West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: J Bananas on July 18, 2005, 05:47:08 PM
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How do you guys feel about that whole situation? On one hand, the babies father had a gun and could have done lots more damage, on the other, the fuckin pigs shot a baby. I dont blame the police, but theres hella people outraged by it. do you think they had the right to open fire on the guy?
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yo man i didnt hear this, can u post an article
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Yes they did, dude shot a swat officer, they had to defend themselves, i bet you EVERY ONE OF THOSE COPS feels bad for killing that baby, but not that dude, that dude was scumb, how could he put his baby out there like that??? and its a fuckin shame that people are standing up for the dude just because the police killed him, he is no fuckin hero, he locked himself in a place and had his baby hostage, i know people hate authority, but are you gonna actually think of this guy as a saint? come on now
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How do you guys feel about that whole situation? On one hand, the babies father had a gun and could have done lots more damage, on the other, the fuckin pigs shot a baby. I dont blame the police, but theres hella people outraged by it. do you think they had the right to open fire on the guy?
Shut the fuck up idiot...I wish they shot you instead ;D
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/13/toddler.shooting/index.html
There's the article.
Fake ass overseer catchin feelings cuz I called em fuckin pigs. must be a son of a pig or sumthin. :tosser:
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Fake ass overseer catchin feelings cuz I called em fuckin pigs. must be a son of a pig or sumthin. :tosser:
Nah I think you're a retard that knows half the story. (I was j/k in the first post, check the smilie)
My dad is a dentist biatch and I can careless for the cops, unless I'm calling 9-11 ;D
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ok well i feel bad and all, but he shot at them couldda killed one of em, so they had to shoot. i dont like cops, but i feel that they had just cause to open fire
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Why are the cops getting heat? Get pissed at the dad for holding a baby in one and and opening fire with the other. What kind of pussy shit is that? What kind of man would even risk putting his child in danger like that? The cops were put in a catch 22, either decision would of been tragic: shoot the man and risk killing the baby or let them man shoot them and some of the cops die.
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I'm trying to figure out why the cops are getting so much shit as well. I was hoping someone would have a good argument against them
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I'm trying to figure out why the cops are getting so much shit as well. I was hoping someone would have a good argument against them
there are just some stupid people who just hate authority who are hating on the police. The Mother of the Baby was out the next day STANDING UP for THE FUCKIN GUY, Saying he was a good guy and the police did not have to kill him, NEVER REFERENCING THAT HE PUT HER DAUGHTER IN DANGER!, that lady needs to get smacked
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I'm trying to figure out why the cops are getting so much shit as well. I was hoping someone would have a good argument against them
there are just some stupid people who just hate authority who are hating on the police. The Mother of the Baby was out the next day STANDING UP for THE FUCKIN GUY, Saying he was a good guy and the police did not have to kill him, NEVER REFERENCING THAT HE PUT HER DAUGHTER IN DANGER!, that lady needs to get smacked
Well she's emotionally unstable so I don't blame her for not thinking logically. You're right though, there are just people in this world who hate all authority and look for reasons to hate on the cops. Many of them for no reason.
When shit hits the fan though, guess who they call up first thing?
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sympathies out to the SWAT team, and the mother.
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I feel bad for the family of the man and the child, but I'm not mad at the police for opening fire on him. Mabye this could have been avoided if the fuckin 5-0 could learn how to aim. They shot at him nearly 90 fuckin times. Maybe if they didn't spray, the child could have been saved.
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I feel bad for the family of the man and the child, but I'm not mad at the police for opening fire on him. Mabye this could have been avoided if the fuckin 5-0 could learn how to aim. They shot at him nearly 90 fuckin times. Maybe if they didn't spray, the child could have been saved.
Your Ridiculous, what other choice did they have? wait and "AIM" while he shot @ them, or just shoot at him and take him down?? Its the stupid guys fault, he aint no hero
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Did I say he was a fucking hero? I just said the death of the child could have been avoided.
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they had a reason to shoot him but it's fucked up that a baby was shot and killed. unfortunate.
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Was the alley he was in closed off with no above view? If it wasn't couldn't they have sniped him out? I don't know exactly where he was or how it went down so I'm not judging but usually you can get a sniper in position. According to the article they had tried talking him out of it in between shootings so it's not like it was a spur of the moment thing. Maybe there was no way to get a sniper in position, I would just like to know why that is. The CNN report leaves a lot of holes.
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
You kidding right? The guy was firing at the cops. Are they suppose to stand there and let him kill them? It's kinda hard to be trigger happy when you're being fired upon first. Oh, I know, the cops shoulda backed off so he could have his guns blazing out in the open and jepordize more lives.
C'mon...
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
You kidding right? The guy was firing at the cops. Are they suppose to stand there and let him kill them? It's kinda hard to be trigger happy when you're being fired upon first. Oh, I know, the cops shoulda backed off so he could have his guns blazing out in the open and jepordize more lives.
C'mon...
But they said he was in a back alley behind his building. If he was in the middle of the street shooting away then I understand. Was he firing way endlessly or was he in a back alley shooting at oncoming cops? I'm not implying anything, I'm just asking.
I know a few months back a guy was in the middle of the street here and used a hostage for cover while he was aiming at the cops. They waited until a sniper got a good shot and he was taken out. Now if he were shooting way then maybe they wouldn't have waited.
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
You kidding right? The guy was firing at the cops. Are they suppose to stand there and let him kill them? It's kinda hard to be trigger happy when you're being fired upon first. Oh, I know, the cops shoulda backed off so he could have his guns blazing out in the open and jepordize more lives.
C'mon...
But they said he was in a back alley behind his building. If he was in the middle of the street shooting away then I understand. Was he firing way endlessly or was he in a back alley shooting at oncoming cops? I'm not implying anything, I'm just asking.
I know a few months back a guy was in the middle of the street here and used a hostage for cover while he was aiming at the cops. They waited until a sniper got a good shot and he was taken out. Now if he were shooting way then maybe they wouldn't have waited.
I know what ya mean. I'm not up on police protocol, and there probably were alternatives. It was a tough situation. It just makes me mad when people blame cops for the outcome and they didn't even create the situation, they just dealt with it the best they could. RIP to the little girl and my heart goes out to her family.
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
You kidding right? The guy was firing at the cops. Are they suppose to stand there and let him kill them? It's kinda hard to be trigger happy when you're being fired upon first. Oh, I know, the cops shoulda backed off so he could have his guns blazing out in the open and jepordize more lives.
C'mon...
But they said he was in a back alley behind his building. If he was in the middle of the street shooting away then I understand. Was he firing way endlessly or was he in a back alley shooting at oncoming cops? I'm not implying anything, I'm just asking.
I know a few months back a guy was in the middle of the street here and used a hostage for cover while he was aiming at the cops. They waited until a sniper got a good shot and he was taken out. Now if he were shooting way then maybe they wouldn't have waited.
I know what ya mean. I'm not up on police protocol, and there probably were alternatives. It was a tough situation. It just makes me mad when people blame cops for the outcome and they didn't even create the situation, they just dealt with it the best they could. RIP to the little girl and my heart goes out to her family.
I'm not blaming the cops. I understand completely. But I also wouldn't be surprised if a few cops got overanxious and maybe fired prematurely and instead of saying we handled it wrong, something you'll never here cops, fireman, paramedics, or politicians say, you get a we had no choice cover up. I still blame that coke head 100% and his daughter's death is his fault completely. You can only expect so much from cops risking their lives to stop a lunatic. That dooesn't mean I am certain there was no other way.
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
You kidding right? The guy was firing at the cops. Are they suppose to stand there and let him kill them? It's kinda hard to be trigger happy when you're being fired upon first. Oh, I know, the cops shoulda backed off so he could have his guns blazing out in the open and jepordize more lives.
C'mon...
But they said he was in a back alley behind his building. If he was in the middle of the street shooting away then I understand. Was he firing way endlessly or was he in a back alley shooting at oncoming cops? I'm not implying anything, I'm just asking.
I know a few months back a guy was in the middle of the street here and used a hostage for cover while he was aiming at the cops. They waited until a sniper got a good shot and he was taken out. Now if he were shooting way then maybe they wouldn't have waited.
I know what ya mean. I'm not up on police protocol, and there probably were alternatives. It was a tough situation. It just makes me mad when people blame cops for the outcome and they didn't even create the situation, they just dealt with it the best they could. RIP to the little girl and my heart goes out to her family.
I'm not blaming the cops. I understand completely. But I also wouldn't be surprised if a few cops got overanxious and maybe fired prematurely and instead of saying we handled it wrong, something you'll never here cops, fireman, paramedics, or politicians say, you get a we had no choice cover up. I still blame that coke head 100% and his daughter's death is his fault completely. You can only expect so much from cops risking their lives to stop a lunatic. That dooesn't mean I am certain there was no other way.
Agreed
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That's what I'm saying. I don't blame the police for shootin that cat, he deserved it. I just think the killing of the child could have been avoided. Them niggas was just trigger happy.
You kidding right? The guy was firing at the cops. Are they suppose to stand there and let him kill them? It's kinda hard to be trigger happy when you're being fired upon first. Oh, I know, the cops shoulda backed off so he could have his guns blazing out in the open and jepordize more lives.
C'mon...
NO!!!! I WOULD HAVE SHOT AT HIM TOO. JUST NOT 90 FUCKING TIMES.
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article isnt the clearest but what can the cops do? i mean waiting for a sniper and trying to calm the man down would be the best thing to do until the sniper gets in position to blow his head off. but maybe it happened in a 5 minute period? its a shame but you cant really blame the cops if the guy unloaded 40 rounds at them.
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i agree with sik that is some pussy shit holding your daughter as a shield. she didnt deserve to die but him, fuck him!
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all these ppl are on strike here in LA they not lettin ppl pass they holdin up signs
Cops are starting to get pissed off cuzsome signs say some scanless shit
yall know what all this means.....................
Im going Looting soon 8)
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did they shot the guy aswell ? what a dork ass bitch for puttin his baby in danger.
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sure they had to open fire. If shots being fired at them. And the baby would've prolly grown up as a criminal anyway
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^^^
If you're not kidding you're an asshole
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check out what Steve Lopes fromt he times wrote...
Shootout Raises Too Many Questions
When SWAT officers entered the tiny office after a 2 1/2 -hour standoff in Watts 10 days ago, the 19-month-old girl they were trying to save was in her father's arms.
Moments later, the father and the girl were dead, both killed by police bullets.
I learned this from LAPD Chief William J. Bratton on Tuesday evening after visiting the site of the controversial shooting at 104th Street and Avalon Boulevard and calling the chief with questions.
I'd had some questions before visiting the scene. Afterward, I had more.
The Raul's Auto Sales building is roughly the size of a two-car garage, with an interior office the size of a toolshed. Standing inside, I was surrounded by dozens of bullet holes. It wasn't hard to imagine the intensity of the firefight that claimed the lives of the toddler and her father and left a police officer wounded.
On one wall alone, I counted 26 bullet holes. Tiny shafts of sunlight sliced through more than a dozen bullet holes in the exterior walls.
Half a block away, I had met the toddler's mother, Lorena Lopez, who came out on her front step holding a blue pajama top to her face. She told me her daughter, Suzie Marie, was wearing it the morning she was killed. Lopez said she could still smell her daughter.
I'd been reserving judgment on the shooting, which has sparked community cries for justice, because what happened on that day wasn't entirely clear. But 10 days later, it wasn't much clearer. Although police had said a lot about the incident, they hadn't said much about the most critical moments of the shootout.
It seemed obvious from the beginning that the toddler's father, Jose Raul Peña, was chiefly and unconscionably responsible for the death of his daughter. Bratton was on the money when he attacked those who defended Peña as a good man unfairly targeted by overzealous police.
"This is not a good father," Bratton snapped. "He is no hero."
But that doesn't answer everything.
Police say the 35-year-old undocumented immigrant used his toddler as a human shield while shooting at officers with a stolen gun, and that he had threatened several family members, two of whom called police for help.
In the Los Angeles Police Department's version of events, Peña fired at officers when they arrived on the scene. Pena's teenage stepdaughter, who was there for a time, later told police that Peña was flying high on cocaine and alcohol. A hostage negotiator tried to talk him into surrendering, but he allegedly said he wasn't going to jail.
Clearly, he wanted a confrontation. And he got one.
But why, exactly, did the SWAT team rush in when it did, rather than wait Peña out?
In defense of the police, they had two considerations:
What might happen to the child if they did go in.
And what might happen to her if they didn't.
Police say a SWAT team member claimed to have a clear shot at Peña from the turret of an armored vehicle. The bullet fired by the officer was believed to have wounded Peña, and five officers rushed in to rescue the toddler, assuming the father was disabled.
But Peña was still moving and shooting. He apparently retreated into the small interior office and fired through the wall at pursuing officers who braved a hail of gunfire.
SWAT team member Daniel Sanchez caught a bullet in the shoulder and went down.
A flash-bang device was tossed into the office, fogging the room with dust and smoke.
When the shooting stopped, Peña was dead.
So, too, was Suzie Marie.
The girl, with brown hair and brown eyes, had a massive bullet wound to her head and two more bullet wounds on her leg.
We could debate for months and never agree on the wisdom of the police decision to go in rather than waiting it out, and on the "clear shot" fired by the SWAT team officer.
For me, the bigger issue is what happened once police got inside. With Peña blasting away, the situation was no doubt chaotic, fast-moving and terrifying, and it goes without saying that every officer who dashed into the building was putting his life on the line to save the child.
But where was the little girl at that point?
If she was still alive, could police see her as they traded gunfire with Peña?
If so, did they assume they could still shoot him without shooting her?
Was their vision clouded by the flash-bang device?
Did Officer Sanchez fall after being hit and accidentally fire his weapon when he went down?
Since police haven't explained what happened in any detail, it's fair to wonder if, once Sanchez went down, officers might have been less restrained.
I'm not a forensic specialist, but a close look at the office wall reveals what appear to be both entry and exit holes, meaning that shots were fired out of the office (ostensibly by Peña), and into the office (ostensibly by police).
If that's the case, is it possible the girl was killed by a bullet fired blindly through a wall? And if so, why were they firing into a room when they couldn't see what was on the other side?
Chief Bratton told me he doesn't have all the answers yet, but those questions are the focus of the investigation.
He did say that Peña fired more than 40 shots, police fired more than 100, and that the toddler was in Peña's arms when he was shot and killed.
"We know that because one of the officers removed her from his arms," Bratton said.
Was she shot during the exchange in the office, then?
Bratton said he didn't know. It was possible, he said, that she was killed earlier and Peña was still holding her in his arms.
The coroner's report suggests Suzie Marie was killed by a .223-caliber rifle shot, and, as Bratton pointed out, the SWAT officers who entered the office were armed with .223s.
So it's possible, I said, that the toddler was alive when SWAT officers stormed the office, and one of them shot her.
"That's potentially correct," Bratton said.
But other officers were using .223s, the chief said, so it's possible one of them might have fired the fatal shot earlier in the standoff.
"There's no getting around the fact that she was shot by one of our officers," Bratton said.
If she was shot by one of the five officers who entered the building, Bratton said, "I do not believe they were firing blindly into walls." Those officers didn't shoot, he said, until they were inside the interior office.
If one of them fired the shot that killed the toddler, Bratton said, it may be impossible to determine who fired the fatal shot.
"We don't know and probably never will know … because the bullet was a through-and-through" — meaning it passed through the girl's head — and may be difficult to connect to a specific weapon.
Bratton said it could take several months before all the answers are in.
I'm not sure I understand why. The five SWAT officers know what happened, and the LAPD knows where to find them.
But let me repeat: The man chiefly and unconscionably responsible for Suzie Marie's death is dead.
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Stupid guy
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Yes they did, dude shot a swat officer, they had to defend themselves, i bet you EVERY ONE OF THOSE COPS feels bad for killing that baby, but not that dude, that dude was scumb, how could he put his baby out there like that??? and its a fuckin shame that people are standing up for the dude just because the police killed him, he is no fuckin hero, he locked himself in a place and had his baby hostage, i know people hate authority, but are you gonna actually think of this guy as a saint? come on now
True...
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^^^
If you're not kidding you're an asshole
Im not sayin the baby should've died or that im happy wit it, but wit a dad like that, he would prolly become a criminal too
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^^^
If you're not kidding you're an asshole
Im not sayin the baby should've died or that im happy wit it, but wit a dad like that, he would prolly become a criminal too
She. And with a dad like that was threatening the whole family, he would have been arrested and she would have grown up without a stupid dad
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they should have got a sniper and shot the guy in the head. what kind of unprofessional cops shoot a guy who is holding a baby with regular guns?
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Hey suffice...read the article ive posted its got some good stuff and will help you understand the situation better and raises a few interesting questions
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wow not bad, i was expecting a bunch of retards blaming the cops in this thread....i'm surprised....props for all
i guess this guy needed a CD out, then everyone would be saying fuck the police
i guess Tray Deee shooting at random people is good around here
crazy ass dude using his kid as a BPV and shooting at cops is a no-no around here
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sure the cops had to make a tough decision while their lives were threatened, but dosn't mean they shouldn't be criticised and people should just straight out pat them on the back. I think it's good people remain sceptical of the police, especially in such a tragic incident.
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^^^
If you're not kidding you're an asshole
Im not sayin the baby should've died or that im happy wit it, but wit a dad like that, he would prolly become a criminal too
L.O.G.I.C.
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they should have got a sniper and shot the guy in the head. what kind of unprofessional cops shoot a guy who is holding a baby with regular guns?
EXACTLY. Fuck Tha Police
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Yes they did, dude shot a swat officer, they had to defend themselves, i bet you EVERY ONE OF THOSE COPS feels bad for killing that baby, but not that dude, that dude was scumb, how could he put his baby out there like that??? and its a fuckin shame that people are standing up for the dude just because the police killed him, he is no fuckin hero, he locked himself in a place and had his baby hostage, i know people hate authority, but are you gonna actually think of this guy as a saint? come on now
thats very true.
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sympathies out to the SWAT team, and the mother.
ummm....the baby?
As for the story, i agree....its totally the guys fault with the baby.
Oh....and yeah, fuck the police. They arent to blame for every bad situation....but i do hate tha fuckin police honestly. They are so goddamn corrupt and should understand why people hate them. I mean, obviously there are good cops out there. But the amount of bullshit most cops dish out on people is gonna reflect on the whole department. They are, and should be, under the magnifying glass. They have the authority to do damn near anything and get away with it. And they abuse that power ALOT. So its no wonder why people dont support them...
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sympathies out to the SWAT team, and the mother.
ummm....the baby?
As for the story, i agree....its totally the guys fault with the baby.
Oh....and yeah, fuck the police. They arent to blame for every bad situation....but i do hate tha fuckin police honestly. They are so goddamn corrupt and should understand why people hate them. I mean, obviously there are good cops out there. But the amount of bullshit most cops dish out on people is gonna reflect on the whole department. They are, and should be, under the magnifying glass. They have the authority to do damn near anything and get away with it. And they abuse that power ALOT. So its no wonder why people dont support them...
(http://www.board.rawdawgz.net/deu/images/icons/icon16.gif)
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damn man i tihnk they shoudl ahve got like a sniper to snipe him
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thing people need to understand is that the police's job is to protect and serve. There are certain rules that the police are SUPPOSED to follow. For example, the highway patrol isnt supposed to pursue above 95 miles an hour on a high speed chase....for the safety of other innocent people. In this situation, they werent only supposed to protect themselves....but protect that baby. Do u think that if that baby was one of those SWAT officers baby, the team woulda opened fire so quickly? Yeah right...lol
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thing people need to understand is that the police's job is to protect and serve. There are certain rules that the police are SUPPOSED to follow. For example, the highway patrol isnt supposed to pursue above 95 miles an hour on a high speed chase....for the safety of other innocent people. In this situation, they werent only supposed to protect themselves....but protect that baby. Do u think that if that baby was one of those SWAT officers baby, the team woulda opened fire so quickly? Yeah right...lol
you're right, they do have orders, and if a person takes a hostage and continues to fire on anybody.... a cop, stripper, nun, retarded kid on a bike... then their number 1 priority is to protect other people from getting hurt
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If I shoot you, I'm brainless, but if you shoot me you famous whats a nigga to do?
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fuckin cops