West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Suga Foot on October 11, 2004, 06:21:15 PM
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What are your views on them and the special treatment they get?
Do you think it's right that they get to live on Reserves where there is basically no laws, they don't pay taxes and get tons of free stuff.
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What are your views on them and the special treatment they get?
unfair. Let's look at it this way, when a white person wants to die, they have to go out there way and find someone to kill them. We just had it where the white man came to us and killed us all. Frankly, I think we got the better end of it. I mean, who needs a whole tribe of people that we had, I mean the 19 people of my tribe still alive, that's plenty of people to carry on our traditions once held by hundreds of thousands.
Do you think it's right that they get to live on Reserves where there is basically no laws, they don't pay taxes and get tons of free stuff.
The reservation is great. (I've actually been to reservations many many times) I mean, before casinos, there was a bunch of beat up old houses out in the middle of the desert. I mean, lets face it, the white men lost out, they forced into some great land. I heard stories that when the old natives tried to grow on the reservations, they couldn't grow a damn thing. Then check this out, when they tried to leave, the military was sent to put them back in, or kill them, whichever was easier. Of course the government kick down free food, and it was the best food you can get. I remember as a kid going to visit my mom's people in the reservation, and they had powdered milk, government cheese, and some really old pasta, and basically I thought it was cool because it was all government surplus food. God damn those casino, now natives can buy there own food. I mean, now I go there and the shacks are replaced by nice houses, and you see the natives have gained weight. I always thought we were suppose to stay skinny. Whoever heard of a chunky native. If no one in this country has a weight problem, then why should the natives. And why did we agree to be a solvergn nation. I mean, many years ago, they said we had freedoms in our tribes, as long as we stayed in them. I figure that they should have just ruled us in our own tribes too. Hell, they killed us and forced us to stay in the most unfertal land in this country, the least they could have done is took away our freedoms to be our own people. But I mean, the United States has given us such a special treatment.
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Nati ve americans got fucked.. and people need to stop callin them indians
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What are your views on them and the special treatment they get?
Do you think it's right that they get to live on Reserves where there is basically no laws, they don't pay taxes and get tons of free stuff.
is this another anti jew thread?
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They definitely get mistrated even until this day. That's the only reason I don't make a fuss about the reservations, that's the one positive thing going for them, they don't have to pay taxes.
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What are your views on them and the special treatment they get?
Do you think it's right that they get to live on Reserves where there is basically no laws, they don't pay taxes and get tons of free stuff.
is this another anti jew thread?
who's anti-jewish?
Anyway, I think it's time they integrate into society and live by the rules we all do. We've adopted parts of their culture:
(http://www.bankofcanada.ca/en/banknotes/graphs/photos/general/2001-05/cjs_20b.gif)
(http://www.komotv.com/news/images/seahawks_logo.jpg)
so why can't they adopt parts of ours? I think we should all be equal, it's been 200 years. It's not really a big deal because it doesn't really affect me, but It's just something I don't understand. Maybe I just can't put myself in their shoes. I dunno.
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maybe I'll edumacate myself on this situation.
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They should be treated like every other citizen. It's complete bullshit the special treatment they get.
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leave them the fuck alone yall whites already fucked with them back in the old days just let them be...
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I don't really give a shit one way or the other what kind of treatment they get, to tell you the truth. There's only like, what, 5 of them left?
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Oh, and thank GOD for Christopher Columbus. Happy Columbus Day!
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I don't really give a shit one way or the other what kind of treatment they get, to tell you the truth. There's only like, what, 5 of them left?
There's tons of them in The North West. They kill whales and shit.
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Damn, that's pretty impressive.
Lessay just for jokesies that I get the bright idea to go kill a fucking WHALE. How exactly do you go about that? First, you have to find them . They don't come near the land. So you'd need a boat. Then, you'd have to know how to track whales down, and find them... because the ocean's pretty fucking big. Where would the whales be? I dunno, I've never seen one outside of SeaWorld. So, that would be a challenge.
Next, if you found the whale, how would you kill it? Would you just shoot at it? How do you know where to shoot? If you DO kill it, what do you do with it? You can't lift it. Maybe you could drag it back to the beach.... but THEN what would you do with it?
Seems like a lot of fucking trouble. These indians must be pretty damn intelligent, they'd kick my ass at Whale Killing.
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i have no opinon there's no right or wrong here
if i was a full blooded native american i'd just go live a regular life in society
but i can't lie paying no taxes sounds good
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I dont think its fair....heres why.
What native americans that are currently living right now were alive when pilgrims came to americca and kicked them out?
......none.
Its stupid to say were going to give you all this stuff for doing nothing, or living through nothing. No offense to black people, but...
What if they were to pass a bill that stop taxes for african americas, because of what they suffered during the slave era. How would that be fair, none of them are even living anymore who were slaves, so whats the point.
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damn... i never knew they didn't have to pay taxes... i know an indian family that's living kind of poorly on a reservation, but they have a LOT of money... now i know why :-X
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damn... i never knew they didn't have to pay taxes... i know an indian family that's living kind of poorly on a reservation, but they have a LOT of money... now i know why :-X
prolly cuzz they like to save it
native americans like to save stuff...
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Leave the Natives alone, they deserve all the good shit they can get...its been a long brutal past for them and their ancestors and its their fucking land.
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its been a long brutal past for them and their ancestors and its their fucking land.
very true
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damn... i never knew they didn't have to pay taxes... i know an indian family that's living kind of poorly on a reservation, but they have a LOT of money... now i know why :-X
prolly cuzz they like to save it
native americans like to save stuff...
these people spend a lot of money though lol
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I believe that they should be given government subsidized land, housing, etc... but I believe they should have to pay taxes.
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Leave the Natives alone, they deserve all the good shit they can get...its been a long brutal past for them and their ancestors and its their fucking land.
Ok, a 20 year old native american, who lives a normal american life.
How has his life been brutal? What experiences (apart from every other american) have they had, that are so bad, that they deserve tax exemption and ability to get into colleges easier.
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Leave the Natives alone, they deserve all the good shit they can get...its been a long brutal past for them and their ancestors and its their fucking land.
props 8)
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Leave the Natives alone, they deserve all the good shit they can get...its been a long brutal past for them and their ancestors and its their fucking land.
Ok, a 20 year old native american, who lives a normal american life.
How has his life been brutal? What experiences (apart from every other american) have they had, that are so bad, that they deserve tax exemption and ability to get into colleges easier.
Like me!!!!!!! partly, I'm only like 25% Paiute, but I lived with my grandma who was 100%. Anyways, let me break it down for you a bit. How would you feel if someone came to your house, took it over, and said they are the people making rules around here and you are of no importance to them. Them to look around, and see everyone that is like you dying. Then your grandkids have no one to learn the culture from. Now lets put you in my generation. You know where you are from, you know your history, but you don't know a damn thing about what it means to be who you are. There are only 19 people left from your tribe. You are asking anyone who knows anything, because you are trying to find your culture, your way of being. The land that was suppose to be your land is gone. Your tribe doesn't even have a reservation because no one is left. Another tribe is willing to adobt you, and with their casino money, pay off your student loans. You go to college to learn what the white man knows, so you can understand better why they did what they did. To be honest, that's a big part of my questioning, WHY? Other natives, they get mad, they get resentful, because this is land that was suppose to be ours. When you look at United States society, it's stressful, it's fast pace, it's all about money. Our culture is not like that. It's community, it's about sharing, we get lost trying to fit in, because we are not the type of people that can fit in Capitalist society. I want to know why things happened. You can't changed the past, but to me, I want to understand it better, in hopes of finding a way to help natives cope with the future.
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So lets say somone stole 20$ from my great great grandfather. So later when im alive, a relative of that theif comes to me and says "heres 20$ that my great great grandfather stole from yours....."
Honestly do you think i'd give a shit about that....no. I have put myself in a currently living native american life. Its not like the government is blocking them from having normal lives, there not imprisoning them. They can live a normal life. They should get any shit extra.
Why not give blacks tax exemption. We made them slaves.
Why not give Japanese people tax exemption. We put them in camps.
Why not give iraqi americans tax exemption. We are killing iraqis in iraq right now.
Why not give vietnamese americans tax exemption. We killed tons of them in vietnam.
ON, and ON , and ON. What makes indians so special? Because hundreds of years ago we kicked them off their land? Big deal get over it.
And by the way. Thanx for the negative karma guys. I didnt know we had so many indians on this board. God cant give my opinion without people dissing me.
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^^that mistreatment happened even 10 years ago, maybe even still today
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I believe that they should be given government subsidized land, housing, etc... but I believe they should have to pay taxes.
i know some reservations had houses built for them but they burned them down
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So lets say somone stole 20$ from my great great grandfather. So later when im alive, a relative of that theif comes to me and says "heres 20$ that my great great grandfather stole from yours....."
Honestly do you think i'd give a shit about that....no. I have put myself in a currently living native american life. Its not like the government is blocking them from having normal lives, there not imprisoning them. They can live a normal life. They should get any shit extra.
Why not give blacks tax exemption. We made them slaves.
Why not give Japanese people tax exemption. We put them in camps.
Why not give iraqi americans tax exemption. We are killing iraqis in iraq right now.
Why not give vietnamese americans tax exemption. We killed tons of them in vietnam.
ON, and ON , and ON. What makes indians so special? Because hundreds of years ago we kicked them off their land? Big deal get over it.
And by the way. Thanx for the negative karma guys. I didnt know we had so many indians on this board. God cant give my opinion without people dissing me.
we don't give any of them breaks because there's still millions of them left alive...whens the last time you saw 5 indians hanging together?
honestly, i don't see what the deal is about letting them be tax exempt and have their own land.... there's probably less than 100,000 of them alive...
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So lets say somone stole 20$ from my great great grandfather. So later when im alive, a relative of that theif comes to me and says "heres 20$ that my great great grandfather stole from yours....."
Honestly do you think i'd give a shit about that....no. I have put myself in a currently living native american life. Its not like the government is blocking them from having normal lives, there not imprisoning them. They can live a normal life. They should get any shit extra.
Why not give blacks tax exemption. We made them slaves.
Why not give Japanese people tax exemption. We put them in camps.
Why not give iraqi americans tax exemption. We are killing iraqis in iraq right now.
Why not give vietnamese americans tax exemption. We killed tons of them in vietnam.
ON, and ON , and ON. What makes indians so special? Because hundreds of years ago we kicked them off their land? Big deal get over it.
And by the way. Thanx for the negative karma guys. I didnt know we had so many indians on this board. God cant give my opinion without people dissing me.
why in the blue hell would I give you negative karma. I don't give negative karma, to me it's pointless. I am a positive person that only gives props. I am only trying to talk to you about a situation. Now let me answer your post.
Why not give blacks tax exemption. We made them slaves.
No, they were promised a lot of things, but never got it. Tax exemptions though is completely different than what was promised but never given to Natives.
Why not give Japanese people tax exemption. We put them in camps.
awww but we did give the people in camps money to make up for our mistake. Basically how slavery reperations argument came about. Once the U.S. gave teh Japanese money, then blacks started asking for money with slavery. Back then it was a justified argument because the effects of slavery was still felt in the black community, and racism was running wild.
Why not give iraqi americans tax exemption. We are killing iraqis in iraq right now.
We are at war with Iraqis. This happens through out history
Why not give vietnamese americans tax exemption. We killed tons of them in vietnam.
That was a war. Though we did take many Vietnamese into our country, and gave them refugee money to start a new life here.
This is the main reason why we get tax exempts, NATIVES LIVE IN RESERVATION IN THEIR OWN LITTLE COUNTRIES. Peep game. Each reservation is treated like it's own country. Many years ago it was done by the U.S. to keep the Natives weak. If they are in little reservations, as their own country, then they cannot join together and fight back against the U.S. It was perfect, divide and conquer. They gave the Natives their own little nations, completely sovereign from the rest of the country. Back then, they left the Natives in the most unfertal, unwanted land they can find. To be human, they gave the Natives food, so they can live, and threaten the life of any Native willing to leave. Here's the funny part though. About 15 years ago, in California, one Native reservation on the way to Las Vegas thought that since they have their own rules, why don't they legalize gambling, so that when people are on their way to Vegas, they see a casino in California, and get some business. It was a way so that the Natives can start supporting ourselves. We didn't know we'd make this much money. But it's a way so that we can finally have an income in our own little tribes, technically little nations, and support ourselves. We are proud people, many natives hated the fact that the U.S. gave us our food, and took our land and treated us like babies because we couldn't we couldn't take care of ourselves. Our men in the reservation were ruined, our kids became out of control, we as a people were reduced to being a depended on U.S. society. After over 500 years of struggle against the white man, we finally have a way to take care of ourselves, support our people, build better schools on our reservation, and allow our people to live a better life. We are our own little country, remember that. Other than the aid that the U.S. gives us, we don't get much from tax money. Our roads for years were messed up, our schools were shitty, our houses were shacks. It was our money made from casinos that paid for bettering our live. So We take care of ourselves, not the U.S., so why should a reservation pay taxes. After being treated like shit for hundreds of years, we finally find a way to support ourselves, and you want that too. Fuck that!
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props to m-dogg
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oh, and one more thing, the tax exempt, from my life experence is only for Natives on the reservation. Those living in mainstream U.S. life still pay taxes. I know my grandma did, and she's a full blood. It might be though that she had no tribe to be a part of, I am not completely sure. But she is full blooded Native, and she had to pay taxes her whole life.
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Lost Angel is spitting real knowledge here... if i could give props i would... props nonetheless :cheers:
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i think the idea of owning casinos was nice but there's a lot of shady bullshit going one where some indian "leaders" open these casinos and make mad profits and live in mansions in lake tahoe but neglect to share this money with the people under there tribes who live in clay huts with one strand of wire that brings in electricity 30 minutes out of the day.
that's why i say fuck it...why would i want to live on a reservation and live seperated from the advanced world...i think it's great to know your culture and all but seriously if you look through the history of time no one culture is set forever. cultures adapt to others and live in new cultures comprised of combinations of older ones....that's why if i was a full blooded native american i'd live my life the same as any other american....i'd be in touch with my culture but i wouldn't feel the need to go get me a teepee and hunt deer and name my kids running kit fox and shit.
in all honesty i feel bad for the iindians' stuggle when they lost america to the europeaners but seriously how do you think many of those tribes came to power? by taking land from other tribes. the aztecs did it and so did the mayans. then the europeans came over and did the same, it's a circle. one day some nation in the future will come and take over/liberate america. God didn't just say let there be asia and put all the asians in one continent then let there be Europe and put all the whites on the other then way the fuck out in the americas he said let there be Cheif Strong wolf in N. Dakota and the Aztecs in mexico.
like i said earlier there's no wrong or right answer when talking about this shit
it's bad that the indians got pumped with no vaseline.....but it was bound to happen.
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Lost Angel is spitting real knowledge here... if i could give props i would... props nonetheless :cheers:
Thats truth
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I support Native Americans, Especially the Morongo Tribe, Seeing as i wasted almost 2 paychecks @ their Casino.....
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I support Native Americans, Especially the Morongo Tribe, Seeing as i wasted almost 2 paychecks @ their Casino.....
LMAO. Yo that is one dope casino. I had so much fun there on my 18th birthday.
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Life isn't fair. You mad? ::)
What are your views on them and the special treatment they get?
unfair. Let's look at it this way, when a white person wants to die, they have to go out there way and find someone to kill them. We just had it where the white man came to us and killed us all. Frankly, I think we got the better end of it. I mean, who needs a whole tribe of people that we had, I mean the 19 people of my tribe still alive, that's plenty of people to carry on our traditions once held by hundreds of thousands.
Do you think it's right that they get to live on Reserves where there is basically no laws, they don't pay taxes and get tons of free stuff.
The reservation is great. (I've actually been to reservations many many times) I mean, before casinos, there was a bunch of beat up old houses out in the middle of the desert. I mean, lets face it, the white men lost out, they forced into some great land. I heard stories that when the old natives tried to grow on the reservations, they couldn't grow a damn thing. Then check this out, when they tried to leave, the military was sent to put them back in, or kill them, whichever was easier. Of course the government kick down free food, and it was the best food you can get. I remember as a kid going to visit my mom's people in the reservation, and they had powdered milk, government cheese, and some really old pasta, and basically I thought it was cool because it was all government surplus food. God damn those casino, now natives can buy there own food. I mean, now I go there and the shacks are replaced by nice houses, and you see the natives have gained weight. I always thought we were suppose to stay skinny. Whoever heard of a chunky native. If no one in this country has a weight problem, then why should the natives. And why did we agree to be a solvergn nation. I mean, many years ago, they said we had freedoms in our tribes, as long as we stayed in them. I figure that they should have just ruled us in our own tribes too. Hell, they killed us and forced us to stay in the most unfertal land in this country, the least they could have done is took away our freedoms to be our own people. But I mean, the United States has given us such a special treatment.
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Yeah, Cortez and the gang should of just finished the job IMO. Forgive my comments I just am not a big fan of Natives.
So lets say somone stole 20$ from my great great grandfather. So later when im alive, a relative of that theif comes to me and says "heres 20$ that my great great grandfather stole from yours....."
Honestly do you think i'd give a shit about that....no. I have put myself in a currently living native american life. Its not like the government is blocking them from having normal lives, there not imprisoning them. They can live a normal life. They should get any shit extra.
Why not give blacks tax exemption. We made them slaves.
Why not give Japanese people tax exemption. We put them in camps.
Why not give iraqi americans tax exemption. We are killing iraqis in iraq right now.
Why not give vietnamese americans tax exemption. We killed tons of them in vietnam.
ON, and ON , and ON. What makes indians so special? Because hundreds of years ago we kicked them off their land? Big deal get over it.
And by the way. Thanx for the negative karma guys. I didnt know we had so many indians on this board. God cant give my opinion without people dissing me.
why in the blue hell would I give you negative karma. I don't give negative karma, to me it's pointless. I am a positive person that only gives props. I am only trying to talk to you about a situation. Now let me answer your post.
Why not give blacks tax exemption. We made them slaves.
No, they were promised a lot of things, but never got it. Tax exemptions though is completely different than what was promised but never given to Natives.
Why not give Japanese people tax exemption. We put them in camps.
awww but we did give the people in camps money to make up for our mistake. Basically how slavery reperations argument came about. Once the U.S. gave teh Japanese money, then blacks started asking for money with slavery. Back then it was a justified argument because the effects of slavery was still felt in the black community, and racism was running wild.
Why not give iraqi americans tax exemption. We are killing iraqis in iraq right now.
We are at war with Iraqis. This happens through out history
Why not give vietnamese americans tax exemption. We killed tons of them in vietnam.
That was a war. Though we did take many Vietnamese into our country, and gave them refugee money to start a new life here.
This is the main reason why we get tax exempts, NATIVES LIVE IN RESERVATION IN THEIR OWN LITTLE COUNTRIES. Peep game. Each reservation is treated like it's own country. Many years ago it was done by the U.S. to keep the Natives weak. If they are in little reservations, as their own country, then they cannot join together and fight back against the U.S. It was perfect, divide and conquer. They gave the Natives their own little nations, completely sovereign from the rest of the country. Back then, they left the Natives in the most unfertal, unwanted land they can find. To be human, they gave the Natives food, so they can live, and threaten the life of any Native willing to leave. Here's the funny part though. About 15 years ago, in California, one Native reservation on the way to Las Vegas thought that since they have their own rules, why don't they legalize gambling, so that when people are on their way to Vegas, they see a casino in California, and get some business. It was a way so that the Natives can start supporting ourselves. We didn't know we'd make this much money. But it's a way so that we can finally have an income in our own little tribes, technically little nations, and support ourselves. We are proud people, many natives hated the fact that the U.S. gave us our food, and took our land and treated us like babies because we couldn't we couldn't take care of ourselves. Our men in the reservation were ruined, our kids became out of control, we as a people were reduced to being a depended on U.S. society. After over 500 years of struggle against the white man, we finally have a way to take care of ourselves, support our people, build better schools on our reservation, and allow our people to live a better life. We are our own little country, remember that. Other than the aid that the U.S. gives us, we don't get much from tax money. Our roads for years were messed up, our schools were shitty, our houses were shacks. It was our money made from casinos that paid for bettering our live. So We take care of ourselves, not the U.S., so why should a reservation pay taxes. After being treated like shit for hundreds of years, we finally find a way to support ourselves, and you want that too. Fuck that!
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^^^
Native Americans have been getting screwed from the day Columbus stepped foot on America when his dumb ass thought it was India. I agree... peeps need to stop calling them Indians. Fuck Columbus... he massacred, pilaged, raped an entire people and he gets his own bitch ass holiday... fuck that fool. >:(
(http://homepage.mac.com/eduardojrizo/ozir/neverforgetflag.jpg)
So you're telling me that if you were on that boat in 1492 that you would've known that it wasn't India? Columbus like every other explorer was a merciless thug, but he wasn't dumb. A lot of the massacre has to be blamed on the monsters that came with him on the boats, not that Columbus is innocent.
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I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
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I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
I don't care for the holiday either way, but he did discover America for the Europeans, as far as the story goes. Europeans would have figured out the world was round after the enlightenment any way, but Columbus was the first to proclaim it in Europe at that time, and he is credited for his idea.
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^^^
Native Americans have been getting screwed from the day Columbus stepped foot on America when his dumb ass thought it was India. I agree... peeps need to stop calling them Indians. Fuck Columbus... he massacred, pilaged, raped an entire people and he gets his own bitch ass holiday... fuck that fool. >:(
Yeah, because Indians had so much going for them before he came? Columbus brought civilization to the West.
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I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
I don't care for the holiday either way, but he did discover America for the Europeans, as far as the story goes. Europeans would have figured out the world was round after the enlightenment any way, but Columbus was the first to proclaim it in Europe at that time, and he is credited for his idea.
first off, the Greeks discovered the world was round. Any European that thought the world was flat was more than likely a backwoods country European. The only problem was that people were afriad to travel around the world, for fear of the unknown. There was rumored to be monsters and whatnot. Also, how big the world was, was also misjudged. They thought that if the world was round, it was only the world that they knew. They did not think that there was room for a whole 'nother world. To even further the thought of Columbus not discovering America, even for the Europeans, Vikings have been trading with Natives in Canada for hundreds of years before Columbus. Wit Columbue though, is his sailing came to find a short cut to India, and was funded by the newly freed Spain. Spain had been under Moore rule for 700 years, and was freed in 1492. Their first big mission was to find a short cut to India.
Yeah, because Indians had so much going for them before he came? Columbus brought civilization to the West.
you ever heard of the great Empires of the Americas. Inca, Mexica, and Mayan. Basically these Empires were great societies, and they were all advanced in math. The Mexica (Aztec) were advanced in math, holding many secrets that European scholors had been looking for to complete calculus, and other advanced math. The Inca build great buildings in the mountains, and were on their way to having a really advanced Empire, and the Mayan Empire had many great temples and buildings as well. The Iroquois did not have an empire, in fact they had a government very simular to the one the United States has now, mainly because the U.S. took many ideas from the Iroquois to set up their democracy, mainly dealing the with states, and how each state is ran, yet their is a central federal government. The Iroquois were another great society, that with time would have produced many great things. All these tribes had great potental. So don't believe what you see on TV, we were advanced.
Yeah, Cortez and the gang should of just finished the job IMO. Forgive my comments I just am not a big fan of Natives.
you don't have to be. Many white people, even to this day aren't, and they are seen as heros. John Wayne hated Natives, and real life heros that hate indians include Andrew Jackson, General Custer, almost every U.S. settler that moved west, and every European conquor who wanted to gain riches for his country.
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first off, the Greeks discovered the world was round. Any European that thought the world was flat was more than likely a backwoods country European. The only problem was that people were afriad to travel around the world, for fear of the unknown. There was rumored to be monsters and whatnot. Also, how big the world was, was also misjudged. They thought that if the world was round, it was only the world that they knew. They did not think that there was room for a whole 'nother world. To even further the thought of Columbus not discovering America, even for the Europeans, Vikings have been trading with Natives in Canada for hundreds of years before Columbus. Wit Columbue though, is his sailing came to find a short cut to India, and was funded by the newly freed Spain. Spain had been under Moore rule for 700 years, and was freed in 1492. Their first big mission was to find a short cut to India.
Spain wasnt newly "freed" in 1492 they just put the finishing touches on what was already a beatin "Al-Andulus".
you ever heard of the great Empires of the Americas. Inca, Mexica, and Mayan. Basically these Empires were great societies, and they were all advanced in math. The Mexica (Aztec) were advanced in math, holding many secrets that European scholors had been looking for to complete calculus, and other advanced math. The Inca build great buildings in the mountains, and were on their way to having a really advanced Empire, and the Mayan Empire had many great temples and buildings as well. The Iroquois did not have an empire, in fact they had a government very simular to the one the United States has now, mainly because the U.S. took many ideas from the Iroquois to set up their democracy, mainly dealing the with states, and how each state is ran, yet their is a central federal government. The Iroquois were another great society, that with time would have produced many great things. All these tribes had great potental. So don't believe what you see on TV, we were advanced.
Ummm no.. they were wayyyy behind the europeans in technology. I guess some of their concepts of government were semi-advanced but they certainly didn't put any of their ideas to good use.
you don't have to be. Many white people, even to this day aren't, and they are seen as heros. John Wayne hated Natives, and real life heros that hate indians include Andrew Jackson, General Custer, almost every U.S. settler that moved west, and every European conquor who wanted to gain riches for his country.
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you ever heard of the great Empires of the Americas. Inca, Mexica, and Mayan. Basically these Empires were great societies, and they were all advanced in math. The Mexica (Aztec) were advanced in math, holding many secrets that European scholors had been looking for to complete calculus, and other advanced math. The Inca build great buildings in the mountains, and were on their way to having a really advanced Empire, and the Mayan Empire had many great temples and buildings as well. The Iroquois did not have an empire, in fact they had a government very simular to the one the United States has now, mainly because the U.S. took many ideas from the Iroquois to set up their democracy, mainly dealing the with states, and how each state is ran, yet their is a central federal government. The Iroquois were another great society, that with time would have produced many great things. All these tribes had great potental. So don't believe what you see on TV, we were advanced.
Ummm no.. they were wayyyy behind the europeans in technology. I guess some of their concepts of government were semi-advanced but they certainly didn't put any of their ideas to good use.
When Spanish troops first saw the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlan in 1519, they could not believe their eyes. The beautiful city was built on an island in the middle of Lake Texcoco and was linked to the mountainous mainland by raised roads. To the soldiers, the towers, temples, and lakes in Tenochtitlan must have seemed like something from a dream. As shown in the illustration below, the Aztec temples were built in the form of pyramids.
(http://www.mts.net/~lsisco/lguxwidell.gif)
The city of Tenochtitlan, which was on the site of present-day Mexico city, was larger than any in Spain. Its markets were visited by 50,000 customers each day. The markets' stores were bulging with the rich products of the advanced Aztec civilization. A court of judges remained in session at the markets to peacefully settle disputes that arose between buyers and sellers.
To help keep accurate accounts for their extensive commerce, the Aztec had developed an efficient system of numerals and arithmetic. Aztec numerals were of two types. For commercial uses, the numerals were made up of dots, vertical strokes, and a zero symbol. For other occasions, more decorative numerals were used. Although the concepts of place value and a number base of 20 had been borrowed from the earlier Maya and Olmec Native Americans, the numerals were distinctly Aztec. For example, a small ear of corn was used for the zero symbol. Corn, or maize, was the material base of most Central American civilizations. Its use as the zero symbol shows how important the concept was to the Aztec.
Among the applications of Aztec mathematics, the records that registered land ownership were of special importance. Land records gave the boundaries, the area, and the market value of property. The Aztec government used these records to calculate the amount of tax that the owners had to pay.
Recently, comparisons were made between the Aztec land records and records of the same farms that were drawn up by the Spanish conquerors. Although Spain was a leader in European science and mathematics, the Aztec records were more accurate. This may be because the Aztec unit of area, the square quahuitl, was reliable and did not change from farm to farm. The caballeria, the Spanish unit of area, varied considerably, perhaps for political purposes. In addition, perhaps the Aztec had more practice in planning cities and building pyramids that required accurate measurements.
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Impressive but when I think it took 200 men to conquer all that it just seems... like a waste.
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I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
I don't care for the holiday either way, but he did discover America for the Europeans, as far as the story goes. Europeans would have figured out the world was round after the enlightenment any way, but Columbus was the first to proclaim it in Europe at that time, and he is credited for his idea.
first off, the Greeks discovered the world was round. Any European that thought the world was flat was more than likely a backwoods country European. The only problem was that people were afriad to travel around the world, for fear of the unknown. There was rumored to be monsters and whatnot. Also, how big the world was, was also misjudged. They thought that if the world was round, it was only the world that they knew. They did not think that there was room for a whole 'nother world. To even further the thought of Columbus not discovering America, even for the Europeans, Vikings have been trading with Natives in Canada for hundreds of years before Columbus. Wit Columbue though, is his sailing came to find a short cut to India, and was funded by the newly freed Spain. Spain had been under Moore rule for 700 years, and was freed in 1492. Their first big mission was to find a short cut to India.
Yeah I know all about the Greeks, I am one. I never get to listen to anything else but the Greeks this, the Greeks that. What I don't get is that the word Greek is a deragatory term made up by the Romans after they conquered Greece (or the Hellenic Union, what ever you prefer). To call a me a Greek isn't much different than calling a black guy a nigger. Well anyway, I just thought it was funny that Greeks accept it with out any type of arguments. I guess after 2000 years of slavery, from one ruler to another, they got used to it.
As for your statement. Greek culture and studies were not present in the 1400s. The Enlightenment didn't happen yet, and the Greek documents were not yet presented to Spain, England, or France. The Greek that actually measured the circumference of the Earth, I think his name was Eratosthenes, 39,300 km is what he got, the actual number is 40,075.16 km. That's pretty close when using shadows and light, and a hell of a mathematical mathod. To be only 700 kms off is amazing. But this was not known to the Europeans. You must remember that during his time The Muslims still had rule over all the Greek land and documents. Greece didn't actually become liberated until the 1800s, but the Europeans gained access to the Greek documents before that. Rome had all that knowledge, but it was taken over too, mid first milenium, and when the Frankish Kings and such took over Rome,they didn't bother keeping around any educational material. You can only imagine how much further Science and Math would be today, if it didn't take a 1000 year break in the western world. The bottom line is, it was not comon knowlegde to Europeans that the worl was round. Remember, these were the dark ages.
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I agree with you, but I don't agree with having a holiday in his honor because he "discovered" America... Peeps were already here!
I don't care for the holiday either way, but he did discover America for the Europeans, as far as the story goes. Europeans would have figured out the world was round after the enlightenment any way, but Columbus was the first to proclaim it in Europe at that time, and he is credited for his idea.
first off, the Greeks discovered the world was round. Any European that thought the world was flat was more than likely a backwoods country European. The only problem was that people were afriad to travel around the world, for fear of the unknown. There was rumored to be monsters and whatnot. Also, how big the world was, was also misjudged. They thought that if the world was round, it was only the world that they knew. They did not think that there was room for a whole 'nother world. To even further the thought of Columbus not discovering America, even for the Europeans, Vikings have been trading with Natives in Canada for hundreds of years before Columbus. Wit Columbue though, is his sailing came to find a short cut to India, and was funded by the newly freed Spain. Spain had been under Moore rule for 700 years, and was freed in 1492. Their first big mission was to find a short cut to India.
Yeah I know all about the Greeks, I am one. I never get to listen to anything else but the Greeks this, the Greeks that. What I don't get is that the word Greek is a deragatory term made up by the Romans after they conquered Greece (or the Hellenic Union, what ever you prefer). To call a me a Greek isn't much different than calling a black guy a nigger. Well anyway, I just thought it was funny that Greeks accept it with out any type of arguments. I guess after 2000 years of slavery, from one ruler to another, they got used to it.
As for your statement. Greek culture and studies were not present in the 1400s. The Enlightenment didn't happen yet, and the Greek documents were not yet presented to Spain, England, or France. The Greek that actually measured the circumference of the Earth, I think his name was Eratosthenes, 39,300 km is what he got, the actual number is 40,075.16 km. That's pretty close when using shadows and light, and a hell of a mathematical mathod. To be only 700 kms off is amazing. But this was not known to the Europeans. You must remember that during his time The Muslims still had rule over all the Greek land and documents. Greece didn't actually become liberated until the 1800s, but the Europeans gained access to the Greek documents before that. Rome had all that knowledge, but it was taken over too, mid first milenium, and when the Frankish Kings and such took over Rome,they didn't bother keeping around any educational material. You can only imagine how much further Science and Math would be today, if it didn't take a 1000 year break in the western world. The bottom line is, it was not comon knowlegde to Europeans that the worl was round. Remember, these were the dark ages.
Yeah i didn't think it was common knowledge the world was round but I wasn't 100% sure so I let it go. I didn't know that about the word "greek" though thats some good knowledge you kickin out. My Fiancees Father is "greek" she always says "Selonic" though. She didnt even understand the word greek initially I thought she was sayin she was part Slavonic! She is actually Arabic/Turkish and her Father is Selonic.
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The word the Romans used was "Greco" or "Greko". You know like in Greco-Roman wrestling. Not many people consider it disrespectfu today because it was so long ago, and by the time Greeks got out of that slavery they were right into another one. But the other slave masters didn't make fun of their name, they put down their God, and I guess the Greeks cared more about Jesus than a name. Greece was never really a unified country any way. The Alexander period didn't last that long, before that it was all states and provinces, and after Alexander it was enslaved. A guy was Athenian, or Spartan. The name of the land was, in Greek is pronounced, "Elatha". The period was called th Hellenistic Period, and a Greek was called a Hellene (in Greek "Elinas"). These words are preset even today. There is no word in Greek that sounds like or means Greece, or Greek.
I've never head of the word "Selonic". You sure you didn't mean "Hellenic"?
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I know Greco that is what I usually call Greeks(I mean no offense) I am Italian. My girlfriend speaks Turkish and Arabic(and of course english) so it might be Greek in one of those languages I will ask when I see her later today(probably turkish). Hellonics ;) are cool in my book. BTW- We are gonna be vacationing to Rhodes in a couple of months you have any suggestions on where to visit?
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I know Greco that is what I usually call Greeks(I mean no offense) I am Italian. My girlfriend speaks Turkish and Arabic(and of course english) so it might be Greek in one of those languages I will ask when I see her later today(probably turkish). Hellonics ;) are cool in my book. BTW- We are gonna be vacationing to Rhodes in a couple of months you have any suggestions on where to visit?
I wouldn't take offense anyway.
I know a lot about Greece because I can't avoid it. My Dad doesn't know how to talk about too many other things. lol. I am not particularly pro Greek though. I have no Greek friends that I'm close with, and I don't really care for Greek North Americans. I haven't been to Greece since 1984 when I was really young. Too young to remember. Sorry, but you're asking the wrong guy about visiting Greece.
Yor Girl is Greek and Turkish? Wow. Every Greek I know hates Turks, because they were the ones that enslaved them for 400 years. I don't care personally, but I really am shocked that her parents' parents' didn't mind.
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Yeah in Turkey it is still a bit frowned upon to have Greek blood but I mean I didn't give a shit. She doesn't come froma Muslim family so I think that helps a lot. She was Orthodox Christian but for me she is in the process of converting so we can get married in the RCC. I am an Italian and are history isn't the best when it comes to Greece but that is the past now most people could care less. Anyway I live in Adana, Turkey right now so Greece isnt too far from here.
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cool... now I am learning something. I love this, I never knew Greek was a disrespectful term. I have friends that are Greek, and they use that term. Since the country is Greece, I thought it was the proper term. Good posting here.
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I'm native american and i live on a reservation.
it's not entirely true that we don't pay taxes. that only applys to businesses owned by natives and operate on the reservation. we still have to pay state and fedaral taxes. also there is a huge gap on the reservation btween the rich and the poor.
if it wasn't for goverment grants i wouldn't be in college. i'd have fuel attendent for my carrer.
the reservation is really lawless but people stay in check.
drugs kept the rez from starving
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cool... now I am learning something. I love this, I never knew Greek was a disrespectful term. I have friends that are Greek, and they use that term. Since the country is Greece, I thought it was the proper term. Good posting here.
Most Greeks don't even know it was a disrespectful term. Ask them why there is no word for Greek or Greece, in Greek that sounds like "greco" or "Greek". They probably won't know. Like I said, there was never a big fuss about it, ever. It has now become hte proper term, but not in te Greek language. Less than 0.0000001% of Greeks would get offended by it. As opposed to "nigger" which would get a rouse out of just about every black person. But if you look back in the history books, you'll find out.
The country is Greece, when it's pronounced in English or Latin, but in Greece it's pronounced "Ea-la-tha". Where is the connection between Greece and Elatha? Some extremists wish to change it to The Hellenic Union, but most Greeks just don't care enough to be bothered by something so small, that happened to these people 2000 years ago. With the adoption of Christianity, getting their original name back became pointless. It'd be like if USA was conquered before the slaves were free, and the blacks ended up winning a revolution after 400 years against the Chinese for example. I could see them embracing the word nigger, because they would have forgotten about the White Man after all those years, just like the Greeks forgot about the Romans.