Author Topic: Reason Why Many White People Don't Accept Islam Is Similar To Why The Jews...  (Read 2966 times)

[sepehr]

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The real question is why many Arabs in the Middle East don't accept Christianity.

Oops I forgot.......if they do they are thrown in jail.
What an ignorant statement, if this was the case, how can you explain the 14 million or so Christian population within the Middle East ?
He always ignores these kind of statements. Cwalker where are you?
 

h cottie is bac-tive?

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The real question is why many Arabs in the Middle East don't accept Christianity.

Oops I forgot.......if they do they are thrown in jail.
What an ignorant statement, if this was the case, how can you explain the 14 million or so Christian population within the Middle East ?
He always ignores these kind of statements. Cwalker where are you?

just like he ignored my post about the three college white boys that burned down the churches wen he convinced himself a long time ago that it was done by muslims.

Cwalker ----->  :-[

I WENT TO STAPLES CENTER WEN I WAS WALKING MY GOLD RAG FALL OF MY POCKET AND THE GROUND WAS WET TO AND DIRTY MY RAG GOT DIRTY A LIL BIT PULL IT IT BACK AND MAKE SURE IT WOULD NOT DROP AGAIN ROCKING MY RAG AGAIN HOMIE 8
 

Shallow

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accepting christianity? are you trying to say that Islam teaches bias towards other religions (mainly christianity)?

i hope you're just tryin to say that muslims don't follow christianity becaus at a young age they are taught that islam is the right path. becaus then you might have a valid point, which i wasnt trying to argue in the first place. my statement was regarding posters that have been brainwashed into believing islam is about evil, fear, and hatred towards other which is the exact opposite of its true nature. you dont see me talking about how christianity is horrible becaus christians used to kill black people and spread hate amongst the white race. i dont follow christianity because it is my belief that Jesus Christ was/is not God, but only a prophet of God. that doesn't mean that I haven't learned about the beliefs of other religions as i've grown up, which i can say, the posters like cwalker do not.


While I'll always have issues with the methods of Muhammad and his followers it is hard to doubt that the main focus of Islam is peace. Most people on the board that state otherwise are probably just doing it for kicks. While you may be tolerant and not go out of your way to post Christian bashing posts, I have seen them on this board, and I'm willing to bet that all Muslim boards would have their share of jackasses who go out of their way to offend people. THere is nothing Western or Christian about being an antagonist. It's a human trait.

All I was saying was that if you are raised as a Christian and you accept Christianity then by logic you have to not accept Islam, but you must tolerate it in order to be a good Christian, and if you are raised as a Muslim and you accept Islam then by logic you cannot accept Christianity, but you must tolerate it to be a good Muslim.

You say you think Jesus was just a prophet and not of the essence of God. My guess is you were taught this your whole life, like I was taught the opposite my whole life. Or if you were taught the way I was then you probably rebelled against the Christians in your life because they were hypocritical. Like 99% of Muslims that believe Jesus is a prophet were raised to think that and the few are the converts that chose to think that. My point is simple; when you are raised a certain way you tend to stick with that way.
 

h cottie is bac-tive?

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no doubt about that Shallow. i wasnt really taught much about the teachings when i was young, my mother had taken me to a personal teacher that taught me and my siblings how to read the Qu'ran and pray. i didn't really attend sunday school because as a young kid, like most other kids, i didn't want to go to any kind of school. but as i grew up i tried to put myself into a neutral state to really decide for myself. it was hard for me to be neutral since my whole life i was taught to be muslim, and i still remember some of the things i learned as a kid, but the one that stuck out most to me was that there have never been any changes/corrections in the Qu'ran.

things like Jesus couldn't of been God, why would God go to the bathroom?, and various things like that i tried to steer away from in my personal quest. it was when i was reading the Qu'ran and actually started to understand its beliefs that I felt in my heart it was the true religion of mankind. many of times when i have debated with my friends about religion (some jewish, some catholic, some christian) i have expressed to them that I believe Islam is the perfection of Judaism and Christianity. i tell them that i dont see it as different religions, but as one that was perfected over time. but that argument goes only so far, and i respect their views, altho i know they don't know much about theirs/mine/other religions, like most people i encounter.

they accept what they were taught as kids, stick with that view and don't actually try to understand it for themselves. which i believe was your original point, i jus thought i would share a piece of my experiences. i would be interested if you feel like sharing some of ur experiences, but you don't have to. i just think it's interesting when people share a part of their lives.

I WENT TO STAPLES CENTER WEN I WAS WALKING MY GOLD RAG FALL OF MY POCKET AND THE GROUND WAS WET TO AND DIRTY MY RAG GOT DIRTY A LIL BIT PULL IT IT BACK AND MAKE SURE IT WOULD NOT DROP AGAIN ROCKING MY RAG AGAIN HOMIE 8
 

Shallow

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no doubt about that Shallow. i wasnt really taught much about the teachings when i was young, my mother had taken me to a personal teacher that taught me and my siblings how to read the Qu'ran and pray. i didn't really attend sunday school because as a young kid, like most other kids, i didn't want to go to any kind of school. but as i grew up i tried to put myself into a neutral state to really decide for myself. it was hard for me to be neutral since my whole life i was taught to be muslim, and i still remember some of the things i learned as a kid, but the one that stuck out most to me was that there have never been any changes/corrections in the Qu'ran.

things like Jesus couldn't of been God, why would God go to the bathroom?, and various things like that i tried to steer away from in my personal quest. it was when i was reading the Qu'ran and actually started to understand its beliefs that I felt in my heart it was the true religion of mankind. many of times when i have debated with my friends about religion (some jewish, some catholic, some christian) i have expressed to them that I believe Islam is the perfection of Judaism and Christianity. i tell them that i dont see it as different religions, but as one that was perfected over time. but that argument goes only so far, and i respect their views, altho i know they don't know much about theirs/mine/other religions, like most people i encounter.

they accept what they were taught as kids, stick with that view and don't actually try to understand it for themselves. which i believe was your original point, i jus thought i would share a piece of my experiences. i would be interested if you feel like sharing some of ur experiences, but you don't have to. i just think it's interesting when people share a part of their lives.


See now my life and your life in that regard are exactly the same except while you were taught Islam as a kid and then chose it for your self later in life I was taught Christianity as a kid and chose it for my self later in life. We had slightly different reasons; you had your views on whether God can be man and that the Quran was never changed, and I had mine on whether God's prophet would have to pick up arms and fight oppressors when a prophet like Moses had God coming in and dealing with it for him. I guess I couldn't, or refused to, accept a Prophet of God having to engage in violent battles to maintain the word of peace. I also saw no error in anything written in the Gospel, as far as my moral stance go. Everything in the Bible that condemns certain lifestyles come from outside the Bible and it is the black and white issues that Jesus touches on in the Gospel. I always argued htat if the church changed the Bible to duit themselves then why wouldn't they change it so they don't contradict it. Of course all that is meaningless when compared to the feeling I got upon reading the Gospel for the first time in a serious way. I was 19 going on 20 and I just picked it up one day and started reading. I felt something, a presence enter me and light go off in my head, and slowly over the course of the next year I rid myself of all things I considerred wrong or evil. Now this could have simply been me maturing past my adolescent stage and the presence I felt could have been a subconscious plea for me to keep away from bad influences (I wasn't that bad a kid, but I went out of my way to choose a righteous path afterwards. I took some time though). I choose to believe it as divine because that is the faith I have. I argue and debate religion often with both Christians and non-Christians but that is more for my learning rather than to try and change others. I learn a lot about what I feel and think when I debate and here other arguments and ideas. I feel if Christianity is the true religion and I found it on my own then so will everyone else and it is not my place to push it on people.
 

h cottie is bac-tive?

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very admirable post shallow. i believe that whatever religion you believe in, it doesn't matter as long as you stay true to yourself. through islam i've learned that it's never wise to force your religion upon another, but to let them decide for themself because at the end of the day, you are accountable for your actions, not any1 else...... i wanted to point out a specific statement in your post:

"I felt something, a presence enter me and light go off in my head, and slowly over the course of the next year I rid myself of all things I considerred wrong or evil"

i had the same exact feeling not so long ago. i was never a "bad" kid. i smoked weed on a regular basis during my high school years and drank a little every so often. i now believe that it was mainly the influences around me that kept me on that dangerous road. i wouldnt say it was completely peer pressure because at any point i could've said nah im good, but i didn't have the will to do it. it was easier for me to just say yes. not too long ago i started slowing down residually and after i got busted by my coach, i really knew that it cud potentially screw my life up. i used to brainwash myself into thinking i was a good muslim because i believed in islam, but i never really felt in my heart that kind of presence you spoke about until recently. i always knew islam was the right religion for me, but i also knew that i wasn't being a good muslim becaus of the things i was doin besides the weed & alcohol. i now understand that my time on earth is only a train stop....i'm waiting for that train to come and take me to my real destination: paradise.

I WENT TO STAPLES CENTER WEN I WAS WALKING MY GOLD RAG FALL OF MY POCKET AND THE GROUND WAS WET TO AND DIRTY MY RAG GOT DIRTY A LIL BIT PULL IT IT BACK AND MAKE SURE IT WOULD NOT DROP AGAIN ROCKING MY RAG AGAIN HOMIE 8
 

Shallow

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very admirable post shallow. i believe that whatever religion you believe in, it doesn't matter as long as you stay true to yourself. through islam i've learned that it's never wise to force your religion upon another, but to let them decide for themself because at the end of the day, you are accountable for your actions, not any1 else...... i wanted to point out a specific statement in your post:

"I felt something, a presence enter me and light go off in my head, and slowly over the course of the next year I rid myself of all things I considerred wrong or evil"

i had the same exact feeling not so long ago. i was never a "bad" kid. i smoked weed on a regular basis during my high school years and drank a little every so often. i now believe that it was mainly the influences around me that kept me on that dangerous road. i wouldnt say it was completely peer pressure because at any point i could've said nah im good, but i didn't have the will to do it. it was easier for me to just say yes. not too long ago i started slowing down residually and after i got busted by my coach, i really knew that it cud potentially screw my life up. i used to brainwash myself into thinking i was a good muslim because i believed in islam, but i never really felt in my heart that kind of presence you spoke about until recently. i always knew islam was the right religion for me, but i also knew that i wasn't being a good muslim becaus of the things i was doin besides the weed & alcohol. i now understand that my time on earth is only a train stop....i'm waiting for that train to come and take me to my real destination: paradise.

I haven't distanced myself from any of my former peers since I try not to make it seem like a grew above them (not saying that you did or do). I still hang around and represent myself in hopes of being a good influence. I stay around weed smokers so I can not smoke infront of them and pass it by. The funny thing they usually say is "God made weed" to which I respond "God made Satan too, so just because God made it doesn't make it good". They seem to stop arguing after that.

As for pushing my religion. My interpretation of Christianity is very different from most. While I personally choose to believe in the whole son of God thing I can easily see it metaphorically or even as something greater. As it states in the Gospel of John; In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God. The Word was the light and the word became Christ. So when Jesus refers to himself in the Gospel I seem him referring to the Word of God and when he says no man will see the father but through me, I take it as no one who doesn't have the word of God, the knowledge of what is good, will gain acceptance. In that regard my view of salvation is open to anyone who is righteous and has moral values, regardless of the traditions, customs, and superstitions that go with their chosen lifestyle or religion. So there is no point for me to push my technicalities on people. It's the message I try and spread, sometimes in a subtle way, sometimes in a brazen way. I don't bother talking to righteoes people in a persusive way and when I meet sinners I usually push tem towards their chosen way. If it's an athiest I use logic and ethics, a Muslim; I tell him to read the Quran, and Hindu; I ask him what his religion belives in, and I tend to find the message of all is the same and the parts I disagree with morally most do anyway. For me, God's word and message is greater than anything written down in one place, it's everywhere.
 

Macaframa

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i dont accept islam cuz youre a bunch of fucking kooks
sounds about right
ahah yea
 

h cottie is bac-tive?

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i dont accept islam cuz youre a bunch of fucking kooks
sounds about right
ahah yea

i guess thats why chappelle went "crazy"  ::)

I WENT TO STAPLES CENTER WEN I WAS WALKING MY GOLD RAG FALL OF MY POCKET AND THE GROUND WAS WET TO AND DIRTY MY RAG GOT DIRTY A LIL BIT PULL IT IT BACK AND MAKE SURE IT WOULD NOT DROP AGAIN ROCKING MY RAG AGAIN HOMIE 8
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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through islam i've learned that it's never wise to force your religion upon another

You really needed Islam to reach this conclusion?

I've reached it long time ago, without being Muslim for some reason.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

h cottie is bac-tive?

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through islam i've learned that it's never wise to force your religion upon another

You really needed Islam to reach this conclusion?

I've reached it long time ago, without being Muslim for some reason.

yes i did and thats why Jehova's Witnesses can suck my dick

I WENT TO STAPLES CENTER WEN I WAS WALKING MY GOLD RAG FALL OF MY POCKET AND THE GROUND WAS WET TO AND DIRTY MY RAG GOT DIRTY A LIL BIT PULL IT IT BACK AND MAKE SURE IT WOULD NOT DROP AGAIN ROCKING MY RAG AGAIN HOMIE 8
 

Shallow

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through islam i've learned that it's never wise to force your religion upon another

You really needed Islam to reach this conclusion?

I've reached it long time ago, without being Muslim for some reason.


I don't think he ever said you had to be Muslim to learn that. No need to antagonize. You can use logic and reasoning to come to any conclusion with regards to morality. Thinking you have to follow any particular religion to come to those conclusions is ridiculous. That doesn't mean that some don't learn that from the scriptures they read. Morality pre-dates any written down religion, but religion still for hte most part writes of morality so many will learn morality through religion.
 

I TO DA GEEZY

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I wasn't antagonizing. I guess it's in the eyes of the beholder though. I simply asked a question to which he had answered in the affirmative, as u can most likely see.
We are all human beings isn't that a good enough reason for peace?
 

nibs

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As for pushing my religion. My interpretation of Christianity is very different from most. While I personally choose to believe in the whole son of God thing I can easily see it metaphorically or even as something greater.

i think it's safe to say that that sort of metaphorical view is not inconsistent with islam.  the issue in the qu'ran with christ is that god isn't a man with a seed that impregnates women.  the virgin conception of mary is accepted by the qu'ran.  christ is inspired by the holy spirit according to the qu'ran.  it's just the notion of god begetting a child, and that's problematic.  also the notion that god has equals is inconsistent with the qu'ran.  the qu'ran readily accepts the notion that christ's birth was miraculous, and does not challenge the notion that christ was a divine indidual (certainly more divine than most).  it's really two small technical points where the disagreement occurs.

sura 19:17-21
She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (God) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear God."
He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."


and in sura 21:

sura 21:91
And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

 
the argument over the nature of christ between islam and the some of the more popular denominations of christianity is a small distinction, but also very significant.

the similarities between the two far outweigh the differences.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 07:39:46 AM by nibs »
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nibs

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There it is again, you taking a small percentage of whites which represents no where near the minority and make it seem like most whites act like this. It's no different than saying most muslim rioted over the cartoons.

look at the american government, and this dubai ports issue.  95% of the american government, both democrats and republicans, have made it clear that they just don't trust arabs period.  the uae is one of the few arab states (along with kuwait & qatar) that have been helpful and accomodating in the war against iraq.  for example the saudis opposed the u.s. using bases in saudi arabia; turkey (not arab, but muslim) denied usage of u.s. bases and their airspace; as a result u.s. troops and operations largely were based in kuwait, qatar and the uae.  if the u.s. govt feels they cannot trust one of the few arab states that supported their preemptive war against another arab state (iraq); it's clear that the u.s. government feels it cannot trust any arabs at all.  it's clear that this is a position widely held across the u.s; based on the reaction to this dubai issue.

it seems clear to me that in the u.s. the arab world is not respected.  the cartoon issue that you referenced make it clear to me that in europe, the muslim world is not respected either.
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