West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Lincoln on November 04, 2004, 08:48:37 AM
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They just told Bush on CNN, he looks like he was about to cry.
Shit's gonna hit the fan in Palestine now.
Edit: French hospital spokesman denies Arafat is dead.
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well, it certainly wouldn't be a bad thing :)
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^ you are fuckin joking right?
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^^That's what I would have said.
Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.
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I think it might open doors for peace in that area and that the next Palestian leader will be more open to negotiate.
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I think it might open doors for peace in that area and that the next Palestian leader will be more open to negotiate.
you could also see him replaced by a fanatic or a crazy ass person
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^^And you don't think the passing of Arafat will cause mass riots and violence?
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jesuss mauzip.. you really dont know do you... he's the one person stopping them from tearing the whole damn place up!
he's worked for years to try and reach a peaceful settlement.. without him shits likely to hit the fan
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Sharon poisoned him
dont you remember the thread here that stated that Sharon wants to assassinate Arafat.. there you have it
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didnt the the UN just pronounce that israsel is guily of "routinely humiliating" palestinians too.. ?
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jesuss mauzip.. you really dont know do you... he's the one person stopping them from tearing the whole damn place up!
he's worked for years to try and reach a peaceful settlement.. without him shits likely to hit the fan
I don't know if he'll ever get it Seer.
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^^And you don't think the passing of Arafat will cause mass riots and violence?
i see more violence but not riots, riots are usually caused by an extreme emotion or outrage at something...dying of natural causes won't cause people to riot...
but of course there's going to be voilence
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can someone give me a synopsis on what this mean?
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which part?
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like him dieng.. what does that impact
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i already said why above!
it impacts the whole israel/palestine peac process because the palestinian side will have lost its leader
therefore... no control in the name of peace = lots of bombs n stuff
get it?
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so will the jews win?
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so will the jews win?
the jews will always win...
they wouldn't be called Jews if they didn't win
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^ i dunno if thats a joke.. but its funny
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I have to disagree with Overseer. If Arafat does doe/or is in a state where he can't lead - the Palestininas have a chance to prove that they should have their own state. If they can stabilise themselves and hold elections - which is what the moderates want - then there would be massive pressure on Israel to let them have their own state.
Of course Sharon will do his best to create Civil War in Palestine (ie. release that Palestinian prisoners that favour violence from Israeli jails and throw them into the mix).
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The Middle East is fucked, with or without Arafat. That place ain't gonna see peace 'til the Apocalypse.
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I disagree. Let's face it: Arafat was a nobody. He controlled nothing NO MORE. He was just an old dying man. Now i'm not happy he died, no. But i'm happy he died for natural reasons and not cause Israeli killed him, you know what i mean? I'm happy it was a natural thing. Palestinesi doesnt need Arafat to die to go crazy. If they wanna make terrorist acts, they do. No matter if Arafat agrees with them or not, no matter if he's alive or not. They just dont give a fuck about him no more. Arafat was not the leader he used to be, man. No more. He was just an old man who lost his political power. I think now there'll be LESS drama. Maybe some terrorists will use this death as an excuse to make terrorist acts, but it doesnt change the things: Arafat was not the leader and it's better he's dead for a natural thing than being killed by Israelians.
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The Middle East is fucked, with or without Arafat. That place ain't gonna see peace 'til the Apocalypse.
>:(
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The Middle East is fucked, with or without Arafat. That place ain't gonna see peace 'til the Apocalypse.
>:(
I'm scared he's right.. ::)
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I agree with him, the angry face was at the fact that it was true
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Fucked up.
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He's dead. Look for an announcement tomorrow or sometime over the weekend.
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I agree that there will never be peace in the middle east until the Apocolypse.
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I agree that there will never be peace in the middle east until the Apocolypse.
:)
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^^That's what I would have said.
Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.
You support palestine, and were happy Bush won? You make no sense. I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read.
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^ I understand Lincoln's point of view perfectly clear... but I'm just a dumb hick from the Carolinas, what would I know.
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^^That's what I would have said.
Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.
You support palestine, and were happy Bush won? You make no sense. I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read.
When it comes to Israel/Palestine, it would be the same shit with Kerry in office.
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I think it might open doors for peace in that area and that the next Palestian leader will be more open to negotiate.
u do realise its the isrtaelis who refuse to negotiate right? israel will only negotiate with themselves and america, a complete contradiction of the road map (eu/russia/palestine/america and egypt?)
yasser arafrat is the only person who is respected all accross palestine who can unite them his passing will make peace so much harder, israel is the real barrier to peace they occupy the whole of palestine and turned into a big prison for fucks sake and dumb fucks try and blaming palestinians for voilence
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Sharon poisoned him
dont you remember the thread here that stated that Sharon wants to assassinate Arafat.. there you have it
you know that was the first thing that crossed my mind.
If he does die israel will refuse him to be burried in occupied east jerusalum i wonder how that will go down....
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^^That's what I would have said.
Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.
You support palestine, and were happy Bush won? You make no sense. I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read.
I'm not happy Bush won, but I'd rather him over Kerry. They both have strong pro-Israeli views so that wouldn't tip the balance either way for me.
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^^That's what I would have said.
Mauzip, I don't think you understand the Israel/Palestine issue very well considering all your posts I've read on it.
You support palestine, and were happy Bush won? You make no sense. I don't think you understand American politics well... based on all your posts I've read.
I'm not happy Bush won, but I'd rather him over Kerry. They both have strong pro-Israeli views so that wouldn't tip the balance either way for me.
I disagree. Bush said he wants 2 NATIONS, Israel and Palestina. Dont understimate this, it's fundamental. He made a LOT of pressure on Sharon trying to convince him to make peace and quit building "the wall". Bush wasnt exactly "pro Israel". In fact everybody in the Middle East thinks that now he was been re-elected, it's easier for Israel and Palestina to try to make peace. And the prime minister of Palestina said he's happy Bush was been re-elected cause now he can try to talk with Sharon. You gotta understand that it's not easy to make peace for Sharon AND for the "next" Arafat. Sharon almost was kicked in his ass out of the Parliament cause he retired his troops from Gaza. He was saved by the opposition. And the "next" Arafat, like Arafat, still has to condamn terrorists and terroristic acts. And it's hard to do it, cause terrorirsts are scaring and important for the Palestinesi population. I mean they're making it a war for Allah, so it's hard to condamn terrorism (cause it's like a religious thing now), and it's the conditio sine qua non to make peace with Israel. That's the problem. Palestina has to condamn terrorism, and Sharon has to risk his ass in the Parliament. That's why the peace aint easy. Dont get played by the media and the propaganda. Sharon wants to make peace, but he cant. Cause Israeli doesnt want to make peace with Palestinesi. And the "next" Arafat doesnt want to make peace with Israel. Cause terrorists doesnt want to.
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i disagree bush has been very leanient towards israel remember that "new realities on the ground" speach he made about israeli settlements which is something no other president has said and contradict international law which has said they are illegal from the start and he even approved new settlements in the west bank. He has also gone along the same route of vetoing anything critising israel in the UN which send the wrong message to the world, especially when america is so keen to use the UN to place sanctions on sudan etc (don't get me wrong i'm all for punishing the sudaneese goverment but the message he is giving is sudan is bad, the whole world can see israel is bad and they have created way more refugees but their our friends so thats let them be) Bush has also let israel carry out bloody opporations in palestine with minimal voice of restraint and not to mention allowing them to buldoze down thousands of homes farms and schools.
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i disagree bush has been very leanient towards israel remember that "new realities on the ground" speach he made about israeli settlements which is something no other president has said and contradict international law which has said they are illegal from the start and he even approved new settlements in the west bank. He has also gone along the same route of vetoing anything critising israel in the UN which send the wrong message to the world, especially when america is so keen to use the UN to place sanctions on sudan etc (don't get me wrong i'm all for punishing the sudaneese goverment but the message he is giving is sudan is bad, the whole world can see israel is bad and they have created way more refugees but their our friends so thats let them be) Bush has also let israel carry out bloody opporations in palestine with minimal voice of restraint and not to mention allowing them to buldoze down thousands of homes farms and schools.
He didnt only buldoze down thousands of homes farm and schools. He sent back his troops from Gaza. And he almost lost the power in the Parliament because of that. It was the opposition to "save" his ass. The thing you have to understand is that Bush is making a war against TERRORISM. Now NONE in Palestina (i mean their leaders, from Arafat to the new ones) has EVER said that terrorism is wrong and that it's wrong to "use" it against Israel (or USA). NONE has said that to use kamikazees (even children) is wrong. None got the balls to say that a war of religion is unacceptable simply because they aint fighting a war about religion. NONE has ever recognized Israel as a Nation (actually 18 from 25 nations of the Arab Confederation doesnt even picture Israel in the maps). None has ever said they'll stop terrorism so they can make peace. And, the thing i add, NONE CONTROLS TERRORISM. Not even Arafat (that's why i dont give a fuck he's dead. Actually i'm happy he died for a natural reason, when someone dies like that, you cant do nothing but to say "RIP"). That's the reason why peace is not possible at the moment. And that's the reason why Bush cant support them or defend them. Cause until they'll make distance from terrorism, they'll be terrorists. And i agree with that and with Sharon/Bush on this one. You know what i mean? Plus remember Bush is the President of the USA, not of Israel. He's not responsable for what Sharon does. P.S. I'm not pro-Israel, i'm neutral in this shit. Plus i'm Italian, and Italy is well known for being "friend" of Palestina since forever. So..
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so is he dead or isnt he???
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hes in a coma and not doing well.
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i disagree bush has been very leanient towards israel remember that "new realities on the ground" speach he made about israeli settlements which is something no other president has said and contradict international law which has said they are illegal from the start and he even approved new settlements in the west bank. He has also gone along the same route of vetoing anything critising israel in the UN which send the wrong message to the world, especially when america is so keen to use the UN to place sanctions on sudan etc (don't get me wrong i'm all for punishing the sudaneese goverment but the message he is giving is sudan is bad, the whole world can see israel is bad and they have created way more refugees but their our friends so thats let them be) Bush has also let israel carry out bloody opporations in palestine with minimal voice of restraint and not to mention allowing them to buldoze down thousands of homes farms and schools.
He didnt only buldoze down thousands of homes farm and schools. He sent back his troops from Gaza. And he almost lost the power in the Parliament because of that. It was the opposition to "save" his ass. The thing you have to understand is that Bush is making a war against TERRORISM. Now NONE in Palestina (i mean their leaders, from Arafat to the new ones) has EVER said that terrorism is wrong and that it's wrong to "use" it against Israel (or USA). NONE has said that to use kamikazees (even children) is wrong. None got the balls to say that a war of religion is unacceptable simply because they aint fighting a war about religion. NONE has ever recognized Israel as a Nation (actually 18 from 25 nations of the Arab Confederation doesnt even picture Israel in the maps). None has ever said they'll stop terrorism so they can make peace. And, the thing i add, NONE CONTROLS TERRORISM. Not even Arafat (that's why i dont give a fuck he's dead. Actually i'm happy he died for a natural reason, when someone dies like that, you cant do nothing but to say "RIP"). That's the reason why peace is not possible at the moment. And that's the reason why Bush cant support them or defend them. Cause until they'll make distance from terrorism, they'll be terrorists. And i agree with that and with Sharon/Bush on this one. You know what i mean? Plus remember Bush is the President of the USA, not of Israel. He's not responsable for what Sharon does. P.S. I'm not pro-Israel, i'm neutral in this shit. Plus i'm Italian, and Italy is well known for being "friend" of Palestina since forever. So..
don't make things up arafrat has condemned trerrorist attacks heres an extract from a news article on the bbc relating to the last one
Bomber's family condemn militants
The bomb was detonated in a shop in a busy Tel Aviv market
The mother of a teenage suicide bomber who blew himself up and killed three Israelis in Tel Aviv has criticised the militants who recruited him.
More than 30 others were wounded when 16-year-old Amer al-Fahr detonated about 5kg of explosives in a shop in the Israeli city's busy Carmel market.
The leftist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said one of its members had carried out the attack.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was among those to condemn the bombing.
sharon has not sent back troops yet october was the bloodiest month in palestine in 4 years
heres what the british foreign secretary said back in october
Israel is failing in its duty to avoid innocent civilian casualties, UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has said.
Mr Straw said the Israeli Government were also failing to meet their legal obligation to ensure responses to terrorism were proportionate.
He was speaking as Israel widened a two-week operation in Gaza.
The minister said he recognised the operation was in response to Qassam rocket attacks but it had killed 115 Palestinians, including many children.
just because the the israeli right is against the the gazaa pullout doesn't mean sharon is some kind of hero he built the settlement there in the first place and he is now using the pull out as an excuse to block a palestinian state and hold onto the west bank. and why do u think the arab states don't recognise israel? cos it was never theirs to take in the first place! just because a book written 2000 years ago said said the land belongs to jews is an absolutely ludicrus reason to give them a country and look how they've abused their powers, my view has always been the jews should have been given part of germany. there will always be terroristic acts against israel until it gives up the land which it occupies they have no other way to fight the occupation, it all option is the for israel to take it but they don't want to give up their illegally seized land so there will never be peace. the humiliations, restrictions and huge civillian casualties against palestine only add fuel to the fire. when u talk about terrorism why don't u look at the stats which country has inflicted the most civllian casualties palestine has had 10 times more civillian deaths i call that state terror.
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Man c'mon. Be realistic about it, Arafat aint condamned a damn thing. It's obvious that when you use a 16 years old and you send him to die that's a wrong thing, i dont need Arafat to say that. But there was been hundreds of kamikazee's till now, not 1. I've never ever seen Arafat condaming the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestina for using kamikazee's (exp. children). He has supported them, directly or indirectly. If you wanna sell me something different, then i've lived a whole different story than you. C'mon, Arafat is GUILTY. Like Sharon. Cause he's responsable for the death of all those kids and all those innocent Israelians. Cause he refused peace in 2000, and he wanna see Israel destroyed. So he sopport the war.
About the Palestina-Israel thing, i do agree with you, i mean Israelians did a wrong thing abusing their power and all, but that's another thing.
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Wednesday, 8 May, 2002, 19:37 GMT 20:37 UK
Arafat orders end to 'terrorist' attacks
The Palestinian Authority condemned the attack
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has ordered his security forces to prevent "all terrorist operations" against Israelis after a suicide bomber killed 15 people and himself in an attack near Tel Aviv.
Powell said the latest attack endangered the peace process
Mr Arafat condemned the attack as Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon flew back to Israel for an emergency cabinet meeting after cutting short a visit to the United States.
In Bethlehem, a BBC correspondent outside the besieged Church of the Nativity says the Israeli army seems to be preparing for at least some of those inside to come out.
But it is not yet clear what will happen to the 13 militants whom Israel describes as the most wanted, after Italy refused to receive them in exile.
The suicide bombing on Tuesday at a crowded pool club was the deadliest since Israel launched what it says was a campaign against Palestinian militants in the West Bank at the end of March.
Several hours after the Israeli leader left Washington, a second Palestinian tried to blow himself up at a junction near the northern Israeli city of Haifa.
I... give my order to the security forces to confront and prevent all terrorist operations against Israeli civilians from any Palestinian group
Yasser Arafat, Palestinian leader
US Secretary of State Colin Powell, speaking after meetings with UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, said Tuesday night's suicide bombing endangered the peace process.
"We note with deep regret the terrorist incidents yesterday... which once again puts at risk the possibility of going forward," Mr Powell said. "We condemn them and ask all others to condemn them."
Amid growing expectations of Israeli reprisals, the Palestinian leader said he was ordering "the security forces to confront and prevent all terrorist operations against Israeli civilians from any Palestinian group".
He said he was committed to the US-led fight against terrorism and appealed to the international community to help his forces "implement my order".
Mr Arafat later appeared on Palestinian television and reiterated his call.
Rishon Letzion bombing
Police say the bomber walked into the Spiel club on the third floor of a building in the suburb of Rishon Letzion with a suitcase packed with nails and explosives.
More than 50 people were wounded, some seriously.
The Islamic militant group Hamas said it was behind the attack.
Sharon warning
Speaking to reporters before he left Washington, Mr Sharon blamed Mr Arafat for the attack.
The bombing, he said, was "proof of the true intentions of those who lead the Palestinian Authority".
The Israeli leader said he was returning to Israel with a heavy heart, full of rage, and vowed to continue the fight against militants.
"Israel will not surrender to blackmail... he who rises up to kill us, we will pre-empt it and kill him first," Mr Sharon told reporters following talks with US President George W Bush.
The Israeli leader convened an emergency cabinet meeting after landing at Ben Gurion Airport, to discuss Israel's response.
Reports from the West Bank say Israeli forces have moved into a village near Jericho and rounded up several hundred men.
Robot defuses bomber
On Wednesday morning, a Palestinian man tried to blow himself up next to two soldiers at a bus stop at Megiddo Junction, 20 kilometres (12 miles) south-east of Haifa.
The bomb went off only partially and only the bomber was hurt, Israel radio reported.
Police used a robot to pull the man away from the bus stop and to defuse the explosives on his body. He was then taken to Afula Hospital.
In Bethlehem, diplomatic and Israeli sources say a new deal has been struck to end the six-week siege.
The BBC's Claire Marshall, in Bethlehem, says it is understood that 26 of the wanted Palestinian militants will be taken straight to Gaza and the civilians will be freed.
The fate of the other 13 remains unclear. Negotiators on both sides had indicated that they would go to Italy, but the Italian foreign ministry rejected the plan.
Our correspondent says there is a lot of military activity around the church, with Israeli troops preparing barriers and re-erecting metal-detectors, apparently in preparation for at least some of those inside to come out.
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So basically you agree with me on this one.
Let's face it: Arafat was a nobody. He controlled nothing NO MORE. [..] Arafat was not the leader he used to be, man. No more. He was just an old man who lost his political power.
And, the thing i add, NONE CONTROLS TERRORISM. Not even Arafat (that's why i dont give a fuck he's dead. Actually i'm happy he died for a natural reason, when someone dies like that, you cant do nothing but to say "RIP").
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no he still had power he didn't like to deligate which is why his pms got very frustraighted
he also had the ear of the palestinian people there won't be anyone as influential as him for a long time
i agree arafat didn't contol terrorism the terrorist groups controls that, and they are fighting a very worthy cause but by unworthy means, but then israel does it too. peaceful preotest doesn't always work look at the what happenned to the Dalai Lama and Tibet china fucked them over royally they led a peaceful protest to the occupation and china murdered a million tibetians forced their leader into exile and imprisoned his monks. What does the international community do? instead of supporting tibetians and their methods they simply ignore them as they are afraid of angering the chineese last time the Dalai Lama was in London Tony Blair snubbed him is the actions someone who is so concerned about terrorism should take?
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He's been dead for a long time now, I'm sure.
They just keep it under wraps and clouded in mystery to settle things like his succession and to keep some sort of peace in Israel. It's what I would have done too, I think.
But they can't keep it secret for ever and the moment it's announced.....the bomb is certain to blow. (no pun intended)
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he is still alive but i can;t see him leaving france alive
israel has angered palestinians by making plans for his burial
Israel plans for Arafat burial
The Israeli government has made plans for Yasser Arafat to be buried in the Gaza Strip, against the ailing leader's reported wish for a grave in Jerusalem.
Palestinians would be allowed to cross from the West Bank and Arab leaders with no diplomatic ties with Israel would also be allowed to attend.
A senior Arafat official reacted to news of the Israeli plans by saying they were inappropriate.
Mr Arafat remains critically ill at a hospital in France.
The two top Palestinian officials, PLO acting chief Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei are flying to his bedside on Monday, officials said.
We can arrange it so that passage through the crossings is easy and simple
Avraham Poraz
Israeli interior minister
Christian Estripeau, a spokesman for the Percy military hospital outside Paris, told the BBC on Sunday he was aware of speculation about Mr Arafat's state of health.
However, he said he was unable to comment and, in accordance with the wishes of Yasser Arafat's wife, Suha, he could only repeat the official hospital line that the Palestinian leader was not dead.
Earlier, Palestinian officials speculated that he might be suffering from liver failure while other reports said he had emerged from a coma.
In the nine days Yasser Arafat has been at the hospital, the cause of his illness has never been disclosed and rumours have continued to circulate that he has fallen into an irreversible coma, the BBC's Katya Adler reports from Paris.
'No problem'
Israeli Interior Minister Avraham Poraz said arrangements for a Gaza burial would not be difficult.
"We can arrange it so that passage through the crossings is easy and simple - and that's what will happen," he said.
His ministry, he said, would ensure there would be "no problem at all" with heads of state coming to Israel to visit the territories.
An Israeli government spokesman stressed it was only a contingency plan, and that they were waiting for the Palestinians to make an official request, but he said so far there had been no contact.
Israel is opposed to burying Mr Arafat in Jerusalem, with Justice Minister Yosef Lapid saying it is a city "where Jews bury their kings... not a city [for burying] an Arab terrorist".
Neglected cemetery
One Palestinian official described the Israeli plans as outrageous, saying the Israelis were denying Mr Arafat his right to be buried in East Jerusalem.
However, he added that the Palestinians did not have any leverage in the negotiations, especially as under Islamic traditions, if he does die, Mr Arafat should be buried as quickly as possible.
A Palestinian minister, Saeb Erekat, said it was inappropriate to discuss the burial issue while Arafat was alive.
"I think it's not for the Israelis to decide and I would urge the Israelis to show some sensitivity," he was quoted as saying by the Associated Press.
Reports say Israel would prefer for Mr Arafat to be buried in his family plot in the Gaza refugee camp of Khan Younis, particularly since it intends to pull out of Gaza next year and could distance itself from a potential place of pilgrimage.
However, the tiny cemetery where the leader's father and sister are buried is ankle-deep in rubbish and reeks of donkey dung from a neighbouring market, correspondents say.
"I don't want the president to be buried here," local butcher Saleh Zaourb, 48, told AFP news agency. "Other places would be more fitting - Jerusalem is the best place, otherwise Gaza City."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/3990385.stm
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no he still had power he didn't like to deligate which is why his pms got very frustraighted
he also had the ear of the palestinian people there won't be anyone as influential as him for a long time
i agree arafat didn't contol terrorism the terrorist groups controls that, and they are fighting a very worthy cause but by unworthy means, but then israel does it too. peaceful preotest doesn't always work look at the what happenned to the Dalai Lama and Tibet china fucked them over royally they led a peaceful protest to the occupation and china murdered a million tibetians forced their leader into exile and imprisoned his monks. What does the international community do? instead of supporting tibetians and their methods they simply ignore them as they are afraid of angering the chineese last time the Dalai Lama was in London Tony Blair snubbed him is the actions someone who is so concerned about terrorism should take?
Yeah we both knows the answer..
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answer to what?
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What does the international community do? instead of supporting tibetians and their methods they simply ignore them as they are afraid of angering the chineese last time the Dalai Lama was in London Tony Blair snubbed him is the actions someone who is so concerned about terrorism should take?
No.