Author Topic: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...  (Read 1041 times)

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Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« on: February 21, 2006, 01:23:02 AM »
http://www.finalcall.com/pressconference/


Fast forward to 43 minutes if you want, around the time where he starts talking about the project for a new American century. 



(since everyone else at this forum seems to want to make this an issue and a point of contention, let me state my position that I am an Orthodox Muslim and we don't subscribe to any of the tenets of nationalism, Farrakhan on the other hand, does represent black nationalism.  Still, with that being said, Farakhan considers himself a friend and brother to orthodox Muslims all over the world, and therefore many Muslims see him as a brother, even though he does have evident differences in philosophy)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 01:27:18 AM by Allah's Slave: Abdul-Infinite »
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2006, 02:00:48 AM »
new american century?  Neo conservative?  Is he talking how about how Bush wanted to change American policy before he got in as a president??  Not sure what exactly american century is, but isn't it gobal, imperiaist govenering type?  I know both left and right critics been critizing this.   I guess their basic belief was to lead the world and stuff like that.  How can Bush create this concept if his term is about to be up?  There's got to be someone evil like him to actually this thing.  U.S. wants to dominate in space, cyberspace, military, and etc...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 02:07:22 AM by pc8381 »
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2006, 06:09:31 AM »
Ethering nationalists as a nationalist is kinda hypocritical.. Farrakhan is a wanksta.
Cause I don't care where I belong no more
What we share or not I will ignore
And I won't waste my time fitting in
Cause I don't think contrast is a sin
No, it's not a sin
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2006, 07:49:12 AM »
(since everyone else at this forum seems to want to make this an issue and a point of contention, let me state my position that I am an Orthodox Muslim and we don't subscribe to any of the tenets of nationalism, Farrakhan on the other hand, does represent black nationalism.  Still, with that being said, Farakhan considers himself a friend and brother to orthodox Muslims all over the world, and therefore many Muslims see him as a brother, even though he does have evident differences in philosophy)

I think a great point of contention is the fact that you're white.  I don't see why you'd consider him a "brother" when he'd call you a "blue-eyed devil".  The general consensus amongst most Muslims seems to be that the NOI (as well as the NGE) are not recognized as legitimate Muslim organizations.  You are definitely one of the exceptions.
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2006, 03:00:44 PM »
I think a great point of contention is the fact that you're white.  I don't see why you'd consider him a "brother" when he'd call you a "blue-eyed devil". 

farakkhan changed the noi doctrine (atleast the public message) about 10 years ago, around the time of the million man march.  he changed the message to be more inclusive, and when you hear him speak now he mentions and claims to speak for opressed people in general.  whites and jews included.   this was the reason for the split between farakkhan and khalid muhammad, khalid refused to accept the new focus.  in this talk, he specifically mentions individuals that have twisted judaism (which he praises) for their own [evil] purposes.

Quote
The general consensus amongst most Muslims seems to be that the NOI (as well as the NGE) are not recognized as legitimate Muslim organizations.  You are definitely one of the exceptions.

atleast half this talk was about respect for islam in general, and especially in the middle east, and the threat that forces within the u.s. posed towards islam.  it was a message for muslims in general; not just for some specific sect.

i wonder if most of the public noi doctrine could be considered as a doctrine that includes some elements outside of islam, but is mostly based on islam.

the notion that farad muhammad was god incarnate is probably blasphemous, but farad is not worshipped in the human form at all.  revered, but not worshipped.

the nge doctrine (which i believe is based around the secret doctrine of the noi) i believe could be considered a very loose derivative of islam.  the phenomena of the noi and the nge being loosely based on islam is not unique, there are various religious sects across the world that are either loosely based on larger religions or blends of larger religions (blends of islam, christianity, hinduism...etc).

it's ironic that in this speech farakkhan mentions concerns of u.s. officials and members of the pnac indicating a desire to "reform" islam, which he categorized as corruption.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 03:03:54 PM by nibs »
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2006, 03:28:53 PM »

Farrakhan seems like an extremely dangerous individual, this notion that he has somehow changed the nation of the islam's doctrine to be "inclusive" is as an absolute joke I believe. So what are we saying that at some point he somehow saw the light in a manner of speaking and realised he was wrong and that those arent his deep rooted feelings. This is just a public relations exercise, he still sees whites as devils and would like to massacre every white person, like I said he is an extremely dangerous individual, actually not a dangerous individual he is purely psychotic. No one is fooled by this idea that this idea that somehow doesnt suddenly absolutely despise white people this has just been a ploy to persuade moderate muslims and blacks who have been resistant to the movement to fully embrace it.
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2006, 05:49:43 PM »
Farrakhan seems like an extremely dangerous individual, this notion that he has somehow changed the nation of the islam's doctrine to be "inclusive" is as an absolute joke I believe.

there is the old saying "a leopard can't change his spots".   if you don't believe a person can change, that's fine.  what i'm saying is farrakhan has abandoned that "the white man is the devil" rhetoric for years.  if you read an unattributed transcript of his comments, you would believe that this is a man who was a black muslim concerned about muslims and blacks across the globe, and all people in general as well.

i don't know what is in his heart, only god knows what is in his heart.  i'm defending what he has said.   i can't speak to what is in his heart.

i think we can use allah's slave: abdul-infinite's comments as a guide.  he obviously didn't conclude that farrakhan was calling for the slaughter of all white people. 

the only time i've heard "farrakhan" and "white devil's" together in the last ten years is when his detractors rely on those old statements.

Quote
No one is fooled by this idea that this idea that somehow doesnt suddenly absolutely despise white people this has just been a ploy to persuade moderate muslims and blacks who have been resistant to the movement to fully embrace it.

i think the unfortunate aspect of this is that there is great merit in farrakhan's message, and many people will dismiss him offhand because of his past track record.  if you look at the second half of his comments here, he's talking about holding john kerry accountable for both his domestic and foreign policy platforms.  no other credible black leaders on a national scale were making this appeal.  if you look at kerry's platform both domestically and foreign policy, many of these liberals would have been abhorred by the positions kerry was advocating.  yet all the black leaders had their pom pom's out behind the guy.  al sharpton was somewhat critical, but to a much more subdued extent.  the blacks in congress were behind their guy, along with jesse jackson.

and that is what i think is unfortunate.  if you can look past the statements farrakhan has made in the past that offended you, there is great merit in what he has to say today.

eihtball pointed out that the noi doctrine was largely rejected as heresy; many of the most deviant claims that the noi used to espouse (space aliens...etc) have been either abandoned or simply go unmentioned today.   yet the noi continues to be dismissed because of their past.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 05:53:15 PM by nibs »
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2006, 06:21:46 PM »

Oh far from it I dont dismiss what he says, he speaks many truths and is obviously a very strong and influential figurehead but.....i am so deeply wary of his motives though and his underlying intentions. Of course I will admit this view is reinforced when I hear entire songs from rappers belonging to the NOI saying kill whitey whitey is evil crackas are devils etc and its so utterly sick. Then I have read on transcripts with other members of the NOI the same kind of mentality white devil white devil, not directed at certain individuals but on white people as a whole and then of course we have Dr Kambau who is also a well known member of the NOI saying during one of his recent uni lectures, the answer to our problems is to commit a genocide against every single white person, wipe them off the face off the earth literally. Now.....the media always seems to do everything in its power to keep this low key, you see that coupled with the fact that the actions of these members are never denounced by the leadership would suggest that such views meet with their approval.
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2006, 07:11:12 PM »
and then of course we have Dr Kambau who is also a well known member of the NOI saying during one of his recent uni lectures

dr. kamau kambon is not a member of the nation of islam.  much of the media incorrectly reported that he was a member of the nation of islam; in order to associate his statements with that group.

he has a pdf document defining "who he is" on his website.

http://www.blacknificent.com/
http://www.blacknificent.com/QandA.pdf

Quote
I am neither a member of a fraternal, civic, religious, political, nor social group;
nor have I ever been a member of any cult, sect, gang, martial arts clubmilitary group, or any national or international movement of any kind

dr. kamau kambon does not claim to be noi. 

Quote
you see that coupled with the fact that the actions of these members are never denounced by the leadership

khalid muhammad was kicked out of the noi because he refused to abandon that doctrine. 

half these rappers are not actually noi but are nge/five percenters, or nuwabians...etc.  farrakhan cannot control what the rappers say, you surely have older ice cube and kam and mc ren albums espousing the older message.  "made in america" and "kamnesia" progressively incorporated more elements of the updated beliefs.
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2006, 08:26:49 PM »
I honestly don't believe Farrakhan has changed a whole lot.  When I read Malcolm X's speech after he came back from the Hajj, I could tell the brother was genuine and had completely changed his outlook.  But Farrakhan...dude has always struck me as being particularly good at telling people what they want to hear, and I remember how I used to buy into what he said myself.  But the thing is, he's most definitely all about business, and by the 80s', the AMM was stealing away a lot of the NOI's power and influence.  If anything, I think he's simply toned down the "blue-eyed devil" rhetoric because he realized that being public about it was bad for the NOI's image and lessened their chances of successful recruiting.  I have yet to meet one NOI member who didn't still hold those views, even today.

farrakhan cannot control what the rappers say, you surely have older ice cube and kam and mc ren albums espousing the older message.  "made in america" and "kamnesia" progressively incorporated more elements of the updated beliefs.

Yeah, but think about how closely he's associated himself with the hip-hop community since the days of Public Enemy and Ice Cube.  When Cube was making songs like "Horny Lil Devil" and "Cave Bitch" and all the conservatives were trying to get his music banned, Farrakhan was standing up for him, praising him for speaking the truth and telling NOI members that Cube was a good role model and shit like that.  I would say that at the very least, he was essentially condoning what these cats were sayin in their music.

You are right that shit has changed since the early-90s' and a lot of NOI/NGE rappers have stopped making references to "devils" in their music, but I think that's got a lot to do with getting paper as well.  Back then, hip-hop was still seen as music that appealed only to blacks (even though there were certainly a lot of white kids listening to it), and it wasn't until around the mid- to late-90s' that a lotta rappers started realizing that white kids were their biggest fans and consumers.  It's kinda strange to me that most white kids I meet today don't seem to be aware of what was said about them during hip-hop's Afrocentric/militant days, so I guess they were successful.

BTW, MC Ren is no longer in the NOI.

Farrakhan seems like an extremely dangerous individual

I wouldn't exactly say that.  For all of the NOI's threatening posturing and all their talk of Armaggedon, they're not at all like the KKK...that is, they don't try to get their way through acts of terrorism against white people.  The NOI may be a racist organization from an ideological standpoint, but they're not a violently racist organization.  If they were, they would have been declared a terrorist organization by now, as the KKK has been.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 07:09:59 AM by Eihtball »
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2006, 09:19:42 PM »
Many comments were said, I think it's been a beneficial discussion on both ends, props to Nibs for actually listening to the audio and also for providing us with useful insight and info.  I can't copy and paste everything so let me just comment on a few things that immediately come to mind.

-I wouldn't look at it so much as virtuoso said, as Farakhan "changing".  Rather, I think he is a man who is sincerely and deeply concerned with the plight of black people.  He is sincerely motivated towards uplifting oppressed people all over the world, and he is clearly very angry at imperialist perpetrated by America, Isreal, and Britian.  With that being said, he has many followers, he is looked upon as a spiritual leader of thousands of black men.  He takes this job very seriously.  He cares deeply for his followers.  It has been reported in different accounts, that when presented with the orthodox Islam question, Fard, Elijah, and Farakhan have held the mindset that their people "weren't quite ready for it yet" or that "they needed to be cleaned up" first, or that "there first has to be black unity before their can be any black/white unity."

...in other words, to make a long story short.  I don't think that Fard, Elijah, or Farakhan have changed their beliefs, I think it is more that they tend to give their followers what they are ready and prepared for.  As Elijah said once, "feed the babies milk, not meat."  In other words, what he is saying is these men just came into Islam from lives that many times have been very rough, and they are trying to feed their followers knowledge; piecemeal, slowly but surely developing their minds and their spirits.  Somehow, deep down I do believe that the ultimate goal and intent is for them to be unified with Muslims all over the world.

-Also, somebody on here tried to claim that Farakhan wanted to commit genocide against white people or something like that.  This is totally false.  He has told his followers that when they (non-white people) come to power, they don't want to be like the Jews and do the same thing to somebody else that they had done to them (meaning Jews persecuted by Hitler then persecuting the Palestinians.)

« Last Edit: February 21, 2006, 09:23:26 PM by Allah's Slave: Abdul-Infinite »
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2006, 09:31:29 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Didn't Elijah believe that he himself was the prophet? All the Muslims I know (and I know a lot) have no respect or regard for him and say he would not be welcome by Orthdox Muslims or allowed to enter Mecca. Is this true?
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2006, 11:59:13 PM »
didn't farrakkhan say he believed that white people were created by an evil scientist?




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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2006, 01:16:38 AM »
didn't farrakkhan say he believed that white people were created by an evil scientist?




You got to see the deeper psychology in all of this. You can't take everything for face value.  Understand their target audience.  The Nation of Islam doesn't usually find it's converts at Harvard, they find many of their converts in prison.  They are speaking to black men who have had their lives destroyed, black men who are x-gangsta's, drugdealers, and pimps.  Now, most people don't give a damn about black criminals, but what's special about Fard Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad, and Farrakhan is that they do give a damn about these black men who have had their lives destroyed.  For example, while the rest of the world turned their backs on O.J. Simpson and Micheal Jackson, the Nation of Islam still expressed love and concern for their situation, and they provided excellent security for them while they were going through trials.

Those are celebrity examples, but many are people nobody knows and nobody cares about who have found themselves caught up in the system.  Now that probably doesn't mean anything to all of you, but there are people out there who do care for the disenfranchised.

Have any of ya'll ever dealt with an addict before?  If you know anything, you don't tell them they are doing anything wrong, they will lash out at you.  They will not accept critisism.  However, if you tell an addict, a criminal, or a member of the disenfranchised why he is like he is, and you explain to him the environmental factors (such as 400 years of oppression, slavery, media manipulation of social norms and desires, white ownership of damn near everything) then you might have a chance of getting through to him.  Because you will remove the giult from his heart, and you will call him to action against the real source of his misery.  Then later, once you have cleaned up his self-image to a manageable level then you can teach him responsibility for his own actions, and insert other beneficial teachings.  But initially, you have to teach a struggling man that it isn't all his fault, we don't exist in a vacuum, mankind is inter-connected, their is a rhyme and reason to everything.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 01:21:51 AM by Allah's Slave: Abdul-Infinite »
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"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2006, 01:26:40 AM »
didn't farrakkhan say he believed that white people were created by an evil scientist?




You got to see the deeper psychology in all of this. You can't take everything for face value.  Understand their target audience.  The Nation of Islam doesn't usually find it's converts at Harvard, they find many of their converts in prison.  They are speaking to black men who have had their lives destroyed, black men who are x-gangsta's, drugdealers, and pimps.  Now, most people don't give a damn about black criminals, but what's special about Fard Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad, and Farrakhan is that they do give a damn about these black men who have had their lives destroyed.  For example, while the rest of the world turned their backs on O.J. Simpson and Micheal Jackson, the Nation of Islam still expressed love and concern for their situation, and they provided excellent security for them while they were going through trials.

Those are celebrity examples, but many are people nobody knows and nobody cares about who have found themselves caught up in the system.  Now that probably doesn't mean anything to all of you, but there are people out there who do care for the disenfranchised.

Have any of ya'll ever dealt with an addict before?  If you know anything, you don't tell them they are doing anything wrong, they will lash out at you.  They will not accept critisism.  However, if you tell an addict, a criminal, or a member of the disenfranchised why he is like he is, and you explain to him the environmental factors (such as 400 years of oppression, slavery, media manipulation of social norms and desires, white ownership of damn near everything) then you might have a chance of getting through to him.  Because you will remove the giult from his heart, and you will call him to action against the real source of his misery.  Then later, once you have cleaned up his self-image to a manageable level then you can teach him responsibility for his own actions, and insert other beneficial teachings.  But initially, you have to teach a struggling man that it isn't all his fault, we don't exist in a vacuum, mankind is inter-connected, their is a rhyme and reason to everything.
So your gonna play games with the less advantaged by playing on their waeknesses so they'll beilive your religon/views of life? Either way you shouldn't say " white people were created by an evil scientist" unless you mean it, beacuse that's the same attitude behind the rascism African-Americans have encoutered over the the past 400 years.
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2006, 01:59:22 AM »

So your gonna play games with the less advantaged by playing on their waeknesses so they'll beilive your religon/views of life? Either way you shouldn't say " white people were created by an evil scientist" unless you mean it, beacuse that's the same attitude behind the rascism African-Americans have encoutered over the the past 400 years.



You can sit here and second guess the teachings of Fard Muhammad if you like, but the bottom line is, you ain't out on the front lines, deep in the city trying to raise up a people who had been seperated from their continent, culture, way of life, and forced into slavery. 

What I was trying to explain is that I believe Fard Muhammad also didn't believe that white people were created by an evil scientist, but I think that out of his concern for black people living in oppression, he said certain things to reach them and get through to them, and then later they have steered the focus away from such teachings.
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

********
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2006, 07:11:18 AM »
Now that probably doesn't mean anything to all of you, but there are people out there who do care for the disenfranchised.

Homie, I hardly think it's appropriate for a white man who (presumably) grew up middle class and whose sole connection with the black community is through Islam and hip-hop to lecture ME, of all people, on "caring for the disenfranchised".  The "disenfranchised" were the kinda people I grew up with...can you say the same?

As I've said in other threads, I've been down that road before in my life, thinking of Farrakhan as a personal hero and thinking of white people as "devils".  That was when I was an angry and rebellious young brother, but I done changed since.  So yeah, I care a lot about cats that grew up the same way I did (or worse) and want to change, but that doesn't mean I'd tell them to join the NOI and keep living in ignorance.  The AMM, sure, but not the NOI.

What I was trying to explain is that I believe Fard Muhammad also didn't believe that white people were created by an evil scientist, but I think that out of his concern for black people living in oppression, he said certain things to reach them and get through to them, and then later they have steered the focus away from such teachings.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said before: Farrakhan is good at telling people what they want to hear...in other words, preying on their ignorance.  And he's also been smart to align himself with entertainers that disenfranchised youth will listen to.  Either way, that doesn't excuse what he does.  And I can acknowledge that yeah, the NOI has had some positive impact on black communities.  I just don't like the way they're doing it.  The AMM has reached a lot of brothers, too (more than the NOI these days, in fact) in the black communities and in prison, without making references to devils and Yakub and shit like that.

As an orthodox Muslim, you should be deeply disturbed and offended by the NOI's separatist doctrine, which undermines the very prospect of universalism on which Islam was founded.  There's a very good reason that the majority of your fellow Muslims call the NOI's beliefs "Farrakhanism".  I think you need to just stop listening to Ice Cube and PE so much.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 07:32:22 AM by Eihtball »
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2006, 07:44:10 AM »
Didn't Elijah believe that he himself was the prophet? All the Muslims I know (and I know a lot) have no respect or regard for him and say he would not be welcome by Orthdox Muslims or allowed to enter Mecca. Is this true?

this is their argument:
the qu'ran says two things.  
a) god sends a different messenger to all people
b) muhammad is the final messenger.

they interpret that last statement as relative to the arabs.  muhammad is the last messenger for the arab's, thus the qu'ran was delivered in arabic ot the arab people.  this leaves the possibility of other people getting their own messenger after muhammad.   surely orthodox muslims would find this as heresy.

farrakhan opens his speech here by referring to elijah mohammad as a prophet, and farad mohammad as god.

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didn't farrakkhan say he believed that white people were created by an evil scientist?

that early noi doctrine was in many ways a response to nazi germany's concept of the aryan race being a master race, and also the interest in eugenics at the time.  remember, it was nazi germany that claimed that the blonde haired, blue-eyed aryans were superior to all other races.  the noi responded with the claim that actually the aryan race was inferior and evil...etc.  taken in context, there was alot of debate about race, eugenics, and racial superiority.  the noi was making a counter argument; and the noi doctrine is really the only doctrine that has persisted to the present day.  this was not a completely frivilous debate;  it had been pervasive within the scientific community as well.

  
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Eihtball

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2006, 07:58:34 AM »
that early noi doctrine was in many ways a response to nazi germany's concept of the aryan race being a master race

What's really interesting is that Elijah Muhammad once invited George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the American Nazy Party, to lecture at an NOI meeting.
 

nibs

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2006, 08:06:42 AM »
I honestly don't believe Farrakhan has changed a whole lot.  When I read Malcolm X's speech after he came back from the Hajj, I could tell the brother was genuine and had completely changed his outlook.  But Farrakhan...dude has always struck me as being particularly good at telling people what they want to hear, and I remember how I used to buy into what he said myself.  But the thing is, he's most definitely all about business, and by the 80s', the AMM was stealing away a lot of the NOI's power and influence.  If anything, I think he's simply toned down the "blue-eyed devil" rhetoric because he realized that being public about it was bad for the NOI's image and lessened their chances of successful recruiting.  I have yet to meet one NOI member who didn't still hold those views, even today.

malcolm x left the noi.  it was easy for him to completely renounce those beliefs.  louis farrakhan restarted the noi to get back to the teachings of elijah mohammad.  although he has toned down the message, it would be difficult for him to completely abandon the original message; it would be abandoning the very reason he restarted the noi.  thus his statements have to be more calculated.

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BTW, MC Ren is no longer in the NOI.

that's interesting.  i guess not surprising as the noi message has been toned down in his lyrics for a while now.

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What's really interesting is that Elijah Muhammad once invited George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the American Nazy Party, to lecture at an NOI meeting.

without question there is a history of anti-semitism within the noi.  all i'm saying is farrakhan has tried to abandon that message.
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2006, 08:36:27 AM »
As I've said in other threads, I've been down that road before in my life, thinking of Farrakhan as a personal hero and thinking of white people as "devils".  That was when I was an angry and rebellious young brother, but I done changed since.

what about farrakhan's message of self-reliance and self-discipline?  if you look at the speech originally linked, he's saying alot of good, positive things that i think you would agree with.  it's only the history of the noi that you are disagreeing with, not what he is saying now.

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As an orthodox Muslim, you should be deeply disturbed and offended by the NOI's separatist doctrine, which undermines the very prospect of universalism on which Islam was founded.

universalism...islam certainly accepts christianity and judiasm.  the qu'ran does say to fight against oppression and to be wary of the motives of non-believers that don't respect and preserve peace with the believers.  so the universalism seems to apply mainly to true believers of other faiths;  but not necessarily to oppressed people and their oppressors.  the separatism has evolved into this principle of blacks taking responsibility for their community, supporting black businesses...etc.  farrakhan has always embraced christianity; he used to be criticized for preaching more from the bible than the qu'ran.  he spoke very graciously in this speech here of true judiasm.

you are criticizing old doctrine.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 08:42:25 PM by nibs »
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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2006, 08:42:29 AM »
malcolm x left the noi.  it was easy for him to completely renounce those beliefs.  louis farrakhan restarted the noi to get back to the teachings of elijah mohammad.  although he has toned down the message, it would be difficult for him to completely abandon the original message; it would be abandoning the very reason he restarted the noi.  thus his statements have to be more calculated.

The fact that he even restarted the NOI in the first place seems wrong.  Why not just follow W.D. Mohammed and support the AMM?

without question there is a history of anti-semitism within the noi.  all i'm saying is farrakhan has tried to abandon that message.

Doesn't mean he's sincere necesarily.

what about farrakhan's message of self-reliance and self-discipline?  if you look at the speech originally linked, he's saying alot of good, positive things that i think you would agree with.  it's only the history of the noi that you are disagreeing with, not what he is saying now.

Like I have said, I can admire that the NOI has done good, but I don't like the way they're doing it.

you are criticizing old doctrine.

I simply don't believe that doctrine isn't heavily instilled in NOI members to this day.  Every muh'fucka I've ever met who's NOI is still very much anti-white/anti-Semitic/separatist in the most literal way imaginable, not in a metaphorical context as you and Infinite are trying to place it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 08:47:36 AM by Eihtball »
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2006, 09:05:51 AM »
The fact that he even restarted the NOI in the first place seems wrong.  Why not just follow W.D. Mohammed and support the AMM?

it's my understanding that the amm simply decided to embrace orthodox islam.  the noi had more than a religious message, it had a political message that the amm probably would have stifled.  it's hard to maintain a political agenda that revolves around black empowerment and at the same time supporting an all inclusive religious agenda.  farrakhan now has allied and tries  tomore closely associates the noi with the larger muslim world, but at the same time the noi preserves it's agenda of black empowerment.

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I simply don't believe that doctrine isn't heavily instilled in NOI members to this day.  Every muh'fucka I've ever met who's NOI is still very much anti-white/anti-Semitic/separatist in the most literal way imaginable, not in a metaphorical context as you and Infinite are trying to place it.

let's take a step back.  the noi message is largely focused on black empowerment, and uplifting the black community.  i think we can agree that there is a level of inequality between the black community and the larger american community as a whole.  because the noi is focused on empowering the black community, there is that sense of neglecting the larger community as a whole.  it's not possible to focus on a sub-group without ignoring the larger community to an extent.  additionally, the noi believes that the u.s. government continues to be biased against blacks in many ways, and against the muslim world as well.  thus it calls for a rejection of american values & policies in many way.  "america is unjust".

do you agree with the noi's assessment of american policies and agenda's?  do you agree with the noi's desire for black empowerment?

what black leaders do you feel have a better message and do a better job to realize these goals?   i'd say there are few if any with the same level of visibility as farrakhan. 
"a four letter word is going out to every single enemy" - kam
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2006, 10:52:43 AM »
Always good to read the views of you people, Nibs I didnt realise that Kambau wasnt a part of the NOI, so I will take your word on that one and renounce what I said. I agree with eighball though he seems to be just playing a game of window dressing, reveal the veil and there is a monster that lurks beneath. I would like to be proved wrong though because like I have already mentioned on many issues he does seem to be on the ball, but I liken his message to that of wild berries looks good smells good but the taste can kill you. Its his idealogy which I find disturbing perhaps not disturbing in the sense that he can orchestrate a genocide, as I believe most black people at least those with some kind of sense realise they are in a melting pot along with many whites and as such its the government and its bankrollers who are the enemy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2006, 11:13:36 AM by virtuoso »
 

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Re: Farrakhan drops ether on Bush, you must hear this...
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2006, 11:09:38 AM »

So your gonna play games with the less advantaged by playing on their waeknesses so they'll beilive your religon/views of life? Either way you shouldn't say " white people were created by an evil scientist" unless you mean it, beacuse that's the same attitude behind the rascism African-Americans have encoutered over the the past 400 years.



You can sit here and second guess the teachings of Fard Muhammad if you like, but the bottom line is, you ain't out on the front lines, deep in the city trying to raise up a people who had been seperated from their continent, culture, way of life, and forced into slavery.

What I was trying to explain is that I believe Fard Muhammad also didn't believe that white people were created by an evil scientist, but I think that out of his concern for black people living in oppression, he said certain things to reach them and get through to them, and then later they have steered the focus away from such teachings.
Don't even sit there and act like you were. So you can;t even make that arguement. Like Eihtball said he's "preying on their ignorance" and just taking advanage of there unfortunate situation to recruit members to the NOI.