Author Topic: democracy in the middle east: Hamas wins Palestinian parliamentary majority  (Read 685 times)

Don Rizzle

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Point is, Israel accepted the Partition Plan, thus accepting the existence of a territorially superior Palestinian State. I've never said it was a unanimous decision, but FACT remains it was made- it was accepted. Your speculations as for Zionists not being fully fond of the Partition Plan, despite their acceptance, can only show you their great vision of the future to come. Practically it didn't have any impact since the Partition Plan was accepted on the part of the Zionists.

You're late homie. Jamal already let me read this piece of propaganda a while back.

READ SOME FACTS NOW:

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The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the "Zionist gangs" very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile. [Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948]

And just so we're clear, you've just tried to refute a FACT with an assumption. Point is, there was some sort of communication between Palestinian Arabs and the Arab States, even if it wasn't broadcasted or cought on tape. Although the Pan-Arabic Brits were known for helping out Arab Propaganda, so it's hard to tell whether this source is even reliable.

Now as for the Arab World being interested in the status-quo. Read it again:
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"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity.... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel." (Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council (Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977)

Meaning: No Palestinian identity=No battle against Israel.
             Are you saying the Arab World is not interested in a threat to Israel's existence or stability?- Take off your pink glasses homie.
             Now how many wealthy Arabs do you see blowing themselves up? Does the Arab World need poverty in the territories then?
             Are the Arab States or Are they not interested in this constant threat to Israel's stability?

the point is they accepted it, but they never intended to stick to it and history has proved that and no sane person can deny that without lying.

the arabs said they would crush the zoinists and give back the land to the palestinians no one has ever disputed that, and let me be clear it was their land and zoinist forced them out of their reserved terrotory, arab armies were coming to their defense.

you've just tried to say there was communication, other than what was broadcasted telling them to stay put, that told them to leave and claimed it as a fact but don't have any source to back it up! who is the one who fell victim to properganda?

Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese are all part of the 'arab nation' if u will, but it doesn't stop them laying claim to their own land in palestine, israel stole it, so its right they fight israel to get it back.

israel has never treated arabs as equal, they have never given them the rights they deserve in their own home....they have imprisoned them, they have tortured them, they have killed them, they have raped them, they've demolished homes and entire villages, cut water supplies, bulldozed farms, restricted their movements, left hundred of thousands of refugees to their own devices with no right to return etc. and u wonder why they aren't happy with israel....open ur fucking eyes!

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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Don if this is not a valid source I don't know what is:

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The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the "Zionist gangs" very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile. [Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948]

Meaning: The problem was created by the Arab States. Had they not coerced Palestinian Arabs to leave, Had their statehood been proclaimed according to the partition plan- the Palestinians would have a state. Removal of Palestinian Arabs from their land is what the Arab States initiated, not Zionists.


NIBS...I aksed you one simple thing. You're trying to prevent innocent people from dieing, you know for a fact the person that is sitting in front of you knowes when and where the next suicide bomber is going to hit...now how would u get that info out of him?

I understand the moral questions it raises that's why I aksed you as for a better way to prevent a terrorist attack. Nevertheless, I don't think a terrorist comes to correct injustices. I think a terrorist serves the needs of particular power seeking political entities.

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"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity.... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes.The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel. " (Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council (Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977)











We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

Don Rizzle

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Don if this is not a valid source I don't know what is:

Quote
The refugees were confident that their absence would not last long, and that they would return within a week or two. Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the "Zionist gangs" very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile. [Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948]

Meaning: The problem was created by the Arab States. Had they not coerced Palestinian Arabs to leave, Had their statehood been proclaimed according to the partition plan- the Palestinians would have a state. Removal of Palestinian Arabs from their land is what the Arab States initiated, not Zionists.
There is nothing in that quote telling them to leave, all it says is arab armies would fight the zoinist aggression on their behalf so they could return from exile, saying arab states told palestinians to leave a lie and you have no proof to back that up, however there is proof to show that zoinists forced arabs from their land

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

nibs

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nibs...I aksed you one simple thing. You're trying to prevent innocent people from dying, you know for a fact the person that is sitting in front of you knows when and where the next suicide bomber is going to hit...now how would u get that info out of him?

israel and the u.s. have already answered that question for us.  

do you admit that democracies don't necessarily respect human rights?  that is the issue.

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Nevertheless, I don't think a terrorist comes to correct injustices. I think a terrorist serves the needs of particular power seeking political entities.

i correlate terrorists with the military.  a terrorist is a soldier for a weaker entity.   i agree with you that soldiers serve the needs of the power that controls them.

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I understand the moral questions it raises that's why I asked you for a better way to prevent a terrorist attack.

if i'm the u.s. and i want to prevent terrorists i would:
a) cease the unilateral support of the state of israel
b) cease supporting corrupt regimes in the middle east (like saudi arabia)
c) cease being a tool of multinational corporations; abandoning policies that exist to support their interests in the middle east, latin & south america, africa and around the globe in general.  

but hey, if the u.s. is going to continue along the path it has charted out for itself, maybe torture is the way to go.  it's been argued in this thread that the u.s. needs false confessions procured via torture to help justify their war on terror.  i can't think of a better way to convince an innocent man to admit to a crime they did not commit than torture...
"a four letter word is going out to every single enemy" - kam
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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A terrorist serves the needs of a very small group of people. An army serves the survival of a nation or of a country. Both are militant structures but there is a distinction: Survival of the Nation- the terrorist doesn't stand for the survival of his nation( in this case a nation was made up to camouflage terrorism under a pseudo-moral ideal) but for the destruction of another. There is nothing in IDF's moral code that calls for murder of civilians. Terrorist ideology strives for the murder of civilians.


Don,

Quote
Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the "Zionist gangs" very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile. [Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948]
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

nibs

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A terrorist serves the needs of a very small group of people. An army serves the survival of a nation or of a country. Both are militant structures but there is a distinction: Survival of the Nation- the terrorist doesn't stand for the survival of his nation( in this case a nation was made up to camouflage terrorism under a pseudo-moral ideal) but for the destruction of another.

i disagree.  a military also stands for a small group of people: it's government; and the survival of it's government (and sometimes self-survival).  it's the government that represents the people.  in the u.s.; the secretary of defense and the president are the only civillians that the military responds to.  not the people.  not the representatives in congress.

look at hamas, now.  if they were terrorists before, now they are a government.  if the terrorist arm of hamas was acting only for the interests of a small group of people, now they act on behalf of the palestinian government.

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There is nothing in IDF's moral code that calls for murder of civilians.

the idf willing follows orders and shoots missiles into civillian living quarters in order to kill "terrorists".  they willingly accept civillian losses in their efforts.

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Terrorist ideology strives for the murder of civilians.

terrorists strive to have an effect that will be felt.  both terrorists and the idf and the u.s. military are more than willing to kill civillians in the course of their actions.

you look at that u.s. strike in pakistan.  18 people killed, reports that 4 were terrorists.  what about those other 14 people?  the same can be said for the rocket strikes into palestinian settlements by the idf.

the military follows orders, they don't question them.  and the military don't answer to the general public, they answer to the government. 
"a four letter word is going out to every single enemy" - kam
 

Don Rizzle

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Don,

Quote
Their leaders had promised them that the Arab Armies would crush the "Zionist gangs" very quickly and that there was no need for panic or fear of a long exile. [Sada al Janub, August 16, 1948]
whats your point? they promised to crush the zoinists we all know that but no ever told them to leave except the zoinist!!

iraq would just get annexed by iran


That would be a great solution.  If Iran and the majority of Iraqi's are pleased with it, then why shouldn't they do it?
 

J @ M @ L

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I'm done sonning I Geezy... and there's no need for me to expose every lie he's been putting forth in this thread... but I do want to remind you guys:


I Geezy... and seemingly every other Zionist: "I don't have to believe something that is factual"

be·lieve
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v. tr.
To accept as true or real


Meaning: "I don't have to accept something factual as true"



Keep that in mind when arguing with I Geezy...
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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The army serves the survival of the nation, a terrorist group doesn't. Hamas is one of the reasons to why Israel is forced to conduct military operations in the Autonomy.
If there had been a Palestinian Leadership that wanted the Palestinian People to have a state they would have it back in 48, according to the partition plan.

Hamas winning the elections is not much of a surprise to me. The PLO was a terrorist group, so is Hamas. The Nazi Party in Germany was also democratically elected, so?
Back then Jews didn't have the means to defend themselves from extremists, now they do.When every option is a terrorist group, your choice is only an illusion. See the thing is Hamas is a very efficient terrorist group, this win only proves their thirst for power had been finally satisfied. Just like the PLO, Hamas wants power and money. I guess the world will have to provide "support money" for yet another terrorist group posing as the leadership.

Don, reading comprehension man.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2006, 01:44:47 PM by I TO DA GEEZY »
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

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I know Hamas gives away a lot of money for charity, but it's still a terrorist organization. This goes to show how fucked up the Palestinian minds are :-X They don't want peace, they want war.


Wow thats a pretty hard statement coming from someone who has the word 'gangsta' in their name. so i guess it would be perfectly ok for me to assume that u are a violent little shit as well since you obviously advocate gangsters right? Maybe I should add in that all US citizens are violent as well as they voted for a president that has gone to 2 wars under his presidency?
 

King Tech Quadafi

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