West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: cska-moscow on August 17, 2005, 07:31:47 AM
-
Which do you think is the true book ? Here is my view:
The Bible: A book that was God's word but has been changed by human's throughout the centuries. Has many error's/inaccuracies throughout.
The Qur'an: A book that has never been changed by human's. Contain's many scientific fact's only revealed by modern science. Has no error's/contradiction's in it, in fact Allah challenges people to find error's in the Qur'an.
Therefore I think that the Qur'an is the word of God. With you're view's/opinion's could you add any evidence which back's up you're view/opinion.
-
You are indoctrinated and brainwashed.
-
but the Qu'ran wasnt written by Allah/god even you didnt say it was...we know when it was written and when islam was invented...
how can a man made invention be the truth and word of god?
-
OK, The Qur'an is essentially the word of God. Just because it was written through someone does not mean it is not the word of God. For Example, if you told me to write something for you, it would be you're word but I just wrote it for you.
So essentially, the Qur'an is the word of God but was presented to Muhammad over a period of 23 year's in which it was then compiled into a book.
This in a sense bring's me onto another point. You say the Qur'an is a man made invention, am I right ? But then how can it have many scientific facts that correlate with modern science, when it was written over 1400 year's ago by a supposedly illeterate and un-educated man ?
-
OK, The Qur'an is essentially the word of God. Just because it was written through someone does not mean it is not the word of God. For Example, if you told me to write something for you, it would be you're word but I just wrote it for you.
So essentially, the Qur'an is the word of God but was presented to Muhammad over a period of 23 year's in which it was then compiled into a book.
so if someone came to you with a book they'd written and said it was the word of god you'd believe it?
This in a sense bring's me onto another point. You say the Qur'an is a man made invention, am I right ? But then how can it have many scientific facts that correlate with modern science, when it was written over 1400 year's ago by a supposedly illeterate and un-educated man ?
yes its man made.
the thing about "facts" is.. thats what they are.. no matter where you are in history the facts remain the same as _science_ unlike the bible (as you pointed out it changed) cannot change.. since its a stone cold reproducable provable thing.
-
OK, The Qur'an is essentially the word of God. Just because it was written through someone does not mean it is not the word of God. For Example, if you told me to write something for you, it would be you're word but I just wrote it for you.
So essentially, the Qur'an is the word of God but was presented to Muhammad over a period of 23 year's in which it was then compiled into a book.
so if someone came to you with a book they'd written and said it was the word of god you'd believe it?
This in a sense bring's me onto another point. You say the Qur'an is a man made invention, am I right ? But then how can it have many scientific facts that correlate with modern science, when it was written over 1400 year's ago by a supposedly illeterate and un-educated man ?
yes its man made.
the thing about "facts" is.. thats what they are.. no matter where you are in history the facts remain the same as _science_ unlike the bible (as you pointed out it changed) cannot change.. since its a stone cold reproducable provable thing.
Firstly, I am a bit confused as to what you wrote, that is in no way dis-respecting you. Fact's like you said have been around for all time and I am not doubting that. The thing that I am trying to say is that these "facts" that were in a book written over 1400 hundered year's ago, when there was little or no technological advance's, have been proven right by modern science 1400 year's later.
I mean the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) could have claimed these facts but no one would have believed him until they were proven that these fact's he said were indeed true.
Secondly, if someone came up to me and said they had a book and claimed it was the word of God, I would not believe them on the spot, I would read the book and see for myself, as did the Arabian's. Secondly, the reason that I believe the Qur'an is the word of god is because:
1) Like I said previously, it has scientific fact's only proven right until now, no one could have known these fact's over 1400 year's ago.
2) The Qur'an highlight's many issues for me and gives me a clear instruction in how to deal with them.
-
I don't believe the shit in those books ::) , just believe in god, fuck them books !
-
I don't believe the shit in those books ::) , just believe in god, fuck them books !
You have you're own opinion and I have mine, it is good that you are conscious of a God but really you should not dis-credit you're opinion by calling the information in the book's "shit". After all more than 1 billion people follow the Qur'an, more than 2 billion people follow the Bible and so on. By saying the book's contain "shit", you are in sense, dis-respecting these people's belief's.
-
god... we got another infinite ::)
-
any form of standardized religion which teaches u that it is the true word of God is full of shit. There are several facts about the natural world that contradict information presented in holy books. The idea of using a religion to express spirituality is just another form of slavery and a way to keep people in line. If u wanna believe in a higher creator, which there could have been, OK, but to put your faith in a book written by a human who claims to be the voice of God doesnn't sit right with me. Humans are too untrustable to put that much faith in. It leads to bad things, like starting wars and persecuting other people because they dont believe in your variation of how the world was created.
-
I get what you mean, how can people put fiath in a book written by human's. But like I say, if you read the Qur'an thoroughly you will learn much more about Islam than you do now and you will see it is totally different to what many non-Muslim's percieve it to be.
-
god... we got another infinite ::)
I just assumed it was Infinte.
Anyway, I'll play along.
What unknown sciences did the Qur'an prove?
-
So much for the topic starter being without bias lol
-
Which do you think is the true book ? Here is my view:
The Bible: A book that was God's word but has been changed by human's throughout the centuries. Has many error's/inaccuracies throughout.
The Qur'an: A book that has never been changed by human's. Contain's many scientific fact's only revealed by modern science. Has no error's/contradiction's in it, in fact Allah challenges people to find error's in the Qur'an.
Therefore I think that the Qur'an is the word of God. With you're view's/opinion's could you add any evidence which back's up you're view/opinion.
Just read the bible and love God. :halo:
-
god... we got another infinite ::)
I just assumed it was Infinte.
Anyway, I'll play along.
What unknown sciences did the Qur'an prove?
yeah its not infinite.. but sure smells like him..
and i'll second that question.. what are these scienfitic facts? are you just repeating something you heard blindly? or do you have proof of these 'facts'? your post has a ring of the arrogance of the modern world..
you gotta remember... people aint getting cleverer.. they just have more back knowledge/experience to learn from as time goes on ;)
my saying "facts" existed means that the science although worded differently and not using our "modern terms" and attitude will be valid. theres more than 1 way to skin cat in that theres more than 1 way to prove something scientifically.
one example is that its well known that middle eastern medicine was well advanced in SOME areas compared to western. just like how eastern medicine is in some other areas.
-
Which do you think is the true book ? Here is my view:
The Qur'an: A book that has never been changed by human's. Contain's many scientific fact's only revealed by modern science. Has no error's/contradiction's in it, in fact Allah challenges people to find error's in the Qur'an.
Therefore I think that the Qur'an is the word of God. With you're view's/opinion's could you add any evidence which back's up you're view/opinion.
bullshit,lol
-
Which do you think is the true book ? Here is my view:
The Qur'an: A book that has never been changed by human's. Contain's many scientific fact's only revealed by modern science. Has no error's/contradiction's in it, in fact Allah challenges people to find error's in the Qur'an.
Therefore I think that the Qur'an is the word of God. With you're view's/opinion's could you add any evidence which back's up you're view/opinion.
bullshit,lol
lmao that's the best you could say ;D tiemtemo
-
these books were man made like the computer // how can you claim they were the word of god.could computers also be the word of god?? bill gates could've heard things from god like all the other pple who wrote these books
-
these books were man made like the computer // how can you claim they were the word of god.could computers also be the word of god?? bill gates could've heard things from god like all the other pple who wrote these books
Look homie. I can understand that you don't know much about bible, but I'll tell you this.
There are translatosr that don't translate right, but that doesn't mean the concept isn't right.
The concept that God gave is still the same, but the translation (meaning word by word or wordings) is little different.
Surrender youself to God. :halo:
-
i believe in God but i dont believe in any religions. i used 2 b christian cuz my family is but i read and learned shit that showed me the bible has been fucked with way too much. there r a grip of books or chapters missing n shit. and the church been lyin about a lotta shit hiding shit and changing shit around 4 their gain.
"what the industry did to pac, they did to jesus/ raping his vocals and then destroying the message"
-
these books were man made like the computer // how can you claim they were the word of god.could computers also be the word of god?? bill gates could've heard things from god like all the other pple who wrote these books
Look homie. I can understand that you don't know much about bible, but I'll tell you this.
There are translatosr that don't translate right, but that doesn't mean the concept isn't right.
The concept that God gave is still the same, but the translation (meaning word by word or wordings) is little different.
Surrender youself to God. :halo:
how'd u know dat i dont jack shit bout these things ??
-
Man, youre fuckin up my flex with these kind of threads....
-
I ain`t biased one bit but...regarding the Bible? How has it been changed at all? The only thing that has happened is they put out versions that will make it easier to read for newer generations...maybe some words were changed, but they still mean the same thing
-
I ain`t biased one bit but...regarding the Bible? How has it been changed at all? The only thing that has happened is they put out versions that will make it easier to read for newer generations...maybe some words were changed, but they still mean the same thing
missing books or chapters whatever u wanna call em
-
fuck the bible. besides, even if all that christianity bullshit was true, why is god such an asshole that he cant let us get drunk or be adulterous or do anything else thats in our nature to do? i want one of you churchies to give me a good fuckin reason why he is the one worshipped, what does he do that is so fucking great? please someone give me a legit answer, or does no one really read other peoples posts?
-
fuck the bible. besides, even if all that christianity bullshit was true, why is god such an asshole that he cant let us get drunk or be adulterous or do anything else thats in our nature to do? i want one of you churchies to give me a good fuckin reason why he is the one worshipped, what does he do that is so fucking great? please someone give me a legit answer, or does no one really read other peoples posts?
lmao. u gotta first realize if u believe in god or not. u cant talk about what god does unless u actually believe in him.
-
fuck the bible. besides, even if all that christianity bullshit was true, why is god such an asshole that he cant let us get drunk or be adulterous or do anything else thats in our nature to do? i want one of you churchies to give me a good fuckin reason why he is the one worshipped, what does he do that is so fucking great? please someone give me a legit answer, or does no one really read other peoples posts?
i heard jesus could levitate and heal people well levitating used to be a great thing but nowadays lots of pple know how to do it and im gona learn it pretty soon too !!!!!!!YEEEEEE. Then i need to learn how to heal people so i can be the next jesus :D well thats gona be pretty hard but w.e
-
i heard jesus could levitate and heal people well levitating used to be a great thing but nowadays lots of pple know how to do it and im gona learn it pretty soon too !!!!!!!YEEEEEE. Then i need to learn how to heal people so i can be the next jesus :D well thats gona be pretty hard but w.e
Jesus may have existed, but for all we know, all of the miracles that are talked about in the Bible could be made up so weak minded people believe.
-
god... we got another infinite ::)
I just assumed it was Infinte.
Anyway, I'll play along.
What unknown sciences did the Qur'an prove?
Well firstly, the Qur'an contain's many scientific revelation's, that were presented to man, however they were not proven to be correct until modern time's due to technological advances which showed direct correlation to Qur'anic statement's and modern science.
Here are some:
1) The Qur'an said the world/earth was a spherical shape, human's did not know this until many hundered's of year's later.
2) The Qur'an say's the world, moon and sun has orbit's. Again, this was not known until many hundered's of year's later.
3) The Qur'an talks about the initial stages of an embryo, it say's the embryo look's like a clot intially and then a leach. Dr Keith Moore, head of embryology in Canada, checked this and prove it to be correct.
4) The Qur'an talk's about mountain's having deep underlying root's in the Earth, the mountain's act like stabilizer's to the Earth. Again this was not known until recently.
5) The Qur'an also states that the atmosphere has 7 different layer's. Due to technological advances this has been proven correct.
6) The Qur'an also states that everything is made in pair's. This was proven correct by Physicist, Prof. Paul Dirac, who siad “...every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… …and the uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places.”
7) The Qur'an also states that the Universe is expanding and because of modern Astronomy this has been proven correct.
8) The Qur'an states that the sea/ocean's can be set on fire, this has been proven correct as scientists have recently discovered that all of the present day oceans and some seas (such as the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea) are physically set on fire, while others (such as the Mediterranean, the Black and the Caspian Seas) are not.
9) The Qur'an states that it is best for a person to sleep on the right side, this has been proven correct as the smaller of the lung's does not then put pressure on the heart and this allows for quicker digestion of food. Also if someone slept on the left side, the heart would be under a lot of pressure from the bigger right lung.
These are only some of the science revealed in the Qur'an. Having said this, I would like you to know that the Qur'an is a book of guidance and not merely a science book, therefore it does not have every science in it, but it gives makind guidance on sciences and on life. Many people convert to Islam on other finding's of the Qur'an and not merely on the scientific facts.
The Qur'an also challenged/challenges people to prove it is not the word of God by creating a book that is equal in liguistic term's to the Qur'an.
The Qur'an/Surah 7/Verse 88: " Say: If the whole of mankind and Jinn were together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they back up each other with help and support."
This challenge was not met for many year's.
The Quran made it easier, Surah 11/Verse 13: " or they may say, "He forged it" Say, "Bring ye then ten Suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah! If ye speak the truth"
Still this was not met. Furthermore the Qur'an made it more easier, Surah 2/Verse 23: "And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers besides Allah, if what you say is true."
But over 1400 year's have passed and no one has met this challenge and they never will.
I would like you to please visit this link, where 7 of the world's most leading scientist's in different field's where as ked to study the Qur'an and give finding's to the accuracy of science in the Qur'an.
Link: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Science/scientists.html
-
and what about mistakes?
like thinking the breast or heart (depending upon translation) is where your thoughts come from..
the qu'ran saying there are 7 earths.. where are they?
and the stars are closer than the moon? lol..
Qur'an Contradiction:
Embryonic Development
Take, for example, the Quran's highly controversial statement that human beings are formed from a clot of blood. "Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh" (23:14).
This is hardly a scientific description of embryonic development. It ignores to mention the female egg (the second and equally important half) and the process of fertilization when egg and sperm unite to form one new cell.
It mentions the obvious [the sperm], the visible, that which all mankind knew for a long time that it is necessary to "make" a baby. The Qur'an does NOT mention the invisible, that which we know only through modern medicine. Had God really wanted to reveal something nobody could know at that time, in order to prove the divine origin of his revelation, he would have talked e.g. about the "equal contribution of the female through the ovum to form the new person and how the two come together and form one being".
-
the bible is fucked up. People changed it 2 many times, man lol it's such bullshit... and the church omfg, I even used to be a acolite (dunno how u call that in english correct, those lil boys that help the pastors in the church :P ) and I believed all that shit, but I just realized 80% of it is bullshit, church's just a cult that tries to make money of ppl who believe in god.
-
Firstly, like I said before, the Qur'an is not a science book and therefore it does not reveal all science. Islam teaches us to seek knowledge and learn thing's for ourselves, if Allah/God simply gave us all knowledge and told us everything, then the world would not be like it is today. However, having said this, Dr Keith Moore examined the verses in the Qur'an extensively and I am sure if you have visited the link then you should know his finding's.
Like I said the Qur'an does not contain all science but merely a guidance. Therefore we cannot make conclusion's based on what it may/should say but on what it does say.
It say's in the Qur'an, there will be people whom when you show them evidence for the first time will know it is the truth and accept, but some may require you to show it 10 times and some 1000 times and still they will not accept it, the Qur'an refer's to this people as the blind, the deaf, the dumb and there will be no changing these people.
-
You know what people I hate the most? People that try to convert other people.
-
I am not here to convert anyone, I am simply putting my view across. You can make you're own decision, I am not going to hate or respect you any more whatever you choose to do, but I am just, in a sense, widening you're knowledge on Islam jsut the same as you can tell me more about Christianity and more on why you don't believe in a religion.
-
god... we got another infinite ::)
I just assumed it was Infinte.
Anyway, I'll play along.
What unknown sciences did the Qur'an prove?
Well firstly, the Qur'an contain's many scientific revelation's, that were presented to man, however they were not proven to be correct until modern time's due to technological advances which showed direct correlation to Qur'anic statement's and modern science.
Here are some:
1) The Qur'an said the world/earth was a spherical shape, human's did not know this until many hundered's of year's later.
2) The Qur'an say's the world, moon and sun has orbit's. Again, this was not known until many hundered's of year's later.
3) The Qur'an talks about the initial stages of an embryo, it say's the embryo look's like a clot intially and then a leach. Dr Keith Moore, head of embryology in Canada, checked this and prove it to be correct.
4) The Qur'an talk's about mountain's having deep underlying root's in the Earth, the mountain's act like stabilizer's to the Earth. Again this was not known until recently.
5) The Qur'an also states that the atmosphere has 7 different layer's. Due to technological advances this has been proven correct.
6) The Qur'an also states that everything is made in pair's. This was proven correct by Physicist, Prof. Paul Dirac, who siad “...every particle has its antiparticle of opposite charge… …and the uncertainty relation tells us that pair creation and pair annihilation happen in the vacuum at all times, in all places.”
7) The Qur'an also states that the Universe is expanding and because of modern Astronomy this has been proven correct.
8) The Qur'an states that the sea/ocean's can be set on fire, this has been proven correct as scientists have recently discovered that all of the present day oceans and some seas (such as the Red Sea and the Arabian Sea) are physically set on fire, while others (such as the Mediterranean, the Black and the Caspian Seas) are not.
9) The Qur'an states that it is best for a person to sleep on the right side, this has been proven correct as the smaller of the lung's does not then put pressure on the heart and this allows for quicker digestion of food. Also if someone slept on the left side, the heart would be under a lot of pressure from the bigger right lung.
1) The Earth was known as spherical at least as far back as the Greeks. One Greek mathemitician correctly calculated the circumference of the Earth over 700 years before the Qur'an was written.
2) Again the Greeks had orbiting models. The popular one was everything orbiting around the Earth, but there was heliocentric model as well, but was discard by most.
I'll also bet I could find cultures that new about the other things as well.
-
here you can find more examples:
http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php
-
I even used to be a acolite (dunno how u call that in english correct, those lil boys that help the pastors in the church :P )
damn nigga u musta got ur asshole torn apart
-
from wut i hav been taught, they are both the word of God.
the difference is that the Quran has never been changed because of the way it was written. as for ppl sayin a man wrote it, another thing i learned is this: when the Quran was being revealed, God had sent Gabriel to Muhammad. Gabreil made Muhammad say the verses in the Quran, but not in order. Muhammad's followers wrote down the verses (because Muhammad was illiterate, and couldn't read or write) and after his death, his son-in-law Ali compiled the Quran together.
the Bible is also the word of God (at least he original is) but it has been changed overtime so that it would be easier for people to understand it. now ive also heard that ppl changed it to benefit them, but im not 100% sure. I hope i havent offended any Christian brothers and sisters cause that is not my goal, and if i have my apologies.
but anyways, they are both from God.
-
I even used to be a acolite (dunno how u call that in english correct, those lil boys that help the pastors in the church :P )
damn nigga u musta got ur asshole torn apart
no, i haven't been raped.
-
Firstly, like I said before, the Qur'an is not a science book and therefore it does not reveal all science. Islam teaches us to seek knowledge and learn thing's for ourselves, if Allah/God simply gave us all knowledge and told us everything, then the world would not be like it is today. However, having said this, Dr Keith Moore examined the verses in the Qur'an extensively and I am sure if you have visited the link then you should know his finding's.
Like I said the Qur'an does not contain all science but merely a guidance. Therefore we cannot make conclusion's based on what it may/should say but on what it does say.
It say's in the Qur'an, there will be people whom when you show them evidence for the first time will know it is the truth and accept, but some may require you to show it 10 times and some 1000 times and still they will not accept it, the Qur'an refer's to this people as the blind, the deaf, the dumb and there will be no changing these people.
listen buddy, its cool and all youre reppin the qu'ran, but if youre gonna play the scientific card, then you have to play it all the way, you cant just say it has scientific facts, then flip the script and say only look at the scientific facts that are correct, and ignore the incorrect statements...
other than that, the quaran and the bible pretty much teach the same thing, be a good person... main differences: the bible brings in alot of mythology and peace, the quran brings in science, violence and demeaning women... throw that aside, and you have two books that promote similar values.
-
8)
-
Firstly, like I said before, the Qur'an is not a science book and therefore it does not reveal all science. Islam teaches us to seek knowledge and learn thing's for ourselves, if Allah/God simply gave us all knowledge and told us everything, then the world would not be like it is today. However, having said this, Dr Keith Moore examined the verses in the Qur'an extensively and I am sure if you have visited the link then you should know his finding's.
Like I said the Qur'an does not contain all science but merely a guidance. Therefore we cannot make conclusion's based on what it may/should say but on what it does say.
It say's in the Qur'an, there will be people whom when you show them evidence for the first time will know it is the truth and accept, but some may require you to show it 10 times and some 1000 times and still they will not accept it, the Qur'an refer's to this people as the blind, the deaf, the dumb and there will be no changing these people.
listen buddy, its cool and all youre reppin the qu'ran, but if youre gonna play the scientific card, then you have to play it all the way, you cant just say it has scientific facts, then flip the script and say only look at the scientific facts that are correct, and ignore the incorrect statements...
other than that, the quaran and the bible pretty much teach the same thing, be a good person... main differences: the bible brings in alot of mythology and peace, the quran brings in science, violence and demeaning women... throw that aside, and you have two books that promote similar values.
But I have stated many time's over, there are no scientific error's in the Qur'an, what I was pointing out to the other person was that OK the Qur'an may not go into much detail but the main point of the statement is correct. Thus we cannot make assumption's on what should be said but on what is actually written and then say if that is correct or incorrect.
On you're second point, the Qur'an does not bring violence, many of the verses in the Qur'an that are used today are taken out of context, the verses relate to the war's that the Muslim's fought and said, only battle in war's and kill no women and children and firstly try to promote peace before fighting. It does not state go killing every day.
Demeaning Women ?!??! I admit it seem's odd to a westerner when they see women dressed in Islamic clothes as they are not used to it. The women clearly feel that they are comfortable and feel safe in the particular dress so they wear it, no one forces them to wear such dress.
-
Demeaning Women ?!??! I admit it seem's odd to a westerner when they see women dressed in Islamic clothes as they are not used to it. The women clearly feel that they are comfortable and feel safe in the particular dress so they wear it, no one forces them to wear such dress.
Are you an Arab from the Middle East? Because I know a lot of them and they all feel that they should have control over any woman in their family. Most I know even say that they'd kill their daughter if she had premarital sex. The North American born arabs don't feel this way but the ones raised in the middle east and then moved here do. Please don't be an idiot. To say Islam isn't filled with sexists is like saying the Catholic Church isn't filled with sexists.
-
^you cant compare the sexism in the church to the sexism in islam... sexism in christianity only streches as far as church on sundays, islam the sexism is an ongoing thing every-day...
how is it the women have a choice ? they HAVE to wear a veil, they are comfortable with it, just like a dog can get used to wearing a flea collar, sure its weird at first, but then conditioning allows it to forget ! so why dont they make it optional ? i am sure that over 50% of women would stop wearing it if they werent punished for it in any way...
-
the veil is a pathetic way for islamic men to control women...
-
^you cant compare the sexism in the church to the sexism in islam... sexism in christianity only streches as far as church on sundays, islam the sexism is an ongoing thing every-day...
how is it the women have a choice ? they HAVE to wear a veil, they are comfortable with it, just like a dog can get used to wearing a flea collar, sure its weird at first, but then conditioning allows it to forget ! so why dont they make it optional ? i am sure that over 50% of women would stop wearing it if they werent punished for it in any way...
This is exactly what I mean, you cannot relate the distorted vew's of countries that are predominantly Muslim and say that, that is what the Qur'an and Islam teaches. If you spent the time in analysing and researching the Qur'an and Islam, you come to know that what many of these countries enforce upon their people, is totally against the teaching's of Islam. But the fact remain's that many people in the west only get one view of Islam and that is the totally wrong view.
Like I said, if you research the Qur'an you would come to know that what happen's in these nation's has nothing in relevance to Islam.
-
^you cant compare the sexism in the church to the sexism in islam... sexism in christianity only streches as far as church on sundays, islam the sexism is an ongoing thing every-day...
how is it the women have a choice ? they HAVE to wear a veil, they are comfortable with it, just like a dog can get used to wearing a flea collar, sure its weird at first, but then conditioning allows it to forget ! so why dont they make it optional ? i am sure that over 50% of women would stop wearing it if they werent punished for it in any way...
This is exactly what I mean, you cannot relate the distorted vew's of countries that are predominantly Muslim and say that, that is what the Qur'an and Islam teaches. If you spent the time in analysing and researching the Qur'an and Islam, you come to know that what many of these countries enforce upon their people, is totally against the teaching's of Islam. But the fact remain's that many people in the west only get one view of Islam and that is the totally wrong view.
Like I said, if you research the Qur'an you would come to know that what happen's in these nation's has nothing in relevance to Islam.
You said no one forces them to wear the hijab, but clearly they are forced since they are not allowed to take it off. Whether this is a teaching of Islam isn't my concern. You said they aren't forced. You are wrong.
-
What I mean't to say was, and I apologize, that Islam and the Qur'an do not force a woman to wear Hijab, yes there are statement's which advise a woman to "cover" herself but they do not tell the woman to i.e. "Wear the Hijab or you will die", but like I said the Qur'an is a book of guidance, I believe, and I don't blame the western people or people who do not know much about Islam/Qur'an, that if you really want to question Islam, read the Qur'an/Hadith's and saying's of the Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) and that is the only authentic source for the "true" and "pure" Islam, rather than reading anti-Islamic sites and watching the news in which you get a one sided view of Islam.
-
Simple question to lazarus: Do you think the treatment of women in islamic countries is good and how it is supposed to be?
-
The treatment of women in some countries that are predominantly Muslim, in my opinion, is totally against what I percieve to be the teaching's of Islam and the Qur'an. I think many of the ruler's use Islam as an excuse to what they do, just like people against Islam, they take verses out of context to use for their own means. I once saw a documentary a couple of year's back, which showed treatment of women in Pakistan and when questioned and asked "Are you allowed to do this ?", the people said verses in the Qur'an that did not even corellate to their excuse, that show's that many of these so called "Muslim's" have a weak view of Islam.
But the world is like this and we cannot do much about it, this thing's occur everywhere and we cannot really quell it. I think we should live our own lives the best we can and voice view's against such atoricities and let the judging be done by Allah or whoever you follow.
-
the reason why muslims believe that the QUR'AN is the word is god is simple. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was illiterate, he was chased into a cave by guards and wasnt found because a daddy long leg spider spun a huge web so it fooled the guards. anyhow, he was in there for a long time, and he didnt eat or drink at all (part of the reason why muslims fast during ramadan) but he was illiterate, and while he was in the cave, he learned thru god (god spoke to him divinely i dont know the whole story but....) thru god he was able to read and write arabic, and essentially the QUR'AN was the word of god, because an illiterate man wrote the QUR'AN and prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was illiterate and wrote in arabic the word of god that consists of many diverse topics in an awe inspiring way with ZERO mistakes. to me, ISLAM is the truth because, whom other then GOD can do that....
-
The treatment of women in some countries that are predominantly Muslim, in my opinion, is totally against what I percieve to be the teaching's of Islam and the Qur'an. I think many of the ruler's use Islam as an excuse to what they do, just like people against Islam, they take verses out of context to use for their own means. I once saw a documentary a couple of year's back, which showed treatment of women in Pakistan and when questioned and asked "Are you allowed to do this ?", the people said verses in the Qur'an that did not even corellate to their excuse, that show's that many of these so called "Muslim's" have a weak view of Islam.
But the world is like this and we cannot do much about it, this thing's occur everywhere and we cannot really quell it. I think we should live our own lives the best we can and voice view's against such atoricities and let the judging be done by Allah or whoever you follow.
well its starnge that the qu'ran allows the men to 'discipline' women, and allows men to have 4 wives... i dont think that can be taken out of context.
but lets say it can be taken out of context. it is strange that a book can be so easily mis-interpreted. and its strange that in the western-world where the major religion is christianity, these things do not arise...
in the western world our fundamental beliefs are rooted in christianity, religous or not our values inevitably stem from teachings of the bible. thats what the western world was fighting for since how many years ?
tell me which society you prefer ?
-
Well, firstly, you are allowed to have as many wives as you want but you must provide for each wive equally and treat them equally, if you cannot do this then you should not marry many wives. Like I said it is all about providing for them.
Ok onto the second point, it is true that in the Western World the main religion, although declining, is Christianity. But if you base that on you're way of life then can we say the Bible teaches:
Hardcore Porn
Fornication
Divorce
Adultery
Crime
And so on. Like you said yourself the West has a predominantly Christian way of life so we can assume, just like you are assuming about Islam and the Qur'an, that Christianity and the Bible teach this.
Of course they do not teach such act's but the fact of the matter is that it still goes on as human's tend to do what they like but they still call themselve's Christian. Like I said Islam does not teach the act's that are carried out but many people assume they do because the nation is a so called "Islamic Republic".
What type of life would I like to live ?
Well, I would like to live under the true and proper Islamic law and not the extreme and distorted law of many people, I think society as a whole would benefit, but this is my own opinion. Having said this, I still respect and admire the western way of life due to free speech, democracy etc. But Islamic Law is highly unlikely going to going to be prevelant in Western Society so I just liv emy life as best I can and be judged on the last day.
-
Well, firstly, you are allowed to have as many wives as you want but you must provide for each wive equally and treat them equally, if you cannot do this then you should not marry many wives. Like I said it is all about providing for them.
yeah ive heard this bullshit before... how can you love more than one woman at a time ? a positive and two negatives dont make 0... thats some bullshit right there.
Ok onto the second point, it is true that in the Western World the main religion, although declining, is Christianity. But if you base that on you're way of life then can we say the Bible teaches:
Hardcore Porn
Fornication
Divorce
Adultery
Crime
And so on. Like you said yourself the West has a predominantly Christian way of life so we can assume, just like you are assuming about Islam and the Qur'an, that Christianity and the Bible teach this.
What type of life would I like to live ?
Well, I would like to live under the true and proper Islamic law and not the extreme and distorted law of many people, I think society as a whole would benefit, but this is my own opinion. Having said this, I still respect and admire the western way of life due to free speech, democracy etc. But Islamic Law is highly unlikely going to going to be prevelant in Western Society so I just liv emy life as best I can and be judged on the last day.
so how exactly does your life differ from mine ?
-
Well, firstly, you are allowed to have as many wives as you want but you must provide for each wive equally and treat them equally, if you cannot do this then you should not marry many wives. Like I said it is all about providing for them.
When Islam allows a woman to have as many husbands as she wants so long as she provides for them, I'll stop debating with you.
-
LOL at the religeous peeps on this board trying to convert Hip Hop Heads which is a comunity of peeps that is raised to go against the grain and say "fuck the sytsem".
To each man his own path and he will be judged by his own knowlege of what is truth.