Author Topic: do the muslims on this board...  (Read 1197 times)

Shallow

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2006, 03:15:59 PM »
you deny half of your own bible in order to make your arguments.  you deny the religion of jesus and the scriptures jesus studied to make your arguments.  why is this?


I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just want to share my beliefs regarding the Old Testament. I think Jesus made it very clear that much of the Old Testement can't be trusted since it filled with the ideas of man added to the ideas of God. He points out Moses a couple of times and corrects him and for this I only look to the Gospels as anything I would defend. Everything else is fair game as I feel it is filled with errors. I realize that someone could say they feel the Gospels have errors, but I am just specifying my personal beliefs stemmed from the fact that I haven't found anything in the Gospels I feel is remotely wrong. Not yet anyway.
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2006, 05:31:29 PM »
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just want to share my beliefs regarding the Old Testament. I think Jesus made it very clear that much of the Old Testement can't be trusted since it filled with the ideas of man added to the ideas of God. He points out Moses a couple of times and corrects him and for this I only look to the Gospels as anything I would defend.

this is exactly why the holy qu'ran is so important.  it provides greater clarity and understanding of the old testament, as well as clarifying misconceptions about the nature of christ.

the old testament supposedly represents a history of sorts.  people wondered if the purpose of the religion was simply strict observance of the ten commandments and the laws of abraham.  god is portrayed as a finicky and whimsical individual.   the message largely has to be interpretted from this history. 

your new testament has a series of verses about how everything is created with a specific purpose.  a potter can make one clay vessel to honor and another to dishonor.

the holy qu'ran pulls all of this together.   you mention the question of moses and his character, moses had a specific purpose.  to lead the israelites out of egypt and deliver the ten commandments.  the fact that he sins along the way (killing a man, disobeying god) is irrelevant.   he was a messenger of god, delivered a warning to pharoah, served his purpose.

similarly, the prophet muhammad's purpose is clear.   he brings good news and a warning for the disbelievers.  he clarifies the message, purpose and laws.  he clarifies the purpose and meaning of islam.  he delivers the quran.  that is the prophet's purpose, which he satisfied.  the quran itself mentions that muhammad will commit future sins and accordingly be forgiven.  thus muhammad is not perfect.  he doesn't need to be perfect as his purpose was clear.
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2006, 08:06:37 PM »
deny that mohammed married a 9 year old girl at the age of 54 ?

i'm not trying to diss here, i just want to know if you are aware of this, or if it's true.

lol so every religion has its faults. whats the point here? yea he married a little girl and that was his choice right? at least he got to practice his 'freedom'. why do u keep posting all this irrelevent shit. u sound like a little bitch who is ignorant. just by reading all of your posts i know u are a dumbass. how would u konw what life was like 1400 years ago?? stop asking dumb ass questions dude. just let it be. 1 billion ppl follow it. just like the millions or billions of ppl who believe in jesus and who beleive in hinduism.

some things arent ment for u to understand so stop making comments i think uve already made a fucking jackass out of yourself.
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2006, 09:12:47 PM »
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just want to share my beliefs regarding the Old Testament. I think Jesus made it very clear that much of the Old Testement can't be trusted since it filled with the ideas of man added to the ideas of God. He points out Moses a couple of times and corrects him and for this I only look to the Gospels as anything I would defend.

this is exactly why the holy qu'ran is so important.  it provides greater clarity and understanding of the old testament, as well as clarifying misconceptions about the nature of christ.

the old testament supposedly represents a history of sorts.  people wondered if the purpose of the religion was simply strict observance of the ten commandments and the laws of abraham.  god is portrayed as a finicky and whimsical individual.   the message largely has to be interpretted from this history. 

your new testament has a series of verses about how everything is created with a specific purpose.  a potter can make one clay vessel to honor and another to dishonor.

the holy qu'ran pulls all of this together.   you mention the question of moses and his character, moses had a specific purpose.  to lead the israelites out of egypt and deliver the ten commandments.  the fact that he sins along the way (killing a man, disobeying god) is irrelevant.   he was a messenger of god, delivered a warning to pharoah, served his purpose.

similarly, the prophet muhammad's purpose is clear.   he brings good news and a warning for the disbelievers.  he clarifies the message, purpose and laws.  he clarifies the purpose and meaning of islam.  he delivers the quran.  that is the prophet's purpose, which he satisfied.  the quran itself mentions that muhammad will commit future sins and accordingly be forgiven.  thus muhammad is not perfect.  he doesn't need to be perfect as his purpose was clear.


For you the Quran is the clarity. For me it is the Gospel. I have personal issues with some things in the Quran as you do with some things mentioned in the Bible. It's not even so much that I disagree with the Quran but that I don't disagree with anything in the Gospel. In the end we both follow the same basic message on how to live your life and neither believe the other will be punished for practicing the way we do, so long as we are righteous, or at least strive to be.
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2006, 09:29:31 PM »
In the end we both follow the same basic message on how to live your life and neither believe the other will be punished for practicing the way we do, so long as we are righteous, or at least strive to be.

real talk
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2006, 10:35:08 PM »
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just want to share my beliefs regarding the Old Testament. I think Jesus made it very clear that much of the Old Testement can't be trusted since it filled with the ideas of man added to the ideas of God. He points out Moses a couple of times and corrects him and for this I only look to the Gospels as anything I would defend.

this is exactly why the holy qu'ran is so important.  it provides greater clarity and understanding of the old testament, as well as clarifying misconceptions about the nature of christ.


what does the qu'ran state about the nature of christ ?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2006, 01:51:48 AM »
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just want to share my beliefs regarding the Old Testament. I think Jesus made it very clear that much of the Old Testement can't be trusted since it filled with the ideas of man added to the ideas of God. He points out Moses a couple of times and corrects him and for this I only look to the Gospels as anything I would defend.

this is exactly why the holy qu'ran is so important.  it provides greater clarity and understanding of the old testament, as well as clarifying misconceptions about the nature of christ.


what does the qu'ran state about the nature of christ ?

that he isn't God, nor the son of God... he's just like all the other prophets (Moses, Mohammed, Abraham, etc.), a messenger
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2006, 02:02:49 AM »
^ so by 'the christ', youre reffering to Jesus ? Jesus' name isn't christ, if you look up what christ means, you will find that it's a title...

when i was asking what does the qu'ran say about the nature of the christ, i'm not talking about what the qu'ran says about Jesus.
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2006, 02:18:57 AM »
^ so by 'the christ', youre reffering to Jesus ? Jesus' name isn't christ, if you look up what christ means, you will find that it's a title...

when i was asking what does the qu'ran say about the nature of the christ, i'm not talking about what the qu'ran says about Jesus.

Yeah, I'm referring to Jesus... I don't know if nibs was or not.
Christ literally means the Annointed One... however to those who accept Jesus as "the Christ", the term can be used synonymously with Jesus... the term actually has different "meanings" to different people... I was simply referring to Jesus.


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LOL @ this fudgepacker
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2006, 02:26:52 AM »
well does the qu'ran mention anything about the Christ ?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2006, 08:36:50 AM »
well does the qu'ran mention anything about the Christ ?

i didn't read this discourse closely enough. 

some translations refer to jesus directly as the christ, which as jamal pointed out means "annointed one".  others refer to jesus as the messiah as well.

i don't read arabic, so i can't say exactly what the qu'ran states as the translations differ over their usage of "christ", i also don't know what the connotations of christ or messiah have in arabic.

here is some of what the qu'ran says about jesus.

the qu'ran mentions jesus frequently.  it supports the notion of the virgin birth, it basically says that jesus is devine and that jesus' soul was was of a divine nature.  it mentions that jesus could speak as an infant.

sura 21:91 (sher ali)
And remember her who guarded her chastity, so WE breathed into her of Our Word and WE made her and her son a Sign for all peoples.

alternate translation (yusef ali):
sura 21:91
And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.


there is a mention of the divine nature of jesus' soul.

sura 3:42-45 (sher ali)
When the angels said, `O Mary, ALLAH gives thee glad tidings of a son through a word from HIM; his name shall be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who are granted nearness to God;
`And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of the righteous.
She said, `My Lord, how shall I have a son, when no man has touch me ? He said, `Such is the way of ALLAH. HE creates what HE pleases. When HE decrees a thing HE says to it `Be,' and it is;
And HE will teach him the Book and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;
And will send him as a Messenger to the Children of Israel with the Message, `I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird; then I will breath into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of ALLAH; and I will heal the night blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead by the command of ALLAH; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you, if you are believers.


here the qu'ran is supporting the virgin conception/birth and jesus miracles.

sura 19:22-30 (sher ali)
So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.
And the pains of child-birth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, `O, would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten !
Then the angel called her from beneath her, saying, `Grieve not. Thy Lord has placed a rivulet below thee;
`And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will drop upon thee fresh ripe dates;
`So, eat and drink and cool thine eye. And if thou seest any man, say, `I have vowed a fast to the Gracious God; I will, therefore, not speak this day to any human being.'
Then she brought him to her people, mounted. They said, `O Mary, surely, thou hast committed a monstrous thing !
`O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother an unchaste woman !'
Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, `How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle ?'
Jesus said, `I am a servant of ALLAH. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet;
`And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;
`And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless;
`And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.'
That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt.


there is jesus as an infant talking. 

the only area where the qu'ran disagrees with the popular thinking of christianity is in the notion that christ was equal to god, and that christ should be worshipped directly.

sura 4:171-172 (sher ali)
O People of the Book ! exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of ALLAH anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of ALLAH, and a fulfillment of HIS word which HE has sent down to Mary, and a mercy from HIM. So believe in ALLAH and HIS Messengers, and say not, `They are three.' Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, ALLAH is the only One God. Holy is HE, far above having a son. To HIM belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is ALLAH as a guardian.
Surely, the Messiah disdains not to be a servant of ALLAH, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoso disdains to worship HIM and is proud, HE will gather them all to Himself.


the qu'ran makes it clear that no prophet should be worshipped; and jesus was a prophet and a man. however, the nature of christ in the qu'ran is completely incomparable to any other human other than possibly adam (and also john the baptist) (as adam, eve and john were also created through direct divine action; and not simple procreation).

« Last Edit: April 09, 2006, 08:44:13 AM by nibs »
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2006, 08:50:08 AM »
^ but if even the qu'ran speaks so highly of Jesus, why is it Mohammed is held in such high regard ? you said Jesus' soul was of divine nature ? it even backed up the fact that Jesus performed miracles... so why ? Mohammed in Islam has more respect than Jesus doesnt he ?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2006, 09:08:42 AM »
^ but if even the qu'ran speaks so highly of Jesus, why is it Mohammed is held in such high regard ? you said Jesus' soul was of divine nature ? it even backed up the fact that Jesus performed miracles... so why ? Mohammed in Islam has more respect than Jesus doesnt he ?

muhammad really doesn't get more respect than jesus.  they are typically afforded the same level of reverence: both are identified as prophets; both are revered with the "peace be upon him" epithet.

the real difference is that  as the qu'ran was delivered to muhammad, and it is the qu'ran and the hadiths which form the basis of islamic law; it appears that muhammad recieves a greater emphasis.  muhammad's purpose was to deliver the qu'ran which clarifies and supercedes some of the misconceptions that people had about judiasm and jesus.  similar to how jesus clarified older mosaic law, muhammad clarifies newer misconceptions that had arisen.

the reality is that islam is about neither jesus or muhammad but about god; so there isn't any great need to try to compare the prophets or place anyone above the others.  all the prophets and messengers of god have had specific purposes that they satisfied.
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2006, 09:28:35 AM »
^ i see.. well why is it there is so much trust put into Mohammed ?

sorry to say this, but islam is just confusing to me..
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2006, 09:29:40 AM »
^ but if even the qu'ran speaks so highly of Jesus, why is it Mohammed is held in such high regard ? you said Jesus' soul was of divine nature ? it even backed up the fact that Jesus performed miracles... so why ? Mohammed in Islam has more respect than Jesus doesnt he ?

muhammad really doesn't get more respect than jesus.  they are typically afforded the same level of reverence: both are identified as prophets; both are revered with the "peace be upon him" epithet.

the real difference is that  as the qu'ran was delivered to muhammad, and it is the qu'ran and the hadiths which form the basis of islamic law; it appears that muhammad recieves a greater emphasis.  muhammad's purpose was to deliver the qu'ran which clarifies and supercedes some of the misconceptions that people had about judiasm and jesus.  similar to how jesus clarified older mosaic law, muhammad clarifies newer misconceptions that had arisen.

the reality is that islam is about neither jesus or muhammad but about god; so there isn't any great need to try to compare the prophets or place anyone above the others.  all the prophets and messengers of god have had specific purposes that they satisfied.


If a new prophet were to emerge and have his mission be to clarify the misconceptions of the Quran (something like Muhammad's direct followers changed the Quran to suit there needs), how would you view him?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2006, 10:36:40 AM »
in arabic he is neither called jesus or christ.he is called aisa and al masseh
United Arab States
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2006, 10:42:48 AM »
so back to the original topic of a guy 35 years older than the girl he is having sex with

if a 54 year old man was interested in my 19 year old daughter, id ask him what the fuck he is playing at

nibs & infinite how would u feel if a 54 year man wanted to marry your 9-19 year old daughter?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2006, 10:43:06 AM »
If a new prophet were to emerge and have his mission be to clarify the misconceptions of the Quran (something like Muhammad's direct followers changed the Quran to suit there needs), how would you view him?

rashad khalifah made that claim (and was assassinated for it).  his translation of the qu'ran is very easy to read; however i'm skeptical of his claims and some of his changes.  khalifah actually claimed to be a messenger as the qu'ran states muhammad was the last prophet.  khalifah didn't like the hadiths and his translation of some verses is slightly different.

i personally would evaluate any new information in the same manner in which i evaluated the qu'ran.

it's hard for me to foresee misconceptions about the qu'ran as the qu'ran has been unaltered; and it is something that i have studied on my own.  in contrast i have doubts as to how the bible was recorded and how the catholic church assembled the new testament specifically.  how the teachings about christ have been presented.  i have no doubts about the nature of the qu'ran.

the qu'ran covers the basics of what a person needs to know.  the qu'ran is the basis of what any faith should have.  while i could see other materials augmenting what the qu'ran says, i find it hard to foresee a need to replace anything that is said in the qu'ran.

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2006, 10:47:14 AM »
so back to the original topic of a guy 35 years older than the girl he is having sex with

if a 54 year old man was interested in my 19 year old daughter, id ask him what the fuck he is playing at

nibs & infinite how would u feel if a 54 year man wanted to marry your 9-19 year old daughter?

i'd ask my daughter why she was interested in a 54 year old man.

19/20 will always be hot to me.  the only issue i've ever had with "19" is that it's under the drinking age, and it's always a little weird when you are ordering drinks and the girl is like "i forgot my id ;)"
but hey, they typically let women by without much hassle.

i'm not really a drinker anymore, so that doesn't matter.

19 is old enough. 
« Last Edit: April 09, 2006, 10:51:17 AM by nibs »
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2006, 10:51:26 AM »
its not the age of the girl thats the problem

its the 54 year old thats fucked up in the head and should be interested in women his own age
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2006, 11:02:05 AM »
its not the age of the girl thats the problem

its the 54 year old thats fucked up in the head and should be interested in women his own age

other than angela bassett (48?) there aren't many women of that age that do anything for me.  a very superficial thing to say, sure.  it's hard for me to think that at 54 i would stop appreciating that type of nubile beauty.   19 isn't a little kid.  in terms of maturity and emotionally, maybe theres a disparity.  but if they can make the relationship work i don't see the problem.  it seems that the marriage worked for 8-10 years for them.

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2006, 11:07:05 AM »
i give up, if you dont see anything wrong in it then you need to have your head checked out
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2006, 11:20:47 AM »
If a new prophet were to emerge and have his mission be to clarify the misconceptions of the Quran (something like Muhammad's direct followers changed the Quran to suit there needs), how would you view him?

God tells us in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the last prophet. There have actually been a number of people who claimed to be prophets with new messages (ex: Bahaullah --- Baha'i faith), but "Muslims" didn't accept them because they were already told "by God" that Muhammad was the seal of the prophets.
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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2006, 11:58:42 AM »
If a new prophet were to emerge and have his mission be to clarify the misconceptions of the Quran (something like Muhammad's direct followers changed the Quran to suit there needs), how would you view him?

God tells us in the Qur'an that Muhammad is the last prophet. There have actually been a number of people who claimed to be prophets with new messages (ex: Bahaullah --- Baha'i faith), but "Muslims" didn't accept them because they were already told "by God" that Muhammad was the seal of the prophets.

what if he could walk on water n stuff?
 

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Re: do the muslims on this board...
« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2006, 12:05:14 PM »
We are told that the anti-Christ will be able to perform unbelievable acts, miracles, etc... and that's how he'll gain his followers.... one of the signs of the day of judgment.
my throat hurts, its hard to swallow, and my body feels like i got a serious ass beating.

LOL @ this fudgepacker