West Coast Connection Forum

Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 03:32:55 PM

Title: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 03:32:55 PM
This is my first time fasting for the month of Ramadan and I thought it would be appropriate to share my thoughts with ToT posters.

Well, last year I was unable to fast. I was not well disciplined enough. However, this year I'm finding it quite easy. And I have learned a lot. Fasting is helping me to understand how a person who is poor or a person in a third world country feels. Also, during fasting I have not been involved in any fight, physical or verbal. As you may be able to tell, I love debating and discussing politics. However, taking a break from it has helped me to be less tense and frustrated all the time. Therefore fasting has also been good for my health. As well, fasting has made me more appreciative of eating and drinking. Everything tastes much better, and I have been eating healthier so as to avoid problems of greasy food on an empty stomach. As well, I feel as if I have developed a closer relationship with God, and that He is helping me to last through the days of the fast.

Overall, I have found fasting to be an excellent experience, and I recommend it to anyand everyone. Fast for a couple days, maybe 2 or 3. Perhaps you will find it as valuable as I have.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: mauzip on October 28, 2004, 03:51:36 PM
or maybe not :P
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: white Boy on October 28, 2004, 04:46:58 PM
what do u mean by fasting.. not eating at all???
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 04:50:14 PM
what do u mean by fasting.. not eating at all???

I don't eat or drink anything from the time the sun rises until the sun sets completely. So around 7:30 AM to 6:30 PM.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: white Boy on October 28, 2004, 04:54:31 PM
1) i think its unessesary torture of the body
2) id probly get a migrane some time throught and maybe even pass out
3) if it was a weekend... its be easier casue id just wake up at like 3.
4) ive done this before.. not intentionaly.. ive went like close to 20 hours without eating anything...
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 05:02:49 PM
1) i think its unessesary torture of the body
2) id probly get a migrane some time throught and maybe even pass out
3) if it was a weekend... its be easier casue id just wake up at like 3.
4) ive done this before.. not intentionaly.. ive went like close to 20 hours without eating anything...

LOL @ unnecessary torture. I was surprised how easy it is, I don't find it too hard. The point of doing it is to understand other people's suffering, but you won't pass out. Come on. I work morning shifts sometimes, and I've had no problem waking up at 6 Am, working 7Am - 3PM and then still not eating or drinking anything until the sun goes down.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: mauzip on October 28, 2004, 05:59:48 PM
Fasting is very unhealthy. Why would I do that to myself? I have self respect :)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: white Boy on October 28, 2004, 06:03:50 PM
no seriosuly..  there have been time i didnt eat breakfast.. i would wake up at like 8.. but like 2-3 i cant even think.. and in i dunno about passing out.. but its not a healthy feeling... but i do see what u mean.. but wouldnt it be better to just donate money.. then to suffer yourself.. so you suffer for a day.. then tomorow you go back to your regular lifestyle.. you acknowledge their pain.. but nothing has changed by you fasting.. in your head you know how not good it feels not to eat for a day.. but u dont really have to do it to know...
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 06:06:33 PM
no seriosuly..  there have been time i didnt eat breakfast.. i would wake up at like 8.. but like 2-3 i cant even think.. and in i dunno about passing out.. but its not a healthy feeling... but i do see what u mean.. but wouldnt it be better to just donate money.. then to suffer yourself.. so you suffer for a day.. then tomorow you go back to your regular lifestyle.. you acknowledge their pain.. but nothing has changed by you fasting.. in your head you know how not good it feels not to eat for a day.. but u dont really have to do it to know...

I don't know how you can have such a hard time not eating. I haven't eaten breakfast regularly for over 5 years. Eating as a neccesity is overrated. Plus I don't just fast for a day, it's a whole month.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 06:08:26 PM
Fasting is very unhealthy.

Really?

http://www.submission.org/ramadan-health.html

Most Muslims do not fast because of medical benefits but because it has been ordained to them in the Quran.  The medical benefits of fasting are as a result of fasting.  Fasting in general has been used in medicine for medical reasons including weight management, for rest of the digestive tract and for lowering lipids.  There are many adverse effects of total fasting as well as so-called crash diets.  Islamic fasting is different from such diet plans because in Ramadan fasting, there is no malnutrition or inadequate calorie intake.  The caloric intake of Muslims during Ramadan is at or slightly below the national requirement guidelines. In addition, the fasting in Ramadan is voluntarily taken and is not a prescribed imposition from the physician.

Ramadan is a month of self-regulation and self-training, with the hope that this training will last beyond the end of Ramadan.  If the lessons learned during Ramadan, whether in terms of dietary intake or righteousness, are carried on after Ramadan, it is beneficial for one's entire life.  Moreover, the type of food taken during Ramadan does not have any selective criteria of crash diets such as those which are protein only or fruit only type diets.  Everything that is permissible is taken in moderate quantities.

The only difference between Ramadan and total fasting is the timing of the food; during Ramadan, we basically miss lunch and take an early breakfast and do not eat until dusk.  Abstinence from water during this period is not bad at all and in fact, it causes concentration of all fluids within the body, producing slight dehydration.  The body has its own water conservation mechanism; in fact, it has been shown that slight dehydration and water conservation, at least in plant life, improve their longevity.

The physiological effect of fasting includes lower of blood sugar, lowering of cholesterol and lowering of the systolic blood pressure.  In fact, Ramadan fasting would be an ideal recommendation for treatment of mild to moderate, stable, non-insulin diabetes, obesity and essential hypertension.  In 1994 the first International Congress on "Health and Ramadan", held in Casablanca, entered 50 research papers from all over the world, from Muslim and non-Muslim researchers who have done extensive studies on the medical ethics of fasting.  While improvement in many medical conditions was noted; however, in no way did fasting worsen any patients' health or baseline medical condition.  On the other hand, patients who are suffering from severe diseases, whether diabetes or coronary artery disease, kidney stones, etc., are exempt from fasting and should not try to fast.

There are psychological effects of fasting as well.  There is a peace and tranquility for those who fast during the month of Ramadan.  Personal hostility is at a minimum, and the crime rate decreases.  This psychological improvement could be related to better stabilization of blood glucose during fasting as hypoglycemia after eating, aggravates behavior changes.

Recitation of the Quran not only produces a tranquility of heart and mind, but improves the memory.  Therefore, I encourage my Muslim patients to fast in the month of Ramadan, but they must do it under medical supervision.  Healthy adult Muslims should not fear becoming weak by fasting, but instead it should improve their health and stamina.

Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 06:10:10 PM
And if you choose to ignore that because it was written from a religious person's aspect:

http://www.healthpromoting.com/Articles/articles/benefit.htm

The Benefits of Fasting
 

By Alan Goldhamer, D.C.

 

IN THIS ARTICLE YOU WILL learn about some of the tremendous benefits that can be derived from a properly conducted fast.  When properly utilized, fasting is a safe and effective means of maximizing the body’s self-healing capacities.  The results can be truly amazing. Before going on to describe some of the many advantages of fasting, let’s define it.  Fasting is the complete abstinence from all substances except pure water, in an environment of total rest.  Let’s also keep in mind that fasting is only one part of the total health-supporting program we call Natural Hygiene.

            Health results from healthful living. No matter how successful a fasting experience might be, it needs to be followed by a consistently healthy lifestyle.  The requirements of health must continue to be provided — especially in the areas of diet, environment, activity and psychology.

            The examples that follow are just a few of the many beneficial uses of fasting.

 

An aid in transition

During the past seven years I’ve worked with thousands of patients from all over the world who had a wide variety of disorders and health concerns.  A great many of these patients required a period of supervised fasting to achieve their health goals.  Virtually all of them needed to make lifestyle changes to achieve improved health.  Fasting made the transition easier!

            My observation is that the best motivating factor in helping people adopt healthful living practices is often the positive reinforcement that comes with feeling good and healthy.

            Fasting, for as few as five days to as many as 40 days, will often dramatically shorten the time it takes for  an individual to make the transition from a conventional diet and lifestyle (with all the associated addictions, pains, fatigue and disease) to the independent and energetic state associated with healthful living.

            People who undertake a  fast in a supervised setting, tend to achieve health more quickly than those who attempt changes without a fast.  The intensive health education, plus the emotional support they receive during their stay, result in increased compliance with dietary and lifestyle recommendations.

 

A speedy recovery

When individuals try to make major dietary changes without the benefit of a fasting experience, they often become frustrated.  The transition to a healthful eating pattern can make you feel sick.  Symptoms such as fatigue, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain and bloating, joint pain, headaches, skin rashes, irritability, depression, etc. are just a few of the common problems that can arise as the body attempts to eliminate toxins, metabolic byproducts, etc., and adjust physiologically to a health promoting diet.

            It is difficult to get people to practice new healthful living habits for long unless they begin to experience some benefits quickly.  Changes that may take months (or even years) with careful eating may occur much more quickly if a properly supervised fast is utilized.  This is an important consideration because once people begin to realize their health potential, they become a likely candidate for a lifelong commitment to healthful living.

 

Overcoming addictions

Addictions to drugs such as alcohol, cocaine, nicotine and caffeine are examples where fasting can dramatically reduce the often protracted withdrawal symptoms that prevent many people from becoming drug-free.  Most people are surprised at how easy it is to quit smoking or drinking with the help of fasting.

 

Uterine fibroid tumors

Fasting can often be especially important in situations where drugs or surgery have been recommended.  When uterine fibroid tumors contribute to pain and excess bleeding, a hysterectomy — removal of the uterus — is often recommended.  A proper fast will often dramatically reduce the size and effect of these tumors.  I have treated numerous women who have been able to successfully avoid hysterectomy using conservative methods.  Ovarian cysts and cervical dysplasia also often respond favorably.

 

Back and neck problems

Back and neck pain are remarkably responsive to conservative care.  In my institution I utilize fasting, rest and exercise, improved posture and body use, and when appropriate, chiropractic manipulation and physical therapy.  It is interesting to note that often patients with chronic pain who have received extensive treatment, including drugs, surgery and manipulation, will experience dramatic improvement through the use of fasting.

 

A case history

I recently treated a young man, a Natural Hygienist since birth, who had been in a severe automobile accident four years ago.  He had suffered with constant neck pain and headaches since the accident.  His greatest concern was his tendency to pass out unexpectedly.  Apparently the dysfunction in his neck had interfered with the autonomic portion of his nervous system altering blood flow to his brain.

            After a period of four weeks of care, which included a fast, followed by careful re-feeding and, in his case, spinal manipulative therapy, this individual made an excellent response.  At his three month follow-up he reported complete absence of neck pain and headaches and had not felt faint or passed out since his stay at the Center.

 

Cardiovascular disease

Most cases of cardiovascular disease are also responsive to conservative care.  In 154 consecutive cases of high blood pressure [hypertension] that I have fasted, 151 (98%) have been able to achieve and maintain normal blood pressure without the use of medications. [Complete details of this study will appear in an upcoming issue of Health Science.]

            Angina and intermittent claudication are examples of conditions that will often respond rapidly to fasting.  Often patients can achieve freedom from pain and medications within a few days or weeks.  It is not unusual to see cholesterol levels drop as much as 100 points with diligent effort.

 

Gastrointestinal disorders

Disturbances of the gastrointestinal system — including esophagitis, gastritis, colitis, constipation, bloating, and the symptoms associated with so-called “candidiasis” — usually respond well to conservative care.

            My most recent case of gastrointestinal disturbance was a young woman with severe colitis [inflammation of the colon].  She reported severe, constant bleeding through the rectum.  She said that despite continual medical treatment with cortisone, implants, and a wide range of other medication, she had bleeding with every bowel movement for eight years.  Her physician had explained that surgery would have to be performed.

            After we had eliminated her medications, a period of fasting was undertaken.  Within a week, the constant pain was resolved. By the 10th day, the passing of blood and mucus had stopped.  After two weeks of fasting we began to carefully feed her.  Her bowel movements were blood-free from the first.  At her three-month follow-up she reported feeling great and completely free of any significant bleeding or problems.

 

Diabetes

Many chronic degenerative conditions respond well to fasting and a Natural Hygiene lifestyle.  Diabetes is no exception.

            Working with diabetic patients is very satisfying because the consequences of the disease are so devastating and the results with conservative care are usually so dramatic.  Most adult onset diabetics can be brought under control and freed from the use of insulin and other medication through the use of fasting and a carefully followed diet and lifestyle program.  Such a program will allow most diabetics to achieve a high level of function and the ability to maintain normal sugar levels without medications.

 

There are exceptions

Not everyone is a candidate for fasting. There are a number of factors to consider before a fast is recommended.  My procedure is to first review the patient’s medical history and perform a comprehensive physical examination including appropriate laboratory or specialized diagnostic tests.  I then review my findings with the patient and make appropriate recommendations.  These may include dietary and lifestyle recommendations.  These may include dietary and lifestyle changes, exercise programs, etc., and, when indicated, fasting.  When fasting is indicated, patients stay at my institution.

            Not every individual or every condition will respond to conservative treatment.  Occasionally medical care may be necessary.  When a medical consultation or treatment is indicated, the safest methods available should be utilized.

 

Where to fast

With the possible exception of very short fasts in acute disease — such as a cold, fever, etc.— all fasting should be undertaken in an institution under the direct supervision of a doctor trained in fasting supervision.  A certified member of the International Association of Hygienic Physicians would by far be your best choice.

            Fasting in an institution offers several advantages.  The most important is the constant availability of an experienced doctor to guide and advise you.  Most institutions have an educational program designed to help you better understand Natural Hygiene — the science of health.  The benefits of being in a clean, quiet and emotionally supportive environment should not be underestimated.

            In addition, a timely and proper termination of each fast is critical to the long-term success of the patient.  Fasting under the supervision of a trained, qualified doctor is your best assurance of a well-conducted, beneficial fasting experience.

 

A Case Study:

Chronic gastrointestinal disorder

“A woman came to the Center recently who had suffered chronic constipation for more than 20 years.  She complained that she had not had a single spontaneous bowel movement during that time without the assistance of enemas, colonics or laxatives.

            “She fasted with us for a period of 12 days, during which time she experienced mild discomfort and referred low back pain.  On the fifth day of feeding after the fast, she was having spontaneous, normally formed bowel movements — and she had continued to have them since.

            “The long-term follow-up for people who stay on the Natural Hygiene dietary program is excellent.  Chronic constipation is definitely a problem that people can learn to live without.”

                                                                                                      Alan Goldhamer, D.C.

                       

A natural process

“Fasting, or the abstinence from food, is a means used in nature by all creatures from the beginning of time.  Either by instinct or intelligence this means has been used to assist the body to relieve itself from discomfort, pain and disease.

            “Regulatory and reparative processes of the body are given unimpeded encouragement by the temporary omission of food.  No other form of health care can boast the rewarding and gratifying results in the elimination of disease and the restoration of health.

            “Fasting, once considered a fad, has gained acceptance not only by a constantly increasing segment of society — and has also earned the stamp of approval by many in the scientific community.

            “Under qualified and experienced supervision, fasting is the greatest gift which can be given to an overburdened, sick body without benefit of any other form of therapy or treatment.”

                                                                                                      William Esser, N.D., D.C.

 

 

An empowering rest

“Fasting is simply a process of deep physiological rest.  This rest period helps you rebuild functioning power and recover from the energy dissipation caused by hectic daily schedules and abusive living habits.

            “When outside stressors, dietary and therapeutic influences are eliminated during the fasting state, fasting reveals the baseline status of your body.  This enables you to become more sensitive and connected to your body.  This connection fosters a greater awareness of the instinctive biological and emotional requirements that are essential for the maintenance of health and wholeness.”

                                                                                              Frank Sabatino, D.C., Ph.D.

 

Unfounded fears about fasting

“Unfounded fear is a peculiar state of disease within the imagination, arising largely out of a lack of knowledge.

            “If we are slaves to unfounded fears, we are also slaves to beliefs and practices and action which are inconsistent with our well-being.  So it is a matter of necessity that we understand fasting and all its facets if we are to overcome the fears that are associated with it.

            “Many people attempt to solve the problems of life, the distresses of the body and the anxieties of the mind with food and drugs. They have great fear about not eating because they have experienced the headaches, the weakness and distress they associate with it, and they are convinced that food and drugs are the answer to their problems.

            “How can you convince someone that going further without food is a matter of necessity for the recovery of his health?  Only through knowledge and enough suffering to change his attitudes.

            “The best way to dispel unfounded fear about fasting is with knowledge — knowledge that breeds confidence, confidence that engenders beliefs, and beliefs that result in correct action.”

                                                                                                             D.J. Scott, D.C.

 

Making wise decisions

“Not everyone is a good candidate for fasting.  Many factors need to be considered before a fast is undertaken.  Not every condition will respond optimally to fasting and conservative care alone.  Occasionally, medical care may be necessary.       

            “At the Center we have established good working relationships with some of  California’s best specialists.  When a medical consultation or treatment is indicated, the safest methods available should always be utilized.”

                                                                                                         Jennifer Marano, D.C.

 

 

Heightening your awareness

“A wonderful thing about fasting is that it puts an interval between the behavior that you are accustomed to and the behavior that you aspire to.  We tend to be creatures of habit, and the ways that we are accustomed to eating and living feel as natural to us as breathing.  That is why it is so difficult for people to stop bad habits.  But fasting brings your present lifestyle to an abrupt halt.  It gives you an opportunity to pause, reflect and decide how you are going to conduct your life afterwards.  This enables you to make a break with your past and set off in a new, more positive direction.

            “There is nothing routine about eating after a fast.  Each meal is a celebration.  After fasting, you tend to be very conscious about what you are eating, and why.  Fasting heightens your awareness, as well as your appreciation for food.  By fasting, we learn to eat with reverence.

            “It is the non-doing aspect of fasting that enables us to make behavioral stopping and pausing and interrupting our usual patterns, as we learn to take more conscious control of ourselves.

            “There is no better way to stop a vicious cycle of self-destructive behavior than by fasting.”

                                                                                                         Ralph C. Cinque, D.C.

Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: mauzip on October 28, 2004, 06:18:47 PM
uh... i barely ever read these long articles... what i do wanna say though, is that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. at least, that's what someone said on tv a few months back.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 06:21:33 PM
uh... i barely ever read these long articles... what i do wanna say though, is that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. at least, that's what someone said on tv a few months back.

That's such a cliche. I am more aware since I stopped eating breakfast, I find it makes me.... what's the word I'm looking for.... loagy?
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Lincoln on October 28, 2004, 06:22:31 PM
And with fasting, it IS possible to eat breakfast. People can eat before the sun comes up and it doesn't rise until like 7:30  or 8.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on October 28, 2004, 11:11:29 PM
1) i think its unessesary torture of the body
2) id probly get a migrane some time throught and maybe even pass out
3) if it was a weekend... its be easier casue id just wake up at like 3.
4) ive done this before.. not intentionaly.. ive went like close to 20 hours without eating anything...

Seems like you have a migrane anyways...

Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: white Boy on October 29, 2004, 03:28:23 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on October 29, 2004, 04:47:52 PM
::)

Rolling your eyes isn't going to help your migrane or whatever you want to call your lack of intelligence
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: DAYUM on October 29, 2004, 05:30:47 PM
1. if i dont eat i feel weak as hell and i my stomach feels empty
2. i smoke too much and ill get the munchies
3. i dont eat breakfast anyways im not much of a morning person
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on November 25, 2004, 02:01:40 AM
Jews fast once a year on Yom Kippur to ask God for forgiveness and rid themselves of their sins from the past year...
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: acbaylove on November 25, 2004, 03:29:45 AM
Sorry man but since i know this topic turned into a diss, i didnt read it at all. I just wanna make you a question, since your point was to share your experience with us. How do you feel now? I got respect for Ramadan (i mean i dont do it, and i will never, but it's your life, and i respect it). Dont quote me Coran or books, i wanna know about you. Did you understood something by this experience? Was it worth is? And how it was phisically? And, the last question, why you do it? (i mean muslims, why you do it?). Tnx.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 05:08:20 AM
sometimes I get the expression that people think their god don't wants them to enjoy life.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 05:54:13 AM
sometimes I get the expression that people think their god don't wants them to enjoy life.

Fasting isn't something for the weak and narrow-minded, so you wouldn't understand.

To answer Antonio's questions...

I don't feel any "different" now, it's something you get used to when you do it for so many years. When I was younger, I fasted because it was part of my religion and my parents kind of expected me to. However, as I got a little older and realized a lot of things, the concept of fasting made a lot of sense even in a non-religious sense. It teaches you self-control and restraint. It's harder at the beginning, but as time goes on, it gets easier and actually becomes ordinary. Personally, I don't find fasting physically challenging, but there are some who do. The only time I can remember it being difficult was when I would have football or soccer practice/games while fasting. A person with hardships, be it personal or illness-related doesn't need to fast; as a matter of fact, when you're ill you're not supposed to fast at all. To answer your question of why muslims fast, it is basically a way to put yourself in the position of someone who is poor and doesn't have food. You basically feel their "pain" in a lesser extent. While I fasted, several things actually came to my mind. For example, when it was time to break my fast, I thought about those people who can't afford food or not enough of it, and thought about how they not just refrain from eating during the day, but can't even eat at night (like I do) simply because they don't have the access to the food. I "could" eat whenever I want to because the food is right in front of me, but they can't because they have no food. It's really something that makes you think while you fast. Also, I do this for 30 days out of the year, they do it all year long. As part of the Islamic religion, every Muslim who is able to, must share some of his income/wealth with someone in need. It's one of the fundamentals. And, at the end of Ramadan, is one of those times when every Muslim donates money to these people in need. People send money abroad to Muslims living in poor conditions. So, basically I put myself in someone else's shoes to feel what they go through (not to the same degree), and then I do something to help someone who goes through it. I really don't see how people can make retarded, narrow-minded comments like "god doesn't want them to enjoy life", when in fact, you're doing something to help someone. Anyways, I hope I answered your questions.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 05:58:01 AM
By the way 7even, since I'm known to teach/school you peeps in TOT, let me inform you that "impression" is the word you were looking for, not "expression". See, you always learn something new from me... sometimes you just decide to learn the hard way of arguing until you're proven wrong.  :)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 06:36:12 AM
Lol, I know, don't know why I wrote expression. Anyway.. is fasting supposed to be fun? Is not drinking alcohol, not taking drugs and not having sex before marriage and stuff like that, supposed to be fun? I don't think so. But that's what religion wants you to do more or less. Does God hate us all, or what?
Religious people can be so contradicting sometimes...
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 06:48:46 AM
Lol, I know, don't know why I wrote expression. Anyway.. is fasting supposed to be fun? Is not drinking alcohol, not taking drugs and not having sex before marriage and stuff like that, supposed to be fun? I don't think so. But that's what religion wants you to do more or less. Does God hate us all, or what?
Religious people can be so contradicting sometimes...

WTF? What does fun have anything to do with it? Is going to the dentist supposed to be fun?

By the way, I don't drink, smoke, or take drugs, but guess what? It's my choice. Personally, I don't feel the need to do any of those to have fun. I bone bitches though. So you can see that religion is not why I choose or don't choose to do certain things. 

Seriously, that has to be one of your dumbest posts, even in your standards. Just because something isn't fun, doesn't mean it was created to prevent people from having fun. I'm assuming school, doctors, cops, courts, etc are all in place to prevent people from having fun. Idiot. Religious people can be contradicting? Not once have I contradicted myself, yet you, a "non-religious" person, have proven yourself to lack common sense, logic, and any sort of intelligence with 1 post.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 06:55:44 AM
Lol, I know, don't know why I wrote expression.

This is just one of the things I/you "don't know why you wrote". There's plenty more; this just happens to be one instance where it was easier for you to see that you're wrong. Other times I inform you in a similar way, but it just takes you a while to realize it. You should analyze your words more carefully, and maybe it will help you make better judgments (ex: not attempt to unsuccessfully argue me)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 07:16:10 AM
Lol, I know, don't know why I wrote expression. Anyway.. is fasting supposed to be fun? Is not drinking alcohol, not taking drugs and not having sex before marriage and stuff like that, supposed to be fun? I don't think so. But that's what religion wants you to do more or less. Does God hate us all, or what?
Religious people can be so contradicting sometimes...

WTF? What does fun have anything to do with it? Is going to the dentist supposed to be fun?

By the way, I don't drink, smoke, or take drugs, but guess what? It's my choice. Personally, I don't feel the need to do any of those to have fun. I bone bitches though. So you can see that religion is not why I choose or don't choose to do certain things. 

Seriously, that has to be one of your dumbest posts, even in your standards. Just because something isn't fun, doesn't mean it was created to prevent people from having fun. I'm assuming school, doctors, cops, courts, etc are all in place to prevent people from having fun. Idiot. Religious people can be contradicting? Not once have I contradicted myself, yet you, a "non-religious" person, have proven yourself to lack common sense, logic, and any sort of intelligence with 1 post.

Well then tell me what is the point in not drinking for instance. Why? Good it's your choice, lol, whatever makes you sleep at night. Yet I know Muslims who don't drink cause they want to be good muslims. They fuck though, which is contradicting as a motherfucker.
So if religion isnt the reason why you've chosen to do or not to things, how come you're fasting? You aint got no money or what? - and there we are contradicting ourselves again..

Great to act like I said it was created to prevent ppl from having fun because it isnt fun.. that's just twisting it all up in order to sound smart to the retards who won't realize it, just like pointing out typos is. You think I don't notice if someone types necaccaryly instead of necessarily? However, I won't bother making a post just to point it out and ridicule the respective person. You do though, and therefore you think you're so smart. Do you act in real life like that? Cause if you do, I have to assume you ask veterans in wheel-chairs for a race, and when they say no you feel like Maurice Green when he got the 60-metre world record...

Certain rules of religion usually seem to be there in order to prevent people from doing something. Sometimes, it's sensible, like not killing somebody or not stealing or what the hell. Other times, however, I can't see any purpose except preventing people from leading a happy life. Like telling it's bad to have sex unless its only purpose is reproduction, what the hell..
Your weak ass comparisons ... school, doctors, cops, courts ... all have their respective purposes. Like education & helping people. What the hell is the purpose of things like not ever drinking/trying alcohol, not having sex unless youre married, fasting etc if not sticking to principles your religion gave you? And why would your religion say you should do it? Why? I understand why you shouldnt kill dudes and shit, but why the fuck this?
The reason is to limit your fun. Now don't come around with stupid shit like "I can have fun without drugs" or bullshit like this. Why won't jews eat pork? Why won't muslims eat certain meat? Why would buddhists not eat any kind of animals..we all know those animals dont have the souls of former humans or shit like this,  Lol, so why? ... I could go on for years.

Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 07:19:19 AM
Lol, I know, don't know why I wrote expression.

This is just one of the things I/you "don't know why you wrote". There's plenty more; this just happens to be one instance where it was easier for you to see that you're wrong. Other times I inform you in a similar way, but it just takes you a while to realize it. You should analyze your words more carefully, and maybe it will help you make better judgments (ex: not attempt to unsuccessfully argue me)
One funny thing is how you always have to rely on obvious typos like this to make yourself feel better.
But anyway, LoL I must have really got to you with that religion stuff. Disillusioned?  :-\

Just stay out of this thread, if you can't stand criticism on your religion, or in this case religion as such.


HAHA... now you signed off? Already giving up for the moment, and trying to work something out for later?
I'm sure so, since you're obviously not the type of poster who'd log off in such a moment for another reason, you know it, I know it, the whole board knows it.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 07:47:41 AM
LMAO this is way too easy..

Quote
I don't feel any "different" now, it's something you get used to when you do it for so many years. When I was younger, I fasted because it was part of my religion and my parents kind of expected me to. [...]It's harder at the beginning, but as time goes on, it gets easier and actually becomes ordinary. Personally, I don't find fasting physically challenging, but there are some who do. The only time I can remember it being difficult was when I would have football or soccer practice/games while fasting. [...]To answer your question of why muslims fast, it is basically a way to put yourself in the position of someone who is poor and doesn't have food. You basically feel their "pain" in a lesser extent. [...] So, basically I put myself in someone else's shoes to feel what they go through (not to the same degree), and then I do something to help someone who goes through it. I really don't see how people can make retarded, narrow-minded comments like "god doesn't want them to enjoy life", when in fact, you're doing something to help someone.

LoL.. I dont even have to add anything.. why the fuck does your religion want you to FEEL PAIN for christ's sake? So a good muslim is supposed to FEEL PAIN? What more need I say? Anyways, good to know. Seriously, if you don't recognize your contradictions and your hypocrisy you can't be very smart.

Oh... and with fasting, you don't help ANYONE. Poor muslims in the middle-east aren't helped the slightest little bit with dudes like you fasting. What a lame excuse.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: acbaylove on November 25, 2004, 08:02:16 AM
sometimes I get the expression that people think their god don't wants them to enjoy life.

Fasting isn't something for the weak and narrow-minded, so you wouldn't understand.

To answer Antonio's questions...

I don't feel any "different" now, it's something you get used to when you do it for so many years. When I was younger, I fasted because it was part of my religion and my parents kind of expected me to. However, as I got a little older and realized a lot of things, the concept of fasting made a lot of sense even in a non-religious sense. It teaches you self-control and restraint. It's harder at the beginning, but as time goes on, it gets easier and actually becomes ordinary. Personally, I don't find fasting physically challenging, but there are some who do. The only time I can remember it being difficult was when I would have football or soccer practice/games while fasting. A person with hardships, be it personal or illness-related doesn't need to fast; as a matter of fact, when you're ill you're not supposed to fast at all. To answer your question of why muslims fast, it is basically a way to put yourself in the position of someone who is poor and doesn't have food. You basically feel their "pain" in a lesser extent. While I fasted, several things actually came to my mind. For example, when it was time to break my fast, I thought about those people who can't afford food or not enough of it, and thought about how they not just refrain from eating during the day, but can't even eat at night (like I do) simply because they don't have the access to the food. I "could" eat whenever I want to because the food is right in front of me, but they can't because they have no food. It's really something that makes you think while you fast. Also, I do this for 30 days out of the year, they do it all year long. As part of the Islamic religion, every Muslim who is able to, must share some of his income/wealth with someone in need. It's one of the fundamentals. And, at the end of Ramadan, is one of those times when every Muslim donates money to these people in need. People send money abroad to Muslims living in poor conditions. So, basically I put myself in someone else's shoes to feel what they go through (not to the same degree), and then I do something to help someone who goes through it. I really don't see how people can make retarded, narrow-minded comments like "god doesn't want them to enjoy life", when in fact, you're doing something to help someone. Anyways, I hope I answered your questions.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: STILLDRE IS THE GODFATHER on November 25, 2004, 08:13:18 AM
ive done this every year since i was about 10  question to lincon did you convert to islam and how long have you been a muslim
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:09:14 AM
LMAO this is way too easy..

Quote
I don't feel any "different" now, it's something you get used to when you do it for so many years. When I was younger, I fasted because it was part of my religion and my parents kind of expected me to. [...]It's harder at the beginning, but as time goes on, it gets easier and actually becomes ordinary. Personally, I don't find fasting physically challenging, but there are some who do. The only time I can remember it being difficult was when I would have football or soccer practice/games while fasting. [...]To answer your question of why muslims fast, it is basically a way to put yourself in the position of someone who is poor and doesn't have food. You basically feel their "pain" in a lesser extent. [...] So, basically I put myself in someone else's shoes to feel what they go through (not to the same degree), and then I do something to help someone who goes through it. I really don't see how people can make retarded, narrow-minded comments like "god doesn't want them to enjoy life", when in fact, you're doing something to help someone.

LoL.. I dont even have to add anything.. why the fuck does your religion want you to FEEL PAIN for christ's sake? So a good muslim is supposed to FEEL PAIN? What more need I say? Anyways, good to know. Seriously, if you don't recognize your contradictions and your hypocrisy you can't be very smart.

Oh... and with fasting, you don't help ANYONE. Poor muslims in the middle-east aren't helped the slightest little bit with dudes like you fasting. What a lame excuse.

You're obviously not a bright one, so I think I need to have little explanations for everything, since you can't read between the lines or add 2 and 2. First of all, there is a reason why I put quotation marks around the word pain... because I don't actually feel "pain". Also, you take out one line and disregard everything else. You say I don't help anyone? I help myself. I stated that it teaches self-control, restraint, and discipline. Then I help poor Muslims in the Middle East by sharing some of my money. The actual fasting doesn't help them, but what I do after having placed myself in their shoes does. You decided to ignore that part of my statement as well. Looks like the only way you can try to justify your points is by only reading what you want to read. You say "God" doesn't want people to have fun, and I replied by telling you that I don't do the things you consider fun because I choose not to, not because God told me not to. Not only was your statement fuckin' stupid for the reasons mentioned in my previous post, but it also went down the drain with the explanation just given.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:11:43 AM
By the way, I'm not going to blame you for not understanding what it means to feel one's "pain" (especially when I made it clear with quotation marks), since you don't even know the difference between expression and impression. It's not your fault, English is not your native language, so it's all good. It's just dumb of you when you say shit like "I have the expression" and try to argue. Shutting up will work in your benefit.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:32:44 AM
Well then tell me what is the point in not drinking for instance. Why? Good it's your choice, lol, whatever makes you sleep at night. Yet I know Muslims who don't drink cause they want to be good muslims. They fuck though, which is contradicting as a motherfucker.
So if religion isnt the reason why you've chosen to do or not to things, how come you're fasting? You aint got no money or what? - and there we are contradicting ourselves again..

Great to act like I said it was created to prevent ppl from having fun because it isnt fun.. that's just twisting it all up in order to sound smart to the retards who won't realize it, just like pointing out typos is. You think I don't notice if someone types necaccaryly instead of necessarily? However, I won't bother making a post just to point it out and ridicule the respective person. You do though, and therefore you think you're so smart. Do you act in real life like that? Cause if you do, I have to assume you ask veterans in wheel-chairs for a race, and when they say no you feel like Maurice Green when he got the 60-metre world record...

Certain rules of religion usually seem to be there in order to prevent people from doing something. Sometimes, it's sensible, like not killing somebody or not stealing or what the hell. Other times, however, I can't see any purpose except preventing people from leading a happy life. Like telling it's bad to have sex unless its only purpose is reproduction, what the hell..
Your weak ass comparisons ... school, doctors, cops, courts ... all have their respective purposes. Like education & helping people. What the hell is the purpose of things like not ever drinking/trying alcohol, not having sex unless youre married, fasting etc if not sticking to principles your religion gave you? And why would your religion say you should do it? Why? I understand why you shouldnt kill dudes and shit, but why the fuck this?
The reason is to limit your fun. Now don't come around with stupid shit like "I can have fun without drugs" or bullshit like this. Why won't jews eat pork? Why won't muslims eat certain meat? Why would buddhists not eat any kind of animals..we all know those animals dont have the souls of former humans or shit like this,  Lol, so why? ... I could go on for years.

A lot of people choose not to drink simply because there are no real benefits to it. Some find it fun, some don't. However, the fact is that the negative effects of drinking outweigh the positive ones. It inhibits you from thinking in the same that you would if you were sober. It causes some people to make wrong decisions.

You ask why Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. This question has less to do with questioning religion than it does with your ignorance. If you knew anything about religion, the reason why things were outlined the way they are, etc then you wouldn't have to ask questions like this and bash religion. I'm Muslim, so I'll tell you why Muslims don't eat pork. When an animal is slaughtered, vital organs could be damaged, blood could spread throughout the flesh, etc. and Muslims are prohibited from consuming any blood, which is why Muslims consume Halal meat. Halal meat (very similar to Kosher for Jews) is clean because the when meat is Halal, it means the animal was cut across the neck (jugular vein), so this causes a total loss of blood from the animal's body and no organs are injured. Since you're an idiot, I'll inform you that blood contains uric acid which is bad for our health. A pig can't be slaughtered at the neck simply because it doesn't have one... natural anatomy. Also, a pig excretes only 2% of its uric acid, so most of it remains in the body, which is why so many people in the past got sick from eating pork. It has to be very well prepared and thoroughly cooked (as does all meat, but in comparison the uric acid in pigs is a lot higher). It's also a scientific fact that people who consume pork face a greater risk of Rheumatism than people who don't. Any other dumb, ignorant questions?
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:38:35 AM

One funny thing is how you always have to rely on obvious typos like this to make yourself feel better.
But anyway, LoL I must have really got to you with that religion stuff. Disillusioned?  :-\

Just stay out of this thread, if you can't stand criticism on your religion, or in this case religion as such.


HAHA... now you signed off? Already giving up for the moment, and trying to work something out for later?
I'm sure so, since you're obviously not the type of poster who'd log off in such a moment for another reason, you know it, I know it, the whole board knows it.

Now you're trying to make yourself feel better by wrongfully assuming that I signed off because of your posts. If you check, you hadn't made your posts before I signed off. Funny how you act like you know me so well... just because I occasionally son you, doesn't mean you know me...
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:47:47 AM
By the way, the Qu'ran and the teachings of most religions actually go hand in hand with science on a lot of things. Of course, you, being the ignorant person that you are, wouldn't know that. "Religious" people (I'm speaking on behalf of Muslims) knew about a lot of things that scientists barely discovered in the last few centuries..... written in the Qu'ran over 1400 years ago. It took people thousands of years to realize these things, so how is this information in the Qu'ran? One could argue that Muhammed just happened to be a genius, good at guessing, or perhaps they actually were the words of God. It is up to each individual to decide whether they want to BELIEVE it or not, which is why religion is referred to as a BELIEF and is described with the word FAITH. If one doesn't believe it, then he/she doesn't, and nobody forces them to.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 09:50:35 AM
lmao I expected a tough and witty, challenging comeback... what a disappointment, really.

Quote
You say I don't help anyone? I help myself.

if not eating like one usually does helps you, then more power to you fatass.

Quote
Then I help poor Muslims in the Middle East by sharing some of my money.

well, here's the deal:
Quote
The actual fasting doesn't help them


also hilarious:

Guess you don't learn on purpose so you can claim you're the only teacher.. LOL.. otherwise I dont get how you write that:
By the way, I'm not going to blame you for not understanding what it means to feel one's "pain" (especially when I made it clear with quotation marks), since you don't even know the difference between expression and impression. It's not your fault, English is not your native language, so it's all good. It's just dumb of you when you say shit like "I have the expression" and try to argue. Shutting up will work in your benefit.
after I wrote that:
Quote
[...]to sound smart to the retards who won't realize it, just like pointing out typos is. You think I don't notice if someone types necaccaryly instead of necessarily? However, I won't bother making a post just to point it out and ridicule the respective person. You do though, and therefore you think you're so smart. Do you act in real life like that? Cause if you do, I have to assume you ask veterans in wheel-chairs for a race, and when they say no you feel like Maurice Green when he got the 60-metre world record...[...]One funny thing is how you always have to rely on obvious typos like this to make yourself feel better. [...]

Especially since I obviously know the difference between expression and impression, just like I know the difference between export and import. You dont even have to speak English very good, those are common words.

Hilarious #2: after I sonned you with my posts, the hardest thing you can come up with is "You so mean and only read what you want  :'(" - Trauma-Style before re-mentioning that I made a typo. I understand this is an historical moment, still.... please..



One funny thing is how you always have to rely on obvious typos like this to make yourself feel better.
But anyway, LoL I must have really got to you with that religion stuff. Disillusioned?  :-\

Just stay out of this thread, if you can't stand criticism on your religion, or in this case religion as such.


HAHA... now you signed off? Already giving up for the moment, and trying to work something out for later?
I'm sure so, since you're obviously not the type of poster who'd log off in such a moment for another reason, you know it, I know it, the whole board knows it.

Now you're trying to make yourself feel better by wrongfully assuming that I signed off because of your posts. If you check, you hadn't made your posts before I signed off. Funny how you act like you know me so well... just because I occasionally son you, doesn't mean you know me...

and now you're trying to make yourself feel better again by wrongfully assuming that you occasionally son me ..
lol, I don't know you? bad news. what's next? I shouldnt judge ppl I only know via the internet? how much more defensive can it get, homie?

Quote
A lot of people choose not to drink simply because there are no real benefits to it. Some find it fun, some don't. However, the fact is that the negative effects of drinking outweigh the positive ones. It inhibits you from thinking in the same that you would if you were sober. It causes some people to make wrong decisions.

You ask why Jews and Muslims don't eat pork. This question has less to do with questioning religion than it does with your ignorance. If you knew anything about religion, the reason why things were outlined the way they are, etc then you wouldn't have to ask questions like this and bash religion. I'm Muslim, so I'll tell you why Muslims don't eat pork. When an animal is slaughtered, vital organs could be damaged, blood could spread throughout the flesh, etc. and Muslims are prohibited from consuming any blood, which is why Muslims consume Halal meat. Halal meat (very similar to Kosher for Jews) is clean because the when meat is Halal, it means the animal was cut across the neck (jugular vein), so this causes a total loss of blood from the animal's body and no organs are injured. Since you're an idiot, I'll inform you that blood contains uric acid which is bad for our health. A pig can't be slaughtered at the neck simply because it doesn't have one... natural anatomy. Also, a pig excretes only 2% of its uric acid, so most of it remains in the body, which is why so many people in the past got sick from eating pork. It has to be very well prepared and thoroughly cooked (as does all meat, but in comparison the uric acid in pigs is a lot higher). It's also a scientific fact that people who consume pork face a greater risk of Rheumatism than people who don't. Any other dumb, ignorant questions?

ok this is just plain ridiculous. you mention some big words canibus-style, and think you won the argument.
are you seriously tellin me, you don't eat pork because its blood contains uric acid which is bad for your health? hilarious.
those are just some smart-ass, yet still very stupid, alibis. I couldnt repress a smile reading this paragraph.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:52:29 AM
You also said that I contradict myself because I don't eat pork, but I fuck hoes. How is that a contradiction? Just because I do/don't do everything my religion has outlined as Do's/Dont's? All that would mean is that I'm not a perfect Muslim, or not too good of a Muslim, which I'll admit. But, there is nothing contradicting about it. Nobody is perfect in any sense of the word. My religion states that, and I know that, nobody is perfect, and nobody is expecting me to be. Nobody can judge me, except.. yea you guessed it...since I believe in God, "Only God Can Judge Me".  :)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 09:54:17 AM
By the way, the Qu'ran and the teachings of most religions actually go hand in hand with science on a lot of things. Of course, you, being the ignorant person that you are, wouldn't know that. "Religious" people (I'm speaking on behalf of Muslims) knew about a lot of things that scientists barely discovered in the last few centuries..... written in the Qu'ran over 1400 years ago. It took people thousands of years to realize these things, so how is this information in the Qu'ran? One could argue that Muhammed just happened to be a genius, good at guessing, or perhaps they actually were the words of God. It is up to each individual to decide whether they want to BELIEVE it or not, which is why religion is referred to as a BELIEF and is described with the word FAITH. If one doesn't believe it, then he/she doesn't, and nobody forces them to.

I never said you shouldnt believe, homie. Whatever makes you sleep at night. If faith is working out for you, keep it up.

You also said that I contradict myself because I don't eat pork, but I fuck hoes. How is that a contradiction? Just because I do/don't do everything my religion has outlined as Do's/Dont's? All that would mean is that I'm not a perfect Muslim, or not too good of a Muslim, which I'll admit. But, there is nothing contradicting about it. Nobody is perfect in any sense of the word. My religion states that, and I know that, nobody is perfect, and nobody is expecting me to be. Nobody can judge me, except.. yea you guessed it...since I believe in God, "Only God Can Judge Me".  :)

Well, as you are pretty fast and aggressive with judgement on other people, projecting your insecurities on other people, you have to expect to get it back sometimes.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:56:31 AM
I see that you have nothing left to say except "are you seriously implying.." ,  "fatass....",  "scientific facts are smart-ass, stupid alibis"....  shows that your mind is boggling to come with a real reply but simply can't manage to do so.... Step Up Your Game
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 09:58:26 AM
Well, as you are pretty fast and aggressive with judgement on other people, projecting your insecurities on other people, you have to expect to get it back sometimes.

I'm still anticipating that moment, if I ever encounter it, I'll make a post about it and you shall be the first to know...
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 10:01:13 AM
By the way, all you've done is quote me without actually refuting anything. You asked why Muslims don't eat pork, and I told you why we don't. The only thing you've proven is your lack of knowledge. Lack of knowledge is no excuse "homie". Come on, I've studied in Europe, the educational system is pretty good there, what happened to you?
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 10:09:07 AM
I see that you have nothing left to say except "are you seriously implying.." ,  "fatass....",  "scientific facts are smart-ass, stupid alibis"....  shows that your mind is boggling to come with a real reply but simply can't manage to do so.... Step Up Your Game

haha.. so you dont eat pork cause it's unhealthy due to scientific facts.. might also be the reason why you don't get out so much, I mean L.A. is known for its pollution, which is unhealthy of course. suddenly everything makes sense.
just so you know I didnt mean that "fatass".. I apologize, that wasn't fair.

Well, as you are pretty fast and aggressive with judgement on other people, projecting your insecurities on other people, you have to expect to get it back sometimes.

I'm still anticipating that moment, if I ever encounter it, I'll make a post about it and you shall be the first to know...

Ive been there homie, Ive been there..

By the way, all you've done is quote me without actually refuting anything. You asked why Muslims don't eat pork, and I told you why we don't. The only thing you've proven is your lack of knowledge. Lack of knowledge is no excuse "homie". Come on, I've studied in Europe, the educational system is pretty good there, what happened to you?

LoL, your explanation was ridiculous. It's like saying I don't own a computer or a tv because it's bad for the eyes. Jesus.


-----------


btw notice that you write like 3 posts in a row now repeatedly?
let me explain why that is to you.
normally, you take your time and do all the shit in one post like I in that one post with all your quotes.
in this case, however, you read one thing I wrote and you're so upset and struck, you immediately have to say something to release your anger.
Im lovin it.
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 10:22:10 AM
Once again you make a wrong assumption. If you check my IP, or ask Overseer to, you will see that I'm not at the same location. I'm on a slow ass fuckin computer, with a 56k modem on Netscape internet, so if I tried to quote a bunch of quotes n shit... it would probably freeze my comp.. it's sad but true...

By the way, I said that's the reason why Muslims don't eat pork. It's part of the religion, and the Qu'ran was written over 1400 years ago. I'm sure our advancement has enabled people to consume pork without getting sick, but times change, religion doesn't. I never explicitly stated that "I don't eat pork because it's bad for you". I'll tell you, it's because my religion has outlined that it's not good for me, and I believe that. I can believe what I want. All I did is give you scientific reasoning behind why this is/was true. I gave you more than what you asked for because I was answering your question, not arguing a point. You asked why Muslims don't eat pork, and I answered. You reply with "oh please.. so you're tellin me that u don't eat pork cuz its bad for u... please.. thats bullshit"... read what's written, not what helps you make feel better about yourself by creating the illusion of an argument won
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 10:32:58 AM
Once again you make a wrong assumption. If you check my IP, or ask Overseer to, you will see that I'm not at the same location. I'm on a slow ass fuckin computer, with a 56k modem on Netscape internet, so if I tried to quote a bunch of quotes n shit... it would probably freeze my comp.. it's sad but true...

 :-\

By the way, I said that's the reason why Muslims don't eat pork. It's part of the religion, and the Qu'ran was written over 1400 years ago. I'm sure our advancement has enabled people to consume pork without getting sick, but times change, religion doesn't. I never explicitly stated that "I don't eat pork because it's bad for you". I'll tell you, it's because my religion has outlined that it's not good for me, and I believe that. I can believe what I want. All I did is give you scientific reasoning behind why this is/was true. I gave you more than what you asked for because I was answering your question, not arguing a point. You asked why Muslims don't eat pork, and I answered. You reply with "oh please.. so you're tellin me that u don't eat pork cuz its bad for u... please.. thats bullshit"... read what's written, not what helps you make feel better about yourself by creating the illusion of an argument won

Yea, you can. I allow it. "By the way", you're starting to sound sweet and rampantic.. which indicates how helpless you are. Therefore I assume you want me to stop taking the shit out of you.. I will. Has been fun though, until next time..
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: *Jamal* on November 25, 2004, 10:42:53 AM
Sweet? Not really. It's like this... you know how teachers in school have to be extra patient with their handicapped/special ed students? Well that's how I feel with you... I need to be patient, explain everything slowly and clearly, and as we can see.... it worked...  :)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: 7even on November 25, 2004, 10:45:49 AM
:)
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: bLaDe on November 25, 2004, 04:09:00 PM
I am not Muslim, but I used to fast every weekend or so.  The concept of fasting has been around for ages, and not limited to religion alone.  But of course it does have many spiritual aspects to it that may benefit anyone from any faith.  I realize that Muslims fast for a number of reasons, as Jamal pointed out.  Everything from attaining self control, being more appreciative of life and it's gifts, reminding us of God, achieving a heightened sense of consciousness and understanding pain, addiction, pleasure and empathy.  Also, it isn't limited to 'not eating' alone, I know that Muslims must also refrain from haram(sin) during the time.  Fasting has existed in Indian culture as well, popularized since the birth of Hinduism and Buddhism.  It was a practice popular amongst the wise and pious.  My personal experience has been great though.  Since I'm not a Muslim, I never had to fast for religious or cultural reasons, but I found it myself.  No one in my family fasted, so it wasn't somehow imposed or influenced upon me.  It was something I discovered during religious and philosophical study.  Again, it isn't just 'not eating', there are a lot of other aspects one must understand about this practice.  Fasting does require a focused mind and strong will power though, so there are many who struggle with it.  But from personal experience, I can say that everything positive said about it is true.

-b[X]
Title: Re: Some thoughts on fasting
Post by: Trauma-san on November 25, 2004, 10:31:46 PM
There are many parts of our existance, we have a physical existance, an emotional existence, a mental existence, an intellectual existence, and a spiritual existence (which more and more people deny).  When you walk around the world concerned with your physical existence, you sometimes neglect the other parts of your body, and don't focus any energy on them.  By fasting, you ignore the physical existence, even to the point of not eating.  If your mental, spirtual, and intellectual existence *knows you're not going to eat, it ignores your physical existence, and opens your mind to see your other existences.

LOL  what a load of shit, but it's the truth.   So fasting serves a purpose, yeah. 


Another theory I wanted to throw at cha is that people that abstain from something are actually more free to choose, then people who have chosen to do something.

If you've got a guy who's @ a party drinking, he's chosen to drink.  Fine.

If you have a guy at a party, who hasn't chosen to drink... then he still has the ability to choose, to drink, or not to drink.  The other guy has already limited himself by drinking; he can no longer choose not to drink.

Just a thought!