West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Don Rizzle on March 02, 2005, 10:14:48 AM
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I was hugely suprised to find out that America gave the death penalty to under 18s, atleast your taking some small steps to improvement as it scraped through the supreme court 5 votes to 4. other offenders are Iran, China and Packistan who still execute juveniles.
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this is ridiculous
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lol I'd have a 10 year old executed, I don't care ;D unless the family of the victim gave him/her a pass :D
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There was a case of a 16 year old who broke into a house and killed the woman living there and buried her in the backyard. He then went back into the house, took the woman's daughter, and buried her alive right next to her dead mother's corpse.
Eventhough he's underage, that heinous crime isn't equal to that of an adult?
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/02/bus.shooting.ap/index.html
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/03/02/bus.shooting.ap/story.bus.jpg
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Wednesday, March 2, 2005 Posted: 5:21 PM EST (2221 GMT)
CUMBERLAND CITY, Tennessee (AP) -- A 14-year-old boy was charged with shooting a school bus driver to death as she drove her morning route Wednesday. A relative of the driver said she had reported the boy a day earlier for using smokeless tobacco on the bus.
None of the 24 students on the bus, ranging from kindergarten to the 12th grade, was hurt, even though the bus crashed into a utility pole after driver Joyce Gregory was shot.
Authorities declined to comment on a motive for the shooting or identify the high school freshman accused of killing Gregory, but neighbors said his name is Jason Clinard.
Public defender Jack Lockert, who met with the suspect for about 45 minutes, said he was in shock.
"We obviously feel like he has severe mental issues," Lockert said. "He's an A and B student and had never been in trouble before."
Two weeks ago, Gregory told family members she was having trouble with students chewing tobacco on the bus, according to her cousin Jacqueline Reed. After several warnings, she reported them to school administrators Tuesday, Reed said, adding that the 14-year-old was one of the students Gregory reported.
The shooting happened around 6:15 a.m. on an unpaved rural road just outside Cumberland City, about 50 miles northwest of Nashville.
Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jennifer Johnson said the suspect had not yet boarded the bus when the driver was shot. Police said the weapon used was a .45-caliber handgun, but they would not say where the boy got it.
"We've heard stories that there was an argument, that he may have been disciplined by the bus driver, but right now we're trying to sort through those stories to see exactly what happened," Johnson said.
District Attorney Dan Alsobrooks said the suspect has been charged with first-degree murder in Juvenile Court and was being held without bond. He said the boy could face adult charges as the investigation continues.
Gregory was a teacher's assistant for four or five years and had been a bus driver for the past two years, said Phillip Wallace, director of Stewart County Schools.
"I lost a good friend this morning, so I'm hurt," said Bill Austin, a schools supervisor. "We're trying to do our level best to get our kids through this. That's what we've got to do right now."
An informal school safety survey released Wednesday by the National Association of School Resource Officers says more than one in three school-based police officers say violent incidents on school buses are on the rise.
Almost eight in 10 of the school-based officers took a weapon away from a student on school property during the last year, according to the survey of more than 750 officers.
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/02/bus.shooting.ap/index.html
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/03/02/bus.shooting.ap/story.bus.jpg
)
Wednesday, March 2, 2005 Posted: 5:21 PM EST (2221 GMT)
CUMBERLAND CITY, Tennessee (AP) -- A 14-year-old boy was charged with shooting a school bus driver to death as she drove her morning route Wednesday. A relative of the driver said she had reported the boy a day earlier for using smokeless tobacco on the bus.
None of the 24 students on the bus, ranging from kindergarten to the 12th grade, was hurt, even though the bus crashed into a utility pole after driver Joyce Gregory was shot.
Authorities declined to comment on a motive for the shooting or identify the high school freshman accused of killing Gregory, but neighbors said his name is Jason Clinard.
Public defender Jack Lockert, who met with the suspect for about 45 minutes, said he was in shock.
"We obviously feel like he has severe mental issues," Lockert said. "He's an A and B student and had never been in trouble before."
Two weeks ago, Gregory told family members she was having trouble with students chewing tobacco on the bus, according to her cousin Jacqueline Reed. After several warnings, she reported them to school administrators Tuesday, Reed said, adding that the 14-year-old was one of the students Gregory reported.
The shooting happened around 6:15 a.m. on an unpaved rural road just outside Cumberland City, about 50 miles northwest of Nashville.
Tennessee Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jennifer Johnson said the suspect had not yet boarded the bus when the driver was shot. Police said the weapon used was a .45-caliber handgun, but they would not say where the boy got it.
"We've heard stories that there was an argument, that he may have been disciplined by the bus driver, but right now we're trying to sort through those stories to see exactly what happened," Johnson said.
District Attorney Dan Alsobrooks said the suspect has been charged with first-degree murder in Juvenile Court and was being held without bond. He said the boy could face adult charges as the investigation continues.
Gregory was a teacher's assistant for four or five years and had been a bus driver for the past two years, said Phillip Wallace, director of Stewart County Schools.
"I lost a good friend this morning, so I'm hurt," said Bill Austin, a schools supervisor. "We're trying to do our level best to get our kids through this. That's what we've got to do right now."
An informal school safety survey released Wednesday by the National Association of School Resource Officers says more than one in three school-based police officers say violent incidents on school buses are on the rise.
Almost eight in 10 of the school-based officers took a weapon away from a student on school property during the last year, according to the survey of more than 750 officers.
Yeah, he'll be rehabilitated ::)
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Teenagers need to be held responsible for their actions, and they know the difference between right and wrong.
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^^ And that's done by executing them, maybe that'll teach them.
America is considered a 3rd world country when it comes to death penalty, executing juvenile delinquents and mentally handicapped people is disgusting, imo.
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Im under the law considered a minor.
I understand what murder is. If i were to go kill 30 people what are you supposed to do....put me through counseling?
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I guess keeping them in state facilities that taxpayers have to pay for is so much better. They'll come out and do that same damn thing all over again. If the death penalty is allowed for adults, it should be allowed for people that commit adult crimes, no matter what age.
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^Agreed.
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i'm against capitol punishment, for the most severe crimes i believe a LIFE term in prison is warranted eg serial rapists serial murders and peodifiles, if you execute someone where is the chance to punish them they won't feel remorse after, they've just been given an easy way out. the other reason i'm against the death penalty is there is no rewinding the clock if you've sentenced an innocent man to death the is no undoing of that. for others i believe a regime of punishment (not brutality and torture but equally not a pussy ass system where it becomes like a hotel) and rehibilitation is the key, but the whole american penal system is fucked up anyway it all seems to be punishment and no rehibilitation so no wonder you expect all convicts to go out an do the same thing over.
has anyone been watching the torture season on channel 4? i was truely disgusted about not only the regime in guantamino bay and in american prisons...
basically in guantamino the regime is so fuck up your not going to get any information out of people but push them down 1 of 2 roads insanity or suicide. they did a mild 48 hour mock of the techniques used in guantamino by ex american interrigators, there were about 6 volunteers one man had to leave after 8 hours because the doctor said it wasn't safe for him to continue, another quit after he couldn't take it any more (these were all volunteers determined to stick it out to the end).
prisons in america not quite as bad but can be very brutal seeing people getting their scin burnt off by hugely excessives amounts of pepper spray being used so much so it effected people on other wards, brutal beatings and general heavy handedness, excessive restraints, encouraging gang fights etc. and the green wall which protects the prison gaurds and targets whistle blowers
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Whether you agree with capital punishment or not is a different story. The fact of the matter is, capital punishment is instituted for those who commit terrible crimes. That's not changing any time soon. The issue at hand is the exclusion of minors. As long as capital punishment is allowed (and I have my beefs with cap. punishment, but that's for another day) I think minors should be subject to it as well if the crime fits and they have been proven without a shadow of a doubt to commit the crime.
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agreed^
btw nice sig :)
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^^ And that's done by executing them, maybe that'll teach them.
America is considered a 3rd world country when it comes to death penalty, executing juvenile delinquents and mentally handicapped people is disgusting, imo.
I think it's strange America is the only Western country that has the death penalty. A recent poll in The Netherlands showed that 63% of all Dutch think we should reintroduce the death penalty again. And yes, I'm one of them.
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When kids do things like that it is the fault of the country and its society not the kids as such.
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When kids do things like that it is the fault of the country and its society not the kids as such.
Its the kids fault. He chose to kill someone. He didnt have to.
If the society says jump off a bridge are you gunna do it.
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I think it should be legal to execute juveniles. Hilariously, the court majority argued that children 'aren't capable' of determining their own actions until they're 18, and that they're mind isn't fully developed.
In the past, they've argued just the opposite. Children are just small people; that's why they can have abortions without their parents consent.
So which is it... a child is old enough to make the decision to kill a baby she fucked around and got pregnant with, she has enough of a mind to do that... but she doesn't have enough of a mind to know that killing somebody is bad. It's a direct contradiction of the Supreme Court's previous rulings.
Whatever though, I don't get 16 year olds pregnant, and I don't execute minors. So I guess it's none of my business.
Lastly: Average time it takes to execute someone on death row: 14 years. So the law today, sure saved all those 4 year old murderers and rapists from the horrible death that liberals have been trying to implant in our heads.
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12 year waits don't stop people getting stitched up for things they didn't do it just makes the whole situation much more unbarable for them. the last person to be executed in England was later found out to be innocent (it wasn't the reason for abolishing the death penalty) it just goes to show when the state plays god they can get it wrong, and they are supposed to be protecting the innocent civillians but sometimes target those they are there to protect which is one of my main beefs with capitol punishment.
I agree they probably knew killing another person is wrong unless they were insane, i believe in rehabilitation. plus i did lots of bad things when i was 15/16 i went off the rails but now on the whole i believe i'm a good citizen and i don't think i'll ever turn back to how i was.
What astonishes me about you trauma is that you approve of indescriminate bombings of innocent civilians on little or no intelligence in places like Iraq and view those commiting atrocities as heros but if it someone does something bad in america they should get the chair. its a huge contradiction if you ask me, and just shows how fucked up american values truely are.
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When kids do things like that it is the fault of the country and its society not the kids as such.
Its the kids fault. He chose to kill someone. He didnt have to.
If the society says jump off a bridge are you gunna do it.
And where the fuck did he get a gun from ??
It's not just morals, it's weapon politics as well.
If some kid got a hold of a gun without a license in most countries, there would be a big ass case, and the ADULT RESPONSIBLE for giving the kid a gun, or not keeping his guns in a safe place would get punished, or banned from owning guns.
Kids/teenagers shooting guns was never issue in MOST countries, it's where it's easy accessable that you get these situations.
Im under the law considered a minor.
I understand what murder is. If i were to go kill 30 people what are you supposed to do....put me through counseling?
Ohh yeah, that happens every other day.. ::)
If that's a likely scenario where you live, then you got a lot worse problems than death penalty to deal with.
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So which is it... a child is old enough to make the decision to kill a baby she fucked around and got pregnant with, she has enough of a mind to do that...
Ok, you can't really make that comparison. For example, there's this girl, and unfortunately for her, she's Mormon. Her uncle decides he's gonna fuck her, just because well, he's Mormon. If she gets pregnant, is it her fault? Well you're Mormon, so your answer might be a bit biased, but I think it's the uncle's fault.
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When kids do things like that it is the fault of the country and its society not the kids as such.
Its the kids fault. He chose to kill someone. He didnt have to.
If the society says jump off a bridge are you gunna do it.
And where the fuck did he get a gun from ??
It's not just morals, it's weapon politics as well.
If some kid got a hold of a gun without a license in most countries, there would be a big ass case, and the ADULT RESPONSIBLE for giving the kid a gun, or not keeping his guns in a safe place would get punished, or banned from owning guns.
Kids/teenagers shooting guns was never issue in MOST countries, it's where it's easy accessable that you get these situations.
I agree. The parents should be held responsible as well for theirs kids actions since they raise them and tell them whats right from wrong.
Im 14, if I killed 10 people with my dads gun, I think I deserve to get the Death Penalty and my parent(s) should go to jail as well since their responsible for my actions and couldn't secure the gun that I stole from them.
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juveniles should know the difference between right and wrong but do they have the ability to think things through properly? have you seen a 16 year old split up with their girlfriend it can be like the world is going to end hormones are all over the place and they lack the ability to think straight there is no way they should be treated the same as adults.
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(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002H5E.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg)
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I find it funny you guys take the blame away from the minors and place it on society/government.
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juveniles should know the difference between right and wrong but do they have the ability to think things through properly?
yes
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juveniles should know the difference between right and wrong but do they have the ability to think things through properly?
I think you need a reality check.
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when you a teenager it can be a very unstable part of your life which can drive you to do things which you wouldn't normally do when you mature and become an adult, and if people are able to see the signs and stop that things can happen that everybody regrets, its not necessarily anyone elses fault but teenager should be punished, rehabiltated and braught back in the fold.
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a teenager knows what he does if he murders
you may be mentally handicapped, but most teenagers are not
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fuck off cock sucker why bring negativity into it you disagree no need to start with the insultts thats what ruins this forum cos none of you can debate so you turn to insults.
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fuck off cock sucker why bring negativity into it you disagree no need to start with the insultts thats what ruins this forum cos none of you can debate so you turn to insults.
i'm just trying to let you realize a teenager knows what he does when he murders
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WAAAAAAAAAAAA I'm a growing pubes around my dick and I don't know what to do WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I better go kill someone now WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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If teenagers were really as unstable as you say, then there would be ALOT more teenage murders. Alot of teenagers break up with girlfriends, all teenagers have raging hormones.
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i know most teenagers get through that period of life with a few up and down but on the whole they get along fine but some don't its your most unstable part of your life for most peopleand can really have a huge effect on the rest of your life. if they kill someone they should be put away for the safety of the public and to be punished but equally to help them work through their problems so they can lead the life of a good citizen upon release. and besides could you hold it on your conscience that you exectued a teenager before they were legally alowed to have sex in america, thats harsh.
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www.drphil.com
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Don Rizzle is right, teenagers doesn't have the developed mind that a older person have.
My mom works with troubled kids, drug-addicts, criminals, mentally handicapped youngsters, abused kids ->> leads into drug-use, violence, misc. crimes, in general juvenile delinquent kids who doesn't fit into the A4 society, and if there's one thing these kids need, it's a new chance to stand on their own.
Most of them make it out the shithole one day..
And of course they should be locked up for life if they go on a killing spree, but that's rather rare.....
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Don Rizzle is right, teenagers doesn't have the developed mind that a older person have.
My mom works with troubled kids, drug-addicts, criminals, mentally handicapped youngsters, abused kids ->> leads into drug-use, violence, misc. crimes, in general juvenile delinquent kids who doesn't fit into the A4 society, and if there's one thing these kids need, it's a new chance to stand on their own.
Most of them make it out the shithole one day..
And of course they should be locked up for life if they go on a killing spree, but that's rather rare.....
... well if they don't have a developed mind, then why has the supreme court decided that they DO have a developed mind, and should be able to have an abortion without parental consent? Same thing.
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What astonishes me about you trauma is that you approve of indescriminate bombings of innocent civilians on little or no intelligence in places like Iraq and view those commiting atrocities as heros but if it someone does something bad in america they should get the chair. its a huge contradiction if you ask me, and just shows how fucked up american values truely are.
It's a WAR. If we were at War with you, I would want you, your mother, and all your brothers and sisters dead. Perhaps you should wake up, and look at the bloody past of YOUR country, and see exactly where you're standing today, because from my viewpoint, you're standing in thousands of years of blood, and telling me how horrible I am. Face it. We're ALL that way. The entire world is the result of wars, horrible wars where children & women & men alike were killed, unfairly. Why? Greed, Lust, Money, Power. YOUR Country did that. So did mine.
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... well if they don't have a developed mind, then why has the supreme court decided that they DO have a developed mind, and should be able to have an abortion without parental consent? Same thing.
The same supreme court allowed execution of the same kids until recently.
So I guess you mean they're wrong for not allowing that now.. ??
Since they can make their own decisions on abort, they should also face the same consequences in court as adults ??
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What astonishes me about you trauma is that you approve of indescriminate bombings of innocent civilians on little or no intelligence in places like Iraq and view those commiting atrocities as heros but if it someone does something bad in america they should get the chair. its a huge contradiction if you ask me, and just shows how fucked up american values truely are.
It's a WAR. If we were at War with you, I would want you, your mother, and all your brothers and sisters dead. Perhaps you should wake up, and look at the bloody past of YOUR country, and see exactly where you're standing today, because from my viewpoint, you're standing in thousands of years of blood, and telling me how horrible I am. Face it. We're ALL that way. The entire world is the result of wars, horrible wars where children & women & men alike were killed, unfairly. Why? Greed, Lust, Money, Power. YOUR Country did that. So did mine.
my country does have blood on its hands and i have always denounced the bad things it has done but also highlighed its positives like stamping out the slave trade in africa using our naval might, in any case this has nothing to do with me or the rest of the country because none of us had any influence on those actions, however we do in the actions of our government today. The fact is if you listen to your president he talks about liberating iraqi's from the bath'ist regime, but like in all recent american wars civillian casulties have been unecessarily high with one of the main causes being american heavy handedness and of particular concern indescriminant targeting. And i feel confort in the fact that British troups have done a much better job in Iraq and they have secured relative calm in the south and have been working with communities reubuilding infrastructure etc. i'm sure any Iraqi would agree british troups have upheld a much better conduct during operations in Iraq.
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It's not like the execution of minors is a regular occurence. It's rarely done and only under special circumstance.