Author Topic: Curious......Whats so great bout ron paul???  (Read 841 times)

Shallow

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Re: Curious......Whats so great bout ron paul???
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2007, 06:30:07 AM »
A free market would be absolutely perfect. It would just be better in the end than it is now. Now if we're going into conspiracies of all the rich businessmen banding together then it won't be any different than it is now, except I won't have to pay stupid taxes. This idea that people have about society going to moral hell with out some socialist force keeping the evil businessmen honest just doesn't fly with me. I don't think the the top capitalists are great people therefore they won't screw people over. I think they'll want to treat consumers better than the other guy so we buy from them instead.

Believe me son, have you ever been overseas to a third world country? If you havent then you have never been to a REAL capitalist country. I recently been to the Philippines (among other places) and let me tell you that country is more purely capitalist than the USA or any European country. If you dont have money, you simply starve and die slowly wallowing in poverty. And poverty is only a word son, it dosnt describe the living pain, its something you have to experience for yourself. Sure the banks offer loans, but who can afford the interest and more importantly, the market is already full, forget about making a return. The fact is the Philippines has tourism and alot of exports, its potential markets have pretty much been fulfilled to their potential already, there is not much more prospect of growth, needless to say, people there live day to day, off less than 1 Australian dollar a day. The market has been fulfilled to its potential, there are heaps of locally owned business, but the fact is the market economy cant support everybody. So what happens to the remaining people not covered by the market? Well the slums are absolutely HUGE, im talking City of God here, they go on for horizon after horizon, children being raised in garbage tips, while we sit behind our LCD computer screens, praising the free market's name like it was a gold calf. The fact is when there is not a dollar to be made, businesses wont give a shit about people or the Earth. However, the government is supposed to, this is where government needs to differentiate between the people and business interests, the high wall of separation, I talked about. You cant tell me, 'an absolute free market would be perfect'. Such a thing dosnt exist, only theoretically. You say it would be better in the end than it is now, well bear in mind, between then and now, millions of human beings (not to mention the Earth, hoepfull only to certain extent) will slowly die in the process between then and now. Capitalism is morally corrupt. You cant deny it. But it is the only system the world has. So ill just go back to looking at high resolution pictures on my LCD screen while drinking my coke and icrecream. Socialism once may have been an alternative system, that time has gone, so the negative impact of capitalism on human lives is a fact that is supposed to be accepted. However, the impact on the environment is the new challenge to capitalism, because like the human element, it is not something that capitalism is geared to address. Despite what neo-liberals try to assure us, the free market will not handle the environmental challenge byitself as has been shown by its failure to address poverty. Therefore it is once again up to the socialist tradtion to regulate, although it is no longer called socialism, but follows in it's tradition.








First off, it was a typo. It read "A free market would be absolutely perfect. It would just be better in the end than it is now.", when it should have read "A free market wouldn't be absolutely perfect. It would just be better in the end than it is now.". I think the phrasing of the second sentence shows you that I am not just saying that to backtrack.

I don't know the Phillipines, or what it was like before it was free, but I never meant to imply that a free market would work in the 3rd world. My personal feelings have always been that you need to start from a dictatorship run by a nations most intelligent that has a very closed market to keep out more advanced competitors until your homegrown business are fit to compete, and a sense of rules and laws are imbedded in the psyche of the people. From their you branch off to a republic of representative government where you give the people more of a choice and allow other companies to come in from abroad while using taxes on them to keep them from getting too strong right away, and getting more lenient with many laws put in place in the past. After that the ultimate goal is a real democracy that is referendum based in nature and listens to the people rather than chooses people to make decisions for the people, and a completely free market open to all those wanting to come in and give it a shot. Of course there would be laws against crime that threaten the freedom of other citizens. It's not that I think a free market can work anywhere right now. It's that I think the people of Canada, and the US are ready to start the transition. They key to the success of a fre market is education. The masses need to be smart enough. We aren't ready to jump in head first but it's time to stick out foot in the water and test it out.
 

AndrE16686

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Re: Curious......Whats so great bout ron paul???
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2007, 06:28:27 PM »
A free market would be absolutely perfect. It would just be better in the end than it is now. Now if we're going into conspiracies of all the rich businessmen banding together then it won't be any different than it is now, except I won't have to pay stupid taxes. This idea that people have about society going to moral hell with out some socialist force keeping the evil businessmen honest just doesn't fly with me. I don't think the the top capitalists are great people therefore they won't screw people over. I think they'll want to treat consumers better than the other guy so we buy from them instead.

Believe me son, have you ever been overseas to a third world country? If you havent then you have never been to a REAL capitalist country. I recently been to the Philippines (among other places) and let me tell you that country is more purely capitalist than the USA or any European country. If you dont have money, you simply starve and die slowly wallowing in poverty. And poverty is only a word son, it dosnt describe the living pain, its something you have to experience for yourself. Sure the banks offer loans, but who can afford the interest and more importantly, the market is already full, forget about making a return. The fact is the Philippines has tourism and alot of exports, its potential markets have pretty much been fulfilled to their potential already, there is not much more prospect of growth, needless to say, people there live day to day, off less than 1 Australian dollar a day. The market has been fulfilled to its potential, there are heaps of locally owned business, but the fact is the market economy cant support everybody. So what happens to the remaining people not covered by the market? Well the slums are absolutely HUGE, im talking City of God here, they go on for horizon after horizon, children being raised in garbage tips, while we sit behind our LCD computer screens, praising the free market's name like it was a gold calf. The fact is when there is not a dollar to be made, businesses wont give a shit about people or the Earth. However, the government is supposed to, this is where government needs to differentiate between the people and business interests, the high wall of separation, I talked about. You cant tell me, 'an absolute free market would be perfect'. Such a thing dosnt exist, only theoretically. You say it would be better in the end than it is now, well bear in mind, between then and now, millions of human beings (not to mention the Earth, hoepfull only to certain extent) will slowly die in the process between then and now. Capitalism is morally corrupt. You cant deny it. But it is the only system the world has. So ill just go back to looking at high resolution pictures on my LCD screen while drinking my coke and icrecream. Socialism once may have been an alternative system, that time has gone, so the negative impact of capitalism on human lives is a fact that is supposed to be accepted. However, the impact on the environment is the new challenge to capitalism, because like the human element, it is not something that capitalism is geared to address. Despite what neo-liberals try to assure us, the free market will not handle the environmental challenge byitself as has been shown by its failure to address poverty. Therefore it is once again up to the socialist tradtion to regulate, although it is no longer called socialism, but follows in it's tradition.








First off, it was a typo. It read "A free market would be absolutely perfect. It would just be better in the end than it is now.", when it should have read "A free market wouldn't be absolutely perfect. It would just be better in the end than it is now.". I think the phrasing of the second sentence shows you that I am not just saying that to backtrack.

I don't know the Phillipines, or what it was like before it was free, but I never meant to imply that a free market would work in the 3rd world. My personal feelings have always been that you need to start from a dictatorship run by a nations most intelligent that has a very closed market to keep out more advanced competitors until your homegrown business are fit to compete, and a sense of rules and laws are imbedded in the psyche of the people. From their you branch off to a republic of representative government where you give the people more of a choice and allow other companies to come in from abroad while using taxes on them to keep them from getting too strong right away, and getting more lenient with many laws put in place in the past. After that the ultimate goal is a real democracy that is referendum based in nature and listens to the people rather than chooses people to make decisions for the people, and a completely free market open to all those wanting to come in and give it a shot. Of course there would be laws against crime that threaten the freedom of other citizens. It's not that I think a free market can work anywhere right now. It's that I think the people of Canada, and the US are ready to start the transition. They key to the success of a fre market is education. The masses need to be smart enough. We aren't ready to jump in head first but it's time to stick out foot in the water and test it out.


Word. Ok then. Good ideas. good ideas.