West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on April 03, 2005, 06:08:04 PM
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I stole this topic from another forum.....
I think Jay-Z, Ja Rule, DMX... those are the cats that ruined hip-hop in the late 90's. Because they all claimed to be street, and claimed to represent true hip-hop, etc., etc., but they were all fake, and they were all just products of Def Jam's magnificent marketing machine.
The reason I didn't say Puffy and Mase is because they were linked to Biggie. And Biggie was a true artist. The farther we get away from the passing of Biggie, the less we hear about Puffy. So really I just link those cats to Biggie, and Biggie was dope.
The reason I didn't say Master P is because Master P was just doing what he knew. He was just a businessman coming in the game with all that street energy and he took it and beat everybody at their own game. No Limit never claimed to represent the essence of hip-hop, they never claimed to be great lyricists.
... Why I say Jay-Z and those cats ruined hip-hop is because Jay-Z claims to represent the essence of hip-hop. And if you follow his carear and follow the singles he's put out and the image he portrays, he's robbing the culture in my opinion. In my opinion hip-hop was not just an artform, but a tool created to elevate the consciousness of oppressed people in America.
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master p
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Jay-Z
Timbaland
Master P
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nobody.
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For me it was Master P. He brought forth a trend of bullshit into the game.
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DMX ruined Hiphop??? lol........
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DMX - Born Loser
that was ill shit ;D
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I don't think you can really run it to one person, I think basically hiphop became a joke because you had a lot of people who misunderstood what the fuck was going on. Basically the entire "Gangsta" Rap movement was a precarious thing, everyone knew NWA, Dre, Cube, Eazy, etc. weren't REALLY Gangsters, and they were saying just incredibly outlandish things, but somehow they balanced that and pulled it off, where even though you knew Ice Cube had never killed anyone, you enjoyed listening to him rap about killing people. It's really pretty weird.
After a few years of that, everything got strange, Rap started getting more and more negative, people took the shit seriously, started killing people, started judging whether people were 'real' or not on whether or not they were in a gang or were 'hard', all that shit, THAT is when hip-hop went bad.
You can't pin that shit on Master P, or P-diddy, because they were just doing what they do. It's the assholes who were running around killing people and taking shit to the next level that I would blame for hiphop falling to what it is today, that might not sound right, because generally hiphop's more mellow now than it was then... but they ruined the entire Gangsta Rap scene and just fucked all the creativity that was going on there, all the intelligent inspiration these cats had, and fucked all that up, ruined a whole musical movement, made everything super-negative, and now all that's left is the bubblegum-rap, which was always there anyways. I'd blame it more on Tupac than I would Master P, I'm serious.
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DMX ruined Hiphop??? lol........
idd lol...
I think those cats who are in murder inc (not ja rule but all the others) sucked ...
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gotta be chip fu
his refusal to release a 3 cd solo album was a tremendous detriment to the genre
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What ruined hip-hop in the late 90's, that's simple, it was all the lable mergers. Since in the early 90's the establishment could not get ride of hip-hop, it bought it.
Def Jam was merged with Island and Russell Simmons sold his part. Def Jam went from the lable of Public Enemy and Slick Rick to JAy-Z and Ja Rule, but a more commerical Jay-Z and Ja Rule. Jive Records, the home of some of the greatest acts in hip-hop history like Boogie Down Productions, began releasing poppy boy bands. Suge being in jail made Death Row fall apart, Dre selling more chunks of Aftermath to support Chronic 2001 gave Interscope TOO much power over Aftermath, Ruthless dispite having a groupe like Bone Thugs N Harmany could not stay as a major lable, no matter how much money they raped Bone Thugs out of. Cash Money and No Limit came out with that southern music that people liked, and the southern sound was taking over, which I don't see as a bad thing. BUT, Universal controlled Cash Money and Master P was lucky he caught the same deal out of Priority that Eazy E did with Ruthless. The problem, Priority was not releasing anyone else, and raped Ras Kass. Lables like Rawkus, which hip-hop was build on lables of it's kind, could not keep up in terms of money. Independent lables in the Bay were being drowned out by big lables paying money to have their artist played on the radio. At the same time many radio stations were becoming part of huge nation wide chain of stations that were all sister stations. Local radio which played local acts were becoming a rearity and the diversity of music played on stations was shrinking.
In short, hip-hop was bought off and those with money survived. Had Jay-Z not sold his soul with the hot singles formula, he would not bee see as a legend, and he still represented the culture. He was the middle guy, someone who the lables could like because he sold, and someone real hip-hop people could like. The problem was that real hip-hop people used him as a poster boy for everything that was wrong with hip-hop at the time. If it was not Jay-Z, it would have been Nelly, or someone else. So who ruined hip-hop, no one, but finally the big lables grapped control of the situation, and the radio stations grapped control, and pushed what was hip-hop out, and replaced it with the trash we see today.
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everyone knew NWA, Dre, Cube, Eazy, etc. weren't REALLY Gangsters, and they were saying just incredibly outlandish things,
The rest of the post was on point but the shit they were talkin about was not outlandish. It might not have been shit that they dealt with first hand, but the things they were talkin about were things that were really goin on on the turf.
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gotta be chip fu
his refusal to release a 3 cd solo album was a tremendous detriment to the genre
lmao
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stupid wiggers not realizing what the culture´s about at all?
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2 Pac.. people stopped being innovative and tried to fill the void he left..
Jay-Z too.. just coz I ain't ever liked him
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I love his music but I gotta say 2pac.. it's not directly his fault though. And all the people who made bullshit songs and sold a lot of records, so other potentially good rappers tried the same and therefore made records that sucked.
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money did.
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The eastcoast
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I dunno how anyone can say Jay-Z.. he might not be the best, but songs like;
- Dead Presidents
- I Love the Dough
- Renegade
- Encore
- 99 Problems
didn't ruin hiphop @ all. Check out all his albums, sure he has some commercial tracks to get play on the radio, but most of his songs are solid. people like Ja Rule, Cam'ron & Dipset, Fabolous, Nelly.. those are the ones that continue to ruin hiphop. Most credible & decent MCs say shit actually worth listening to on their albums
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How did 2pac ruin Hip-Hop in the Late 90s???
Just because people tried to copy him doesnt mean he runied hip-hop.
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^^ indirectly, yes. that doesn´t make him the scapegoat
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how tha fuck did DMX destroy hip hop? he´s actually one of the most important persons in hip hop in the late 90´s coz when Jay,Puff,Mase,Master P etc etc were all busy as fuck talkin bout flossing and running around and dancing in their shiny suits X came and brought it back to the streets so that´s something positive IMO. and all y´all Jay-Z stans don´t try to act like he wasn´t runnin around in his shiny suits too coz he was.
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Who ruined hip hop in the late 90's?
Orlando Anderson
Amir Muhammad
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money did.
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I love his music but I gotta say 2pac.. it's not directly his fault though. And all the people who made bullshit songs and sold a lot of records, so other potentially good rappers tried the same and therefore made records that sucked.
how did 2pac ruin hip hop???? if anything he brought it to a whole new higher level.
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Who ruined hip hop in the late 90's?
Orlando Anderson
Amir Muhammad
Yes, also
I think it was runied because the Hip-Hop culture became more materialistic.
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hip hop went downhill when kris kross stopped recording
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The eastcoast
basically
i don't have anything against east coast hip hop, but hip hop from all other (american) regions is better :-X
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The eastcoast
basically
i don't have anything against east coast hip hop, but hip hop from all other (american) regions is better :-X
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA
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The eastcoast
basically
i don't have anything against east coast hip hop, but hip hop from all other (american) regions is better :-X
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA
even the midwest?
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Nice discussion, there were a lot of good answers to the question. I agree with the cat above who said Orlando Anderson. Because if it hadn't of been for 2pac's death, Jay-Z and alot of wack East Coast artists probably would have never seen the success that he did.
By the way, the question was who? not what? Some people answered and described "what" they thought ruined hip-hop. I was really referring to a rapper or rappers, but it's all good, it's been a good discussion. Like that one cat who said that Label mergers ruined hip-hop I definitely agree with that, it stunted the creativity of hip-hop. Because now you got to have one of the superpower labels behind you to stand out in this watered hip-hop game. Another cat said money, no doubt. I'm going to mention something nobody else mentioned. Illegal downloading. College kids sitting in their dorm rooms all day downloading 1,000 songs a week and never buying one album. This may not ruin Eminem's carear, but rappers like Ras Kass or Canibus can't survive 200,000 of their record sales being illegally downloaded.
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but do you really think that college kid download that many copies of ras kass or canibus? they be lucky if the number was that high. its probably round 1,000 copies
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Hip-hop wasn't ruined in the late 90s but hip-hop did start to become very commercialize in 1997 and that's thanks to Puffy.
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whoever shot Pac ruined hip hop
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eminem, he bought a bunch of dumb white muthafuckaz to the scene who dont know shit about hiphop, who only bump eminem, n then he comes with these wack 1st singles, that only gets played on radio, therefore everyone tryna make the same 1st radio friendly single, which fuckin up everyone
nah truth is nobody is fuckin up hiphop apart from the new muthafuckaz or next muthafuckaz who dont understand the culture..
a cat who aint got no respect for those who made the foundations of hiphop aint shit, thats to both todays artists and fans...
and obviously money.......niggaz get some bread n go different routes they came up from..
but speakin of all that, aint hardly anything else but hiphop get check from me still, new and old
peace
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eminem, he bought a bunch of dumb white muthafuckaz to the scene who dont know shit about hiphop, who only bump eminem, n then he comes with these wack 1st singles, that only gets played on radio, therefore everyone tryna make the same 1st radio friendly single, which fuckin up everyone
nah truth is nobody is fuckin up hiphop apart from the new muthafuckaz or next muthafuckaz who dont understand the culture..
a cat who aint got no respect for those who made the foundations of hiphop aint shit, thats to both todays artists and fans...
and obviously money.......niggaz get some bread n go different routes they came up from..
but speakin of all that, aint hardly anything else but hiphop get check from me still, new and old
peace
say wut u gotta say about eminem but i think he didnt ruin hip-hop....cuz even thou he brings funny ass 1st singles...he didnt switch to bling bling and club bangin trax and all that shit thats killin' hip-hop... instead he brought lyrical shit and emotional tracks to listen to....something that not too many commercial rappers would and still dont do ....who gives a fuck if he's white ....i think its good that a white boy is on top...and just proves that anyone can make it and anyone can have skills...but who i think ruined hip-hop was p.diddy ....dude cant rap...and instead rapped about money and shit...which is wuts going on today
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p diddy of course. but he made a lot of money fucking it up.
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p diddy of course. but he made a lot of money fucking it up.
Ya I think puffy started the trend with all the bling and shiny shit and other rappers and stuff saw him makin all this money by doing that, and realized they could make that much money if they just do the same thing...thats why randomly in the video for Hate Me Now nas is wearing a shiny ass suit just like puffy doing the same stuff (although the track is dope)
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the mainstreaming ???
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Nobody ruined hip-hop, the true shit has not been brought down altho several wack rappers and the industry have tried. its the rappers and fans who love hip-hop who keep it goin strong.
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p diddy of course. but he made a lot of money fucking it up.
Everyone keeps saying P Diddy. P Diddy didn't ruin hip-hop! Bad Boy was one of the illest labels in the 90's. Puffy's first solo album, No Way Out, is classic. That is a full album that carries a mood and sound from top to bottom.
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Mac Dre and Big Boi from Outkast
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nice responses hence to the different ways you interpret stuff. good thread. as good as 2pac is, he heavily contributed to the downfall of hiphop. that doesnt always imply that his music sucked. you also shouldnt forget about the fact that he engineered that ridiculous east/west beef, even if he didnt mean it to be and to end this way. also, he stomped on orlando first.
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who hasnt?
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who hasnt?
lol.. -Euthanasia- is definitely my favorite poster in here.
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master p
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LOL @ mentioning Jay-Z. ::)
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even the midwest?
excluding d12 :P