Author Topic: Question: For muslims and christians  (Read 485 times)

Ant

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Question: For muslims and christians
« on: January 09, 2003, 05:57:42 PM »
Which of these ideals do your faith believe in?

God is Omnipotent           All powerful
God is Omniscient           All knowing
God is Omnipresent         Ever present


My question is does islam and christianity believe god is all three or only a combination of two?
 

infinite59

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2003, 06:46:48 PM »
He is all of those things and more.  There are 99 proper names, attributes of Allah.
 

Ant

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2003, 07:04:32 PM »
If he is all powerful, when is his power exercised?

Or rather... are there rules for when God/Allah can step in and "moderate"
« Last Edit: January 09, 2003, 07:05:46 PM by Ant »
 

Trauma-san

Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2003, 08:23:20 PM »
God cannot be completely understood on earth, he is all powerful, all knowing, and ever present, and so much more; God's attributes deal with infinity, and since the human mind's comprehension is finite, we cannot understand his attributes.  
 

Ant

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2003, 09:57:35 PM »
I would agree with that much.  I don't feel as if I can comprehend and infinite being.    

Actually while I don't really believe in the Bible, Qu'ran, Torah I don't discount God's existance.  For me the possibility of an infinite universe that has always been here is equally as amazing as the possibility of a God.

In other words, I think the creation of a Universe almost requires some God like being.  Did the world just come from nothing?  And if time is infinite, then there could be an infinite being.

However back to the topic at hand?  

Since God is agreed by both religions to be all powerful when does each religion believe God exerts his power.  How does God interact with the world in the opinion of both christianity and islam.  Does he even interact? Does he control all? Control nothing? Step in periodically? Have certain rules he follows that dictate when he will step in?
 

Trauma-san

Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2003, 01:14:41 AM »
I don't really know, personally.  I think (I may be wrong) most religious people don't have a full understanding of most of god's ways, and they don't know what his rules are, or when he steps in, or whatever.  To the non-relgious person, it sounds like a copout, but to a religious person, It's part of having faith in god, and not questioning his supreme intellect.

All I do know is that, god is all powerful, and CAN exert his power at any moment in any event of our lives, if he  so chooses.  I believe sometimes he does choose to do that, I believe Miracles occur to this day, probably several times daily in far more ways than we can ever imagine.  


Here's an example of how I see things:

Suppose (And I believe this) when we pass, our eyes will be more open to what was going on on this earth; I think when we die (and my religion teaches it) a certain veil is lifted, because we are freed from the things we worried about on earth (money, food, water, time, etc. all becomes irrelevant, so your mind won't be clouded thinking about them).  I think after we die, we'll see things more clearly, and understand much more... maybe then, when we look back, we'll see god touching our lives CONSTANTLY.  Maybe he steps in all the time.  I certainly think that childbirth is a miracle, that should be impossible, but yet it happens all over the place every day.  It defies every other law in the universe, but yet it happens everywhere.  Maybe we'll look back and find that it was a miracle, and not chance, for instance that Chris Reeves wasn't killed when he bacame paralyzed a few years back, or maybe we'll find that God specifically spared Tom's father's life, when he would have normally died under that truck.  

I think miracles happen all the time, and god steps in and helps us out through life constantly, but we probably don't notice it, and can't notice it while on earth.  


I think people are just born more open to ideas like that.  I swear, and this is kinda gay, but the first time that I knew for SURE that god existed (I always played with the idea as a kid) was one time, I was travelling home from the beach, alone, and this beautiful John Lennon song came on the radio.  I remember thinking, god, why would god let somebody that awesome just get shot in the head like a punk in the middle of a stairwell, and have somebody that important to so many people just die, his last words were "I've been shot".  Somebody that inspirational to me, and millions of others (I learned SO MUCH from the beatles, I know it's rediculous, but it's true about love, treating people right, etc.); why would god let somebody like that just die so humiliated, or just leave so soon, it didn't make any sense... I was thinking, if there's a god, why would he let John Lennon just get his head blown to bits after all the good things he did?  


Then, I had this epiphamy (LOL is that a word?) that maybe, on the flip side, I didn't understand John's purpose, and maybe, since by definition, any god would be much more intelligent then me, maybe I just didn't see the whole picture; maybe John had existed before earth, and maybe he still existed somewhere else, and maybe God just felt like ending his life for some greater cause, or maybe his death was supposed to be a good thing, maybe looks were deceiving.  I ended up settling on the opinion that maybe God missed John and wanted such a lovely person to return home to him, LOL.  Ever since then I haven't once doubted god, because I make sure to view everything two ways.  In other words, a much more interesting question than the ones you've put forth here, to me, would be something like "why do some people believe in god inherently and some don't".  

Peace~
« Last Edit: January 10, 2003, 01:21:00 AM by E.Trauma »
 

infinite59

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2003, 02:23:05 AM »
If he is all powerful, when is his power exercised?

Or rather... are there rules for when God/Allah can step in and "moderate"

First of all.  Is Trauma creating his own theology, or is his knowledge a product of the Latter Day Saints?  I am speaking as a Muslim and from what I have been taught at this point in my Islamic studies.  

Ant, to answer your question.  When is Allah's power exercised?-  At every moment, of every day.  There is nothing that is done without the will of Allah.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2003, 02:23:29 AM by Infinite Ibrahim Abdul Hamid »
 

Trauma-san

Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2003, 02:28:13 AM »
That's my own theology, none of which is in contradiction to latter day saint beliefs.  


I also feel you just opened yourself up for a loophole.  I feel you don't understand as much as you say you do. I can admit, like I did below, when I don't fully understand concepts, but you can't.  You say everything is done at the will of allah, but that gives no meaning to our existance, and offers us no free agency. A perfect god would have no slaves.  
 

infinite59

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2003, 02:32:05 AM »
That's my own theology, none of which is in contradiction to latter day saint beliefs.  


I also feel you just opened yourself up for a loophole.  I feel you don't understand as much as you say you do. I can admit, like I did below, when I don't fully understand concepts, but you can't.  You say everything is done at the will of allah, but that gives no meaning to our existance, and offers us no free agency. A perfect god would have no slaves.  

Actually, I can answer your question.  Trauma, you okay man?  Anyway, we are taught in Islam that from a human standpoint we are givin free will.  Allah has made it that way.  But ultimately everything comes from Allah.

 

Trauma-san

Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2003, 02:35:29 AM »
Maybe I just don't understand it.  
 

Woodrow

Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2003, 02:58:43 AM »
I've got a question since people are on a respectfull religious tip in this post.

There is no scientific fact that a God exists. There is no concrete proof that a superior being is out there. That means, that you have to have Faith that your particular God is real. What makes one belief better or more valid than another belief?
 

Maestro Minded

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2003, 08:12:47 AM »
That's my own theology, none of which is in contradiction to latter day saint beliefs.  


I also feel you just opened yourself up for a loophole.  I feel you don't understand as much as you say you do. I can admit, like I did below, when I don't fully understand concepts, but you can't.  You say everything is done at the will of allah, but that gives no meaning to our existance, and offers us no free agency. A perfect god would have no slaves.  

Actually, I can answer your question.  Trauma, you okay man?  Anyway, we are taught in Islam that from a human standpoint we are givin free will.  Allah has made it that way.  But ultimately everything comes from Allah.



like infinite said

we are saves of Allah
he know everything he have done and will do
but still Allah let us do it by ourself, even though Allah already know what will happen
 

HBKid_Jr

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2003, 08:22:51 AM »
That's my own theology, none of which is in contradiction to latter day saint beliefs.  


I also feel you just opened yourself up for a loophole.  I feel you don't understand as much as you say you do. I can admit, like I did below, when I don't fully understand concepts, but you can't.  You say everything is done at the will of allah, but that gives no meaning to our existance, and offers us no free agency. A perfect god would have no slaves.  

Actually, I can answer your question.  Trauma, you okay man?  Anyway, we are taught in Islam that from a human standpoint we are givin free will.  Allah has made it that way.  But ultimately everything comes from Allah.



like infinite said

we are saves of Allah
he know everything he have done and will do
but still Allah let us do it by ourself, even though Allah already know what will happen
if allah already knows what happens wouldnt that be pre destination than
 

Maestro Minded

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Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2003, 08:36:57 AM »
That's my own theology, none of which is in contradiction to latter day saint beliefs.  


I also feel you just opened yourself up for a loophole.  I feel you don't understand as much as you say you do. I can admit, like I did below, when I don't fully understand concepts, but you can't.  You say everything is done at the will of allah, but that gives no meaning to our existance, and offers us no free agency. A perfect god would have no slaves.  

Actually, I can answer your question.  Trauma, you okay man?  Anyway, we are taught in Islam that from a human standpoint we are givin free will.  Allah has made it that way.  But ultimately everything comes from Allah.



like infinite said

we are saves of Allah
he know everything he have done and will do
but still Allah let us do it by ourself, even though Allah already know what will happen
if allah already knows what happens wouldnt that be pre destination than
yes... but you are the one choosing the path, but Allah know the path you will choose, and he allow you to do that, even though you might choose the wrong path

(im not talking about YOU.. just 'you' in general)
 

Don Seer

Re:Question: For muslims and christians
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2003, 09:02:39 AM »
I've got a question since people are on a respectfull religious tip in this post.

There is no scientific fact that a God exists. There is no concrete proof that a superior being is out there. That means, that you have to have Faith that your particular God is real. What makes one belief better or more valid than another belief?

ego powers it.