their destinies in gods hands? Only god can judge us, and shit, you know?
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I'm one for the death penalty if the evidence is overwhelming.
American prisons are too fucking easy. I would cut 65% of prison funds.
Fuck this shit about murderers getting organ transplants. I would do away with death row if you killed someone and the evidence is overwhelming you die a month after your trail...fucka last meal if you want to eat some good food tell your family to bring you some shit.
No easy way out by gas or lethal injection.
Just put the person in a cage and dunk the person into a body of water.
Cost = $.50 gas for the crane.
btw I just felt the earth move while writing this post ;D
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^ exactly what i said.
when is killing someone, no matter under what circumstances civilised?
lock em, throw away the key, and make em repent + suffer.
dont give them a quick death and no more.. its done "humanely" right? so they don't suffer.. whats the point? apart from saving money.
exactly what i was gonna say
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most ppl whp done real bad shit just commit suicide nowadays anyway i'd rather they do that then get death, even so that pisses me off cos they jus done takn the easy way out and had no chance to pay their debt who they inflicted shit on.
plus if u use death penaulty whose to say u were right, the last person to get death in england is now widely believed to be innocent
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Why do we always have to be civilized.
We're all animals :D
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well there is some good things out of life in prison.
david berkowitz(sp??) was a good example of how life in prison can really change your life. incase you dont know who he is, its the guy who was known as "son of sam" he was a serial killer, who later accepted God while serving his life sentence.
so their are some upsides to it.
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the only reason i disagree with the death penalty is for the amount is costs for a prisoner on death row.... like someone else said....no one here will make you change your mind about it so there's no reason why i should say i'm for it
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it depends how they kill them not all people deserve painful deaths only rapeists and serial killers that did sum reall fucked up shit
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^ what the hell you talkin about?
no one is given 'cruel' deaths in the US system... it aint like they're tortured n shit
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for the people that say that a person shouldn't die for their actions...i have a quick scenario....what if the murderer had hostages, killed a few and threatened to kill more....should a sniper not take his life? right there you have judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one
and to the people that say the death penalty is cruel... years of ass rapings, beatings and slowly dying of AIDS is an ok life?
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i thought this might come up, i already kinda touched on it but didn't take further.
yes its right, because its preventing further deaths.
now i suppose you'll say the same argument could be said for killers, that if they're killed it stops them killing again. but so does locking them up.
the saying "prevention is better than cure" comes to mind..
the cure is using the sniper, prevention is having got him beforehand...
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but murders still happen in prison...look at Jefferey Dahmer...shouldn't these murders be prevented too?
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for the people that say that a person shouldn't die for their actions...i have a quick scenario....what if the murderer had hostages, killed a few and threatened to kill more....should a sniper not take his life? right there you have judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one
and to the people that say the death penalty is cruel... years of ass rapings, beatings and slowly dying of AIDS is an ok life?
I'd order the sniper to shoot him right between his eyes...case closed.
Lives saved, City saved = greater than > 1 million dollars (court case, jail for life) spend it on a park or something.
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but murders still happen in prison...look at Jefferey Dahmer...shouldn't these murders be prevented too?
not when their are in solitary ;)
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but murders still happen in prison...look at Jefferey Dahmer...shouldn't these murders be prevented too?
not when their are in solitary ;)
Thats much more expensive.
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040617/capt.sge.fdn11.170604091240.photo00.default-229x384.jpg)
bad teeth was a given
(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040621/capt.sge.gmh73.210604193914.photo00.default-398x253.jpg)
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^^^
what the hell
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resorting to personal attacks?? = ban
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what the hell just happened? and i see he got banned, but still not sure why?
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trying to insult me and my country cos i make a comment on solitary confinement, what a weirdo
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trying to insult me and my country cos i make a comment on solitary confinement, what a weirdo
explain his joke or insult, i dont get it
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I have to proclaim Im suprised that 2 of our most religious members want them criminals punished so severe.
Dont you think it's best if you leave their destinies in gods hands? Only god can judge us, and shit, you know?
Of course I believe that. Kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out.
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am i the only one who laughed about kain's joke? ::)
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i get kains joke wasent too funny tho
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this wasnt the sole reason, he was also throwing around some pretty offensive stuff about italians in another thread.
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For everyone who is pro death penalty and uses that crappy "burden to the taxpayer" excuse as to why we should take a life away, look at this:
Financial Facts About the Death Penalty
$ Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:
The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).
The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
The costs of carrying out an execution (including death row incarceration) were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.
Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
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For everyone who is pro death penalty and uses that crappy "burden to the taxpayer" excuse as to why we should take a life away, look at this:
Financial Facts About the Death Penalty
$ Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:
The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).
The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
The costs of carrying out an execution (including death row incarceration) were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.
Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
See, it's not what the bottom line $$ is to me. It's the principle. We as this time pay for prisoners to have a comfortable life, that's what bothers me.
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^^^^
I mean except for getting gang raped by bubba and steve, prison isnt that bad anymore. I mean the jails arent like jackson anymroe where your chained together and working on road construction.
Prison life really isnt that bad. Most of the time your getting your own cell. You have a gym to workout. Basketball courts to have fun. Cable tv. 3 course meals everyday.
i mean to some people this is like heaven. Prison has basically become a 2 star hotel for bad guys.
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For everyone who is pro death penalty and uses that crappy "burden to the taxpayer" excuse as to why we should take a life away, look at this:
Financial Facts About the Death Penalty
$ Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:
The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).
The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
The costs of carrying out an execution (including death row incarceration) were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.
Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=108&scid=7
i've been saying this since the Tray Deee thread...some people don't listen though
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yea u get TV, Gyms, etc etc. but no inmate is there for the whole day! its like what . one hour to two hours? then ur back in ur cell. How can prison be comfortable...ur not free.
back in the late 90s...there was 25 cases studied from Illionois i believe...and out of those 25 cases , 13 ended up being innocent. Left and right i see cases about people that have been in death row for more than 10 years and they end up being innocent. Why? Because people are in such a hurry that they wanna put the first person they think its guilty to death so they can have immediate healing. If they only studied 25 cases at that certain time...imagine how many more innocent people are on death row right now at this very moment. Thats just fucken wrong.
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there not always innocent, sometimes they can sneak by the cracks of our judicial system.
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and sometimes ur judicial system is fucked and frame innocent ppl
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there not always innocent, sometimes they can sneak by the cracks of our judicial system.
what's the deal with writing 'there' instead of 'they're' ??? no offense, but I see it all the time and it makes me wonder..
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i guess i just dont think about it when im typing. but they're are always going to be people who do that :)
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This is a very touchy subject but here is my take on the Death Penalty. Personally, a few years ago I didn't really know where I stood when it came to the Death Penalty. I used to say that it was wrong & cruel but then I started to think about a situation such as "What if someone raped or murdered a member of my family?". My response to that question was "there is no way in hell that I would want that muthafucka to continue to walk this earth!". I think that the people who say that the death penalty is cruel might change their opinions if something bad happed to someone in their family because I don't think anyone really knows how they would react if something like that happened. You might say it's wrong right now but a person's mentality would most likely change if a family member was murdered or raped. So yeah, I'm for the death penalty! That's just my opinion.
I don't think that anyone here is wrong with their opinions about the death penalty. I think that everyone has brought up some good points concerning the pros & cons but it all comes down to personal opinion.
Peace!
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the iraqi kindappers have a death penalty mentality... whats the difference between them and usa?