Author Topic: do the muslims on this board...  (Read 1210 times)

coola

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do the muslims on this board...
« on: April 06, 2006, 10:12:07 PM »
deny that mohammed married a 9 year old girl at the age of 54 ?

i'm not trying to diss here, i just want to know if you are aware of this, or if it's true.
 

youngmessnucca

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2006, 10:19:47 PM »
if thats true then i dont even have a smartass remark to make, thats just wrong. how can you justify that?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 10:39:52 PM »
not to hate or anything but y dont u leave the muslims alone and def leave a subject like this to the TOT forum. it seems like ur obsessed with them as if u subconsciously want to become one. either that or ur just a hater that tries to find everything wrong bout there religion.
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 10:42:59 PM »
Siblings married and had children not too long ago either. Morals and society changes over time and that was acceptable.
 

coola

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 10:43:34 PM »
^ lol a 9 year old kid married to their prophet isnt a small thing...

could a mod move this to T.O.T ?

and is this taken from the quran ?

Sahih Bukhari 9.140
Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah's Apostle said to me, "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, 'Uncover (her),' and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), 'Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen.' "

 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 10:50:23 PM »
Of course it isn't a small thing, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, past civilizations and societies did things that are no longer acceptable today. People used to sacrifice their children, have sex with their mothers, etc. I don't agree with it, but at that time, it was an acceptable act and marrying young girls was one of those things.
 

coola

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2006, 10:50:32 PM »
Siblings married and had children not too long ago either. Morals and society changes over time and that was acceptable.

shouldnt morals be pure of religion ? i mean if its the word of Allah, these arent human morals were talking about here...
 

coola

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2006, 10:55:23 PM »
and mohammed met her when she was 6... they married when she was 9..
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2006, 11:00:49 PM »
Siblings married and had children not too long ago either. Morals and society changes over time and that was acceptable.

shouldnt morals be pure of religion ? i mean if its the word of Allah, these arent human morals were talking about here...

Of course. But what religion is truly pure? Nada. They're all established by human morals. That's how I see it.
 

coola

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2006, 11:16:57 PM »
Siblings married and had children not too long ago either. Morals and society changes over time and that was acceptable.

shouldnt morals be pure of religion ? i mean if its the word of Allah, these arent human morals were talking about here...

Of course. But what religion is truly pure? Nada. They're all established by human morals. That's how I see it.

yeah but the quran, just like the bible, are said to be the word of God, through Jesus, or word of Allah through Mohammed... so how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ? like yeah, the bible has alot of mythodology, but dont you have to accepts mythology to accept religion ? there is no scientific fact of the after-life, or anything for that matter...

and i'm not dissing, i'm just asking questions, if i dont ask these questions, how am i supposed to know ?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2006, 06:51:29 AM »
that quote was not from the Quran btw
that is a quote form a source, who is very questionable as half the things he says are pornographic and inaccurate
      
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2006, 07:44:43 AM »
It was also at this time that he was betrothed to Aisha, the daughter of Abu Bakr, who later became the first Caliph and whom Sunnis consider to have been Muhammad's closest friend. Most Muslims believe that she was only six years old at the time of the betrothal (a mutual promise to marry), based on oral traditions, or hadith reported by Bukhari. However, there are other traditions, including Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad, that would indicate she was older[1][2].

Muhammad married Aisha after the Hijra, when she may have been anywhere from nine to seventeen years old. The marriage to Aisha may have been politically motivated initially, in that Abu Bakr was one of Muhammad's strongest supporters, and the marriage strengthened the ties between them
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2006, 11:20:51 AM »
does it also say in the qu'ran that mohammed carried a bag of haribo in his pocket in case of emergencies? LOL
 

regimemob510

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2006, 11:37:13 AM »
Siblings married and had children not too long ago either. Morals and society changes over time and that was acceptable.

shouldnt morals be pure of religion ? i mean if its the word of Allah, these arent human morals were talking about here...

Of course. But what religion is truly pure? Nada. They're all established by human morals. That's how I see it.


Islam is truly pure.  Islam was created from the word of Allah, thru prophet muhammed, who was an illiterate man....  if you wanna understand Islam, you must understand the deites, Islam is the truest religion beginning to end, and that has been stated at prestigous universities such as stanford, harvard, berkeley etc....
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2006, 11:47:08 AM »
Islam is truly pure.  Islam was created from the word of Allah, thru prophet muhammed, who was an illiterate man....  if you wanna understand Islam, you must understand the deites, Islam is the truest religion beginning to end, and that has been stated at prestigous universities such as stanford, harvard, berkeley etc....


What the fuc are you talking about? Stated in Universities?? That's the lamest thing I've ever heard. She was 6 years old when he was kicking it alone with her for the 1st time to my understanding. I don't wanna get all into it, but it goes to show you a few things, tradition or not.

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2006, 02:28:31 PM »
yeah but the quran, just like the bible, are said to be the word of God, through Jesus, or word of Allah through Mohammed... so how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ? like yeah, the bible has alot of mythodology, but dont you have to accepts mythology to accept religion ? there is no scientific fact of the after-life, or anything for that matter...

and i'm not dissing, i'm just asking questions, if i dont ask these questions, how am i supposed to know ?

look, read your bible.  in the bible, moses sins and is punished by god and never reaches the land of canaan after he led the israelites out of egypt and after he received the ten commandments.  are you going to write off the ten commandments, judiasm and christianity because moses sinned later in life?  it's in the bible.

i am not prepared to call muhammad a sinner.  aisha?   it looks like that marriage was politically motivated.  the age of the woman has been debated.  the woman's father was the first caliph, so clearly noone in the community had a problem with the relationship, most importantly not her parents.
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2006, 02:55:08 PM »
yeah but the quran, just like the bible, are said to be the word of God, through Jesus, or word of Allah through Mohammed... so how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ? like yeah, the bible has alot of mythodology, but dont you have to accepts mythology to accept religion ? there is no scientific fact of the after-life, or anything for that matter...

and i'm not dissing, i'm just asking questions, if i dont ask these questions, how am i supposed to know ?

look, read your bible.  in the bible, moses sins and is punished by god and never reaches the land of canaan after he led the israelites out of egypt and after he received the ten commandments.  are you going to write off the ten commandments, judiasm and christianity because moses sinned later in life?  it's in the bible.

i am not prepared to call muhammad a sinner.  aisha?   it looks like that marriage was politically motivated.  the age of the woman has been debated.  the woman's father was the first caliph, so clearly noone in the community had a problem with the relationship, most importantly not her parents.

you can spurt out rubbish about pollitics

but after they got married, or maybe be before, he put his penis into a minor
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2006, 03:04:17 PM »
you can spurt out rubbish about pollitics

but after they got married, or maybe be before, he put his penis into a minor

the age has been debated.  the families did not oppose it.  i don't know the culture to know how out of place this was, i doubt the chick was 9 because apparently she had an arranged marriage before muhammad that had fallen through. 

i don't know how old this chick was.
she had another marriage arranged that had fallen through

i'm skeptical that she was 9 years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy

Quote
ccording to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).
Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her betrothal to Muhammad, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, p. 38.
Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, p. 50.
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, p. 377.
According to Abd ar Rahman ibn Abi Zannad, Aisha was 10 years younger than her sister Asma. (Siyar a“lām an-nubalā', adh-Dhahabī, Vol. 2, p. 289, Mu'assat ar-Risāla, Beirut, 1992). That is also confirmed by Ibn Kathir (al-Bidāya wa-n-nihāya, Ibn Kathīr, Bd. 8, S. 371, Dār al-Fikr al-“Arabī, al-Dschīza, 1933). Virtually all other historical reports also agree in this matter. Ibn Kathir also reports that Asma was present when her son died in 73 AH and she herself died 5 days thereafter (other reports differ slightly, giving between 5 and 100 days between the deaths of the two). At the time of her death she was 100 years old (al-Bidāya wa-n-nihāya, Ibn Kathīr, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dār al-Fikr al-“Arabī, al-Dschīza, 1933). This is also confirmed by Ibn Hadschar al-“Asqalānī who reports that she died in 73 or 74 AH at the age of 100 years. (Taqrīb at-tahdhīb, Ibn Hadschar al-“Asqalānī, p. 654, Bāb fi-n-nisā', harfu l-alif, Lucknow). But this means, of course, that Asma was 27 or 28 years old at 1 AH and the 10 years youger Aisha already 17 or 18, so when Muhammad and Aisha started to live together she was already 19 or 20.

they also mention the evidence that she was 9 so you can see both sides to the argument.  i don't know enough to say muhammad had relations with a 9 yr old.  her father was clearly comfortable with the relationship, so either the entire community accepted marriage of 7 year old girls, or she was older than 7.
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2006, 09:17:47 AM »
you can spurt out rubbish about pollitics

but after they got married, or maybe be before, he put his penis into a minor

the age has been debated.  the families did not oppose it.  i don't know the culture to know how out of place this was, i doubt the chick was 9 because apparently she had an arranged marriage before muhammad that had fallen through. 

i don't know how old this chick was.
she had another marriage arranged that had fallen through

i'm skeptical that she was 9 years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha#Young_marriage_age_controversy

Quote
ccording to Ibn Hisham's recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab. If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married (Al-Sirah al-Nabawiyyah, Ibn Hisham, Vol 1, Pg 227 - 234, Arabic, Maktabah al-Riyadh al-hadithah, Al-Riyadh).
Tabari reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her betrothal to Muhammad, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia. Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, p. 38.
Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, p. 50.
According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, p. 377.
According to Abd ar Rahman ibn Abi Zannad, Aisha was 10 years younger than her sister Asma. (Siyar a“lām an-nubalā', adh-Dhahabī, Vol. 2, p. 289, Mu'assat ar-Risāla, Beirut, 1992). That is also confirmed by Ibn Kathir (al-Bidāya wa-n-nihāya, Ibn Kathīr, Bd. 8, S. 371, Dār al-Fikr al-“Arabī, al-Dschīza, 1933). Virtually all other historical reports also agree in this matter. Ibn Kathir also reports that Asma was present when her son died in 73 AH and she herself died 5 days thereafter (other reports differ slightly, giving between 5 and 100 days between the deaths of the two). At the time of her death she was 100 years old (al-Bidāya wa-n-nihāya, Ibn Kathīr, Vol. 8, p. 372, Dār al-Fikr al-“Arabī, al-Dschīza, 1933). This is also confirmed by Ibn Hadschar al-“Asqalānī who reports that she died in 73 or 74 AH at the age of 100 years. (Taqrīb at-tahdhīb, Ibn Hadschar al-“Asqalānī, p. 654, Bāb fi-n-nisā', harfu l-alif, Lucknow). But this means, of course, that Asma was 27 or 28 years old at 1 AH and the 10 years youger Aisha already 17 or 18, so when Muhammad and Aisha started to live together she was already 19 or 20.

they also mention the evidence that she was 9 so you can see both sides to the argument.  i don't know enough to say muhammad had relations with a 9 yr old.  her father was clearly comfortable with the relationship, so either the entire community accepted marriage of 7 year old girls, or she was older than 7.


whether the father liked it or not, or whether she was 9 or 19, the guy was supposedly about what 35 years older than her?

hes a peado anyway u look at it
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2006, 09:40:50 AM »
whether the father liked it or not, or whether she was 9 or 19, the guy was supposedly about what 35 years older than her?

hes a peado anyway u look at it

you are simply looking for reasons to criticize the prophet.  19 is acceptable by any standard.  there are child kings and queens in the bible, it's often used to unite families, tribes and nations.   not only was this marriage politically motivated, aisha was almost without question of an acceptable age ~19.

why do you insists on critizing the prophet?

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2006, 10:03:22 AM »
cause he's ass is insecure
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2006, 10:11:23 AM »
deny that mohammed married a 9 year old girl at the age of 54 ?

i'm not trying to diss here, i just want to know if you are aware of this, or if it's true.

Once a girl has reached puberty her body is ready physically for a sexual relationship.  This country has a manmade law that you can't have sex with a woman until she is 18, but the law of nature says a woman is ready upon reaching puberty.  Muhammad (saws) did not consumate the marriage until after she had reached puberty. 

I also want to mention that Muhammad only had one wife Khadijah, from the time he was 25 till the time he was around 45.  Khadijah was much older than Muhammad was.  After Khadijah died that's when Muhammad married other women.
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2006, 10:53:53 AM »
deny that mohammed married a 9 year old girl at the age of 54 ?

i'm not trying to diss here, i just want to know if you are aware of this, or if it's true.

Once a girl has reached puberty her body is ready physically for a sexual relationship.  This country has a manmade law that you can't have sex with a woman until she is 18, but the law of nature says a woman is ready upon reaching puberty.  Muhammad (saws) did not consumate the marriage until after she had reached puberty. 

I also want to mention that Muhammad only had one wife Khadijah, from the time he was 25 till the time he was around 45.  Khadijah was much older than Muhammad was.  After Khadijah died that's when Muhammad married other women.


Just for the record; would you have a problem having sex with an 11 year old who just had her first period? (This isn't an insult or a rhetorical question. I just want to know what your personal feelings are).
 

coola

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2006, 11:45:50 AM »
^ hey if its accepted by society, just do it..

that quote was not from the Quran btw
that is a quote form a source, who is very questionable as half the things he says are pornographic and inaccurate

so what does the qu'ran state about aisha ?

It was also at this time that he was betrothed to Aisha, the daughter of Abu Bakr, who later became the first Caliph and whom Sunnis consider to have been Muhammad's closest friend. Most Muslims believe that she was only six years old at the time of the betrothal (a mutual promise to marry), based on oral traditions, or hadith reported by Bukhari. However, there are other traditions, including Ibn Ishaq's biography of Muhammad, that would indicate she was older[1][2].

Muhammad married Aisha after the Hijra, when she may have been anywhere from nine to seventeen years old. The marriage to Aisha may have been politically motivated initially, in that Abu Bakr was one of Muhammad's strongest supporters, and the marriage strengthened the ties between them


are you happy to follow a religion, where your prophet marries for political reasons ? Jesus died for his beliefs, i doubt he would do anything for political reasons... i believe in that is considered selling your soul.

Siblings married and had children not too long ago either. Morals and society changes over time and that was acceptable.

shouldnt morals be pure of religion ? i mean if its the word of Allah, these arent human morals were talking about here...

Of course. But what religion is truly pure? Nada. They're all established by human morals. That's how I see it.


Islam is truly pure.  Islam was created from the word of Allah, thru prophet muhammed, who was an illiterate man....  if you wanna understand Islam, you must understand the deites, Islam is the truest religion beginning to end, and that has been stated at prestigous universities such as stanford, harvard, berkeley etc....

ok, so whats his illileracy got to do with anything ? he didnt write the qu'ran anyway.

to understand islam, you cannot understand islam, the good muslims on this board dont follow islam, they follow their own good version of it, which is blind to the real islam.

yeah but the quran, just like the bible, are said to be the word of God, through Jesus, or word of Allah through Mohammed... so how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ? like yeah, the bible has alot of mythodology, but dont you have to accepts mythology to accept religion ? there is no scientific fact of the after-life, or anything for that matter...

and i'm not dissing, i'm just asking questions, if i dont ask these questions, how am i supposed to know ?

look, read your bible.  in the bible, moses sins and is punished by god and never reaches the land of canaan after he led the israelites out of egypt and after he received the ten commandments.  are you going to write off the ten commandments, judiasm and christianity because moses sinned later in life?  it's in the bible.

i am not prepared to call muhammad a sinner.  aisha?   it looks like that marriage was politically motivated.  the age of the woman has been debated.  the woman's father was the first caliph, so clearly noone in the community had a problem with the relationship, most importantly not her parents.

yeah, the bible also says no human is perfect... and moses didnt marry a child. and just because the community was happy with it, what kind of excuse is that ? what if the whole communtiy was full of sinners ? what if the parents had an alterior motive, and didnt give a fuck about a FE-MALE child.

whether the father liked it or not, or whether she was 9 or 19, the guy was supposedly about what 35 years older than her?

hes a peado anyway u look at it

you are simply looking for reasons to criticize the prophet.  19 is acceptable by any standard.  there are child kings and queens in the bible, it's often used to unite families, tribes and nations.   not only was this marriage politically motivated, aisha was almost without question of an acceptable age ~19.

why do you insists on critizing the prophet?



why do you blindly defend the prophet ?
deny that mohammed married a 9 year old girl at the age of 54 ?

i'm not trying to diss here, i just want to know if you are aware of this, or if it's true.

Once a girl has reached puberty her body is ready physically for a sexual relationship.  This country has a manmade law that you can't have sex with a woman until she is 18, but the law of nature says a woman is ready upon reaching puberty.  Muhammad (saws) did not consumate the marriage until after she had reached puberty. 

I also want to mention that Muhammad only had one wife Khadijah, from the time he was 25 till the time he was around 45.  Khadijah was much older than Muhammad was.  After Khadijah died that's when Muhammad married other women.

ohhh so he married OTHER WOMEN, not just one ? oh but she was dead, so thats cool...
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2006, 12:21:02 PM »
^ hey if its accepted by society, just do it..

it's pretty self-righteous for one to claim they know better than a community, and better than god's prophet as well.

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so what does the qu'ran state about aisha ?

the quran makes no direct reference to aisha.  it makes mention of the prophet's wives in a couple places, but never of aisha directly.  she is mentioned only in hadiths.

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are you happy to follow a religion, where your prophet marries for political reasons ? Jesus died for his beliefs, i doubt he would do anything for political reasons... i believe in that is considered selling your soul.

you deny half of your own bible in order to make your arguments.  you deny the religion of jesus and the scriptures jesus studied to make your arguments.  why is this?

what does the motivation for the marriage matter?  where is it ever suggested that the prophet mistreated any of his wives?

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to understand islam, you cannot understand islam, the good muslims on this board dont follow islam, they follow their own good version of it, which is blind to the real islam.

what muslim does not follow the qu''ran?  maybe they have additional sources (the hadiths) but it's all going to start with the qu'ran.  anyone with a complete understanding of the qu'ran can appreciate it's goodness and truth.  it's only those with a partial understanding of a handful of verses that deny this.

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how could someone accept a book which promotes pedophilia ?

atleast read the quran before you criticize it.  this issue of aisha's age does not appear in the quran, but in a hadith attributed to her.  and her age has been questioned in that source.

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yeah, the bible also says no human is perfect... and moses didnt marry a child.

moses killed a man.

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what if the parents had an alterior motive, and didnt give a fuck about a FE-MALE child.

to my knowledge it's never been suggested anywhere that aisha was unhappy or mistreated, and many hadiths are attributed to aisha and accepted as her own words.

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why do you blindly defend the prophet ?

this is a non-issue.  the quran never claims the prophet muhammad was perfect, there is even a verse that states god has forgiven him his past sins and will forgive him his future sins as well, thus acknowledging that he is not perfect.  i don't know that aisha was 19.  it's a non-issue.  only your stubbornness denies the fact that we don't actually know her age.

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ohhh so he married OTHER WOMEN, not just one ? oh but she was dead, so thats cool...

there's nothing wrong with a man having multiple wives.  abraham had multiple wives, or children from multiple women, and his wife sarah sent the mother of ismael (who was a wife or servant, i'd need to look it up) away iirc.  sent the woman away.  that's far more eggregious than this non-issue.
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