Author Topic: Question for the Moslems  (Read 632 times)

dexter

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Question for the Moslems
« on: March 23, 2006, 11:07:24 AM »
Jews(Hebrews) believe in a Messiah
Does The Koran mention Him or someone similar?
 

nibs

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2006, 12:03:43 PM »
the qu'ran refers to jesus as the messiah.  the rashad khalifah translation literally uses the word messiah.  the yusef ali translation in the index says messiah: see jesus.  the literal meaning of messiah is "annointed one".  and jesus will testify against those that did not believe in him on the day of judgement.

there is also the notion of the mahdi across islam, but this is not mentioned in the qu'ran.

sura 4:157-159 (sher ali translation)
And for their saying, `We did slay the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of ALLAH;' whereas they slew him not, nor did they bring about his death upon the cross, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no certain knowledge thereof, but only pursue a conjecture; and they did not arrive at a certainty concerning it.   
On the contrary, ALLAH exalted him to Himself. And ALLAH is Mighty, Wise.   
And there is none among the People of the Book but will continue to believe in it before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 12:07:05 PM by nibs »
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Jip

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2006, 12:09:27 PM »
i cant wait for the day of judgement to pimp slap that bitch


oh wait ITS NEVER COMING
 

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2006, 08:40:20 AM »
Let me tell you something...God may have one thousand names or faces. all you gotta do is believe in one and follow Him. He is there for all of us !

It doesn't matter what religion are you following, because they all have the same purpose and beliefs. But that's what people don't wanna understand and they start wars in the name of God. The fact is human person is mean in its essence, that;s why we will never get along.  I'm Christian, but that doesn;t give me the right to criticise another religion or take it in van...The Qu'ran, The Holy Bible...they all mention Jesus, what's the point man? Religion exists for us to believe in hope and try to be better persons...to realize that we have a meaning on this fuckin earth, love, have kids, enjoy the life cause it's short...

maybe i;m trippin...but no i don't !
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Kassem

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2006, 08:44:03 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Truest shit eva said
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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2006, 08:49:11 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not true.

I'm not following any religion.
 

Wessia4LiaNia Chieee Chieee

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2006, 09:00:13 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not true.

I'm not following any religion.

It's not about following ANY religion, you follow the religion you were born into. The thing is to follow goodness, peace, wisdom. you are missing the point KAIN
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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2006, 09:09:19 AM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not true.

I'm not following any religion.

It's not about following ANY religion, you follow the religion you were born into. The thing is to follow goodness, peace, wisdom. you are missing the point KAIN

Religion is evil.
 

africas seed

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2006, 10:13:39 AM »
Let me tell you something...God may have one thousand names or faces. all you gotta do is believe in one and follow Him. He is there for all of us !

It doesn't matter what religion are you following, because they all have the same purpose and beliefs. But that's what people don't wanna understand and they start wars in the name of God. The fact is human person is mean in its essence, that;s why we will never get along. I'm Christian, but that doesn;t give me the right to criticise another religion or take it in van...The Qu'ran, The Holy Bible...they all mention Jesus, what's the point man? Religion exists for us to believe in hope and try to be better persons...to realize that we have a meaning on this fuckin earth, love, have kids, enjoy the life cause it's short...

maybe i;m trippin...but no i don't !

well said man. true shit. u dont have to be religious. God may be just as pleased if one lived a good life and was more spiritual than religious.
 

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2006, 10:44:33 AM »
iGod may be just as pleased if one lived a good life and was more spiritual than religious.

word
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nibs

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2006, 02:55:05 PM »
well said man. true shit. u dont have to be religious. God may be just as pleased if one lived a good life and was more spiritual than religious.

what is this distinction between religion and spirituality that you are drawing?  by most definitions the two are intimately tied together.

across several religions there is the notion that it is more than just the actions and type of life one leads, but also the nature of what one believes that determines what happens after death.

there is pretty much consistency that nothing bad will happen to a person that has led a good life, but there is some debate to how much good will happen.   
« Last Edit: March 26, 2006, 02:57:00 PM by nibs »
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nibs

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2006, 04:42:16 PM »
Let me tell you something...God may have one thousand names or faces. all you gotta do is believe in one and follow Him. He is there for all of us !

It doesn't matter what religion are you following, because they all have the same purpose and beliefs.

all religions have similar purposes, but they all do not have the same purpose.  all religions can fit together in a sense.  i agree with you to the extent that no religion is horribly bad, and all do some good.  the extent of the good that they do varies.  there is actually a great contrast between most religions, especially with the modern interpretations of these religions.

Quote
Religion exists for us to believe in hope and try to be better persons...to realize that we have a meaning on this fuckin earth, love, have kids, enjoy the life cause it's short...

<snip>

It's not about following ANY religion, you follow the religion you were born into. The thing is to follow goodness, peace, wisdom. you are missing the point KAIN

there is disagreement even there across religions. 

you mentioned wisdom, where do people gain wisdom if not through religion?  if we agree that there is wisdom in religion; and we agree that various religions teach subtly and oft vastly different things, then we agree that the question of "which religion" is a completely valid and utterly important question.  different religions provide varying degrees of wisdom

let's get specific.

the quran teaches the notion that the more pious are rewarded with access to higher heavens and thus closer proximity to god.  thus, regular prayer and devotion to god is better.

the vedas and the gitas teach that there is one god that is in everything and everyone, and to escape the cycle of birth and death it is important to continually meditate on god, and at death, (and also in life) to clear one's self of all desires & negative karma, such that the soul will return to god/oneness and not to birth.

pay attention to the notion of "escape" there.  individuals not wishing to escape the cycle of birth & death would still benefit from leading "a good life" to prevent building up negative karma and preserving dharma.

people look to religion for more than just guidance on how to act; but for an explanation to the nature of existence, man and god. 

different religions paint different pictures on the nature of god as well as the potential outcomes to life.

 you suggest that "loving, and having kids" is a fundamental part of life.  this illustrates an interesting point. religions like buddhism and hinduism will reveal that these sorts of love are both temporary, and create greater ties to the false identity which makes an individual more susceptible to remaining trapped within the cycle of life and death.  this is largely why priests, monks...etc lead celibate lives.  individuals attaining the highest levels of spiritual enlightenment need not be concerned with families and children.  choose a different profession...this is not condemning love, but merely revealing aspects to it's nature.  in contrast the qu'ran encourages marriage and families.

in this sense, all religions are not the same, and do not teach the same things.  the path does matter. 
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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2006, 04:43:26 PM »
well said man. true shit. u dont have to be religious. God may be just as pleased if one lived a good life and was more spiritual than religious.

what is this distinction between religion and spirituality that you are drawing?  by most definitions the two are intimately tied together.

across several religions there is the notion that it is more than just the actions and type of life one leads, but also the nature of what one believes that determines what happens after death.

there is pretty much consistency that nothing bad will happen to a person that has led a good life, but there is some debate to how much good will happen.   
What would be the point of that then ? God won't care if you do good stuff, lead a good life, please others, but if you dont directly associate with him then you're screwed? Seems very dumb
 

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2006, 05:02:24 PM »
nibs, ima have to give u a prop on ur breakdown on contrasting the diff religions and i agree wit u on many points in ur agrument.
well said man. true shit. u dont have to be religious. God may be just as pleased if one lived a good life and was more spiritual than religious.

what is this distinction between religion and spirituality that you are drawing?  by most definitions the two are intimately tied together.


religious vs spiritual. one can be religious without being spiritual or vice versa. theres a lot of ppl out there that just go to church cuz they have to and not cuz they want to. i would say that these ppl r religious in that they adhere to certain traditions in a certain religion but i would describe them as not being spiritual as they arent practicing their faith actively and arent at peace with themselves and God or their faith.
 

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2006, 08:38:55 PM »
religious vs spiritual. one can be religious without being spiritual or vice versa. theres a lot of ppl out there that just go to church cuz they have to and not cuz they want to. i would say that these ppl r religious in that they adhere to certain traditions in a certain religion but i would describe them as not being spiritual as they arent practicing their faith actively and arent at peace with themselves and God or their faith.

the purpose to the rituals in religion is to become more spiritual.  without question people can engage in the rituals and get nothing out of it.  i think it would be hard to be spiritual without the ritual aspect.  without prayer or meditation it would be hard to be spiritual mean?  how else do people connect with their spirituality.

the rest of the rituals, whether they be offerings, charitable behavior & donations; going to church or the masjid (group worship in any form)...these are all for the seeker to enhance the spirituality of the individual.  whether it is developing humility, elinating the desire for selfishness, or developing the idea of community, togetherness, oneness...

these rituals are a large part of developing the spirituality of individuals, and this is across religions.   i think the dispute is over that the idea that the rituals are obligations.  ultimately the rituals are for the spiritual benefit of the doer, and not obligations that are needed.

this is why i question this notion of separating the rituals from spirituality.  even if one rejects commonly accepted rituals, without rituals of some sort how do they realize their own spirituality?
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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2006, 10:00:16 PM »

What would be the point of that then ? God won't care if you do good stuff, lead a good life, please others, but if you dont directly associate with him then you're screwed? Seems very dumb


The point is that Muslims believe strongly in sincerity of intention.  Sincerity of intention is crucial in combating pride, selfishness, arrogance, vanity, and showboating.  Our religion should not be for show, or to be seen of men, but rather our religion should be an effort towards seeking the pleasure of the Most High.  The best way for Muslims to get all their good deeds accepted is to do them for the sake of Allah only. 

For example, many people do good deeds and spend so that others will think more highly of them, or because they are expecting something in return.  But Allah instructs Muslims in the Qu'ran that it is better to give charity in secret, then it is to give in the open.  A person giving in secret is expecting his reward from Allah and nobody else, what is truly important is to be pious in the eyes of Allah. 

One more example is fasting.  Fasting teaches Muslims Allah-consciousness.  Because when a Muslim fasts, technically they could sneak some food or water while nobody is watching; but a Muslim learns that even when nobody is around Allah is watching.  So they endure great physical and mental struggle for the pleasure of Allah only.  There was this young highschool kid who is Catholic but he still comes to the mosque anyway (we still don't know exactly why).  Anyway, he said for a school project he was going to fast the month of Ramaddan.  He only made it a week.   I told him that the reason why this happened is because he was doing it for a school project.  I told him that next year he should do it for the sake of God only and that he would have greater success.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2006, 10:06:20 PM by Islamic Khalifah Sultan Abdul Hameed- 1908- »
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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2006, 11:41:42 PM »

What would be the point of that then ? God won't care if you do good stuff, lead a good life, please others, but if you dont directly associate with him then you're screwed? Seems very dumb


The point is that Muslims believe strongly in sincerity of intention.  Sincerity of intention is crucial in combating pride, selfishness, arrogance, vanity, and showboating.  Our religion should not be for show, or to be seen of men, but rather our religion should be an effort towards seeking the pleasure of the Most High.  The best way for Muslims to get all their good deeds accepted is to do them for the sake of Allah only. 

For example, many people do good deeds and spend so that others will think more highly of them, or because they are expecting something in return.  But Allah instructs Muslims in the Qu'ran that it is better to give charity in secret, then it is to give in the open.  A person giving in secret is expecting his reward from Allah and nobody else, what is truly important is to be pious in the eyes of Allah. 

One more example is fasting.  Fasting teaches Muslims Allah-consciousness.  Because when a Muslim fasts, technically they could sneak some food or water while nobody is watching; but a Muslim learns that even when nobody is around Allah is watching.  So they endure great physical and mental struggle for the pleasure of Allah only.  There was this young highschool kid who is Catholic but he still comes to the mosque anyway (we still don't know exactly why).  Anyway, he said for a school project he was going to fast the month of Ramaddan.  He only made it a week.   I told him that the reason why this happened is because he was doing it for a school project.  I told him that next year he should do it for the sake of God only and that he would have greater success.
But the bible has those two exact concepts also, fasting and giving in secret, whats the distinction between the two? Why is it bad to be christian or w/e and not muslim
 

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2006, 12:22:23 AM »

But the bible has those two exact concepts also, fasting and giving in secret, whats the distinction between the two? Why is it bad to be christian or w/e and not muslim


It's not bad, I didn't say it was.  The point is sincerity, and to prove ones sincerity they should not do an act for show or for selfish reasons.  A Christian will be compensated for that which they do in a sincere effort to please God.  God (Allah) says in the Qu'ran in verses 2:62 and 5:69 something to the effect of...

Surely those who believe,
those who are Jewish,
the Christians,
the converts;
anyone who
1) Believes in God, and
2) Believes in the hereafter, and
3) leads a righteous life,
will recieve their recompense from their Lord;
they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


« Last Edit: March 27, 2006, 12:24:21 AM by Islamic Khalifah Sultan Abdul Hameed- 1908- »
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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2006, 12:39:23 AM »
because the kid only did it for school, and not for god, and only last a week doesnt mean he is selfish, it means

he hasnt been fasting since birth and his body couldnt tolerate abuse of the body like you have obviously gotten used to
 

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2006, 01:59:52 AM »
because the kid only did it for school, and not for god, and only last a week doesnt mean he is selfish, it means

he hasnt been fasting since birth and his body couldnt tolerate abuse of the body like you have obviously gotten used to

no, I grew up the same way he did.  He's an 18 year old kid.  I was 18 when I converted to Islam.
*******

"I will make records as big or bigger than Death Row".   -Dre, Source 1996

"I didn't do nothing but make people money and I didn't leave nobody high and dry.  Any album (on death row) people are going to check for.  But it's time for Dre to worry about Dre.  I'm focused on the new Snoop Doggs, not like that but you know what I mean."

Dre -  Source 1996 cover

"Eminem will be bigger than Michael Jackson as long as he doesn't change."

-Dre, Rolling Stones mag 1999 Em cover

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Re: Question for the Moslems
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2006, 04:13:21 PM »
because the kid only did it for school, and not for god, and only last a week doesnt mean he is selfish, it means

he hasnt been fasting since birth and his body couldnt tolerate abuse of the body like you have obviously gotten used to

no, I grew up the same way he did.  He's an 18 year old kid.  I was 18 when I converted to Islam.

LOL, ok then, maybe he walked past KFC and gave in

but still its abuse of the body whichever way u look at it