West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: acbaylove on March 04, 2005, 03:15:23 PM
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* READ INSIDE FOR MORE INFOS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED *
I dont have an article for it yet, but it's totally fucked up!
Italian SISME (our 007's) rescued our journalist, Giuliana Sgrena, from Iraqi terrorists this afternood. She was there from 1 month, they kidnapped her. They were in a car, driving to Baghdad. But Americans shoted on the car. A member of our SISME got killed, 2 other members were injured, and Giuliana Sgrena got injured too, they shot her on her shoulders (maybe they hit a lung).
Totally fucked up. I have no words to describe it.
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U.S. troops wound freed Italian, kill bodyguard
Friday, March 4, 2005 Posted: 4:29 PM EST (2129 GMT)
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena, freed after one month of captivity, was wounded and one of her bodyguards was killed when U.S. troops shot at her car near a Baghdad checkpoint Friday night, multinational officials said.
According to a multinational forces statement, the car approached the checkpoint at high speed about 9 p.m. (1 p.m. ET)
U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."
The statement said the other wounded person was a man who was treated at the scene but refused to go to the hospital.
Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi told reporters that Sgrena, 56, was in a car with three Italian security officers. (Full story)
Nicola Calipari was shielding Sgrena when he was killed, Berlusconi said.
Sgrena told Italian officials that she has a splinter in her left shoulder and will have minor surgery, Berlusconi said.
Berlusconi said he called U.S. Ambassador to Italy Mel Sembler to his office for an explanation of the shooting.
Sgrena, a reporter for Il Manifesto, was kidnapped outside a Baghdad mosque February 4.
Earlier Friday, attackers killed an Iraqi police chief, multinational forces officials said.
Col. Ghaib Hadab Zarib, the al-Budair police chief, was found dead near his home, about 45 kilometers (28 miles) east of Diwaniya, authorities said.
The gunmen shot him using an assault rifle and fled in a car, officials said.
One woman apparently was wounded in the attack.
On Thursday, gunmen tried to assassinate another police chief.
Col. Mou'ness Saeed, chief of al-Mouqdad police station in Kirkuk, was standing outside his car in southern Kirkuk with his guards late Thursday when gunmen opened fire from a vehicle driving by, Kirkuk police Chief Maj. Gen. Torhan Abdul Rahman said. The incident was the third assassination attempt on Saeed.
One of Saeed's guards was killed and a second critically wounded, but Saeed was unharmed.
Also Thursday, bombers struck two Iraqi security targets, killing five police officers near the Interior Ministry in Baghdad and another person in front of a police headquarters in Baquba, authorities said.
Insurgents ignited two explosive-laden vehicles near the Interior Ministry within minutes of each other, police said, after guards had stopped the vehicles. Another seven people were wounded.
In the Baquba incident, a suicide bomber detonated his car outside a headquarters for Iraqi emergency police, killing one person and wounding a dozen others, police and hospital sources said.
The attack appeared to target a convoy of Mudhafar Shahab Jiburi, chief of the police agency in Diyala province, police spokesman Sattar al-Karkhi said.
In response to recent insurgent attacks, interim Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi extended a state of emergency throughout the country for 30 days, his office said Thursday.
In a separate incident in Baghdad, an Iraqi army patrol fired on a vehicle as it approached a traffic control point. The vehicle and a vehicle behind it both exploded.
The incident is under investigation, said a spokesman for the U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division, who offered no other details.
www.cnn.com
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Dont take this the wrong way, but its sort of the italians fault.
Everyday americans who control the checkpoints are afraid for their lives that a car might have a bomb in it. The US military (according to the article) gave ample warning to this car (carrying the freed hostage) to stop at the checkpoint.
So when a car is speeding up to a checkpoint, and not obeying your warnings.....what are you supposed to do? Stand aside and hope this car is safe and not carrying a bomb?
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Dont take this the wrong way, but its sort of the italians fault.
Everyday americans who control the checkpoints are afraid for their lives that a car might have a bomb in it. The US military (according to the article) gave ample warning to this car (carrying the freed hostage) to stop at the checkpoint.
So when a car is speeding up to a checkpoint, and not obeying your warnings.....what are you supposed to do? Stand aside and hope this car is safe and not carrying a bomb?
Man i understand what you mean, but it's just a mistake. There's no justification. They were running from terrorists to the Bagdad Airport to save Giuliana Sgrena, and Americans shot 400 times against their cars!!! 400 times, man!
P.S. Italian version differs from the ones on that article anyway.
P.P.S. Bush apologized already. But Berlusconi is litterally furious.
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U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."
First of all the article never mentions (400 rounds) being fired at the car. Second it never mentions that after the car was stopped they continued to fire on it.
but if that is the case that they continued to fire on the car after it was stopped, then that is messed up.
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Man honestly how can you pretend the truth being said by Americans in this situation? That's just a quick article written by a journalist who simply reported the first version of Americans about the incident. Think about it: if Bush apologized to Berlusconi and Italians, if U.S. Ambassador is from more than a hour with Berlusconi trying to explain him what happened.. and if Americans opened an investigation to understand what happened.. then it's not an easy situation. And that's the second time. Some months ago friendly-fire incident involving Italians, American soldiers in northern Iraq shot at a car carrying the Italian official heading up U.S. efforts to recover Iraq's looted antiquities. Pietro Cordone, the top Italian diplomat in Iraq, was unhurt, but his Iraqi translator was killed. Fucked up. Anyway that versione (300-400 rifles, execution) was said by Giuliana Sgrena's boyfriend live on tv. He was there.
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maybe the italians should learn no means no
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Yeah, I heard about this earlier! Talking about some trigger-happy motherfuckers. Crazy.
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maybe the italians should learn no means no
Please post some mature shit or shut the fuck up. I'm totally pro-USA, and if you check my previous posts in this section you'll notice it. I'm not here to diss Americans or to speculate about it. But what happened cant be simply reduced to a "no means no". It was night, and it's a fact Americans shoots to everything that moves, in the night. Even animals. They've killed Americans too, before "us". Civils. Everybody that moves. But in this situation, it wasnt just "something". It was the whole Italian convoy with 3 cross country vehicles of Italian Army and 1 car with journalists. They shot at our vehicles! 300-400 rifles. One guy, our boss of secret investigation, got killed. Another one is hit and is risking to die. Another one got shot in the leg. And Giuliana Sgrena is under surgery cause she got hit in her left shoulder. Damn man!! They shot at the whole Italian convoy!!!!!!!!!!! How can you shot at a convoy of 3 cross country vehicles and a car with a big ITALIAN flag on the coffer. They simply shot cause it was dark, and they didnt see shit. But that's not a good reason to kill a "hero" and almost kill other 3 person. Expecially when Americans were co-operating with us in the mission to resque the journalist. No excuse. Somebody gotta pay for it.
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It's an accident, man. A fucked up situation that was destined to go bad. Now people are dead, senseless violence with no answers.
I heard a good one the other day.
Somebody asks the word "Why?"
and they get "Y is a crooked letter than can never be made straight".
And that's the truth of it, right? There's no answer! I can't explain to you anythign that will help you at all with this Antonio. There's a big war going on in the middle east, like there's always been a big war going on somewhere, and some people who were only trying to help (the Italians) got killed, by some other people who thought they were helping (The Americans). It's such a fucked up situation, it's crooked and it can never be made straight. There's no answers, when you die you still won't understand what the fuck happened today.
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I know, it's sad. Tonight it's like if they killed Spiderman, or Superman. You know, a hero. The guy who died was the one who rescued 2 other italians kidnapped (two women, maybe you remember that) and 3 other italian bodyguards kidnapped, who worked for an Iraqui society. He rescued Giuliana too. And when they shot to them, he was shielding her, and he got killed instead of her. It's hard to accept it's an American 20 years old "poor" guy who killed him like that. It's actually scaring. Shit happens, but this shit is terrible. The whole Nation was celebrating the fact they rescued Giuliana. They announced it on Al Jazzeera and here, on TV. Everybody was celebrating. Then the sad news. Giuliana is in the Hospital now. She's having a surgery to remove a bullet. The "hero" who saved her is dead. Another man is in critical conditions. And it was all over, man! A month of nightmares were over!!!!!!!!!! Till this shit happened! They were 15 mins away from the Airport! Crazy. You all cant understand it, man. It's like if French rescued their woman kidnapped and Americans killed her when she was about to get the airplane to come back to France!
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Like I said man, Y Is a crooked letter that can't be made straight.
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Yeah, thanx for understanding it, homie. I'm out to sleep. Peace.
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Rules Of Engagement say that if there is a threat or practice that is dangerous to the safety of others, you have a number of choices depending on the situation... of the situation lets you warn them person...then you get to warn them first...with warning shots, lights hand signals....
if the threat persiststhen you are allowed the use of deadly force
vehicles in iraq are considered a threat because everyone knows they can be made into bombs... there's even a chart that shows how far the blast radious will reach for each kind of vehicle...
anyways, the shots fired after the vehicle stopped falls under the part that says you do not have to cease fire until you know for sure the threat has been stopped... so just because a vehicle stops means that everything is going to be ok...
so far the article justifies the kind of force used...of course somethings might not be true but for now, it's the italians fault for being careless in a high security area
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Haha she was freed not rescued, what were they running from again ? lol ;D
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What do some of the bigots on here say all the time?... Oh yea... "consequence of war", "shit happens", "it's okay, it's well worth it"...
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Haha she was freed not rescued, what were they running from again ? lol ;D
Ok, freed. I'm not english. They were running from the terrorists, whatchu think? That area wasnt safe.
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Rules Of Engagement say that if there is a threat or practice that is dangerous to the safety of others, you have a number of choices depending on the situation... of the situation lets you warn them person...then you get to warn them first...with warning shots, lights hand signals....
if the threat persiststhen you are allowed the use of deadly force
vehicles in iraq are considered a threat because everyone knows they can be made into bombs... there's even a chart that shows how far the blast radious will reach for each kind of vehicle...
anyways, the shots fired after the vehicle stopped falls under the part that says you do not have to cease fire until you know for sure the threat has been stopped... so just because a vehicle stops means that everything is going to be ok...
so far the article justifies the kind of force used...of course somethings might not be true but for now, it's the italians fault for being careless in a high security area
You know what's strange? That it wasnt a common car, or a camion. It was 3 vehicles of Italian Army. And it all happened in 10 seconds. From the article it looks like it happened in 10 minutes! Naw. It was in 10 seconds. They were running, trying to find the way to go to the Airport. It was dark, somebody shooted at them. They probably said: "Damn, continue! It's a trap", and 10 seconds later it was all done. Now i'm not saying Americans intentionally wanted to kill them. It's a mistake. Shit happens, and everything. But still it's hard to accept it.
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But still it's hard to accept it.
LOL. 1 dead Italian is hard to accept, but thousands of Iraqis being killed is okay....
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But still it's hard to accept it.
LOL. 1 dead Italian is hard to accept, but thousands of Iraqis being killed is okay....
I never said it, so why are you laughing at it? The death of a man who saved another woman's life is never right. No matter if he is a terrorist, a civil, an italian, a hero, a criminal or an american; black, white or yellow. Italians didnt fight this war, you should have known this. Italians never killed a single Iraqi guy. But we've lost about 30 human lifes in Iraq, trying to help them. Doctors, journalists, Italian Police, Diplomats. And this is just another victim. They freed a journalist (leftwing anti-war, so now you know) who thanked Iraqi for her treatment while she was kidnapped as soon as she returned in Italy, this morning, and the second thing she said was to get out of Iraq cause Iraqi just want to be free from occupying forces. A strong political message against the war and pro-Iraqi. They didnt shot a Marine, man! They didnt shot people who fought the war against Iraqi. It was a Marine who shot them civils. They werent strapped, they were diplomats and members of SISME, like i said (our 007). And it's fucked up no matter from which perspective you see it. I understand you are sad about all the deaths of innocents.. well.. this one was just another innocent killed. There's nothing to laugh.
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if the americans were cooperating on the rescue mission then they are totally to blame for not communicating to the check point the Italian convoy was due to pass through.
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if the americans were cooperating on the rescue mission then they are totally to blame for not communicating to the check point the Italian convoy was due to pass through.
We're talking about 007's man, so they'll never admit it anyway. Both sides. Remember one of them got shot in the chest, but he refused to go to the Hospital cause he "doesnt exist" (if you know what i mean..) and we dont even know his name yet. We only know the name of the guy dead, cause he was the boss who directed all those missions, he was a diplomat, not just a 007. We will never know what really happened, cause it's all political now. When 007 are involved, it's always like that.
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SHOCKING NEWS!
Giuliana Sgrena's boyfriend just talked to the media. He said Giuliana is still recovering (she needs another surgery to remove a bullet), but she explained him what happened. She said they were 700 meters away from the Airport -just 15 seconds away with the car-, in a "supposed-to-be-safe" zone. They were talking live on the phone with Italian Ministry of Defence when the shit happened. Americans knew about the mission, and italians too, in fact an Airplane was ready to flight them back to Italy in the Airport. But something went wrong. After a curve, italians saw a big light and americans shooted 400 rifles on them. It wasnt a real check point, since nobody knew there was one over there (they moved it there some minutes before, you know.. sometimes they move their check points, expecially in the night). One man got killed trying to save the journalist, 3 others (including the hostage) got shot and injured. Americans approached their cars, confiscated their phones (they were still on the phone with the Ministry) and waited for more instructions several minutes. They didnt even sent the victims to the Hospital, since they didnt understand they were italians till after some minutes (wtf?). After that, they understood the mistake, and they sent the italians to the Hospital. It was too late for one of them. One of the refused to go to the Hospital, since he was a 007. Now Italian Police has opened an investigation cause Americans confiscated their phones and they didnt sent the victims to the Hospital as soon as possible. Plus italians were all experts who knew Iraq very well, so it's impossible they just didnt stop at a check point (they passed 2-3 other check points before that one). Now that's a really fucked up situation.
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cell phones have been used to remote activate bombs in iraq... i'd confiscate them too
one lesser known fact is once in awhile the US military will dial every cell phone in iraq randomly to try to make the bombs explode prematurely
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cell phones have been used to remote activate bombs in iraq... i'd confiscate them too
Yeah me too, probably. Obviously Americans did it cause they thought someone was attacking them. But it's fucked up what happened. Allies were there, shot and killed, trying to explain the situation. Terrible death. That's all.
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friendly fire is a mutha fucker americans killed more brits than the iraqi's did in both iraq wars
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Piss poor training^^^^^^
Communications Leadership problems
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(http://www.repubblica.it/2003/e/gallerie/esteri/salmacalipari/lapresse59075370603011648_big.jpg)
Medal Of Honor of the Italian Republic Nicola CALIPARI.
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ROME, Italy (CNN) -- Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has challenged the U.S. account of a shooting incident that left her wounded and an Italian intelligence officer dead shortly after her release by Iraqi insurgents. U.S.-led multi-national forces said the car carrying Sgrena was speeding and that soldiers fired warning shots in an attempt to stop it, before opening fire. But the 56-year-old journalist, currently being treated for a shoulder injury in a Rome hospital, said the car was not speeding. She told Italian La 7 TV on Sunday "there was no bright light, no signal," according to The Associated Press. And in an article for Sunday's edition of her newspaper, Il Manifesto, she said the shooting, which occurred Friday as agents were taking her to the airport in Baghdad, recalled her captors' warning that "the Americans don't want you to return." Il Manifesto, a left-leaning newspaper that has long opposed the Iraq war, even accused U.S. forces on Saturday of "assassinating" Nicola Calipari, who was killed protecting Sgrena from U.S. gunfire. Sgrena's partner, Pierre Scolari, blamed the shooting on the U.S. government, even suggesting the incident was intentional. "I hope the Italian government does something because either this was an ambush, as I think, or we are dealing with imbeciles or terrorized kids who shoot at anyone," he said, according to Reuters. Sgrena, who returned to Rome on Saturday, said she was doing well but was "upset" by the death of Calipari, who had led negotiations for the journalist's release. Two other agents were also wounded. Calipari's body arrived in Rome on Saturday night as top officials including Defense Minister Antonio Martino and Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi stood by. Calipari's wife, mother and two children were also present. An autopsy was performed on Sunday. The ANSA news agency reported doctors as saying the 50-year-old agent was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly. The body lay in state at Rome's Vittoriano monument, and a state funeral was planned for Monday. President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi said he would award Calipari the gold medal of valor for his heroism.
'Last breath'
Sgrena, who was kidnapped outside a mosque in Baghdad on February 4, said her captors treated her well and took her to meet the Italian security agents after blindfolding her, telling her, "don't give any signals of your presence with us, otherwise the Americans could intervene." She said she was in the car with the agents and heading for the airport, which was less than a mile away, when they approached the checkpoint. "I only remember fire," she wrote. "At that point, a rain of fire and bullets hit us." The driver began yelling that they were Italians, she wrote, and "Nicola Calipari threw himself on me to protect me and immediately, I repeat, immediately, I heard his last breath as he was dying on me." She said she remembered something her captors had told her: "They declared that they were committed to the fullest to freeing me, but I had to be careful -- 'the Americans don't want you to go back.'" At the time, she said, "I considered those words superfluous and ideological. At that moment they risked acquiring the flavor of the bitterest of truths."
The U.S. government has pledged a full investigation into the shooting incident and offered its condolences.
Multi-national forces have said troops tried to warn the driver of Sgrena's vehicle to stop using hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and firing warning shots in front of the car. The soldiers shot into the engine block when the driver did not stop, the forces said in a statement Friday. Italian magistrate Franco Ionta, however, said Sgrena, interviewed in her hospital room Saturday, gave a different version of events. "It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that shot as soon as they lit us up with a spotlight," she told him. "We didn't know where the bullets were coming from. We had not met other checkpoints before. Our car was absolutely not traveling at high speed." Rules of engagement permit coalition troops to use escalating levels of force if they feel threatened. They can use lethal force, for example, if a car refuses to stop for a checkpoint. The road where the incident took place is particularly dangerous, said CNN's Nic Robertson. Sgrena said she "risked everything" to challenge "the Italian government, who didn't want journalists to reach Iraq, and the Americans," who she said did not want the public to see "what really became of that country with the war, and notwithstanding that which they call elections." She said she told her captors they could not ask the Italian government to withdraw the 3,000 Italian troops from Iraq -- "their political go-between could not be the government but the Italian people, who were and are against the war."
Neither Italian nor American officials have revealed how Sgrena was freed, but there has been speculation about a possible ransom. One Iraqi lawmaker, Younadem Kana, told Belgian state TV Saturday he had "nonofficial" information that a $1 million (€760,000) ransom was paid, according to AP. Asked whether a ransom was paid, an Italian Cabinet minister said it was "very likely." "Moreover, it is largely preferable to pay an economic price than the price of a human life, or a political price that would consist of blackmail to pull out troops," Agriculture Minister Giovanni Alemanno told Corriere della Sera newspaper. The shooting prompted criticism from Berlusconi's political foes, who were eager to attack the government for its staunch support for the Iraq war. But officials with Italy's center right-government said the shooting would not affect support for the country's efforts to help secure postwar Iraq. "The military mission must carry on because it consolidates democracy and liberty in Iraq," said Communications Minister Maurizio Gasparri, quoted by the ANSA news agency.
CNN's Alessio Vinci and Elise Labott contributed to this report.
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ROME, Italy (CNN) -- Italians are celebrating the return of a reporter held captive by Iraqi insurgents for a month, but grieving over the killing by U.S. forces of a security officer who helped negotiate her release. Nicola Calipari, a veteran security agent who had previously aided the release of other Italian hostages, was shot dead while Giuliana Sgrena was being taken to an airport. Calipari's body arrived in Rome on Saturday night as top officials including Defense Minister Antonio Martino and Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi stood by. His coffin was wrapped in an Italian flag and was carried out of the military plane by a guard of honour. President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi held both hands up to the coffin, standing motionless in front of the body for almost two minutes before allowing it to be placed in a hearse, according to Reuters reports. The married father of two died Friday after the car he, Sgrena and two other agents were riding in was shot by U.S. forces at a checkpoint. Calipari was killed after he threw his body across Sgrena's to protect her, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said. Sgrena was struck in the left shoulder by shrapnel, and the two other agents were also wounded, he said. "Giuliana Sgrena, she is free," said the headline in Italy's leftist, antiwar Il Manifesto newspaper, where Sgrena works, but U.S. troops "assassinated her liberator." Another newspaper called Calipari an "007." The shooting came as a blow to Berlusconi, who has kept 3,000 troops in Iraq, and analysts said it could set off new protests in Italy, where tens of thousands have regularly demonstrated against the Iraq war. News of the shooting drew criticism from Berlusconi's political foes, who were eager to attack the government for its staunch support of the war. "Another victim of an absurd war," Alfonso Pecoraro Scanio, leader of the Green Party, told the Apcom news agency, according to The Associated Press. Sgrena's partner said he could not fault the U.S. soldiers, telling Reuters they were probably "scared boys," and the blame lay with those who had sent them to Iraq. In a written statement, the U.S.-led Multi-National Forces said the shootings occurred when the vehicle carrying Sgrena, traveling at high speeds, "refused to stop at a checkpoint." "About 9 p.m. (1800 GMT), a patrol in western Baghdad observed the vehicle speeding towards their checkpoint and attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car. When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block which stopped the vehicle, killing one." CNN's Nic Robertson said the coalition forces' rules of engagement permit them to use escalating levels of force if they feel threatened. They can use lethal force, for example, if a car refuses to stop for a checkpoint. The road where the incident took place, near Baghdad's airport, was particularly dangerous, Robertson added. Sgrena, 56, landed in Rome on Saturday morning. A crowd milled around the plane as Sgrena's relatives and dignitaries, including Berlusconi, boarded the plane to greet her. A few moments later, she emerged, walking with assistance from two men, and was taken to a nearby ambulance.
U.S. condolences
President Bush called Berlusconi on Friday night to express his regrets about the shootings, and pledged a full investigation. Sgrena and one of the security agents, who was seriously injured, were taken to a U.S. military hospital in Iraq after the shootings. The other wounded agent was shot in the leg, and refused to be taken to a hospital, according to Italian news agencies. The identities of the two wounded agents were not released. Speaking from Iraq, Sgrena reportedly told Berlusconi's office she was "fine" and would have a light operation to remove the shrapnel from her shoulder. Upon her return, she was admitted to a Rome hospital and was also to face questioning from Italian investigators and prosecutors. In the wake of the shootings, Berlusconi called U.S. Ambassador Mel Sembler to his office for an explanation, and the men were to meet, said State Department spokeswoman Darla Jordan. She said Sembler offered "U.S. condolences and any assistance the U.S. can provide," as did Assistant Secretary of State William Burns in a call to the Italian ambassador to the United States, Sergio Vento. Berlusconi said Sembler would have to "clarify" the behavior of the troops. "Someone will have to take responsibility," the prime minister said. He said the two other agents in the car contacted his office after the incident. "They were in disbelief at the fatality at the end of a brilliantly concluded operation," Berlusconi said. "We were stone silent as we waited to hear of the rest of what took place." Also Saturday, Reporters Without Borders, the journalists' watchdog group, asked the United Nations to investigate the matter and "shed light on the circumstances" that led to the tragedy. Italian officials had worked to secure Sgrena's safe release from capture. They did not say how she was freed Friday. Sgrena was kidnapped February 4 -- one month to the day before her release -- outside a mosque in Baghdad. Later that month, she was shown in a video pleading for her life. Italians have held numerous candlelight vigils calling for her safe return. Sgrena's co-workers were celebrating news of her release when news came of the shootings, according to a CNN producer at the scene. Their mood was immediately dampened. Pope John Paul II sent two messages of condolences, one to Berlusconi and another to Calipari's family, the Vatican said, according to AP. The pope said he was "saddened at the tragic death" of Calipari, and called him a "faithful and heroic servant of the state, who, in carrying out the delicate mission that had been given to him, didn't hesitate to sacrifice his life."
CNN's Alessio Vinci and Elise Labott contributed to this report.
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/europe/03/05/italy.iraq/story.casket.ap.jpg)
Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi touches the coffin of Nicola Calipari in Rome late Saturday
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Nice....she was freed because they gave the hostage takers a million dollars...that's money well spent
she also think that the US tried to assassinate her
this bitch has gotten too much publicity
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It's not just that "bitch", man. It's the whole italian convoy who denied American version of the facts. And some of them are diplomats and members of our intelligence, so you have to respect them (Americans dont really want to break their international relationships with our intelligence, there's no need to do that). Personally i dont think Americans wanted to kill her (it was denied by our intelligence anyway, it's just her saying so), that's just her getting shot and being paranoid after it (a man died on her hands..). But for sure our witnesses are giving a totally different interpretation to what it happened than America did in their first version of the story. So much that Bush said: "Let's finish the investigations before we quickly jump to the conclusions". And i think they already admitted it wasnt a real check-point, but just a patrol.
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It's not just that "bitch", man. It's the whole italian convoy who denied American version of the facts. And some of them are diplomats and members of our intelligence, so you have to respect them (Americans dont really want to break their international relationships with our intelligence, there's no need to do that). Personally i dont think Americans wanted to kill her (it was denied by our intelligence anyway, it's just her saying so), that's just her getting shot and being paranoid after it (a man died on her hands..). But for sure our witnesses are giving a totally different interpretation to what it happened than America did in their first version of the story. So much that Bush said: "Let's finish the investigations before we quickly jump to the conclusions". And i think they already admitted it wasnt a real check-point, but just a patrol.
i understand tht but this lady is blowing things out of proportion for her own self interests... she's making outlandish claims and she's not adding anything to the investigations but lies...
she didn't tell exactly how she was freed/rescued... other people had to investigate into it...because you can't actually be proud of giving a million dollars to hostage takers....this is like giving a van and some gas certificates to some child molesters
she tells the heart wrenching story that that guy died in her arms when an autopsy was performed on him...it said he died instanly from a single GSW to the head
then she spreads rumours that the US tried to assassinate her.
and the only different account they are giving is that they weren't speeding and there wasn't supposed to be an american unit there... they did see bright lights...which were warnings to stop... the first shots went into the engine block of the car which more than likely caused the driver to panic (shit i know i would) and then the whole situation escalated from there
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until yesterday i didnt hear the part of the story where they paid the hostage takers money for her freedom.
....Am i the only one who finds that wrong?
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i understand tht but this lady is blowing things out of proportion for her own self interests... she's making outlandish claims and she's not adding anything to the investigations but lies... she didn't tell exactly how she was freed/rescued... other people had to investigate into it...
True that. I never liked this journalist. She's an antiamerican leftwinger no-war noglobal pro-peace journalist who makes books, so she 99% exaggerated with that "i know things American dont want me to say". Just to add you something about this "bitch", she thanked Iraqi guys who kidnapped her cause they treated her well. An extremely dumb statement, if you ask me. Expecially when the guy who saved you from them is dead in your hands. I'm the opposite of this "bitch". I'm pro-american rightwinger and i hate noglobals, so i'm in no way defending her. I dont give a fuck about her. I want the truth for the poor hero who died.
because you can't actually be proud of giving a million dollars to hostage takers....this is like giving a van and some gas certificates to some child molesters
Actually nobody confirmed it. It wasnt our Minister to say we paid a million dollar. It was an Iraqi Minister, but we didnt confirm it. Who knows? Anyway they kidnapped a pro-Iraqi guy, so i'm sure they just wanted some money. They didnt give a fuck about Iraq, man. That's for sure. Cause money bought them.
she tells the heart wrenching story that that guy died in her arms when an autopsy was performed on him...it said he died instanly from a single GSW to the head
When we say somebody died in our hands, we italian means "because of me", not litterally "in our hands".
then she spreads rumours that the US tried to assassinate her.
Bullshit. I agree. I'm saying that from the first post.
and the only different account they are giving is that they weren't speeding and there wasn't supposed to be an american unit there... they did see bright lights...which were warnings to stop... the first shots went into the engine block of the car which more than likely caused the driver to panic (shit i know i would) and then the whole situation escalated from there
There are more details they revealed only to our prosecutor. But that changes everything, imo. Cause you cant blame italians no more, this way. It's just a mistake, like i'm saying from the first post. But this way somebody could be investigated for culpable homicide.
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until yesterday i didnt hear the part of the story where they paid the hostage takers money for her freedom.
....Am i the only one who finds that wrong?
It's unconfirmed. But man, it happens more than you expect.
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good old italy using their brain
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italians never were any good in military operations so no wonder they payed up, my grandad always told me their tanks had one forward gear and four in reverse during ww2. lol
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italians never were any good in military operations
No doubt. In fact we aint there fighting the war. We're there with Carabinieri, Police, doctors, with our Red Cross..
We're very good in those missions of peacekeeping, one of the best.
But we cant fight a war.
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italians never were any good in military operations so no wonder they payed up, my grandad always told me their tanks had one forward gear and four in reverse during ww2. lol
gear box in backwards....
shame they didnt have ferrari tanks.. we'd have been fucked... 8) 8)
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8)
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man that lady is awesome... look at the quotes of her situation
But in an interview with Italy's La 7 Television, the 56-year-old journalist said "there was no bright light, no signal."
And Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena reported the incident was not at a checkpoint, but rather that the shots came from "a patrol that shot as soon as they lit us up with a spotlight."
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Rules of engagement permit coalition troops to use escalating levels of force if they feel threatened. They can use lethal force, for example, if a car refuses to stop for a checkpoint.
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U.S. Rules of Engagement
1. Check if the person is white.
2. If the person is white, be cautious, and only fire if being fired at. If the person is not white, blast the fucker.
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U.S. Rules of Engagement
1. Check if the person is white.
2. If the person is white, be cautious, and only fire if being fired at. If the person is not white, blast the fucker.
you're way off
we still friendly fire british
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man that lady is awesome... look at the quotes of her situation
But in an interview with Italy's La 7 Television, the 56-year-old journalist said "there was no bright light, no signal."
And Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena reported the incident was not at a checkpoint, but rather that the shots came from "a patrol that shot as soon as they lit us up with a spotlight."
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Rules of engagement permit coalition troops to use escalating levels of force if they feel threatened. They can use lethal force, for example, if a car refuses to stop for a checkpoint.
Man once again it happened in a few seconds. It was night, it was raining, visibility was not good. Italians were experts, not dumb. They probably didnt see Americans. Americans saw italians. They started shooting. Some bullets hit the car, and italians probably thought for a second it was a trap, since it was dark. It's a misunderstanding. But those "rules of engagement" arent the excuse to shot everybody that moves. The day before they shot some civils. The month before they shot one of our diplomat as a mistake. Shit they killed american and english soldiers too, with this "friendly fire". They shot they own helicopters. They shot Iraqi diplomats. I understand the pressure on those young guys who risks their life, but shit, friendly-fire is doing more damage than Saddam's army.
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But still it's hard to accept it.
LOL. 1 dead Italian is hard to accept, but thousands of Iraqis being killed is okay....
i kinda agree. More than 100,000 iraqui civilian casualties > 1 Journalist. Don't be outraged. Shit like this happens all the time
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But still it's hard to accept it.
LOL. 1 dead Italian is hard to accept, but thousands of Iraqis being killed is okay....
i kinda agree. More than 100,000 iraqui civilian casualties > 1 Journalist. Don't be outraged. Shit like this happens all the time
1 jounalist? naw, she's still alive, and i dont give a fuck about her.
Italy has lost 25 Carabinieri's in Iraq (it's our Police, people who helped Iraqi to build streets, to repair bridges, to fix electric power, to protect our Red Cross..), 2 doctors, 1 diplomat who was saving an hostage (this one) and 4 civils.
Those are victims = iraqui civilian casualties. Same sad shit.
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Those are victims = iraqui civilian casualties. Same sad shit.
.....not even close
25(cops)+2(doctors)+1(diplomat)=28 total deaths which does not = 100,000 civillian casualties.
I think your being a drama queen about this whole ACCIDENT
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No, i think you are exploiting this death now. I've never used this death to blame Americans. I've never used this death to blame Berlusconi. I've never used this death to blame Iraqi or muslims. I've just reported a fact from Italian perspective. You are doing the same from your. That's it. It's not me the one who compared deaths. Imo, it's a great mistake to do that. I just said that those deaths are "sad" like the ones of innocent civilians. Cause all the deaths of innocent people is sad. I didnt compared 100,000 human lifes to 28. Read better. P.S. We're talking about an ITALIAN medal of honor. Maybe you dont give a fuck, and i understand it, but we do. It's a touching death, for us. It's a guy who served our Country and died for it. I'm sure there are a lot of "shocking" deaths too, in your Country. A mother who killed her son, a muslim who killed a christian (or viceversa), a dogg who killed a little boy.. whatever! This death is shocking for us. Oh, and just to let you understand how "touching" it was, more than 10,000 people assisted to his funeral. Then it's an accident, i know. But to say that doesnt mean there are no responsables. You can go to jail for culpable homicide too.
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Tonight our most important TV talk-show will talk about this accident. They will interview everyone involved plus US Ambassador and other important people. I'll keep you all informed.
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They said it's impossible Americans didnt know about our "mission", infact they changed their first version of the story ("we didnt know about the mission") with a new one ("we knew it, but there was a lack of communication"). It changes everything. Americans knew it, in fact they are the only ones to control the Airport. And there was an italian airplane who landed there some minutes before, so they had their authorization and Americans checked it front to back. They knew about this mission. They probably didnt communicate well between American intelligence and American army. So the patrol probably didnt know there was a car coming there. About the shooting, our members of intelligence still alive confirmed they werent driving fast, no way. In fact Americans changed their version about that too. Plus they didnt have time to stop, since Americans suddenly started to shooting. For 10 long seconds, damaging the car's engine, hitting 2 guys, killing one and injuring Giuliana Sgrena. Pratically them all. About the cellulars, they're still confiscated by Americans, and they aint giving them back to our prosecutor yet. But they are sending him the damaged car to make ballistic tests. American ambassador is again in Berlusconi's office as i write. If you didnt know, to officially call an ambassador in your office is the strongest thing you can diplomatically do to another Country. It never happened in our history before, just to let you understand how deep and important is this thing. Not even for the massacre of Ustica or the one of Cermis, if you know what i'm talking about. Bush better handle it well. We will probably ask American ambassador the cellulars and the transcripts of the interrogations of the soldiers who made the mistake. And their names. Americans legally can refuse to cooperate, since they are "military secrets", but my feeling is that if they do it, they'll loose the best ally they have in Europe at the moment breaking once forever the international relationships between USA and Europe/rest of the world. We will see. The damaged car will arrive in Italy tomorrow or the next day. Other important things i'm hearing.. Giuliana Sgrena denied she knew "special secrets" Americans didnt want her to know. And it's pacific that they didnt shot 400 rifles on them. She lied. But that's because she's a communist lefwinger noglobal antiamerican bitch. Fucking communists! She also said an important thing about those manifestations pro-peace communists and antiamericans use to do. She said the people who kidnapped her used to watch tv. When they saw thousands of people manifesting for her and burning the american flag, they used to say: "You see it? You're famous! People is with us! We did a good thing kidnapping you!!". So instead of helping negotiations, those manifestations drove the negotiations into the payment of a ransom, probably. Fucking morons!
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don't forget britain tony blair is a strong supporter of bush too
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don't forget britain tony blair is a strong supporter of bush too
Yeah, if you cut Great Britain and Israel, who storically are very close to Americans, we're up there, probably 3rd. And we're very important politically for Bush, in Europe. Remember Berlusconi is a very good friend of Putin too.
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Okay, this thread has blown up to three pages, I don't have time to read everything, I'm kind of behind on this event. Could somebody just break it down for me in a few sentences what has happened?
I have a few questions.
I heard from someone that the news said American's shot her on purpose? Is there any truth to that? Was she some kind of threat to America? And was the event an accident?
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Okay, this thread has blown up to three pages, I don't have time to read everything, I'm kind of behind on this event. Could somebody just break it down for me in a few sentences what has happened?
A convoy of Italians freed an hostage from Iraqi, and on their way to the airport, at about 700mt from it, an american patrol friendly fired them killing one man (medal of honor), hitting the kidnapped journalist and injuring (but we dont know more, since i'm talking about 007's) one or two more guys.
I have a few questions. I heard from someone that the news said American's shot her on purpose? Is there any truth to that? Was she some kind of threat to America? And was the event an accident?
They are still investigating about it. I think they didnt shot them on purpose (simply cause they didnt kill her, so..), but it was a lack of communication between American intelligence (they knew about the mission and about our convoy coming to the airport, since the airport is totally controlled by Americans and our airplane was ready to flight the hostage to Italy) and American army (i mean that patrol). The patrol was a mobile one, so it happened it was there that moment. They were probably scared (it's a dangerous zone) and they opened fire. The convoy wasnt going fast... it's a culpable homicide, imo. Not an assault.
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(CNN) -- Italy's foreign minister has openly disputed the U.S. military's account of the shooting death of an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq. Gianfranco Fini ruled out suggestions that U.S. forces might have deliberately targeted the Italians, but he told parliament Tuesday there were discrepancies between Italian and U.S. accounts. Fini restated Rome's demand for a full explanation from the Americans, putting fresh pressure on Washington. U.S. President George W. Bush has promised Italy a full investigation would be conducted. "It was certainly an accident, an accident caused by a series of circumstances and coincidences," Fini said. "But this doesn't mean, in fact it makes it necessary, to demand that events are clarified, to ask for explanations of the points that are still unclear, to identify those responsible, and if people are to blame then to request and obtain that the guilty parties are punished," he said. Fini's comments come a day after Italy held a state funeral for agent Nicola Calipari, 50, who was killed when a convoy carrying freed Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena was hit by a barrage of gunfire from U.S. troops when it did not stop at a checkpoint Friday night. Fini gave parliament a detailed reconstruction of the incident, insisting the Italians had been driving slowly and had received no warning before the attack -- counter to suggestions by U.S. authorities. "The car was traveling at a velocity that couldn't have been more than 40 kilometers (25 miles) per hour," Fini said, adding there were no attempts to stop the car as indicated by the U.S. military. Immediately after the fatal shooting, U.S. soldiers apologized profusely to Sgrena and an unnamed intelligence officer who survived the gunfire, Fini said. He said Calipari, an experienced officer who had negotiated the release of other hostages in Iraq in the past, "made all the necessary contacts with the U.S. authorities," both with those in charge of airport security and with the forces patrolling areas next to the airport. "The government has a duty to point out that the reconstruction of the tragic event that I have set out and as emerges from the direct account of our secret service official who was with Dr. Calipari does not coincide, totally, with what has been said so far by the U.S. authorities," Fini said. Earlier Tuesday, a senior U.S. official said the checkpoint where Calipari was killed had been set up for the passage of the U.S. ambassador to Iraq on the road to the Baghdad airport. Ambassador John Negroponte had been expected to pass the Baghdad-area checkpoint a short time later, the official said. Sgrena, a journalist, had just been freed by kidnappers after a month in captivity and was being escorted by Italian security agents to safety. Calipari, 50, threw his body across Sgrena when U.S. troops opened fire. The details surrounding the incident have been widely disputed by Sgrena, who said there was no checkpoint. "Our car was driving slowly ... the Americans fired without motive," Sgrena said. In an article published Sunday in her communist newspaper, Il Manifesto, Sgrena described a "rain of fire and bullets" in the incident. The U.S. military said Sgrena's car rapidly approached a checkpoint Friday night, and those inside ignored repeated warnings to stop. Troops used arm signals and flashing white lights, fired warning shots in front of the car, and shot into the engine block when the driver did not stop, the military said in a statement. But in an interview with Italy's La 7 Television, the 56-year-old journalist said "there was no bright light, no signal." And Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena reported the incident was not at a checkpoint, but rather that the shots came from "a patrol that shot as soon as they lit us up with a spotlight." It remains unclear whether U.S. officials knew that the Italian security team would be taking Sgrena to the airport. Sgrena was slightly wounded in the shoulder and underwent treatment at a U.S. hospital in Baghdad. She is now back in Rome, getting follow-up treatment at the city's military hospital. Sgrena has promised Calipari's widow she would find out why they were attacked. CNN's Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci said Sgrena was not ruling out the possibility that the Americans may have targeted her on purpose because the U.S. opposed negotiating with kidnappers. The White House on Monday rejected the suggestion, as did Italy's foreign minister. "I think it's absurd to make any such suggestion that our men and women in uniform deliberately targeted innocent civilians. That's just absurd," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Monday. Italian media suggest a ransom was paid for her release, but government officials are not commenting on the reports. The Italian government has paid ransoms to free other hostages in the past. An autopsy found Calipari, an experienced negotiator who had previously secured the release of other Italian hostages in Baghdad, was killed by a single shot to the head and died instantly.
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Italy officially confirmed we didnt pay a single $ to free Giuliana Sgrena, and we never did.