West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on May 11, 2005, 02:41:29 PM
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For that matter is Iyad Allawi any different than George Bush?
People act suprised that anti-occupational forces in Iraq are killing Iraqi police officers and politicians. Do you people realize that Iraq was taken over by the American military in 2003, and therefore, until America leaves, politicians and police officers in Iraq work for America?
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
Did you forget the part about Iraqi police officers running up in people's cribs and blowing their heads off? Or the part about Iraqi politicians always blaming "insurgents" for any problems the country is having, nevermind the fact that 140,000 foriegn troops have just came and murdered 100,000 Iraqi's in an effort to steal their natural resources and expand their global reach? Did you forget that part of it?
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Did you forget the part about Iraqi police officers running up in people's cribs and blowing their heads off? Or the part about Iraqi politicians always blaming "insurgents" for any problems the country is having, nevermind the fact that 140,000 foriegn troops have just came and murdered 100,000 Iraqi's in an effort to steal their natural resources and expand their global reach? Did you forget that part of it?
(http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/SoldierWith%20WoundedChild.jpg)
Major Mark Bieger found this little girl after the car bomb that attacked our guys while kids were crowding around. The soldiers here have been angry and sad for two days. They are angry because the terrorists could just as easily have waited a block or two and attacked the patrol away from the kids. Instead, the suicide bomber drove his car and hit the Stryker when about twenty children were jumping up and down and waving at the soldiers. Major Bieger, I had seen him help rescue some of our guys a week earlier during another big attack, took some of our soldiers and rushed this little girl to our hospital. He wanted her to have American surgeons and not to go to the Iraqi hospital. She didn't make it. I snapped this picture when Major Bieger ran to take her away. He kept stopping to talk with her and hug her.
The soldiers went back to that neighborhood the next day to ask what they could do. The people were very warming and welcomed us into their homes, and many kids were actually running up to say hello and to ask soldiers to shake hands.
Eventually, some insurgents must have realized we were back and started shooting at us. The American soldiers and Iraqi police started engaging the enemy and there was a running gun battle. I saw at least one IP who was shot, but he looked okay and actually smiled at me despite the big bullet hole in his leg. I smiled back.
One thing seems certain; the people in that neighborhood share our feelings about the terrorists. We are going to go back there, and if any terrorists come out, the soldiers hope to find them. Everybody is still very angry that the insurgents attacked us when the kids were around. Their day will come.
Michael Yon
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/05/little-girl.html
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^^^^ America created the chaotic conditions of Iraq, and if the soldiers really cared about Iraqi's they would pack up and go home.
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You really are a sick person...
A suicide bomber drove his bomb into a bunch of KIDS and you blame the americans for his actions.
Fuck your beliefs.
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The next day bloodier than the previous..
I bet those Iraqis love their newborn freedom. (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Talk about underestimating the resistance, but maybe they don't give a shit now that Saddam is captured..
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Why not read up what NORMAL EVERYDAY Iraqi's think about whats going on in their country?
http://democracyiniraq.blogspot.com/
http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/
http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
http://jarrarsupariver.blogspot.com/
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
Did you forget the part about Iraqi police officers running up in people's cribs and blowing their heads off? Or the part about Iraqi politicians always blaming "insurgents" for any problems the country is having, nevermind the fact that 140,000 foriegn troops have just came and murdered 100,000 Iraqi's in an effort to steal their natural resources and expand their global reach? Did you forget that part of it?
so the terrorists are better because they kill in the name of allah... ok now we're getting somewhere...
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Woodrow and Needles, you guys are very good at blaming the victim. I suppose I am supposed to blame "insurgents" for the chaos in Iraq because when they attack an American soldier occupying their country sometimes non-combatants are killed unintentionally in the ambush.
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Woodrow and Needles, you guys are very good at blaming the victim. I suppose I am supposed to blame "insurgents" for the chaos in Iraq because when they attack an American soldier occupying their country sometimes non-combatants are killed unintentionally in the ambush.
Blaming the victim?!
These "insurgents" are nothing more than street thugs who are paid to kill.
Like it was said in the post beofre, these people are killing innocent iraqi's on purpose. There's nothing unintentional about it.
You're a sick fuck for supporting it.
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Woodrow and Needles, you guys are very good at blaming the victim. I suppose I am supposed to blame "insurgents" for the chaos in Iraq because when they attack an American soldier occupying their country sometimes non-combatants are killed unintentionally in the ambush.
just admit it, you are a fucked up, confused white person and you won't see us point out that you're a fucked up confused white person anymore
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
lol I wanna see that happen to America ;D
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These "insurgents" are nothing more than street thugs who are paid to kill.
It is unlikely that someone would hide out in caves and swamps and get bombs dropped on their head, just to make some money.
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Infinite, i really dont know if your comprehending whats being said. i think what some are trying to say is, why are you defending the insurgents when they crash their car bombs into a group of kids. and blaming american soldiers is not helping anything. i dont know any sick ass soldier who wants to go to iraq, muchless go there and shoot people, muchless shoot kids, and im sure any shooting or harm done to children was unintentional and the soldiers will live with that for the rest of their lives, the soldiers arent the problem, theyre doing what they were told to do by bushand the american government so that he could "save" our country from disaster. well bush is a dumbass no nothing fuck... so forget him, if you wanna blame anyone, blame bush, not those who are made to go to iraq and fight, only the crazy ones really wanna kill someone and you cant be mental and in the army, unless you go mental while youre in the army, so i guess the insurgents are all crazy too, and rich pimps in swamps watching their tivo
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what it comes down to is selective memory and using facts of convinience
i make no stand on this lil bickering
but if there was no iraq invasion there would be no insurgents attackin children and all this chaos.
some people just cant forget that the americans started this shit. they rightly see the invasion as the focal point
some hypocrites conviniently forget the invasion and want to judge these insurgents solely on their actions, which u cant, because u need to recognize what precipitated these actions.
as for the insurgents....they constitute such a wide variety of individuals and causes, it is useless to lump them together
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i was not fogetting the invasion, but who inspired the invasion?.. bush did, and what was my point, my words just got all jumbled up. i mean a buch of soldiers didny just up and say, hey i wanna go kill people. they were ordered to, by who you ask, well let me tell ya, bush and congress were the ones who approved the war and started the whole war. i dont know who has seen when micheal moore went with a military recruiter to get congress to put their sons or daughters in the military, because, now im not sure, but i know it was under 5, but i think it was two people in the house of reps, and congress all together who had a child in the military. i just think that the government would be more cautious if they knew it would be their child over there getting killed so bush can impress his daddy., but that wasnt what i was getting at. i have lots of friends and family in iraq, and none of them want to go at all, they dont wanna go fight a cause they dont believe in, but they do it for the safety of their families, because yes, soldiers too have little children, so why would they willingly shoot a child.... they wouldnt. i see the war as bush using the soldiers as marionnettes to do his dirty work. why dont we get bush on the front lines, oh wait... then who is the mastermind (haha yeah right) that will run america.... lets enlist a pre-schooler, they seem to know about the same amount of knowledge.
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LMAO!!!!!!!!
Damn... You are so brainwashed man, you have totally lost your mind!!!!!! You think they do it for money?!!!!! HAHAHAA!!!! Unbelievable!! Yeah, the insurgents are really living it up hiding out in swamps, farms and deserts having bombs dropped on their heads...... they are on ballin status, making it big in the prisons of Abu Graib and Gauntanamo Bay!.... this is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said.
Iraq has a smash-hit television show: "Terrorism in the Hands of Justice." The hour-long episodes without commercials are shown six nights per week on a government-owned, US-sponsored station.
I watched an episode with nine Iraqi translators working for the US Army. The translators say they "love the show," "watch it every night," and that Iraqis "downtown" chatter every morning about the latest episodes.
The format is simple: Captured insurgents start by admitting to crimes, such as killing Americans or Iraqi civilians. The insurgents also admit that they have not committed the attacks because of religion or national defense, but because their families are threatened, or that they are paid for the attacks, or both.
Some admit to taking the money from attacks, then to getting drunk or hiring prostitutes. The suspects on the episode I watched had not yet been sentenced. This situation can vault the mind's eye to disturbing vistas about the state of "civil rights" here. Yet Iraq is at war with itself, and justice in this area of the world is as far behind, by comparison, as are their non-existent space programs. For any country not at war, the idea of forcing suspects onto television—before being sentenced—is far beyond the boundary of mere "wrong." But I walked among the smoking debris of yet another car bomb a couple days ago. Civil rights require that most people respect the civilization enough to stop those who do not. Some folks in Europe and America are saying that the show is a travesty of civil rights. They are right. Better ideas are welcome.
If the television program is a Psyop ploy, it seems to be working. The episodes have so angered many Iraqis that tips to authorities are radically increasing. In a raid some days ago, based on information from such a tip, Iraqi and US forces killed about 85 insurgents. I accompanied a reconnaissance yesterday looking for more insurgents, and the US captain leading the patrol told me that one of the suspects on the television show had come from a village we were in. The captain said that the suspect had admitted to beheading 23 captives.
Many Iraqis apparently have felt that insurgents were attacking the government based on religious duties. The "invisible" insurgents can seem omniscient and increasingly omnipotent. When the people see that many insurgents are merely killers for hire—street thugs who talk with street dialects—the citizens call authorities. Psyop, or just smart, the program is working.
The peace can be won here, but the steep road ahead is only for the strong.
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/03/talk-of-iraq.html
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26402-2005Apr4.html
Actors in the Insurgency Are Reluctant TV Stars
Terror Suspects Grilled, Mocked on Hit Iraqi Show
BAGHDAD -- Iraq's hottest new television program is a reality show. But the players are not there by choice. And they don't win big bucks, a new spouse or a dream job.
Instead, all the characters on "Terrorism in the Hands of Justice" are captured suspected insurgents. And for more than a month, they have been riveting viewers with tales of how they killed, kidnapped, raped or beheaded other Iraqis, usually for a few hundred dollars per victim.
Seated before an Iraqi flag, the dejected and cowed prisoners answer questions from an off-camera inquisitor who mocks their behavior. Some sport bruised faces and black eyes. Far from appearing to be confident heroes battling U.S. occupation, they come across as gangsters.
"I watch the show every night, and I wait for it patiently, because it is very revealing," said Abdul Kareem Abdulla, 42, a Baghdad shop owner. "For the first time, we saw those who claim to be jihadists as simple $50 murderers who would do everything in the name of Islam. Our religion is too lofty, noble and humane to have such thugs and killers. I wish they would hang them now, and in the same place where they did their crimes. They should never be given any mercy."
Broadcast on al-Iraqiya, the state-run network set up by the U.S. occupation authority in 2003, "Terrorism in the Hands of Justice" has become one of most effective arrows in the government's counterinsurgency propaganda quiver.
"It has shown the Iraqi people the reality of those insurgents, [that] they are criminals, killers, murderers, thieves," Interior Minister Falah Naqib said last week.
Sabah Kadhim, an Interior Ministry spokesman, added, "The last few weeks have been incredible in terms of tips coming in from the public."
Officials launched the program, Kadhim said, after realizing that Iraqis did not believe that insurgents were being arrested. "Talking to people in the street, they say, 'Is it really true? . . . Why don't you show it?' " he recalled. "The demand for this came from the people."
The bruised faces and the death of at least one prisoner after his appearance on the show have raised questions about the men's treatment in custody. Kadhim denied the prisoners were being abused. "There is absolutely no motive for us to torture them," he said.
In recent reports, the State Department and Human Rights Watch have criticized the use of torture by Iraqi police.
"In light of our recent findings about the prevalence of torture in Iraqi prisons," said Joe Stork, a Washington-based spokesman for Human Rights Watch, "we have serious concerns that these confessions were not also coerced and that the Iraqi authorities failed to provide essential due process protections."
"Televised confessions are almost always suspect," Stork added. "Recent examples in Iran and Saudi Arabia clearly involved a high level of coercion and degrading treatment."
Such concerns have not dimmed the program's popularity.
"We had not planned for the tapes, but suddenly we had what you might call a scoop," said al-Iraqiya's Baghdad station director, Ahmed Yasseri. As a result, he said, "we have overtaken the other stations. These tapes have captured the attention of Iraqis."
The program usually opens with a graphic shot of a bloodied bombing victim lying in the street, followed by one of two smiling young boys holding a handwritten sign that reads, "No to Terrorism."
As each insurgent is questioned, others sit behind him, hands folded in laps, as if patiently waiting their turns in a barbershop. Sometimes, the head of a cougar or lion -- mascots of counterinsurgency police commandos -- are superimposed on the Iraqi flag in the background.
Many of the suspects are former policemen who claim they were coerced into joining the insurgency by threats against their families. Though many claim to have attacked U.S. forces, the interviews focus on their atrocities against Iraqis and payments they allegedly received from Syrian and Saudi paymasters.
In one recent episode, Ramzi Hashim Obeidi, a painter from Mosul who claimed to be a member of the Islamic radical group Ansar al-Islam, described his purported role in the 2003 car bomb assassination of a senior Shiite Muslim cleric, Ayatollah Mohammed Bakir Hakim, in Najaf.
Obeidi said he was part of a six-man team that was to "intercept U.S. forces if they came." Others drove the explosives-laden vehicle the approximately 90 miles from Baghdad to the site of the attack. "It was very easy," he said "It was an ambulance."
Among the conspirators who planned the operation, Obeidi said, was Iraq's most-wanted Islamic extremist, Abu Musab Zarqawi.
"You did not target just Hakim," the police interrogator shouted at Obeidi. "You killed 110 people, some of them women and children. . . . Do you call this jihad? What kind of jihad is this? To kill police, to behead police?"
Obeidi, who made no attempt to defend his actions, meekly replied, "Up to now, I don't know what jihad is."
On another segment, Qahtan Adnan Khalid, a prisoner who said he had been a policeman in the town of Samarra, had two black eyes and appeared to have difficulty breathing, occasionally wincing in pain.
Responding to each question with a deferential "Sir," Khalid recounted how he had shot two kidnapped policeman in the head and was paid $200 for each killing.
"I advise the young to stay away from these paths," he said at one point.
A few days after Khalid's appearance, his body was delivered to his father's home in Samarra, his family has said. Human Rights Minister Bakhtyar Amin said his office was investigating the death.
At times, the insurgents appear to be parroting packaged answers, and critics of the program say the prisoners' stories fit well with the government's portrait of the insurgency: that it is in large part a bunch of greedy criminals run amok, that foreigners play a big role and that funding is coming from neighboring Syria and Saudi Arabia.
Less emphasized on the program is that the predominantly Sunni Arab insurgency is also driven by fears of Shiite political domination and resentment of the U.S. occupation. As a result, "Terrorism in the Hands of Justice" provokes mixed feelings among some Sunni Arabs.
"My criticism of the program is that it is sometimes simplistic, repetitive and gives the impression that those [men] are being coached to say what they are saying, although I believe they have committed these crimes," said Abdul Kareem Janaby, 46, a Trade Ministry employee. "Those persons are nothing but dirty, lowly gangs who are being used to defame the true character of the Sunnis."
Kadhim said that the captured insurgents eventually would be brought to trial and that what they said on television would be ignored in court because the program was "not a court of law."
The prisoners can only hope they get a judge who shares the views of Fuad Awdeh, 27, a Shiite laborer in Baghdad who said he found the program "captivating."
"I feel sorry and pity for those guys," he said. "They may have done it for money . . . and probably, being unemployed, were easily drawn into this."
Still, Awdeh said, he finds the program credible "because in one episode someone spoke of committing a crime in the Wahda district, and it happens I knew the victim's family, and it was true."
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come now woodrow, surely these incidents dont speak for the entire insurgent population. u obviously know the insurgents are too diverse in cause and ideology to lump em together...?
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So much U.S. propaganda in one thread. :D
Btw, you do know that close to none of the "insurgents" on that TV show get a fair trial right ?
It probably works great as entertainment and as a propaganda machine, but the accused on that show really have no option, guilty or not.
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
Exactly they are just trying to make the most of a bullshit situation! Bush is a fuckwit, but these 'insugents' will rot in hell alongside him. They target indiscriminately in the hope that the rising death toll will reflect badly on the US.GRRAH!
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
lol I wanna see that happen to America ;D
it's not gonna happen in our lifetime... you might as well move to israel or something if you want to see crazy stuff happen
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yeah if you consider making money legally so that you can live , feed your family and buy things..... to make progress past a war that has decimated your country and try to do something better for your community, working for america....i guess they deserve to die
Did you forget the part about Iraqi police officers running up in people's cribs and blowing their heads off? Or the part about Iraqi politicians always blaming "insurgents" for any problems the country is having, nevermind the fact that 140,000 foriegn troops have just came and murdered 100,000 Iraqi's in an effort to steal their natural resources and expand their global reach? Did you forget that part of it?
it's great..
on one side you have people murdering, killing and maiming for money.
on the other you have people murdering, killing and maiming for allah.
am i supposed to see a difference between the two?
what ever happened to people that believed in a religion that stood as a beacon of light? your God is dying and it's your own people that are killing him. why should a muslim man in your religion try and live noble and humble when they can have a slave mentality...blame their short coming on the white western male and kill everyone in sight for gain? Maybe you should spend one hour less reading the Koran, and use that hour to read up on Friedrich Nietzsche.... get a little perspective in your shallow view
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LMAO!!!!!!!!
Damn... You are so brainwashed man, you have totally lost your mind!!!!!! You think they do it for money?!!!!! HAHAHAA!!!! Unbelievable!! Yeah, the insurgents are really living it up hiding out in swamps, farms and deserts having bombs dropped on their heads...... they are on ballin status, making it big in the prisons of Abu Graib and Gauntanamo Bay!.... this is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said.
Iraq has a smash-hit television show: "Terrorism in the Hands of Justice." The hour-long episodes without commercials are shown six nights per week on a government-owned, US-sponsored station.
I watched an episode with nine Iraqi translators working for the US Army. The translators say they "love the show," "watch it every night," and that Iraqis "downtown" chatter every morning about the latest episodes.
The format is simple: Captured insurgents start by admitting to crimes, such as killing Americans or Iraqi civilians. The insurgents also admit that they have not committed the attacks because of religion or national defense, but because their families are threatened, or that they are paid for the attacks, or both.
Some admit to taking the money from attacks, then to getting drunk or hiring prostitutes. The suspects on the episode I watched had not yet been sentenced. This situation can vault the mind's eye to disturbing vistas about the state of "civil rights" here. Yet Iraq is at war with itself, and justice in this area of the world is as far behind, by comparison, as are their non-existent space programs. For any country not at war, the idea of forcing suspects onto television—before being sentenced—is far beyond the boundary of mere "wrong." But I walked among the smoking debris of yet another car bomb a couple days ago. Civil rights require that most people respect the civilization enough to stop those who do not. Some folks in Europe and America are saying that the show is a travesty of civil rights. They are right. Better ideas are welcome.
If the television program is a Psyop ploy, it seems to be working. The episodes have so angered many Iraqis that tips to authorities are radically increasing. In a raid some days ago, based on information from such a tip, Iraqi and US forces killed about 85 insurgents. I accompanied a reconnaissance yesterday looking for more insurgents, and the US captain leading the patrol told me that one of the suspects on the television show had come from a village we were in. The captain said that the suspect had admitted to beheading 23 captives.
Many Iraqis apparently have felt that insurgents were attacking the government based on religious duties. The "invisible" insurgents can seem omniscient and increasingly omnipotent. When the people see that many insurgents are merely killers for hire—street thugs who talk with street dialects—the citizens call authorities. Psyop, or just smart, the program is working.
The peace can be won here, but the steep road ahead is only for the strong.
http://michaelyon.blogspot.com/2005/03/talk-of-iraq.html
i'm not denying that quote in any way, but you have to remember the U.S is trying to win this war mentally as much as physically, they can easily create these episodes etc. as they could fake almost anything... all i'm saying is thats not such a reliable source. i find it hard to believe that these insurgents are willing to die in battle, then they just snitch.
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"For the first time, we saw those who claim to be jihadists as simple $50 murderers who would do everything in the name of Islam. Our religion is too lofty,noble and humane to have such thugs and killers . I wish they would hang them now, and in the same place where they did their crimes. They should never be given any mercy ."
Our religion is too lofty,noble and humane to have such thugs and killers . They should never be given any mercy
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Hey douche bag (infinite)
Big suprise: You look like a moron.
LMAO!!!!!!!!
Damn... You are so brainwashed man, you have totally lost your mind!!!!!! You think they do it for money?!!!!! HAHAHAA!!!! Unbelievable!! Yeah, the insurgents are really living it up hiding out in swamps, farms and deserts having bombs dropped on their heads...... they are on ballin status, making it big in the prisons of Abu Graib and Gauntanamo Bay!.... this is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever said.
I'm quoting what you said because you have a history of deleting stupid shit you say and I want the record to show what a fucking moron you are.
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I'm quoting what you said because you have a history of deleting
I didn't delete that post, but I did edit out the laughing and the sarcasm.